[16:56] <scott-work> hi, scott lavender here, ubuntu studio project lead. i believe community council meeting is scheduled to begin in 5 minutes?
[16:56] <pleia2> scott-work: yep :)
[16:56] <knome> no, four minutes.
[16:56] <pleia2> knome: well, we never do start on time ;)
[16:56] <knome> awwh
[16:56] <scott-work> unfortunately i need to be in a meeting at work at the same time, i will ask someone from #ubuntustudio-devel to attend or can xubuntu possible go first and i believe i should be in thirty minutes
[16:57] <knome> we can go first.
[16:57] <pleia2> ok
[16:57] <scott-work> *should be BACK in thirty minutes
[16:57] <scott-work> thank you knome and pleia2
[16:57] <pleia2> scott-work: the more the merrier, so if someone from #ubuntustudio-devel could come in AND you rejoin us in 30 minutes it would be great :)
[16:57] <pleia2> that way someone can start if you don't make it back quite on time
[16:58] <czajkowski> Aloha
[16:58] <knome> hey cjohnston
[16:58] <knome> urm, czajkowski too
[16:58] <cjohnston> :-(
[16:58] <knome> sorry! :)
[17:00] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[17:00] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 17 17:00:24 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
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[17:00] <czajkowski> aloha
[17:00] <pleia2> hello everyone, welcome to the first Community Council meeting of the year :)
[17:00] <Gwaihir> hello!
[17:01] <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda
[17:01] <pleia2> nothing on the agenda except for our scheduled check ins with the Xubuntu and Studio teams, but at the end of the meeting we'll go through our todo list and then ask for any other feedback/issues/topics anyone wishes to discuss
[17:02] <pleia2> #topic Xubuntu check-in
[17:02] <knome> \o/
[17:02] <pleia2> knome: for these meetings we just try to get a pulse for teams, see if there is any way we can help, any particular challenges
[17:02] <pleia2> so, how's Xubuntu? :)
[17:03] <knome> hehe, well
[17:03] <knome> following the agenda page loosely, here's some things i think we are (or should be proud of):
[17:03] <knome> the progress on last cycle on many many community-related things
[17:04] <knome> including, but not limited to:
[17:04] <knome> revised strategy document
[17:04] <knome> many marketing initiatives
[17:04] <knome> new offline documentation
[17:04] <knome> many improvements on our website and social media outlets
[17:05] <knome> and progress towards a bigger team/community
[17:07] <knome> i should probably specifically mention sean (bluesabre), who's been a huge help working with various things that directly and indirectly improve the quality of xubuntu
[17:07] <knome> i'm hoping and waiting to see him be involved as much in the future and probably take a bigger role if that suits his life/work :)
[17:08] <knome> does somebody from the xubuntu team or community want to add something?
[17:08] <czajkowski> wow that is impressive knome
[17:08] <knome> thanks :)
[17:09] <knome> last cycle was definitely community-heavy for xubuntu
[17:09] <czajkowski> knome: how have you managed to get people involved, as you couldnt be doing all this on your own :)
[17:10] <YokoZar> Innumerable charms ;)
[17:10] <knome> pleia2 has been awesome!
[17:10]  * pleia2 switches to xubuntu hat for a moment
[17:10] <pleia2> part of it has been we seem to have more users because some people are looking for a more classic desktop
[17:10] <knome> (we don't have xubuntu *hats* yet...)
[17:11] <pleia2> so more users means more of a pool to draw from contributor-wise
[17:11] <czajkowski> nods
[17:11] <knome> yep, we've been getting more questions about how to contribute mainly on our mailing lists
[17:11] <pleia2> we've also been trying to fix up some of our getting involved documentation, last cycle in particular with our documentation rewrite, the core team was regular people on the project, but we got some newcomers too by making it easy for them to help out
[17:12] <knome> yup, that worked out really well!
[17:12] <pleia2> I've also been giving bite-size website tasks to some people looking to help (have some screenshots for updating the website in my queue from a new contributor)
[17:12] <knome> i think we are looking at one or two new (semi-)regular contributors now thanks to the documentation rewrite process
[17:13] <pleia2> knome: how are things going this cycle?
[17:13] <czajkowski> pleia2: great idea
[17:13] <knome> things are starting slowly, but steadily
[17:14] <knome> we haven't done any team reports yet (ugh), but we'll start doing them soon enough i hope
[17:14] <knome> we should start testing the new things that sean (mentioned previously) have been preparing for us
[17:14] <YokoZar> I'm curious if some of the changes in Ubuntu's style of development have affected you in a positive way
[17:14] <YokoZar> For instance the big new emphasis on automated testing
[17:15] <micahg> adding autopkgtests would be nice, but I don't think we've done much with that yet
[17:15] <knome> we've been looking at automated testing and wondering if we can use them in the future (hopefully for next LTS)
[17:15] <YokoZar> My hope was that this would result in, for instance, less breakage for derivatives when we change core packages since those would be caught
[17:15] <micahg> I think the -proposed migrations have kept the ISOs building though which is a good thing
[17:15] <knome> there's not too many things that xubuntu specifically can test with autotests, i think
[17:16] <YokoZar> micahg: That at least is great :)
[17:17] <knome> i think one of the questions for xubuntu for this and the forthcoming cycles is ISO space
[17:17] <knome> we're still trying to fit on a CD, and there's some uncertainty if the ubuntu core extends so much we have no chance of doing that
[17:18]  * pleia2 nods
[17:18] <micahg> we're also stuck with multiple python and gtk stacks for the next 2 cycles most likely
[17:18]  * cprofitt waves
[17:18] <cprofitt> sorry for being a bit late
[17:19] <knome> we ended shuffling the ISO and dropping a lot of things in the last cycle
[17:19] <czajkowski> knome: is there a plan then for that ?
[17:19] <knome> czajkowski, not a definite plan yet
[17:19] <knome> we'll see how the situation looks as we go
[17:20] <pleia2> cprofitt: welcome
[17:20] <knome> and before coming to definite conclusions, we need to investigate what we *can* drop if needed
[17:20] <knome> micahg has been working on that with me
[17:21] <knome> (mostly him though)
[17:22] <knome> as always, more intercommunication would most probably make it easier
[17:22] <pleia2> sounds like things are going well :)
[17:23] <knome> here he is ^
[17:23] <bluesabre_> here I am
[17:23] <bluesabre_> :)
[17:23] <pleia2> bluesabre_: any comments about the current state of xubuntu? :)
[17:24] <bluesabre_> Not really, I think we've got a good focus on quality and user experience
[17:25] <czajkowski> does sound like you have a well thought up plans and good active community
[17:25] <czajkowski> which is great to see
[17:25] <knome> that's true, we aren't targetting on too many new features for R, but focusing on keeping the quality up
[17:25] <czajkowski> nods
[17:25] <czajkowski> that seems like a sensible plan
[17:26] <cprofitt> like to hear the focus on quality and user experience.
[17:26] <knome> and of course, we plan to keep looking good so we'll attract more users.
[17:26] <knome> here's our artwork lead ochosi ;)
[17:27] <pleia2> (but not by filling up our CD with tons of wallpapers ;))
[17:27] <ochosi> just wanted to ask whether "looking good" is my queue
[17:27] <knome> no, not that, we don't have space for that... :)
[17:27]  * scott-work is back and thanks everyone for their patience with my schedule
[17:28] <pleia2> ok, unless anyone else has anything to add, we'll move on to Ubuntu Studio
[17:28] <pleia2> thanks knome, micahg, bluesabre_ and ochosi :)
[17:28] <knome> ta!
[17:28] <czajkowski> thank you
[17:28] <cprofitt> thanks knome micahg bluesabre_ and ochosi
[17:28] <pleia2> #topic Ubuntu Studio check-in
[17:29] <pleia2> scott-work: for these meetings we just try to get a pulse for teams, see if there is any way we can help, any particular challenges
[17:29] <pleia2> successes, progress :)
[17:29] <scott-work> thank you pleia2
[17:29] <cprofitt> hey scott-work
[17:30] <scott-work> development has been slightly restrained lately, however i would attribute that directly to be and my lack of recent involvement
[17:30] <scott-work> hi cprofitt !
[17:30] <scott-work> generally i have been the one to pursue our action items and keep pushing things
[17:31] <scott-work> that isn't to say that all development has stopped because people like zequence (ne ailo or ailo.at) and len have been pushing things along with micahg 's assistance
[17:31] <scott-work> i'm not aware that the council could provide any assistance at this time, but i also admit that i may be lacking in perception or knowledge as well ;)
[17:31] <scott-work> ..
[17:32] <pleia2> does the team have regular meetings?
[17:32] <cprofitt> how does the team track action items?
[17:32] <pleia2> I find it's easy for team members to drift apart when there isn't constant meetings to keep focus and remind of outstanding items
[17:32] <scott-work> the team has not been holding regular meetings. i would say that has dropped off during my limited activity, pleia2
[17:33] <scott-work> cprofitt: typically we use status.ubuntu.com to track items
[17:33] <pleia2> even once a month helps for some of the teams I'm on
[17:34] <czajkowski> scott-work: would it be helpful if people rotated a chair so if you're not there the meeting still can go on ahead and there is a sense of still meeting and getting things done
[17:34] <scott-work> generally i would posit that while there are more active members on the team we still do not have a strong, persistent nucleus for such critical mass
[17:35] <micahg> I think zequence represented Studio pretty well at UDS
[17:35] <scott-work> czajkowski: i agree. we have done so in the past with limited and varied results
[17:35] <scott-work> micahg: agreed. he is a very capable person with good vision
[17:35] <YokoZar> Is there any cause for concern?
[17:35] <czajkowski> scott-work: it may be an idea to try it again if not an hour meeting but a half hour, touch base and a check up and see do folks need a hand
[17:37] <scott-work> YokoZar: excellent question. when assumed project lead i viewed the team/project as dying. i think we have made exceedingly good progress from that point. i am quite proud of what he have done. however, i do not hold an active concern for the project, but i am aware how easily it could slip back without continued stewardship
[17:37] <scott-work> czajkowski: that is very good suggestion. thank you :)
[17:38] <scott-work> we have tried informal meetings on IRC, but the scattered nature of time zones is unfortunately not conducive to comprehensively or completely productive meetings as such
[17:38] <czajkowski> scott-work: if we can help, let us know
[17:38] <scott-work> thank you for the offer, czajkowski
[17:38] <czajkowski> scott-work: even if it's boucning ideas off someone else we're here to help
[17:38] <knome> from a semi-insider point of view, i think ubuntu studio has some good momentum, but it definitely won't hurt to keep checking how things are
[17:39] <knome> we're having some cooperation between xubuntu and ubuntu studio since we both use xfce
[17:40] <scott-work> my personal feeling at this point is that ubuntu studio needs active stewardship and vision. we made huge strides up to, and including, 12.04. since then i have been variably inactive and i feel the project has suffered because of this. this project is especially important to me and i am beginning to recommit myself to seeing ubuntu studio develop into what i believe it can be
[17:40] <scott-work> knome: thank you for your comments. i also share the feeling that the cooperative between xubuntu and ubuntu studio has been incredibly rewarding and i look forward to continuing our relationship :)
[17:40] <scott-work> thank you again czajkowski  :)
[17:41] <czajkowski> No problem
[17:41] <scott-work> one particular probelm i think we face is one of defintion
[17:41] <scott-work> the team has previously defined our target audience but i feel we didn't commit with an entirely whole heart
[17:42] <scott-work> especially when you couple this with some of our current promotional statements
[17:43] <scott-work> i am hoping to really clarify the mission of the project and _exactly_ who are target audience
[17:43] <scott-work> this cycle ( i should have added ;) )
[17:43] <pleia2> the Strategy Document for Xubuntu has helped us a ton: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/StrategyDocument
[17:43] <pleia2> makes expectations clear for developers, new contributors and users
[17:43] <knome> definitely.
[17:44] <scott-work> pleia2: i actually have a paper copy of that setting next to me right now! hehe, it has been an exceedingly good reference for me
[17:44] <pleia2> :)
[17:44] <scott-work> i think this is all that i have at this time, unless others have questions
[17:45] <cprofitt> I think it sound like things are going in the right direction scott-work
[17:45] <pleia2> I think I'm good
[17:45] <czajkowski> I'm good also
[17:45] <scott-work> thank you cprofitt :)
[17:45] <knome> one thing you might want to (re)consider is how the leadership structure works in US
[17:45] <czajkowski> thanks scott-work
[17:45] <cprofitt> the target audience and mission will help
[17:45] <cprofitt> thanks scott-work
[17:45] <scott-work> thank you also pleia2 czajkowski
[17:45] <pleia2> thanks scott-work :)
[17:45] <scott-work> knome: that is another task i am schedule to complete this cycle
[17:46] <knome> that sounds good. i think that helped xubuntu (or at least me as the project lead)
[17:48] <knome> scott-work, feel free to be in touch with me if you need any help with the strategy document or any of that stuff
[17:48] <scott-work> knome: thank you! i will certainly take you up on that :)
[17:48] <pleia2> #topic Any other business
[17:48] <knome> np
[17:49] <pleia2> I think the CC todo list is still looking pretty lean post-holidays
[17:49] <pleia2> does anyone else have anything to bring up?
[17:49] <czajkowski> it is up to date
[17:49] <YokoZar> nope
[17:50] <pleia2> ok, next meeting is February 7th where we are looking to meet with the DMB and Docs teams
[17:50] <czajkowski> nods
[17:50] <pleia2> I can take care of post-meeting wiki things in a bit
[17:51] <scott-work> thank you pleia2 , knome , czajkowski cprofitt YokoZar micahg
[17:51] <knome> thanks everybody
[17:51] <pleia2> I think that's it then :)
[17:51] <pleia2> thanks everyone
[17:51] <scott-work> does anyone know where i might find out information about the upcoming uds?
[17:51] <pleia2> scott-work: no news yet
[17:51] <scott-work> i need to schedule vacation from work
[17:51] <YokoZar> Thank you
[17:51] <czajkowski> pleia2: thanks for chairing.
[17:51] <scott-work> :(
[17:51] <pleia2> I don't think the dates have even been announced :(
[17:52] <scott-work> has it been confirmed that it is in the US at least?
[17:52] <pleia2> I don't think so
[17:52] <pleia2> jono: any UDS updates? people are starting to need to schedule time off and we don't even know *when* it is :)
[17:53] <jono> pleia2, funny you should say that, the contract was just signed
[17:53] <pleia2> \o/
[17:53] <jono> so I will be getting an announcement out on Monday
[17:53] <pleia2> great, thanks!
[17:53] <jono> it will be early May and in Oakland
[17:53] <jono> I am just waiting on the website to be updated and reg form set up
[17:53] <scott-work> jono, do you have literally a minute for quick pm?
[17:53] <pleia2> excellent!
[17:54] <jono> scott-work, I have a min, but a meeting in 5 mins
[17:54] <pleia2> (too bad I'll be soaking up the sun somewhere tropical, w00t honeymoon)
[17:54] <pleia2> ok, thanks everyone
[17:54] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[17:54] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan 17 17:54:23 2013 UTC.
[17:54] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-17-17.00.moin.txt
[17:54] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-01-17-17.00.html
[17:54] <jono> pleia2, oh no, shame you won't be there, but glad you will be honeymooning :-)