[07:14] <knightwise> mornin
[08:09] <dwatkins> loes
[08:17] <knightwise> morning dwatkins
[08:31] <meet> what is gambas2-runtime?
[08:33] <directhex> gambas is a visual basic clone
[08:33] <directhex> that package is required files for a gambas app to run
[08:38] <diplo> Morning all
[09:11] <knightwise> hey diplo
[09:28] <daftykins> mornin'
[09:38] <daftykins> my dogs are loonies http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=LpN5xwYnyj8
[09:39] <daftykins> watch the older one, he gets zero traction on that tiled floor and so the puppy a tenth his age drags him around it :>
[10:06] <diplo> heh daftykins, love when dogs do stuff like that
[10:16] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:25] <Azelphur> Potentially controversial question here, but has anyone noticed that 12.10 is terrible?
[10:25] <Azelphur> Every device I've installed it on has had deal breaking issues, mostly not even booting o.O
[10:26] <knightwise> Azelphur:  ?
[10:26] <knightwise> realy , On what devices ?
[10:27] <Azelphur> knightwise: two PC's, one I built X wouldn't start after driver install, another just plain wouldn't boot at all (that's one of those cheap ebuyer zoostorm things)
[10:27] <Azelphur> and on my laptop (Lenovo S205) X only starts intermittently, and nm-applet doesn't work properly (half the time it doesn't show any of the connection options, only enable / disable wifi) and I've seen this on multiple other peoples laptops too.
[10:28] <Azelphur> I don't usually join the "zomg this version sucks" camp, but it literally seems like every machine I try has major issues, was just wondering if anyone else was experiencing that
[10:29] <knightwise> Now I know i"ve also had some issues on my pc running an ATI card , mostly regarding dual screen
[10:29] <knightwise> i'm currently running 12.10 on a last gen macbook air and its perfect.
[10:29] <Azelphur> knightwise: yea, all my "X won't start" woes have been on ATI machines
[10:30] <knightwise> Azelphur: I am however dreading to reinstall it on this machine. Did quite a few tweaks and tricks to get it running just right.
[10:30] <Azelphur> knightwise: yea, that's why I'm avoiding it on my PC :(
[10:30] <knightwise> and since i'm dual booting i'm now running out of space for my home directory .. so I am seriously thinking about nuking OSX on this machine
[10:31] <Azelphur> fun :)
[10:32] <knightwise> yeah . I did an upgrade from 12.04 to 12.10 on the machine and it kinda just works pretty well
[10:32] <knightwise> ironic since this is a mac
[10:34] <jpds> Azelphur: No problems here.
[10:34] <jpds> Azelphur: Sounds like E_USER_ERROR.
[10:34] <Azelphur> jpds: hard to user error a completely fresh install ;)
[10:35] <Azelphur> but yea, guess it just hates me
[10:38] <knightwise> Azelphur: :( I feel your pain
[10:39] <jpds> Azelphur: Buy some certified hardware.
[10:39] <knightwise> thats rediculous
[10:39] <Azelphur> I usually custom build, it's cheaper and you get better bang for buck.
[10:40] <knightwise> Ubuntu should not require "certified" hardare
[10:40] <knightwise> thats not what linux is all about
[10:42] <jpds> knightwise: Disagree, how are you suppose to know what's been QA and tested and sure to work?
[10:42] <jpds> knightwise: And thus fully supportable?
[10:42] <knightwise> thats true... but please no "built for ubuntu" stickers ! :)
[10:43] <knightwise> sounds to windwowzzz-ee
[10:43] <jpds> I quite like the orange "Ubuntu Certified" label on my laptop.
[10:43] <jpds> Azelphur: OK, keep using failing hardware. ;-)
[10:44] <Azelphur> jpds: it's hardly failing, the performance is probably 10x what you have :)
[10:44] <Azelphur> and yea, knightwise++
[10:48] <jpds> Azelphur: My Thinkpad X230?
[10:48] <jpds> Azelphur: No.
[10:49] <Azelphur> HD Graphics 3000 xD
[10:49] <Azelphur> yes.
[10:50] <knightwise> BUt a thinkpad .. of all things , should be certified.
[10:50] <jpds> Azelphur: Actually, it's the 4000.
[10:51] <Azelphur> still, vs a 7970
[10:51] <Azelphur> there will be floor wiping, lots of it.
[10:51] <Azelphur> and what you got in there, some mobile i7?
[10:51] <Azelphur> you really think that's gonna compete with a high end sandy?
[10:51] <Azelphur> or ivy?
[10:52] <jpds> Heh.
[10:53] <Azelphur> I think most of my problems are related to newer ati cards not being supported so well yet, apart from the network-manager issue *shrug*
[10:53] <Azelphur> everything I had issues with was new builds on high end AMD cards, so could explain it I guess
[11:05] <davmor2> Morning all
[11:05] <brobostigon> morning davmor2
[11:12] <darrenF> s
[11:20] <DJones> Morning all
[12:51] <knightwise> question. i've dual booted my macbook Air with OSX and Ubuntu and the drive is getting a little cramped
[12:51] <knightwise> so i'm thinking of removing OSX alltogether and just leaving Ubuntu on it.
[12:51] <knightwise> could I do this using A live USB stick and Gparted ?
[12:52] <jonnymac> Hi guys
[12:53] <jonnymac> Anyone here got experience with webmin? I'm having difficulty finding out what  address to give so that one of my users can log on
[13:02] <jpds> Well, don't use webmin.
[13:04] <knightwise> should be https://ip.of.your.server:10000
[13:04] <knightwise> jpds: be nice !
[13:06] <jpds> !webmin | knightwise
[13:06] <jpds> knightwise: I am being nice, I'm preventing them from bricking their box.
[13:07] <knightwise> Webmin bricks your box ?
[13:07]  * knightwise didnt know that
[13:07] <jpds> knightwise: Potentially.
[13:07] <knightwise> i stand corrected
[14:01] <ali1234> webmin was replaced by something new wasn't it?
[14:02] <dwatkins> swat?
[14:02] <dwatkins> oh, that's just Samba, ignore me
[14:03] <davmor2> ali1234:  it was ebox but I think that has changed it's name now
[14:04] <davmor2> ali1234: http://www.zentyal.org/ I think this is what it is now
[14:04] <AlanBell> that isn't the same thing at all
[14:04] <AlanBell> webmin is more like cpanel I think
[14:12] <davmor2> AlanBell: Zentyal is a similar thing to webmin in that it controls services and gives a nice web gui to do it in, zentyal is aimed more squarely at SMB though where the guy that knows the most about computers gets to admin the server too
[14:34] <NET||abuse>  /join #jquery
[16:17] <Laney> snooooooooooooooooooow stay away until later
[16:17] <Laney> got to bike a few miles to the climbing centre :(
[16:21]  * Laney smacks google's apt repo
[17:04] <davmor2> morning popey
[17:04] <popey> yo
[17:05]  * Laney wibbles
[17:05] <davmor2> popey: oh god 4 days in the states and you think your 'merican
[17:05] <Laney> he's wearing a backwards baseball cap
[17:05] <Laney> i saw it
[17:05] <popey> you shizzle
[17:05] <popey> or something
[17:06] <davmor2> popey: next you'll be out back firing guns till your neck gets tanned ;)
[17:09] <popey> yeeeee haw
[19:48] <meet> for a little while I tried the login without password option from the user account settings. But now i am unable to revert back to the original. On clicking the ask for password on next login it makes me create a new password. I don't want that
[19:49] <popey> meet: is it configured in /etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf
[19:50] <meet> popey: http://dpaste.com/881143/
[19:54] <meet> popey: what changes do i make there?
[19:55] <popey> hmm, maybe not
[19:56] <meet> so what maybe the problem?
[20:00] <davmor2> meet: you have to create a password but you can use the same one I think or have you tried that
[20:08] <GRS> hello?
[20:08] <GRS> anybodt here?
[20:08] <daftykins> yes
[20:08] <daftykins> fail.
[20:09] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[20:12] <meet> davmor2: ya i tried that. that option does not allow me to keep a password less than 8 chars..and actually i don't need that long
[20:14] <daftykins> meet: long pass that much of a hardship?
[20:15] <meet> daftykins: i infact prefer no password. but then the keyring not unlocking problem crops up. moreover if from the root shell i am able to setup a 4 characters long password i don't understand why here it asking for that length?
[20:16] <daftykins> well it's the common disparity between CLI utility and GUI utility
[20:17] <daftykins> but ja, i see your point on the keyring hassle
[20:18] <davmor2> meet: it is trying to establish what a sensible security password is for users that have no clue
[20:19] <meet> infact.. i even tried the solution of not keeping any password for the keyring.. but still at times the error showed up and that time there was noway to unlock the keyring as blank is not accepted.
[20:20] <ali1234> the trick is "sudo passwd <user>"
[20:20] <ali1234> it will warn you about weak passwords
[20:20] <ali1234> but since you are root, it will let you use them anyway
[20:20] <meet> davmor2: also when i did the set password on next login and chose a 8char password. after that entered the root shell and changed my password again. at next login i was logged in without any password and again the annoying keyring problem.
[20:21] <meet> ali1234: i tried that. but at the next login i am either logged in automatically or asked to create a new password.
[20:21] <ali1234> that makes no sense
[20:22] <meet> ali1234: exactly
[20:22] <daftykins> meet: create one that meets the criteria, then bypass it afterward?
[20:22] <meet> daftykins:  i tried that. but at the next login i am either logged in automatically or asked to create a new password.
[20:22] <ali1234> what do you mean "exactly"
[20:22] <daftykins> ah same deal
[20:23] <ali1234> it makes no sense in that what you are saying doesn't match reality
[20:23] <meet> ali1234: it's happening!
[20:23] <ali1234> the system does not know how long your password is unless you type it in
[20:24] <ali1234> it doesn't know what your password is at all
[20:24] <ali1234> if you change your password as root there is no way the system can automatically log you on
[20:24] <ali1234> and it will only ask you to change the password if the existing password has expired
[20:24] <meet> ali1234. at present my password is 4 chars long.
[20:24] <ali1234> and ubuntu does not use password expiry by default
[20:24] <popey> is it "meet"? ☺
[20:24] <meet> i go to the user accounts and ask it set password now.
[20:25] <ali1234> do not use "user accounts"
[20:25] <daftykins> popey: 'teem'
[20:25] <daftykins> 8D
[20:25] <ali1234> that is some ubuntu retardation
[20:25] <meet> no :)
[20:25] <ali1234> disable auto login
[20:25] <ali1234> set password from the shell with sudo
[20:25] <ali1234> check password expiry
[20:25] <meet> ali1234: just a min.
[20:25] <ali1234> log out and log in with your new password
[20:25] <ali1234> if this doesn't work it is a bug
[20:25] <meet> how to disable auto login from terminal
[20:26] <meet> hope that works
[20:26] <ali1234> you don't disable it from the terminal
[20:26] <ali1234> you disable it however you enabled it
[20:26] <ali1234> did you set it on install?
[20:26] <meet> no
[20:27] <ali1234> how did you set it then?
[20:27] <meet> 15 min back.
[20:27] <meet> from settings>user accounts
[20:27] <ali1234> the default is to ask for a password on boot up
[20:27] <meet> yes
[20:27] <meet> from settings>user accounts
[20:28] <meet> from user accounts password menu i selected do not ask for password.
[20:28] <ali1234> do this
[20:28] <ali1234> chage -l meet
[20:28] <ali1234> what does it say?
[20:28] <meet> last password change and other details
[20:29] <ali1234> so does it say your password expired?
[20:29] <meet> no
[20:29] <meet> password expires: never
[20:29] <ali1234> so there's no reason why the greeter would ask you to change your password
[20:29] <ali1234> can you tell me how to reproduce this?
[20:29] <ali1234> what version of ubuntu is it first?
[20:29] <meet> ok
[20:29] <meet> 12.10
[20:30] <ali1234> 64 bit?
[20:30] <meet> 32
[20:30] <ali1234> hmm. well it probably doesn't matter
[20:30] <ali1234> ok, so i'm going to install it in a VM...
[20:31] <ali1234> hmm i don't have that iso
[20:32] <ali1234> ok, downloading it, 32 bit
[20:32] <ali1234> so, how did you install?
[20:33] <ali1234> did you encrypt home directory or anything like that?
[20:33] <meet> no
[20:33] <ali1234> ok. 10 minutes until download finishes... don't go anywhere
[20:34] <meet> i have a normal user account. my password is 4chars long. no big deal. eveything fine. i am asked at the login screen to enter my password. i want the login screen and do not want the password.  so I select from user accounts password: login without a password.  After some restarts at every login i am greeted with a message: keyring did not unlock. so i am like ok you can ask me password at the login screen. so i choose ask for password at next login. but i
[20:34] <meet> t asks me to create a new password. and this time 4chars not allowed. Thus my 4char comfort is snatched away!
[20:35] <ali1234> i see
[20:39] <meet> ali1234: is it ok if i leave?
[20:39] <ali1234> i suppose... :?
[20:39] <meet> ok. how do know if you find a solution?
[20:40] <ali1234> you'll just have to come back and ask?
[20:40] <ali1234> or check the logs
[20:41] <meet> ok. i am pretty sure it's a bug.
[20:41] <meet> what happens when bugs are found?
[20:41] <daftykins> said bug is filed
[20:41] <ali1234> usually nothing :(
[20:41] <daftykins> and in my experience 2 years pass
[20:41] <daftykins> with nary a change
[20:41] <ali1234> if you are lucky there might be an argument
[20:42] <daftykins> ^ this
[20:42] <meet> oh.. i thought it is fixed in the next release or something like that.
[20:42] <ali1234> about who's fault it is
[20:42] <daftykins> then the argument about the way it should be begins
[20:44] <meet> oh.. i thought I had made some contribution to improve ubuntu :D
[20:44] <daftykins> as did i
[20:44] <daftykins> years ago, installing Ubuntu would detect that i'm from Guernsey
[20:44] <daftykins> but it'd auto select a US keyboard instead of US
[20:44] <daftykins> i filed a bug
[20:44] <daftykins> 2+ years passed
[20:44] <daftykins> it sat idle, couple of others agreed once
[20:45] <daftykins> then about 6 releases later it was fixed
[20:45] <daftykins> *shrug*
[20:45] <ali1234> well it could have been worse, you could have got french
[20:45] <meet> sounds like a government office.. where no one cares..
[20:45] <meet> lol
[20:45] <daftykins> that would've been welcome
[20:46] <daftykins> i could've changed my keyboard letters over to AZERTY
[20:46] <daftykins> if they weren't all blank anyway
[20:46] <ali1234> oh you're one of THOSE people
[20:46] <ali1234> i would make it randomly change keyboard layout if it detected on of those blank keyboards plugged in
[20:47] <ali1234> ok, VM booting...
[20:47] <meet> anyways. i am leaving now. thanks. bye
[20:48] <ali1234> i bet isle of man doesn't give the wrong keyboard layout :(
[20:49] <ali1234> ok, i set a 4 char password
[20:50] <daftykins> ali1234: yeah, someone that buys a keyboard and likes to dick over their friends who come by
[21:01] <shauno> that's pretty much my history with bug reports too.  2 years later, someone posted "is this still an issue?"  answer: no, we'd migrated that platform to debian 18 months prior
[21:01] <davmor2> night all
[21:07] <daftykins> shauno: oh dear
[21:07] <BigRedS> shauno: yeah, I'm now filing bug reports in the full expectation that that's the last I'll hear about them
[21:07] <BigRedS> until I rant at somebody that I can't tell which tab I'm on
[21:08] <BigRedS> But it doesn't feel right to rant before I've filed the bug
[21:08] <shauno> well to be fair, it was an xen issue not long after they'd announced they were throwing themselves behind kvm.  just that final reply made me sad
[21:08] <ali1234> i've got a question
[21:08] <ali1234> if i watch pirates of the caribbean movies in the wrong order, will it ruin it?
[21:10] <shauno> if you watch the fourth one (at all, in order or not), it'll ruin everything.  other than that, I don't really think so
[21:12] <dwatkins> I barely remember the plots of them.
[21:12] <ali1234> shauno: because the fourth one is really bad?
[21:13] <shauno> really may be an understatement
[21:17] <meet> Ali1234 is it a bug?
[21:17] <ali1234> don't know yet
[21:18] <ali1234> it's still installing
[21:21] <meet> Ok just let me know when you are done.
[21:22] <ali1234> ok i am in user accounts
[21:22] <ali1234> there is a slider "automatic login"
[21:22] <ali1234> so i unlock it
[21:22] <ali1234> move the slider to on
[21:24] <ali1234> restart VM...
[21:24] <meet> No
[21:24] <meet> Not that slider. When you click on your password it gives you some nation's
[21:25] <meet> Options*
[21:26] <ali1234> "login without password" ok
[21:26] <ali1234> restart VM...
[21:27] <daftykins> why would it be in two places 0o
[21:27] <ali1234> ok logged in without password
[21:28] <ali1234> as a result, i cannot use sudo any more, because it requires me to type in a password
[21:28] <meet> No try to undo that. There should be a direct option to just start asking password again as it stopped.
[21:29] <ali1234> i also cannot unlock the user accounts panel
[21:29] <meet> Ya
[21:29] <ali1234> i can attempt t change password thoough
[21:29] <ali1234> but i cannot enter 4 character password
[21:30] <meet> Ya which it initially allowed
[21:30] <ali1234> no, it won't let me change password
[21:31] <ali1234> "change" is just grey
[21:31] <meet> Ya on hovering over change it says password too short
[21:32] <ali1234> when i enter a password which is "long enough" it says "you need to enter your current password" - which is blank
[21:34] <ali1234> i can set password from the terminal with passwd though
[21:35] <ali1234> it knows not to ask for existing password
[21:35] <ali1234> however, it wants longer than 4 characters
[21:35] <ali1234> so i enter a long password
[21:35] <ali1234> then sudo passwd al
[21:35] <ali1234> enter the long password i just set
[21:35] <meet> It allowed me to enter a 4char password from the terminal
[21:35] <ali1234> then enter the 4 character password
[21:36] <ali1234> now restart VM
[21:36] <daftykins> this is exciting
[21:36] <daftykins> (genuinely)
[21:37] <ali1234> and no i logged in without a password
[21:37] <meet> Exactly
[21:37] <ali1234> well that is messed up
[21:37] <ali1234> my password is now "test"
[21:37] <ali1234> i can sudo
[21:37] <ali1234> when i log in i am not asked for a password
[21:38] <ali1234> i am not asked to change the password
[21:38] <ali1234> it's not "automatic login" because that doesn't show the greeter at all
[21:38] <meet> Ya
[21:38] <ali1234> and it's not "login without a password" because that sets your password blank
[21:38] <ali1234> i will report this bug for you :)
[21:38] <ali1234> this is severaly messed up
[21:39] <ali1234> probably more than a single bug
[21:39] <daftykins> daym
[21:39] <ali1234> i can think of at least 3
[21:39] <meet> :-) first contribution... Lol! Feels nice :-D
[21:42] <daftykins> meet: if you get the bug numbers off ali1234 once he's created them, you too can watch with baited breath as they - well actually they might well fare better than our ignored ones :>
[21:43] <meet> :-)
[21:44] <daftykins> nn all \o
[21:46] <ali1234> i should update the VM first i guess
[21:47] <ali1234> hmm lots of updates
[21:48] <daftykins> doh
[21:50] <meet> Ok cya gud nite ali1234 daftykins
[22:13] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/accountsservice/+bug/1043349
[22:13] <ali1234> one already reported
[22:16] <ali1234> second also already reported https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/ubiquity/+bug/1070449
[22:16] <ali1234> confirming
[22:17] <ali1234> wait, why is it against ubiquity?
[22:29] <ali1234> bug 1100989
[22:29] <ali1234> third and final bug reported
[22:31] <ali1234> bugs bugs bugs
[22:33] <popey> thanks ali1234
[22:35] <ali1234> Popey: do you think the second and/or third should be against accountsservice?
[22:36] <ali1234> i moved the ubiquity one to gnome-control-center but accountsservice might be more appropriate... but i don't know what that even is
[22:39] <ali1234> Azelphur: you use XFCE and mythtv right? how do you get the XFCE panel to not cover myth-frontend?
[22:41] <ali1234> maybe it is a compiz problem?
[22:43] <ali1234> confirmed, it does not happen with metacity
[22:45] <ali1234> i need to purge unity-team sru ppa before i can report this :(
[22:52] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-panel/+bug/1100999
[23:05] <czajkowski> evening
[23:26] <beatsonline> popey, How's the phone gig going ??
[23:26] <beatsonline> czajkowski: Hi there ..
[23:31] <popey> beatsonline: fun!
[23:31] <beatsonline> Also, QUESTION :: How do capture a screenshot of certain part of the screen ??
[23:31] <beatsonline> good going popey..
[23:33] <popey> beatsonline: shutter
[23:50] <beatsonline> popey, It would be nice to get a google plus tech. photo album of several shots of the phone .. it's good for me to put comments onto your pictures for QnA , and possible feedback .. I'd love to see that, if you possibly can, but I know it's time consuming..
[23:52] <popey> i dont think we have any marketing pictures other than the ones on the site already