[00:06] <zequence> I realized it might be worth having a script for setting up a developer environment
[00:07] <zequence> I'm working on a ubuntustudio-devel "package"
[00:07] <zequence> or, I should probably call it ubuntustudio-dev-tools
[00:09] <zequence> Will create a bzr branch for it, once it's usable for something
[00:28] <micahg> !info packaging-dev
[00:44] <micahg> zequence: ^^
[01:00] <zequence> micahg: Thanks. My script will also help check the system for gpg, ssh, variables, and let the user add things that are missing. If I were to make a package out of it, I'd have it depend on existing dev packages. I wasn't aware of this one, actually.
[01:01] <zequence> There are two reasons for the extra help. 1. make new developers aware of what they need. 2. the script can be used just to check if all is in place
[01:04] <micahg> zequence: ok, maybe such a script could live in ubuntu-dev-tools if sufficiently geenric
[01:04] <micahg> *generic
[01:07] <zequence> micahg: Should work. But, now that you mentioned that package, I should probably look through the available tools first :).
[01:09] <zequence> Like "setup-packaging-environment"
[01:10] <micahg> might work for packaging-dev as well
[01:15] <zequence> I think most of what I was considering might. But, if I add bzr stuff, then it might better belong in ubuntu-dev-tools. I could also split things up. And if it gets really specific, than perhaps a ubuntustudio-dev-tools, or just a downloadable script could depend on those
[01:17] <zequence> I think the only really non generic thing I was considering was ensuring there was some kind of keyring in place. I forget exactly where there might be problems for the inexperienced. Need to set up a system from scratch and see. 
[01:18] <zequence> Well, maybe not non-generic. And it would be selectable, as everything else
[07:29] <astraljava> Hey guys, haven't read this myself, yet, but might have some good tips on the graphics side of things: http://bit.ly/V69PI9
[07:30] <astraljava> Title is 'Professional Graphics Creation on Linux'.
[11:23] <zequence> astraljava: Something I've seen before is people recommending Krita
[11:24] <zequence> I'm thinking of ways to enhance information flow directed towards us regarding linux multimedia
[11:24] <zequence> G+ has some great pages for that, which I do subscribe to
[11:24] <zequence> I'm thinking of creating other google based feeds
[11:25] <astraljava> Sounds good. If you can make it public, please do share.
[11:28] <zequence> astraljava: found this https://code.google.com/apis/console/. An explanation on how to create a rss feed on a search http://www.labnol.org/internet/rss-feeds-for-google-searches/19944/
[11:29] <zequence> Ah, need to go. will have to look at that when I return
[11:34] <astraljava> zequence: Cool beans, thanks!
[14:16] <smartboyhw> Hello ScottL 
[14:25] <smartboyhw> scott-work, hello
[14:25]  * smartboyhw found out he said hello to the wrong place:P
[14:28] <scott-work> good morning smartboyhw 
[14:31]  * smartboyhw is happy now he knew how to update packages:P
[14:37] <scott-work> how do you update packages?
[14:38] <smartboyhw> scott-work, actually I found it on developer.ubuntu.com and played with a package
[14:38] <smartboyhw> called rt-tests
[14:38] <smartboyhw> Got sponsored just a few hours ago
[14:39] <scott-work> super cool then
[14:41] <smartboyhw> scott-work, BTW the team structure that you posted in your blog, I just can't understand the right hand side of it
[14:41] <zequence> smartboyhw: How did you update it? Did you request a sync from Debian?
[14:43] <smartboyhw> zequence, no. Look at the bottom part of http://developer.ubuntu.com/packaging/html/udd-merging.html (sid is just outdated for 2 releases)
[14:43] <smartboyhw> Anyway, DON'T TRY:P
[14:44] <smartboyhw> Gee looking at the "lunchtime thoughts" and then probably zequence will have 3 positions as leads (tech, kernel, doc)
[14:44] <zequence> smartboyhw: Please do not update packages in Ubuntu repos just for fun. If you want them updated, do it in Debian. Then request a sync
[14:44] <zequence> smartboyhw: There is someone responsible of that package in Debian probably
[14:45] <zequence> If Debian is behind, find out why, and if you really need a package updated, try to make it happen in Debian
[14:45] <smartboyhw> zequence, I did ping that guy, and he said he will probably have the update in sid some three months after the debian freeze lifted.....
[14:46] <zequence> And Experimental?
[15:01] <scott-work> smartboyhw: sorry, was planning on responding on g+, which i still probably will
[15:02] <scott-work> smartboyhw: i was graphically showing (to myself) how the various teams would be included in each other
[15:02] <smartboyhw> scott-work, oh
[15:03] <scott-work> right now it's a mess and i screwed up by accepting a few invitations which put -devel as a team of other teams, which i don't agree with now
[15:03] <scott-work> e.g. the -nightly team should be a member of -devel IMO, not the other way around
[15:07] <smartboyhw> scott-work, well then do you think that pic is good enough?
[15:08]  * smartboyhw is in crisis mode for clashing QA sessions with Developer Week
[15:08] <smartboyhw> lol
[15:11] <scott-work> smartboyhw: good enough for what? i was just sharing my personal brainstorming
[15:11] <smartboyhw> scott-work, good enough for real world team planning:
[15:11] <smartboyhw> :p
[15:11] <scott-work> my next step is to write a few sentence as the purpose for each team
[15:11] <scott-work> once i do that then i would post a more formalized version to the -devel mailing list
[15:11] <scott-work> asking for opinions and suggestions
[15:15] <scott-work> oh, i should point out that the names that are listed by teams are basically people who are functioning (say they want to function) in those capacities
[15:18] <scott-work> ....and that was literally a fifteen minute exercise to organize my thoughts on what the teams are, what teams _should_ be
[16:03] <zequence> scott-work: I'd really like to talk about switching the desktop background for next release
[16:04] <zequence> The idea of it is nice, but the resolution is not that great
[16:04] <zequence> Becomes more apparent on a bigger screen
[16:05] <zequence> scott-work: I've noticed you'd like more community input. I guess you were looking for art as well. 
[16:05] <zequence> I mean, from looking at the blueprints
[16:06] <zequence> I forget the details. Don't really want to dive too deeply into it. 
[16:06] <zequence> As for art, I only feel strongly about changing the wallpaper
[16:37] <scott-work> zequence: i don't personally have any problem changing the background, do you have any suggestions at this time?
[16:38] <zequence> scott-work: Nope
[16:38] <zequence> scott-work: I guess it would make sense to have some sort of a submission thing, with a deadline
[16:39] <zequence> We could post about it on all the channels we have, and mail lists
[16:56] <scott-work> zequence: there are a few other items that i would like to address before getting into the art stuff from the blueprints, but i not only agree about posting on the channels, i had planned to do this is the next week or so
[16:57] <zequence> scott-work: All right :)
[17:51] <zequence> progress on -controls has really been slow. I should try to whip something up now. Actually wrote some c code not long ago, to check the values for rtprio and memlock
[17:52] <zequence> If I can just get the realtime admin part into shape, with the gui, I feel it's enough to push it.
[21:54] <falktx> ...hmm
[21:55] <falktx> zequence: wasn't there some kind of meeting happening?
[21:55] <len-1304> falktx, Last thursday?
[21:55] <ScottL> falktx, would you like to have a meeting? we can do that :)
[21:55] <ScottL> hiya len-1304 
[21:55] <falktx> kinda, yes
[21:55] <falktx> hey ScottL, hey all
[21:55] <falktx> damn I've been so busy... sorry everyone
[21:56] <len-1304> OK, I have about 15min.
[21:56] <ScottL> falktx, was there something particular you wanted to discuss?
[21:56] <falktx> yes, Cadence :)
[21:56] <falktx> the first tools in here: http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/KXStudio:Applications
[21:56] <len-1304> Must be ready to go?
[21:56] <falktx> I'm shaping them for release, v1.0
[21:57] <len-1304> Great!
[21:57] <falktx> I had issues with my c++ code for my plugin host
[21:57] <falktx> so I've put that into a separate project
[21:57] <falktx> there's nothing stopping the release now, aside from a few unimplemented things
[21:58] <len-1304> So long as they don't show in the menus that should not be a problem
[21:58] <ScottL> cool
[21:58] <len-1304> falktx, Are you releasing them through debian or directto ubuntu?
[21:58] <falktx> len-1304: I want them in debian
[21:58] <len-1304> Good idea.
[21:58] <falktx> is it too late?
[21:59] <ScottL> that's good, you will reach a lot of people that way (including the ubuntu ones)
[21:59] <len-1304> never too late :)   Too late for what?
[21:59]  * falktx prepapes PPA packages for testing, 0 external depencies
[21:59] <falktx> len-1304: for 13.04 repo inclusion
[22:00] <len-1304> I don't think so.
[22:00] <zequence> falktx: Are you pushing it to Debian?
[22:00] <zequence> Ah, you said that
[22:00] <len-1304> There is no alpha date this time.
[22:00] <zequence> There is a feature freeze, as always
[22:01] <falktx> this week I'm finishing my plugin host code, but next week I have time for Cadence
[22:01] <len-1304> When?
[22:01] <falktx> zequence: when ?
[22:01] <falktx> hehe
[22:01] <len-1304> My when was for FF
[22:01] <zequence> falktx: March 7th
[22:01] <falktx> ah, plenty of time!
[22:01] <zequence> falktx: Ah, no
[22:02] <zequence> falktx: There's a Debian import freeze before that
[22:02] <falktx> ScottL: let me prepare some base packages. I would like to discuss Cadence inclusion on UbuntuStudio later on
[22:02] <zequence> falktx: Don't know if we can make an exception
[22:02] <falktx> zequence: oh, when is that?
[22:02] <zequence> February 14th
[22:02] <zequence> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RaringRingtail/ReleaseSchedule
[22:03] <len-1304> could they be released to both debian and ubuntu?
[22:03] <zequence> We might be able to request a sync if the deadline is not met
[22:03] <falktx> len-1304: yes, my target is to get them into debian first, then backport to 13.04
[22:03] <falktx> but I have 0 experience getting a package into debian
[22:04] <ScottL> sorry, back. falktx you should talk with alessio from debian multimedia, he can probably help quite a bit
[22:04] <len-1304> I haven't either.
[22:04] <ScottL> the debian multimedia guys are _very_ passionate about packaging and providing help to get packages in
[22:05] <ScottL> falktx, is cadence "debianized"?
[22:05] <ScottL> meaning, does it have the changelog, control file, etc?
[22:05] <falktx> yes, it's already in KXStudio so it's already debian-ready
[22:06] <falktx> as much as my debian packaging skills go...
[22:06] <ScottL> heh, yeah. duh, i should have realized that ;)
[22:06] <len-1304> What I thought, would it help if we did some testing?
[22:06] <ScottL> i'd be up to help with some testing too
[22:07] <len-1304> falktx, is it testable against 13.04 alpha? or just 12.04?
[22:07] <falktx> len-1304: I'll prepare packages for 12.04<->13.04
[22:07] <ScottL> i'll be back in about ten minutes or so, doing stuff with son
[22:08] <falktx> I'm uploading to https://launchpad.net/~falk-t-j/+archive/cadence/
[22:10] <ttoine> hello
[22:10] <ttoine> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/01/ubuntu-considers-huge-change-that-would-end-traditional-release-cycle/
[22:11] <zequence> ttoine: Yeah, I saw that today too. 
[22:11] <falktx> I read that
[22:11] <falktx> I wish it was true
[22:11] <zequence> Probably means the way we work would change. We do updates to an existing release much more
[22:16] <falktx> 2 hours for packages to build
[22:17] <ttoine> falktx, would be great, yeah
[22:18] <ttoine> but would it mean less stability ? for server use, as an example
[22:18] <falktx> just don't update server packages then?
[22:18] <falktx> server != desktop
[22:19] <falktx> I say update desktop stuff like gimp, but leave apache alone
[22:19] <len-1304> I am not sure but I would hope that an LTS still keeps the same versions through it's cycle.
[22:20] <falktx> major versions maybe, but at least update minor ones
[22:20] <len-1304> The rolling release would be like dev for the next LTS, but usable as it gets worked on.
[22:21] <len-1304> Sort of like using 13.04 on a daily basis if you are not going LTS
[22:23] <len-1304> Gotta go. Might be back in a few hours.
[22:26] <zequence> They could just make the update choices different. 
[22:27] <falktx> yeah, different repos
[22:27] <falktx> raring-updates
[22:27] <falktx> raring-updates-extra
[22:27] <falktx> etc
[22:37] <ScottL> i would worry about new features and a rolling release
[22:38] <ScottL> do you avoid all new features, just major ones, or wait until LTS to do them
[22:38] <ScottL> is there a side development branch for pre-testing?
[22:38] <ScottL> yadda, yadda, yadda
[22:38] <ScottL> for example, what if Unity was developed during a rolling release development
[22:38] <ScottL> ?
[22:42] <ttoine> ScottL, it would be like gmail and google apps
[22:42] <ttoine> a few mofications from time to time to anoy users a few day
[22:42] <ttoine> but small improvements may be good too
[22:43] <ttoine> look at firefox, in the past, we had only one major release per ubuntu release
[22:43] <ttoine> now, we have the new one every two weeks. quite good for security
[22:43] <ttoine> if fixes are available more often, it is good !
[22:44] <ttoine> no need anymore to ask for backport in old lts, etc...
[22:54] <ttoine> well, good night !
[23:13] <ScottL> i guess that is a good point, but there would still need to probably be some side development before it was pushed though
[23:14] <zequence> I'm thinking 14.04, 14.04.1, etc. But, those who want only security updates would not get any feature changes for the duration of the release
[23:47] <micahg> new firefox every 6 weeks...
[23:48] <micahg> for features + rolling release, you land features when they're ready, only time you're conservative is close to the LTS, at that point, you want to be focusing on polish anyways