| mesquka | Hi | 06:08 |
|---|---|---|
| === chriadam is now known as chriadam|away | ||
| mesquka | when can we expect ROM's for this? | 07:54 |
| popey | mesquka: you know the answer to that question already | 08:03 |
| mesquka | ??? | 08:10 |
| mesquka | not disclosed? | 08:11 |
| Walther | mesquka: see the topic | 08:15 |
| mesquka | ok | 08:15 |
| mesquka | Thanks | 08:16 |
| mesquka | Hi | 10:57 |
| aquarius | dpm, if I'm creating a phone app, how do I know how big to make the window? | 13:31 |
| aquarius | dpm, that is: imagine I want to have, for example, 6 Rectangles in a Row which is the width of the screen. I can use units.gu, but I don't know how big a screen is in gu | 13:32 |
| aquarius | so I'm a bit confused by how the units stuff helps | 13:33 |
| dpm | aquarius, it seems you're not the only one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/qml-toolkit/+bug/1096341. You can get the conversion from gu to pixels from http://developer.ubuntu.com/api/ubuntu-12.10/qml/mobile/resolution-independence.html - if that does not help, I'd suggest pinging bzoltan, as he's way more knowledgeable than me on this subject | 13:38 |
| ubot5 | Launchpad bug 1096341 in Ubuntu UI Toolkit "GU image size advice is wrong" [Undecided,New] | 13:38 |
| aquarius | dpm, heh. I read the stuff about resolution independence, indeed. I'll talk to zoltan :) | 13:39 |
| dpm | ok, cool. I'll see if I can get someone from the SDK team to be on the public channel | 13:40 |
| aquarius | wise | 13:42 |
| aquarius | hey bzoltan1 :) | 13:42 |
| bzoltan1 | aquarius: hello there | 13:42 |
| aquarius | so, units.gu. i don't get it :) | 13:42 |
| * popey listens also | 13:43 | |
| * popey pokes AlanBell | 13:43 | |
| AlanBell | hi aquarius | 14:10 |
| aquarius | heya AlanBell | 14:10 |
| AlanBell | units.gu needs more of a justification for it's existence doesn't it | 14:11 |
| AlanBell | "The grid unit defines a visual rhythm in Ubuntu" I think that visual rhythm is what it is about | 14:13 |
| AlanBell | rather than any kind of resolution independence (which it doesn't achieve) | 14:14 |
| user82 | maybe this had been asked a thousand times: but are there any official announcements which phone the images will work on? or rumors esecially for nexus 4? | 14:30 |
| Tak | it has, and the only phone that's been used for demos has been the galaxy nexus | 14:34 |
| user82 | thanks Tak | 14:35 |
| user82 | i kinda need a new phone now..but do not want to end up with one that does not support ubuntu later. i think nexus 4 is a "save" choice? | 14:35 |
| * Tak shrug | 14:35 | |
| popey | user82: don't make a buying decision based on anything you see here ☺ | 14:46 |
| popey | user82: anything could happen in the next half hour | 14:46 |
| popey | s/half hour/few months/ | 14:46 |
| user82 | yep popey i know. | 14:47 |
| aquarius | AlanBell, agreed that it is abotu visual rhythm, not really resolution independence. | 14:55 |
| aquarius | anyway, what happens is this: the phone will override any width/height set on the root element. | 14:55 |
| aquarius | so, if you want your app to be sized right, then explicitly set width/height on the root element, and then calculate other sizes based on that, and it'll just owrk on the phone. | 14:56 |
| aquarius | ideally for most apps we won't need explicit sizing anyway; should use anchors for as much as possble, because they're brilliant and this is what they're for :) | 14:56 |
| AlanBell | aquarius: there is also rotation, and my understanding from zoltan's reply is that bit is not fully baked yet | 15:02 |
| aquarius | right, but rotation isn't actually a thing. It's just a different size screen. :) | 15:03 |
| AlanBell | nope, it is an event | 15:03 |
| AlanBell | it could be more than the screen size dynamically changing | 15:03 |
| aquarius | right, if you want your app to work differently when rotated, indeed | 15:05 |
| aquarius | I personally never, ever, ever, ever want that, but I understand that some people do :) | 15:05 |
| aquarius | and I can't really think of why you'd want rotation to do something to your app's layout that you wouldn't *also* do if your app finds itself in a wider-than-tall window anyway | 15:07 |
| aquarius | which is why I don't think rotation is a thing | 15:08 |
| AlanBell | it might not be a thing | 15:08 |
| aquarius | (note: that's different from "reading the accelerometer settings" for things like driving games where you tilt the phone to steer round corners) | 15:08 |
| aquarius | in my opinion, if your app creates itself a desktop window which is, say, 320x480, and I resize that window to 480x320, then it should do the very same identical thing as it would if it were on a phone and you rotated the phone to landscape rather than portrait | 15:09 |
| AlanBell | possibly, yes | 15:09 |
| aquarius | the point is not "it rotated", the point is "the screen size changed" :) | 15:09 |
| mhall119 | good morning folks | 15:36 |
| popey | morning mhall119 | 15:46 |
| netcurli | will Ubuntu for Phones use pulseaudio and will I be able to use that directly from a qml/c++ app? | 16:33 |
| atiti | aquarius, I think the screen ratio is more important then the screen size change | 16:54 |
| atiti | so going from 320x480 => 480x320 you change the aspect ratio and that you could assume is due to rotation | 16:55 |
| mhall119 | netcurli: too early to tell, I think | 16:55 |
| aquarius | atiti, perhaps, yeah, but I think the important point from my perspective is: what does your app do if I run it on the desktop and change its window size? If it makes sense to change the layout if the window is landscape-ish, then cool, do that. So I agree that what you generally care about is the aspect ratio of the screen rather than its actual pixel size | 16:56 |
| atiti | hehe well for a desktop its a bit different | 16:57 |
| atiti | i dont think i would want my say gnome-terminal to rotate when i resize it to a "tall" aspect ratio :p | 16:57 |
| aquarius | heh :) | 17:27 |
| aquarius | mhall119, if I've written a QML app using the Ubuntu sdk, what should I do with it? that is: are people just saying "here is a bzr branch" for the moment? or are people making debs and ppas and stuff? | 17:28 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: just branches or tarball atm, I think | 17:35 |
| aquarius | cool. First app done, then :) | 17:35 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: and posting about it on the Ubuntu App Developers community on G+ | 17:35 |
| mhall119 | \o/ | 17:35 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: is it your U1DB-backed notes app? | 17:36 |
| aquarius | mhall119, nope; I won't release that until we've got proper u1db bindings rather than my hacky Python prototype | 17:36 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: oh, QML data components backed by U1DB would be cool | 17:37 |
| aquarius | agreed :) | 17:38 |
| aquarius | but we need the base QML bindings in first | 17:38 |
| aquarius | and then my notes app should Just Work :) | 17:38 |
| mhall119 | QML bindings or Qt bindings? | 17:38 |
| donttrustem | Anyone have any info on the power consumption | 17:38 |
| aquarius | I suspect we'll get both | 17:38 |
| mhall119 | donttrustem: nope | 17:38 |
| aquarius | that is: I imagine the sdk team will make qt bindings and then make the qml ones on top | 17:38 |
| aquarius | but that's not up to me, that's up to bzoltan ;) | 17:39 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: yeah, I think that's how it works | 17:39 |
| donttrustem | Hmm! So it could die after an hour :) | 17:39 |
| mhall119 | donttrustem: or it could last for months without a recharge | 17:39 |
| donttrustem | Please | 17:39 |
| mhall119 | sorry, I thought we were all exaggerating | 17:40 |
| mhall119 | donttrustem: It's safe to say that when it's available from an OEM, it'll have battery life that is comparable to other phones on the market | 17:40 |
| bzoltan | aquarius: Yes, in a way it is up to me :) | 17:40 |
| donttrustem | K | 17:41 |
| bzoltan | aquarius: It will happen, sooner or later. It is on our backlogs and I just hope that we will have time to do it soon. | 17:41 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: are there C++ bindings for U1DB? | 17:41 |
| aquarius | not yet. There are C bindings, though. | 17:41 |
| aquarius | I suspect bzoltan's team will make c++qt bindings, but I don't know :) | 17:42 |
| bzoltan | donttrustem: I have been involved in the nokia N900-N950-N9 and I can tell you that reliable power consumption figures comes out at the very end of the development. | 17:42 |
| donttrustem | Ok | 17:43 |
| bzoltan | donttrustem: and the reason is very simple. Either there are way too many R&D tools, processes, loggers, tracers on the development release that all measurement is pointless or the set of services and pre-started processes are not frozen because of the negotiations with OEMs. But I can tell you that there is no such technology used in the Ubuntu Phone what would make the final product power consumption less efficient than any ot | 17:47 |
| aquarius | mhall119, should I post this little app on G+ in the app dev community as "discussion" or "app showcase"? I don't know if "app showcase" is just to show off random apps or whether it's designed for the actual app dev competitions | 17:49 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: app showcase | 17:51 |
| mhall119 | it's just for showing off | 17:51 |
| aquarius | posted. | 17:52 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: dude, that's an awesome game | 17:56 |
| mhall119 | need controls for slowing it down though...I wasn't able to keep up | 17:57 |
| mhall119 | but maybe that's just me | 17:57 |
| aquarius | nah. It could *be* a bit more awesome, given time. My distinct lack of design skills do not help :) | 17:57 |
| aquarius | ha! change "interval: 1500" to "interval: 2000" or something in the qml ;) I had it at 2000 and set it down a bit. | 17:57 |
| * mhall119 goes to read the source | 17:57 | |
| * aquarius pushes a change to set the interval back to 2000 again | 17:59 | |
| mhall119 | aquarius: that's seriously only 500 lines of code? | 18:01 |
| aquarius | I love qml. :) | 18:01 |
| aquarius | 21k of code; 300K of music; 900K of word list ;-) | 18:02 |
| GuidoPallemans | what g+ app dev community? | 18:03 |
| mhall119 | GuidoPallemans: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/111350780270925540549 | 18:03 |
| GuidoPallemans | thanks! | 18:03 |
| mhall119 | np | 18:03 |
| aquarius | something I would like in the Ubuntu Components (a thing for bzoltan, this): a way for a QML app to get at /usr/share/dict/words or some similar thing :) Otherwise every pure QML app that cares about words needs to ship its own 1MB word dictionary. | 18:04 |
| aquarius | a Dictionary{ language: "en" } component would be very nice. | 18:04 |
| bzoltan | aquarius: QML kind of dislikes file system IO stuff | 18:05 |
| aquarius | bzoltan, indeed, which is why I'd like a component around which will do it and be a standard part of the toolkit. I packed an entire dictionary into JavaScript so I had access to a word list ;) | 18:06 |
| bzoltan | at least not directly .. but yes, we can figure out some smart binding to access data like this | 18:06 |
| aquarius | WordList rather than Dictionary, perhaps | 18:06 |
| bzoltan | aquarius: good idea | 18:06 |
| aquarius | but that'd be cool -- it makes things like Scrabble games much easier | 18:07 |
| bzoltan | aquarius: Keep them coming :) | 18:07 |
| mclane- | hi | 18:33 |
| mhall119 | aquarius: file a wishlist bug | 18:36 |
| mhall119 | so we can keep track of these things | 18:36 |
| popey | i hope by sharing a room with aquarius some of his coding skill rubs off on me | 18:41 |
| popey | that is not a euphamism | 18:41 |
| AlanBell | bzoltan: does it run orca for accessibility or something else? | 19:12 |
| mhall119 | AlanBell: does orca run? | 19:19 |
| AlanBell | well it might do in theory, there is a Qt accessibility bridge it should be inspectable | 19:21 |
| AlanBell | and if this is really running Ubuntu then it should have speech dispatcher and espeak | 19:22 |
| AlanBell | might need a QML user interface for orca, or it could just run without a UI | 19:22 |
| mhall119 | AlanBell: I've still never been able to get orca running decently, even on desktops | 19:22 |
| AlanBell | whut | 19:23 |
| AlanBell | normally just turn it on and it starts talking | 19:23 |
| AlanBell | unity is a steaming pile of silence most of the time, but anything that is more gnomeish should work | 19:24 |
| AlanBell | gtkish I mean | 19:24 |
| AlanBell | the dash occasionally speaks categories, rarely speaks icons and never speaks the lens list. launcher and quicklists are OK. | 19:24 |
| AlanBell | most of the testing and bug reporting I have done has been around ubiquity, getting the thing installed | 19:32 |
| === rsalveti_ is now known as rsalveti | ||
| donttrustem | I have just been looking the ubuntu phone video and noticed that the phone being demonstrated has an edge connector on the side of it. I have a nexus s will this work | 21:06 |
| popey | donttrustem: which demo? | 21:07 |
| popey | the phone used in the Ubuntu for Phones demo is a Galaxy Nexus | 21:07 |
| donttrustem | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone | 21:07 |
| donttrustem | I have a Samsung google nexus s | 21:08 |
| donttrustem | Will ubuntu run on this | 21:08 |
| mclane- | i dont think so | 21:11 |
| mclane- | the minimum system requirements is cortex-A9 as I know | 21:11 |
| mclane- | nexus S has an A8 | 21:12 |
| donttrustem | Really ..... Let me check | 21:12 |
| mclane- | sorry, it says entry level | 21:13 |
| donttrustem | It is an A8 | 21:13 |
| donttrustem | So it will not run ubuntu? | 21:14 |
| donttrustem | Strange they look exactly the same | 21:17 |
| donttrustem | Only difference is the CPU | 21:17 |
| k1l_ | donttrustem: the newest nexus4 looks the same, too. that is the point of the newer nexus devices. but the actual dev phone is a galaxy nexus | 21:22 |
| donttrustem | I understand .... Going to see if I can get one off eBay | 21:23 |
| mesquka | haha | 21:24 |
| HackinBlack | So when are the phones suppose to come out | 21:24 |
| HackinBlack | Earth to anyone | 21:25 |
| mesquka | hi | 21:27 |
| k1l_ | HackinBlack: no phnes announced yet. dont know if there will be devices to ship ubuntu-phone in 2013 | 21:27 |
| mesquka | a developement image will come out but about late February, but it won't really start shipping until 2014 | 21:28 |
| Scrivener | Ubuntu Phone got a hardcore i-Fan friend of mine giggling with excitement. :) | 21:33 |
| donttrustem | I am sure someone will get it to run on the google nexus s | 21:33 |
| Scrivener | Just at the concept of unifying computing. | 21:33 |
| Scrivener | People at the Ubuntu booths have said we should see handsets later this year... | 21:34 |
| Scrivener | I guess that at least means announcements of them. | 21:34 |
| Scrivener | They say they can't talk about what OEM conversations might be like atm. | 21:34 |
| disharmonic | I'm really curious about what display server it uses tbh | 21:34 |
| AlanBell | aquarius: one rotation related thing an app might do is say "I don't make sense in landscape, never rotate me" | 23:06 |
| AlanBell | or vice versa | 23:07 |
| aquarius | AlanBell, indeed. But that's a whole-app setting. | 23:07 |
| aquarius | indeed, I saw something somewhere suggesting that Ubuntu Phone would by default be portrait, not rotate. But I may have misinterpreted it, and I can't remember where I saw it :0 | 23:07 |
| AlanBell | mailing list in reply to my question :) | 23:08 |
| ubuntubhoy | would that be just the launcher though ? | 23:08 |
| ubuntubhoy | games etc need landscape | 23:08 |
| ubuntubhoy | as well as camera apps | 23:08 |
| AlanBell | well aquarius's letter drop thing needs portrait | 23:08 |
| aquarius | not sure I agree on the camera app. | 23:08 |
| ubuntubhoy | why ? | 23:09 |
| aquarius | agreed on games -- some games make much more sense landscape. | 23:09 |
| AlanBell | videos must be shot vertical at all times \o/ | 23:09 |
| AlanBell | vvs | 23:09 |
| aquarius | the camera just shows what it's pointed at. I mean, an actual physical camera can be turned through 90 degrees and take a picture, but its "UI" doesn't change when you do that. | 23:10 |
| AlanBell | so you might have an "I am always landscape" app and an "I am always portrait" app in the switcher at the same time | 23:10 |
| ubuntubhoy | I see no issue with that AlanBell | 23:10 |
| popey | exif should indicate the rotation | 23:10 |
| popey | so viewers can orientate it correctly later | 23:10 |
| ubuntubhoy | aquarius: but you use a phone camera in a dif manner than a physical camera | 23:10 |
| aquarius | popey, of course -- that's "an app reads the accelerometer", which is obviously something we want. | 23:10 |
| AlanBell | I see no issue with it either ubuntubhoy, except you have two apps with a different coordinate system | 23:11 |
| ubuntubhoy | and on switch it changes | 23:11 |
| aquarius | it is not at all clear to me what happens if the phone is rotated because you're running a landscape app and you want to summon the launcher. *Presumably* you'll still pull from the long edge of the screen, even if that long edge is actually at the "bottom" now because you've rotated the phone. | 23:11 |
| aquarius | the N9 was inconsistent and very, very annnoying on this particular point. | 23:11 |
| ubuntubhoy | if the icons rotate, but the edge stays the same, that would probably be ok | 23:12 |
| ubuntubhoy | not take too much getting used to | 23:12 |
| aquarius | dunno. I shall be interested to see what's supposed to happen in that case :) | 23:12 |
| AlanBell | this is stuff that needs to be designed in *early* | 23:13 |
| ubuntubhoy | that I agree with | 23:13 |
| aquarius | I'd be surprised if no-one's thought about it; I just don't know what the thoughts *are* :) | 23:13 |
| ubuntubhoy | set the standard and stick with it | 23:13 |
| AlanBell | whether or not rotation is transparent to apps (they just see a window resize) or they get a rotation event and have to transform themselves but 0,0 in the coordinate space stays in the same place on the physical device | 23:14 |
| AlanBell | it is fine if "no, we don't do landscape, at all, ever, it is a design thing" is the answer | 23:15 |
| ubuntubhoy | then when designing a landscape app, you compensate for where on device 0,0 is | 23:15 |
| aquarius | yeah. That'll be a problem for fullscreen immersive games, though, so I don't think that'll be the thing. | 23:16 |
| AlanBell | dunno, it could be that games are not really what it is for | 23:16 |
| aquarius | ah, I see waht you mean; device coords are always portrait, so if you want to make a landscape game you rotate your internal coordinate system | 23:16 |
| AlanBell | indeed | 23:16 |
| ubuntubhoy | was surprised to see firefox get a hardware partner | 23:17 |
| AlanBell | oh? | 23:18 |
| ubuntubhoy | ZTE | 23:18 |
| aquarius | interesting idea from a bloke on g+, that the letters in my game should fall faster as time goes on, so it gets harder | 23:18 |
| aquarius | also, I'd add accomplishments if the accomplishments people made a QML thing :) | 23:18 |
| * aquarius mentions it | 23:19 | |
| cielak | does anyone know if Python is expected to run on PhoneOS? | 23:47 |
| aquarius | it's a good question. It probably will, although I suspect the core apps will not be written in it. :) | 23:49 |
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