/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/01/23/#ubuntustudio-devel.txt

zequenceI realized it might be worth having a script for setting up a developer environment00:06
zequenceI'm working on a ubuntustudio-devel "package"00:07
zequenceor, I should probably call it ubuntustudio-dev-tools00:07
zequenceWill create a bzr branch for it, once it's usable for something00:09
micahg!info packaging-dev00:28
ubottupackaging-dev (source: packaging-dev): convenient tools to develop packages. In component universe, is optional. Version 0.5 (quantal), package size 2 kB, installed size 26 kB00:28
micahgzequence: ^^00:44
zequencemicahg: Thanks. My script will also help check the system for gpg, ssh, variables, and let the user add things that are missing. If I were to make a package out of it, I'd have it depend on existing dev packages. I wasn't aware of this one, actually.01:00
zequenceThere are two reasons for the extra help. 1. make new developers aware of what they need. 2. the script can be used just to check if all is in place01:01
micahgzequence: ok, maybe such a script could live in ubuntu-dev-tools if sufficiently geenric01:04
micahg*generic01:04
zequencemicahg: Should work. But, now that you mentioned that package, I should probably look through the available tools first :).01:07
zequenceLike "setup-packaging-environment"01:09
micahgmight work for packaging-dev as well01:10
zequenceI think most of what I was considering might. But, if I add bzr stuff, then it might better belong in ubuntu-dev-tools. I could also split things up. And if it gets really specific, than perhaps a ubuntustudio-dev-tools, or just a downloadable script could depend on those01:15
zequenceI think the only really non generic thing I was considering was ensuring there was some kind of keyring in place. I forget exactly where there might be problems for the inexperienced. Need to set up a system from scratch and see. 01:17
zequenceWell, maybe not non-generic. And it would be selectable, as everything else01:18
astraljavaHey guys, haven't read this myself, yet, but might have some good tips on the graphics side of things: http://bit.ly/V69PI907:29
astraljavaTitle is 'Professional Graphics Creation on Linux'.07:30
zequenceastraljava: Something I've seen before is people recommending Krita11:23
zequenceI'm thinking of ways to enhance information flow directed towards us regarding linux multimedia11:24
zequenceG+ has some great pages for that, which I do subscribe to11:24
zequenceI'm thinking of creating other google based feeds11:24
astraljavaSounds good. If you can make it public, please do share.11:25
zequenceastraljava: found this https://code.google.com/apis/console/. An explanation on how to create a rss feed on a search http://www.labnol.org/internet/rss-feeds-for-google-searches/19944/11:28
zequenceAh, need to go. will have to look at that when I return11:29
astraljavazequence: Cool beans, thanks!11:34
smartboyhwHello ScottL 14:16
smartboyhwscott-work, hello14:25
* smartboyhw found out he said hello to the wrong place:P14:25
scott-workgood morning smartboyhw 14:28
* smartboyhw is happy now he knew how to update packages:P14:31
scott-workhow do you update packages?14:37
smartboyhwscott-work, actually I found it on developer.ubuntu.com and played with a package14:38
smartboyhwcalled rt-tests14:38
smartboyhwGot sponsored just a few hours ago14:38
scott-worksuper cool then14:39
smartboyhwscott-work, BTW the team structure that you posted in your blog, I just can't understand the right hand side of it14:41
zequencesmartboyhw: How did you update it? Did you request a sync from Debian?14:41
smartboyhwzequence, no. Look at the bottom part of http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-merging.html (sid is just outdated for 2 releases)14:43
smartboyhwAnyway, DON'T TRY:P14:43
smartboyhwGee looking at the "lunchtime thoughts" and then probably zequence will have 3 positions as leads (tech, kernel, doc)14:44
zequencesmartboyhw: Please do not update packages in Ubuntu repos just for fun. If you want them updated, do it in Debian. Then request a sync14:44
zequencesmartboyhw: There is someone responsible of that package in Debian probably14:44
zequenceIf Debian is behind, find out why, and if you really need a package updated, try to make it happen in Debian14:45
smartboyhwzequence, I did ping that guy, and he said he will probably have the update in sid some three months after the debian freeze lifted.....14:45
zequenceAnd Experimental?14:46
scott-worksmartboyhw: sorry, was planning on responding on g+, which i still probably will15:01
scott-worksmartboyhw: i was graphically showing (to myself) how the various teams would be included in each other15:02
smartboyhwscott-work, oh15:02
scott-workright now it's a mess and i screwed up by accepting a few invitations which put -devel as a team of other teams, which i don't agree with now15:03
scott-worke.g. the -nightly team should be a member of -devel IMO, not the other way around15:03
smartboyhwscott-work, well then do you think that pic is good enough?15:07
* smartboyhw is in crisis mode for clashing QA sessions with Developer Week15:08
smartboyhwlol15:08
scott-worksmartboyhw: good enough for what? i was just sharing my personal brainstorming15:11
smartboyhwscott-work, good enough for real world team planning:15:11
smartboyhw:p15:11
scott-workmy next step is to write a few sentence as the purpose for each team15:11
scott-workonce i do that then i would post a more formalized version to the -devel mailing list15:11
scott-workasking for opinions and suggestions15:11
scott-workoh, i should point out that the names that are listed by teams are basically people who are functioning (say they want to function) in those capacities15:15
scott-work....and that was literally a fifteen minute exercise to organize my thoughts on what the teams are, what teams _should_ be15:18
zequencescott-work: I'd really like to talk about switching the desktop background for next release16:03
zequenceThe idea of it is nice, but the resolution is not that great16:04
zequenceBecomes more apparent on a bigger screen16:04
zequencescott-work: I've noticed you'd like more community input. I guess you were looking for art as well. 16:05
zequenceI mean, from looking at the blueprints16:05
zequenceI forget the details. Don't really want to dive too deeply into it. 16:06
zequenceAs for art, I only feel strongly about changing the wallpaper16:06
scott-workzequence: i don't personally have any problem changing the background, do you have any suggestions at this time?16:37
zequencescott-work: Nope16:38
zequencescott-work: I guess it would make sense to have some sort of a submission thing, with a deadline16:38
zequenceWe could post about it on all the channels we have, and mail lists16:39
scott-workzequence: there are a few other items that i would like to address before getting into the art stuff from the blueprints, but i not only agree about posting on the channels, i had planned to do this is the next week or so16:56
zequencescott-work: All right :)16:57
zequenceprogress on -controls has really been slow. I should try to whip something up now. Actually wrote some c code not long ago, to check the values for rtprio and memlock17:51
zequenceIf I can just get the realtime admin part into shape, with the gui, I feel it's enough to push it.17:52
falktx...hmm21:54
falktxzequence: wasn't there some kind of meeting happening?21:55
len-1304falktx, Last thursday?21:55
ScottLfalktx, would you like to have a meeting? we can do that :)21:55
ScottLhiya len-1304 21:55
falktxkinda, yes21:55
falktxhey ScottL, hey all21:55
falktxdamn I've been so busy... sorry everyone21:55
len-1304OK, I have about 15min.21:56
ScottLfalktx, was there something particular you wanted to discuss?21:56
falktxyes, Cadence :)21:56
falktxthe first tools in here: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications21:56
len-1304Must be ready to go?21:56
falktxI'm shaping them for release, v1.021:56
len-1304Great!21:57
falktxI had issues with my c++ code for my plugin host21:57
falktxso I've put that into a separate project21:57
falktxthere's nothing stopping the release now, aside from a few unimplemented things21:57
len-1304So long as they don't show in the menus that should not be a problem21:58
ScottLcool21:58
len-1304falktx, Are you releasing them through debian or directto ubuntu?21:58
falktxlen-1304: I want them in debian21:58
len-1304Good idea.21:58
falktxis it too late?21:58
ScottLthat's good, you will reach a lot of people that way (including the ubuntu ones)21:59
len-1304never too late :)   Too late for what?21:59
* falktx prepapes PPA packages for testing, 0 external depencies21:59
falktxlen-1304: for 13.04 repo inclusion21:59
len-1304I don't think so.22:00
zequencefalktx: Are you pushing it to Debian?22:00
zequenceAh, you said that22:00
len-1304There is no alpha date this time.22:00
zequenceThere is a feature freeze, as always22:00
falktxthis week I'm finishing my plugin host code, but next week I have time for Cadence22:01
len-1304When?22:01
falktxzequence: when ?22:01
falktxhehe22:01
len-1304My when was for FF22:01
zequencefalktx: March 7th22:01
falktxah, plenty of time!22:01
zequencefalktx: Ah, no22:01
zequencefalktx: There's a Debian import freeze before that22:02
falktxScottL: let me prepare some base packages. I would like to discuss Cadence inclusion on UbuntuStudio later on22:02
zequencefalktx: Don't know if we can make an exception22:02
falktxzequence: oh, when is that?22:02
zequenceFebruary 14th22:02
zequencehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule22:02
len-1304could they be released to both debian and ubuntu?22:03
zequenceWe might be able to request a sync if the deadline is not met22:03
falktxlen-1304: yes, my target is to get them into debian first, then backport to 13.0422:03
falktxbut I have 0 experience getting a package into debian22:03
ScottLsorry, back. falktx you should talk with alessio from debian multimedia, he can probably help quite a bit22:04
len-1304I haven't either.22:04
ScottLthe debian multimedia guys are _very_ passionate about packaging and providing help to get packages in22:04
ScottLfalktx, is cadence "debianized"?22:05
ScottLmeaning, does it have the changelog, control file, etc?22:05
falktxyes, it's already in KXStudio so it's already debian-ready22:05
falktxas much as my debian packaging skills go...22:06
ScottLheh, yeah. duh, i should have realized that ;)22:06
len-1304What I thought, would it help if we did some testing?22:06
ScottLi'd be up to help with some testing too22:06
len-1304falktx, is it testable against 13.04 alpha? or just 12.04?22:07
falktxlen-1304: I'll prepare packages for 12.04<->13.0422:07
ScottLi'll be back in about ten minutes or so, doing stuff with son22:07
falktxI'm uploading to https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/cadence/22:08
ttoinehello22:10
ttoinehttp://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/01/ubuntu-considers-huge-change-that-would-end-traditional-release-cycle/22:10
zequencettoine: Yeah, I saw that today too. 22:11
falktxI read that22:11
falktxI wish it was true22:11
zequenceProbably means the way we work would change. We do updates to an existing release much more22:11
falktx2 hours for packages to build22:16
ttoinefalktx, would be great, yeah22:17
ttoinebut would it mean less stability ? for server use, as an example22:18
falktxjust don't update server packages then?22:18
falktxserver != desktop22:18
falktxI say update desktop stuff like gimp, but leave apache alone22:19
len-1304I am not sure but I would hope that an LTS still keeps the same versions through it's cycle.22:19
falktxmajor versions maybe, but at least update minor ones22:20
len-1304The rolling release would be like dev for the next LTS, but usable as it gets worked on.22:20
len-1304Sort of like using 13.04 on a daily basis if you are not going LTS22:21
len-1304Gotta go. Might be back in a few hours.22:23
zequenceThey could just make the update choices different. 22:26
falktxyeah, different repos22:27
falktxraring-updates22:27
falktxraring-updates-extra22:27
falktxetc22:27
ScottLi would worry about new features and a rolling release22:37
ScottLdo you avoid all new features, just major ones, or wait until LTS to do them22:38
ScottLis there a side development branch for pre-testing?22:38
ScottLyadda, yadda, yadda22:38
ScottLfor example, what if Unity was developed during a rolling release development22:38
ScottL?22:38
ttoineScottL, it would be like gmail and google apps22:42
ttoinea few mofications from time to time to anoy users a few day22:42
ttoinebut small improvements may be good too22:42
ttoinelook at firefox, in the past, we had only one major release per ubuntu release22:43
ttoinenow, we have the new one every two weeks. quite good for security22:43
ttoineif fixes are available more often, it is good !22:43
ttoineno need anymore to ask for backport in old lts, etc...22:44
ttoinewell, good night !22:54
ScottLi guess that is a good point, but there would still need to probably be some side development before it was pushed though23:13
zequenceI'm thinking 14.04, 14.04.1, etc. But, those who want only security updates would not get any feature changes for the duration of the release23:14
micahgnew firefox every 6 weeks...23:47
micahgfor features + rolling release, you land features when they're ready, only time you're conservative is close to the LTS, at that point, you want to be focusing on polish anyways23:48

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