=== Lexmazter|brb is now known as Lexmazter
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=== limikael_ is now known as limikael
AlanBellI think the phone would be really really attractive if it didn't come with a phone number13:40
AlanBellSIP or AIX as the preferred means of transport13:40
AlanBellso you get the phone, it doesn't require a cooperative carrier to sell it, the thing is unlocked and simless13:41
AlanBellyou get a data only SIM for the country of your choice and connect it to your asterisk or other telephone server, or a public SIP provider like sipgate13:42
AlanBelland the setup wizard goes through that process.13:42
AlanBellso no roaming, you just get a PAYG data sim for the country you are going to13:42
gacwould require mobile companies to "wake up" a little though, as you'd still need to go through one to get your data, no doubt they'd want to fleece you unrealistically for the data you used13:42
AlanBellit is just a data sim, for a dongle13:43
AlanBellif you connect to a wifi in starbucks you have no data charge, just the bill from the sip provider13:43
AlanBellit rings as an extension on your corporate PBX13:43
AlanBellin the office it rings over wifi on your corporate PBX13:44
AlanBellbattery life would be stressed a bit13:44
AlanBellSMS might be tricky to sort out13:45
AlanBell911/112/999 calls would have to go over the network but they get carried anyway wherever you are over any network13:45
AlanBellit means Canonical could partner with a SIP endpoint to subsidise it/do contracts rather than unfriendly carriers13:46
AlanBelland it would kick ass as a corporate phone13:47
AlanBellyou can do sip on android, but it isn't the default integrated dialer13:47
jo-erlend<AlanBell> I think the phone would be really really attractive if it didn't come with a phone number <--- Hell yes! Phone numbers should've disappeared after WW2.13:55
jo-erlendAdd PSTN as a plugin. Perhaps some people would finally understand how insanely old-fashioned that is. :)13:58
gaci've never played with SIP, just signed up for a sipgate account though, something to tinker with...13:58
AlanBellit would probably make the phone/desktop/TV integration make more sense too13:59
AlanBellif you can move your phone number around super-easy13:59
jo-erlendThe problem with SIP is usually NAT, I think. Which in turn, is caused by the continuing use of IPv4. It would've been nice if non-IPv4 was part of the 4G spec.13:59
jo-erlendAlanBell, yes, there are numerous benefits. Everything becomes much easier when you can drop support for outdated technologies.14:01
jo-erlendI think, for now, it's probably a little too radical for many companies though.14:02
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AlanBellwell maybe, but it would be a big differentiator, and this is for 201414:22
AlanBelland it does an end run around the carriers14:22
AlanBellthey still get money for doing their bit, but they can't control the market so much14:23
ScrivenerSo. Dat launcher.14:54
Takdata-only would mean that only hypernerds would buy it15:00
ScrivenerSo is there any reason why a finger has to remain on the screen at all times to select an item from the launcher?15:01
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ScrivenerSeems like the most sensible way to handle it is let them flick it out, flick up/down to scroll, and the launcher will close when they 1) touch anywhere else on the screen, 2) flick it back to the left, or 3) select an app.15:02
ScrivenerThe whole dragging your finger across the surface sure looks clunky.15:02
ScrivenerBut I think this is something a lot of people brought up… hope it gets an update :)15:02
mhall119Scrivener: flicking all the way out actually opens the dash15:24
mhall119think of it like th Super key15:24
ScrivenerOh does it?15:24
mhall119press and hold for the launcher, tab/swipe for the whole days15:24
ScrivenerHmm… how would they take care of the dragging-finger problem, then?15:24
mhall119the what?15:24
ScrivenerI mean, who would use that launcher if you have to do that? It's quite clumsy.15:24
ScrivenerLike if you pull out the launcher, you have to hold your finger to the screen while you slide to an app.15:25
mhall119yeah, I haven't tried it myself, so I don't know what it's actually like15:25
ScrivenerI'm not the only one that commented that it looks quite aggravating.15:25
ScrivenerBut hey, if by default it takes me to recently used apps in the Dash anyways, I guess that would just function as my launcher.15:25
mhall119but I would imagine that after a short time you'd reflexivly remember where on the side the app is, so you don't need to scroll, or not as much15:25
mhall119kind of like how I reflexively remember that super+2 is my email, and super+4 is my editor15:26
ScrivenerStill, I'd like to be able to release my finger from the surface. The way it is, it basically takes two hands to select an app.15:26
ScrivenerYeah, memory isn't really the issue.15:26
ScrivenerIt's more about how easy it is to use one thumb to complete actions.15:26
mhall119I'd have to try it before I can judge15:27
mhall119I felt the same way about Unity originally, until I gave it a chance, now I can't go back15:28
ScrivenerYeah, I guess so. I do have a GNex, so once the images are released I plan to.15:28
mhall119I've been eying them on ebay and craigslist15:28
ScrivenerHeh -- I disliked Unity in 11.04/11.10 editions, but in 12.04 I caved to the elegance of it.15:28
AlanBellTak: it would do calls, but via SIP15:28
ScrivenerAnd yeah, I love it now, too.15:28
ScrivenerIt definitely appeals to me as a keyboard user.15:28
AlanBellyou don't buy your number as a component of the phone15:28
TakAlanBell: IME mainstream adoption of the nokia internet tablets and the openmoko phones was greatly hampered by nonexistent or reduced (standard) telephony capability, even though both sets of devices were capable of SIP15:32
popeythe openmoko had no 3g.. which doesn't help15:37
bobweaverwhat good keywords are there for Ubuntu SDk  ? like tags15:46
mhall119bobweaver: what do you mean?15:49
bobweavermhall119,  I have a video that I just put up like 5 seconds ago and was wondering about tags to try to spread the word15:49
bobweaverI was also thinking about doing a couple simple app tutorials and havin good keywords(metawords or whatever you want to call them) could be a good thing :)15:51
bobweavermhall119,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqW021vrTqg15:52
bobweavercrashy crahsy though due to some theming bugs15:52
mhall119bobweaver: looking good16:01
bobweavereh just messing around16:02
AlanBellpopey: is that maliit on the phone?18:56
mhall119mallets on phones sounds dangerous19:02
mhall119Scrivener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE-QPsATAS0 looks like you can lift your finger from the launcher afterall19:16
ScrivenerWhy did no one else do that?19:17
ScrivenerMaybe this was in one of those "nightly builds" that Shuttleworth was saying they had.19:17
ScrivenerAt the start of CES.19:18
ScrivenerOne they weren't showcasing yet.19:18
GuidoPallemans1are there any good qml forums/irc channels?19:50
GuidoPallemans1for developers19:50
user82lol@john ces. like in 2004 it was the plan to make a smartphone os20:33
user82video looks like john needs some more sleep at ces20:38
user82uhm yes..i guess i was totaly baked..uhm baconed i meant20:41
mhall119user82: given that he's a new father, he's probably getting more sleep at CES than he was at home20:48
user82mhall119 that might be true. but he was a little puzzled in the video..at least i felt so20:49
user82he did not have ta "talk flow" as in his live sessions with a new product he should already know a lot about20:49
mhall119user82: welcome to my life ;)20:53
IdleOneit is easy to armchair quarterback20:54
IdleOneI won the superbowl 17 years in a row doing that20:54
popeyuser82: it's live video and he's not a marketer, I'd cut him some slack20:55
mhall119IdleOne: lol20:58
mhall119I actually liked jono's video, I think it was one of the better ones to come out so far20:59
IdleOnepopey: said it a little better than I :)20:59
mhall119he certainly handled the phone well, nothing was awkward or unintentional20:59
user82IdleOne sorry was away21:03
user82IdleOne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE-QPsATAS021:04
user82mhall119 was diggin it up21:04
user82popey did not say he did it bad..but usually he talks a whole lot smoother given any random live question21:04
mhall119user82: he's usually the on in control of the camera and in the comfort of his own home too21:05
user82yep true mhall119 ... with a guitar as company :D21:06
IdleOneah I see. he mentioned they started with the desktop in 2004 and you assumed that meant the phone os was already in the plans.21:06
user82sounded to me like that21:07
IdleOnewell you heard it wrong.21:07
user82non native to english...ok then21:07
IdleOneIn that case I can forgive you :)21:08
mhall119user82: I'd say the guitar is comforting, but I'm not really into his style of music21:09
user82mhall119 i must admit i usualy turned it off at the end21:09
IdleOnewe have florian's phoe number also now21:10
user82does that thing even have a phone app :D21:11
user82(they never really showed it off did they)21:11
IdleOneit does21:11
GuidoPallemans1it even has a game21:12
IdleOnebut like he said most people don't use the phone as a phone21:12
GuidoPallemans1the native app it has is the gallery app21:12
GuidoPallemans1typical qml with ubuntu components21:12
mhall119user82: the dialer interface is shown in several videos, it's about what you'd expect from a dialing interface21:13
popeyit does make calls21:13
user82okay thanks for telling me21:13
user82not that i would use ubuntu phone for phoning ^^21:13
user82dualsim would be useful..but i guess that is not too common21:13
popeywhy do people use dualsim?21:16
IdleOneI think that video shows off the phone os beautifully21:16
popeyyeah, it's one of the better ones, more relaxed21:16
IdleOnethe swipes seemed to me to be more slow and deliberate then in other videos.21:17
user82popey save money21:22
user82best internet deal here best phone deal there21:22
popeywhat country?21:23
GuidoPallemans1If you slide from the right on the welcome screen, what happens? do you go back to the last-used app?21:23
IdleOnethat would seem logical to me21:24
IdleOnebut I don't know21:24
user82popey germany21:24
user82i have "sponsored surf" free internet and my old number everybody knows...no coomitment to the cheap other phone company21:25
mhall119GuidoPallemans1: it seems to, yes21:27
sergiusenspopey: dual sim is good for when you get a corporate number from a company and also have a personal number, at least I wouldn't of been carrying two phones around :-)22:59
Ryan45oh, it doesnt do phone calls23:08
Transhumanist<popey> why do people use dualsim?23:39
TranshumanistIf Ubuntu is to be successfull in non-Western countries it MUST do dual-sim smoothly23:39
TranshumanistEspecially for the Indian population.23:39
TranshumanistI don't know the exact reasons, but their sociopolitical situation seems to make it a necessity to have a dual-SIM phone over there.23:40
k1l_or its quite common to have 2 girlfriends down there :)23:40
TranshumanistMaybe, but I doubt it. Dual-SIM phones are extremely popular in other countries with vastly different cultures, such as China.23:43
chriadamit's not sociopolitical, it's socioeconomic.  firstly, some carriers do calls for cheap, while others do sms for cheap.  it's more cost effective to have a couple of sims for that usecase.  secondly, in India especially, devices are often shared between multiple people (eg, family), and in those situations, using multiple sims is useful (can separate usage, can separate contacts, etc)23:46
TranshumanistYes, that's a better term.23:47
Ryan45Some places use thier phones as thier banking23:49
Ryan45A big chunk of the developing world is using phone usage as currency23:49
TranshumanistCan you elaborate? Do you mean netbank?23:50
TranshumanistI don't see how multiple SIMs help you netbank.23:50
Ryan45you buy 20 min of talk time for $1, you want to transfer the money to someone else, they text another regional phone owner that you have 20 min and a family member can cash it out23:52
Ryan45some areas are served by one or two providers23:52
Ryan45or more23:52
Ryan45but the area you want to transfer the money to is used by only one of the two23:52
Transhumanistwait, you can convert unused talk time into actual currency (e.g. rupees)?23:53
Ryan45yes, thats how they transfer money, this is mostly in africa23:53
Ryan45they dont have banks23:54
Ryan45one guy in the village gets a phone23:54
Ryan45you buy some minutes from him and a family member in another area can cash them out23:54
TranshumanistThat's kind of beautiful.23:54
Ryan45As someoneelse stated I think it's also possible that some areas "religious" leadership simply encourage people to be more sneaky23:58

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