[01:17] Terrorists WIN !! [01:27] pow pow [01:27] http://i.imgur.com/h6PXrBa.gif [01:27] amusing GIF, safe for all times [01:42] nice.. daftykins [01:42] I've bookmarked it.. [01:44] ' pow pow '.. can't wait to see all of those cat picts today.. Oh wait It's Caturday. Oh dear, [01:46] http://wp.me/phA9d-Sn has been updated tonight .. at last.. a new book to read ! === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away === feisar is now known as Guest64015 [09:10] morning [09:13] morning [09:52] good morning everyone, === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [12:23] Morning all.. [12:24] afternoon alexcockell [12:24] hello [12:24] Oh - got a bit of a giggle here... [12:25] Who here runs LG smart TVs? [12:25] Aware there's been a Big Annual Update been roled out? [12:25] *rolled [12:29] Historically they rolled out updates model by model... only they've now goen to the Universal Update model.. [12:29] ... and Smart Tvs have massive jumped in sales volumes... [12:29] i dont own a smart tv [12:29] They have 1 or 2 servers hosting the whole of the UK [12:30] ... and I'd guess about 10 million Smart TVs installed int he UK... [12:30] They announce an update.. [12:30] TV prompts you when you start it up... [12:31] 400Mb shoudl, on most ADSL connections take about 20 mins tops? [12:32] Many complaints about it taking >6hrs [12:32] to download or update? [12:32] Download - as the telly ideally downloads it itsself.. [12:32] wouldn't get this with Ubuntu T ;) [12:32] 2 boxes hosting 10m? [12:32] Yeah - cos we have a CDN... [12:33] 10 million!? [12:33] from one company [12:33] thats 50% of all households [12:33] Basing it on them having a 5th of the UK telly market.. [12:33] unlikely [12:33] Multiple tellies? [12:33] multiple _smart_ tellies [12:34] i still call unlikely [12:34] Yeah - point taken - but STBs as well - or WDTV-type units.. [12:34] from one mfr? [12:34] still, fun ☺ [12:34] Getting on that way though - smart tellies HAVE sold quite heavily over the last couple of years [12:34] Consider Sony, Samsung, PG, Panny... [12:34] *LG [12:35] yeah, but there's a zillion manufacturers [12:35] all those cheapo chinese ones you get in tesco too [12:35] Well - 5m maybe.. [12:35] But as back-of-an-envelope calcs... [12:36] Still a case that they have piss-poor infrastructure.. [12:37] I wexpected my router to go mad when attempting the update... net activity lights to flash at a Netflix/iPlayer rate as the update hammered down.. [12:37] But - no. [12:37] they were VERY interested to hear the suggestion of getting someone like Akamai to shoulder the load... [12:37] alexcockell: Doing all at one is very very dangerous; they're going to have one hell of a bad monday morning when everyone complains about a broken updating [12:37] They already have... [12:38] Yeah - first time they went to Universal Update model.. [12:38] Used to be model by model.. [12:39] Penguin42 - Oh - don't I know! Been in the 2nd line supprt, and now capacity planning game for long enough! [12:39] So instead of maybe 50thou of this model, 20thou of that... [12:40] And what happens when they release to the States? [12:41] Even the workaround model of download-to-PC, load onto USB key and hope... more risk of bricking the telly.. [12:42] They released last night - first people jumped on it and got the update - everyone else stuck at "0% updating..." status page.... [12:43] I bounced the telly a couple of times then thought "fuck this" and cancelled.. [12:43] And on hearing they had 1 or 2 releas servers - instead of 1 or 2 THOUSAND [12:46] is there a terminal version of something like gkrellm, that can read the temperaure from the rpi? [12:57] AIEEEEEEEEEEE [13:17] brobostigon: I don't know Pi, but most stuff tends to come out of /sys/class/hwmon - e.g. /sys/class/hwmon/hwmon0/temp1_input [13:18] brobostigon: also try sensors-detect [13:19] /opt/vc/bin/vcgencmd measure_temp that seems to be the command to pull the temperature. [13:19] penguin42: let me look at that, minute. [13:21] nope, there is no /sys/class/hwmon [13:22] hmph [13:24] would it be possible, to create a byobu addon, to lets say every 5 secs, runs that command, and then display it in byobu? [13:40] brobostigon: Probably; but probably the right way is to figure out how to teach sensors-detect about it, and then I'd bet there's something already like that for lmsensors [13:42] penguin42: ok, umm, thank you. [15:38] morning, Afternoon, whatever (!) [15:38] pip pip [15:38] solarcloud_3srcn: g'day [15:39] nice minifigs popey ! [15:40] penguin42: Said g'day when I worked at a flight reserve. agency .. everyone just looked at me funny :) [15:40] solarcloud_3srcn: Well it does solve the timezone problem [15:40] yeah, true. [15:42] The history of the Minifig: http://eho.st/pjymxy7h [15:42] C'est La Vie . [15:43] * solarcloud_3srcn downloads pic hard & forwards to chris pirillo quickly.. thanx. [15:46] Today I am merely a Log floating on the chat channels of life :) https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/01%20Glendalough%20130612%20Pano.jpg [15:51] haha [15:51] nice pic that [16:05] Twenty karma points If Anyone Can Tell Me This Fella's Name ?? http://goo.gl/msSDy [16:06] pass [16:06] Aaaww Poor Freedo .. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Freedo.svg [16:07] Linux libre 0o [16:08] mm.. nother mailing list I see :D [16:08] he appears to be a good choice for a dental mascot [16:09] yes, he had a brother, but he was like Bert of Bert & Ernie (seen as evils)... [16:11] Today wil mark the point that I have not successfully watch TV for over 7 months !! https://dl.dropbox.com/u/55128914/Attachments%20Email%20Xchat/Trinitron%20now%20under%20the%20sink.JPG [16:11] *..will mark... [16:13] http://t.co/Of6ho1X1 [16:15] that sink is vile [16:15] clean it [16:15] It's already clean, dude ( cleaned it months ago !!) [16:18] Yoke : Anti-Joke Cat ‏@AntiJokeCat Why was six afraid of seven? It wasn't. Numbers are not sentient and thus are incapable of feeling fear. [16:21] i +1 directhex [16:21] also, high voltage CRT beside water source, that's a recipe for... fun? [16:22] or, sizzzle. [16:22] it died ages ago. [16:22] when is sizzling not fun? sun bathing, bacon, saussages, fun for everyone [16:22] I mean it is at the tip now ... [16:23] not the sizzle when you put electronics in water. [16:23] I noticed Ubuntu Tv meeting wasn't on last night :( [16:24] i can't see Ubuntu doing anything good for TV [16:24] directhex: whats the ice on the paths in town like? [16:24] Well, if there's no meeting = there's no collusion or crowdsourcing, so it's no happening either way. [16:25] **it's not happ... [16:29] Looking forward to The Last Train to Zona Verde this Spring http://t.co/5BIbOREY [16:33] http://www.pcworld.com/article/261487/pc_in_a_keyboard_comes_with_ubuntu_linux_preloaded.html interesting [16:34] opening... [16:34] gord: Makes sense [16:34] gord: And not that hard I guess, a full size keyboard is quite big, compare it to a netbook [16:35] no HDMI ?? [16:36] solarcloud_3srcn: i think it did happen [16:37] * solarcloud_3srcn sees a winblows superkey .. mmmmphf !! [16:38] 'super' is OS agnostic [16:38] although if you mean it's adorned by the Windows logo, meh [16:39] ☹ windows key [16:39] must be a sticker for that, somewhere ? [16:40] note the old Asus EEE PC which shipped with Linux didn't have a "Windows Key" but a key with a "Home" icon on it [16:40] very good reason for that [16:42] indeed [16:42] no paying Microsoft [16:42] for the 'privilege' [16:42] other way round [16:42] really? [16:42] Microsoft place great limitations on what the Windows key can do [16:43] if you ship a machine running non-windows but with a windows key, microsoft will send the lawyers in [16:43] specifically if the windows key does something in software [16:43] What would canonical do ? [16:44] we don't sell hardware, not our problem [16:44] k [16:46] I must say, I thnk the 1.8GHz is underpowered, today , As there is the 2.13 GHz Atom processor that does the exact same job. [16:46] its a year old article, so yes its using old tech [16:46] or half a year even [16:46] gord: good try thou ;D [16:47] a newer atom would put the price up too, i don't think there is much in .3ghz [16:49] & in other news .. TWIL (Jordan !!) http://twil.tv/2013/01/htc-windows-phone-8x-review-from-an-android-users-point-of-view/ (24thJan'13) [17:07] Time for porridge .. & sultanas .. [17:19] brobostigon, not so bad now, crunches underfoot [17:20] directhex: any chance of me slipping and breaking anything? [17:20] brobostigon, lower than this morning [17:21] don't fall in the canal, especially with a phone [17:21] my iPhone is booting, but wifi and bluetooth don't work, and the touchscreen isn't working correctly. [17:21] directhex: ok, good, i was alittle worried seeing ice everywhere. [17:21] dwatkins: yes, best avoided. [17:23] dwatkins: booting with iOS, or...? [17:27] dwatkins: have you done the usual put the phone in a pot of rice/coffee? [17:28] bit late now, probably should have back when you hauled yourself out of the canal ⍨ [17:28] ooh now i see what he means [17:28] indeed, full disassemble time [17:28] get the anhydrous goodness going [17:31] https://plus.google.com/u/0/s/rice%20dry%20iphone [17:47] Anyone heard of Spearmint [not the Rhino !!] ?? http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTI4MzY [17:48] newp [17:51] popey: Your right, It's Prob.ly not relevant. [17:55] * popey shrugs [18:01] boots i reckon, for my walk to the pub, play safe. [18:05] BBC HD - Bletchley Park 's Lost Heroes [18:05] *now* :) [18:05] One for VLC :::: http://www.nasa.gov/mp4/721845main_marsdunes20130124-320-jpl.mp4 === Ruint_ is now known as Ruint [18:42] New group on identi.ca :::http://identi.ca/group/libreplanet [18:44] is there any point using identi.ca when Ev is shutting it down? [18:46] it's not shut down yet .. that's like saying why buy a newspaper if the Idependant 'I' will go outta print. [18:47] not really [18:48] well, it still gives me great news, so it is. [18:48] * solarcloud_3srcn lives in the *now*. [18:48] albeit a noosphere... [18:59] popey: why is he shutting it down ? [19:11] czajkowski: No-one knows , but the new license is MIT , I thnk. I'll see if anyone's flattr'd it recently, hang-on. [19:24] Ok, so the founder has only 119 flattr's and mostly uses fbook .. http://flattr.com/profile/evan/things Also people are not 'claiming their donations with http://flattr.com/thing/425469/statusnet-on-Twitter having 42 unclaimed donations. so it's not that there's no money, It's that the dude don't care. [19:27] What was it that *Mouth* said on the goonies ? All that 'rich stuff' unclaimed ... http://flattr.com/catalog/unclaimed/toplist [19:47] czajkowski: he said identica was only ever set up as an example of what status.net can do [19:48] he's moved on to pump.io or whatever his new thing of choice is [19:49] identica.ca was never useful [19:56] suppose i want to install upstream git in /usr/local, how do i remove the packaged version without breaking dependencies? [19:56] directhex: It's so un-useful it's on my browser bar !! It for people who share, not ppl. who just suck on the pipe of the day. Maybe some ppl just wouldn't understand. [19:56] is there some way to make apt think that the package is installed without having the files in the filesystem? [19:57] sym links not good enough? [19:57] I dont know what they are ? [19:57] sym links? [19:58] ali1234, yes. you want software called "equivs" [19:58] directhex: just found that on askubuntu actually... [19:58] which takes a small input file (there are examples in /usr/share/docs) and produces an empty dummy package to satisfy dependencies [19:58] http://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/ [20:03] solarcloud_3srcn: it might be good for getting news, but no good for interacting with real people. [20:04] neither is twitter [20:10] meh [20:12] i'm getting lots of obvious spam accounts on my wordpress [20:12] but they're not doing anything [20:13] they all have names that match "wk[a-z]{2}[0-9]{3}[a-z]{3}" [20:13] and free email addresses from hotmail, gmail, ymail etc [20:22] ali1234: It's not like anyone knows anyone on wordpress anyway ... [20:22] what [20:23] is kismet not spotting them easily? [20:23] i don't use it on that site [20:23] kismet scans comments anyway [20:23] they haven't posted any [20:23] oh accounts [20:24] they're just making hundreds of accounts and then not doing anything [20:24] i'm not even sure if that's happening on mine [20:24] oh i think i have just requirements to enter name+email [20:25] we require a full account in order to comment [20:25] we had zero spam problems [20:25] well, none have been reported to me anyway [20:26] hmm wp 3.5.1 [20:27] hmm i like the whirly new icon on raring [20:27] unity still unbelievably slow in a VM though [20:28] yeah pretty bad in vmware workstation 8 [20:28] hmm so when i booted raring dbus-service immediately crashed [20:29] it's reported on launchpad, claims to be fixed released, in the package version i have installed [20:29] it's clearly the same bug as it's only 2 days old [20:29] should i reopen bug or make a new one? [20:29] dconf-service sorry [20:30] i will make a new bug, and if it is marked duplicate i'll reopen the original bug [20:30] does the daily image have a build number or something? [20:31] bug number? [20:31] bug 1105102 [20:31] bug 1105102 in glib2.0 (Ubuntu) "dconf-service crashed with SIGSEGV in g_variant_builder_add_value()" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1105102 [20:31] i saw mention of a dconf issue yesterday in -desktop [20:32] "This bug was fixed in the package glib2.0 - 2.35.4-0ubuntu5" [20:32] nope, i have that version installed after using daily iso [20:32] i keep reading 'raring' as RARing [20:32] :D [20:32] and it still crashes immediately on first boot [20:32] daftykins: me too [20:32] glad to hear i'm not alone there [20:33] heh, changelog "should" fix [20:33] ali1234: Reopen I'd say, either that or if you've already opened a new one then put a comment there pointing to it [20:33] penguin42: ok, i'll reopen [20:34] actually i might be misreading apt-cache output, let me check [20:35] are you re-opening 1105102 or 1104883 that's claimed as a dupe too? [20:35] i dunno yet [20:36] haven't determined which version is actually installed [20:36] apt-cache output is horrible and unclear [20:36] synaptic isn't installed [20:36] software center won't tell me [20:36] so i'm kind of stumped [20:37] ah glib2.0 is a source package anyway [20:39] actually, i can't reopen the bug [20:41] well then i'll just make a new one [20:43] ali1234: dpkg -l to find the current version of something [20:43] ali1234: (sometimes | cat to force it to give full version) [20:43] glib2.0 is a source package... so that doesn't work [20:44] gotta know the binary name [20:44] dpkg -l libglib2.0-0 [20:45] yeah [20:45] it's the new version [20:45] opened a new bug as it's the only thing i can do [20:45] but 1106322 [20:46] bug 1106322 [20:46] Error: Launchpad bug 1106322 could not be found [20:46] and it's private [20:46] that's what she said. [20:46] bug 1106322 [20:52] hang on [20:53] ali1234: OK, so you believe it's 1105102 that should be reopened? [20:54] i don't know [20:54] ali1234: I've reopened 1105102 and put a link to your new bug [20:54] since i can't reopen it it's irrelevant what i think :) [20:55] ali1234: Not necessarily, I might believe you! [20:56] i have absolutely no idea if it's the same bug or not [20:56] my question was about the correct procedure [20:57] ali1234: Looks like it's the same to me; but I suspect the backtrace might not have enough info to be sure [20:58] well it's pretty easy t reproduce [20:58] why does no one ever actually look at why this stuff crashes? [20:58] i mean there's a patch that says "variant checking" [20:59] what exactly was the variant that caused the crash? and where did it come from? [20:59] why didn't it happen on developer machines? [20:59] just fixing bugs is not enough in my opinion [21:02] ali1234: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/raring/glib2.0/raring-proposed/revision/188 is the comemnt on the actual fix [21:03] tells me absolutely nothing [21:03] ali1234: I don't think there is any testing on the dailies - so it's entirely possible the first time that glib version has been paired with the app that crashes it didn't come together until that daily was built [21:04] fair enough [21:04] but that's speculation [21:04] ali1234: If you look a the debian/patches/git_fix_gvariant_tuple_checking.patch entry there is a long explanation of the mistake that was made in glib [21:04] and besides, if software is really that brittle, something is wron [21:04] ali1234: Software really is that brittle [21:07] so what that means is somewhere there is another bug, which is now hidden by fixing this one... [21:08] ali1234: Well glib is in the end the low level library, so it's the one that's supposed to be the careful one; and yes I agree the way I read it is the crash is the result of a compound of two bugs [21:09] i don't think i've ever seen a bug that wasn't really two or more bugs [21:09] glib should scream blue murder if an app does something bad [21:10] like instead of spamming warnings that nobody looks at, force terminate the app [21:10] ali1234: Have you tried running most gnome apps from the command line and seeing how much screaming goes on? [21:11] ali1234: It's a hard trade off - do you crash an app because of a small error; you don't really want stuff to crash, so in terms of how many times does it screw up for the end user it's difficult to know; but I'd love for the day when .xsesession-errors is empty to be soon [21:12] if it crashed like that since day one, developers would have no choice but to fix the problems [21:12] ali1234: Yeh so one way is to have a more severe mode that does crash on every warning and then get the devs to run with that turned on [21:13] well making it option isn't much use... if they were going to do that they could just look at the warnings [21:13] ali1234: But then turn that off at release so it doesn't break stuff for the user [21:14] plus, if it's even possible to continue, why is it even a warning? [21:14] ali1234: One problem though is when a library adds another check, an app that was written against an older lib would then die even if it would have carried on working [21:15] so: stop futzing with the API, and stop building tightly coupled systems like dconf [21:15] ali1234: Doesn't work in practice [21:15] did anyone ever try it? [21:16] ali1234: It's not just api futzing, a dev might notice something else that an app could do wrong and add a check for it [21:17] all possible ways of using an API should be valid [21:17] ali1234: An interesting difference between debian and ubuntu is that ubuntu uses Fortify that spots buffer overflows, and a lot of universe segs early on because of that spot [21:17] good :) [21:18] ali1234: A lot of them are almost false postives; i.e. things that are technically wrong but could never actually cause something to break [21:18] that's what i mean [21:18] that shouldn't be a possible situation, ever [21:19] this is a fundamental problem in software development as we know it [21:20] ali1234: I think it's harder with things like Java, but they still seem to find ways to crash with Null pointer checks [21:20] managed code does help but it doesn't stop people making bad APIs [21:20] ali1234: It feels like what you're asking for is actually impossible [21:21] it kind of feels like it's wandering into a halting problem like thing [21:21] ban loops [21:21] good idea [21:21] but yeah, that's why i said it's a fundamental problem [21:22] ali1234: There are languages where dynamic allocation is banned but then they're frankly useless [21:22] it's not like i have a solution [21:22] * penguin42 has worked on some static analysis tools - they're good for some stuff [21:24] we use coverity on some projects [21:25] yeh I've seen some coverity scans - quite neat [21:26] popey: But ali1234 has a good point; forcing people to watch the warning output of gnome apps would be a good thing! [21:28] a big problem with those warnings is they are so unspecific [21:29] could it throw an exception, launch gdb, and show me a backtrace? [21:29] ali1234: You can nail a debugger on them and find what's going on; compare them to python or java errors where you get a page of splurge and then have to figure out whether you care or not [21:29] otherwise i have no idea where the problem i [21:29] yeh I don't think it's hard to attach a debugger to them [21:30] python errors are excellent. full backtrace every time. what vould be better than that? [21:30] ali1234: Bit of a pain for warnings; again something switchable so you can see it when you're prepared to takethe time to debug it would be good [21:31] catch it, or the program crashes [21:45] oh great, i love it when apport says my packages are out of date even though the new ones aren't available on any mirror. [21:51] which mirror? [21:53] Who cares about real ppl .. It's not who it is but what is being said, surely. 'Real people' .. come from Madrid .. and they're crap in bed anyway. [21:54] popey, soz that was from some time ago .. [21:54] (8.10pm)UTC === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [23:39] wow ... gnome-panel fails to build from source on raring [23:39] both the source package and the upstream bug [23:39] *git [23:48] bug 1106440 [23:48] bug 1106440 in gnome-panel (Ubuntu) "fails to build from source on raring" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1106440 [23:54] ali1234: Is that failing in the build farm as well? [23:54] i have no idea how t check that [23:54] but i would love to know [23:56] successfully built on the 18th [23:57] erm I can't find it either at the moment, but it's possible one of hte [23:57] https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-panel/1:3.6.2-0ubuntu3/+build/4071784 [23:58] the packages it depends on has been updated; the other possibility is that you have something in your environment that is stopping it building - e.g. something that's installed that isn't installed on the builders [23:58] i don't have much installed... literally what i said in the steps to reproduce... it's a vm [23:58] so i'm guessing the former