TheMusoHrmmm. Seems the nexus 7 daily images are not very zsyncable.00:46
robruanybody here have any experience setting up a project to use valadoc?02:03
=== hggdh_ is now known as hggdh
TheMusoRAOF, jasoncwarner, hope you guys are keeping comfortable today.03:14
* RAOF has just been offered an ice cream. He's pretty comfortable.03:15
TheMusoIf its refreshing, thats all that matters I guess.03:15
cheebuHi all03:18
cheebuI have a Radeon HD 6470M Graphics card are there drivers for it on ubuntu03:19
RAOFcheebu: Yes; you're after #ubuntu for support questions, though03:25
duflusmspillaz: Hello?03:37
=== Optichip` is now known as Optichip
smspillazduflu: howdy04:16
smspillazsorry for the late response, I found on old TV on a verge and can finally play skyward sword after my tv was broken for about a year04:17
smspillazdesrt: do you know what the most sensible approach for projects using glib + gcc 4.8 are at this point ?04:19
smspillazjust detect the compiler and disable the warning?04:19
smspillazI believe its PS policy to use -Werror, as much as I dislike it04:19
smspillazdesrt: FWIW, pretty much every other library that uses static asserts in its headers got screwed by this change too :)04:20
smspillazboost, v8 etc etc04:20
duflusmspillaz: I was going to mention that I will be aiming to tag a within hours/days. Only really bad regressions need to be squeezed in. The rest can go for
smspillazduflu: sure thing. do compiler errors count as bad regressions ?04:23
dufluAlso, I will be at a sprint from the end of next week and all the following week.04:23
duflusmspillaz: Only if it's the compiler version native to that release04:24
smspillazduflu: does clang count ?04:24
duflusmspillaz: Depends on triviality of the fix and whether there is one already04:24
micahgonly if you're running on BSD :)04:24
smspillazduflu: hrm, I didn't know they were doing sprints in the mid-year04:24
smspillazI thought they had canned the whole "lets fly the company everywhere" policy by the time I left :)04:25
duflusmspillaz: *shrug*04:25
* duflu goes to finish lunch and dishes04:25
smspillazduflu: can you check if either dbarth or iftikhar amed are going? I have a laptop to give them04:26
smspillazand I can't post it because FedEx hates me04:26
duflusmspillaz: Yes dbarth confirmed. Drop it over I guess04:26
* duflu goes afk04:26
=== pitti_ is now known as pitti
pittiGood morning05:39
pittiand happy new year everyone!05:39
didrocksgood morning!06:26
dufluMorning didrocks, pitti06:29
didrockshey duflu, how were your holidays?06:29
dufludidrocks: Very busy with Christmas and home improvement. But sleeping in was excellent. You??06:30
pittibonjour didrocks, je tu souhaite une bonne année!06:30
pittihey duflu, how are you?06:30
dufluGood thanks pitti06:31
dufluHow was the holiday(s)?06:31
didrocksguten morgen pitti! Bonne année à toi aussi :)06:31
didrocksduflu: was good as well, even had the opportunity to take a day for skying :)06:31
pittiI enjoyed ours very much; we'd been in Dresden06:31
pittididrocks: what is skying? you had a parachute, I hope?06:32
dufluHeh, didrocks 00706:32
didrockspitti: duflu: ok, always trapped by this one :p "go skiing" :)06:32
dufluEnglish sucks. And don't forget vacuum06:33
=== Noskcaj is now known as Noskcaj_afk
=== Noskcaj_afk is now known as Noskcaj
didrockshey Laney, how are you?07:29
didrockshey Laney!09:05
Laneyhow's it going? well rested? :-)09:05
didrocksnot that much in fact, I couldn't disconnect mentally weirdly09:06
didrockseven if I didn't work09:06
didrockswell, I still have a week of skiing at the end of the month, so I'll use that :)09:06
didrocksand you? how were your holidays?09:06
Laneygood, spent some time with my family and then with my girlfriend's family09:07
Laneythen went to the countryside in wales for new years09:07
didrockssweet :)09:07
LaneyI received a record player for christmas too so I've been becoming a vinyl nerd :P09:10
didrocksahah, excellent! big collection of vinyls? :)09:10
Laneynot yet, but hopefully soon!09:15
* Laney spies much unread email09:16
didrocksLaney: FYI, ubuntu-themes is automatically merged09:17
didrocksLaney: so no need to merge yourself (actually it's worse because you have to bump the version yourself, and we don't have automagic changelog)09:18
Laneydidrocks: aha, we did wonder about that09:18
LaneyI was asking what to do about the changelog at the time09:19
didrocksLaney: wasn't cyphermox around?09:19
Laneyinfact I don't know how to work with these auto packages any more really09:19
didrockshe should be knowledgeable about it :)09:19
LaneyI think I spoke with jibel but he was also unsure09:19
didrocksLaney: ok, cyphermox should have it picked up and looked at the merge, anyway, no worry for this one, it's more a FYI :)09:20
Laneythanks, the information is good09:21
Laneyis there documentation for how to work with these packages?09:21
didrocksLaney: not yet, but normally the person responsible for the stack should pick it up when looking at the merge09:22
didrocksLaney: I will check that cyphermox is looking at that one09:22
Laneynot sure if he is or isn't - in this case it was because the contributor pinged in here so I thought I'd look at it09:23
Laneyit's good for any developer to be able to make changes if they need to anyway09:23
didrocksLaney: oh, they can and even upload09:24
didrocksLaney: it's blocking the daily build if it's not synced09:24
didrocksbut as we have a merger, it's better to use it :)09:24
Laneyso all that needs is an approve vote on the MP?09:26
Laneyand are MPs expected to update d/changelog or is that done automatically?09:26
didrocksLaney: approve vote and change the globale status to "approved"09:30
didrocksLaney: if a bug is attached to a MP, the bug title will be use in debian/changelog09:30
didrockslinked to the author of the merge09:30
mitya57Happy new year everybody, I have an ubuntu-themes related question09:49
mitya57does anybody know why all that file is commented out?09:49
jjardon__Hi, does anyone know if ubuntu for phones will be libre software?09:55
Laneyjjardon__: #ubuntu-phone is the place for questions about this10:09
jjardon__Laney: thanks10:35
=== tkamppeter__ is now known as tkamppeter
tkamppeterpitti, hi11:47
pittihello tkamppeter, gesundes Neues!12:00
chrisccoulsonhi pitti, how are you?12:15
pittihey chrisccoulson, happy new year!12:15
didrockshey chrisccoulson! happy new year :)12:15
chrisccoulsonpitti, didrocks, happy new year to you too :)12:16
pittichrisccoulson: had some nice holidays?12:17
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, it turned out ok, although i'm kinda glad it's over now. i had flu for the first week, and then 2 days before christmas we had 2 appliances fail - 1 of them being our refrigerator :(12:19
chrisccoulsonso it's been an expensive few weeks ;)12:19
pittiI just recovered from a cold, but it was a light one12:19
pittiwas nice to see family and friends again in Dresden12:20
tkamppeterpitti, dir auch, danke.12:26
tkamppeterpitti, I am trying to get this with dh_installinit working, but I have a problem.12:26
tkamppeterpitti, Axxording to the man page one has to call it with "dh_installinit --name=cups", but I do not get the build process calling it this way, make targets "override_dh_installinit/cups-daemon:" or simply "override_dh_installinit:" get simply ignored.12:29
pittitkamppeter: in postgresql-common I just name the file debian/postgresql-common.postgresql.init12:29
pittiwhich ends up as /etc/init.d/postgresql.init12:30
pittiand call it with dh_installinit --name=postgresql -u'defaults 19 21' -r12:30
pittitkamppeter: oh, it's just override_dh_installinit: if you are using dh712:31
pittitkamppeter: i. e. use the existing target12:31
pittiand just add the --name=cups12:31
tkamppeterpitti, so debian/rules must contain:12:32
tkamppeter        dh_installinit --name=cups12:32
tkamppeterIs this correct?12:32
pittitkamppeter: no, we also still need the existing "upstart or not" magic12:33
pittitkamppeter: just add it to the existing rule12:33
=== Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan
ogra_mmm, cups12:40
tkamppeteroitti, where is this "upstart or not" magic? There is a common-install-prehook-impl:: which places the upstart file in the debian/ directory only on Ubuntu, but this should also work with the new cups-daemon package.12:40
* ogra_ gets coffee12:40
tkamppeterpitti: ^^12:42
pittitkamppeter: in override_dh_installinit: in debian/rules12:45
pittitkamppeter: I'm looking at current git head, are you not?12:45
pittitkamppeter: sounds like you are looking at a cdbs debian/rules12:45
pittitkamppeter: oh indeed, raring has a different packaging12:46
tkamppeterpitti, I am in the Raring package, cups_1.6.1-0ubuntu1312:46
pittiseems between raring and debian git there's quite some divergence12:46
pittitkamppeter: DEB_DH_INSTALLINIT_ARGS, just add it there12:46
tkamppeterpitti, Debian did not upload cups for months because of the test suite not working. So I have done several releases of cups Ubuntu-only. I have always added my changes to the GIT, but perhaps not taken some recent GIT changes to Ubuntu.12:48
pittitkamppeter: well, it's equally bad for the tests to not succeed in Ubuntu :)12:49
pittibefore you know it they will show a really important failure, and nobody will notice12:49
tkamppeterpitti found the DEB_DH_INSTALLINIT_ARGS place, so I add the --name=cups there.12:49
tkamppeterpitti, thank you very much, it is working correctly now. I had overlooked the init magic in the beginning of debian/rules.13:01
pittitkamppeter: great! (sorry, was off to lunch)13:17
=== davidcalle_ is now known as davidcalle
cyphermoxdidrocks: which merge did I miss?14:40
didrockshey cyphermox!14:41
didrockscyphermox: https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-art-pkg/ubuntu-themes/trunk14:41
didrockscyphermox: how are you btw? how were your holidays?14:42
cyphermoxgood, good14:42
didrockscyphermox: btw, I think you noticed there is another recent merge on ubuntu-themes (but maybe it needs more digging)14:43
didrockscyphermox: also FYI, I finally added the commit message for ido and approved https://code.launchpad.net/~robert-ancell/ido/lp582985/+merge/13979114:44
didrockscyphermox: if you see things are forgotten or not moving, feel free to do this kind of things14:44
desrtsmspillaz: "don't use -Werror"14:44
desrtsmspillaz: pretty simple universal advise for everyone.14:44
desrtyou didn't get 'screwed' by a GCC change.  you got screwed by your use of -Werror.14:45
didrockscyphermox: let's discuss on Monday how the indicator stack progressed between you and mterry looking at it the week before my holidays :)14:45
didrockshey desrt!14:46
didrocksgood holidays?14:46
larsudidrocks, !!!14:46
larsudidrocks, how are you?14:46
didrockshey larsu!!! ;)14:46
didrockslarsu: I'm good, thanks! yourself?14:47
larsudidrocks, good, thanks14:47
larsudidrocks, is this your first day back?14:47
didrockslarsu: right, and you? when did you get back?14:47
didrocksI didn't manage to disconnect mentally during holidays though, so looking forward for this week of skiing at the end of month :/14:47
pittihey desrt, hello cyphermox! happy new year!14:48
cyphermoxhey pitti, happy new year14:48
larsudidrocks, two days ago, but I haven't been very productive yet :)14:50
larsudidrocks, lots of catching up14:50
larsuhi cyphermox!14:50
* pitti hands didrocks a big "off" switch for the brain14:50
pittihey larsu, wie gehts?14:50
pitticatch up> OMGpainyes14:50
* didrocks grabs it gladely and will use it next time :)14:50
pittitook me 5 hours to get my ubuntu mbox down to 2 and my lists folder < 3014:50
didrockslarsu: heh, here as well :)14:50
larsupitti, gut danke. Et toi?14:51
pittilarsu: prima, danke!14:51
smspillazdesrt: its not really my decision sadly14:53
smspillazdesrt: plus, -Werror is handy ... sometimes14:54
smspillazdesrt: and to be fair, we got screwed by a gcc change causing some broken header file to stop compiling :)14:54
smspillazour code isn't broken :)14:54
smspillaznow it just happened there were a lot of broken header files out there14:55
desrtthe header file isn't broken either14:55
desrtit's perfectly conforming to the C language specification14:55
smspillazdesrt: if the compiler is warning about an unused typedef then you should probably fix that14:55
smspillazhowever pendantic it seems14:56
desrtthe compiler (incorrectly) assumes that there is no reason to ever have unused typedefs14:56
desrtit knows that it may be wrong14:56
desrtthat's why it's only a warning and not an error14:56
smspillazdesrt: I think the warning is stupid too14:56
smspillazbut its still a warning14:56
smspillazand it still breaks anyone who uses -Werror14:56
desrtyou ask for the unreasonable behaviour when you give -Werror14:56
desrtand i have no pity :)14:56
smspillazno, we ask for the compiler to make us fix bad behaviour and not let it slip by14:56
smspillazits not exactly FuckItJS14:57
smspillaz(which I read about the other day, and is like -Werror on steroids)14:57
desrtmy point is that not every warning is a case of 'bad behaviour'14:57
smspillazdesrt: well, we could turn the warning off14:57
smspillazdesrt: unfortunately, in a marvel of gcc stupidity, its a new compiler option14:58
desrtif you fancy playing whack-a-mole :)14:58
desrtsmspillaz: -Wno-error=....14:58
smspillazdesrt: -Wno-error=unused-typedefs doens't work with old compilers14:58
desrtare you sure?14:58
smspillazbecause .......... oh wait, that option never existed14:58
smspillazyep, I've tried it14:58
smspillazit also doesn't work with clang, which the powers the be insist that everything also compiles with14:59
desrtoh christ that's stupid14:59
smspillazdesrt: in any case, gnome will make a lot of people happy by just fixing the warning :)14:59
smspillazand save N maintainers from having to add crappy compiler detection code to their buildsytem so that they can turn off a warning :)15:00
desrti agree15:01
smspillazdesrt: I also concur that gcc would make N * M people happy if they didn't warn about unused typedefs in the first place :)15:01
desrtproblem is, it's difficult to fix15:01
smspillazdesrt: yeah, I saw :(15:01
desrtfor the same reason that you'd have to add compiler detection, so would we15:01
desrtand we'd have to figure out how to do it at compile time.......15:01
smspillazyeah I saw, it sucks15:01
smspillazwhat was that whole thing C++ having static_assert ?15:02
smspillazC++11 mind you15:02
smspillazI wonder if C11 got anything similar ...... ;-)15:02
smspillazdesrt: I wonder if it would make more sense to just put pressure back on the gcc folks to not warn about this15:03
desrtsmspillaz: up to you :)15:03
desrti guess you need a fix to come faster than they will reply, though15:03
smspillazheh yeah15:03
desrtthe alternative is that glib could stop caring about different compilers being used at glib-build and glib-user-build times15:04
desrtalthough in our new gcc/clang world, that seems kinda dangerous15:04
smspillazI think this is why I've grown tired of compiled languages15:04
smspillazor at least, languages with slightly varying compilers15:04
smspillazand no integrated build system15:04
* smspillaz misses go15:04
desrtif go is even vaguely successful in the medium/long term you will see more than one compiler, practically by definition :p15:05
chrisccoulsonheh, it seems that smspillaz has the same level of love for gcc as i do atm ;)15:08
smspillazdesrt: hopefully not, the go runtime and tools cover a lot of functionality15:10
smspillazthat's just like saying there will be more than one ja---- oh wait never mind15:10
desrtlooks like _Static_assert came in 4.6.015:11
smspillazdesrt: in other "other things breaking my build" news, we had a mesa version bump where they changed a function signature so that it wasn't compliant with the spec15:12
smspillazand then didn't change anything else in the header file to indicate the change15:12
smspillazC is the language of insanity15:13
desrti'm fixing glib15:13
smspillazdesrt: woohoo!15:13
smspillaznow I just need to get boost to fix their headers15:14
smspillazboost, possibly sigc ...15:14
geserI'm looking at the FTBFS of libvirt-glib and as it's in the desktop-extra set, I'm asking for an opinion: the FTBFS is due the multi-arched Python and I wonder if should disable the build of the python module which isn't packaged at all or fix the build nonetheless (I will mail the DD about it in any case)15:17
xnoxgeser: fix. it's easy, there are three ways to do it. wiki.debian.org/Python/MultiArch15:19
geserxnox: even if the module doesn't get included in any deb? (I've a patch ready as this way my first idea just to find out that no deb includes the module)15:20
xnoxgeser: I thought it is used, via gobject-interspection by utah for example.15:21
xnoxalthough it's python-libvirt which they use. so no idea.15:22
geserxnox: it would by the python module for libvirt-glib not libvirt itself15:26
desrtsmspillaz: so uh.... ya15:36
desrti have a patch15:37
desrtbut it will cause trouble with another set of compiler flags15:37
desrt(specifically, -pedantic)15:37
desrtturns out, gcc is a big stupid head15:38
desrtit warns that this code is not valid ISO C because _Static_assert is not available everywhere:15:39
desrt#if _GCC_ > 4.6.015:39
desrtseems like, pedantically speaking, GCC should not be defining _GNUC_ when using -pedantic... sigh.15:40
smspillazdesrt: well, we don't use -pedantic, but I can see how that would be a problem15:40
desrtya... i don't watch to push a patch that helps one user or a ridiculous set of flags while huring another user with a different ridiculous set of flags15:41
smspillazdesrt: well, I think in this case, you would do #if _GCC_ > 4.6.0 _Static_assert(....) #else // old behaviour #endif15:42
smspillazin that case, problem fixed for everyone not using -pedantic15:42
desrtyes.  that is what i'm doing.15:42
smspillazand then everyone who uses -pedantic gets the old behaviour15:42
desrtbut some people are using -pedantic15:42
desrtand, as of now, this works.15:42
smspillazdesrt: that being said, I think you might find that -pedantic doesn't even have the warning anyways15:42
desrtthe problem is that gcc still defines _GNUC_ to the proper version, even with -pedantic15:43
desrtsmspillaz: i just checked...15:43
desrtat least gcc 4.7 does15:43
smspillazdesrt: argh15:43
smspillazdoes it define anything else when you use -pendantic ?15:43
desrti don't want to play this kind of whack-a-mole15:44
smspillazneither do I :(15:44
desrtanyway... there are other issues too15:45
desrtsee the bug15:45
smspillazdesrt: yeah, just saw15:45
smspillazdesrt: well, we can just detect the compiler compiz-side and disable the warning15:45
smspillazmaybe in the release notes it might be worth putting something about gcc bone-headedness15:46
smspillazin slightly more diplomatic language15:46
pittido you actually release tarballs with -Werror?15:46
smspillazpitti: every build for all PS projects uses -Werror15:46
pittisome projects might want to use it for building from VCS, but for "make dist" it really shouldn't be on by default15:46
pittithat's a sure way to say "f*** you" for pretty much anybody packaging it15:46
smspillazpitti: that's a good point15:47
desrtpitti: or jhbuilders15:47
desrtwhich is the 'build from VCS' case, really15:47
smspillazpitti: maybe it might be worth turning it on in CI only now that we actually have a CI15:47
pittiin one of my projects I had some configure magic to flip some -Werror=.. stuff on or off depending on whether it was a release or git; if I could remember which one..15:47
pittidesrt: yeah, wouldn't help with that15:48
smspillazits a massive PITA for me locally too - having to do printf ("id: 0x%x\n", (unsigned int) window->id ()); is just annoying when Window is typedef unsigned long15:48
pittiFWIW, I fully agree that -Werror is not what most people want; gnome-common's set of -Werror=... is much more sensible15:48
pittiwell, that's the kind of type check which actually should be on15:48
smspillazpitti: do you have the relevant link to that ?15:49
pittibut e. g. turning deprecation warnings into errors is just wrong for releases15:49
smspillazpitti: right, we disable deprecation warnings at least15:49
pittismspillaz: ah, there: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/upower/tree/configure.ac#n11015:50
smspillazpitti: if you can grab a link to the gnome-common bit I'll post a message to unity-dev suggesting that we use those -Werror flags and only do it on CI builds15:50
smspillazpitti: great, thanks15:50
pittismspillaz: that's not gnome-common, that's "use -Werror when building from git"15:50
smspillazpitti: ah okay. Do you have the gnome-common link ?15:50
pittilast one I saw was https://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2012-November/msg00001.html15:51
desrtsmspillaz: uh...15:51
smspillazdesrt: uh ?15:52
desrtsmspillaz: you know that not doing that printf cast would break your code on x86_64, right?15:52
smspillazdesrt: its for debugging purposes only15:52
smspillazI never actually release code like that15:52
desrthow does gcc know that? :p15:52
smspillazdesrt: it bitches and won't compile my code, at least with its current compiler flags :)15:52
pittismspillaz: http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-common/tree/doc/usage.txt, but you probably don't want to depend on gnome-common itself for compiz?15:53
smspillazpitti: sure, just starting a discussion on which warnings we should turn into errors15:53
desrtpitti: fortunately, compiz has pluggable build systems15:53
desrthe can add this to the gnome-flavoured-automake backend15:53
smspillazdesrt: it actually used to15:53
smspillazno, really15:53
pittismspillaz: they are in http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-common/tree/macros2/gnome-compiler-flags.m415:53
smspillazyou used to be able to use either cmake or autoconf15:53
smspillazdesrt: I believe a lot of vodka was behind that decision15:54
pittimmm vodka15:54
desrtsmspillaz: that's how i feel about most of compiz :)15:54
smspillazI know a few former developers were borderline alcoholics15:54
smspillazdesrt: well, its helped and hindered in places15:55
smspillazdesrt: I think a large part of the reason why compiz got complicated fast was because it wanted to be the one window manager to rule them all15:55
smspillaza noble ambition, yet one that is basically impossible15:55
smspillazthings would be much better though if we just had one window manager15:56
smspillazhence the reason why I'm not going to "port" it to be a wayland compositor15:56
desrtwe do only have one window manager15:59
desrt(and its various forks)15:59
smspillazdesrt: when I said "we" I included everyone who develops on top of X1115:59
smspillaznot just gnome :)15:59
desrtokay.  one good window manager, then? :)16:00
smspillazdesrt: though, if I were to just include gnome, then I would think that the fact that you have people using libmutter is an achievement16:00
smspillazdesrt: well, I think the kwin and xmonad people would disagree :)16:00
desrtx is a dangerous and scary place16:01
desrtand i only know of one window manager that was written by havoc pennington and owen taylor :p16:01
smspillazI never understood why the desktop scene is much more heavily fragmented than everywhere else in linux16:01
desrtyou mean like the one unified webserver that we all use?16:02
desrtor how everyone agrees on scripting languages, shells and editors?16:02
smspillazwell, we all use the same kernel16:02
desrtyes... everyone using linux is using the same kernel16:02
desrt...except those who aren't (android)16:02
smspillazisn't android much closer to mainline these days ?16:02
desrtif you don't define yourself directly into that conclusion, however, you notice the various BSDs and solaris pretty quickly, though16:03
smspillazof course16:03
smspillazI guess what I meant was16:03
smspillazwhat frustrates me the most about of the linux ecosystem is that when fragmentation occurrs, it often results in duplication of effort on disproportionate scales16:04
desrtthe free software mantra: "anything worth doing is worth doing twice"16:04
smspillazexactly that16:04
smspillazI hate that16:04
desrtif ever there is only one of something it's because it's such a shitty job16:04
desrtlike samba :)16:04
desrti mean... thank god it exists...16:04
desrtbut i'm sure glad i didn't have to write it :p16:04
smspillazI think the entire fact that that we have to have specifications for window managers pretty much indicates how broken the entire process is16:05
smspillazbecause usually, the specification means "the implementation has to do X"16:05
desrti'll say again16:05
desrt11:01 < desrt> x is a dangerous and scary place16:05
smspillazdesrt: by "x" you are referring to X11 right ?16:06
smspillaz*sigh* yeah16:06
desrti think you'd agree that writing a window manager is a non-trivial affair :)16:06
smspillazyes, I'd agree16:06
desrtparticularly one that supports modern notions of (for example) focus stealing prevention16:06
smspillazditto reparenting16:06
smspillazditto compositing that isn't slow16:06
smspillazditto damage handling16:07
smspillazetc etc16:07
smspillazwhat I'd really like to see is one window manager which handles all of the client <-> WM stuff and then a means to inject policy into it16:08
smspillazI think libmutter is awesome, because its part of the way there16:08
desrtdamage isn't so bad16:11
desrtnon-slow compositing needs only a few tricks16:11
desrtbut ya... most of the other stuff sucks16:11
smspillazdesrt: don't forget stacking ;-)16:15
desrti consider that part of focus-stealing prevention16:15
desrtalthough they're two very different parts of the same beast, admittedly16:16
smspillazvery different16:16
desrtone is you deciding what to do and telling X16:16
desrtthe other is you trying to wrap your brain around the insanity that results from that (and any other random events that may occur at the same time)16:16
smspillazdesrt: and override redirect windows16:16
desrtthose are boring :)16:16
smspillazthe bane of my existence16:17
desrtthey're boring for a window manager16:17
desrtinteresting for a compositor16:17
desrtand confusing for a windowmanager/compositor16:17
smspillazand infuriating for a maintainer16:17
smspillazdesrt: btw, damage tracking becomes a lot more fun once you implement support for GLX_EXT_buffer_age16:18
desrtfair enough16:19
desrti never tried to mix GL with damage16:19
* desrt always XRendered16:19
desrt(and usually just via cairo, much less)16:19
smspillazdesrt: well, the main problem at least is that if you draw outside the damage region, you die16:20
desrtin classical systems you obviously get to be as sloppy as you want16:21
=== sil2100_ is now known as sil2100
notgaryWhen's there going to be a Raring PPA for the Canonical Qt5 Edgers team? Will we have to wait until April?17:47
Laneyhappy weekend!18:06
bcurtiswxchrisccoulson, are there any known issues right now with firefox 18 and the adobe flash plugin ?18:28
ogra_yeah, it still doesnt work on arm18:29
bcurtiswxogra_, lol, seems to crash on me, i used the flashplugin-installed but i also have icedtea-7-plugin installed. Is it possible they conflict ?18:29
ogra_shouldnt, no18:30
=== sabdfl__ is now known as sabdfl
ogra_flash and java are pretty separate i would think18:30
ogra_at least as browser plugins18:30
bcurtiswxogra_, right. Thanks18:32
ogra_does it stop crashing if you remove flash ?18:33
bcurtiswxogra_, ill try that. is it as simple as apt-get remove the flashplugin=installer or will i have to find the files and delete them ?18:35
ogra_i'd try apt-get purge flashplugin-installer18:35
bcurtiswxogra_, OK it doesn't see the plugin now18:40
ogra_and did it top crashing ?18:41
bcurtiswxyup, no crash18:41
bcurtiswxogra_, well no crash, YAY, but now after installed firefox doesn't see the plugin..18:42
ogra_did you restart the browser ?18:43
ogra_i think thats needed18:43
bcurtiswxogra_, yup i did18:43
bcurtiswxogra_, no flashplugin .so file in .mozilla/extensions18:46
bcurtiswxthat the right place to look?18:46
ogra_hmm, let me check ... i need to find an intel machine first18:46
* ogra_ is surrounded by arm only 18:47
ogra_there should be an alternative set in /usr/lib/mozilla/plugins/18:47
bcurtiswxogra_, yes, flashplugin-alternative.so -> /etc/alternatives/mozilla-flashplugin18:48
ogra_and that should point to /usr/lib/flashplugin-installer/libflashplayer.so18:49
bcurtiswxogra_, correct18:50
ogra_hmm, then it should just work, strange18:51
bcurtiswxogra_, the file install_plugin in there, gives me an error of cp: cannot stat ‘’: No such file or directory18:52
bcurtiswxif i try ot run it18:52
ogra_hmm, i never touched flashplugin-installer before, afaik it pulls the tarball from adobe and unpacks it ...18:53
bcurtiswxogra_, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1496516/18:54
bcurtiswxsmall file18:54
bcurtiswxseems it looks for an argument to be specified upon calling it, don't know why it's there, seems odd18:55
bcurtiswxthat argument seems to be the tarball18:56
ogra_yes, seems you can also use it manually to just install your own tarball if you want18:56
ogra_so i guess the wget that actually downloads it is in the preinst script of flashplugin-installer or so18:57
bcurtiswxogra_, i agree. I'll look into it more. thx for your time18:58
ogra_np :)18:58
bcurtiswxogra_, well i'll be it's a diff plugin, looking to open a pdf. is there an evince plugin or will i have to trudge through acroread ?19:16
ogra_evince is the default19:16
bcurtiswxogra_, any chance you'd add https://mail.gnome.org/archives/evince-list/2012-June/msg00012.html to ubuntu repos ?19:43
ogra_thats probably a better question for one from the desktop team19:45
bcurtiswxanyone then, ^^19:46
ogra_(you could file a whishlist bug ;) and assign to the desktop team)19:47
jbichabcurtiswx: I don't think we're that interested in including Evince 2 in Ubuntu19:53
bcurtiswxjbicha, u know why not ?19:54
jbichabecause we have Evince 319:54
jbichaand Firefox now has its own pdf plugin (which admittedly still needs work)19:54
bcurtiswxjbicha, you confused me there, so they didn't make the plugin for evince 3 im guessing then19:54
bcurtiswxwhat is the pdf plugin then ?19:55
jbicharight, Firefox is GTK2, current Evince is GTK319:55
jbichapdf.js, I believe it's enabled in Firefox 18 on Ubuntu19:57
jbichabcurtiswx: here's a dated comment but it's an interesting idea https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=633501#c420:00
ubot2Gnome bug 633501 in general "Bookshelf home screen" [Enhancement,New]20:00
bcurtiswxjbicha. so if i'm trying to view a bank statement for example, and it's an online PDF form, which the bank says they require adobe reader, should the native PDF in firefox be able to read it, or could it possibly only allow adobe reader?20:02
jbichabeats me, Evince works for most forms but I've not used pdf.js much yet20:04
micahgjbicha: if the evince plugin uses plugin-container, it should be able to use gtk320:04
bcurtiswxjbicha, OK thx20:04
micahgjbicha: actually, nevermind...20:05
notgaryIs anybody home?21:35
robrunotgary, I'll be around for a while yet21:35
notgaryI was wondering ...21:36
robruuh oh ;-)21:36
notgarySince there's a mentorship program for MOTU, and I've seen talking of reviving the mentorship program on the bug squads mailing list, is there any sort of mentoring program for the Desktop?21:36
notgaryi.e. The stuff the the desktop team do to look after the desktop CD21:37
notgaryI know a lot of it is along the same lines - packaging, bug triage, etc - but the packages are all different21:37
notgaryso I was wondering, if a community member wanted to get deeply involved with the Desktop team21:38
notgarywhat should they do?21:38
notgaryThat's all, nothing big ::P21:38
robrunotgary, well, in my case, the mentorship program was "Get hired by canonical; have jasoncwarner assign a couple desktoppers to get me up to speed on things"21:38
notgaryWhat kind of experience did you have before getting hired? Did you work on Ubuntu before, or was a lot of it new to you?21:39
robrunotgary, but generally the desktop team is quite friendly; we may not have formal membership, but if somebody was trying to learn, we are happy to answer questions.21:39
robrunotgary, I had experience with open source upstreams only, I had zero experience with ubuntu.21:39
robrunotgary, errr, meant to say "may not have formal mentorship", not membership21:40
notgaryIs there any sort of one stop shop for the list of things the the desktop team need to get done right now, that someone could just go in and pick things from to get started?21:41
robrunotgary, yes, that list definitely exists. let me see if I can remember where we keep it...21:42
robrunotgary, http://people.canonical.com/~platform/desktop/versions.html here you go. this is our auto-generated list of packages that need to get updated.21:42
robru(there's a legend at the bottom of the page explaining what the colors mean)21:42
robrunotgary, so basically ubuntu wiki has instructions on how to do packaging, pick a package and see about updating the package to the latest upstream ;-)21:44
notgaryDo we always try to update it in Debian first and then sync Ubuntu with that?21:45
robrunotgary, well yes, syncing with debian is always ideal. but debian is still in freeze so we don't wait around for them21:45
robru(debian has been in freeze for the entire time that canonical has employed me thus far... :-/21:46
notgaryFair enough :P21:46
notgaryWhen the Debian package gets updated and the next sync happens, is there any problem with the Ubuntu package being newer than the Debian version, or is that handled gracefully21:47
robrunotgary, I honestly don't know what happens when ubuntu's package is newer. ideally we should make some effort to push it to debian, but I'm not sure how much that actually happens really.21:56
notgaryrobru, Fair enough. I guess the etiquette is just to click the "Open Bug" link on the right and assign the bug to myself?21:58
robrunotgary, yeah, if you want to tackle a package, please open a bug and assign it to yourself so that nobody else duplicates the effort.21:58
robrunotgary, and if you run into trouble, don't hesitate to ask people. I'm sure mterry would be delighted to help you ;-)21:59
mterrynotgary, if our version is newer, it requires a manual merge, tracked by merges.ubuntu.com22:00
notgaryrobru, mterry, thanks both for your help. I really appreciate it. I'm sure I'll be back soon enough with more questions.22:03
notgaryAnyway, bye for now22:03
robrunotgary, you're welcome22:03
Guest9336I like Ubuntu23:50
Guest9336but I like more Ubuntu with gnome23:51

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