[00:01] <TheMuso> t/c
[05:01] <pitti> Good morning
[06:20] <didrocks> good morning
[09:03] <Laney> heya
[09:05] <chrisccoulson> hi Laney, how are you?
[09:05] <Laney> mmm, good thank you chrisccoulson!
[09:06] <Laney> finished the first season of the killing over the weekend ;-)
[09:06] <Laney> you?
[09:11] <seb128> hey Laney, chrisccoulson, desktopers
[09:11] <seb128> happy new year!
[09:12] <didrocks> hey Laney, chrisccoulson, seb128!
[09:13] <didrocks> happy new year seb128 :)
[09:13] <didrocks> how was your week-end Laney, chrisccoulson?
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> hey seb128, didrocks
[09:13] <chrisccoulson> happy new year seb128!
[09:13] <Laney> hey
[09:13] <Laney> seb128: good holidays?
[09:14] <seb128> Laney, excellent ones thanks! you?
[09:14] <Laney> yes, quite nice!
[09:15] <Laney> pretty cold on the top of snowdon on new years day https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/207748_10100602832248138_684192428_n.jpg :O
[09:40]  * Laney prods tkamppeter__ with bug #1096281
[09:40] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1096281 in cups (Ubuntu) "package libcups2 1.6.1-0ubuntu13 failed to install/upgrade: trying to overwrite '/etc/default/cups', which is also in package cups 1.6.1-0ubuntu13" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1096281
[09:40] <Laney> :>
[10:18] <pitti> bonjour seb128, bonne année!
[10:18] <pitti> seb128: as-tu eu des bonnes vacances?
[10:18] <seb128> pitti, salut, bonne année !
[10:18] <seb128> pitti, oui, très bonnes, et toi ?
[10:19] <pitti> oui, was nice to be back in Dresden to meet family and friends
[10:20] <seb128> did you get snow there?
[10:20] <seb128> or did you also get a not-so-wintery weather?
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: no, it was way too warm; up to 15 degrees, usually 6 to 10
[10:39] <pitti> seb128: we went to a christmas fair at http://www.festung-koenigstein.de/, where there was still some remaining snow on Dec 23
[10:40] <pitti> but then it all went away
[10:56] <seb128> pitti, same here, very weird winter
[11:01] <mlankhorst> oui, bonjour
[11:03] <Laney> hey mlankhorst, hoe gaat het?
[11:05] <mlankhorst> redelijk goed, met jou?
[11:08] <Laney> uitstekend, dank u. ontspannen :-)
[11:08]  * Laney screams GROLSCH and runs off to hide
[11:08] <Chipaca> hi guys. unity isn't starting for me, and if I start it from console it complains (“LLVM ERROR: Program used external function '' which could not be resolved!”). Halp?
[11:09]  * Chipaca reads somebody using the u-form on irc for the first time
[11:09] <mlankhorst> ah, so you found out about the secret tradition of the dutch screaming random beer names and running off, excellent
[11:11] <seb128> Chipaca, hey, not sure what's the issue is but it seems like your video card doesn't do 3d and it's trying to fallback to llvm rendering and hits and issue there ... maybe try asking on #ubuntu-x or #ubuntu-devel, it's a bit out of the desktop scope
[11:11] <Chipaca> seb128: fwiw it (unity) runs ok on a different user, which is why i'm asking here
[11:12] <Chipaca> note "runs ok" but still under llvm, which is a different question (why on earth?)
[11:12]  * Chipaca asks in ubuntu-x anyways
[11:22] <Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks, robert_ancell: may I humbly ask for you to add an endorsement to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BjoernMichaelsen/DeveloperApplication please?
[11:22] <seb128> Sweetshark, hey, happy new year! will do
[11:23] <didrocks> hey, happy new year Sweetshark! Sure, will do :)
[11:23] <Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks: happy new year everyone!
[11:24] <pitti> hey Sweetshark, gesundes Neues!
[11:27] <chrisccoulson> hmmm, starting to think that starting the day with 4 mugs of coffee was not such a great idea
[11:28] <chrisccoulson> infinity, any idea about https://launchpadlibrarian.net/127705642/buildlog_ubuntu-quantal-armel.firefox_18.0%2Bbuild1-0ubuntu0.12.10.1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz ? ;)
[11:33] <pitti> seb128: do you think we should enable apport crash reports to LP again, or rather use errors.u.c.?
[11:34] <seb128> pitti, did we get a way to ask for extra details on some bugs through e.u.c/whoopsie yet?
[11:34] <pitti> no, not yet
[11:34] <xnox> pitti: is that somehow related to apport no longer offering to open lp bug? /me got hit by this when users couldn't file an lp bug against ubiquity with all the logs collected.
[11:34] <seb128> well, that's just my opinion but I would keep reports to lp until we do
[11:34]  * xnox wants ubuntu-bug --really-file-to-lp
[11:35] <pitti> xnox: apport-bug pkgname should open an LP bug
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: right; but a few weeks ago you said "not now, before the holidays"
[11:35] <pitti> seb128: I wanted to confirm that now is a good time :)
[11:35] <xnox> pitti: ok. I'll try this in a sec in the livecd. Maybe it was user error on the other end of the conversation.
[11:36] <seb128> pitti, +1 to re-enable it, everybody should be back from holidays
[11:36] <pitti> xnox: you can locally change your /etc/apport/crashdb.conf
[11:36] <pitti> xnox: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-core-dev/ubuntu/raring/apport/ubuntu/revision/2144
[11:37] <pitti> seb128: next question, what's the plan wrt. glib 2.35.x?
[11:38] <seb128> pitti, I'm not up-to-date with what happened in GNOME during the holidays but plan was to get it uploaded in january and that still stands afaik
[11:39] <pitti> seb128: ok, perfect; thanks
[11:39] <seb128> pitti, I will start looking at that once I'm done with the post-holidays catching up
[11:39] <seb128> pitti, yw
[11:40] <seb128> pitti, if you or Laney want to have a try at the update please do, I'm just back today and I've quite some backlog and I'm travelling next week so I'm unsure if I will manage to squeeze that in-between
[11:41] <Laney> sure, i can look maybe on wednesday
[11:42] <seb128> Laney, thanks
[11:42] <mitya57> hi pitti, do you have any plans for testing gnome-keyring/libsecret stuff?
[11:42] <seb128> Laney, there is no hurry in any case
[11:42] <Laney> yeah
[11:42] <mitya57> if you are interested in that, it would be good to have a secret service template in python-dbusmock
[11:43] <pitti> seb128: ok, so now it's not a "we want to hold it back" blocker any more, just manpower?
[11:43] <mitya57> probably based on http://git.gnome.org/browse/libsecret/tree/libsecret/tests
[11:43] <seb128> pitti, right
[11:43] <pitti> mitya57: I don't currently have a WI for adding libsecret tests; I thought it already had quite a number of tests
[11:43] <Laney> there's https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=687659 which might have some impact
[11:43] <ubot2> Gnome bug 687659 in gobject "drop support for adding interfaces after class_init" [Normal,Reopened]
[11:43] <pitti> right, those
[11:44] <pitti> Laney: yeah, but that's rather a reason to land it early
[11:44] <Laney> quite
[11:44] <pitti> Laney: but it seems it's not that bad in practice, so far the only violation of that was in pygobject
[11:44] <Laney> is that fixed already?
[11:44] <pitti> mitya57: oh, you mean testing consumers of libsecret
[11:44] <Laney> i'm guessing so
[11:44] <pitti> Laney: yes, I fixed it two months ago
[11:45] <pitti> (it's in raring)
[11:45] <Laney> ok
[11:45] <mitya57> pitti: my personal interest is testing my python-secretstorage module
[11:45] <Laney> and the last comment on that bug about gjs
[11:45] <mitya57> pitti: ok, if you are not interested in that, I may try to write that template myself :)
[11:46] <Laney> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=688214 possibly fixes that
[11:46] <ubot2> Gnome bug 688214 in general "Don't use g_type_add_interface_static() dynamically" [Normal,Unconfirmed]
[11:46] <pitti> mitya57: oh, "not planned" != "not interested", it's mainly a capacity issue :)
[11:46] <mitya57> the same here (capacity issue) :)
[11:46] <pitti> mitya57: I mostly misunderstood what you asked; so you want/need a standard mock for keyring to test things like e-d-s or seahorse?
[11:47] <mitya57> pitti: yes, I need something that mimics secret service daemon behaviour
[11:49] <mitya57> pitti: btw I'm slowly adding dep-8 tests to various python modules: yesterday Piotr finally uploaded my pygments tests, next on my list are python3-defaults and nose
[11:50] <pitti> oh, great!
[11:50] <pitti> I saw a few on https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/view/Raring/view/AutoPkgTest/ already
[11:50] <pitti> unfortunately numpy fails on amd64
[11:51] <mitya57> numpy was not mine
[11:51] <mitya57> is there a bug for that failure somewhere?
[11:52] <Laney> I wish jenkins would present its artifacts with the correct content-type
[11:53] <pitti> mitya57: I didn't file one yet, no; apparently it started failing over the holidays
[11:54] <mitya57> "last success: unknown" — it was always failing
[11:56] <Sweetshark> seb128, didrocks: Oh, if you want to add endorsements to the application, please do today as the DMB meeting is at 1900UTC.
[12:03] <didrocks> Sweetshark: oh, it will be quite short, but yeah, will try to do it after lunch break
[12:06] <Sweetshark> didrocks: np, just having more voices helps.
[12:07] <didrocks> sure :)
[12:30] <cyphermox> good morning!
[12:32] <didrocks> hey cyphermox!
[12:32] <didrocks> had a good week-end?
[12:34] <cyphermox> yup yup
[12:34] <cyphermox> and you?
[12:34] <didrocks> was good, despite the bad weather :)
[12:35] <cyphermox> great
[12:37] <didrocks> time for some exercice, will be back later :)
[12:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128, did you have a good holiday then? sorry, been busy this morning (firefox release week) ;)
[12:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, hey, I had excellent holidays thanks! what about you?
[12:46] <chrisccoulson> seb128, yeah, it turned out ok, despite a bad start ;)
[12:47] <chrisccoulson> (flu, and then our refrigerator died a couple of days before christmas)
[12:47] <seb128> because of the cold/flu you got?
[12:47] <seb128> oh
[12:47] <chrisccoulson> we managed to salvage the christmas food by filling it with ice, and got a replacement on christmas eve, which was lucky :)
[12:47] <seb128> good
[12:49] <xnox> chrisccoulson: sounds about similar to my whole family this christmas driving the last mile to the petrol station on the highway with fuel indicator saying we only have 4 miles of petrol left.
[12:49] <xnox> we got a slightly more lucky escape.
[12:50] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's brave :)
[12:50] <chrisccoulson> i don't think i'd trust my fuel gauge that much ;)
[12:50] <xnox> we got carried away, forgot that we need to fill up & made a small 1h detour to stop by a skiing slope.
[12:51] <xnox> yeah, we were already thinking we will have to collectively push the car through snow to the petrol station.
[13:58]  * Laney is going to upload a parallel installable telepathy-farstream-0.4 so that we can sync 0.6 and move empathy to gstreamer 1.0
[13:58] <Laney> (if the tests pan out)
[13:59] <kenvandine> Laney, yay!
[14:00] <Laney> after lunch ;-)
[14:00] <Laney> brb
[14:01] <seb128> kenvandine, hey, happy new year!
[14:02] <kenvandine> hey seb128
[14:02] <kenvandine> happy new year!
[14:02] <kenvandine> seb128, have a good holiday?
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, excellent, thanks
[14:02] <seb128> kenvandine, what about you?
[14:03] <kenvandine> yup!
[14:03] <kenvandine> very nice
[14:03] <kenvandine> long... :-D
[14:03] <seb128> did you manage to stay away from computers?
[14:03] <kenvandine> i did... even avoid email
[14:03] <kenvandine> for a whole week after we got back from the cruise
[14:04] <kenvandine> the cruise was a good way to get forced offline... easier to stay off than it is to go offline :)
[14:04] <seb128> ;-)
[14:04] <jcastro> wow, kenvandine is here!
[14:04] <seb128> it feels weird getting back to "normal" flow :p
[14:05] <kenvandine> hey jcastro!
[14:05] <jcastro> it feels weird seeing everyone around
[14:05] <kenvandine> hehe
[14:05] <kenvandine> indeed
[14:05] <seb128> I managed to not read email or anything for almost 3 weeks
[14:05] <kenvandine> jcastro, i was here last week... :)
[14:05] <ogra_> slackers ... you were supposed to play a lot of steam games during the holidays, not stay off !!!
[14:05] <kenvandine> ogra_, haha :)
[14:05] <seb128> the ubuntu phone news/videos are pretty exiting
[14:05] <seb128> exciting
[14:05] <kenvandine> indeed
[14:05] <jcastro> I spent waaay too much money on steam, hah
[14:05] <kenvandine> i am looking forward to the ces coverage this week
[14:05] <seb128> jcastro, ogra_: hey, had good holidays? happy new year!
[14:06] <ogra_> yeah, sick cat towards the end that didnt make it so noce, but she's fine again now
[14:06] <ogra_> *nice
[14:06] <ogra_> and as jorge i spent too much money for games ;)
[14:08] <seb128> what games did you guys play?
[14:08] <jcastro> I bought every linux one
[14:08] <seb128> I'm not sure my intel card is good enough to play steam games
[14:08] <jcastro> and then ended up resurrecting an old windows box to play more.
[14:08] <seb128> I tend to play on the ps3 nowadays rather
[14:08] <ogra_> lol
[14:09] <jcastro> seb128: yeah, a bunch of people I know had that problem, the work linux machine was for work, now that's for play everyone wants new hardware.
[14:09] <ogra_> jcastro, i think that somewhat defeats the purpose
[14:09]  * ogra_ bought like 10 games, havent finished a single one yet 
[14:09] <jcastro> ogra_: I helped prime the economics, once they have more strategy games I'll be all set.
[14:09] <kenvandine> jcastro, wow...
[14:10] <kenvandine> isn't there like 41 now ?
[14:10]  * ogra_ wants more of the blockbusters ported 
[14:10] <jcastro> they are smart, they put like everything on sale
[14:19] <mlankhorst> I could probably justify getting a nice shiny expensive kepler though :P
[14:19] <mlankhorst> but then no nouveau dev would care for fermi any more
[14:27] <ogra_> mlankhorst, my radeon 6990 thats 30% cheaper than my GTX660 totally smarts out the nvidia
[14:27] <mlankhorst> aye :P
[14:27] <mlankhorst> I have some hacks to make things a lot faster
[14:27] <ogra_> in gaming at least ... sadly multiscreen support in fglrx is a lot worse than twinview
[14:27] <mlankhorst> oh you use fglrx? come on
[14:28] <ogra_> for gaming ?
[14:28] <ogra_> sure i do
[14:28] <mlankhorst> r600 vs nouveau is a lot more interesting, but with a few fixes tf2 can go a lot faster >:D
[14:28] <ogra_> you actually play steam stuff under nouveau ?
[14:29] <mlankhorst> sure
[14:29] <mlankhorst> 2560x1440 and it's near 60 fps, so why not?
[14:29]  * ogra_ wonders if that would cope with 5760x1920
[14:29] <mlankhorst> disclaimer, I use a crazy hack to reclock memory
[14:29] <ogra_> ha!
[14:30] <mlankhorst> c: core 700MHz shader 1401MHz memory 135MHz voltage 988mV
[14:30] <mlankhorst> not doable!
[14:30] <ogra_> can you still hear game sounds through the fan noise ?
[14:30] <mlankhorst> c: core 700MHz shader 1401MHz memory 1848MHz voltage 988mV
[14:31] <mlankhorst> magic!
[14:31] <mlankhorst> sure can
[15:01] <dobey> ogra_: what kind of setup gives you that resolution?
[15:03] <ogra_> dobey, triplehead ... 3x full HD
[15:03] <ogra_> oh, its 5760x1080, sorry, typ
[15:03] <ogra_> o
[15:03] <dobey> ah ok
[15:18] <czajkowski> dobey: before christmas you were looking for SD cards did you get them ?
[15:19] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[15:19] <pitti> hello tkamppeter
[15:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have a problem with the CUPS package. As you know I have split cups in cups and cups-daemon and needed to add --name=cups to the dh_installinit call.
[15:23] <dobey> czajkowski: no. i haven't found any in the US for cheap yet.
[15:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, I have completely overlooked that dh_installinit also treats /etc/default/cups and therefore I did not rename debian/cups.default, ending up with /etc/default/cups being taken by the first binary package in the list, which is libcups2. Thiis accidental movement of a file breaks the update path, as usually first the new package witrh the file is installed and then the old package with the file is removed.
[15:24] <dobey> czajkowski: and i haven't designed the thing i had an idea to use them for yet either. :)
[15:24] <dobey> czajkowski: thanks though
[15:24] <tkamppeter> pitti, now I am completely stuck and do no know how to get it fixed.
[15:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: default files work just like init files -- i. e. if you name it debian/cups-daemon.cups.default, dh_installinit --name=cups will pick it up along with the .init file
[15:26] <tkamppeter> pitti, first, I will need to rename debian/cups.default to debian/cups-daemon.cups.default to assign /etc/default cups to cups-daemon.
[15:26] <pitti> tkamppeter: you'll need a debian/libcups2.maintscripts for removing the bad conffile on upgrade, though
[15:27] <tkamppeter> pitti, what does the debian/libcups2.maintscripts have to contain? Do I also need debian/cups.maintscripts as originally /etc/default/cups was in cups and now it should go to cups-daemon?
[15:28] <pitti> tkamppeter: sorry, debian/libcups2.maintscript, see man dh_installdeb; it needs to have something like "rm_conffile /etc/default/cups 1.6.1-0ubuntu15~"
[15:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: right, you'll need it in cups as well
[15:29] <pitti> tkamppeter: although the "accidental" movement seems to have been done automatically by dpkg; it didn't complain, anyway
[15:30] <pitti> but "dpkg -s cups" shows a ton of obsolete conffiles
[15:30] <pitti> presumably they all moved to cups-daemon
[15:42] <tkamppeter> pitti, if a conffile modified by the user exists, and it gets moved from one binary package to another, and then one adds the debian/<oldpackage>.maintscript, does the conffile get preserved or does it get replaced by the default conffile of the new package?
[15:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: rm_conffile will remove unchanged ones and keep changed ones
[15:45] <pitti> tkamppeter: ah, actually not, it renames it to .bak; please see dpkg-maintscript-helper
[15:46] <pitti> tkamppeter: probably better to use mv_conffile, but I haven't tested this for moving between packages
[15:49] <tkamppeter> pitti, do I also need Breaks/Conflicts/Replaces somewhere?
[15:50] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'm never fully sure about that for conffiles, as they are magic; but it can't hurt to add a Replaces: at least
[15:54] <tkamppeter> pitti, how long has the .maintscripts file to stay in the package?
[15:57] <pitti> tkamppeter: until after the next LTS (and Debian) release
[16:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, I will try it.
[16:29] <pitti> bonne nuit
[16:33] <Sweetshark> Laney: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/Agenda says DMB meeting today, http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendars/ says DMB meeting next week.
[16:34] <mlankhorst> the solution is more meetings!
[16:35] <Sweetshark> mlankhorst: and adding a layer of abstraction. they always help.
[16:35] <Sweetshark> (except when the goal is 'reduce abstraction layers')
[16:36] <mlankhorst> even then it helps!
[16:36] <mlankhorst> you're simply not thinking abstract enough
[16:36] <mlankhorst> some abstractions for abstraction layers are needed in that case
[16:37] <Sweetshark> mlankhorst: true. one can surely use metaprogramming: a metaclass abstractionlayer is needed.
[16:37] <Laney> today is right
[17:26] <infinity> chrisccoulson: Yeah, they've regressed to producing armv7 assembly unconditionally again, and quantal/armel was armv5.
[17:27] <infinity> chrisccoulson: If you check the debdiff between 17 and 18 and search for the offending file, you can see they completely refactored all of that, and failed to refactor the cpu level detection bits.