[05:36] <brittyazel> hey guys
[05:36] <brittyazel> are we planning for gnome 3.8 for 13.04?
[05:38] <darkxst> brittyazel, it will likely be via the ppa
[05:38] <darkxst> since ubuntu is holding back on many packages
[05:46] <brittyazel> oh ok
[05:46] <brittyazel> that is fine though
[05:46] <brittyazel> is there a way we can bundle that ppa by default with our iso?
[05:47] <brittyazel> it seems like much of the distro and it's updated gnome packages rely on that ppa rather than just what is in the main repos
[05:47] <darkxst> brittyazel, most things are already in gnome3-team/staging if you like to break things
[05:47] <brittyazel> lol no i'll probably hold off
[05:47] <darkxst> I think at this stage we will stick with the official packages for the iso
[05:47] <brittyazel> I'm hesitant to upgrade my work machine to 13.04 alpha to help hunt bugs, though the 3.8 kernel that landed today is tempting to say the least
[05:49] <brittyazel> gotcha.
[05:49] <darkxst> and we do push all our bug fixes into the main repos, its just where there is a version split we need to use the ppa
[05:49] <brittyazel> man that is unfortunate that we share so many packages with standard ubuntu. It means we have to constantly tiptoe around them :-/
[05:50] <brittyazel> yeah I get it. Derivatives like kubuntu have it a bit easier because they can have all of their own packages in the repos without conflict
[05:50] <darkxst> yeh
[05:51] <brittyazel> Is there any particular reason that we do not include the gnome3-ppa by default? It seems like it makes it harder, though I dont know all of the internal details
[05:52] <darkxst> basically comes down not being able to include ppa's in an official derivate (not that we are quite there yet, but still)
[05:54] <brittyazel> oh that's an odd requirement....especially for a distro like ours in which having all of our necessary applications in the main repos would mess with ubuntu
[05:55] <brittyazel> we could do something super sneaky and have our own version of gnome packages in the main repos but with a different naming convention and different dependency table so as to separate ourselves. But that would be SUPER hard to maintain
[05:55] <darkxst> no, that won't happen
[05:56] <brittyazel> I figured as much. It would be an insane amount of work and would probably be way more effort than it is worth
[05:56] <darkxst> the main pain points (such as gnome-control-center) are getting fixed, but now ubuntu has dropped a cycle behind
[05:57] <brittyazel> too bad ubuntu doesn't brand all of the gnome libraries and packages that they use as "ubuntuunity" or something. Then we could have the same scenario as the other derivitaves
[05:57] <darkxst> but that would be pointless
[05:58] <brittyazel> yeah I noticed that. Actually i'm intrigued on where ubuntu is headed actually. Ubuntu Phone is largly written in QML/Qt, and they want a unified interface. Though their main desktop is GTK....
[05:58] <darkxst> U1 is not GTK
[05:58] <brittyazel> yeah but isn't that the only qt app that ubuntu has in it's native stack?
[05:58] <darkxst> software centre as well probably
[05:58] <brittyazel> they killed the qt version of unity.
[05:58] <brittyazel> no software centre is gtk+
[05:59] <darkxst> yeh with so many custom/ugly widgets who could guess
[06:00] <brittyazel> lol I know. I'm actually kind of for ubuntu adopting QML and Qt and migrating away from gnome/compiz. I think it would make a better end user experience, but that is just me.
[06:00] <brittyazel> It seem like Gnome is moving one direction and Unity is moving another
[06:00] <brittyazel> and there's only so many post-hoc patches that can be applied
[06:06] <darkxst> apperently not, some packages have 30+ patches
[06:06] <darkxst> g-c-c at one point was I believe closer to 100
[06:07] <darkxst> probably ~60 now
[06:07] <brittyazel> lol yeah but that is 30-100 patches to an already dated package. I mean they could just stay at 3.4/.6 forever and just patch the living hell out of it, but that seems illogical
[06:08] <darkxst> yeh and many bugs are caused by mismatched versions
[06:08] <brittyazel> and it seems like they built a decent phone UI already...I wonder if we will ever see that on the desktop
[06:08] <darkxst> I would estimate around ~60-70% of bugs I have worked on have either been due to ubuntu packaging or patches
[06:08] <brittyazel> do you know at all what changes the phoneOS is going to bring to the Desktop? Are they going to merge the two projects at all
[06:09] <brittyazel> wow that is crazy
[06:10] <darkxst> I think its just the same packages, but they are working to improve performance and power consumption of mobile devices
[06:10] <darkxst> luckily I dont have a nexus 7 otherwise I would probably try and port gnome-shell
[06:11] <darkxst> or something stupid like that
[06:11] <brittyazel> I dont think the phone UI is running compiz though. It looked way to stable and nice to be compiz (if that is too harsh) lol
[06:11] <brittyazel> haha
[06:11] <darkxst> could be, its running proprietry binary blobs for 3D
[06:11] <brittyazel> for gnome3 to want to be on touch screens so badly, i've never actually seen it on a touch screen lol
[06:12] <brittyazel> yeah but, maybe i'm just ignorant, but I've never known compiz to have nearly half of the features needed for a touch ui with edge detection and whatnot
[06:12] <darkxst> that was never a design critieria (despite the rumours)
[06:13] <darkxst> those features are not compiz!
[06:13] <brittyazel> for which? Gnome?
[06:13] <darkxst> yeh gnome-shell
[06:14] <darkxst> edge detection etc, is in Xorg/Xfixes
[06:14] <brittyazel> I know they never said it, but much of the ui is moving from menu-based to sliding switches and buttons. Seems very touch-ish. Which is completely fine
[06:14] <darkxst> unrealted to the WM
[06:14] <brittyazel> gotcha gotcha. So they just have compiz set to trigger events based on xinputs?
[06:15] <darkxst> well compiz hooks into events triggered by X
[06:16] <darkxst> maybe they have taken elements from touch UI's, but they are not desiging for touch devices
[06:18] <brittyazel> i see
[06:19] <brittyazel> I know they aren't purely focusing on touch-ui's (like windows 8 *cough*), but you can tell it is definitely in their thoughts, especially with the xinput2.2 stuff being implemented next round
[06:19] <brittyazel> though I am under the belief that there is a median interface that works for desktop ui's and touch, and that Gnome-Shell has found it lol
[06:19] <brittyazel> so I applaud them
[06:21] <darkxst> yeh, I can't use anything else anymore.
[06:21] <darkxst> everything else just seems wrong
[06:23] <brittyazel> I definiely love it. I still love kde and appreciate it's applications, detail, and complexity. But gnome-shell is next-gen. I just dont get why people flack it so hard
[06:23] <darkxst> lol, cuase it don't look like gnome2!
[06:24] <brittyazel> lol they hate it because it has taste and style
[06:24] <brittyazel> I never understood the desire to punnish ones self with ugly ui's lol
[06:25] <brittyazel> one's guys aregument to me was that "it is impossible to be productive on gnome-shell" and when I countered that I am in fact VERY productive on it he said "nuh uh, you obviously dont do "real" work"
[06:26] <darkxst> well I suppose there are a few points. 1.lack of customisation (but there are extension/themes/tweak-tool for that).
[06:26] <darkxst> 2. people hate change
[06:26] <brittyazel> It is crappy that most UI changes need to come from third party tools
[06:26] <brittyazel> you get spoiled on KDE where every little detail is giving a gui tool
[06:27] <darkxst> 3. it was really released a bit early (3.0 was really a super early alpha)
[06:27] <brittyazel> yeah I agree with that
[06:27] <darkxst> tweak-tool is just a wrapper to gsettings
[06:28] <brittyazel> I guess given those 3 you can be disatsfied with it, but it is fervently hated lol
[06:28] <darkxst> Oh I'm sure ther are more
[06:29] <brittyazel> lol
[06:29] <darkxst> also the big point, is IMO the dissatisfied users are always the loudest
[06:29] <darkxst> how many people write blogs posts just to hate on a project
[06:30] <darkxst> vs how many who love a project
[06:30] <brittyazel> well 3.6 made gnome-shell great for me personally :-) I love the new gdm and notifications. I wish 3.8 was just for bringing UI customization options. Then I would be in heaven
[06:31] <brittyazel> yeah it's true. So many vocal haters. And it scared people off who research stuff before hand (even though it is free and can only cost them time to try it themselves)
[06:34] <brittyazel> I wish I knew more about packaging and the behind-the-scenes work so I could help you guys
[06:34] <brittyazel> unfortunately I would probably be more of a burden
[06:37] <darkxst> heaps of good stuff have landed in 3.7/8 already
[06:37] <darkxst> especially amazing considering how early in the cycle it is
[06:38] <brittyazel> I read it was just changes to the control-center like a privacy setting list and a search option list
[06:38] <brittyazel> is there anything else substantial?
[06:39] <darkxst> relayout of overview search
[06:41] <darkxst> ricotz, did you build gjs in a deb? if so can I grab a debdiff?
[06:42] <brittyazel> is 3.8 getting xinput2.2 and gstreamer1.0 do you know?
[06:42] <darkxst> my jhbuild is still hosed
[06:42] <darkxst> brittyazel, niether of those are gnome-shell things, more distro stuff
[06:43] <darkxst> gsteamer1.0 was already support in 3.6 i think
[06:43] <brittyazel> I gotcha. I thought that there were gnome elements that depended on those
[06:43] <darkxst> g-s shel has been ported to xi2 already
[06:44] <brittyazel> kk
[06:45] <darkxst> the new pressure/pointer barriers should be landing in Xorg 1.14
[06:45] <brittyazel> is 13.04 getting 1.14?
[06:45] <brittyazel> btw it's pretty nice that they set the gtk flags for wayland recently
[06:46] <brittyazel> that should make it nice for wayland in the future
[06:47] <darkxst> I think its planned (Xorg 1.14), but ricotz or jbicha would likely know more
[06:47] <darkxst> wayland is still some way off
[06:47] <brittyazel> yeah a far way off
[06:49] <ricotz> darkxst, a debdiff? what are you trying?
[06:50] <darkxst> ricotz, or just the source packages. Just want to try install it locally
[06:51] <darkxst> I figured you probably already done that, so no point re-inventing the wheel
[06:51] <ricotz> i see
[06:52] <ricotz> you need to rebuild its rdepends too though
[06:52] <darkxst> ricotz, yeh  I realise that
[06:53] <ricotz> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ricotz/gjs/
[06:54] <darkxst> ricotz, thx
[07:40] <ricotz> darkxst, i guess you havent tested your patches with g-s then yet?
[09:08] <darkxst> ricotz, yes I have, but I have that unrelated "focus issue" :(
[09:13] <darkxst> ricotz, gnome-shell doesnt want to build either ;( http://paste.ubuntu.com/1519355/
[10:49] <ricotz> darkxst, amd64 with nvidia blob?
[10:54] <darkxst> ricotz, yeh
[10:56] <darkxst> ricotz, I take it you have seen the seg faults on GC?
[11:02] <darkxst> ricotz, particularly this, http://pastebin.com/GxKtpXCW surely that can't be right ;(
[11:17] <ricotz> darkxst, yeah seeing those, but i asked because of the g-s deb packages
[11:17] <ricotz> uploaded them to the folder too
[11:17] <darkxst> ricotz, I just removed the gtk-docs line from the .install file
[11:18] <ricotz> yeah, you probably missing a build-dep
[11:21] <darkxst> ricotz, I tried to rerun 'apt-get build-dep gnome-shell' but it didnt think I needed anythin
[11:25] <ricotz> darkxst, gtk-doc-tools
[11:26] <darkxst> ricotz, thats installed
[11:27] <ricotz> you have checked the debian/control build-deps?
[11:27] <ricotz> anyway, you got around it
[11:30] <darkxst> yeh
[11:38] <darkxst> anyway I should sleep, and then tomorrow I will find a sledgehammer or something to coerce gdb into behaving!
[22:19] <darkxst> ricotz, http://pastebin.com/8N2L3QpY
[22:31] <ricotz> darkxst, will try it