| micahg | jtaylor: I don't mind rebuilding imagemagick, what's being dropped? | 01:14 |
|---|---|---|
| micahg | jtaylor: nevermind, I can use tools to figure it out | 01:15 |
| micahg | jtaylor: only edubuntu and ubuntustudio seems to be affected (well, mythbuntu also, but they're not releasing ISOs) | 01:18 |
| === hrww is now known as hrw | ||
| dholbach | good morning | 07:49 |
| dholbach | debfx, directhex, DktrKranz: could one of you imagine teaming up with bdrung for the Developers Roundtable at UDW (Thu 31st Jan, 19:00 UTC), which will mostly be a Q&A session where everybody can ask their questions about Ubuntu Development in general? | 08:13 |
| iulian | Morning dholbach. | 08:37 |
| dholbach | hey iulian | 08:37 |
| dholbach | iulian, ^ maybe you could be interested in joining bdrung? :) | 08:37 |
| iulian | Nop, can't do that unfortunately. :( | 08:38 |
| dholbach | no worries, I hope we find somebody else | 08:39 |
| iulian | I'm sure there's someone out there with more free time than me. ;) | 08:39 |
| dholbach | there's 18:30 UTC (30m session) on that day we still have to find a speaker for too - we were thinking of either a demo of fixing a small bug or a walk through a few places to check for stuff to work on | 08:40 |
| === zequence_ is now known as zequence | ||
| Rhonda | *sigh* | 09:54 |
| Rhonda | People mail me that the packages.ubuntu.com site uses the old favicon - but noone tells me where to get the new one. | 09:54 |
| Rhonda | And strangely, chrome doesn't display it to me on the www.ubuntu.com neither. | 09:54 |
| tumbleweed | I see it in FF | 09:55 |
| Rhonda | Or on www.debian.org *puzzled* | 09:55 |
| tumbleweed | www.ubuntu.com/sites/all/themes/ubuntu10/favicon.ico according to the source | 09:55 |
| Rhonda | Yep, found it in the source. | 09:55 |
| === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan | ||
| Rhonda | But it's still a bit … well. *sigh* :) | 09:56 |
| MCR1 | notgary: Hi :) If you are still searching for bitesize Compiz bugs for papercutters, here is quite a bunch of those: https://bugs.launchpad.net/compiz/+bugs?field.tag=coverity | 10:35 |
| MCR1 | notgary: They seem to be ideal for newbies, because the whole sourcecode is Coverity commented and pretty self-explainatory, but ofc there might be false positives among those as well... | 10:36 |
| MCR1 | notgary: This was just FYI, if you want to concentrate on other projects first, then no problem either - but feel free to use those, if you are on papercutters-bug-shortage ;) | 10:39 |
| MCR1 | dholbach: Hi :) How many contributions to Ubuntu does one have to make until a packaging wish gets fulfilled for free ;) ? | 10:47 |
| MCR1 | dholbach: I am missing https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emerald/+bug/968112 :) | 10:49 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 968112 in emerald (Ubuntu) "Emerald (the original Compiz Window Decorator) not available in Precise and Quantal, while it was working on all Ubuntu versions before [needs-packaging]" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 10:49 |
| === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ | ||
| xnox | MCR1: made a comment on the bug. Please provide requested information (it's mostly treasure-hunt / google-foo) =) | 11:47 |
| === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw | ||
| === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ | ||
| === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw | ||
| MCR1 | xnox: This was not the solution I expected. Please read https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/emerald/+bug/968112/comments/7 | 12:55 |
| ubottu | Ubuntu bug 968112 in emerald (Ubuntu) "Emerald (the original Compiz Window Decorator) not available in Precise and Quantal, while it was working on all Ubuntu versions before [needs-packaging]" [Wishlist,Incomplete] | 12:55 |
| MCR1 | xnox: I am running Emerald on Raring with latest Compiz/Unity and did so on Precise and Quantal as well | 12:56 |
| ogra_ | MCR1, the point is that there will be nobody fixing bugs, the code was put to death by its developers | 12:59 |
| ogra_ | so even if it builds and runs on all supported arches (which i highly doubt for arm or powerpc), it would just rot in the archive | 13:00 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: Has every program for Ubuntu now to run on the Ubuntu phone ? | 13:01 |
| ogra_ | ?? | 13:01 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: Then you would have to remove a lot more packages from the repos... | 13:01 |
| ogra_ | no, the phoine wont run most apps, it doesnt run an X server afaik | 13:01 |
| ogra_ | what has the phone to do with it ? | 13:02 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: The point is: there is currently no replacement equal to or even better than Emerald and it still works, so why throw it out ? | 13:04 |
| ogra_ | because its developers consider it dead | 13:04 |
| ogra_ | and it diodnt build on all arches ... since there was no developer for fixing it, it had to be removed from the archive | 13:04 |
| MCR1 | well, I would fix potential problems... | 13:05 |
| ogra_ | so first make sure to have the FTBFS fixed then | 13:06 |
| MCR1 | the build log from the bug is from a wrong version of Emerald btw - seems to be the non C++ branch | 13:06 |
| MCR1 | well, as I told you: I can build it without problems | 13:07 |
| ogra_ | create a PPA, ask the launchpad team for powerpc and armhf support for it, make sure it builds in all arches | 13:07 |
| ogra_ | alternatively just convince debian to ship it and it will automatically be synced from there | 13:08 |
| ogra_ | but its very unlikely debian will allow it in if it is an abandoned project upstream | 13:08 |
| tumbleweed | (and of course you'd get push-back in Ubuntu for that too) | 13:09 |
| * ogra_ wouldnt push back if someone can actually proof he can take over upstream fixing and packaging for all arches and bugs | 13:10 | |
| tumbleweed | in which case, it should totally be in Debian :) | 13:10 |
| ogra_ | but thats indeed a quite advanced and likely also time consuming full time job :) | 13:10 |
| MCR1 | okay, guess I'll try to chat with some of the Debian packagers then - thanks | 13:11 |
| tumbleweed | if there were historically problems buildign it on other archs | 13:11 |
| ogra_ | i bet they will tell you the same, but good luck | 13:11 |
| tumbleweed | I'd start by seeinf if those are still issues | 13:11 |
| tumbleweed | it's easy enough to build for ARM with qemu | 13:11 |
| ogra_ | right, thats why i suggested a PPA | 13:11 |
| MCR1 | tumbleweed: The initial problem was just a linker error | 13:12 |
| ogra_ | now that you can have armhf ... | 13:12 |
| MCR1 | then it got removed | 13:12 |
| ogra_ | it didnt build and nobody wanted to fix it | 13:13 |
| MCR1 | it was working and available until 11.10 and first noone knew how to fix it | 13:13 |
| ogra_ | (note that between opening of the bug and removing the package there were 6 weeks) | 13:13 |
| ogra_ | nobody bothered to fix it and there was no upstream anymore ... we dont allow packages in the archive that dont build | 13:14 |
| tumbleweed | we have hundreds of packages that fail to build, each release. The few people that care don't have time to fix them all | 13:14 |
| ogra_ | right | 13:14 |
| MCR1 | then someone found out how to fix it and I added this information, but later nothing happened | 13:14 |
| ogra_ | and what cant be fixed and has no chance to be fixed through upstreams will be removed | 13:15 |
| tumbleweed | because if we bring it back - there's still no upstream, so it's just a matter of time before it breaks again, and we have to deal with it | 13:15 |
| ogra_ | MCR1, ?? i dont see any other comment in the bug | 13:15 |
| MCR1 | all I am asking you is helping me get this package back in as I am no packager and have no packaging skills | 13:15 |
| ogra_ | doko obviously opened it on 2011-08-22 ... there were no comments on it until the package was removed 6 weeks later | 13:16 |
| ogra_ | MCR1, well, that can only happen if someone fixes it | 13:16 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: You are right -> it took some time until we found out the fix for the failing compilation | 13:16 |
| ogra_ | MCR1, the last comment on the bug is from 2011-09-29 | 13:17 |
| ogra_ | and there were no further ones until you commented a few mins ago | 13:17 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: I've now added detailed instructions - I did not know about this bug | 13:17 |
| ogra_ | detailed instructions ? | 13:18 |
| ogra_ | git checkout and make dont really help | 13:18 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: I made my own one here bug 968112 | 13:18 |
| ubottu | bug 968112 in emerald (Ubuntu) "Emerald (the original Compiz Window Decorator) not available in Precise and Quantal, while it was working on all Ubuntu versions before [needs-packaging]" [Wishlist,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/968112 | 13:18 |
| ogra_ | someone needs to make a new upstream release of emerald, someone else needs to package it | 13:18 |
| ogra_ | and it needs to build on all arches | 13:19 |
| ogra_ | thats not a trivial task | 13:19 |
| MCR1 | I have only x86 | 13:19 |
| MCR1 | :( | 13:19 |
| ogra_ | use a PPA then | 13:19 |
| * ogra_ thinks we talk in circles since a while | 13:19 | |
| MCR1 | ok, thx 4 the help | 13:20 |
| ogra_ | make it build and provide a debdiff, find an upstream dev or find a packager who is willing to take the heavylifting | 13:20 |
| MCR1 | thx | 13:20 |
| === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ | ||
| MCR1 | ogra_: Does it help to have a PPA for i386 and amd64 maintained builds for Precise and Quantal ? | 13:36 |
| MCR1 | lp user ~brainpower is maintaining such a PPA, here the Quantal builds: https://launchpad.net/~brainpower/+archive/testing/+sourcepub/2745472/+listing-archive-extra | 13:37 |
| ogra_ | well, make him build for armhf and ppc too | 13:39 |
| MCR1 | I do not think that this will be easily possible, is this support essential ? | 13:40 |
| ogra_ | well, you need to make sure it builds on all arches | 13:41 |
| tumbleweed | ogra_: AFAIK nan-canonical people can't get ppc access | 13:41 |
| tumbleweed | we don't have emulated ppc | 13:41 |
| ogra_ | oh, ibthought ppc builds in containers too now | 13:42 |
| tumbleweed | maybe I haven't been following *that* closely | 13:42 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: In Compiz we have plugins that are only built for amd64/i386 and won't work and thus are not compiled and packaged for arm/GLES | 13:42 |
| tumbleweed | but I certainly don't see ppc ppa builders | 13:42 |
| ogra_ | well, i'm probably ahead of time here... UDS smoking corner marketingvtalks ;) | 13:43 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: That is why I asked if all packages nowadays need to run on arm also ? | 13:43 |
| ogra_ | MCR1, yes | 13:43 |
| MCR1 | I bet there are a ton of exceptions for this rule | 13:44 |
| ogra_ | not really... | 13:44 |
| MCR1 | no more glscreensaver for example ? | 13:45 |
| ogra_ | on hw that has no gl thats moot | 13:45 |
| MCR1 | remove all OpenGL applications ? | 13:45 |
| ogra_ | why ? | 13:45 |
| MCR1 | You really must be joking now | 13:45 |
| ogra_ | sw rendering works on arm | 13:45 |
| MCR1 | OpenGL != GLES | 13:46 |
| ogra_ | just not fast | 13:46 |
| ogra_ | and ? | 13:46 |
| xnox | MCR1: the replacements are the gtk & kde window decorator bridges + themes. | 13:46 |
| ogra_ | mesa = mesa ;) | 13:46 |
| xnox | MCR1: with respect to "solution", it simply means that it's underlinked and those two libs need to be either added at configure.ac / Makefile.am level, or potentially they are in the wrong order and need to come later. | 13:47 |
| ogra_ | which is an upstream task | 13:47 |
| xnox | MCR1: with a proper patch & autoreconf, it might go into universe or something like that. | 13:47 |
| ogra_ | right | 13:48 |
| xnox | ogra_: we patch a lot of packages like that =))))) | 13:48 |
| MCR1 | xnox: that would be great news :) | 13:48 |
| ogra_ | as i said. provide a debdiff and make sure it builds | 13:48 |
| ogra_ | (on all arches indeed) | 13:49 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: This is no attack, I am just wondering: http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/xscreensaver-gl | 13:52 |
| MCR1 | Where are the arm builds ? | 13:52 |
| Laney | hmm? | 13:52 |
| Laney | I don't think we have any hard and fast requirement about that | 13:53 |
| MCR1 | it would be quite ugly for the repos... | 13:53 |
| Laney | ensuring ongoing maintenance is more interesting IME | 13:53 |
| ogra_ | MCR1, on launchpad | 13:53 |
| ogra_ | you use the wrong tool, packages.u.c is a third party service only listing x86 arches | 13:54 |
| MCR1 | ah, ok | 13:54 |
| === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw | ||
| tumbleweed | erm, that's not entirely accurate. it's on ubuntu.com and hosted on canonical servers, we can't call it a third party service | 13:56 |
| tumbleweed | but yes, it builds on armhf https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/precise/armhf/xscreensaver-gl | 13:56 |
| ogra_ | oh, ssince when ? | 13:57 |
| ogra_ | it used to be run by abdebian guy in the past, when wasbit moved ? | 13:57 |
| MCR1 | ogra_: I could find them on launchpad, thx 4 the info. | 13:57 |
| tumbleweed | as long as I've know it... And yes, it is run by Rhonda, who is more a debian person | 13:57 |
| * Rhonda hides | 13:58 | |
| MCR1 | ogra_: I will try my best to meet Emerald requirements (might take a while though...) | 13:58 |
| ogra_ | hmm, i'm probably to long in this business | 13:58 |
| Rhonda | MCR1, arm is not part of the official pool, is it. | 13:59 |
| ogra_ | iit is | 13:59 |
| Rhonda | I don't see arm in http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/ | 13:59 |
| tumbleweed | and no, there is no requirement that every package build on every arch. But it's preferred. | 13:59 |
| ogra_ | since 5 releases | 13:59 |
| Rhonda | ogra_, isn't | 13:59 |
| tumbleweed | Rhonda: it's on ports.ubuntu.com | 13:59 |
| Rhonda | tumbleweed: That's a seperate pool, thanks for proving my point. | 13:59 |
| tumbleweed | internally to LP, they are the same pool | 13:59 |
| Laney | can you get at an internal mirror from the packages.u.c box? | 14:00 |
| tumbleweed | it gets split out before it hits the primary public mirror | 14:00 |
| Laney | where they are in the same pool | 14:00 |
| ogra_ | Rhonda, it is officialnsince lucid | 14:00 |
| === Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio_ | ||
| Rhonda | ogra_, http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/ doesn't have it neither. | 14:00 |
| ogra_ | but will never move to archive.u.c | 14:00 |
| Rhonda | Thanks again for proving my point. | 14:00 |
| Laney | it's to do with usage not officialdom | 14:00 |
| ogra_ | it is a 100% officially supported arch nontheless | 14:00 |
| Rhonda | Why isn't it in the same pool then but in ports? | 14:01 |
| ogra_ | wejust dont move it to save mirrors from complaining,mits avtech reason we wont mobe itto archive.u.c | 14:01 |
| Laney | parse error | 14:02 |
| ogra_ | sorry, typing on a nexus7 here | 14:02 |
| Rhonda | Me too :) | 14:02 |
| ogra_ | we just dont move it to save mirror admins from complaining, its a tech reason we wont move it to archive.u.c | 14:02 |
| Rhonda | Then it's the same tech reason it's not included in pkg.u.c | 14:03 |
| ogra_ | but itis a fully supported arch nontheless | 14:03 |
| ogra_ | with 5 years support etc yadda yadda | 14:03 |
| ogra_ | (LTS supported only since precise though) | 14:04 |
| Rhonda | If someone would like to sponsor my efforts along that lines I would be willing to invest more time into the packages code. Unfortunately my time is limited and I have to take care for my kid and pay back loan. | 14:04 |
| ogra_ | we all do .., sadly :/ | 14:04 |
| tumbleweed | knowing nothing about canonical infrastructure, is there a full mirror available to it? | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | full as in including ports | 14:06 |
| ogra_ | nope | 14:06 |
| tumbleweed | because that would make it easy | 14:06 |
| ogra_ | persia knows a few unofficial asian ports mirrors iirc | 14:07 |
| tumbleweed | yeah, it's not hard to reassemble one | 14:07 |
| ogra_ | but beyind that there arent any officilly | 14:07 |
| Rhonda | tumbleweed: Well, taking everything from ports isn't something I fancy. Are really all archs on ports officially supported ones? | 14:09 |
| ogra_ | ppc and armhf are | 14:09 |
| tumbleweed | and armel went away | 14:09 |
| Rhonda | Hm, and those are the only two I see for raring. | 14:09 |
| ogra_ | armel not | 14:09 |
| Rhonda | Was armel official in lucid? ia64? sparc? | 14:10 |
| Rhonda | Thing is, deciding which are officially supported and which are not from having all in the same pool is fishing for problems. | 14:10 |
| ogra_ | armel, no ppc and no sparc/ia64 iirc | 14:10 |
| Rhonda | Would require load of additional complexity in the code. | 14:10 |
| Rhonda | If the official ones could be moved to archive and the inofficial be kept on ports, there would be code to work with that. | 14:11 |
| tumbleweed | presumably at some point, we'll have to move armhf to archive.u.c | 14:11 |
| tumbleweed | (or arm64 by then...) | 14:11 |
| ogra_ | iirc there are some tools in ubuntu-dev-tools tobfind whatsnsupported | 14:11 |
| Rhonda | And additional complexity only for the reason "to save mirror admins from complaining" | 14:11 |
| Rhonda | I dislike such decisions. They make things just unneeded complicated. :/ | 14:12 |
| tumbleweed | ogra_: not that I know of | 14:12 |
| tumbleweed | (but that was supposed to happen as the next stage of reorg...) | 14:12 |
| * ogra_ didnt make that decision, i would love to see my arm work on a.u.c | 14:12 | |
| tumbleweed | I assume at some point the traffic on ports will become unmanageable | 14:13 |
| tumbleweed | (unless all vendors do their own thing) | 14:13 |
| ogra_ | but it has been discussed each release for the past 4 years | 14:13 |
| ogra_ | and hasnt moved til today | 14:13 |
| tumbleweed | anyway, there is no requirement that every package build on every arch. But it's preferred. In Debain, I port my packages to all the archs I can | 14:14 |
| ogra_ | so i wouldnt expectthat to happen in the near future either | 14:14 |
| Rhonda | The much I hate making you feel bad for your work because it doesn't receive the publicity it deserves, the much I go with the pragmatic approach here: Not working around that issue might increase the preassure on them to get it in. | 14:14 |
| ogra_ | tumbleweed, i wouldnt let a package in if it wouldnt buildon all arches | 14:15 |
| ogra_ | Rhonda, heh,i didnt mean to push you there :) | 14:15 |
| tumbleweed | ogra_: in this case, I'd agree with you | 14:16 |
| ogra_ | i was just stating the fact that o.u.c only has x86 | 14:16 |
| ogra_ | *p.u.c | 14:16 |
| Rhonda | Yep. And I've heard that before. My plan is to activate the "debports" part for ports.u.c to include them that way. | 14:21 |
| Rhonda | It would show the archs on the packages lists, but explicitly state them as "(unofficial port)" | 14:21 |
| Rhonda | That's the best I can offer on more-or-less short term. | 14:22 |
| tumbleweed | being accurate about the officialness and canonical-supportability isn't that important on packages.u.c | 14:22 |
| tumbleweed | (to me) | 14:22 |
| xnox | Rhonda: armhf is official, despite living on ports. | 14:29 |
| xnox | Rhonda: the ports vs archive split is pure disk space management for mirrors. | 14:29 |
| xnox | Rhonda: just list them all, without any labels =) | 14:30 |
| tumbleweed | I assume that requires more work | 14:30 |
| Rhonda | xnox: Do you say so with your canonical hat on? :) | 14:33 |
| xnox | Rhonda: yes =) | 14:34 |
| xnox | Rhonda: also documented here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SecurityTeam/FAQ#Architectures | 14:35 |
| xnox | Rhonda: "While ARMEL and ARMHF are listed in ports.ubuntu.com for this release, they should be considered supported architectures" | 14:35 |
| Rhonda | AHAH! | 14:36 |
| Rhonda | "maintenance is best-effort" | 14:36 |
| tumbleweed | see footnote 4 | 14:36 |
| xnox | Rhonda: but i think footnote 4 overrides that =) | 14:36 |
| ogra_ | it does | 14:36 |
| Rhonda | xnox: Yes, but that's a specific statement for those two archs, not a general one. | 14:37 |
| Rhonda | And that's where it gets tricky. | 14:37 |
| xnox | Rhonda: yeah, hence why I explicetly said "Rhonda: armhf is official, despite living on ports." | 14:37 |
| xnox | since armel is dropped in raring now anyway. | 14:37 |
| Rhonda | You also said "just list them all, without any labels =)" | 14:38 |
| ogra_ | erm, the release manifest linked is outdated | 14:38 |
| xnox | Rhonda: list them all without goind down the path of labeling something offices vs unofficial. It gets tricky very quickly and not as clear cut as ports vs archive. | 14:38 |
| xnox | since some ports at some point in time have or hasn't been "official" | 14:38 |
| ogra_ | yeah, powerpc was on and off | 14:39 |
| xnox | Rhonda: anyway p.u.c is very useful =) and the more it lists the better. | 14:40 |
| Rhonda | Well … http://www.amazon.de/registry/wishlist/3UJMXUVWGN7Y9/ *whistlesinnocently* ;) | 14:45 |
| Rhonda | No, I'll look into (ab)using the debports port for getting the ports stuff in. And I need to look why the package descriptions are NOT appearing anymore on the site. %-/ | 14:47 |
| xnox | Rhonda: this seems appropriate "Getting Things Done. The Art of Stress-Free Productivity" | 14:48 |
| * Rhonda nods | 14:52 | |
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