[03:31] <mhall119> another nice video for people who havne't seen it: http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/02/ubuntu-for-smartphones/
[03:52] <IdleOne> it does look very impresive
[03:52] <IdleOne> impressive*
[03:52] <IdleOne> I want one.
[07:02] <benkaiser> anyone know if we will be able to flash Ubuntu phone os though clockworkmod recovery just like cyanogenmod? and will there be a place to download builds for individual phones (once again like cyanogenmod)?
[08:46] <benkaiser> anyone know if we will be able to flash Ubuntu phone os though clockworkmod recovery just like cyanogenmod? and will there be a place to download builds for individual phones (once again like cyanogenmod)?
[10:45] <Tak> are there any docs yet on developing native apps for ubuntu phone?
[10:45] <popey> hi Tak
[10:46] <popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ is the entry point
[10:47] <Tak> yeah, but all I see is qml
[10:48] <popey> yeah, we're working on beefing up the docs, anything in particular you're looking for?
[10:48] <Tak> more of a c-style bootstrap guide
[10:52] <Tak> or rather, I hope you're not going to make the same mistake that ios and android both made initially by trying to prevent app developers from writing real native apps?
[10:52] <popey> (and WebOS) ☺
[10:57] <popey> Tak: I'd poke mhall119 when he wakes shortly.
[10:57] <Tak> cool, no urgency
[10:57] <Tak> I just want to get hacking :-)
[10:58] <popey> ☺
[10:58] <popey> I'd certainly love to see everyones favorite 3D game engine ported over ;)
[10:58] <Tak> pff, didn't you see ski safari in the keynote? ;-P
[10:59] <popey> heh
[11:04] <benkaiser_> popey, do you know if their will be more than just the galaxy nexus images released? like say would the note / note 2, s3 and gnex4 be getting it?
[11:04] <popey> I'd wait and see, I don't expect there to be a load of images. we have enough to do to get one image done
[11:05]  * Tak look sadly at nexus4
[11:05] <Tak> otoh, how difficult will it be to create community images?
[11:05] <popey> we've moved from one dev/reference phone to another at least once or twice
[11:06] <popey> yeah, I wonder if once one image is out, whether people will do the same as happened with xda developers and start hacking other images
[11:09] <AlanBell> so a nexus 4 is a different thing to the nexus?
[11:09] <popey> yes
[11:09] <popey> galaxy nexus != nexus 4
[11:10] <AlanBell> and a nexus 3 is just the BBC being confused?
[11:10] <popey> one is a samsung product, one is LG
[11:10] <popey> yes
[11:10] <benkaiser_> I don't care if its just one other phone.... I just want it to be a very high spec'd phone (such as the note 2, s3, nexus4) so that I could buy one of them and install it on it...  because the galaxy nexus is only dual core, and I would really like a quad core phone running the ubuntu phone os
[11:11] <AlanBell> google are making a lot of confusion branding different manufacturer products as the same product name
[11:12] <jrtappers> Nexus = pure android
[11:12] <jrtappers> the first phone of every android version
[11:13] <AlanBell> yeah, I understand they are the good ones
[11:13] <benkaiser_> yeh, no crappy carrier or OEM roms (like touchwiz *shudders*)
[11:13] <k1l> popey: can you name the dev-phones involved before?
[11:14] <k1l> and i would bet on xda guys making some more images available. they ported ubuntu to several other smartphones and  tablets so far
[11:15] <benkaiser_> k1l: was the Transformer 1 or Note 1 among these?
[11:18] <k1l> benkaiser_: that werent official ports and the hardest part is to get the drivers. i dont know which devices all got working native ubuntu (desktop mode) ports. but i know about the hp touchpad, since i had ubuntu running there :)
[11:19] <benkaiser_> hmmmm.... ubuntu on my tf101 would be amazing.... would make it have a use again.... thanks k1l
[11:20] <k1l> benkaiser_: take a look into the device section on xda. maybe someone gives it a try. but be aware that on most devices the biggest problem are the drivers
[11:22] <benkaiser_> k1l: found one http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1852702
[11:23] <LudwigVonMises> I am excited.
[11:24] <LudwigVonMises> First thing we need is a good flashlight app!
[11:24] <LudwigVonMises> anyways, is ubuntu phone running on a java stack, or is it more native?
[11:25] <popey> native
[11:25] <jrtappers> We need a good dialer
[11:25] <LudwigVonMises> Yes! hell yes to native!
[11:25] <LudwigVonMises> I hate java with every bone in my body
[11:26] <k1l> will they use the regular software center?
[11:27] <benkaiser_> k1l: I think that was in one of the discussions I read, they said they havn't got up to that yet, but it should just be one place for everything... so they will just change the software centre (from my understanding)
[11:30] <LudwigVonMises> I wonder if google docs will work nicely with ubuntu phone... and ubuntu one...
[11:31] <LudwigVonMises> open office*
[11:31] <LudwigVonMises> thats what I meant
[11:32] <Tak> I guess ubuntu one is a must-work
[11:32] <LudwigVonMises> yah
[11:32] <benkaiser_> LudwikVonMises: I wonder the same thing.... but Ubuntu doesn't have a native Google Drive client (you have to use Insync)... so I wouldn't keep my hopes up...
[11:33] <LudwigVonMises> that is for sure
[11:33] <LudwigVonMises> benkaiser_: That was a typo
[11:33] <LudwigVonMises> benkaiser_: I recall open office saying that they were working on online docs
[11:33] <LudwigVonMises> libreoffice*
[11:33] <Walther> mind you, open != libr- yeah, that
[11:33] <LudwigVonMises> if I could get that synced in ubuntu one
[11:34] <LudwigVonMises> then that would be neat
[11:34] <Walther> I would still prefer the thin-client idea of a phone-computer
[11:34] <Walther> no need to sync, all important data on same device
[11:34] <Walther> more security
[11:35] <LudwigVonMises> Walther: right, so everything is on your phone
[11:35] <Walther> of course, it would still be a nice bit better if it were possible to connect it to extra hardware while still booting/using the same os :P
[11:35] <LudwigVonMises> and you bring it to a computer, and it syncs?
[11:35] <Walther> LudwigVonMises: No, the computer *is* the phone
[11:35] <LudwigVonMises> lol!
[11:35] <Walther> just dock it to a monitor,kb,mouse
[11:35] <Walther> that's the idea Ubuntu Phone has on its high-end model
[11:35] <LudwigVonMises> oh yah, that too
[11:36] <LudwigVonMises> oh my, so much to do
[11:38] <k1l> ubuntu offers alot of services that google has too. so ubuntu music and ubuntu1 fit good into ubuntu-phone, imho, but google offers alot of features and ubuntu has to try hard for not everyone demanding the google services
[11:38] <Walther> there are other competitors as well
[11:39] <LudwigVonMises> no
[11:39] <LudwigVonMises> apple died with jobs
[11:39] <LudwigVonMises> they are like sony now
[11:39] <Walther> in my opinion, the most important thing for Ubuntu phone's success is not the availability of Google services or Ubuntu services, but the *diversity* of available services, and compatibility with as many of 'em as possible
[11:39] <LudwigVonMises> and microsoft does not have the youth and developer support or fandom
[11:40] <Walther> It's not only Google and Apple. There's Netflix, Amazon, Spotify ...
[11:40] <Walther> etc
[11:40] <LudwigVonMises> Walther: the linux approach to flexibility?
[11:40] <Walther> That.
[11:40] <LudwigVonMises> Frankly I liked the fact that ubuntu didnt have many games
[11:41] <Walther> "do what you want 'cause a linuxist is free, and ubuntu is a linux", lol
[11:41] <LudwigVonMises> i really hate being distracted, and I am allot more productive on linux as a result
[11:41] <Walther> LudwigVonMises: http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.fi/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html
[11:41] <benkaiser_> k1l: The one thing keeping me tied to Google Drive is what I primarily use it for, Google Docs... which has amazing features through the collaboration side of it...
[11:42] <LudwigVonMises> benkaiser_: Im using google spreadsheets as a database :P
[11:43] <benkaiser_> Walther: I have to agree.. on android having those core accounts that make all my apps login automatically (all the google ones at least) is perfect. And ubuntu 12.10 is right on the way there with the online accounts settings
[11:43] <LudwigVonMises> if ubuntu could get a cloud database, that would be a killer app
[11:44] <Walther> benkaiser_: yeah, and especially in the tech-savvy userbase, there are people like me who have not went to only one company's bandwagon
[11:44] <benkaiser_> LudwigVonMises: Why? you can't integrate it with a webpage (can you?)
[11:44] <Walther> as in, use only services and products of one company
[11:44] <Walther> (google docs, drive, mail, etc)
[11:44] <Walther> I use ubuntu one for cloud, multiple mails, google calendar, spotify for music, etc
[11:45] <benkaiser_> LOL, I think I was in Google's bandwagon (I want to work there one day), but this Ubuntu Phone looks AMAZING!
[11:45] <Walther> Anyway, I would be very eager to start developing apps for the Ubuntu phone, and even more so to help make the ubuntu phone OS support more devices, namely, Nokia N9
[11:45] <LudwigVonMises> benkaiser_: What do you mean, webpage? a database?
[11:46] <benkaiser_> Normally whenever I make a database its either to be used for a website, or to do complex queries on the data... I guess your use must be much different
[11:47] <Walther> Databases are simple. Uses of 'em usually aren't.
[11:47] <Walther> you can easily sudo apt-get install mysql or anythin other, nothing special about "cloud databases" and whatnot
[11:47] <benkaiser_> Walther: I am keen too... Love to steal some of those 1,000,000-10,000,000 download android apps that other developers havn't touched yet....
[11:47] <Walther> benkaiser_: doesn't sound too original <_<
[11:48]  * Walther would prefer making something actually useful and new
[11:48] <LudwigVonMises> benkaiser_: I have a irc bot I am developing. Its plugins directory is synced on google drive. The bot keeps a quote database on a google spreadsheet.
[11:48] <benkaiser_> Walther: does it have to be? the point is building the eco system to have the basics of other ones....
[11:48] <LudwigVonMises> it is thus easily viewable by anyone who wants to go through the database, which will eventually become enormous
[11:49] <Walther> benkaiser_: that too, but if I'm not mistaken, it might be possible to run android apps on ubuntu as well
[11:49] <benkaiser_> LudwikVonMises: Sounds pretty good :)
[11:49] <LudwigVonMises> and of course it works on my channel and the community I will be devoloping
[11:49] <Walther> I mean, the Android VM (dalvik) should be port-able
[11:49] <benkaiser_> Walther, it would be even slower than html5 apps then wouldn't it?
[11:50] <LudwigVonMises> benkaiser_: Thanks. I just learned to program two days ago, and it seems a whole new world has opened up :P.  reminds me of that xkcd comic
[11:50] <LudwigVonMises> a weekend screwing around in perl will give you a career, where as hours studying english won't
[11:51] <benkaiser_> LudwigVonMises: Which language? and which comic? (I wrote a python script to download all the xkcd comics to date into a folder)
[11:51] <benkaiser_> Oh yes, that one is gold :)
[11:51] <LudwigVonMises> Because I am a vagabond, I'd like to be able to develope in public libraries, where I can add to my quote db
[11:51] <Walther> benkaiser_: possible
[11:51] <LudwigVonMises> LudwigVonMises: Python, supybot. I forget which comic.
[11:52] <LudwigVonMises> err, benkaiser_
[11:52] <LudwigVonMises> o_O
[11:52] <benkaiser_> found it http://xkcd.com/519/
[11:53] <Walther> well, there's no point in making IRC bots when there's already Bucket, billygoat and flyingferret at #xkcd, but that's offtopic
[11:53] <Walther> Anyway, any official news on the availability of the images?
[11:54] <LudwigVonMises> My goal is to move away from Google, though they are not horrid, I just dislike their search, especially recently. Im a pretty conservative guy, and I didnt appreciate the other day when I did a google search, and it displayed a ad banner stating "You deserve an orgy today!" with some cartoon lady on the front. My search wasnt even remotely related to that.
[11:56] <LudwigVonMises> I'd love an integrated suite on the other hand made up of ubuntu, ubuntu one, online editting software, duckduckgo, and an opensource type of social network
[11:56] <benkaiser_> LudwigVonMises: What is your search history like o.0 ? I do like 40+ searches every day and I love Google search, what do you use as an alternative?
[11:57] <LudwigVonMises> benkaiser_: at that time, I was searching around for homeless blogs. Duckduckgo when I can, though its not perfect
[11:57] <Walther> eh, offtopic to -offtopic tyvm
[11:57] <LudwigVonMises> but you notice everyday that it gets better,
[11:57] <LudwigVonMises> like, allot better.
[11:57] <Walther> a lot*
[11:58] <LudwigVonMises> Thank you. Bad habit.
[12:30] <nrosvall> Hi
[12:30] <nrosvall> it might be too early to ask, but will ubuntu-sdk support other languages than c++/qt/qml?
[12:31] <nrosvall> I'm fine with c++ though so not a big deal for me personally
[12:31] <nrosvall> it's also nice that we will finally have a phone OS where c++ is first class citizen
[12:35] <niqt_> hi
[12:36] <niqt_> will usable in future the phone sdk on other linux distro?
[12:49] <sledges> any news on licencing/openness ?
[12:49] <sledges> hello :))
[12:51] <niqt_> sledges, all silent
[12:53] <LudwigVonMises> nrosvall: maybe python :)
[12:53] <LudwigVonMises> I dunno, just stating what I would want
[12:53] <nrosvall> I would love to have python too :)
[12:54] <LudwigVonMises> java, not so much.
[12:55] <nrosvall> Vala would be nice
[12:55] <benkaiser_> Agreed on python...
[12:55] <nrosvall> but I think it's just about qt now, so python might be. not sure if there is a proper support for qt5
[12:56] <nrosvall> pyside or pyqt does not have much work done for it yet
[12:56] <LudwigVonMises> nrosvall: is qt nice to develope in?
[12:56] <nrosvall> it is for c++ at least
[12:56] <LudwigVonMises> is it a higher or lower level language than python?
[12:56] <nrosvall> c++?
[12:56] <nrosvall> lower
[12:56] <LudwigVonMises> qt
[12:56] <jo-erlend> much lower and a completely different syntax.
[12:57] <nrosvall> actually very low level
[12:57] <LudwigVonMises> qt is lower level?
[12:57] <nrosvall> qt is a framework
[12:57] <nrosvall> available for python and c++
[12:57] <nrosvall> and java(?)
[12:57] <LudwigVonMises> okay, I wasnt sure
[12:58] <LudwigVonMises> thats what I thought.
[12:58] <jo-erlend> will I _have to_ use qt and qml, or is that if I _choose_ to use the new API?
[12:58] <nrosvall> jo-erlend, not sure
[12:59] <niqt_> LudwigVonMises you can write your Qt code  also only qml and javascript
[12:59] <benkaiser_> so a qml file... defining the interface... is the logic for that written in C++ atm?
[12:59] <nrosvall> I think you will be able to use just qt
[12:59] <nrosvall> but not sure
[12:59] <niqt_> logic also in javascript
[12:59] <nrosvall> you can do the logic in c++ if you want
[12:59] <nrosvall> thats for sure
[13:00] <benkaiser_> Javascript sounds easier (I have a LOT more experience in JS than C++)
[13:00] <jo-erlend> I really hope they'll enable support for other tools. I much prefer Vala, which pretty much implies GTK+.
[13:00] <sledges> why don't you just go and try qt for yourselves? http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[13:00] <nrosvall> anyway I need to start installing Ubuntu on this machine now. I'm starting to develop my first commercial application for Linux
[13:01] <jo-erlend> nice :)
[13:01] <nrosvall> I did spend 10 years writing software for windows and now I had enough. Windows 8 is just so bad. and their internal process with all the developer account shit is just horrible
[13:01] <nrosvall> their customer support sucks
[13:02] <nrosvall> and to be honest windows UI is ugly and horrible to use(in my opinion)
[13:02] <xnox> it's all qt5
[13:02] <nrosvall> I have done some linux development for couple of years, but nothing which is publicly available
[13:02] <nrosvall> anyway, no more Windows dev for me.
[13:03] <sledges> yes, qt5's very slick
[13:03] <benkaiser_> judging by the mobile tutorial, the qml looks very similar to Javascripts functions and JSON data
[13:04] <sledges> qml supports javascript (to its extent)
[13:04] <sledges> and style sheets are written in (surprise surprise) css!
[13:05] <benkaiser_> so does that mean a lot of javascript code (not editing the DOM and whatnot) will port to qml quite easily? is the css only for the HTML5 apps? or even the native ones?
[13:06] <sledges> css is to define a QML UI style
[13:06] <vibhav> Sorry to disturb you guys, but will ubuntu-phone be open source?
[13:06]  * vibhav is late to the party
[13:06] <sledges> i changed one of its property on my Nokia N9 MeeGo Qt phone, and homescreen started to rotate to landscape - hacky simples
[13:07] <sledges> vibhav, no news yet (was my first question upon entering this chan :))
[13:07] <sledges> yes, javascript (the logic code) should be ported with ease, benkaiser_
[13:07] <vibhav> Hopefully, it will be
[13:07] <benkaiser_> okay, so do they have special properties custom to QML? and cheers sledges
[13:08] <sledges> yes, the properties are for QML, but they tried not to deviate from HTML namings too much
[13:09] <sledges> I'd look forward contributing to a facebook or maps app of it went opensource, but then ubuntu will make profit from loads of product placement (sadly dislike 12.12 where searching for terminal amongs apps brings up suggestions to buy xbox console :( )
[13:10] <benkaiser_> sledges: is the id in the QML for the stylesheet?
[13:11] <sledges> can't tell, i'm excited yet to learn the whole stuff
[13:11] <sledges> but could guess id serves the same things as for getElementById
[13:11] <benkaiser_> Same :D and yep
[13:17] <sledges> Stskeeps, gossiping from #ubuntu-phone: 12:49 < sledges> any news on licencing/openness ?  12:50 < niqt_> sledges, all silent
[13:18] <sledges> everyone's keen on freedom :)
[13:36] <user82> ring ding ding bananphone...uhm ubuntuphone i meant
[13:40] <k1l> user82: :)
[13:41] <user82> soon k1l, soon! hopefully
[13:49] <user82> samsung galaxy nexus images are still tbd right?
[13:49] <popey> nothing available as yet.
[13:50] <user82> ok..
[13:50] <user82> thought about buying one anyway..but i guess i can as well wait then
[13:52] <k1l> im really thinking to buy my GF a gnex :) and maybe sometimes i need to test something on it :)
[13:56] <k1l> afaik the ubuntu-for-android based on a technic that motorola developed and used for their webtop stuff. does that ubuntu-for android and that new ubuntu-for-ubuntu work on other mobile devices?
[14:14] <Pip> So where to buy a U phone?
[14:14] <icesword> u phone?
[14:15] <Pip> Ubuntu phone
[14:15] <icesword> are you sure it's on sale?
[14:15] <Pip> No
[14:16] <icesword> then you can try it maybe on your own phone at your own risk
[14:18] <mhall119> Tak: popey: My understand is that native apps will be allowed, and are in fact recommended
[14:18] <Tak> "native" not meaning "qml" , correct?
[14:19] <mhall119> QML is the toolkit of choice because it's simple, runs well on mobile, and we've put a lot of work into making it work on devices of different sizes and resolutions without the developer having to change their layout code
[14:19] <mhall119> Tak: QML is not native?
[14:19] <Tak> no?
[14:19] <mhall119> I consider it native
[14:20] <mhall119> at any rate, C/C++ apps will be allowed, is my understanding
[14:20] <user82> does anyone have a original photo from a google nexus 4 camera with 8mpx?
[14:20] <Tak> yes, why?
[14:20] <mhall119> why will they be allowed?
[14:20] <h00k> Pip: sorry ;) here it is.
[14:20] <Tak> sorry, that was in response to user82's question
[14:20] <mhall119> oh, ok
[14:21] <user82> Tak, a non personal one you can send me? for having a look at how good it is 1:1 size
[14:21] <Pip> QML is from Nokia, right?
[14:21] <yfi> Pip: no
[14:21] <Tak> mhall119: do you have any info about setting up a dev environment for c apps?
[14:21] <xnox> Pip: well, now digia
[14:22] <mhall119> Tak: no, I think that's up to you what you use
[14:22] <yfi> Pip: it's part of Qt, which is governed by the Qt Project. digia (and formerly nokia) have special rights when it comes to commercial licensing
[14:22] <vibhav> mhall119: Are there any minimum specifications for Ubuntu Phone
[14:22] <mhall119> vibhav: hardware specs?
[14:22] <vibhav> mhall119: yep
[14:22] <yfi> and they do the lion share of the work, to be fair
[14:22] <mhall119> vibhav: http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/operators-and-oems
[14:23] <Pip> I wish Ubuntu phone is better than Android phone
[14:23] <mhall119> I don't think those are "minimum" so much as they are general targets
[14:23] <h00k> Tak: basically if you have build-essentials installed, you can use any environment/IDE you'd like to write C/C++ stuffs
[14:23] <Tak> I guess an "official" toolchain/scratchbox/something setup would be much appreciated
[14:23] <Tak> h00k: ok, how about building and deploying?
[14:23] <icesword> what's good about ubuntu phone
[14:24] <vibhav> mhall119: Any plans for a UDS session for Ubuntu Phone? I will be very eager to participate in one
[14:24] <mhall119> Tak: the "official" setup is QtCreator and Qt/QML
[14:24] <h00k> Tak: http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/, but I haven't really checked at what's said here yet
[14:24] <mhall119> vibhav: I'm sure there will be, we haven't started with blueprints for the next UDS yet
[14:24] <Tak> ok, how does one write an opengl app with qml? ;-)
[14:24] <user82> Tak, do you have a suitable photo or none right now?
[14:24] <mhall119> Tak: packaging and deploying will work like any other app
[14:25] <mhall119> Tak: http://developer.ubuntu.com/publish/
[14:25] <Tak> sure
[14:25] <mhall119> Tak: I'm sure you can mix Qt/QML and OpenGL
[14:25] <mhall119> maybe not Qt/QML with C, but with C++ you can
[14:26] <Tak> the piece I'm missing is the build toolchain for whatever arm variant(s) ubuntu phone will support
[14:27] <vibhav> mhall119: Can I write apps operating from a terminal?
[14:28] <gac> user82: https://secure.flickr.com/photos/ubergizmo/sets/72157631911479790/
[14:28] <user82> thank you gac :)
[14:29] <yfi> Tak: you can cross-compile gcc for arm rather easily, the more tricky part is to get a full sysroot up and running. a while ago codesourcery had a reasonable offering, I don't know what the situation is nowadays
[14:29] <Tak> yes, that's essentially my question
[14:30] <Tak> apparently I'm very poor at asking it
[14:31] <Tak> maemo used to have instructions for setting up a scratchbox with all the appropriate packages
[14:33] <mhall119> Tak: yes, gcc is what will be used, as far as I know
[14:33] <mhall119> vibhav: as long as somebody writes a nice terminal app for you to run it in
[14:34] <Tak> gac: more interesting than my cat ;-)
[14:35] <vibhav> mhall119: Any idea if the app store will use dpkg internally?
[14:35] <mhall119> vibhav: it does now
[14:36]  * vibhav cheers
[14:47] <benkaiser> will there be a terminal app ;) or will we have to go get it from the software centre?
[14:55] <mhall119> benkaiser: it's too early to say
[14:55] <benkaiser> fair enough :)
[15:01] <robin-gloster1> mhall119: will the whole stack be open source? or will there be closed source parts?
[15:02] <Tak> I guess at least some drivers will be closed
[15:02] <mhall119> possibly some drivers, yeah, but otherwise it should all be open
[15:03] <robin-gloster1> mhall119: thanks
[15:03] <mhall119> our parts anyway
[15:03] <mhall119> 3rd party developers and OEMs will be free to make closed-source apps
[15:04] <robin-gloster1> mhall119: sure, that's something different
[15:11] <AlanBell> is ubuntu phone using a linaro kernel?
[15:13] <mhall119> AlanBell: I don't think Linaro targets the SoC in the Galaxy Nexus
[15:13] <mhall119> but then again, I'm not sure what SoC it has
[15:15] <AlanBell> so does this have Linaro involvement?
[15:20] <mhall119> AlanBell: I don't know, you should ask akgraner
[15:21] <rsalveti> we're mostly just using linaro compiler at this point
[15:21] <rsalveti> the kernel used for galaxy nexus is the same one as provided by aosp, so not much from linaro
[15:22] <AlanBell> ok
[15:25] <mhall119> thanks rsalveti
[15:30] <Lofde_> I am ready to alpha test ubuntu on my galaxy nexus ... as a developer :D if anyone has an image !
[15:31] <sivang> evening all
[15:31] <mhall119> Lofde_: images aren't available yet, sorry
[15:31] <Lofde_> is there a mailing list to sign up on when they are
[15:31] <sivang> hey mhall119
[15:31] <sivang> mhall119: got my email?
[15:32] <mhall119> sivang: I did, yes, thank you
[15:32] <sivang> sledges: you're here as well! were you part of the work before release?
[15:33] <sivang> oops
[15:33] <sivang> that was for:
[15:33] <sivang> sladen: ^^
[15:33] <sivang> mhall119: is there a list of apps somewhere (wiki) that ubuntu phone needs?
[15:34] <mhall119> sivang: we're getting it together now, should be announced soon along with a program for getting community involvement writing them
[15:35] <sivang> mhall119: through skunkworks?
[15:35] <mhall119> sivang: no, it will all be public
[15:35] <sivang> mhall119: ah, so no skunkworks anymore?
[15:36] <mhall119> it will be skunkworks-like in that it'll pair community members with canonical staff
[15:36] <sivang> mhall119: where's the sketch up for the list happening?
[15:36] <mhall119> sivang: skunkworks is on-going, and will cover more than just the phone
[15:36] <mhall119> sivang: I don't think there's a public list anywhere yet
[15:37] <sivang> mhall119: ah, perhaps good to have it online somewhere so c.members can add their ones? (this can help create the list in an instance due to crowd sourcing)
[15:37] <sivang> mhall119: can always merge with the internal list later
[15:37] <sivang> mhall119: (Exclude duplicates, remove irrelevant stuff, etc)
[15:38] <mhall119> sivang: the list we're working on will be what we need in a default install, community folks aren't limited to that list
[15:38] <sivang> mhall119: okay cool.
[15:38] <sivang> mhall119: so that'll be the 'main' UI part of the phone image ;)
[15:39] <mhall119> it'll be default apps like you'd get on a new Android phone
[15:39] <mhall119> mail, calendar, that kind of thing
[15:43] <sivang> mhall119: okay, when do we start? ;)
[15:43] <mhall119> sivang: as soon as we have it all together
[15:45] <sivang> mhall119: k, cool
[15:47] <sivang> mhall119: prolly good to send a call out for community help on that, somewhere on site or so.
[15:47] <sivang> anyway, laters
[16:49] <user82> mhall119, what do you personally think. how long till a nexus installer/rom?
[16:53] <AlanBell> I did a bit of FAQ and link collecting please edit, it is a wiki https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPhone
[16:58] <user82> AlanBell, one more video: http://www.viddler.com/v/ac8413f3?secret=106830881
[16:59] <AlanBell> user82: go add it :)
[17:01] <user82> what the hell? did he really launch android apps in ubuntu phone??
[17:01] <user82> is this correct
[17:02] <user82> AlanBell, says to me "protected site". can you add it please?
[17:08] <popey> user82: it's a wiki, you need to sign in
[17:08] <popey> user82: he didn't launch any android apps there
[17:09] <user82> popey, were those the ubuntu phone apps?
[17:09] <AlanBell> user82: added it
[17:09] <user82> thansk AlanBell
[17:09] <user82> popey, singin did not work for me..hung up
[17:09] <popey> user82: they are native ubuntu apps
[17:09] <mhall119> user82: I don't have any idea on the timeframe, sorry
[17:10] <user82> ok mhall119 ..i thought so.
[17:10] <user82> so you thing he just said android but meant ubuntu apps popey ?
[17:10] <popey> user82: at what point did he say android?
[17:11] <popey> i just watched it and must have missed that
[17:11] <popey> anyway, they're not android apps, they're ubuntu native ones ☺
[17:11] <user82> sorry popey i forgot the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyeFcldavTk#t=1m15s
[17:11] <user82> my bad
[17:11] <popey> Thats not Ubuntu for Phones, that's Ubuntu for Android.
[17:12] <popey> Not the same product ☺
[17:12] <user82> oh ok
[17:12] <AlanBell> oh, I may have cocked up and up a U4A video on the page :)
[17:13]  * AlanBell removes
[17:13] <user82> yep AlanBell..probably wrong product
[18:06] <sledges> fellows, how is hardware adaptation handled for ubuntu phone os? gpu/vpu drivers, 2D/3D hw accel, gstreamer hw accel plugins, ril for wifi, closed source binary blobs only for bionic ?
[18:07] <sledges> will each device that ubuntu os is ported to have its own PPA repo?
[18:09] <sledges> what are supported architectures (arm versions, mips), and hardfp/softfp aspects
[18:16] <popey> sledges: the core system is based around an android BSP
[18:16] <popey> so we can use android specific hardware drivers
[18:16] <popey> not running full android, but the drivers.
[18:17] <popey> i dont think we've look at the details of phone specific PPAs or package delivery in detail yet
[18:27] <thebishop> does ubuntu phone run the same kernel as the desktop?  what modifications have been made to the base system to address battery life, ui responsiveness, multiuser, etc?
[18:28] <popey> thebishop: we've learned from the Ubuntu on Nexus 7, and many of those issues are being fixed and rolling through the desktop and will also end up in the phone.
[18:29] <thebishop> popey, interesting.  i was talking to some devs in #ubuntu-nexus7, and they said the UI isn't going to be in the n7 image by default.  is it possible to build from source and install right now?
[18:30] <popey> not yet
[18:47] <jo-erlend> popey, do you know if I'll _have to_ use c++ with qt in order to write native apps, or is that just a convenience and I'll still be able to write in gtk/vala?
[18:49] <mhall119> jo-erlend: that is going ot be our recommended way
[18:49] <mhall119> but you should be able to write it with any language and toolkit that will run on the hardware and software
[18:51] <jo-erlend> Right. Ok. Very good.
[18:52] <mhall119> jo-erlend: if you use a toolkit other than the QML provided, you're going to have to do a lot more work to make it work on multiple devices and formfactors
[18:52] <mhall119> which is why we're recommending QML and the Ubuntu QML components
[18:54] <jo-erlend> hmm. I don't like the sound of that at all.
[18:55] <mhall119> jo-erlend: it's just the nature of the toolkits, most aren't made to support multiple resolutions and form factors with a single codebase
[18:55] <mhall119> we've put a lot of work into making that work with our SDK
[18:56] <mhall119> so you can write your UI once and it'll work all over the place
[18:56] <mhall119> but you're not going to get that with Gtk (at least not yet, I hope they add it too)
[18:56] <robin-gloster1> mhall119: jono kind of just said that it's not possible at all to use sth other than HTML5, QML, OpenGL in his Q&A session
[18:56] <mhall119> so, again, you can use what you want, but we're going to recommend the easiest one
[18:58] <robin-gloster1> mhall119: maybe correct that statement in #ubuntu-on-air?
[18:58] <jo-erlend> how does this affect Python? If I remember correctly, it's only free for non-commercial use?
[18:58] <jo-erlend> I mean the qt-bindings.
[18:59] <jrtappers> will ubuntu phone have terminal?
[19:01] <mhall119> jo-erlend: I think it depends on the binding
[19:01] <mhall119> jrtappers: if somebody writes one, yes
[19:02] <mhall119> robin-gloster1: let me confrm before I make any corrections
[19:02] <robin-gloster1> mhall119: yup
[19:04] <yfi> will qml be the only choice to draw on screen with qt, or is there a way to use qwidgets?
[19:10] <thebishop> popey, is there any rough timeframe for repo access? not a date, but like weeks, months?
[19:13] <jrtappers> Who uses ubutu with a 3G modem?
[19:15] <thebishop> jrtappers, i have in the past
[19:16] <thebishop> jrtappers, always pleasantly surprised by the plug-and-playiness
[19:16] <thebishop> even with 4g wimax cards
[19:16] <jrtappers> http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/30462/                    Do you agree?
[19:17] <jrtappers> Plugged it in today .1 MB, think it was on Edge, couldn't check
[19:18] <jrtappers> 100kB/s
[19:18] <popey> thebishop: no
[19:18] <thebishop> :)
[19:21] <mhall119> yfi: robin-gloster1: for now only QML and HTML5 are being developed and supported, anything else is "to be determined"
[19:22] <robin-gloster1> mhall119: ok thanks :)
[19:22] <mhall119> np
[19:23] <yfi> also thanks.
[19:23] <jo-erlend> but if I have a Python/GTK application, then it will run without any work, except it might not look as nice as other apps do?
[19:23] <rsalveti> sladen: at the end the drivers will depend on the vendor, we can provide a way to re-use the drivers from android
[19:23] <rsalveti> but if the vendor wants to use following the standard at ubuntu/generic linux, they can
[19:27] <mhall119> jo-erlend: at this point there are no guarntees it'll work on the phone
[21:01] <bobweaver> so I am running into troubles with the way that the dpu is getting rendered in you all's elements
[21:02] <bobweaver> why use dpu when you can just use something like parent.width / 12
[21:02] <bobweaver> when you re-scale the interface nothing will fit because of it
[21:03] <bobweaver> my work around was to set  font.Pixlsize: to something like parent.width / whatever
[21:03] <bobweaver> or the font does not resize its self thus causing maxed apps to have small titles and what not
[21:04] <jrtappers> Will ubuntu phone be USB OTG compatable?
[21:05] <bobweaver> I wonder where I should file bugs for stuff like that. and If i fix ?
[21:05] <bobweaver> jrtappers,  what is OTG ?
[21:05] <bobweaver> out the gate ?
[21:05] <jrtappers> On The Go
[21:05] <jrtappers> The port can act as host
[21:05] <jrtappers> you can connect mice and flash drives etc to it
[21:06] <bobweaver> jrtappers,  I would say (GUESSING HERE)  that as long as the kerenl can see the usb's then yueah it should work
[21:06] <jrtappers> That could be useful
[21:06] <bobweaver> same with hdmi ect
[21:07] <jrtappers> Especially if it supports usb ethernet adapters, so routers and switches can be set up on an ubuntu phone
[21:07] <bobweaver> jrtappers,  Does Ubuntu desktop support that ?
[21:07] <bobweaver> << is poor and can not afford hardware
[21:08] <jrtappers> I think ubuntu supports usb network adapters
[21:09] <bobweaver> So no one knows where to file bugs and patch's for the qml elements  ?
[21:14] <jrtappers> ubuntu phone should have the turn over to mute feature from HTC
[21:14] <bobweaver> there is also things like AbstractButton that can not use things like    if (mouse Qt.LeftButton)  activateUriWithLens(lens, categoryId, uri, mimetype)   else if  (mouse.QtRightButton) activatePreviews()
[21:17] <bobweaver> I added  acceptedButtons: Qt.LeftButton | Qt.RightButton to AbstractButton and also some state's and transitions also OnEntered and On Exit need to be added.
[21:17] <bobweaver> well I think that is not that they "need to be added" but IMHO would make more robust
[21:18] <jalcine> Is there any way I can run the Ubuntu Phone in a VM of sorts?
[21:20] <bobweaver> jalcine,  there is no iso or even code base out yet BUT there is qml elements and also a notepad examp,e that you can play with
[21:20] <bobweaver> public that is ^^
[21:21] <bobweaver> but you can play with the qml elements that canonical made and also make apps
[21:21] <mhall119> jrtappers: re: OTA updates, it's too early to say for sure, but I don't see why it wouldn't
[21:21] <bobweaver> unless something has changed in the last 12 hours
[21:21] <mhall119> oh, wait, OTG?  that I have no idea
[21:22] <bobweaver> mhall119,  that is what I also said
[21:22] <bobweaver> on the go *
[21:22] <mhall119> jalcine: there is no way to run the phone software itself yet
[21:22] <jalcine> Interesting. And I'm guessing with U1 support, you could kind of leverage it as a cloud kind of thing, to make apps work everywhere.
[21:22] <bobweaver> I thought that it was Out the Gate .... silly bob
[21:23] <jrtappers> mhall119, that was USB OTG, not OTA updates
[21:23] <mhall119> jalcine: yes, your apps can sync data using U1 without having to provide your own syncing service
[21:23] <jrtappers> sorry for confusion
[21:23] <mhall119> jrtappers: yeah, I caught that only afterwards
[21:23] <popey> USB requires both hardware & software support, too early to say yet.
[21:24] <slangasek> though for comparison, the Ubuntu Nexus7 images support OTG just fine
[21:24] <bobweaver> popey,  mhall119  you will be at CES ?  I am wondering If I should spend all my money to go to vegas
[21:24] <popey> no
[21:24] <mhall119> no
[21:24] <mhall119> jono will though
[21:25] <mhall119> but it's expensive, I don't know why you'd want to pay your own way
[21:25] <bobweaver> I dont
[21:25] <mhall119> bobweaver: I'd just wait for the videos to hit youtube
[21:25] <mhall119> that's what I'll be doing
[21:25] <mhall119> that and parying because the boss is out of town :)
[21:26] <bobweaver> but if it get's me somewhere. This is super important to me. because of the tv thing and what not
[21:26] <mhall119> bobweaver: it's all business stuff
[21:26] <mhall119> well, business stuff and crazy business parties after
[21:26] <mhall119> from what I hear, anyway
[21:27] <bobweaver> If I am going to replace all my elements thta I have made with Ubuntu elements then that is cool. But I mostly want to learn about glib and how or if itt listens to dbus
[21:27] <mhall119> there be dragons
[21:27] <bobweaver> Oo
[21:28] <bobweaver> mhall119,  you have to understand that I work on the tv code like 9 hours out of the day everyday . so that is why it is so important to me
[21:29] <bobweaver> so taking everything that I have already and porting it into the interface that is already there would be a good thing well... I think that it would be a good thing that is
[21:29] <bobweaver> << can not afford a high end phone
[21:30] <mhall119> heh, neither can I, I'm still sporting my Wife's old DroidX
[21:30] <bobweaver> :)
[21:30] <mhall119> with it's stupid encrypted bootloader
[21:31] <jrtappers> why? Why does a phone need an encrypted bootloader?
[21:31] <bobweaver> the last phone that I had I install Ubuntu on it (chroot)
[21:31] <mhall119> bobweaver: are you currently using the Qt Dbus library?
[21:31] <jrtappers> Its just to  limit the users!
[21:31] <mhall119> jrtappers: pretty much
[21:31] <bobweaver> mhall119, parts of it yes
[21:31] <mhall119> ok
[21:32] <bobweaver> deelistmodel <<
[21:32] <bobweaver> that is something else and also bamf
[21:32] <mhall119> ah yes, bamf
[21:33] <bobweaver> lol
[21:33] <mhall119> BAMF!
[21:33] <mhall119> it's like the old Batman
[21:33] <bobweaver> 2 months ago I did not know what it was :( now I know too well what it is
[21:33]  * mhall119 ages himself
[21:33] <bobweaver> mhall119,  here I will paste all libs
[21:35] <bobweaver> mhall119,  http://paste.ubuntu.com/1493186/
[21:36] <k1l_> jrtappers: encypted bootloader to save the user, you got that wrong :)
[21:36] <jrtappers> Save them from what?
[21:38] <k1l_> from ruining their devices, they said. i mean secureboot got some points in securing the OS. but its used to limit the users
[21:38] <bobweaver> mhall119,  I forgot qt5_automoc  and GTK_LDFLAGS  DCONFQT_LIBRARIES
[21:38] <mhall119> bobweaver: what is that from?
[21:39] <bobweaver> Cmake files of my port of Unity 2d to qt5
[21:39] <mhall119> and it needs gtk and gdk stuff?
[21:40] <bobweaver> yeah for the pannel and all sorts of stuff :(
[21:40] <mhall119> oh right, I forgot the panel was still Gtk
[21:41] <bobweaver> mainly app/*
[21:41] <bobweaver> for panel ^^