not_foundnight (or I should say morning)02:58
Squirmtoo early04:43
Kilosmorning weekenders05:07
Kilosinteresting read. I wonder what drives the bad guys. revenge for some imagined affront or warped psyches05:22
inetproKilos: ahh, you read my g+ stream?06:02
inetprogood morning06:02
Kilosya on twitter messages i get in mail06:03
inetprohmm.. ok06:03
* Kilos gets twitter feedback in mail06:03
Kilosand here is sit no fw even06:03
inetproKilos: that is only what they think might be interesting to you06:03
Kiloswell they think what you say at times has some substance06:04
inetproat least06:04
Kilosso you can have a peaceful family weekend with work stuff fixed06:05
* inetpro was just getting happy that he was starting to become a normal citizen again, browsing away on the interwebs06:06
inetproKilos: to be honest, we only left the office at about 21:00 last night06:07
inetprofixing all kinds of things that needed fixing06:07
Kilosouch. but its fixed right?06:07
inetprosad part of it is that it didn't even make a dent in the list of things that still need to be done06:08
inetproin IT sysadmin there's always more to be done06:08
inetproso don't say I didn't warn you06:09
Kiloslol i can never get there man06:09
Kiloswill leave that to the clever peeps06:09
inetproKilos: you are the clever peep06:09
Kiloswith farming maybe06:10
Kiloseven then i sukkel to member sometimes06:10
Kilosthats why i gave you and mage that info the other day while it popped up in head06:11
Kilosremember cypermethrin06:11
* inetpro will have to get that06:11
Kiloscan save a fortune making your own pour on for ticks and flees for years outa one tin of it06:12
superflyKilos: cypermethrin?06:15
Kiloshi superfly its mix they use in pour ons for dogs06:15
Kilosthe active insecticide i think its called06:16
Kilosi hope that one explains it06:17
Kilosalso works for flies06:17
Kilosyou mix about 10ml in a spray with about 5 or 7 litres water with a cup of sugar in and spray all over outside and it attracts flies and as soon as they walk on it they start doing a dance for a bit then spin till they fall over dead06:19
Kilosespecially spray onto dog and animal droppings where they lay eggs06:20
Kilosbut even on windows and places where flies gather06:20
Kilosuh oh06:20
Kilossorry thats another one06:21
Kilosmethinks methomex06:21
Kilosi try find06:21
Kilosmethomex is a good insecticide for gardeners06:40
magespawngood morning06:46
Kiloshi mage06:46
Kilosai magespawn 06:46
magespawndiscussing farming and dips again i see06:47
Kilosi gotta share things when i remember them or they gone for months again06:49
Kiloslike gotta start sshing all over again06:49
magespawnmaybe write them into a text file called Kilos Wisdom06:51
Kilosi will lose that too. even lost my curry recipe06:52
magespawndo you have ubuntu-one?06:54
Kilosand dropbox somewhere06:54
magespawnput the folder Wisdom in one of those then share with someone here06:55
Kilosthats an idea06:56
Kilosbut you were supposed to save the info too dodo06:56
magespawni do most of the time, but this way it is automatically06:56
Kilosbut you been busy i know06:57
Kilosok ill try find what i said06:57
magespawni think i have the curry recipe in my drop box06:58
magespawnmaybe not, but i do have it .... somewhere07:11
Kilosnp now07:11
Kilosi can make it with everything around to look through07:12
magespawnmy trick is to try and limit the places i have to look07:12
Kilosmy poor desktop is fulla stuff. when i place in folders somewhere i can never remember which one or where07:13
Kiloshows the hotel job coming magespawn ?07:16
magespawnlooks like it is sorted out07:22
magespawnstill not sure what caused the initial problem though so bit wierd07:23
magespawnoh and yesterday their ups decided to melt07:25
magespawnboil its batteries etc07:25
Kilosoverloaded or over charging07:25
magespawnover charging i think07:27
magespawnwonderful smell07:27
zerefhi ubuntu-za09:49
zerefgimp expert around?09:49
Kiloshi zeref there is a book to download for gimp09:50
Kiloslemme look for the link for you09:50
Kilosdont you get mails09:50
zerefneed so somebody10:05
Kilosi can only crop and scale in gimp10:10
Kilossaterdays you gonna wait till tonight10:10
Kiloszeref, can you get that book free?10:19
Kilosand how big is the download10:20
magespawnhey zeref you around14:33
magespawnafternoon Kilos14:33
Kilosyip i be here14:33
Kiloshi magespawn 14:33
magespawndid zeref say what the problem was?14:34
Kiloshave a grandpa for me14:34
Kiloszeref, ping14:34
Kilosdo you know gimp well magespawn ?14:38
magespawnrelatively 14:38
Kiloshell most likely be back later14:39
magespawnnot serious14:41
magespawnwould have tried to help before but had to go sort a network printer14:41
Kilossame place?14:47
magespawnbut this was a simple fix15:11
Kiloshi Mezenir 15:12
Kilosdidnt know there are simple fixes with pc's15:12
=== Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za
Kiloslo Trixar_za 15:18
Trixar_zalo Kilos15:19
Trixar_zaOh right15:27
Trixar_zaHappy Birthday nuvolari15:27
Kilosveels geluk nuvolari :-)15:28
magespawnKilos only sometimes15:40
Kiloslol youre lucky day15:41
Kilosmagespawn, what doing15:53
Kilosyou on fone?15:53
magespawnno i am at the shop busy doing studying and admin15:57
Kiloscan you tell me about this link15:57
Kiloswhere do you click to get the free ebook15:57
Kilos0ver 600 pages of gimp15:58
magespawnthe book is not free only 40% off15:59
Kilosit says free ebook15:59
KilosPrint books come with free ebook editions (DRM-free, of course).15:59
Kiloswhatever that means15:59
magespawnyeah but you have to buy the print book first16:00
Kilosoh ok ty16:00
Kilosthats sad16:00
magespawncost $49.95 with 40% percent off and a free ebook16:01
magespawnor the ebook only for $39.9516:01
Kilosthats big bucks for a book hey16:01
magespawnbut since it is in dollars i don't suppose they include delivery here16:02
magespawnabout R450.00 so about the going rate for a computer book here16:02
magespawnthe two sections of books that always seem to be expensive are IT and business16:03
not_foundalo SA16:05
Kiloshi neelsie16:06
magespawnhey not_found16:06
not_foundalo uncle Kilos , magespawn 16:06
Kilosmagespawn, we need to find a rich guy to buy the book and share the ebook16:07
Kiloswith us16:07
magespawnindeed, sharing the ebook maybe against the copyright though16:07
Trixar_zaI can think of one place where you can get it, but it won't exactly be legal :/16:08
Kiloscan i get caught16:08
Trixar_zaNot unless you sell it16:08
not_foundif it is worth it then you won't mind paying...16:09
Kilosi want it for me to learn gimp not to make money out of it16:09
Kilosthe pro would say man gimp16:09
Trixar_zaWell, I tend to get most books from Undernet16:10
not_foundthere is enough free resources on GIMP on the net16:10
Trixar_zaThere is one guy (ps is his nick) that runs a mIRC file server16:10
Trixar_zaHe has most manuals on it16:10
Trixar_zaMight not be the newest manual though16:10
Kilostalk nicely too him16:11
Trixar_zaI found that book pretty nice16:14
Kilosty Trixar_za 16:14
Kilosoh my i downloaded that last year i think16:15
not_foundKilos: http://www.gimp.org/docs/ lots of resources (if you haven't had a look yet)16:15
Kilosbut maybe its gone with all the new installs16:15
Kilosty not_found 16:15
Trixar_zadon't have that book16:19
Trixar_zabut they do have Beginning GIMP: From Novice to Professional, 2nd Edition16:20
Trixar_zaas a pdf file16:21
Kiloscan manage that16:22
Kilosits near the end of my 2 months 2+1 8ta bundle16:23
Kilosso not wasting till the 1st16:23
Trixar_zaYou'll have to connect to Undernet and join #bookz though16:23
Trixar_zaAnd type the following in the channel: !Zilnof Peck - Beginning GIMP - From Novice to Pro 2e (Apress, 2009).pdf16:23
Kiloshere on irc?16:24
Trixar_zaYeah, they will send you the book over DCC16:24
Trixar_zaIn XChat it just dumps the files in your home directory16:24
magespawnlater all, home time or wife will shoot me16:25
Kilosty. i go try find undernet16:25
Kilostoods magespawn 16:26
Kilostell her please dont16:26
Trixar_zaShould be in your /server database :P16:26
Kilosty Trixar_za 16:26
Trixar_za/server Undernet - although it will try eu.undernet first16:26
Trixar_zaus.undernet servers work better16:26
Trixar_zaIt's kind of a pain to get connected16:26
Trixar_zaProbably should have warned him about not typing /list16:27
Kiloseeek chucked me off freenode16:28
Trixar_zaOnly because you type /server here16:28
Trixar_zaMake a new tab first :P16:29
Kilosis this the one?16:30
Kilos us.undernet.org16:30
Trixar_zanot all the servers connect16:31
Kilosi learned something new again yay16:31
Trixar_zatry for mesa.az.us.undernet.org16:31
not_foundah undernet... like Hilbrow... only scarier... 16:31
Trixar_zaIt'll ask you to quote something though16:31
Kilosdidnt know about the new tab thing in xchat16:31
Trixar_zajust copy and paste that. Mine was /QUOTE PASS 1076316:32
Trixar_zaJust like Firefox if I remember correctly16:32
Kilosslow down16:33
Kilosits there no says found my ip16:33
Kilosnow gotta /j hey16:33
Kilos /j who16:35
Kilosoh ya16:35
Kilosyou got head spinning16:35
Trixar_zalol, there you are16:35
Kiloswhew so many peeps there16:36
Trixar_zaWell, it is one of the oldest IRC networks around :P16:36
Trixar_zaNow just type !Zilnof Peck - Beginning GIMP - From Novice to Pro 2e (Apress, 2009).pdf16:36
Trixar_zaand he'll add you to his send queue16:36
Trixar_zaDepending on your place, it can take between 1 and 5 minutes before he starts sending16:37
not_founduncle Kilos now going really old school for his warez16:38
Trixar_zaTrue that :P16:38
Kilosi cant keep up there16:38
Trixar_zaNobody can16:39
Trixar_zaIt's not really a chat channel16:39
Trixar_zaActually, it's not at all.  They frown on chatting in there16:39
Kilosoh does a bot do all the work?16:39
Kilosone person could never cope16:39
Trixar_zaXDCC scripts mostly16:40
Kiloshow do you see when you are answered or its started sending16:40
Trixar_zaThat's why you're getting CTCP requests the whole time too16:40
Trixar_zaThey send you a NOTICE16:40
Kilosthere in the channel16:40
Kilosill miss it16:41
Trixar_zaHelps if you have a window open16:41
Trixar_zaAnd you'll get asked if you want to download the file when they send it16:41
Trixar_zawith a xchat dialog16:41
Kilosxchat will bloep me hey16:42
Kilosthey will surely use my nick16:42
Trixar_zaThat's where me and Squirm get all our books16:42
Trixar_zaWhich we then convert into ebooks16:42
KilosSquirm, and I16:42
Trixar_zableh, damn enter key16:42
Kilosah that will be next16:42
Kilosi have some others i cant copy paste from the pdf thing16:43
Trixar_zaI meant to say, then we convert them into ebooks we can use on a ebook reader or our cellphones16:43
Trixar_zaExample: http://brenton.nom.za/books/16:45
Kilosif its illegal the fly gonna fight me16:46
Trixar_zaWell, it's only illegal if your mass distribute it against the authors will or sell it16:46
not_foundhmmm... depends on the licesnse16:47
Trixar_zaFair use protects copies your use for yourself16:47
Kilosah thats all i want16:47
not_foundagain remember that free as in freedom of speech != free as in beer16:47
Trixar_zaMind you, you need to actually own the original for fair use to apply, but yeah16:48
not_founddepending on the author they may expect monitory returns on using there work...16:48
Trixar_zaWell, as I see it, they're making money off FREE Software16:48
not_foundso uncle Kilos ... just buy the book then you can have a free copy of it ;)16:48
not_foundTrixar_za: again... don't mistake the two freedoms...16:49
not_foundgimp decided to make it free as in beer...16:49
not_foundmy work on how to use it is not the software you are using16:49
Kiloslol not_found im trying to save for faster hardware for my pc16:49
Trixar_zaStill somewhat a derivative of free software and documentation16:50
* not_found has not the will16:50
Trixar_zaI get what your saying, but the research was free, the reference documentation was free and the software was free. All probably protected by some CC or GPL license. Yet they charge for the finished book based on derivative works.16:52
Trixar_zaThen again, one of the freedoms of free software is the right to sell it16:53
* not_found leaves Trixar_za to argue with himself.. he seems to be doing a good job for both sides16:54
Trixar_zaI'm an open source and free software supporter16:58
Trixar_zaWe have to be confused, otherwise things don't make sense16:58
not_foundyet you take bread from the table of others that create needed infrastructure for the thing you support... hmmm16:59
Kilosis it that raw.php stuff in home Trixar_za ?16:59
Trixar_zaTell that to Metallica or Lady Gaga16:59
Trixar_zaNo, it will be named the same as the file you requested17:00
Vince-0peeps, my interjection: open =! free17:00
Kilosoh it opened another window here to accept17:00
not_foundVince-0: +117:00
* not_found isn't sure why lady gaga would write a book about gimp then again I don't know her that well17:01
Kilosaw failed17:01
Trixar_zaPoint is, no matter how undesirable or what action they take, they'll always have fans defending them to death17:01
not_foundso your a fan and even if wrong you will defend your point?17:02
Vince-0for open to thrive in business it can't be free, otherwise open will just be a hobby17:02
Trixar_zaMetallica for example sued it's fans over mp3 downloads - even IF they owned the album and were using them in a fair manner17:03
Trixar_zayet we still have idiots in this country hyped up to go watch those idiots17:03
Vince-0art licensing is another story17:03
Vince-0and mostly a matter of opinion17:04
Vince-0Machinehead's front man vowes to never buy another physical album, also a recent interview with Maynard from Tool etc - he has the opposite view17:05
not_foundTrixar_za: I am still not getting how you are tying this to the original point about downloading a book for free without paying... Do you own the book and feel agreived because you are not allowed a digital copy... no...17:05
Kilosnot_found, maybe you can get chemical engineering stuff there17:05
Trixar_zaYou could probably also get it from DukeRaoul: !dukeraoul Beginning GIMP - From Novice to Pro 2e (Apress, 2009) - Peck.pdf17:05
Kilosplay nice guys17:06
Vince-0ya those are mostly pirate books are they not (in that channel) ?17:06
Trixar_zaNo, it's the actual file. Somebody paid for it and downloaded a digital copy.17:06
not_foundVince-0: obviously17:06
not_foundTrixar_za: someone else17:06
not_foundnot you17:06
not_foundor uncle Kilos 17:07
Kilosnot me17:07
Vince-0ya I buy books from Packt publishing with my darned name and address printed in it17:07
* Kilos innocent17:07
not_foundKilos: for now ;)17:07
Kilosno if its illegal then i gotta stay away17:07
superflythat's interesting, never knew I was a duke...17:07
Kilosthe fly will kick ban me17:07
* Trixar_za rolls eyes17:08
* not_found lurks and waits for dinner17:08
Kilossuperfly, ?17:09
Trixar_zaIt's questionable. Depending on the country and it's laws, it may be consider illegal or not.17:09
Trixar_zaI'm pretty sure about American law, but not our own regarding it17:09
Vince-0indeed, ZA will have little motivation to enforce that law17:09
Trixar_zaIt has little motivation to enforce parking fines between provinces, so copyright violations should take a similar backseat17:10
not_foundand that makes it ok17:11
Vince-0no, no it doesn't 17:11
Vince-0the most I've seen or heard of is about ISPs sending notices about movie pirating17:11
Trixar_zaWell, let me put it like this. I'm unemployed and I have very little money to throw around, much less online. So you're telling me, I have to pay for books in US dollars to supplement my skills rather than downloading a good book that I won't sell or even share with others.17:12
KilosTrixar_za, it failed so maybe im not meant to get it17:13
Kilosand no data to try again17:13
Kilosgroggin the gimp is free i think17:13
Kiloshad it before17:13
Vince-0Trixar_za, just don't tell anyone - its a moral dilemma 17:14
Kilosthat thing17:14
not_foundTrixar_za: you are more than welcome to keep telling yourself what you need to hear... I will sit back and not bother you anymore... good night17:14
Trixar_zaSo I'm morally inferior because I want to better myself while I'm in the so-called gutter. Well thank you. 17:15
Vince-0if you like17:15
Kilosno guys. dont sling mu17:15
Kiloswe all friends here17:15
Vince-0I'm saying , be aware. There is also another aspect to promoting it17:15
Trixar_zaWe're more a bunch of guys (and the occasional girl) hanging around on outdated chat medium17:17
Kilosyeah but its ours17:18
Vince-0IRC is still very relevant, especially to software projects17:18
Kilosubuntu was built on irc17:18
Kilosthe original guys all worked from irc17:19
Trixar_zaIRC is being superseded by other forms of chat17:19
Trixar_zaBy the looks of it, XMPP is the golden child protocol right now17:19
Kilosas in used in pidgin?17:20
Kilosgtalk thing17:20
Kilosjabber thing17:20
Trixar_zaGtalk, Jabber, Facebook Chat and Whatsapp17:20
Trixar_zaMxit too if you count South Africa :P17:21
Kilosmxit is world wide too17:21
Vince-0xmpp is very different from IRC regarding channels, operators, auth etc17:21
Vince-0xmpp is more just message passing17:21
Kilosboet used it from saudi arabia and tara uses it from aus17:21
Vince-0so it still needs all manner of application to enable user functionality,17:21
Trixar_zaIt's support is pretty interesting17:22
not_founddinner time17:22
Vince-0mxit hacked xmpp up17:22
Trixar_zaSo did Whatsapp17:22
Vince-0siff networks those, imho17:23
Trixar_zabut it still uses many of the inhered features for XMPP17:23
Trixar_zaYeah, they keep changing it to keep people from hacking into Whatsapp with a desktop client17:23
Vince-0walled garden / closed comms network is a silly idea17:23
digigramevening all17:25
Kiloshi digigram 17:25
digigramhey Kilos17:25
superflymxit closed themselves up for a long time, but eventually gave in and open-sourced some of their stuff17:25
Trixar_zaSpeaking of which, isn't IRC turning 30 this year?17:26
superflysomething like that... there was a nice write-up/interview with the guy who "invented" it 17:26
Trixar_zaNot "invented", he WiZ DID invent it17:27
Trixar_zaOthers just improved on it17:27
superflyja, him17:29
Trixar_zaOh wait, no, it's 25 this year17:30
Trixar_zaAugust 198817:30
Trixar_zaWish the bugger noted the date17:30
Vince-0So! Trixar_za do you do graphics art etc?17:32
Trixar_zaI've done the odd logo design17:32
Trixar_zaMostly by stumbling through GIMP17:32
Vince-0nice, I'm no artist17:32
Trixar_zaBut if it wasn't for free online guides, I probably would never have learned half of what I know17:32
Vince-0same for me and Linux stuff17:33
Mezenirhi kilos17:34
Mezenirhi all17:34
Kiloswhats surp Vince-0 ?17:34
Vince-0Sup! /Whatsup/What is up17:34
Kilosoh sup17:35
Vince-0Forgive my slang, it is not becomming17:36
Vince-0er /becoming17:36
Trixar_zaAlways interesting how slang comes into existence17:36
Kilosi think its from peeps being to lazy to use the correct language to start with17:37
Vince-0oh I just made that up one day. I do prefer complete sentences when conversing17:37
Trixar_zaI tend to use contractions more myself17:37
Trixar_zaI even shorten people's names17:38
Kilosit seems to be the modern way17:38
Vince-0There is enough misunderstanding on-line as it is I guess: eg our previous discussion17:39
Trixar_zaAt least we're not using Mxit speak17:41
Trixar_zaThey make everything a acronym17:41
Vince-0Now that I detest especially when its in a work environment LOL17:41
Vince-0as if the number of characters determines the message cost or something17:42
not_foundTrixar_za: Just want to apologize for earlier... I am not judging you are your circumstances and hope you all the best in your en-devours... No hard feelings I hope?18:02
Trixar_zaNone what so ever18:03
Kiloswb not_found tummy full?18:03
Trixar_zaI've learned not to taking things on the internet too seriously18:03
not_foundk cool... I am glad :)18:03
Trixar_zaotherwise I'd be angry all the time18:03
not_foundyes thanks uncle Kilos ... now if I wasn't at work it would be "magie vol, ogies toe"18:03
Kilosweird how the tummy muscles try close eyes when tummy full hey18:04
Kiloslekker to nap after a good meal18:04
Kilosi cant fight with anyone here cause everyone has helped me18:06
not_foundanyway uncle Kilos ... the tutorials under GIMP I linked to earlier are very good at showing step by step how to do certain things in GIMP ... very nice if you like to learn by seeing and then trying... also if you enjoy those you should try inkscape... there is one guy that has done some brilliant tutorials on how to use it... very simple to follow and lots of fun 18:06
Kilosoh must i go the tutorials path18:07
Kilosty nlsthzn_ will do it18:07
Kilossimple is good18:07
Kilosoh my18:08
not_foundsometimes the easiest way to learn... see then do :)18:08
Kilosim so used to typing nl tab18:08
Trixar_zaI'm more a practical learner myself18:08
Kilosim too doff Trixar_za 18:08
Kilosdont understand greek18:08
Kiloslike man pages eeek18:09
Trixar_zaI use SliTaz18:09
Trixar_zawe don't have man pages :P18:09
not_foundwonder when they will become more political correct and call them person pages...18:10
Kiloshim/her pages18:10
Kilosthats what theyare doing with the bible isnt it18:11
Trixar_zaProbably would be more accurate to call them women pages18:11
Trixar_zaIt's long, technical and confusing with a logic of it's own18:11
Kilosfor me ya i battle to understand them18:11
Trixar_zaThat's a woman alright18:11
* not_found already had piracy tonight, not going religion and/or gender... uh uh...18:12
* not_found lurks18:12
Trixar_zaIt's a joke not_found18:12
Kilosor politics18:13
* not_found lurks harder18:13
Trixar_zaI do kind of understand women. They have the same desires and drives as men, so human nature explains them pretty well already18:13
Vince-0"Don't try to understand women. Only women understand women and they don't like each other" - The Internet18:13
Trixar_zaThey just express it differently18:13
Trixar_zaWell, women have to deal with the slut factor, which is why they sometimes act contrary to their desires18:16
Trixar_zaSlut Factor: Actions that may get one labeled as a slut or slutty18:16
Trixar_zaIt's also my theory on why gay men get laid more18:17
Kilosnot here man18:17
Kilostoo far off topic18:17
Trixar_zaTrue :P18:17
Trixar_zaIt's just one of the things on my mind. I'm compiling some ideas together so I can use it to write a script or something18:18
Trixar_zaa manuscript that is18:19
* not_found is lurking so hard he isn't even seen typing how hard he lurks18:26
Kilosnaand inetpro 18:26
Trixar_zaAnyway, I think piracy is the wrong word. It's unauthorized duplication, or a bootleg copy18:39
KilosMaaz, hmm...18:40
Maazhmm... is often used to try make others believe one is actually thinking18:40
Trixar_zaWhich means Maaz does it a lot18:46
Kilosno man maaz is clever and answers quickly18:46
Kilosonly sometimes he says oops google couldnt find anything18:47
superflyso, in other news, the wife also likes Ingress18:47
not_foundsuperfly: :) nice... I am still thinking of playing it ...18:51
Kilosnight all. sleep tight19:03
=== Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za
not_foundinetpro: what's up ?19:35
inetpronot_found: not much I guess19:36
not_foundah ok ...19:36
inetprowas just surprised to see kilos leaving just before I came in19:37
* inetpro was searching for cars again today19:37
inetprovery tough to find something decent in the 7 seater range19:38
not_foundoh wow19:41
not_foundI can imagine19:41
=== Trix[a]r_za is now known as Trixar_za
inetproso many in the luxury range19:46
* inetpro don't need luxury, just need a basic practical vehicle that doesn't cost an arm and a leg to keep on the road19:47
inetproI guess the Toyota Avanza comes closest to that but is not even cheap19:48
=== Trixar_za is now known as Trix[a]r_za
not_foundpity they don't make the original combi anymore20:01
inetproPerhaps I should just buy my first ever vehicle out of the box, the DFSK LOADHOPPER 1.3 Mini Bus? http://bit.ly/X0F2fA20:11
not_foundlink not loading for me but that is an epic name20:32
Vince-0here's a good article on free vs open source and manuals: http://advocacy.globalvoicesonline.org/2013/01/26/free-and-open-source-software/20:34

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