[01:17] <solarcloud_3srcn> Terrorists WIN !!
[01:27] <daftykins> pow pow
[01:27] <daftykins> http://i.imgur.com/h6PXrBa.gif
[01:27] <daftykins> amusing GIF, safe for all times
[01:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> nice.. daftykins
[01:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> I've bookmarked it..
[01:44] <solarcloud_3srcn> ' pow pow '.. can't wait to see all of those cat picts today.. Oh wait It's Caturday. Oh dear,
[01:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> http://wp.me/phA9d-Sn has been updated tonight .. at last.. a new book to read !
[09:10] <popey> morning
[09:13] <AlanBell> morning
[09:52] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[12:23] <alexcockell> Morning all..
[12:24] <brobostigon> afternoon alexcockell
[12:24] <popey> hello
[12:24] <alexcockell> Oh - got a bit of a giggle here...
[12:25] <alexcockell> Who here runs LG smart TVs?
[12:25] <alexcockell> Aware there's been a Big Annual Update been roled out?
[12:25] <alexcockell> *rolled
[12:29] <alexcockell> Historically they rolled out updates model by model... only they've now goen to the Universal Update model..
[12:29] <alexcockell> ... and Smart Tvs have massive jumped in sales volumes...
[12:29] <popey> i dont own a smart tv
[12:29] <alexcockell> They have 1 or 2 servers hosting the whole of the UK
[12:30] <alexcockell> ... and I'd guess about 10 million Smart TVs installed int he UK...
[12:30] <alexcockell> They announce an update..
[12:30] <alexcockell> TV prompts you when you start it up...
[12:31] <alexcockell> 400Mb shoudl, on most ADSL connections take about 20 mins tops?
[12:32] <alexcockell> Many complaints about it taking >6hrs
[12:32] <popey> to download or update?
[12:32] <alexcockell> Download - as the telly ideally downloads it itsself..
[12:32] <popey> wouldn't get this with Ubuntu T ;)
[12:32] <alexcockell> 2 boxes hosting 10m?
[12:32] <alexcockell> Yeah - cos we have a CDN...
[12:33] <popey> 10 million!?
[12:33] <popey> from one company
[12:33] <popey> thats 50% of all households
[12:33] <alexcockell> Basing it on them having a 5th of the UK telly market..
[12:33] <popey> unlikely
[12:33] <alexcockell> Multiple tellies?
[12:33] <popey> multiple _smart_ tellies
[12:34] <popey> i still call unlikely
[12:34] <alexcockell> Yeah - point taken - but STBs as well - or WDTV-type units..
[12:34] <popey> from one mfr?
[12:34] <popey> still, fun ☺
[12:34] <alexcockell> Getting on that way though - smart tellies HAVE sold quite heavily over the last couple of years
[12:34] <alexcockell> Consider Sony, Samsung, PG, Panny...
[12:34] <alexcockell> *LG
[12:35] <popey> yeah, but there's a zillion manufacturers
[12:35] <popey> all those cheapo chinese ones you get in tesco too
[12:35] <alexcockell> Well - 5m maybe..
[12:35] <alexcockell> But as back-of-an-envelope calcs...
[12:36] <alexcockell> Still a case that they have piss-poor infrastructure..
[12:37] <alexcockell> I wexpected my router to go mad when attempting the update... net activity lights to flash at a Netflix/iPlayer rate as the update hammered down..
[12:37] <alexcockell> But - no.
[12:37] <alexcockell> they were VERY interested to hear the suggestion of getting someone like Akamai to shoulder the load...
[12:37] <penguin42> alexcockell: Doing all at one is very very dangerous; they're going to have one hell of a bad monday morning when everyone complains about a broken updating
[12:37] <alexcockell> They already have...
[12:38] <alexcockell> Yeah - first time they went to Universal Update model..
[12:38] <alexcockell> Used to be model by model..
[12:39] <alexcockell> Penguin42 - Oh - don't I know!  Been in the 2nd line supprt, and now capacity planning game for long enough!
[12:39] <alexcockell> So instead of maybe 50thou of this model, 20thou of that...
[12:40] <alexcockell> And what happens when they release to the States?
[12:41] <alexcockell> Even the workaround model of download-to-PC, load onto USB key and hope... more risk of bricking the telly..
[12:42] <alexcockell> They released last night - first people jumped on it and got the update - everyone else stuck at "0% updating..." status page....
[12:43] <alexcockell> I bounced the telly a couple of times then thought "fuck this" and cancelled..
[12:43] <alexcockell> And on hearing they had 1 or 2 releas servers - instead of 1 or 2 THOUSAND
[12:46] <brobostigon> is there a terminal version of something like gkrellm, that can read the temperaure from the rpi?
[12:57] <Laney> AIEEEEEEEEEEE
[13:17] <penguin42> brobostigon: I don't know Pi, but most stuff tends to come out of /sys/class/hwmon - e.g. /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input
[13:18] <penguin42> brobostigon: also try sensors-detect
[13:19] <brobostigon> /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp   that seems to be the command to pull the temperature.
[13:19] <brobostigon> penguin42: let me look at that, minute.
[13:21] <brobostigon> nope, there is no /sys/class/hwmon
[13:22] <penguin42> hmph
[13:24] <brobostigon> would it be possible, to create a byobu addon, to lets say every 5 secs, runs that command, and then display it in byobu?
[13:40] <penguin42> brobostigon: Probably; but probably the right way is to figure out how to teach sensors-detect about it, and then I'd bet there's something already like that for lmsensors
[13:42] <brobostigon> penguin42: ok, umm, thank you.
[15:38] <solarcloud_3srcn> morning, Afternoon, whatever (!)
[15:38] <popey> pip pip
[15:38] <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: g'day
[15:39] <solarcloud_3srcn> nice minifigs popey !
[15:40] <solarcloud_3srcn> penguin42: Said g'day when I worked at a flight reserve. agency .. everyone just looked at me funny :)
[15:40] <penguin42> solarcloud_3srcn: Well it does solve the timezone problem
[15:40] <solarcloud_3srcn> yeah, true.
[15:42] <dwatkins> The history of the Minifig: http://eho.st/pjymxy7h
[15:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> C'est La Vie    .
[15:43]  * solarcloud_3srcn downloads pic hard & forwards to chris pirillo quickly.. thanx.
[15:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> Today I am merely a Log floating on the chat channels of life :) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/01%20Glendalough%20130612%20Pano.jpg
[15:51] <daftykins> haha
[15:51] <daftykins> nice pic that
[16:05] <solarcloud_3srcn> Twenty karma points If Anyone Can Tell Me This Fella's Name ?? http://goo.gl/msSDy
[16:06] <daftykins> pass
[16:06] <solarcloud_3srcn> Aaaww  Poor Freedo .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freedo.svg
[16:07] <daftykins> Linux libre 0o
[16:08] <solarcloud_3srcn> mm.. nother mailing list I see :D
[16:08] <daftykins> he appears to be a good choice for a dental mascot
[16:09] <solarcloud_3srcn> yes, he had a brother, but he was like Bert of Bert & Ernie (seen as evils)...
[16:11] <solarcloud_3srcn> Today wil mark the point that I have not successfully watch TV for over 7 months !! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Trinitron%20now%20under%20the%20sink.JPG
[16:11] <solarcloud_3srcn> *..will mark...
[16:13] <solarcloud_3srcn> http://t.co/Of6ho1X1
[16:15] <directhex> that sink is vile
[16:15] <directhex> clean it
[16:15] <solarcloud_3srcn> It's already clean, dude ( cleaned it months ago !!)
[16:18] <solarcloud_3srcn> Yoke : Anti-Joke Cat             ‏@AntiJokeCat                                                       Why was six afraid of seven? It wasn't. Numbers are not sentient and thus are incapable of feeling fear.
[16:21] <daftykins> i +1 directhex
[16:21] <daftykins> also, high voltage CRT beside water source, that's a recipe for... fun?
[16:22] <brobostigon> or, sizzzle.
[16:22] <solarcloud_3srcn> it died ages ago.
[16:22] <gord> when is sizzling not fun? sun bathing, bacon, saussages, fun for everyone
[16:22] <solarcloud_3srcn> I mean it is at the tip now ...
[16:23] <brobostigon> not the sizzle when you put electronics in water.
[16:23] <solarcloud_3srcn> I noticed Ubuntu Tv meeting wasn't on last night :(
[16:24] <daftykins> i can't see Ubuntu doing anything good for TV
[16:24] <brobostigon> directhex: whats the ice on the paths in town like?
[16:24] <solarcloud_3srcn> Well, if there's no meeting = there's no collusion or crowdsourcing, so it's no happening either way.
[16:25] <solarcloud_3srcn> **it's not happ...
[16:29] <solarcloud_3srcn> Looking forward to The Last Train to Zona Verde this Spring http://t.co/5BIbOREY
[16:33] <gord> http://www.pcworld.com/article/261487/pc_in_a_keyboard_comes_with_ubuntu_linux_preloaded.html interesting
[16:34] <solarcloud_3srcn> opening...
[16:34] <penguin42> gord: Makes sense
[16:34] <penguin42> gord: And not that hard I guess, a full size keyboard is quite big, compare it to a netbook
[16:35] <solarcloud_3srcn> no HDMI ??
[16:36] <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: i think it did happen
[16:37]  * solarcloud_3srcn sees a winblows superkey .. mmmmphf !!
[16:38] <daftykins> 'super' is OS agnostic
[16:38] <daftykins> although if you mean it's adorned by the Windows logo, meh
[16:39] <popey> ☹  windows key
[16:39] <solarcloud_3srcn> must be a sticker for that, somewhere ?
[16:40] <popey> note the old Asus EEE PC which shipped with Linux didn't have a "Windows Key" but a key with a "Home" icon on it
[16:40] <popey> very good reason for that
[16:42] <daftykins> indeed
[16:42] <daftykins> no paying Microsoft
[16:42] <daftykins> for the 'privilege'
[16:42] <popey> other way round
[16:42] <daftykins> really?
[16:42] <popey> Microsoft place great limitations on what the Windows key can do
[16:43] <popey> if you ship a machine running non-windows but with a windows key, microsoft will send the lawyers in
[16:43] <popey> specifically if the windows key does something in software
[16:43] <solarcloud_3srcn> What would canonical do ?
[16:44] <popey> we don't sell hardware, not our problem
[16:44] <solarcloud_3srcn> k
[16:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> I must say, I thnk the 1.8GHz is underpowered, today , As there is the 2.13 GHz Atom processor that does the exact same job.
[16:46] <gord> its a year old article, so yes its using old tech
[16:46] <gord> or half a year even
[16:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> gord: good try thou ;D
[16:47] <gord> a newer atom would put the price up too, i don't think there is much in .3ghz
[16:49] <solarcloud_3srcn> & in other news .. TWIL (Jordan !!) http://twil.tv/2013/01/htc-windows-phone-8x-review-from-an-android-users-point-of-view/ (24thJan'13)
[17:07] <solarcloud_3srcn> Time for porridge .. & sultanas ..
[17:19] <directhex> brobostigon, not so bad now, crunches underfoot
[17:20] <brobostigon> directhex: any chance of me slipping and breaking anything?
[17:20] <directhex> brobostigon, lower than this morning
[17:21] <dwatkins> don't fall in the canal, especially with a phone
[17:21] <dwatkins> my iPhone is booting, but wifi and bluetooth don't work, and the touchscreen isn't working correctly.
[17:21] <brobostigon> directhex: ok, good, i was alittle worried seeing ice everywhere.
[17:21] <brobostigon> dwatkins: yes, best avoided.
[17:23] <daftykins> dwatkins: booting with iOS, or...?
[17:27] <popey> dwatkins: have you done the usual put the phone in a pot of rice/coffee?
[17:28] <popey> bit late now, probably should have back when you hauled yourself out of the canal ⍨
[17:28] <daftykins> ooh now i see what he means
[17:28] <daftykins> indeed, full disassemble time
[17:28] <daftykins> get the anhydrous goodness going
[17:31] <solarcloud_3srcn> https://plus.google.com/u/0/s/rice%20dry%20iphone
[17:47] <solarcloud_3srcn> Anyone heard of Spearmint [not the Rhino !!] ??  http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MzY
[17:48] <popey> newp
[17:51] <solarcloud_3srcn> popey: Your right, It's Prob.ly not relevant.
[17:55]  * popey shrugs
[18:01] <brobostigon> boots i reckon, for my walk to the pub, play safe.
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> BBC HD - Bletchley Park 's Lost Heroes
[18:05] <MartijnVdS> *now* :)
[18:05] <solarcloud_3srcn> One for VLC :::: http://www.nasa.gov/mp4/721845main_marsdunes20130124-320-jpl.mp4
[18:42] <solarcloud_3srcn> New group on identi.ca  :::http://identi.ca/group/libreplanet
[18:44] <popey> is there any point using identi.ca when Ev is shutting it down?
[18:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> it's not shut down yet .. that's like saying why buy a newspaper if the Idependant 'I' will go outta print.
[18:47] <popey> not really
[18:48] <solarcloud_3srcn> well, it still gives me great news, so it is.
[18:48]  * solarcloud_3srcn lives in the *now*.
[18:48] <solarcloud_3srcn> albeit a noosphere...
[18:59] <czajkowski> popey: why is he shutting it down ?
[19:11] <solarcloud_3srcn> czajkowski: No-one knows , but the new license is MIT , I thnk.  I'll see if anyone's flattr'd it recently, hang-on.
[19:24] <solarcloud_3srcn> Ok, so the founder has only 119 flattr's and mostly uses fbook .. http://flattr.com/profile/evan/things Also people are not 'claiming their donations with http://flattr.com/thing/425469/statusnet-on-Twitter having 42 unclaimed donations. so it's not that there's no money, It's that the dude don't care.
[19:27] <solarcloud_3srcn> What was it that *Mouth* said on the goonies ? All that 'rich stuff' unclaimed ... http://flattr.com/catalog/unclaimed/toplist
[19:47] <popey> czajkowski: he said identica was only ever set up as an example of what status.net can do
[19:48] <popey> he's moved on to pump.io or whatever his new thing of choice is
[19:49] <directhex> identica.ca was never useful
[19:56] <ali1234> suppose i want to install upstream git in /usr/local, how do i remove the packaged version without breaking dependencies?
[19:56] <solarcloud_3srcn> directhex: It's so un-useful it's on my browser bar !! It for people who share, not ppl. who just suck on the pipe of the day. Maybe some ppl just wouldn't understand.
[19:56] <ali1234> is there some way to make apt think that the package is installed without having the files in the filesystem?
[19:57] <daftykins> sym links not good enough?
[19:57] <solarcloud_3srcn> I dont know what they are ?
[19:57] <ali1234> sym links?
[19:58] <directhex> ali1234, yes. you want software called "equivs"
[19:58] <ali1234> directhex: just found that on askubuntu actually...
[19:58] <directhex> which takes a small input file (there are examples in /usr/share/docs) and produces an empty dummy package to satisfy dependencies
[19:58] <ali1234> http://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/
[20:03] <popey> solarcloud_3srcn: it might be good for getting news, but no good for interacting with real people.
[20:04] <ali1234> neither is twitter
[20:10] <popey> meh
[20:12] <ali1234> i'm getting lots of obvious spam accounts on my wordpress
[20:12] <ali1234> but they're not doing anything
[20:13] <ali1234> they all have names that match "wk[a-z]{2}[0-9]{3}[a-z]{3}"
[20:13] <ali1234> and free email addresses from hotmail, gmail, ymail etc
[20:22] <solarcloud_3srcn> ali1234: It's not like anyone knows anyone on wordpress anyway ...
[20:22] <ali1234> what
[20:23] <daftykins> is kismet not spotting them easily?
[20:23] <ali1234> i don't use it on that site
[20:23] <ali1234> kismet scans comments anyway
[20:23] <ali1234> they haven't posted any
[20:23] <daftykins> oh accounts
[20:24] <ali1234> they're just making hundreds of accounts and then not doing anything
[20:24] <daftykins> i'm not even sure if that's happening on mine
[20:24] <daftykins> oh i think i have just requirements to enter name+email
[20:25] <ali1234> we require a full account in order to comment
[20:25] <ali1234> we had zero spam problems
[20:25] <ali1234> well, none have been reported to me anyway
[20:26] <daftykins> hmm wp 3.5.1
[20:27] <ali1234> hmm i like the whirly new icon on raring
[20:27] <ali1234> unity still unbelievably slow in a VM though
[20:28] <daftykins> yeah pretty bad in vmware workstation 8
[20:28] <ali1234> hmm so when i booted raring dbus-service immediately crashed
[20:29] <ali1234> it's reported on launchpad, claims to be fixed released, in the package version i have installed
[20:29] <ali1234> it's clearly the same bug as it's only 2 days old
[20:29] <ali1234> should i reopen bug or make a new one?
[20:29] <ali1234> dconf-service sorry
[20:30] <ali1234> i will make a new bug, and if it is marked duplicate i'll reopen the original bug
[20:30] <ali1234> does the daily image have a build number or something?
[20:31] <penguin42> bug number?
[20:31] <ali1234> bug 1105102
[20:31] <popey> i saw mention of a dconf issue yesterday in -desktop
[20:32] <ali1234> "This bug was fixed in the package glib2.0 - 2.35.4-0ubuntu5"
[20:32] <ali1234> nope, i have that version installed after using daily iso
[20:32] <daftykins> i keep reading 'raring' as RARing
[20:32] <daftykins> :D
[20:32] <ali1234> and it still crashes immediately on first boot
[20:32] <ali1234> daftykins: me too
[20:32] <daftykins> glad to hear i'm not alone there
[20:33] <ali1234> heh, changelog "should" fix
[20:33] <penguin42> ali1234: Reopen I'd say, either that or if you've already opened a new one then put a comment there pointing to it
[20:33] <ali1234> penguin42: ok, i'll reopen
[20:34] <ali1234> actually i might be misreading apt-cache output, let me check
[20:35] <daftykins> are you re-opening 1105102 or 1104883 that's claimed as a dupe too?
[20:35] <ali1234> i dunno yet
[20:36] <ali1234> haven't determined which version is actually installed
[20:36] <ali1234> apt-cache output is horrible and unclear
[20:36] <ali1234> synaptic isn't installed
[20:36] <ali1234> software center won't tell me
[20:36] <ali1234> so i'm kind of stumped
[20:37] <ali1234> ah glib2.0 is a source package anyway
[20:39] <ali1234> actually, i can't reopen the bug
[20:41] <ali1234> well then i'll just make a new one
[20:43] <penguin42> ali1234: dpkg -l to find the current version of something
[20:43] <penguin42> ali1234: (sometimes | cat   to force it to give full version)
[20:43] <ali1234> glib2.0 is a source package... so that doesn't work
[20:44] <ali1234> gotta know the binary name
[20:44] <penguin42> dpkg -l libglib2.0-0
[20:45] <ali1234> yeah
[20:45] <ali1234> it's the new version
[20:45] <ali1234> opened a new bug as it's the only thing i can do
[20:45] <ali1234> but 1106322
[20:46] <ali1234> bug 1106322
[20:46] <ali1234> and it's private
[20:46] <solarcloud_3srcn> that's what she said.
[20:46] <ali1234> bug 1106322
[20:52] <penguin42> hang on
[20:53] <penguin42> ali1234: OK, so you believe it's 1105102 that should be reopened?
[20:54] <ali1234> i don't know
[20:54] <penguin42> ali1234: I've reopened 1105102 and put a link to your new bug
[20:54] <ali1234> since i can't reopen it it's irrelevant what i think :)
[20:55] <penguin42> ali1234: Not necessarily, I might believe you!
[20:56] <ali1234> i have absolutely no idea if it's the same bug or not
[20:56] <ali1234> my question was about the correct procedure
[20:57] <penguin42> ali1234: Looks like it's the same to me; but I suspect the backtrace might not have enough info to be sure
[20:58] <ali1234> well it's pretty easy t reproduce
[20:58] <ali1234> why does no one ever actually look at why this stuff crashes?
[20:58] <ali1234> i mean there's a patch that says "variant checking"
[20:59] <ali1234> what exactly was the variant that caused the crash? and where did it come from?
[20:59] <ali1234> why didn't it happen on developer machines?
[20:59] <ali1234> just fixing bugs is not enough in my opinion
[21:02] <penguin42> ali1234: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/glib2.0/raring-proposed/revision/188  is the comemnt on the actual fix
[21:03] <ali1234> tells me absolutely nothing
[21:03] <penguin42> ali1234: I don't think there is any testing on the dailies - so it's entirely possible the first time that glib version has been paired with the app that crashes it didn't come together until that daily was built
[21:04] <ali1234> fair enough
[21:04] <ali1234> but that's speculation
[21:04] <penguin42> ali1234: If you look a the debian/patches/git_fix_gvariant_tuple_checking.patch  entry there is a long explanation of the mistake that was made in glib
[21:04] <ali1234> and besides, if software is really that brittle, something is wron
[21:04] <penguin42> ali1234: Software really is that brittle
[21:07] <ali1234> so what that means is somewhere there is another bug, which is now hidden by fixing this one...
[21:08] <penguin42> ali1234: Well glib is in the end the low level library, so it's the one that's supposed to be the careful one; and  yes I agree the way I read it is the crash is the result of a compound of two bugs
[21:09] <ali1234> i don't think i've ever seen a bug that wasn't really two or more bugs
[21:09] <ali1234> glib should scream blue murder if an app does something bad
[21:10] <ali1234> like instead of spamming warnings that nobody looks at, force terminate the app
[21:10] <penguin42> ali1234: Have you tried running most gnome apps from the command line and seeing how much screaming goes on?
[21:11] <penguin42> ali1234: It's a hard trade off - do you crash an app because of a small error; you don't really want stuff to crash, so in terms of how many times does it screw up for the end user it's difficult to know; but I'd love for the day when .xsesession-errors is empty to be soon
[21:12] <ali1234> if it crashed like that since day one, developers would have no choice but to fix the problems
[21:12] <penguin42> ali1234: Yeh so one way is to have a more severe mode that does crash on every warning and then get the devs to run with that turned on
[21:13] <ali1234> well making it option isn't much use... if they were going to do that they could just look at the warnings
[21:13] <penguin42> ali1234: But then turn that off at release so it doesn't break stuff for the user
[21:14] <ali1234> plus, if it's even possible to continue, why is it even a warning?
[21:14] <penguin42> ali1234: One problem though is when a library adds another check, an app that was written against an older lib would then die even if it would have carried on working
[21:15] <ali1234> so: stop futzing with the API, and stop building tightly coupled systems like dconf
[21:15] <penguin42> ali1234: Doesn't work in practice
[21:15] <ali1234> did anyone ever try it?
[21:16] <penguin42> ali1234: It's not just api futzing, a dev might notice something else that an app could do wrong and add a check for it
[21:17] <ali1234> all possible ways of using an API should be valid
[21:17] <penguin42> ali1234: An interesting difference between debian and ubuntu is that ubuntu uses Fortify that spots buffer overflows, and a lot of universe segs early on because of that spot
[21:17] <ali1234> good :)
[21:18] <penguin42> ali1234: A lot of them are almost false postives; i.e. things that are technically wrong but could never actually cause something to break
[21:18] <ali1234> that's what i mean
[21:18] <ali1234> that shouldn't be a possible situation, ever
[21:19] <ali1234> this is a fundamental problem in software development as we know it
[21:20] <penguin42> ali1234: I think it's harder with things like Java, but they still seem to find ways to crash with Null pointer checks
[21:20] <ali1234> managed code does help but it doesn't stop people making bad APIs
[21:20] <penguin42> ali1234: It feels like what you're asking for is actually impossible
[21:21] <penguin42> it kind of feels like it's wandering into a halting problem like thing
[21:21] <ali1234> ban loops
[21:21] <penguin42> good idea
[21:21] <ali1234> but yeah, that's why i said it's a fundamental problem
[21:22] <penguin42> ali1234: There are languages where dynamic allocation is banned but then they're frankly useless
[21:22] <ali1234> it's not like i have a solution
[21:22]  * penguin42 has worked on some static analysis tools - they're good for some stuff
[21:24] <popey> we use coverity on some projects
[21:25] <penguin42> yeh I've seen some coverity scans - quite neat
[21:26] <penguin42> popey: But ali1234 has a good point; forcing people to watch the warning output of gnome apps would be a good thing!
[21:28] <ali1234> a big problem with those warnings is they are so unspecific
[21:29] <ali1234> could it throw an exception, launch gdb, and show me a backtrace?
[21:29] <penguin42> ali1234: You can nail a debugger on them and find what's going on; compare them to python or java errors where you get a page of splurge and then have to figure out whether you care or not
[21:29] <ali1234> otherwise i have no idea where the problem i
[21:29] <penguin42> yeh I don't think it's hard to attach a debugger to them
[21:30] <ali1234> python errors are excellent. full backtrace every time. what vould be better than that?
[21:30] <penguin42> ali1234: Bit of a pain for warnings; again something switchable so you can see it when you're prepared to takethe time to debug it would be good
[21:31] <ali1234> catch it, or the program crashes
[21:45] <ali1234> oh great, i love it when apport says my packages are out of date even though the new ones aren't available on any mirror.
[21:51] <popey> which mirror?
[21:53] <solarcloud_3srcn> Who cares about real ppl .. It's not who it is but what is being said, surely. 'Real people' .. come from Madrid .. and they're crap in bed anyway.
[21:54] <solarcloud_3srcn> popey, soz that was from some time ago ..
[21:54] <solarcloud_3srcn> (8.10pm)UTC
[23:39] <ali1234> wow ... gnome-panel fails to build from source on raring
[23:39] <ali1234> both the source package and the upstream bug
[23:39] <ali1234> *git
[23:48] <ali1234> bug 1106440
[23:54] <penguin42> ali1234: Is that failing in the build farm as well?
[23:54] <ali1234> i have no idea how t check that
[23:54] <ali1234> but i would love to know
[23:56] <ali1234> successfully built on the 18th
[23:57] <penguin42> erm I can't find it either at the moment, but it's possible one of hte
[23:57] <ali1234> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:3.6.2-0ubuntu3/+build/4071784
[23:58] <penguin42> the packages it depends on has been updated; the other possibility is that you have something in your environment that is stopping it building - e.g. something that's installed that isn't installed on the builders
[23:58] <ali1234> i don't have much installed... literally what i said in the steps to reproduce... it's a vm
[23:58] <ali1234> so i'm guessing the former