| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
| Seeker | I wish I lived on a higher floor, so I could throw this damn computer out and watch it smash | 01:52 |
|---|---|---|
| daftykins | what's not playing ball? | 01:52 |
| Seeker | my TV tuners | 01:52 |
| Seeker | both my DVB-T and DVB-S tuners have stopped tuning anything | 01:53 |
| daftykins | Seeker: meet ali1234 | 01:53 |
| Seeker | ? | 01:53 |
| daftykins | he has TV tuning fun too | 01:55 |
| Seeker | when did his start? | 01:55 |
| daftykins | new years day iirc | 01:55 |
| Seeker | mine started some time between about 2am and 6pm today | 01:55 |
| Seeker | well, yesterday now | 01:55 |
| daftykins | hrmm | 01:55 |
| daftykins | what changed in that window? | 01:56 |
| Seeker | no idea | 01:56 |
| Seeker | I was out at work | 01:56 |
| Seeker | wife didn't use TV | 01:56 |
| Seeker | aerial is ok, TV can receive singal | 01:57 |
| daftykins | any auto update shiz enabled? | 01:58 |
| Seeker | nope | 01:59 |
| daftykins | well i'm out of ideas | 02:00 |
| daftykins | good news is, you no longer see the terrible programming of today? | 02:00 |
| Seeker | yeah, but now my mythtv box is broken | 02:01 |
| daftykins | =[ | 02:02 |
| Seeker | it just doesnt seem to be able to tune anything | 02:12 |
| Seeker | and I have no idea why | 02:12 |
| daftykins | that's the same situation ali1234 has | 02:14 |
| daftykins | mythtv too, afaik | 02:14 |
| Seeker | I'm trying to use the dvb tools too | 02:14 |
| Seeker | scan, w_scan, dvbsnoop | 02:14 |
| Seeker | all do nothing | 02:14 |
| daftykins | how wude indeed | 02:14 |
| Seeker | nothing in dmesg | 02:15 |
| * MartijnVdS needs moar cpu power | 08:13 | |
| dw4tkins | I had the same trouble last year, MartijnVdS - then a friend replaced his PC so I got a cheap but very useable machine 2nd hand | 09:00 |
| dw4tkins | ...alternatively, get a Raspberry Pi cluster. | 09:00 |
| MartijnVdS | dw4tkins: I just want to compile some custom OpenWRT firmware :) | 09:05 |
| MartijnVdS | dw4tkins: but it's taking forever :) | 09:05 |
| MartijnVdS | even with only 5-6 packages enabled | 09:05 |
| * dw4tkins throws a 1 GHz AMD CPU in MartijnVdS' general direction | 09:06 | |
| dw4tkins | I have 42 Lego points, woohoo! | 09:09 |
| ali1234 | Seeker: mythtv can't tune properly. you need to enter transponders manually and then do a tuned scan. | 09:11 |
| directhex | myth always scanned fine for me | 09:30 |
| directhex | as of 0.18 or so | 09:30 |
| === freedomrun is now known as Guest97005 | ||
| ali1234 | i get two copies of half the channels and the other half don't show up at all | 09:44 |
| ali1234 | also i get different results each time | 09:44 |
| ali1234 | the problem is every frontend is different | 09:44 |
| ali1234 | they have different timeouts, different signals etc | 09:45 |
| ali1234 | they are trying to standardise it right now actually | 09:45 |
| Seeker | ali1234, tried the command line scan utilities? | 09:53 |
| ali1234 | yes | 09:53 |
| ali1234 | they are hit and miss | 09:54 |
| ali1234 | scan works, but only because you tell it all the frequencies in advance | 09:54 |
| ali1234 | w_scan does not work, it does the same thing as mythtv | 09:54 |
| ali1234 | i don't think there are any others | 09:54 |
| ali1234 | there is dvbv5_scan but i haven't tried that | 09:55 |
| MartijnVdS | w_scan works fine for me | 09:56 |
| MartijnVdS | on DVB-T and DVB-S2 | 09:56 |
| MartijnVdS | (with DiSEqC) | 09:56 |
| Seeker | ali1234, and it was working previously, then suddenly stopped being able to get a lock? | 09:56 |
| ali1234 | no, this is just standard | 09:57 |
| Seeker | both of my cards were working perfectly previously | 09:57 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker: satellite? | 09:57 |
| Seeker | Sometime between 2am and 6pm yesterday, both my Nova-T 500 and my TBS 6920 (DVB-T and DVB-S2 respectively) stopped getting locks | 09:58 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker: have you tried turning it off and back on again? ;) | 09:58 |
| MartijnVdS | I use this: w_scan -fs -s S28E2 -E0 -O0 -o7 > Astra2.conf | 09:58 |
| Seeker | yes | 09:58 |
| brobostigon | good morning everyone, | 09:58 |
| MartijnVdS | what's your command line? | 09:58 |
| MartijnVdS | brobostigon: howdy! | 09:58 |
| Seeker | MartijnVdS, I'll let that run, see what happens | 09:59 |
| brobostigon | MartijnVdS: howdy | 09:59 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker: (frontend satellite, sat 28E2 = "the one most UK dishes are pointed at because of FreeSat and Sky", E0 = only free-to-air, -O0 = Only TV/Radio, no data, -o7 = VDR 1.7 output) | 10:00 |
| Seeker | think I used w_scan -fs -s S28E2 | 10:01 |
| === Seeker is now known as Seeker` | ||
| MartijnVdS | the other options are optional :) | 10:01 |
| Seeker` | Error: Sorry - i could't get any working frequency/transponder. Nothing to scan!! | 10:05 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker`: sounds like someone stole your dish | 10:05 |
| MartijnVdS | or misaligned it | 10:05 |
| Seeker` | MartijnVdS, So why did my DVB-T stop tuning too, when a TV plugged in to another socket works | 10:05 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker`: yes that's very weird, and why I asked if you'd rebooted :) | 10:06 |
| dw4tkins | perhaps it's a hardware problem, with the socket or the cable? | 10:06 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker`: w_scan -ft -c UK -E0 -O0 -v for DVB-T ? | 10:06 |
| Seeker` | GB not UK :P | 10:07 |
| MartijnVdS | the TV might need less signal to work properly (more sensitive receiver) | 10:07 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker`: uh yeah :) | 10:07 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker`: mine says NL :) | 10:07 |
| Seeker` | dw4tkins: Two seperate cables | 10:07 |
| Seeker` | The TV is rubbish. Before the switchover, it couldn't get more than aobut 3 channels, mythtv could get all of them | 10:08 |
| MartijnVdS | I'm confused about your cables :) | 10:09 |
| MartijnVdS | can you draw a diagram somewhere? | 10:10 |
| Seeker` | MartijnVdS, two cables coming from a wall socket. One going to a DVB-S2 card, another going to a DVB-T card | 10:10 |
| MartijnVdS | did you switch them? | 10:10 |
| Seeker` | no, they have different connectors | 10:10 |
| MartijnVdS | was there rain/snow/lightning yesterday? | 10:11 |
| Seeker` | no | 10:11 |
| Seeker` | well, not that I recall | 10:12 |
| === dw4tkins is now known as dwatkins | ||
| Seeker` | MartijnVdS, w_scan returns nothing for DVB-T either | 10:28 |
| ali1234 | Seeker`: when my TV kept not working at night i found out it was because someone was turning off the power supply for the masthead amplifier at night. | 11:03 |
| Seeker` | it was dead by 6pm, didn't record simpsons | 11:04 |
| === soreau_ is now known as soreau | ||
| ali1234 | i need a file archival system | 13:13 |
| ali1234 | an automated one that understands directories, duplicates, timestamps, makefiles, various cvs formats, tar files... | 13:13 |
| ali1234 | a start would be a tool like file, except it works on directories | 13:15 |
| Seeker` | I need a working tuner :') | 13:15 |
| Seeker` | *:'( | 13:15 |
| ali1234 | > directory ~/Source/linux | 13:16 |
| ali1234 | git working directory, Linux 3.6.0, http://www.kernel.org | 13:16 |
| ali1234 | Seeker`: i suggest you consult my spreadsheet of all transmitters, find yours, then try to directly tune with dvbtune | 13:17 |
| Seeker` | where does the speadsheet live? | 13:17 |
| ali1234 | https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Amam7h6Tso0TdHFrY19LbDNSYXpzX1hWMC1ZeWEwYkE | 13:18 |
| ali1234 | note the multiple sheets, one for each region, at the bottom | 13:18 |
| ali1234 | to convert the UHF channel numbers to MHz, multiply by 8 and add 306 | 13:18 |
| ali1234 | then add 0.166 if it's + or subtract if it is - | 13:18 |
| ali1234 | then dvbtune -f <Hz> | 13:19 |
| MartijnVdS | For satellite, there's http://en.kingofsat.net/pos-28.2E.php | 13:19 |
| ali1234 | if you're on a main transmitter then there's initial tuning files here: http://al.robotfuzz.com/~al/dvb-t/ | 13:20 |
| ali1234 | if you're on a relay you'll have to look at the sheet | 13:20 |
| ali1234 | you should see: FE_STATUS: FE_HAS_SIGNAL FE_HAS_LOCK FE_HAS_CARRIER FE_HAS_VITERBI FE_HAS_SYNC | 13:20 |
| ali1234 | FE_HAS_SYNC being the most important one | 13:21 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: There's a package with all that in | 13:21 |
| ali1234 | if dvbtune runs forever you have a problem | 13:21 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: and that package hasn't been updated for post DSO frequencies, so it is completely useless | 13:21 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I started playing with dvbtune etc and eventually noticed kaffeine did it all itself | 13:21 |
| MartijnVdS | penguin42: dvb-apps | 13:21 |
| MartijnVdS | files are in /usr/share/dvb/dvb-t/uk-* | 13:21 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: i will submit the new tuning files upstream if/when people tell me they work :) | 13:22 |
| ali1234 | i can't really test them for obvious reasons :) | 13:22 |
| ali1234 | i know the lines for T2 multiplexes are wrong | 13:22 |
| ali1234 | don't know the correct format | 13:22 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: just drive around the country a few times and test them :) | 13:22 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: can't take more than a few weeks! | 13:23 |
| ali1234 | i can't drive | 13:23 |
| MartijnVdS | Hire the stig. | 13:23 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Most of the files in my version say they're autogenerated from ofcom/dtg sites - except mine (winter hill which says it's manual) | 13:23 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: yep all those "autogenerated from dtg" ones are generated from the pre-DSO data | 13:23 |
| ali1234 | which is still up at the exact same URL | 13:24 |
| ali1234 | and completely wrong | 13:24 |
| penguin42 | ah, that sucks | 13:24 |
| ali1234 | the new data is in a different format that can't be parsed easily (PDF) | 13:24 |
| ali1234 | however, i managed with some manual tweaks to do it | 13:24 |
| ali1234 | and now you see the results :) | 13:24 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: ask Ofcom to have a look at the Dutch system :) | 13:25 |
| ali1234 | why? | 13:25 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: we have a web-accessible database we can query with a simple form :) | 13:25 |
| MartijnVdS | very Web 0.5 | 13:25 |
| ali1234 | that's pretty cool | 13:25 |
| ali1234 | we have ukfree.tv or whatever it's called, but it's not machine readable | 13:25 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: we also have http://radio-tv-nederland.nl/ who went through the raw data and put the interesting bits into .xls files | 13:26 |
| ali1234 | Seeker`: i guess check ukfree.tv to see if there's problems on your transmitter | 13:26 |
| Seeker` | ali1234, I just get 'FE_GET_INFO: Inappropriate ioctl for device' | 13:26 |
| MartijnVdS | ali1234: It's suspicious that both sat and terrestrial broke at the same time | 13:26 |
| ali1234 | Seeker`: that's not a problem in and of itself | 13:26 |
| Seeker` | and no reported problems on my transmitters | 13:27 |
| ali1234 | i get that on some tuners but they still work | 13:27 |
| ali1234 | it is suspicious. did you update kernel? | 13:27 |
| Seeker` | the program exits after that error | 13:27 |
| MartijnVdS | maybe the /dev/dvb/adapter0 and adapter1 got switched around somehow? | 13:27 |
| ali1234 | ah that could mean something else is using it then | 13:27 |
| ali1234 | you need to kill mythbackend | 13:28 |
| MartijnVdS | so everything that's expecting DVB-T on 0, gets the S adapter and the other way around | 13:28 |
| ali1234 | before doing anything else | 13:28 |
| ali1234 | that's a possibility | 13:28 |
| Seeker` | backend is stopped | 13:28 |
| ali1234 | dvbtune will tell you the name of the device (chipset) | 13:28 |
| ali1234 | eg Using DVB card "Realtek RTL2832 (DVB-T)" | 13:29 |
| MartijnVdS | hmm. w_scan might have been having the same problem: device already in use | 13:29 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 13:29 |
| ali1234 | maybe backend crashed | 13:29 |
| MartijnVdS | but that should have been fixed by rebooting | 13:30 |
| ali1234 | i suggest plugging tuner into another computer, assuming it is USB | 13:30 |
| Seeker` | nope, PCI / PCIe | 13:30 |
| Seeker` | hmm, w_scan / dvbtune etc. aren't finding any cards now | 13:30 |
| Seeker` | this is really weird | 13:30 |
| ali1234 | check dmesg? | 13:30 |
| Seeker` | modules are loaded | 13:30 |
| Seeker` | no errors in dmesg | 13:31 |
| ali1234 | maybe dvb core crashed | 13:31 |
| ali1234 | or maybe usb stack crashed | 13:31 |
| ali1234 | dvb tends to do that | 13:31 |
| ali1234 | what modules do your cards use? | 13:31 |
| ali1234 | wait, not usb stack if it's pci | 13:31 |
| Seeker` | well, the Nova-T 500 is two tuners on a USB bus I think | 13:32 |
| Seeker` | nova-t is dib7000m/ dib3000mc | 13:32 |
| Seeker` | the satellite card is cx23885 | 13:32 |
| ali1234 | dib3000 support is broken in rcent kernels | 13:33 |
| ali1234 | mine stopped working ages ago | 13:33 |
| * MartijnVdS has dvb_usb_dtt200u and saa7146/budget_ci | 13:34 | |
| Seeker` | [ 9.517130] usbcore: registered new interface driver dvb_usb_dib0700 | 13:34 |
| MartijnVdS | (some no-brand DVB-T USB stick an TT-S2-3200) | 13:35 |
| MartijnVdS | Seeker`: have you tried a shutdown + remove power completely + wait a while + power everything back on? | 13:37 |
| ali1234 | that is a good suggestion | 13:37 |
| ali1234 | USB devices often stay powered and "crashed" over reboots if you don't do that | 13:37 |
| * MartijnVdS pokes around with OpenWRT | 13:42 | |
| Seeker` | MartijnVdS, shut it down for a couple of hours. Came back up and now no program recognises either card | 13:45 |
| Seeker` | my computer is being really weird | 13:46 |
| Seeker` | one of my drives gives a SMART error when I boot | 13:46 |
| MartijnVdS | Capacitor plague? | 13:46 |
| Seeker` | If i unplug that drive, then another drive doesn't mount either | 13:46 |
| Seeker` | just took the card out, they look fine | 13:47 |
| MartijnVdS | sounds like your PCI bus is out of whack | 13:47 |
| MartijnVdS | nah look on the mainboard | 13:47 |
| MartijnVdS | and check the voltages your PSU puts out | 13:47 |
| Seeker` | caps look fine | 13:49 |
| Seeker` | BIOS is reporting voltages within 1.5% of expected | 13:49 |
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| penguin42 | Seeker`: What exactly are your SATA errors | 13:58 |
| dwatkins | I'd remove everything and add components one at a time to find the fault, or if it's with the motherboard, Seeker`. | 13:58 |
| Seeker` | penguin42 BIOS says that SMART has started reporting errors with one drive | 13:59 |
| penguin42 | Seeker`: I'd use smartctl -a to show the exact smart errors in the drives log, and also get any kernel errors related to the drive; you can sometimes see if it's media or cable from them | 14:01 |
| Seeker` | no kernel errors, its only "Raw_Read_Error_Rate" | 14:12 |
| penguin42 | ok, show the smartctl -a data | 14:21 |
| zleap | hello | 14:25 |
| Seeker` | penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1523770/ | 14:25 |
| zleap | Seeker`, what are we looking for in that, | 14:27 |
| penguin42 | Seeker`: That does look like a pre-failure warning on a drive; a bad psu could do it, but if it's not the PSU I'd say that drive is due to fail soon | 14:27 |
| Seeker` | penguin42, got a replacement waiting to be picked up at pc world | 14:28 |
| penguin42 | yeuch | 14:28 |
| Seeker` | so, how do I fix my problem? | 14:29 |
| penguin42 | throw the drive | 14:29 |
| penguin42 | Seeker`: If your seeing problems across multiple drives I'd suspect the PSU | 14:30 |
| Seeker` | penguin42, the main problem I have is that both of my TV tuners have suddenly stopped working | 14:36 |
| penguin42 | Seeker`: Erm weird, if those are all happening at the same time as your drive problems then I'd definitely check the PSU | 14:38 |
| Seeker` | penguin42, like I said, all reported values are within 1.5% of expected | 14:38 |
| penguin42 | Seeker`: It might be one rail on the PSU is dead | 14:39 |
| Seeker` | how do you suggest I test it then? | 14:39 |
| Seeker` | eugh, not the PSU causing DVB-S problems | 14:40 |
| Seeker` | same card doesn't work in a different PC | 14:40 |
| penguin42 | Seeker`: OK, so isolate your problems - if they're actually independent problems then you've just got a dying hard drive | 14:42 |
| Seeker` | I believe so | 14:43 |
| === cjo20 is now known as Seeker` | ||
| Seeker` | Think I might just go and buy a new DVB-T tuner, see if that works | 16:03 |
| Seeker` | the socket works, I get the same thing happening on 2 different PCs | 16:04 |
| Seeker` | only leaves the cards | 16:04 |
| ali1234 | Seeker`: when you say "the socket" shouldn't you have two sockets? | 16:50 |
| Seeker` | one wall plate, two connector points (well, 3 actually) | 16:50 |
| ali1234 | why am i experiencing 3 second lag on all connections? | 17:26 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: It takes that long for the censors to forward it | 17:32 |
| ali1234 | nope, pretty sure it's something to do with this: | 17:33 |
| ali1234 | Jan 12 17:32:50 al-desktop kernel: [87041.952228] usb_urb_complete: 3675 callbacks suppressed | 17:33 |
| ali1234 | every second | 17:33 |
| penguin42 | oh not fun | 17:33 |
| ali1234 | actually, that's a nope | 17:34 |
| ali1234 | that's caused because i left tzap running | 17:34 |
| penguin42 | tzap? | 17:34 |
| ali1234 | it's not the cause of my lag though | 17:34 |
| ali1234 | dvb-t tuning program | 17:34 |
| ali1234 | well, modem reboot time | 17:35 |
| Seeker` | ali1234: Bought a nano-something 290e, which seems to be able to get a lock (its a USB tuner) | 19:32 |
| Seeker` | although that is through its own portable aerial | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | wow | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | i never got anything from a small aerial | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | i have that tuner | 19:32 |
| ali1234 | it's DVB-T2 | 19:32 |
| Seeker` | yeah | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | basically the only one | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | it does HD | 19:33 |
| Seeker` | how did you connect it to the wall? | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | with a cable? | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | there's an adapter in the box | 19:33 |
| Seeker` | hmm | 19:33 |
| Seeker` | not in mine | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | for the mini connector | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | well... there should be | 19:33 |
| inn0min4t3 | Did Google stop making Picasa for Ubuntu? | 19:33 |
| ali1234 | the other type of tuner to look out for is rtl2832 | 19:34 |
| Seeker` | ah, there it is | 19:34 |
| ali1234 | it does FM via SDR and you can use it with gnuradio to receive other stuff | 19:34 |
| Seeker` | tbh, if i can get my nova-t 500 working again, I'd prefer to keep that plugged in to the wall for now, as it has dual tuners | 19:35 |
| Seeker` | I may just nuke my backend and start again | 19:35 |
| ali1234 | those dibcom tuners aren't very good | 19:35 |
| ali1234 | they just stop working for no reason :( | 19:36 |
| ali1234 | mine never worked properly | 19:36 |
| ali1234 | here's a trick you can use. tune to a working transponder with dvbtune -m to show signal strength | 19:38 |
| ali1234 | you can then unplug the antenna and plug in a different one, to compare signal strength | 19:38 |
| ali1234 | you can't directly do that if there is no signal to start with | 19:38 |
| ali1234 | because dvbtune will just exit if there is no lock | 19:39 |
| ali1234 | but once it is running it will keep going even if the signal comes and goes | 19:39 |
| rmarcandier | Alguem ai tem a Cert LPC-01 ? | 20:14 |
| ali1234 | http://askubuntu.com/questions/240431/is-there-a-way-i-can-rename-trash-to-crap | 20:21 |
| ali1234 | awesome question | 20:21 |
| rmarcandier | sorry, wrong chat :) | 20:21 |
| ali1234 | i know we had no end of problems with translating Trash to Rubbish, so can anyone answer that? | 20:21 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Hmm, could you do it by definining a new locale - en_GBvulgar ? | 20:23 |
| shauno | http://askubuntu.com/a/85286/11684 looks promising? (not sure if this renames the folder though, or just the icon that represents it) | 20:23 |
| ali1234 | sure. i have no idea of the details involved though | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | i'm not the question asker btw | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | i just thought it was an amusing question | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | shauno: nice one. flagged the question as duplicate :) | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | he wants to rename the icon which is what that icon does. he tried renaming the folder but this did not have the intended effect | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | *answer | 20:27 |
| shauno | I've no idea how nautilus handles these. on osx, they give the folder a daft name and then handle in in metadata (eg, ~/Music.localized) | 20:28 |
| ali1234 | yep, i suspect the folder is always Trash | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | regardless of locale | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | otherwise it would explode if you changed locale | 20:29 |
| shauno | that would seem like the sensible option for folders you wouldn't usually see browsing | 20:30 |
| ali1234 | i really want to make en_vulgar now | 20:34 |
| ali1234 | would be an ideal addition to user hostile linux | 20:34 |
| rmarcandier | Hello guys, I have a quick question. At the moment I am working with Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on my work machine. I would like to know if Backbox or BackTrack are stable to work with, or just to make tests? | 20:46 |
| marsilainen | hi all, how well can I expect an upgrade to work from 10.04 LTS (server) to 12.04 LTS (server) ? | 21:07 |
| marsilainen | should I expect lots of problems? or for it to work flawlessly? or something in-between? | 21:08 |
| marsilainen | the server is a standard LAMP + postfix server mainly | 21:08 |
| AlanBell | marsilainen: does it have stuff from the repos on it? | 21:09 |
| marsilainen | I'm not sure what you mean? | 21:09 |
| AlanBell | did you install stuff from source on it? | 21:09 |
| AlanBell | or apt-get for things like postgres | 21:09 |
| marsilainen | pretty much everything on there was installed using apt-get | 21:09 |
| AlanBell | flawlessly then :) | 21:09 |
| marsilainen | cool | 21:09 |
| marsilainen | sort of a scary thing to do, so thought I should ask first... | 21:10 |
| AlanBell | backup first etc | 21:10 |
| AlanBell | backup config files twice :) | 21:10 |
| marsilainen | yeah, of course | 21:10 |
| marsilainen | I shall try it tomorrow morning then | 21:11 |
| marsilainen | at least I have the rest of the day to sort it out if anything doesn't quite work ;) | 21:11 |
| penguin42 | well I now have an ubuntu derivative on a little mk809 ARM board; bit hacky and I need to get some networking yet; but still - progress | 21:12 |
| ali1234 | marsilainen: if the server is a VPS you will have problems | 21:14 |
| marsilainen | ali1234: oh, it is | 21:14 |
| marsilainen | ali1234: sorry, I should have mentioned that | 21:14 |
| ali1234 | typically you cannot choose kernel on a VPS | 21:14 |
| marsilainen | ali1234: hmm, ok, I wasn't aware of that | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | so you will be running 12.04 on whatever kernel your VPS provider uses | 21:15 |
| shauno | curious, which provider? | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | which may or may not work | 21:15 |
| marsilainen | shauno: bytemark | 21:15 |
| marsilainen | ali1234: so how should I proceed? | 21:15 |
| AlanBell | depends on the virtualisation technology | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | yes | 21:15 |
| penguin42 | and how flexible the providers are | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | you should ask bytemark how to proceed basically | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | it might be best to provision a new VPS and then transfer files | 21:16 |
| penguin42 | bytemark are pretty good; it's a kvm guest normally | 21:16 |
| marsilainen | AlanBell: it's kvm I believe | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | then update DNS and cancel the old one once everything is done | 21:16 |
| marsilainen | so should I talk to bytemark first? | 21:16 |
| penguin42 | marsilainen: Is it there big.io thing or one of their older ones? | 21:16 |
| AlanBell | bytemark did have a custom kernel at one point, they did a tweak to jiggle the cron jobs so everything didn't go off at once, but that was back when they were using xen | 21:16 |
| penguin42 | marsilainen: Ask on their forums, or I think there is also a #bytemark on here | 21:16 |
| marsilainen | right ok, I'll look into it | 21:17 |
| shauno | yeah, that's why I was asking. I know bitfolk have a nice strategy to give you provision a vps and cancel the old one a week later (and don't charge you any extra for the overlap, which is nice) | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | handy | 21:17 |
| penguin42 | they're generally pretty friendly - not sure whether the bytemark setup allows you to next kvm | 21:17 |
| AlanBell | bytemark are good, was pleased with them when we were a customer | 21:17 |
| penguin42 | next? I mean *nest* kvm | 21:18 |
| AlanBell | we use KVM for our servers and run standard kernels on them, the kernel is running in the VM it doesn't know it isn't on hardware | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | i've only used openVZ VPS | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | it really hurts | 21:19 |
| marsilainen | ok, I'll definitely check with them (asking in #bytemark now) before going ahead with anything - thanks for raising the issue | 21:19 |
| ali1234 | moved everything to a hetzner dedi rather than deal with that badness | 21:19 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: kvm is a bit nicer than VPS; it's a full virtualised machine with it's own kernel - much saner | 21:19 |
| penguin42 | and the bytemark stuff lets you get to the console and reboot it all remotely - can't remember if they let you do arbitrary kernel choice or not) | 21:20 |
| penguin42 | sigh, this would be SO much easier if I had a working USB hub | 21:21 |
| marsilainen | ok, so it sounds like I just need to make sure that after the upgrade I connect to the console and ensure that the right kernel is selected | 21:25 |
| marsilainen | so that's easy enough | 21:25 |
| marsilainen | really want to do this as the version of PHP in 10.04 is a bit old now and some newer stuff doesn't support it | 21:25 |
| Zeotrope | hello | 21:44 |
| Zeotrope | can | 21:45 |
| Zeotrope | can anyone help me please ? | 21:45 |
| AlanBell | !ask | 21:45 |
| lubotu3 | Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience | 21:45 |
| Zeotrope | I have installed Zorin 6.1 on a laptop HP pavilion dv5000 and | 21:46 |
| Zeotrope | sorry i am new | 21:46 |
| AlanBell | what is zorin 6.1? | 21:47 |
| Zeotrope | am getting a wireless is disabled by hardware swich | 21:47 |
| AlanBell | oh, right that isn't ubuntu. Maybe find the zorin os support channel. | 21:47 |
| DJones | AlanBell: Its a derivative | 21:47 |
| AlanBell | ask in #ZorinOS | 21:48 |
| Zeotrope | i have tried typing sudo rfkill unblock all | 21:48 |
| Zeotrope | it says command not known | 21:48 |
| Zeotrope | i will try that other channel thank you | 21:49 |
| zleap | can someone help me with vnc please | 22:09 |
| marsilainen | !ask | 22:19 |
| lubotu3 | Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) See also !patience | 22:19 |
| ali1234 | zorin os? like the bond villain? | 22:20 |
| marsilainen | if I had one critisism of Ubuntu it would be the tendency for all the UI to be seeming to be trying to get as close to MacOSX as possible - is that some sort of stated goal within Canonical? | 22:22 |
| ali1234 | no | 22:23 |
| ali1234 | they will never admit to it | 22:23 |
| marsilainen | sure, externally - but what about internally? | 22:23 |
| ali1234 | i dunno | 22:24 |
| AlanBell | they have said they are competing with mac os X rather than Windows | 22:24 |
| ali1234 | i would find that quote where shuttleworth basically said power users don't matter to ubuntu because all power users are moving to OS X anyway | 22:24 |
| ali1234 | but i can't be bothered any more | 22:24 |
| ali1234 | also all the UI designers use OS X | 22:24 |
| marsilainen | I think that MacOSX has a much nicer UI than Windows so I'd rather they go towards that than something else, but find it a little strange that it's losing some individuality along the way | 22:25 |
| ali1234 | i don't | 22:25 |
| marsilainen | fair enough | 22:25 |
| ali1234 | i think OS X is much worse than windows 7 | 22:25 |
| ali1234 | obviously it is better than windows 8 | 22:25 |
| ali1234 | and the ribbon is just horrible | 22:25 |
| ali1234 | but in terms of the task bar windows 7 gets it right | 22:26 |
| ali1234 | but i've explained this too many times | 22:26 |
| marsilainen | hehe | 22:26 |
| ali1234 | basically there are two philosophies of task bar. one says the task bar switches between windows, the other says it switches between applications | 22:27 |
| ali1234 | windows 7 is the former. unity and OS X are the latter | 22:27 |
| ali1234 | the problem is that a window is a clearly defined thing, but an "application" is not | 22:27 |
| ali1234 | so that type of task bar (usually called a dock) is doomed to fail no matter how much you polish it | 22:28 |
| marsilainen | well I don't use unity - I use gnome shell - and I don't use the 'dock' much TBH - I tend to have lots of workspaces with only one or two apps on each | 22:29 |
| ali1234 | also global menu is an abomination | 22:29 |
| marsilainen | so I tend to spend my time switching workspaces rather than switching windows | 22:29 |
| marsilainen | which I find to be a more productive way of working, for me | 22:29 |
| ali1234 | hah | 22:29 |
| marsilainen | if I want to start a new app, I start a new workspace | 22:30 |
| ali1234 | so basically you learned to avoid the crappy window management and found a workaround | 22:30 |
| marsilainen | maybe so | 22:30 |
| marsilainen | works for me | 22:30 |
| ali1234 | putting each window on a new workspace is just a proxy for having a proper taskbar | 22:30 |
| ali1234 | unfortunately you can't do that in unity, because you only get 4 workspaces and adding more is difficult | 22:30 |
| marsilainen | when you have an app with multiple windows - like the gimp for example - it feels much cleaner to me to have it on a separate workspace | 22:31 |
| ali1234 | that's true | 22:31 |
| ali1234 | but i advocate single window mode for gimp | 22:31 |
| marsilainen | yes, that's right - that's one of the major benefits of gnome shell over unity IMHO | 22:31 |
| ali1234 | or i would if it wasn't implemented in the worst way possible | 22:31 |
| ali1234 | i mean, you;d expect it to use MDI right? nope. in single window mode, you can only view one image at a time. it uses tabs. | 22:32 |
| marsilainen | I do have multiple apps on some workspaces - like this one is my communication one with IRC, email, skype etc | 22:32 |
| ali1234 | they don't look like tabs but they work exactly like tabs | 22:32 |
| marsilainen | but only a few windows so easy to switch between the apps | 22:32 |
| marsilainen | I've never tried gimp in that mode | 22:32 |
| marsilainen | but yeah, doesn't sound great | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | i do basically the same thing but for some use cases i just need to switch constantly between 4 fullscreen windows without having to look at the 400 other windows i have open | 22:33 |
| marsilainen | but with it on a separate workspace I don't have to worry about that :p | 22:33 |
| ali1234 | the 4 windows being shell, app under development, text editor, browser | 22:33 |
| marsilainen | everyone has their own use cases and therefore their own way of working | 22:34 |
| marsilainen | I'm not advocating mine for everyone | 22:34 |
| marsilainen | but it works well for me | 22:34 |
| ali1234 | i don't advocate. i just point out flaws in everyone else's stuff :) | 22:34 |
| marsilainen | haha | 22:34 |
| ali1234 | at the end of the day all computers suck | 22:35 |
| marsilainen | one thing I would say for gnome shell over unity is that everyone at my place of work who has tried gnome shell for a week has decided to stick with it rather than going back to unity | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | i think apple kind of gets it | 22:35 |
| marsilainen | which probably says something at least | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | sure their stuff is locked down and limited | 22:35 |
| ali1234 | i think we have to start over with computers for consumers | 22:36 |
| marsilainen | probably quite true | 22:36 |
| marsilainen | anyway, I'm off to watch the football :) | 22:36 |
| ali1234 | does anyone have any requests for ubuntu phone apps? | 22:37 |
| zleap | denver vs baltimore | 22:38 |
| ali1234 | if you had 5 minutes to play with an ubuntu phone what would you try? | 22:40 |
| ali1234 | i would time how long it took to sudo apt-get update | 22:40 |
| AlanBell | ali1234: that would be what I would try last, just before handing it back | 22:41 |
| AlanBell | I would try rotating it | 22:41 |
| ali1234 | haha yeah i would try that :) | 22:42 |
| AlanBell | and I would try running an application on it when connected to a monitor over HDMI then disconnecting the monitor | 22:42 |
| brobostigon | miracast ? | 22:43 |
| ali1234 | i hope the people who made it had some hands on time with an N900 | 22:43 |
| ali1234 | because there a lot to be learned... mostly what NOT to do | 22:43 |
| ali1234 | i think unity could be great on a phone | 22:44 |
| ali1234 | it's not a million miles away from hildon | 22:44 |
| ali1234 | and that worked very well on the N900 | 22:44 |
| ali1234 | it works because on a phone everything is full screen | 22:45 |
| ali1234 | thus app == window, always | 22:45 |
| ali1234 | you could run desktop software on the N900 but it was really horrible, mainly because of window management | 22:46 |
| AlanBell | almost always, the Galaxy S3 has split screen for two apps now | 22:46 |
| ali1234 | well that's just a silly gimmick | 22:46 |
| AlanBell | to an extent | 22:46 |
| ali1234 | even so, android apps are always one window | 22:47 |
| AlanBell | you can also have a video playing in a window over other apps | 22:47 |
| ali1234 | i barely ever even switch windows in android... it's more like a stack | 22:47 |
| AlanBell | there are some things about this phone that really need to be designed in early and I am not sure they are going to be | 22:47 |
| ali1234 | such as? | 22:48 |
| AlanBell | rotation and accessibility would be my two things that are conspicuously absent | 22:48 |
| ali1234 | rotation is meh | 22:48 |
| AlanBell | rotation might resize the app window and transform it's coordinate space | 22:48 |
| ali1234 | most stuff didn't rotate on N900 | 22:48 |
| ali1234 | and i have my nexus 7 rotation locked | 22:49 |
| AlanBell | or it might not, you could have landscape and portrait windows in the stack, apps could refuse to rotate or accept a rotate | 22:49 |
| ali1234 | you don't really need that designed in from the start | 22:49 |
| ali1234 | i mean QML handles it anyway, just connect it up to the sensor and you are done | 22:50 |
| AlanBell | how does QML handle it? | 22:50 |
| ali1234 | it handles it in the sense that everything is resizable | 22:50 |
| ali1234 | you can make your QML app be all fixed pixel sizes if you want but that is missing the point | 22:51 |
| ali1234 | anchors.fill = parent | 22:51 |
| AlanBell | http://micronokiadev.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/controling-rotation-in-qml-looked-hard-but-was-easy/ like that maybe | 22:52 |
| ali1234 | yes | 22:52 |
| ali1234 | QML is a lot like banging out HTML DOM with javascript | 22:52 |
| ali1234 | in the beginning it was quite bad for that... a lot of problems just like we had with HTML 10 years ago | 22:53 |
| ali1234 | where everything would explode when you resize one element | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | but we're on 2.0 now... it got better | 22:54 |
| AlanBell | cool | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | QML is designed for phone apps basically | 22:54 |
| ali1234 | selecting QML for app development was the best idea ever | 22:55 |
| AlanBell | yes, it does seem quite good | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | oh and it's not called QML any more | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | it's called Qt Quick 2.0 | 22:55 |
| AlanBell | Qt Quick | 22:55 |
| ali1234 | but whatever, it's always QML to me | 22:56 |
| ali1234 | you might want to check out the nokia N900 sdk | 22:58 |
| ali1234 | it has a phone simulator | 22:58 |
| ali1234 | you can click "rotate" and it rotates | 22:58 |
| ali1234 | not sure if you can use Qt 5 though | 22:59 |
| AlanBell | not sure I want to develop any apps really, I am probably more interested in the HTML5 stuff for it | 23:01 |
| ali1234 | HTML5 is a dead end | 23:02 |
| AlanBell | heh | 23:02 |
| ali1234 | it's just too hard to make anything good with HTML | 23:03 |
| ali1234 | even if you use jquery it's still a nightmare | 23:03 |
| ali1234 | just try to make a kinetic scrolling list in HTML5 | 23:04 |
| ali1234 | then notice it's 4 lines of code in QML | 23:04 |
| ali1234 | did you look at my newest jono-qml? | 23:06 |
| ali1234 | i added kinetic scrolling... just because | 23:06 |
| ali1234 | also, http://necessitas.kde.org/ | 23:19 |
| AlanBell | nice | 23:23 |
| AlanBell | I figured there would be a QML for android somewhere | 23:23 |
| ali1234 | still beta. i'm installing it now | 23:24 |
| ali1234 | also it's Qt 4.8 | 23:26 |
| ali1234 | well that was easy | 23:42 |
| ali1234 | tomorrow i'll make something cool with this i guess | 23:43 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!