| solarcloud_3srcn | Terrorists WIN !! | 01:17 |
|---|---|---|
| daftykins | pow pow | 01:27 |
| daftykins | http://i.imgur.com/h6PXrBa.gif | 01:27 |
| daftykins | amusing GIF, safe for all times | 01:27 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | nice.. daftykins | 01:42 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | I've bookmarked it.. | 01:42 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | ' pow pow '.. can't wait to see all of those cat picts today.. Oh wait It's Caturday. Oh dear, | 01:44 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | http://wp.me/phA9d-Sn has been updated tonight .. at last.. a new book to read ! | 01:46 |
| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
| === feisar is now known as Guest64015 | ||
| popey | morning | 09:10 |
| AlanBell | morning | 09:13 |
| brobostigon | good morning everyone, | 09:52 |
| === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte | ||
| alexcockell | Morning all.. | 12:23 |
| brobostigon | afternoon alexcockell | 12:24 |
| popey | hello | 12:24 |
| alexcockell | Oh - got a bit of a giggle here... | 12:24 |
| alexcockell | Who here runs LG smart TVs? | 12:25 |
| alexcockell | Aware there's been a Big Annual Update been roled out? | 12:25 |
| alexcockell | *rolled | 12:25 |
| alexcockell | Historically they rolled out updates model by model... only they've now goen to the Universal Update model.. | 12:29 |
| alexcockell | ... and Smart Tvs have massive jumped in sales volumes... | 12:29 |
| popey | i dont own a smart tv | 12:29 |
| alexcockell | They have 1 or 2 servers hosting the whole of the UK | 12:29 |
| alexcockell | ... and I'd guess about 10 million Smart TVs installed int he UK... | 12:30 |
| alexcockell | They announce an update.. | 12:30 |
| alexcockell | TV prompts you when you start it up... | 12:30 |
| alexcockell | 400Mb shoudl, on most ADSL connections take about 20 mins tops? | 12:31 |
| alexcockell | Many complaints about it taking >6hrs | 12:32 |
| popey | to download or update? | 12:32 |
| alexcockell | Download - as the telly ideally downloads it itsself.. | 12:32 |
| popey | wouldn't get this with Ubuntu T ;) | 12:32 |
| alexcockell | 2 boxes hosting 10m? | 12:32 |
| alexcockell | Yeah - cos we have a CDN... | 12:32 |
| popey | 10 million!? | 12:33 |
| popey | from one company | 12:33 |
| popey | thats 50% of all households | 12:33 |
| alexcockell | Basing it on them having a 5th of the UK telly market.. | 12:33 |
| popey | unlikely | 12:33 |
| alexcockell | Multiple tellies? | 12:33 |
| popey | multiple _smart_ tellies | 12:33 |
| popey | i still call unlikely | 12:34 |
| alexcockell | Yeah - point taken - but STBs as well - or WDTV-type units.. | 12:34 |
| popey | from one mfr? | 12:34 |
| popey | still, fun ☺ | 12:34 |
| alexcockell | Getting on that way though - smart tellies HAVE sold quite heavily over the last couple of years | 12:34 |
| alexcockell | Consider Sony, Samsung, PG, Panny... | 12:34 |
| alexcockell | *LG | 12:34 |
| popey | yeah, but there's a zillion manufacturers | 12:35 |
| popey | all those cheapo chinese ones you get in tesco too | 12:35 |
| alexcockell | Well - 5m maybe.. | 12:35 |
| alexcockell | But as back-of-an-envelope calcs... | 12:35 |
| alexcockell | Still a case that they have piss-poor infrastructure.. | 12:36 |
| alexcockell | I wexpected my router to go mad when attempting the update... net activity lights to flash at a Netflix/iPlayer rate as the update hammered down.. | 12:37 |
| alexcockell | But - no. | 12:37 |
| alexcockell | they were VERY interested to hear the suggestion of getting someone like Akamai to shoulder the load... | 12:37 |
| penguin42 | alexcockell: Doing all at one is very very dangerous; they're going to have one hell of a bad monday morning when everyone complains about a broken updating | 12:37 |
| alexcockell | They already have... | 12:37 |
| alexcockell | Yeah - first time they went to Universal Update model.. | 12:38 |
| alexcockell | Used to be model by model.. | 12:38 |
| alexcockell | Penguin42 - Oh - don't I know! Been in the 2nd line supprt, and now capacity planning game for long enough! | 12:39 |
| alexcockell | So instead of maybe 50thou of this model, 20thou of that... | 12:39 |
| alexcockell | And what happens when they release to the States? | 12:40 |
| alexcockell | Even the workaround model of download-to-PC, load onto USB key and hope... more risk of bricking the telly.. | 12:41 |
| alexcockell | They released last night - first people jumped on it and got the update - everyone else stuck at "0% updating..." status page.... | 12:42 |
| alexcockell | I bounced the telly a couple of times then thought "fuck this" and cancelled.. | 12:43 |
| alexcockell | And on hearing they had 1 or 2 releas servers - instead of 1 or 2 THOUSAND | 12:43 |
| brobostigon | is there a terminal version of something like gkrellm, that can read the temperaure from the rpi? | 12:46 |
| Laney | AIEEEEEEEEEEE | 12:57 |
| penguin42 | brobostigon: I don't know Pi, but most stuff tends to come out of /sys/class/hwmon - e.g. /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input | 13:17 |
| penguin42 | brobostigon: also try sensors-detect | 13:18 |
| brobostigon | /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp that seems to be the command to pull the temperature. | 13:19 |
| brobostigon | penguin42: let me look at that, minute. | 13:19 |
| brobostigon | nope, there is no /sys/class/hwmon | 13:21 |
| penguin42 | hmph | 13:22 |
| brobostigon | would it be possible, to create a byobu addon, to lets say every 5 secs, runs that command, and then display it in byobu? | 13:24 |
| penguin42 | brobostigon: Probably; but probably the right way is to figure out how to teach sensors-detect about it, and then I'd bet there's something already like that for lmsensors | 13:40 |
| brobostigon | penguin42: ok, umm, thank you. | 13:42 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | morning, Afternoon, whatever (!) | 15:38 |
| popey | pip pip | 15:38 |
| penguin42 | solarcloud_3srcn: g'day | 15:38 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | nice minifigs popey ! | 15:39 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | penguin42: Said g'day when I worked at a flight reserve. agency .. everyone just looked at me funny :) | 15:40 |
| penguin42 | solarcloud_3srcn: Well it does solve the timezone problem | 15:40 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | yeah, true. | 15:40 |
| dwatkins | The history of the Minifig: http://eho.st/pjymxy7h | 15:42 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | C'est La Vie . | 15:42 |
| * solarcloud_3srcn downloads pic hard & forwards to chris pirillo quickly.. thanx. | 15:43 | |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Today I am merely a Log floating on the chat channels of life :) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/01%20Glendalough%20130612%20Pano.jpg | 15:46 |
| daftykins | haha | 15:51 |
| daftykins | nice pic that | 15:51 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Twenty karma points If Anyone Can Tell Me This Fella's Name ?? http://goo.gl/msSDy | 16:05 |
| daftykins | pass | 16:06 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Aaaww Poor Freedo .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freedo.svg | 16:06 |
| daftykins | Linux libre 0o | 16:07 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | mm.. nother mailing list I see :D | 16:08 |
| daftykins | he appears to be a good choice for a dental mascot | 16:08 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | yes, he had a brother, but he was like Bert of Bert & Ernie (seen as evils)... | 16:09 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Today wil mark the point that I have not successfully watch TV for over 7 months !! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Trinitron%20now%20under%20the%20sink.JPG | 16:11 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | *..will mark... | 16:11 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | http://t.co/Of6ho1X1 | 16:13 |
| directhex | that sink is vile | 16:15 |
| directhex | clean it | 16:15 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | It's already clean, dude ( cleaned it months ago !!) | 16:15 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Yoke : Anti-Joke Cat @AntiJokeCat Why was six afraid of seven? It wasn't. Numbers are not sentient and thus are incapable of feeling fear. | 16:18 |
| daftykins | i +1 directhex | 16:21 |
| daftykins | also, high voltage CRT beside water source, that's a recipe for... fun? | 16:21 |
| brobostigon | or, sizzzle. | 16:22 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | it died ages ago. | 16:22 |
| gord | when is sizzling not fun? sun bathing, bacon, saussages, fun for everyone | 16:22 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | I mean it is at the tip now ... | 16:22 |
| brobostigon | not the sizzle when you put electronics in water. | 16:23 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | I noticed Ubuntu Tv meeting wasn't on last night :( | 16:23 |
| daftykins | i can't see Ubuntu doing anything good for TV | 16:24 |
| brobostigon | directhex: whats the ice on the paths in town like? | 16:24 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Well, if there's no meeting = there's no collusion or crowdsourcing, so it's no happening either way. | 16:24 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | **it's not happ... | 16:25 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Looking forward to The Last Train to Zona Verde this Spring http://t.co/5BIbOREY | 16:29 |
| gord | http://www.pcworld.com/article/261487/pc_in_a_keyboard_comes_with_ubuntu_linux_preloaded.html interesting | 16:33 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | opening... | 16:34 |
| penguin42 | gord: Makes sense | 16:34 |
| penguin42 | gord: And not that hard I guess, a full size keyboard is quite big, compare it to a netbook | 16:34 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | no HDMI ?? | 16:35 |
| popey | solarcloud_3srcn: i think it did happen | 16:36 |
| * solarcloud_3srcn sees a winblows superkey .. mmmmphf !! | 16:37 | |
| daftykins | 'super' is OS agnostic | 16:38 |
| daftykins | although if you mean it's adorned by the Windows logo, meh | 16:38 |
| popey | ☹ windows key | 16:39 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | must be a sticker for that, somewhere ? | 16:39 |
| popey | note the old Asus EEE PC which shipped with Linux didn't have a "Windows Key" but a key with a "Home" icon on it | 16:40 |
| popey | very good reason for that | 16:40 |
| daftykins | indeed | 16:42 |
| daftykins | no paying Microsoft | 16:42 |
| daftykins | for the 'privilege' | 16:42 |
| popey | other way round | 16:42 |
| daftykins | really? | 16:42 |
| popey | Microsoft place great limitations on what the Windows key can do | 16:42 |
| popey | if you ship a machine running non-windows but with a windows key, microsoft will send the lawyers in | 16:43 |
| popey | specifically if the windows key does something in software | 16:43 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | What would canonical do ? | 16:43 |
| popey | we don't sell hardware, not our problem | 16:44 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | k | 16:44 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | I must say, I thnk the 1.8GHz is underpowered, today , As there is the 2.13 GHz Atom processor that does the exact same job. | 16:46 |
| gord | its a year old article, so yes its using old tech | 16:46 |
| gord | or half a year even | 16:46 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | gord: good try thou ;D | 16:46 |
| gord | a newer atom would put the price up too, i don't think there is much in .3ghz | 16:47 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | & in other news .. TWIL (Jordan !!) http://twil.tv/2013/01/htc-windows-phone-8x-review-from-an-android-users-point-of-view/ (24thJan'13) | 16:49 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Time for porridge .. & sultanas .. | 17:07 |
| directhex | brobostigon, not so bad now, crunches underfoot | 17:19 |
| brobostigon | directhex: any chance of me slipping and breaking anything? | 17:20 |
| directhex | brobostigon, lower than this morning | 17:20 |
| dwatkins | don't fall in the canal, especially with a phone | 17:21 |
| dwatkins | my iPhone is booting, but wifi and bluetooth don't work, and the touchscreen isn't working correctly. | 17:21 |
| brobostigon | directhex: ok, good, i was alittle worried seeing ice everywhere. | 17:21 |
| brobostigon | dwatkins: yes, best avoided. | 17:21 |
| daftykins | dwatkins: booting with iOS, or...? | 17:23 |
| popey | dwatkins: have you done the usual put the phone in a pot of rice/coffee? | 17:27 |
| popey | bit late now, probably should have back when you hauled yourself out of the canal ⍨ | 17:28 |
| daftykins | ooh now i see what he means | 17:28 |
| daftykins | indeed, full disassemble time | 17:28 |
| daftykins | get the anhydrous goodness going | 17:28 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | https://plus.google.com/u/0/s/rice%20dry%20iphone | 17:31 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Anyone heard of Spearmint [not the Rhino !!] ?? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MzY | 17:47 |
| popey | newp | 17:48 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | popey: Your right, It's Prob.ly not relevant. | 17:51 |
| * popey shrugs | 17:55 | |
| brobostigon | boots i reckon, for my walk to the pub, play safe. | 18:01 |
| MartijnVdS | BBC HD - Bletchley Park 's Lost Heroes | 18:05 |
| MartijnVdS | *now* :) | 18:05 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | One for VLC :::: http://www.nasa.gov/mp4/721845main_marsdunes20130124-320-jpl.mp4 | 18:05 |
| === Ruint_ is now known as Ruint | ||
| solarcloud_3srcn | New group on identi.ca :::http://identi.ca/group/libreplanet | 18:42 |
| popey | is there any point using identi.ca when Ev is shutting it down? | 18:44 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | it's not shut down yet .. that's like saying why buy a newspaper if the Idependant 'I' will go outta print. | 18:46 |
| popey | not really | 18:47 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | well, it still gives me great news, so it is. | 18:48 |
| * solarcloud_3srcn lives in the *now*. | 18:48 | |
| solarcloud_3srcn | albeit a noosphere... | 18:48 |
| czajkowski | popey: why is he shutting it down ? | 18:59 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | czajkowski: No-one knows , but the new license is MIT , I thnk. I'll see if anyone's flattr'd it recently, hang-on. | 19:11 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Ok, so the founder has only 119 flattr's and mostly uses fbook .. http://flattr.com/profile/evan/things Also people are not 'claiming their donations with http://flattr.com/thing/425469/statusnet-on-Twitter having 42 unclaimed donations. so it's not that there's no money, It's that the dude don't care. | 19:24 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | What was it that *Mouth* said on the goonies ? All that 'rich stuff' unclaimed ... http://flattr.com/catalog/unclaimed/toplist | 19:27 |
| popey | czajkowski: he said identica was only ever set up as an example of what status.net can do | 19:47 |
| popey | he's moved on to pump.io or whatever his new thing of choice is | 19:48 |
| directhex | identica.ca was never useful | 19:49 |
| ali1234 | suppose i want to install upstream git in /usr/local, how do i remove the packaged version without breaking dependencies? | 19:56 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | directhex: It's so un-useful it's on my browser bar !! It for people who share, not ppl. who just suck on the pipe of the day. Maybe some ppl just wouldn't understand. | 19:56 |
| ali1234 | is there some way to make apt think that the package is installed without having the files in the filesystem? | 19:56 |
| daftykins | sym links not good enough? | 19:57 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | I dont know what they are ? | 19:57 |
| ali1234 | sym links? | 19:57 |
| directhex | ali1234, yes. you want software called "equivs" | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | directhex: just found that on askubuntu actually... | 19:58 |
| directhex | which takes a small input file (there are examples in /usr/share/docs) and produces an empty dummy package to satisfy dependencies | 19:58 |
| ali1234 | http://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/ | 19:58 |
| popey | solarcloud_3srcn: it might be good for getting news, but no good for interacting with real people. | 20:03 |
| ali1234 | neither is twitter | 20:04 |
| popey | meh | 20:10 |
| ali1234 | i'm getting lots of obvious spam accounts on my wordpress | 20:12 |
| ali1234 | but they're not doing anything | 20:12 |
| ali1234 | they all have names that match "wk[a-z]{2}[0-9]{3}[a-z]{3}" | 20:13 |
| ali1234 | and free email addresses from hotmail, gmail, ymail etc | 20:13 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | ali1234: It's not like anyone knows anyone on wordpress anyway ... | 20:22 |
| ali1234 | what | 20:22 |
| daftykins | is kismet not spotting them easily? | 20:23 |
| ali1234 | i don't use it on that site | 20:23 |
| ali1234 | kismet scans comments anyway | 20:23 |
| ali1234 | they haven't posted any | 20:23 |
| daftykins | oh accounts | 20:23 |
| ali1234 | they're just making hundreds of accounts and then not doing anything | 20:24 |
| daftykins | i'm not even sure if that's happening on mine | 20:24 |
| daftykins | oh i think i have just requirements to enter name+email | 20:24 |
| ali1234 | we require a full account in order to comment | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | we had zero spam problems | 20:25 |
| ali1234 | well, none have been reported to me anyway | 20:25 |
| daftykins | hmm wp 3.5.1 | 20:26 |
| ali1234 | hmm i like the whirly new icon on raring | 20:27 |
| ali1234 | unity still unbelievably slow in a VM though | 20:27 |
| daftykins | yeah pretty bad in vmware workstation 8 | 20:28 |
| ali1234 | hmm so when i booted raring dbus-service immediately crashed | 20:28 |
| ali1234 | it's reported on launchpad, claims to be fixed released, in the package version i have installed | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | it's clearly the same bug as it's only 2 days old | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | should i reopen bug or make a new one? | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | dconf-service sorry | 20:29 |
| ali1234 | i will make a new bug, and if it is marked duplicate i'll reopen the original bug | 20:30 |
| ali1234 | does the daily image have a build number or something? | 20:30 |
| penguin42 | bug number? | 20:31 |
| ali1234 | bug 1105102 | 20:31 |
| lubotu3 | bug 1105102 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "dconf-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_builder_add_value()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1105102 | 20:31 |
| popey | i saw mention of a dconf issue yesterday in -desktop | 20:31 |
| ali1234 | "This bug was fixed in the package glib2.0 - 2.35.4-0ubuntu5" | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | nope, i have that version installed after using daily iso | 20:32 |
| daftykins | i keep reading 'raring' as RARing | 20:32 |
| daftykins | :D | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | and it still crashes immediately on first boot | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | daftykins: me too | 20:32 |
| daftykins | glad to hear i'm not alone there | 20:32 |
| ali1234 | heh, changelog "should" fix | 20:33 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Reopen I'd say, either that or if you've already opened a new one then put a comment there pointing to it | 20:33 |
| ali1234 | penguin42: ok, i'll reopen | 20:33 |
| ali1234 | actually i might be misreading apt-cache output, let me check | 20:34 |
| daftykins | are you re-opening 1105102 or 1104883 that's claimed as a dupe too? | 20:35 |
| ali1234 | i dunno yet | 20:35 |
| ali1234 | haven't determined which version is actually installed | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | apt-cache output is horrible and unclear | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | synaptic isn't installed | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | software center won't tell me | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | so i'm kind of stumped | 20:36 |
| ali1234 | ah glib2.0 is a source package anyway | 20:37 |
| ali1234 | actually, i can't reopen the bug | 20:39 |
| ali1234 | well then i'll just make a new one | 20:41 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: dpkg -l to find the current version of something | 20:43 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: (sometimes | cat to force it to give full version) | 20:43 |
| ali1234 | glib2.0 is a source package... so that doesn't work | 20:43 |
| ali1234 | gotta know the binary name | 20:44 |
| penguin42 | dpkg -l libglib2.0-0 | 20:44 |
| ali1234 | yeah | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | it's the new version | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | opened a new bug as it's the only thing i can do | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | but 1106322 | 20:45 |
| ali1234 | bug 1106322 | 20:46 |
| lubotu3 | Error: Launchpad bug 1106322 could not be found | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | and it's private | 20:46 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | that's what she said. | 20:46 |
| ali1234 | bug 1106322 | 20:46 |
| penguin42 | hang on | 20:52 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: OK, so you believe it's 1105102 that should be reopened? | 20:53 |
| ali1234 | i don't know | 20:54 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I've reopened 1105102 and put a link to your new bug | 20:54 |
| ali1234 | since i can't reopen it it's irrelevant what i think :) | 20:54 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Not necessarily, I might believe you! | 20:55 |
| ali1234 | i have absolutely no idea if it's the same bug or not | 20:56 |
| ali1234 | my question was about the correct procedure | 20:56 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Looks like it's the same to me; but I suspect the backtrace might not have enough info to be sure | 20:57 |
| ali1234 | well it's pretty easy t reproduce | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | why does no one ever actually look at why this stuff crashes? | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | i mean there's a patch that says "variant checking" | 20:58 |
| ali1234 | what exactly was the variant that caused the crash? and where did it come from? | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | why didn't it happen on developer machines? | 20:59 |
| ali1234 | just fixing bugs is not enough in my opinion | 20:59 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/glib2.0/raring-proposed/revision/188 is the comemnt on the actual fix | 21:02 |
| ali1234 | tells me absolutely nothing | 21:03 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I don't think there is any testing on the dailies - so it's entirely possible the first time that glib version has been paired with the app that crashes it didn't come together until that daily was built | 21:03 |
| ali1234 | fair enough | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | but that's speculation | 21:04 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: If you look a the debian/patches/git_fix_gvariant_tuple_checking.patch entry there is a long explanation of the mistake that was made in glib | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | and besides, if software is really that brittle, something is wron | 21:04 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Software really is that brittle | 21:04 |
| ali1234 | so what that means is somewhere there is another bug, which is now hidden by fixing this one... | 21:07 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Well glib is in the end the low level library, so it's the one that's supposed to be the careful one; and yes I agree the way I read it is the crash is the result of a compound of two bugs | 21:08 |
| ali1234 | i don't think i've ever seen a bug that wasn't really two or more bugs | 21:09 |
| ali1234 | glib should scream blue murder if an app does something bad | 21:09 |
| ali1234 | like instead of spamming warnings that nobody looks at, force terminate the app | 21:10 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Have you tried running most gnome apps from the command line and seeing how much screaming goes on? | 21:10 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: It's a hard trade off - do you crash an app because of a small error; you don't really want stuff to crash, so in terms of how many times does it screw up for the end user it's difficult to know; but I'd love for the day when .xsesession-errors is empty to be soon | 21:11 |
| ali1234 | if it crashed like that since day one, developers would have no choice but to fix the problems | 21:12 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Yeh so one way is to have a more severe mode that does crash on every warning and then get the devs to run with that turned on | 21:12 |
| ali1234 | well making it option isn't much use... if they were going to do that they could just look at the warnings | 21:13 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: But then turn that off at release so it doesn't break stuff for the user | 21:13 |
| ali1234 | plus, if it's even possible to continue, why is it even a warning? | 21:14 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: One problem though is when a library adds another check, an app that was written against an older lib would then die even if it would have carried on working | 21:14 |
| ali1234 | so: stop futzing with the API, and stop building tightly coupled systems like dconf | 21:15 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Doesn't work in practice | 21:15 |
| ali1234 | did anyone ever try it? | 21:15 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: It's not just api futzing, a dev might notice something else that an app could do wrong and add a check for it | 21:16 |
| ali1234 | all possible ways of using an API should be valid | 21:17 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: An interesting difference between debian and ubuntu is that ubuntu uses Fortify that spots buffer overflows, and a lot of universe segs early on because of that spot | 21:17 |
| ali1234 | good :) | 21:17 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: A lot of them are almost false postives; i.e. things that are technically wrong but could never actually cause something to break | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | that's what i mean | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | that shouldn't be a possible situation, ever | 21:18 |
| ali1234 | this is a fundamental problem in software development as we know it | 21:19 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: I think it's harder with things like Java, but they still seem to find ways to crash with Null pointer checks | 21:20 |
| ali1234 | managed code does help but it doesn't stop people making bad APIs | 21:20 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: It feels like what you're asking for is actually impossible | 21:20 |
| penguin42 | it kind of feels like it's wandering into a halting problem like thing | 21:21 |
| ali1234 | ban loops | 21:21 |
| penguin42 | good idea | 21:21 |
| ali1234 | but yeah, that's why i said it's a fundamental problem | 21:21 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: There are languages where dynamic allocation is banned but then they're frankly useless | 21:22 |
| ali1234 | it's not like i have a solution | 21:22 |
| * penguin42 has worked on some static analysis tools - they're good for some stuff | 21:22 | |
| popey | we use coverity on some projects | 21:24 |
| penguin42 | yeh I've seen some coverity scans - quite neat | 21:25 |
| penguin42 | popey: But ali1234 has a good point; forcing people to watch the warning output of gnome apps would be a good thing! | 21:26 |
| ali1234 | a big problem with those warnings is they are so unspecific | 21:28 |
| ali1234 | could it throw an exception, launch gdb, and show me a backtrace? | 21:29 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: You can nail a debugger on them and find what's going on; compare them to python or java errors where you get a page of splurge and then have to figure out whether you care or not | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | otherwise i have no idea where the problem i | 21:29 |
| penguin42 | yeh I don't think it's hard to attach a debugger to them | 21:29 |
| ali1234 | python errors are excellent. full backtrace every time. what vould be better than that? | 21:30 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Bit of a pain for warnings; again something switchable so you can see it when you're prepared to takethe time to debug it would be good | 21:30 |
| ali1234 | catch it, or the program crashes | 21:31 |
| ali1234 | oh great, i love it when apport says my packages are out of date even though the new ones aren't available on any mirror. | 21:45 |
| popey | which mirror? | 21:51 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | Who cares about real ppl .. It's not who it is but what is being said, surely. 'Real people' .. come from Madrid .. and they're crap in bed anyway. | 21:53 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | popey, soz that was from some time ago .. | 21:54 |
| solarcloud_3srcn | (8.10pm)UTC | 21:54 |
| === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away | ||
| ali1234 | wow ... gnome-panel fails to build from source on raring | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | both the source package and the upstream bug | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | *git | 23:39 |
| ali1234 | bug 1106440 | 23:48 |
| lubotu3 | bug 1106440 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "fails to build from source on raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1106440 | 23:48 |
| penguin42 | ali1234: Is that failing in the build farm as well? | 23:54 |
| ali1234 | i have no idea how t check that | 23:54 |
| ali1234 | but i would love to know | 23:54 |
| ali1234 | successfully built on the 18th | 23:56 |
| penguin42 | erm I can't find it either at the moment, but it's possible one of hte | 23:57 |
| ali1234 | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:3.6.2-0ubuntu3/+build/4071784 | 23:57 |
| penguin42 | the packages it depends on has been updated; the other possibility is that you have something in your environment that is stopping it building - e.g. something that's installed that isn't installed on the builders | 23:58 |
| ali1234 | i don't have much installed... literally what i said in the steps to reproduce... it's a vm | 23:58 |
| ali1234 | so i'm guessing the former | 23:58 |
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