BraggartYa know, rather than create apps from scratch, why note patch GTK+, Qt libraries to be able to work on different form factors, similar to how some JS library makes the same website auto-adjust to whatever screen size it loads on?06:09
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rudrabfriends, as for ubuntu phones, can we expect an apt-get or autotools in ubuntu phone?10:55
rudrabhttp://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone is not giving much info about it! or even if it will be based on gtk+ or not...etc10:57
netcurliit says under http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/app-ecosystem that it supports html5, qml/qt, opengl.. so: no gtk+ by default11:00
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rudrabbut apt-get/autotools?11:08
M4rtinKI think that this is a very important question11:10
M4rtinKbasically - does it support package dependency handling ?11:10
popeyI don't think the finer details of package management on the phone have been finally worked out.11:11
M4rtinKmost mobile platforms (Android, BB10, Nokia/Ovi Store@N9) don't support it at all11:12
M4rtinKand its quite an issue if you need to bundle everything in your package11:12
popeyIt's a problem that is certainly being thought about, so it's not something we haven't considered ☺11:13
M4rtinKpopey: good :)11:13
M4rtinKpopey: for an example of a mobile platform with working package management see Maemo@N900 (it even uses apt-get ! :)11:14
M4rtinKthere are tons of user ported libraries11:14
rudrabpopey: I think so! but a linux is *not* linux until we can have freedom to install our own package!11:15
M4rtinKand many applications using theme, that would probably never been written without the readily available user-ported libraries in the repository11:15
M4rtinKrudrab: that's not enough, until it also pulls it's dependencies11:15
M4rtinKyou can install whatever on Android, but you must still either bundle everything or manually install multiple packages11:16
rudrabM4rtink: but then we have to root our phone, and void our warrenty.11:17
M4rtinKhmm, I don't think you need to root Android just to install third-party packages - just enable something in settings IIRC11:18
Sinan___Losing your warranty for just rooting your phone is plain crap. Do we loose it when we use root on dekstop systems? no. Why it happens when it comes to mobile phones :@11:19
M4rtinKa system where you need to void you waranty when installing software on your own device seems quite wrong BTW11:19
rudrabM4rtink: I think you are to modest. Sinan used the correct word: "Plain CRAP" ;)11:20
krovattihi everyone, what's interesting in the feed today? )11:21
rudrabhope ubuntu wont do that. dont have much hope with tizen when samsung is on board :(11:21
M4rtinKrudrab: yeah, they basically do everything behind closed doors11:22
Sinan___Ubuntu should make an agreement with a hardware manufacturer to do its own devices, like how MIUI community did a while a go11:22
M4rtinKit seems they don't even ignore (some of the ?) Intel developers :)11:23
Sinan___I'm sure tons of people would buy it11:23
Sinan___MIUI community is just rom developers and their users. Like cyanogenmod11:25
rudrabSinan: I think it the linux users last hope to have a real linux after maemo11:25
Sinan___Nokia intentionally screwed maemo. Unfortunately money comes first for big companies11:27
krovattirudrab: and they'll have11:28
krovattirudrab: maemo is an amazing system, which I love and other billions of peoples :)11:28
krovattiNokia sucks11:29
krovattiThey fucked Maemo, Symbian11:29
k1lbillions? i dont think maemo devices sold that often :)11:29
Sinan___Community did so with raspberry PI, MIUI phone etc. Ubuntu community can do this as well. Thousands of poeple in Ubuntu community. And they are ready to buy a native ubuntu phone11:29
M4rtinKkrovatti: yep, most other mobile OS don't come close - but a less dated hardware would be nice :)11:29
rudrabI agree.11:30
krovattik1l: I don't think so. I live in Russia and here is not only developers loves Maemo devices and users too and I think that's many peoples, not hundred, not thousand11:31
Sinan___I hate samsung, I have bought a note 2 a few days ago and I'm not happy at all11:31
krovattiSinan_: Note 2 is shit11:32
Sinan___I can't root it. They have put a control mechanism into their bootloader that check system every boot for su binaries :@11:32
k1lkrovatti: the n900 e.g. was only sold to nerds. not to regular users here in germany. and even those nerds switched to newer devices, most android ones, very fast11:32
krovattiSinan_: moreover, Android isn't good at all11:32
Sinan___I agree11:32
rudrabif maemo has small number, this is solely due to nokia. no marketing! see how the pushes M$...and what they did with maemo11:33
krovattik1l: yeah, n900 was shipped only to developers, I know11:33
Sinan___If I root my note 2, bootlader says system modified and voids my warranty :@11:33
k1lno, it was sold in stores. but no regular user wanted to buy11:33
krovattik1l: Hmm... but that's not about Russia. Here we continue to use it :) we love it :)11:34
M4rtinKwell, during the recent Maemo infrastructure migration11:34
M4rtinKthe new repository machine got swamped by 40k+ N900s asking for updates11:34
M4rtinKin  a short time window11:34
M4rtinKso there are still lots of them11:34
krovattik1l: for beginning, it was for developers only. Next month or some time ago it was sold to the regular users :)11:35
krovattiin Russia11:35
Sinan___Even further than that HTC is taking web sites that publishes custom roms for their devices :@11:35
Sinan___taking down*11:35
M4rtinK& looks like they usually don't end in  a drawer but are mostly sold to a new owner as there is still demand for them11:35
M4rtinKso new N900 users show up all the time :)11:36
k1lof course there ar still n900s around. but they are not used as they were intended to be11:36
k1lso here they are more like a raspberry pi with a touchscreen. some fiddeling here, some fiddeling there. but then its waiting some month in the drawer11:38
M4rtinKor in the boiler room: http://biopower.garage.maemo.org/11:39
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YuggeWhy can't we time jump until late february, I wanna play around with ubuntu-phone now :)16:45
Sinan___what phone do you have?16:49
YuggeGalaxy Nexus :)16:49
Sinan___it's ok then16:49
Sinan___do you have a mhl cable?16:50
YuggeNope, but I can always borrow one from a friend.16:52
g__Is there anyone who serious develops the calculator?17:37
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surgemcgeeIs this a "me bug" or a "Ubuntu bug"? -->  tail -f /var/log/syslog  :  Jan 27 13:28:10 Bust0ut12 kernel: [15660.016321] qmlscene[6168]: segfault at ffffffff85ca2a28 ip 00007f4b83b1e0e4 sp 00007fffbf31c5f0 error 4 in libQtQml.so.5.0.0[7f4b83a81000+20f000]18:36
surgemcgeeIt happens when I scroll a listview18:36
surgemcgeeWell, I guess puuton buttons inside of a component is causing that. Hmmmm18:49
surgemcgeeYa, MouseArea  is the way to go in component lisviews [solved]19:02
doomlordwhich quadcore phone is likely to get ubuntu phone first ?20:16
doomlord(ubuntu phone is a much bigger reason to get such a thing :))20:17
Sinan___none of them except Galaxy Nexus20:18
doomlordno official roadmap then?20:18
doomlordis it a case of waiting for the community to port it20:19
Sinan___Just my opinion20:19
Sinan___Galaxy Nexus is used for Ubuntu-phone developing20:19
doomlordsure I have one luckily20:19
Sinan___So that means it'll be compatible with only Galaxy Nexus20:20
doomlordi dont know the landscape of SoC's20:20
Sinan___there are no open source GPU drivers for most of android phones20:20
doomlordpresumably they exist in versions... and there's a quadcore verson of the galaxynexus chipset perhpas?20:20
doomlordi guess theres the google nexus 7 aswell for mobile ubuntu itch20:21
Sinan___therefore even if your android phone runs ubuntu-phone, there will be no hardware accelerated graphics20:21
Sinan___no hardware h.264 whatsoever20:22
doomlorddoes that apply to the galaxy nexus support were' seeing too20:22
doomlordah they say in the videos "gaming will be great, we're working with.."20:22
doomlordso i'm assuming Galaxy Nexus will have gpu support20:22
Sinan___yes but only with the ones that have open source GPU drivers20:22
Sinan___yes it'll20:23
doomlordpowrvr sgx540   ti omP20:23
Sinan___yes only that gpu has open source driver AFAIK20:24
doomlordperhps that means looking for pvr sgx based phones is a good bet20:24
dmj_novathis isn't exactly true20:26
doomlordpls elaborate20:27
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Sinan___this is just my opinion I said20:27
doomlordopensource sgx driver = not so?20:27
dmj_novaIt was announced that if the Ubuntu Phone was running an android-compatible kernel, you could find the binary driver for the android device and use that binary driver on Ubuntu Phone20:27
doomlordthat sounds more encouraging20:28
dmj_novaSo that driver can't ship with Ubuntu Phone, but someone could make a ROM that includes it or find some other way to distribute it20:28
Sinan___Have you ever seen Ubuntu ARM ports were using devices GPU ?20:29
dmj_novaIt's not ideal, but that was my interpretation of Mark's words20:29
Sinan___I tried several of them and none of them were working20:29
dmj_novaAny from Linaro?20:30
Sinan___yes ?20:30
Sinan___is ubuntu phone different from ubuntu ARM ?20:31
doomlordwant: ubuntu for ps vita :)20:31
doomlordi understand that is zero chance20:31
Sinan___I mean architecture20:31
dmj_novaSinan___: I believe they're related, but I'm betting there's been some under-the-hood work going on recently that makes the situation better20:32
dmj_novadoomlord: I'd guess the ps vita has a locked bootloader20:32
Sinan___I'd be awesome20:32
doomlordone can dream20:32
dmj_novaSinan___: I'd expect these should have Ubuntu GPU support: http://www.linaro.org/engineering/getting-started/low-cost-development-boards20:33
doomlordok well i will stick with my nexus for forseable future20:34
doomlorddoes ubuntu on nexus 7 use its gpu? (its tegra3?)20:35
bef0rdit should20:35
bef0rdsince afaik ubuntu phone uses android kernel/drivers20:35
Sinan___that's the point we need to find out20:35
Sinan___the most important thing20:36
bef0rdto make it easier for hw vendors, they don't have to give different drivers than the one they already provide for android20:36
dmj_novaMark Shuttleworth said all this during his keynote20:36
Sinan___if it will use android drivers and kernel, that'd be amazing20:36
bef0rdfirefox os does it too20:36
dmj_novaWell, Androids differences are *mostly* in the layers above the kernel20:37
dmj_novaand the android kernel has been converging with the mainline Linux kernel for a couple years too.20:37
bef0rdbut they all use dalvik and whatever java apps on android do use20:37
bef0rdneither ubuntu or firefox os will use that20:38
dmj_novait's the android userspace that is alien20:38
Sinan___I know, android based on dalvik jvm but I never thought ubuntu will use drivers the same way that android uses20:39
bef0rdwill *require* that, i guess they could still use it if they want to provide a compatibility layer to be able to use android apps20:39
doomlordis it true to say android is linux, or not (i know its not gnu/linux)20:39
doomlordlinux as in kernel?20:39
Sinan___kernel linux, OS dalvik java20:39
dmj_novaI believe Shuttleworth said that developers could include dalvik in their application if they wanted to port it that way20:40
doomlordwow so its a hybrid20:40
dmj_novaIt's a Linux OS20:40
dmj_novaIt's just a very oddball one20:41
dmj_novadifferent from the other Linux OS's (sometimes called GNU/Linux)20:41
doomlordevery app is a user?20:41
Sinan___android runs programs in Dalvik JVM, it's not a native linux20:41
dmj_novawell, lots of regular linux apps run in a jvm20:41
dmj_novalike Minecraft20:41
dmj_novabasically, if your app is written in java it's using a jvm20:42
Sinan___I didn't know that20:42
dmj_novajust not the dalvik one20:42
Sinan___don't they run natively?20:42
doomlordi think native code when i think linux, of couse that doesnt preclude jvm20:42
dmj_novajava apps are compiled to bytecode20:43
dmj_novawhich is then interpreted by the jvm20:43
dmj_novawhereas C code is compiled directly to instructions from the kind of processor it runs on20:44
dmj_novathat's what makes it native...there's no interpreter20:44
stasdizziHello, you intend your VoIP sip client integrated into the system?20:44
Sinan___yes, and that's why I curious about the performance loss caused by those interpreters20:45
Sinan___until android 2.1 android didn't have JIT20:45
doomlordnative code ftw20:46
Sinan___after 2.2 google started using JIT and there is a big speed up20:46
Sinan___I heard that manufacturers put hardware compiler to eliminate performance loss,is this true ?20:46
doomlordalthough i guess a lot of phone apps = native os services & java ui20:47
doomlordi have more faith in native code20:47
Sinan___me too20:47
Sinan___anyway I'm really happy to hear that Ubuntu-Phone will use android drivers :D20:49
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Robbiliehttp://jsfiddle.net/Robbilie/7CbDn/32/show/ tell me what you think :) works best on mobile :)22:05
k1l_that is tricky in fullscreen with a real unity running :)22:09
k1l_if i go to the left edge to rigger the launcher it triggers my real launcher too :)22:12
Robbilieoh xD22:12
Robbiliedoes it lag a lot for you? since i integrated the circles it seems to lagg like hell :(22:12
k1l_its not real smooth.22:14
Robbiliei ned to tweak some things...22:14
Robbiliek1l_, have you tried it on a mobile device? swiping to the second page...22:16
k1l_no, just here on my stationary laptop with mouse22:16
Robbiliei need to take a look a t the swipe script if its possible to make it work with a mouse22:17
Robbiliehttp://jsfiddle.net/Robbilie/7CbDn/34/show/ k1l_ a new version with swiping on desktop22:34
Robbilielast version for today ;)  http://jsfiddle.net/Robbilie/7CbDn/35/show/22:53

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