[00:14] <micahg> knome: I most likely won't be able to make this week's meeting
[00:14] <knome> micahg, oki, np
[00:15] <ochosi> hi there
[00:15] <knome> micahg, that reminds me i should add your extra comment to the minutes
[00:16] <knome> micahg, though it's a bit late now >:)
[00:16] <knome> i don't think anybody said about anything though.
[00:16] <knome> we should get the docs SRU to .3 or .3
[00:16] <knome> ... or .4
[00:17] <micahg> we still have time for .3, especially if it's just our pacakge
[00:17] <micahg> err....2
[00:17] <pleia2> we haven't actually done the updating work yet :)
[00:17] <knome> yes, that
[00:21] <micahg> ok, well, whenever it's ready
[00:21] <knome> that's why i was referring to .3 or .e :)
[00:22] <knome> .... .4
[00:22] <micahg> I'll see if I can get the ISOs to CD size later
[00:22] <knome> !
[00:22] <pleia2> knome: clearly we need to get it in for .3, since your .4 key isn't working
[00:23] <knome> that must be it
[00:23] <micahg> .e should be between .2 and .3...
[00:23] <knome> hah :P
[00:24] <micahg> knome: I'll drop langpacks in line with Ubuntu for .2 unless you object?
[00:24] <knome> langpacks as in?
[00:24] <micahg> I have to see which ones
[00:24] <knome> so you are referring to just "some languages" ?
[00:25] <micahg> I'll diff the manifests between .1 and the dailies as well
[00:25] <micahg> yes
[00:25] <knome> ok, that's fine
[00:27] <micahg> I need to put the alternate amd64 .2 image on a diet, it's 40MB oversized
[00:28] <knome> huh
[00:28] <micahg> umm...50MB http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/precise/daily/current/
[00:30] <knome> ughghh
[00:30] <pleia2> this is going to become increasingly hard and it's eating up micahg's precious time, when do we draw the line here?
[00:31] <micahg> that's precise
[00:31] <pleia2> oh :(
[00:31] <micahg> raring isn't in as bad of shape
[00:31] <micahg> we dropped alternates for quantal
[00:31] <pleia2> bad pangolin
[00:31] <pleia2> right
[00:32] <knome> what's the lightest gui hex editor?
[00:34] <micahg> curses count?
[00:34] <knome> nah
[00:34] <knome> i think ghex does what i want
[14:52] <ochosi> knome: shouldn't there be a meeting in 10 minutes?
[14:53] <maddernick> if UTC == GMT then yes
[14:53]  * maddernick is not sure
[14:54] <ochosi> maddernick: about plymouth: mr_pouit created a branch for raring now for xubuntu-artwork, so if you could create a proper branch of that and push your changes there, that'd be great!
[14:54] <ochosi> then the often-mentioned merge-request
[14:56] <maddernick> create a proper private branch and do a merge? Or can I push directly there?
[14:57] <ochosi> mr_pouit: what do you prefer? ^
[14:58]  * pleia2 yawns
[14:58] <pleia2> yeah, meeting in a couple minutes
[14:58] <ochosi> i'm hoping i can stay, but it might be that there's a meeting in my office and i have to leave, just sayin...
[14:59] <maddernick> im in & out due to cooking :P
[15:00] <GridCube> ;)
[15:00] <GridCube> meeting is now according to timeanddate.com
[15:00] <GridCube> :D
[15:00] <smartboyhw> yep:P
[15:01] <mr_pouit> ochosi: let's do a private branch and request a merge, so the 'real' branch only contains the final "product" :P
[15:01] <ochosi> mr_pouit: yup, sounds like a clean approach. maddernick ^
[15:01] <maddernick> okay
[15:01] <maddernick> will do
[15:01] <ochosi> thanks
[15:02] <maddernick> ochosi: ill make a branch containing the spinner one
[15:02] <pleia2> knome: you about?
[15:02] <pleia2> #startmeeting
[15:02] <meetingology> Meeting started Thu Jan 24 15:02:51 2013 UTC.  The chair is pleia2. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[15:02] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[15:03] <pleia2> #chair pleia2 knome ochosi maddernick
[15:03] <meetingology> Current chairs: knome maddernick ochosi pleia2
[15:03] <ochosi> maddernick: sounds good, ping and i'll test it
[15:03] <pleia2> #topic Items carried on
[15:03] <pleia2> ok, lets see here..
[15:05] <pleia2> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2012-01-09
[15:05] <pleia2> GridCube: any update on your QA item?
[15:06] <GridCube> the qa was already released
[15:06] <GridCube> oh... no sorry
[15:06] <pleia2> GridCube: the tracker updates?
[15:06] <GridCube> i didnt knew i had tha item on me
[15:06] <pleia2> :)
[15:06] <GridCube> i though it was faq
[15:06] <GridCube> no, will see to it
[15:06] <pleia2> oops
[15:06] <pleia2> wrong year!
[15:06] <pleia2> haha
[15:07] <GridCube> XD
[15:07] <smartboyhw> Found the new one
[15:07] <GridCube> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings
[15:07] <pleia2> just clicked on the first january I saw on the archive page ;)
[15:07] <smartboyhw> #link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Meetings/Archive/Minutes/2013-01-10
[15:07] <GridCube> that makes more sense
[15:07] <pleia2> micahg: said he wouldn't be able to make it and knome isn't here yet
[15:07] <pleia2> my action item depends on knome's
[15:07] <pleia2> bluesabre_: you about?
[15:08] <bluesabre_> hey!
[15:08] <pleia2> smartboyhw: thanks, adding this link to the archives now
[15:09] <pleia2> bluesabre_: any update on you action items? (please use #info I always forget)
[15:09] <bluesabre_> #info Testing list sent to knome
[15:10] <bluesabre_> and I haven't done anything with yelp yet
[15:10] <bluesabre_> should I #info that?
[15:10]  * micahg is actually here
[15:10] <pleia2> micahg: oh good, you're next ;)
[15:10] <pleia2> bluesabre_: nah
[15:11] <pleia2> bluesabre_: thanks!
[15:11] <pleia2> micahg: lots of action items for you last time, any updates? :)
[15:11] <micahg> I don't think so, let me check lie list
[15:11] <micahg> s/lie/the/
[15:12] <micahg> nope, the raring ISO grew another 1.5MB
[15:13] <pleia2> ok, thanks
[15:13] <micahg> I should have a little time this weekend, though not sure how much I can get through
[15:14] <pleia2> :)
[15:14] <micahg> I'll probably focus on ISO size if we have people willing to test
[15:14] <micahg> otherwise, I'd rather work on the build failures
[15:14]  * pleia2 nods
[15:14] <micahg> or bugs that need fixing in 12.04.2
[15:14] <micahg> like exo helpers not working with Firefox apparmor enabled
[15:15]  * GridCube opinion is that file size its not that relevant anymore
[15:15] <pleia2> ok, so I think we can poke around to see if there are testers about this weekend (I'd like to volunteer, but my weekend is packed this week)
[15:16] <pleia2> otherwise.. do the otherwise :)
[15:16] <micahg> even if we have testers, it's more if the ISO size makes a difference to the testers
[15:16]  * pleia2 nods
[15:16]  * micahg will brb
[15:17] <pleia2> #topic Team updates
[15:18] <pleia2> we adjusted the agenda a bit so we no longer are going through each team in a subtopic-y order
[15:18] <pleia2> (we'll see how this goes :))
[15:18] <ochosi> :)
[15:18] <pleia2> so anyone who has updates, you can just #info MARKETING: foo
[15:19] <ochosi> #info ARTWORK: i'm working on our icon-theme quite a bit lately, people can check the progress here: https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce
[15:20] <pleia2> \o/
[15:20] <ochosi> #info ARTWORK: people can test/use them in any of our releases (P,Q,R). i'll be soon trying to weed out useless icons and duplicates, so keeping the theme locally up-to-date to check whether icons go missing would be helpful testing for me
[15:21] <pleia2> ochosi: are there instructions for testing them somewhere?
[15:21] <ochosi> #action ochosi to send testing-instructions to knome
[15:21] <meetingology> ACTION: ochosi to send testing-instructions to knome
[15:21] <pleia2> :D
[15:21] <bluesabre_> knome is going to have a nice big blog post to write soon
[15:22] <ochosi> pleia2: well it's really simple, "cd ~/.icons && git clone https://github.com/shimmerproject/elementary-xfce.git"
[15:22] <ochosi> and then "git pull" to update
[15:22] <pleia2> yep, that's simple :)
[15:22] <bluesabre_> and then the icon cache update, right?
[15:22] <ochosi> (possibly "mkdir .icons" as a first command ;))
[15:22] <ochosi> well, either i'll include that command in the instructions or i'll tell ppl to switch icon-themes back and forth
[15:23]  * pleia2 nods
[15:23] <pleia2> #info DOCUMENTATION: We're going to push the documentation SRU for 12.04 to the .3 release (this summer) instead of trying to get it in for .2 (which is coming up quick)
[15:24] <pleia2> #info DOCUMENTATION: We still don't have a docs lead, so if there is anyone interested in pitching in on docs for 13.04, please do :)
[15:24] <pleia2> #info WEBSITE: Opened a few bugs to update screenshots on the site, which I'm planning on completing this week
[15:24] <pleia2> #action pleia2 to complete outstanding screenshot update bugs
[15:24] <meetingology> ACTION: pleia2 to complete outstanding screenshot update bugs
[15:25] <pleia2> any development updates?
[15:26] <pleia2> mr_pouit? :)
[15:26] <bluesabre_> People are testing parole and reporting bugs, and we're fixing them :)
[15:26] <ochosi> :)
[15:27] <bluesabre_> menulibre too :D
[15:27] <mr_pouit> Not much on my side, I only merged xfburn from debian I think
[15:27] <mr_pouit> yeah, bluesabre and ochosi are more active these days ;P
[15:27] <pleia2> :)
[15:27] <olbi> are you planning to add xfce 4.12 if it be released at march?
[15:28] <mr_pouit> we already have the latest thunar and exo in raring
[15:28] <GridCube> what about the weather plugin? 
[15:28] <mr_pouit> Other components haven't been changed much for now, so I can't really tell
[15:28] <micahg> Feature Freeze is Mar 7 IIRC
[15:29] <micahg> I would think 4.12 would be targeted to 13.10
[15:29] <mr_pouit> GridCube: 0.8.2 in raring right now
[15:29] <ochosi> (btw, it's still another week to fosdem, but i might bring up the topic of a gtk3-compilable panel again there)
[15:29] <micahg> please, that would fix our indicator problem at least
[15:30] <GridCube> but 0.8.3 is to be released soon and it had lots of work apparently
[15:30] <mr_pouit> GridCube: if it's released before feature freeze, no problem really :)
[15:31] <GridCube> also, "Please note that 0.8.2 is actually unsupported because it's gradually falling apart, so better don't spend any more time on it.
[15:31] <mr_pouit> (panel plugins an other goodies have their own release schedule)
[15:31] <ochosi> i met hjudt for lunch today, i can motivate him to release it before ff ;)
[15:31] <mr_pouit> *and other
[15:31] <GridCube> http://mail.xfce.org/pipermail/xfce-i18n/2013-January/008324.html
[15:31] <ochosi> but i have to admit that it partly depends on me having enough time to complete the new icon-set for it
[15:33] <pleia2> ok, any other updates?
[15:34] <pleia2> #topic Announcements
[15:35] <pleia2> any announcements? :)
[15:35] <GridCube> not from me
[15:36] <bluesabre_> none from me
[15:36] <ochosi> same here
[15:37] <pleia2> ok
[15:37] <pleia2> #topic Any other business
[15:37] <pleia2> anything else at all?
[15:37] <pleia2> I'm thinking we do another meeting in 2 weeks, same bat time/place
[15:37] <GridCube> o/
[15:37] <bluesabre_> sounds good to me
[15:38] <GridCube> i have an idea
[15:38] <pleia2> GridCube: go for it
[15:38] <frustratedtech> I just want to chime in that I'm loving Xubuntu and I've been spending my sparetime trying to help others.  I just loaded up Xubuntu last week and am diving in full force. :D
[15:38] <bluesabre_> awesome
[15:38] <bluesabre_> :)
[15:38] <GridCube> what if we make a deviantart group for xubuntu users and ask them to submit screenshots and wallpapers and such
[15:39] <bluesabre_> I like this idea
[15:39] <ochosi> frustratedtech: if you wanna help the project in any are feel free to help with whatever you can
[15:39] <ochosi> yeah, dA is not a bad place for that
[15:39] <frustratedtech> GridCube, no offense to the xfce-look guy, but I cannot stand that website.  As a web designer I can't handle it nor send people there.
[15:39] <pleia2> I think the reason we didn't typically is they wouldn't be default on the CD (no space)
[15:39] <pleia2> but if we could get a volunteer to make a separate package for them installable later, and people are ok with non-default
[15:40] <ochosi> pleia2: yeah, but this can simply be a group (as in: collection), no strings attached
[15:40] <pleia2> screenshots are good too though, last cycle we thought about a "this is my Xubuntu" sort of page for the website to show off how people are changing it for their needs
[15:40] <GridCube> yes, but dA manages it better
[15:41] <ochosi> pleia2: yeah, we could maybe take a feed from dA for that
[15:41] <GridCube> we could make friends with the ubuntu-users group to
[15:41] <pleia2> ochosi: don't want an unmoderated feed
[15:41] <pleia2> people use crazy things as desktop backgrounds :x
[15:41] <ochosi> GridCube: do you wanna moderate the xubuntu-group on dA?
[15:41] <GridCube> it can be easily moderated
[15:41] <bluesabre_> lol
[15:41] <GridCube> i can do
[15:41] <GridCube> it
[15:41] <ochosi> pleia2: there you go ^ ;) (so it wouldn't be unmoderated)
[15:41] <pleia2> then maybe cherry-pick ones to put on the site directly?
[15:41] <pleia2> \o/
[15:41] <ochosi> yeah, why not
[15:41] <GridCube> sure
[15:42] <ochosi> GridCube: and remember, no naked ladies! ;)
[15:42] <pleia2> #action GridCube to create and moderate xubuntu-group on deviantart
[15:42] <frustratedtech> Who is in charge of the overall design of the xubuntu website?
[15:42] <meetingology> ACTION: GridCube to create and moderate xubuntu-group on deviantart
[15:42] <GridCube> o.o but... but... its deviantart
[15:42] <GridCube> ok no nakkid ladies
[15:42] <GridCube> :)
[15:42] <pleia2> yeah, have to keep it CoC-friendly if it's to be an official resource
[15:42] <pleia2> (no naked anyones)
[15:43] <pleia2> GridCube: can you also add me as a moderator? (we always have at least two for our social media-y things, in case of buses)
[15:43] <GridCube> will do, you can create a simple toc for the joining members
[15:43] <GridCube> sure pleia2 
[15:43] <pleia2> (I won't actually do anything, just in case of emergency)
[15:43]  * pleia2 checks if she has an account
[15:43] <mr_pouit> (no naked ringtail either)
[15:43] <ochosi> awwwh
[15:44] <pleia2> hehe
[15:44] <pleia2> thanks GridCube!
[15:44] <pleia2> anything else?
[15:44] <GridCube> :) no problem
[15:44]  * micahg disappears for a while
[15:45] <bluesabre_> frustratedtech, the theme is a knome-original
[15:45] <olbi> bye all :) going home :]
[15:45] <pleia2> GridCube: didn't have an account, but now I do as pleia2!
[15:45] <GridCube> :)
[15:45] <frustratedtech> bluesabre, I wouldn't mind getting in touch with them to help it out.
[15:45] <pleia2> frustratedtech: yay, thanks!
[15:46] <pleia2> frustratedtech: re: website, I'm the website lead and knome is our designer and main webdev
[15:46] <pleia2> so knome is in charge of design
[15:46] <frustratedtech> pleia2, nice.  I've being doing design for 15 years so I'd love to help in some way.
[15:47] <ochosi> frustratedtech: if you wanna draw icons that'd be welcome ;)
[15:47] <pleia2> frustratedtech: fungi> i can help you get the user added for that when the time comes to start testing
[15:47] <pleia2>  oops
[15:47] <GridCube> isnt the lightdm theme javascript/xml based?
[15:47] <pleia2> frustratedtech: https://code.launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
[15:48] <pleia2> ^^ that's the code for the website
[15:48] <pleia2> and outstanding bugs under the "bugs" link
[15:48] <pleia2> it's wordpress
[15:49] <mr_pouit> GridCube: css I think (it's gtk3 theming)
[15:49] <frustratedtech> pleia2, ok.  get with me in private so I can help with getting these done.
[15:49] <pleia2> frustratedtech: can you drop me an email? lyz@ubuntu.com (right after this I'm off to work :))
[15:49] <frustratedtech> sure
[15:51] <GridCube> mr_pouit, mmmhm ok
[15:51] <pleia2> ok, anything else before we wrap up?
[15:51] <GridCube> not from me
[15:52] <pleia2> ok, thanks for coming everyone, and it was nice to see some new faces!
[15:52] <bluesabre_> have fun at work pleia2
[15:52] <pleia2> always do :)
[15:53] <GridCube> pleia2, this is the most active ubuntu group on deviantART, http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/
[15:53] <pleia2> GridCube: yeah, I think that's the one doctormo moderates?
[15:54] <pleia2> yeah
[15:54] <pleia2> ok, we'll finish up then
[15:54] <pleia2> #endmeeting
[15:54] <meetingology> Meeting ended Thu Jan 24 15:54:30 2013 UTC.  
[15:54] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-01-24-15.02.moin.txt
[15:54] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/xubuntu-devel/2013/xubuntu-devel.2013-01-24-15.02.html
[15:54] <ochosi> thanks for chairing the meeting, pleia2 
[15:54] <pleia2> sure :)
[15:54] <GridCube> how should i call the group?
[15:55] <GridCube> xubuntu-users?
[15:55] <pleia2> artists is nice
[15:55] <GridCube> xubuntu-artists? ok :)
[15:55] <pleia2> yeah
[15:57] <ochosi> or just xubuntu-art?
[15:58] <bluesabre_> xubuntu-arteests
[15:58] <bluesabre_> :)
[15:58] <ochosi> or zoobuntu-fartists?
[15:58]  * ochosi runs
[16:57] <bluesabre_> wow, I need a new screenshot for my dA
[16:58] <knome> yeah, sorry, was unable to attend today :/
[16:59] <knome> frustratedtech, i suppose the best way to go forward with things would be if you sent a mail to the -devel list with your ideas for the website
[17:00] <knome> frustratedtech, atm, i don't think there's going to be a big or even medium rewrite, but minor changes are definitely possible, if they can improve the site
[17:06] <knome> pleia2, thanks for chairing the meeting
[17:07] <knome> ochosi, well, it's your team... ;)
[17:09] <bluesabre_> knome, with ubuntu talking about possibly moving to rolling release in 2014, how would that affect derivitives like xubuntu?  Or do we cross that bridge if/when it gets here?
[17:10] <knome> i'm pretty certain ubuntu is willing to let flavors decide if they want to join that too or not
[17:10] <knome> (if at all possible)
[17:11] <knome> i think the most important thing to consider is looking how other flavors react to that
[17:19] <frustratedtech> knome, I did sign up for the mailing list.  Didn't know if you'd want to talk one on one since your lead on web design
[17:20] <knome> frustratedtech, the process needs to be transparent anyway, so doesn't matter
[17:23] <frustratedtech> knome, there are a few things I'd recommend, but since this is a WP site, do you have a database export I could play with?  You could empty users if needed
[17:25] <knome> frustratedtech, we don't have database exports, but the theme and plugins code is available from https://launchpad.net/xubuntu-website
[17:27] <frustratedtech> k
[17:27] <knome> though as i said, i think the best way would to be to discuss the changes first
[19:39] <knome> frustratedtech, you around?
[19:39] <frustratedtech> yes
[19:40] <knome> frustratedtech, if you want to, i'd have time to go through any ideas and feedback on the website now :)
[19:40] <knome> pleia2, will you set up the meeting minutes or should i?
[19:40] <pleia2> knome: if you could that would be great
[19:40] <knome> pleia2, i'll do that right away! :)
[19:40] <pleia2> <3
[19:40] <frustratedtech> sounds good
[19:44] <knome> minutes up, page updated
[19:44] <knome> will go and read the log quickly too
[19:47] <knome> frustratedtech, if i wasn't clear enough, just go ahead and shout your ideas out loud and i'll be here to discuss them ;)
[19:48] <frustratedtech> Well, looking at the current site, the design looks good minus a few things.  
[19:48] <frustratedtech> Obvious, need to update the screenshots.
[19:48] <knome> sure
[19:49] <frustratedtech> I believe the homepage should capture more attention though.  
[19:49] <knome> the problem with the details in the design is that i haven't had as much time to work on it than i wanted
[19:49] <knome> in what way?
[19:49] <frustratedtech> I wouldn't mind seeing the screenshots larger and taking a more widescreen aspect ratio
[19:50] <knome> if we make the screenshot larger, we will have more vertical space on the left column
[19:50] <frustratedtech> i believe that would help to emphasize the OS and XFCE more.
[19:50] <knome> and i'm not sure if that's a good idea
[19:50] <knome> for the title text wrapping as well
[19:50] <frustratedtech> you would have less
[19:50] <knome> less horizontal, but more vertical
[19:51] <frustratedtech> You can add 100px width or so to the current screen shot and it would fit nicely if the left column is made a tad smaller.  It would just wrap the text sooner
[19:51] <knome> that's true
[19:51] <knome> it's doable
[19:51] <knome> (and we don't even need a code change for that, hurrah)
[19:52] <knome> can you file a bug against the website for that?
[19:52] <frustratedtech> there is currently 130px height of white space
[19:52] <knome> depends on the screen resolution
[19:52] <knome> or to be more exact, the window resolution
[19:52] <frustratedtech> well, I can update the screenshots and do a widescreen version (like more people would see on their own device)
[19:53] <knome> i have no objections, but i'd talk with pleia2 first about that.
[19:53] <knome> i suppose it would make sense to make all the screenshots on the site widescreen then, and she just took a work item to get them updated
[19:53] <frustratedtech> ah.  what would be the lowest resolution to design against?  1024?
[19:53] <pleia2> I already have a bunch of screenshots made by someone, I need to review them
[19:54] <knome> original resolution doesn't matter too much, but i'd say a 1024 original would be good
[19:54] <knome> that's what we have now, and it scales relatively nicely
[19:54] <Unit193> I have 1280*1024, but other uses 1024*768.
[19:55] <frustratedtech> seems ubuntu.com is at 1024 so i guess it would be best to stick with what they have
[19:55] <knome> pleia2, just fyi, if we're going to change the frontpage size, poke me before you upload the new photos. we don't want to recreate the thumbs, so the change should be done (just) before uploading
[19:55] <pleia2> knome: wasn't planning on changing the frontpage size
[19:55] <knome> pleia2, no, but you were planning to upload new shots
[19:55] <pleia2> yeah
[19:56] <knome> pleia2, so if we're going to make the frontpage size bigger, that needs to be done before upload (ideally)
[19:56] <knome> because i'll just bump up that one image size then
[19:57] <pleia2> I am being pulled in too many directions today :) I'll get the screenshots reviewd this weekend
[19:57] <knome> pleia2, sure, no hurry. just poke me before you upload!
[19:57] <knome> actually, hummm
[19:58] <knome> nvm
[19:58] <knome> meh, we need a css change for the frontpage stuff
[19:58] <frustratedtech> I also think that the "take the feature tour" should be more emphasized 
[19:59] <knome> frustratedtech, how does that look now?
[20:00] <frustratedtech> the columns are left aligned. "In the blog, Further information, Get started".  Those should be centered.  Same with footer info.
[20:00] <knome> i'm not sure i can completely agree
[20:01] <knome> now that i think about it, i think the feature tour should be one of the "icons"
[20:01] <knome> and the larger icons could be moved to the uppermost left column
[20:01] <frustratedtech> seems the h1 text doesn't fit well like that
[20:02] <frustratedtech> the h1 looks good at 170% with that width
[20:03] <frustratedtech> once people get to the page they dont have a sense of direction
[20:03] <frustratedtech> feature tour could use an icon.  I agree
[20:03] <knome> that's true, but i suppose that problem is mostly due to the part under the introduction
[20:05] <frustratedtech> with the h1 at 170%, that would leave perfect amount of room for icon based feature tour
[20:05] <knome> i was thinking to move all the icons there
[20:07] <frustratedtech> The get started icons?
[20:07] <knome> yup.
[20:07] <frustratedtech> i personally like where they are
[20:07] <knome> they are the most clicked links on the site though
[20:07] <frustratedtech> if moved it would look cluttered then you'd have to figure out what to replace the void with
[20:08] <knome> sure. i have no problems coming with ideas for that though ;)
[20:08] <frustratedtech> they are also the biggest and more pronounce links
[20:08] <knome> the sizing could be reconsidered
[20:08] <knome> maybe they could be a bit smaller too
[20:09] <knome> if they are grouped together with the introduction text
[20:10] <frustratedtech> If they were moved and inline it would look ok
[20:10] <frustratedtech> would need to add some more white spacing around it
[20:10] <knome> exactly
[20:10] <frustratedtech> and to replace that area they moved from could be a link to a video
[20:11] <knome> maybe
[20:11] <frustratedtech> bug report asked for twitter feed
[20:11] <knome> yeah, i reported that bug myself
[20:11] <knome> that's up for consideration as well
[20:11] <knome> as i said, there are things we can drop there
[20:12] <knome> brb
[20:12] <frustratedtech> i could create a psd and maybe show some examples of placement
[20:14] <knome> that works, but please export to png/jpg and send to the list for comments :)
[20:14] <knome> i'd definitely want to get the frontpage lifted once again
[20:15] <knome> thanks for the help/input!
[20:15] <knome> i'll go for a while longer, but i'll read all backlog when i come back if you want to throw around more ideas
[20:15] <knome> ->
[20:15] <frustratedtech> No problem.  I'm excited to see what happens here.  I'll probably provide a good selection of ideas in the jpg's
[20:16] <bluesabre_> on the note of the site, the sidebar is a bit barren on the non-home pages
[20:17] <frustratedtech> headers should be consistent.  they are all upper then lower except one "The Ubuntu Family".  So it's not consistent
[20:18] <frustratedtech> the copyright needs to be 2013
[20:18] <frustratedtech> the footer elements could be bigger to help fill the void on the right side
[20:19] <frustratedtech> bluesabre, maybe on those pages put twitter feed?
[20:21] <bluesabre_> yeah, or expand the "In the blog" and not use the combobox
[20:23] <frustratedtech> Yes, it would look better expanded full width
[20:23] <frustratedtech> but, then menu would have to be moved
[21:27] <GridCube> knome, ping
[22:40] <knome> ochosi, can you help me a bit
[22:40] <knome> no need for a true -dev machine here
[22:41] <knome> can you look at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-testing
[22:41] <knome> the work items are a mess
[22:41] <knome> we should list things we need to test in the whiteboard
[22:41] <knome> not the work items
[22:42] <ochosi> in what respect are the workitems a mess?
[22:42] <knome>  [mrpouit] Get the new display dialog to a PPA and tell testers to test it: TODO
[22:42] <knome>  [xubuntu-team] Get gtk-theme-preferences in a PPA and get testers to test it: TODO
[22:42] <knome> both of those have a single work item for "make it available"
[22:42] <knome> and a shared one "organize testing"
[22:43] <ochosi> actually the first part is done for both
[22:43] <ochosi> they are available
[22:46] <knome> ochosi, ...and we really should discuss it here ;)
[22:46] <knome> yes, i know
[22:46] <knome> that's the misleading part
[22:47] <knome> was menulibre in a ppa?
[22:47] <knome> yes
[22:47] <knome> but no raring packages
[22:47] <knome> bluesabre_, ^ 
[22:48] <knome> is the parole version in raring current enough?
[22:48] <knome> looks like it's 0.4.0-0ubuntu1
[22:49] <ochosi> yeah, that's the newest parole-version
[22:49] <knome> so one doesn't need to enable a ppa to test that?
[22:50] <ochosi> yup
[22:51] <ochosi> mr_pouit: is it enough to copy the binaries of xfce4-settings in the 4.12 ppa to R for testing or does it have to be rebuilt/repackaged?
[22:53] <ochosi> knome: i was thinking about re-designing the lightdm-greeter layout a bit today
[22:53] <mr_pouit> it should be enough, I don't think there has been any major transition
[22:53] <ochosi> oha, the man is here! :)
[22:53] <mr_pouit> but imho, testing on any release is fine (precise/quantal)
[22:53] <ochosi> yeah, shouldnt make a big diff
[22:54] <ochosi> btw, should we do a release of the hotplugging support or was there something you and bluesabre_ were talking about that you wanted to figure out?
[22:54] <ochosi> (i didn't read all the backlog, but it was something about when to save settings)
[22:55] <mr_pouit> yeah, I disagreed with the latest commit ;>
[22:55] <knome> what about catdish?
[22:55] <knome> catfish too
[22:55] <knome> was it in a ppa for raring?
[22:55] <knome> or uploaded :P
[22:57] <mr_pouit> there's the same version in quantal and raring
[22:57] <mr_pouit> I'm not aware of any new release :P
[22:57] <knome> so is it the one we want tested?
[22:57] <knome> bluesabre_, ochosi ?
[22:58] <ochosi> i think bluesabre_'s rewrite isn't ready for testing yet (not released)
[22:58] <ochosi> so yeah, that's what we want tested for now i guess
[22:59] <ochosi> mr_pouit: meh, it seems i don't have any rights in the xubuntu-dev ppa, could you copy the settings for R?
[23:01] <mr_pouit> right, you're not in ~xubuntu-dev :P
[23:01] <ochosi> awwwh :)
[23:02] <ochosi> well i guess there's a good reason i'm not! :D
[23:02] <mr_pouit> huhu, I made the copy
[23:03] <ochosi> ty
[23:03] <mr_pouit> (no idea how much time it takes to show up)
[23:05] <ochosi> shouldn't take too long
[23:06] <ochosi> mr_pouit: i'm working on a quick wireframe for lightdm btw
[23:13] <ochosi> mr_pouit: http://imagebin.org/244103
[23:14] <ochosi> knome: ^
[23:15] <bluesabre> catdish, not ready yet (it was a secret)
[23:15] <bluesabre> the new catfish is not ready yet either
[23:15] <knome> boo
[23:15] <knome> ;)
[23:15] <bluesabre> :D
[23:15] <knome> ochosi, right.
[23:15] <knome> ochosi, i suppose that works for me
[23:15] <ochosi> knome: i'm wondering whether we should get rid of the "box" around the login and just throw the widgets on the backdrop
[23:16] <ochosi> knome: one idea is to make the shutdown more prominent, i realized that some of my friends had to search for it when first landing on the login screen
[23:16] <ochosi> (ideally i'd prefer to get rid of the cancel-button, but it's needed in certain cases :( )
[23:17] <knome> ochosi, bluesabre_: log in to http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/
[23:18] <ochosi> bluesabre: shall i copy the packages for menulibre to R or will you do that anyway?
[23:18] <bluesabre> I'll add raring to the ppa
[23:18] <ochosi> ok cool
[23:18] <ochosi> copying the packages should suffice i think
[23:18] <knome> ochosi, bluesabre_: then see: http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/249/builds/27871/testcases
[23:18] <bluesabre> when I finish this and some other updates, I'll try to convince mr_pouit to upload it the the actual ubuntu repos
[23:20] <ochosi> knome: why log in?
[23:20] <knome> ochosi, oh, if you don't need to log in... great :)
[23:20] <bluesabre> dvds will fail, since libdvdcss2 is not in normal repos
[23:20] <ochosi> true
[23:20] <ochosi> that sucks though
[23:20] <knome> bluesabre_, do you think it would make sense to get you rights to edit those testcases too, in this sandbox and iso.qa. too?
[23:20] <bluesabre> and I don't know if the codec-installer will install that either
[23:21] <knome> bluesabre_, or, would you use that ability :P
[23:21] <bluesabre> knome, sure, sounds good to me
[23:21] <ochosi> bluesabre: i think there's a script that's in a package that'll install libdvdcss
[23:21] <knome> ok, let me get that done
[23:21] <bluesabre> I'll try to remember that I have rights
[23:21] <ochosi> knome: stop pinging the wrong bluesabre_ ! ;)
[23:21] <knome> hah!
[23:22] <bluesabre> yay
[23:22] <ochosi> bluesabre: say, do you see a realistic chance that the primary-branch can be fixed for nvidia so that it's mergeable or shall we simply strive for a new release of the settings to get hotplugging out?
[23:22] <knome> bluesabre, done.
[23:22] <knome> bluesabre, now log in
[23:23] <knome> bluesabre, on the left hand side, click "administartion"
[23:23] <knome> bluesabre, then on right top, click "testcases"
[23:23] <bluesabre> ochosi: I'd say for now, probably revert my last commit and get the new release out
[23:23] <knome> bluesabre, then find the correct testcase and from that row, click "edit"
[23:23] <bluesabre> nvidia support can be a bug we attempt to fix later
[23:24] <bluesabre> :)
[23:24] <knome> bluesabre, let's try to get all testing we need in those testcases (new testcases are fine as well)
[23:24] <ochosi> mr_pouit: do you agree with that? ^ (i mean: merge the ochosi/primary branch even though we know it's not working 100% for nvidia-proprietary?)
[23:24] <knome> err, for what app?
[23:25] <ochosi> are you asking me?
[23:25] <knome> yes.
[23:25] <ochosi> display-dialog
[23:25] <knome> mmh, right
[23:25] <ochosi> we wanna push a "primary" option for displays
[23:25] <knome> what does "not working 100%" means ?
[23:25] <knome> -s
[23:26] <bluesabre> doesn't work with the nvidia experimental-304 driver all the way
[23:26] <ochosi> well the RandR primary-property is working fine with intel (or: our code for it), but it seems that with nvidia (which just started to officially support randr) it's not always working bugfree
[23:26] <bluesabre> which is experimental
[23:26] <knome> what's not working?
[23:26] <knome> do you mean it's not working at all times, or is something specific not working at all?
[23:26] <ochosi> on the user-side: checking a checkbox
[23:27] <knome> is it critical for the user?
[23:27] <ochosi> as long as the xfce-desktop or panel don't support this property it won't have any effect anyway
[23:27] <ochosi> no
[23:27] <knome> eg. can somebody break his installation that way
[23:27] <ochosi> it'll just mean the panel will probably remain where it is
[23:27] <ochosi> no
[23:27] <knome> right...
[23:27] <knome> what's the point in introducing the feature if it's not working anyway?
[23:28] <ochosi> it's a devel release, and nick wanted to have support in the dialog first and then implement it in panel and desktop
[23:28] <knome> aha
[23:28] <ochosi> he already agreed to implement it, so it should be fine
[23:28] <knome> but does he need it in xubuntu?
[23:28] <knome> isn't it supported already
[23:28] <knome> (since the code is ready)
[23:28] <ochosi> no, it's not supported
[23:29] <ochosi> by panel and desktop i mean
[23:29] <knome> yes.
[23:29] <knome> then why should an option be included in the dialog?
[23:29] <ochosi> but it will be for xfce4.12
[23:29] <ochosi> and the dialog has xfce4.12 as target
[23:29] <knome> yes, but can we include the option in the dialog when we have xfce 4.12 uploaded?
[23:29] <knome> right.
[23:29] <knome> will the dialog hit Q?
[23:30] <ochosi> no
[23:30] <ochosi> well you can us it
[23:30] <ochosi> use it
[23:30] <ochosi> with the 4.12 ppa
[23:30] <knome> will the feature be supported in R even if 4.12 isn't released?
[23:30] <ochosi> it's really just a checkbox that won't do anything in the worst case
[23:30] <ochosi> so nothing to worry about ;)
[23:30] <knome> yes, but that's not optimal at all
[23:30] <knome> i'd rather just comment the code if it's not supported by other components
[23:30] <knome> then uncomment when it is
[23:30] <knome> *in xubuntu*
[23:31] <ochosi> we can always decide to do that, yeah
[23:31] <knome> not in the general xfce development
[23:31] <knome> or be ready to comment it if the support in panel/desktop doesn't arrive in thime
[23:31] <knome> *time
[23:31] <knome> that works for me as well
[23:31] <knome> as long as we don't have something that doesn't work for anybody :P
[23:31] <knome> so about dvd support
[23:32] <knome> will all dvds fail without libdvdcss2 ?
[23:32] <ochosi> i think many will fail
[23:32] <knome> but by definition not all?
[23:32] <ochosi> all those that are encrypted
[23:32] <knome> eg. not those you mastered yourself
[23:32] <ochosi> i would think those should work
[23:32] <bluesabre> disney's hercules is oddly not encrypted
[23:32] <ochosi> but i'm really no expert on this
[23:32] <bluesabre> :)
[23:33]  * ochosi hates dvds, it's a really bad medium, fails far too often
[23:33] <bluesabre> yeah, only commercial dvds are copy-protected
[23:33] <bluesabre> unless you are silly
[23:33] <knome> and not even all those actually
[23:33] <bluesabre> and most people are not _that_ silly
[23:33] <knome> not all older dvds
[23:33] <knome> http://packages.qa.dev.stgraber.org/qatracker/milestones/249/builds/27871/testcases/1491/results
[23:33] <knome> how does that look?
[23:34] <bluesabre> perfect
[23:34] <knome> please remember that these are instructions for *testers* not end-users :)
[23:34] <ochosi> well, libdvdcss2 is not in the repos, or is it after all?
[23:34] <knome> no.
[23:34] <knome> not installable as a package
[23:34] <knome> but that's not the point
[23:35] <knome> the point is that with this note, people know dvds will not work without it
[23:35] <knome> and send "failed" results
[23:35] <ochosi> this might be the droid you're looking for: http://packages.ubuntu.com/raring/libdvdread4
[23:35] <knome> yes, that package has a script that installs libdvdcss2
[23:35] <ochosi> iirc it pulls libdvdcss2 via a script
[23:36] <knome> i don't think that's automatic though
[23:36] <knome> at least it didn't use to be
[23:36] <ochosi> can't remember now
[23:36] <bluesabre> nope
[23:36] <bluesabre> it installs the script somewhere
[23:36] <knome> in /usr/lib/doc/libdvdread... something
[23:36] <ochosi> would be nice to be able to simplify that
[23:37] <knome> well, it would be possible to have something ala the flashplugin-installer
[23:37] <ochosi> but i guess there's no cross-distro way to do it, otherwise i'd have loved to see a helper in parole
[23:37] <knome> not really.
[23:38] <ochosi> actually some people complained that we implemented the gstreamer-internal codec-installer
[23:38] <knome> hmm?
[23:38] <knome> what's the problem in getting something done?
[23:38] <ochosi> because it's not cross-distro enough or doesn't use packagekit, can't remember now
[23:38] <bluesabre> basically
[23:38] <knome> ha
[23:38] <ochosi> i call that whining on a high level
[23:39] <knome> ;)
[23:42] <ochosi> i updated your blueprint again
[23:42] <ochosi> g2g sleep now
[23:42] <bluesabre> seeya ochosi
[23:42] <ochosi> see y'all
[23:42] <knome> night ochosi 
[23:44] <knome> bluesabre, so, will you help me in getting all the thing to test in the testcasese?
[23:44] <knome> -e
[23:45] <bluesabre> If you don't mind it being done tomorrow, kinda busy atm (but work at work is slow still)
[23:46] <knome> not at all
[23:46] <knome> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/other-r-xubuntu-testing tries to list everything we need to test
[23:48] <pleia2> oy, what are you doing to my inbox
[23:48] <knome> haha
[23:48] <knome> :)
[23:48] <pleia2> :)
[23:48] <knome> clicking around
[23:48] <knome> i'm setting our blueprints to be "approved"
[23:49] <knome> ;)