[00:02] <dank101> hi
[00:04] <ubuntubhoy> ello
[13:40] <AlanBell> I think the phone would be really really attractive if it didn't come with a phone number
[13:40] <AlanBell> SIP or AIX as the preferred means of transport
[13:41] <AlanBell> so you get the phone, it doesn't require a cooperative carrier to sell it, the thing is unlocked and simless
[13:42] <AlanBell> you get a data only SIM for the country of your choice and connect it to your asterisk or other telephone server, or a public SIP provider like sipgate
[13:42] <AlanBell> and the setup wizard goes through that process.
[13:42] <AlanBell> so no roaming, you just get a PAYG data sim for the country you are going to
[13:42] <gac> would require mobile companies to "wake up" a little though, as you'd still need to go through one to get your data, no doubt they'd want to fleece you unrealistically for the data you used
[13:43] <AlanBell> it is just a data sim, for a dongle
[13:43] <AlanBell> if you connect to a wifi in starbucks you have no data charge, just the bill from the sip provider
[13:43] <AlanBell> it rings as an extension on your corporate PBX
[13:44] <AlanBell> in the office it rings over wifi on your corporate PBX
[13:44] <AlanBell> battery life would be stressed a bit
[13:45] <AlanBell> SMS might be tricky to sort out
[13:45] <AlanBell> 911/112/999 calls would have to go over the network but they get carried anyway wherever you are over any network
[13:46] <AlanBell> it means Canonical could partner with a SIP endpoint to subsidise it/do contracts rather than unfriendly carriers
[13:47] <AlanBell> and it would kick ass as a corporate phone
[13:47] <AlanBell> you can do sip on android, but it isn't the default integrated dialer
 I think the phone would be really really attractive if it didn't come with a phone number <--- Hell yes! Phone numbers should've disappeared after WW2.
[13:58] <jo-erlend> Add PSTN as a plugin. Perhaps some people would finally understand how insanely old-fashioned that is. :)
[13:58] <gac> i've never played with SIP, just signed up for a sipgate account though, something to tinker with...
[13:59] <AlanBell> it would probably make the phone/desktop/TV integration make more sense too
[13:59] <AlanBell> if you can move your phone number around super-easy
[13:59] <jo-erlend> The problem with SIP is usually NAT, I think. Which in turn, is caused by the continuing use of IPv4. It would've been nice if non-IPv4 was part of the 4G spec.
[14:01] <jo-erlend> AlanBell, yes, there are numerous benefits. Everything becomes much easier when you can drop support for outdated technologies.
[14:02] <jo-erlend> I think, for now, it's probably a little too radical for many companies though.
[14:22] <AlanBell> well maybe, but it would be a big differentiator, and this is for 2014
[14:22] <AlanBell> and it does an end run around the carriers
[14:23] <AlanBell> they still get money for doing their bit, but they can't control the market so much
[14:54] <Scrivener> So. Dat launcher.
[15:00] <Tak> data-only would mean that only hypernerds would buy it
[15:01] <Scrivener> So is there any reason why a finger has to remain on the screen at all times to select an item from the launcher?
[15:01] <Scrivener> Hmmm.
[15:02] <Scrivener> Seems like the most sensible way to handle it is let them flick it out, flick up/down to scroll, and the launcher will close when they 1) touch anywhere else on the screen, 2) flick it back to the left, or 3) select an app.
[15:02] <Scrivener> The whole dragging your finger across the surface sure looks clunky.
[15:02] <Scrivener> But I think this is something a lot of people brought up… hope it gets an update :)
[15:24] <mhall119> Scrivener: flicking all the way out actually opens the dash
[15:24] <mhall119> think of it like th Super key
[15:24] <Scrivener> Oh does it?
[15:24] <mhall119> press and hold for the launcher, tab/swipe for the whole days
[15:24] <mhall119> dash
[15:24] <Scrivener> Hmm… how would they take care of the dragging-finger problem, then?
[15:24] <mhall119> the what?
[15:24] <Scrivener> I mean, who would use that launcher if you have to do that? It's quite clumsy.
[15:25] <Scrivener> Like if you pull out the launcher, you have to hold your finger to the screen while you slide to an app.
[15:25] <mhall119> yeah, I haven't tried it myself, so I don't know what it's actually like
[15:25] <Scrivener> I'm not the only one that commented that it looks quite aggravating.
[15:25] <Scrivener> But hey, if by default it takes me to recently used apps in the Dash anyways, I guess that would just function as my launcher.
[15:25] <mhall119> but I would imagine that after a short time you'd reflexivly remember where on the side the app is, so you don't need to scroll, or not as much
[15:26] <mhall119> kind of like how I reflexively remember that super+2 is my email, and super+4 is my editor
[15:26] <Scrivener> Still, I'd like to be able to release my finger from the surface. The way it is, it basically takes two hands to select an app.
[15:26] <Scrivener> Yeah, memory isn't really the issue.
[15:26] <Scrivener> It's more about how easy it is to use one thumb to complete actions.
[15:27] <mhall119> I'd have to try it before I can judge
[15:28] <mhall119> I felt the same way about Unity originally, until I gave it a chance, now I can't go back
[15:28] <Scrivener> Yeah, I guess so. I do have a GNex, so once the images are released I plan to.
[15:28] <mhall119> I've been eying them on ebay and craigslist
[15:28] <Scrivener> Heh -- I disliked Unity in 11.04/11.10 editions, but in 12.04 I caved to the elegance of it.
[15:28] <AlanBell> Tak: it would do calls, but via SIP
[15:28] <Scrivener> And yeah, I love it now, too.
[15:28] <Scrivener> It definitely appeals to me as a keyboard user.
[15:28] <AlanBell> you don't buy your number as a component of the phone
[15:32] <Tak> AlanBell: IME mainstream adoption of the nokia internet tablets and the openmoko phones was greatly hampered by nonexistent or reduced (standard) telephony capability, even though both sets of devices were capable of SIP
[15:37] <popey> the openmoko had no 3g.. which doesn't help
[15:46] <bobweaver> what good keywords are there for Ubuntu SDk  ? like tags
[15:49] <mhall119> bobweaver: what do you mean?
[15:49] <bobweaver> mhall119,  I have a video that I just put up like 5 seconds ago and was wondering about tags to try to spread the word
[15:51] <bobweaver> I was also thinking about doing a couple simple app tutorials and havin good keywords(metawords or whatever you want to call them) could be a good thing :)
[15:52] <bobweaver> mhall119,  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqW021vrTqg
[15:52] <bobweaver> crashy crahsy though due to some theming bugs
[16:01] <mhall119> bobweaver: looking good
[16:02] <bobweaver> eh just messing around
[18:56] <AlanBell> popey: is that maliit on the phone?
[19:02] <mhall119> mallets on phones sounds dangerous
[19:16] <mhall119> Scrivener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE-QPsATAS0 looks like you can lift your finger from the launcher afterall
[19:17] <Scrivener> Whoah..
[19:17] <Scrivener> Why did no one else do that?
[19:17] <Scrivener> Maybe this was in one of those "nightly builds" that Shuttleworth was saying they had.
[19:18] <Scrivener> At the start of CES.
[19:18] <Scrivener> One they weren't showcasing yet.
[19:23] <mhall119> maybe
[19:50] <GuidoPallemans1> are there any good qml forums/irc channels?
[19:50] <GuidoPallemans1> for developers
[20:33] <user82> lol@john ces. like in 2004 it was the plan to make a smartphone os
[20:38] <user82> video looks like john needs some more sleep at ces
[20:39] <popey> jono
[20:41] <user82> uhm yes..i guess i was totaly baked..uhm baconed i meant
[20:48] <mhall119> user82: given that he's a new father, he's probably getting more sleep at CES than he was at home
[20:49] <user82> mhall119 that might be true. but he was a little puzzled in the video..at least i felt so
[20:49] <user82> he did not have ta "talk flow" as in his live sessions with a new product he should already know a lot about
[20:51] <IdleOne> link?
[20:53] <mhall119> user82: welcome to my life ;)
[20:54] <IdleOne> it is easy to armchair quarterback
[20:54] <IdleOne> I won the superbowl 17 years in a row doing that
[20:55] <popey> user82: it's live video and he's not a marketer, I'd cut him some slack
[20:58] <mhall119> IdleOne: lol
[20:59] <mhall119> I actually liked jono's video, I think it was one of the better ones to come out so far
[20:59] <IdleOne> popey: said it a little better than I :)
[20:59] <mhall119> he certainly handled the phone well, nothing was awkward or unintentional
[21:03] <user82> IdleOne sorry was away
[21:04] <user82> IdleOne https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE-QPsATAS0
[21:04] <user82> mhall119 was diggin it up
[21:04] <user82> popey did not say he did it bad..but usually he talks a whole lot smoother given any random live question
[21:05] <mhall119> user82: he's usually the on in control of the camera and in the comfort of his own home too
[21:06] <user82> yep true mhall119 ... with a guitar as company :D
[21:06] <IdleOne> ah I see. he mentioned they started with the desktop in 2004 and you assumed that meant the phone os was already in the plans.
[21:07] <user82> sounded to me like that
[21:07] <IdleOne> well you heard it wrong.
[21:07] <user82> non native to english...ok then
[21:08] <IdleOne> In that case I can forgive you :)
[21:09] <mhall119> user82: I'd say the guitar is comforting, but I'm not really into his style of music
[21:09] <user82> mhall119 i must admit i usualy turned it off at the end
[21:10] <IdleOne> we have florian's phoe number also now
[21:10] <IdleOne> phone*
[21:11] <user82> does that thing even have a phone app :D
[21:11] <user82> (they never really showed it off did they)
[21:11] <IdleOne> it does
[21:12] <GuidoPallemans1> it even has a game
[21:12] <IdleOne> but like he said most people don't use the phone as a phone
[21:12] <GuidoPallemans1> the native app it has is the gallery app
[21:12] <GuidoPallemans1> typical qml with ubuntu components
[21:13] <mhall119> user82: the dialer interface is shown in several videos, it's about what you'd expect from a dialing interface
[21:13] <popey> it does make calls
[21:13] <user82> okay thanks for telling me
[21:13] <user82> not that i would use ubuntu phone for phoning ^^
[21:13] <user82> dualsim would be useful..but i guess that is not too common
[21:16] <popey> why do people use dualsim?
[21:16] <IdleOne> I think that video shows off the phone os beautifully
[21:16] <popey> yeah, it's one of the better ones, more relaxed
[21:17] <IdleOne> the swipes seemed to me to be more slow and deliberate then in other videos.
[21:22] <user82> popey save money
[21:22] <user82> best internet deal here best phone deal there
[21:23] <popey> what country?
[21:23] <GuidoPallemans1> If you slide from the right on the welcome screen, what happens? do you go back to the last-used app?
[21:24] <IdleOne> that would seem logical to me
[21:24] <IdleOne> but I don't know
[21:24] <user82> popey germany
[21:25] <user82> i have "sponsored surf" free internet and my old number everybody knows...no coomitment to the cheap other phone company
[21:27] <mhall119> GuidoPallemans1: it seems to, yes
[22:59] <sergiusens> popey: dual sim is good for when you get a corporate number from a company and also have a personal number, at least I wouldn't of been carrying two phones around :-)
[23:08] <Ryan45> oh, it doesnt do phone calls
 why do people use dualsim?
[23:39] <Transhumanist> If Ubuntu is to be successfull in non-Western countries it MUST do dual-sim smoothly
[23:39] <Transhumanist> Especially for the Indian population.
[23:40] <Transhumanist> I don't know the exact reasons, but their sociopolitical situation seems to make it a necessity to have a dual-SIM phone over there.
[23:40] <k1l_> or its quite common to have 2 girlfriends down there :)
[23:43] <Transhumanist> Maybe, but I doubt it. Dual-SIM phones are extremely popular in other countries with vastly different cultures, such as China.
[23:44] <Transhumanist> http://www.smh.com.au/business/dualsim-brings-roamer-home-20120725-22qqb.html
[23:46] <chriadam> it's not sociopolitical, it's socioeconomic.  firstly, some carriers do calls for cheap, while others do sms for cheap.  it's more cost effective to have a couple of sims for that usecase.  secondly, in India especially, devices are often shared between multiple people (eg, family), and in those situations, using multiple sims is useful (can separate usage, can separate contacts, etc)
[23:47] <Transhumanist> Yes, that's a better term.
[23:49] <Ryan45> Some places use thier phones as thier banking
[23:49] <Ryan45> A big chunk of the developing world is using phone usage as currency
[23:50] <Transhumanist> Can you elaborate? Do you mean netbank?
[23:50] <Ryan45> sure
[23:50] <Transhumanist> I don't see how multiple SIMs help you netbank.
[23:51] <Ryan45> ok
[23:52] <Ryan45> you buy 20 min of talk time for $1, you want to transfer the money to someone else, they text another regional phone owner that you have 20 min and a family member can cash it out
[23:52] <Ryan45> some areas are served by one or two providers
[23:52] <Ryan45> or more
[23:52] <Ryan45> but the area you want to transfer the money to is used by only one of the two
[23:53] <Transhumanist> wait, you can convert unused talk time into actual currency (e.g. rupees)?
[23:53] <Ryan45> yes, thats how they transfer money, this is mostly in africa
[23:54] <Ryan45> they dont have banks
[23:54] <Transhumanist> Interesting.
[23:54] <Ryan45> one guy in the village gets a phone
[23:54] <Ryan45> you buy some minutes from him and a family member in another area can cash them out
[23:54] <Transhumanist> That's kind of beautiful.
[23:58] <Ryan45> As someoneelse stated I think it's also possible that some areas "religious" leadership simply encourage people to be more sneaky