[06:09] <Braggart> Ya know, rather than create apps from scratch, why note patch GTK+, Qt libraries to be able to work on different form factors, similar to how some JS library makes the same website auto-adjust to whatever screen size it loads on?
[06:09] <Braggart> !heroine6
[06:09] <Braggart> !
[06:43] <Guest24754> hi
[10:55] <rudrab> friends, as for ubuntu phones, can we expect an apt-get or autotools in ubuntu phone?
[10:57] <rudrab> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone is not giving much info about it! or even if it will be based on gtk+ or not...etc
[11:00] <netcurli> it says under http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/phone/app-ecosystem that it supports html5, qml/qt, opengl.. so: no gtk+ by default
[11:08] <rudrab> but apt-get/autotools?
[11:10] <M4rtinK> I think that this is a very important question
[11:10] <M4rtinK> basically - does it support package dependency handling ?
[11:11] <popey> I don't think the finer details of package management on the phone have been finally worked out.
[11:12] <M4rtinK> most mobile platforms (Android, BB10, Nokia/Ovi Store@N9) don't support it at all
[11:12] <M4rtinK> and its quite an issue if you need to bundle everything in your package
[11:13] <popey> It's a problem that is certainly being thought about, so it's not something we haven't considered ☺
[11:13] <M4rtinK> popey: good :)
[11:14] <M4rtinK> popey: for an example of a mobile platform with working package management see Maemo@N900 (it even uses apt-get ! :)
[11:14] <M4rtinK> there are tons of user ported libraries
[11:15] <rudrab> popey: I think so! but a linux is *not* linux until we can have freedom to install our own package!
[11:15] <M4rtinK> and many applications using theme, that would probably never been written without the readily available user-ported libraries in the repository
[11:15] <M4rtinK> rudrab: that's not enough, until it also pulls it's dependencies
[11:16] <netcurli> https://plus.google.com/105286472679676145021/posts/FGNiwUSXRPw
[11:16] <M4rtinK> you can install whatever on Android, but you must still either bundle everything or manually install multiple packages
[11:17] <rudrab> M4rtink: but then we have to root our phone, and void our warrenty.
[11:18] <M4rtinK> hmm, I don't think you need to root Android just to install third-party packages - just enable something in settings IIRC
[11:19] <Sinan___> Losing your warranty for just rooting your phone is plain crap. Do we loose it when we use root on dekstop systems? no. Why it happens when it comes to mobile phones :@
[11:19] <M4rtinK> a system where you need to void you waranty when installing software on your own device seems quite wrong BTW
[11:20] <rudrab> M4rtink: I think you are to modest. Sinan used the correct word: "Plain CRAP" ;)
[11:21] <krovatti> hi everyone, what's interesting in the feed today? )
[11:21] <rudrab> hope ubuntu wont do that. dont have much hope with tizen when samsung is on board :(
[11:22] <M4rtinK> rudrab: yeah, they basically do everything behind closed doors
[11:22] <Sinan___> Ubuntu should make an agreement with a hardware manufacturer to do its own devices, like how MIUI community did a while a go
[11:23] <M4rtinK> it seems they don't even ignore (some of the ?) Intel developers :)
[11:23] <Sinan___> I'm sure tons of people would buy it
[11:25] <Sinan___> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=phttp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=k9rOlgNRo2U
[11:25] <Sinan___> MIUI community is just rom developers and their users. Like cyanogenmod
[11:25] <rudrab> Sinan: I think it the linux users last hope to have a real linux after maemo
[11:27] <Sinan___> Nokia intentionally screwed maemo. Unfortunately money comes first for big companies
[11:28] <krovatti> rudrab: and they'll have
[11:28] <krovatti> rudrab: maemo is an amazing system, which I love and other billions of peoples :)
[11:29] <krovatti> Nokia sucks
[11:29] <krovatti> They fucked Maemo, Symbian
[11:29] <k1l> billions? i dont think maemo devices sold that often :)
[11:29] <Sinan___> Community did so with raspberry PI, MIUI phone etc. Ubuntu community can do this as well. Thousands of poeple in Ubuntu community. And they are ready to buy a native ubuntu phone
[11:29] <M4rtinK> krovatti: yep, most other mobile OS don't come close - but a less dated hardware would be nice :)
[11:30] <rudrab> I agree.
[11:31] <krovatti> k1l: I don't think so. I live in Russia and here is not only developers loves Maemo devices and users too and I think that's many peoples, not hundred, not thousand
[11:31] <Sinan___> I hate samsung, I have bought a note 2 a few days ago and I'm not happy at all
[11:32] <krovatti> Sinan_: Note 2 is shit
[11:32] <Sinan___> I can't root it. They have put a control mechanism into their bootloader that check system every boot for su binaries :@
[11:32] <k1l> krovatti: the n900 e.g. was only sold to nerds. not to regular users here in germany. and even those nerds switched to newer devices, most android ones, very fast
[11:32] <krovatti> Sinan_: moreover, Android isn't good at all
[11:32] <Sinan___> I agree
[11:33] <rudrab> if maemo has small number, this is solely due to nokia. no marketing! see how the pushes M$...and what they did with maemo
[11:33] <krovatti> k1l: yeah, n900 was shipped only to developers, I know
[11:33] <Sinan___> If I root my note 2, bootlader says system modified and voids my warranty :@
[11:33] <k1l> no, it was sold in stores. but no regular user wanted to buy
[11:34] <krovatti> k1l: Hmm... but that's not about Russia. Here we continue to use it :) we love it :)
[11:34] <M4rtinK> well, during the recent Maemo infrastructure migration
[11:34] <M4rtinK> the new repository machine got swamped by 40k+ N900s asking for updates
[11:34] <M4rtinK> in  a short time window
[11:34] <M4rtinK> so there are still lots of them
[11:35] <krovatti> k1l: for beginning, it was for developers only. Next month or some time ago it was sold to the regular users :)
[11:35] <krovatti> in Russia
[11:35] <Sinan___> Even further than that HTC is taking web sites that publishes custom roms for their devices :@
[11:35] <Sinan___> taking down*
[11:35] <M4rtinK> & looks like they usually don't end in  a drawer but are mostly sold to a new owner as there is still demand for them
[11:36] <M4rtinK> so new N900 users show up all the time :)
[11:36] <k1l> of course there ar still n900s around. but they are not used as they were intended to be
[11:38] <k1l> so here they are more like a raspberry pi with a touchscreen. some fiddeling here, some fiddeling there. but then its waiting some month in the drawer
[11:39] <M4rtinK> or in the boiler room: http://biopower.garage.maemo.org/
[16:45] <Yugge> Why can't we time jump until late february, I wanna play around with ubuntu-phone now :)
[16:49] <Sinan___> what phone do you have?
[16:49] <Yugge> Galaxy Nexus :)
[16:49] <Sinan___> it's ok then
[16:50] <Sinan___> do you have a mhl cable?
[16:52] <Yugge> Nope, but I can always borrow one from a friend.
[17:37] <g__> Is there anyone who serious develops the calculator?
[18:36] <surgemcgee> Is this a "me bug" or a "Ubuntu bug"? -->  tail -f /var/log/syslog  :  Jan 27 13:28:10 Bust0ut12 kernel: [15660.016321] qmlscene[6168]: segfault at ffffffff85ca2a28 ip 00007f4b83b1e0e4 sp 00007fffbf31c5f0 error 4 in libQtQml.so.5.0.0[7f4b83a81000+20f000]
[18:36] <surgemcgee> It happens when I scroll a listview
[18:49] <surgemcgee> Well, I guess puuton buttons inside of a component is causing that. Hmmmm
[19:02] <surgemcgee> Ya, MouseArea  is the way to go in component lisviews [solved]
[20:16] <doomlord> which quadcore phone is likely to get ubuntu phone first ?
[20:17] <doomlord> (ubuntu phone is a much bigger reason to get such a thing :))
[20:18] <Sinan___> none of them except Galaxy Nexus
[20:18] <doomlord> no official roadmap then?
[20:19] <doomlord> is it a case of waiting for the community to port it
[20:19] <Sinan___> Just my opinion
[20:19] <Sinan___> Galaxy Nexus is used for Ubuntu-phone developing
[20:19] <doomlord> sure I have one luckily
[20:20] <Sinan___> So that means it'll be compatible with only Galaxy Nexus
[20:20] <doomlord> i dont know the landscape of SoC's
[20:20] <Sinan___> there are no open source GPU drivers for most of android phones
[20:20] <doomlord> presumably they exist in versions... and there's a quadcore verson of the galaxynexus chipset perhpas?
[20:21] <doomlord> i guess theres the google nexus 7 aswell for mobile ubuntu itch
[20:21] <Sinan___> therefore even if your android phone runs ubuntu-phone, there will be no hardware accelerated graphics
[20:21] <doomlord> yikes
[20:22] <Sinan___> no hardware h.264 whatsoever
[20:22] <doomlord> does that apply to the galaxy nexus support were' seeing too
[20:22] <Sinan___> decoding*
[20:22] <doomlord> ah they say in the videos "gaming will be great, we're working with.."
[20:22] <doomlord> so i'm assuming Galaxy Nexus will have gpu support
[20:22] <Sinan___> yes but only with the ones that have open source GPU drivers
[20:23] <Sinan___> yes it'll
[20:23] <doomlord> powrvr sgx540   ti omP
[20:24] <Sinan___> yes only that gpu has open source driver AFAIK
[20:24] <doomlord> perhps that means looking for pvr sgx based phones is a good bet
[20:25] <Sinan___> yep
[20:26] <dmj_nova> this isn't exactly true
[20:27] <doomlord> pls elaborate
[20:27] <Sinan___> this is just my opinion I said
[20:27] <doomlord> opensource sgx driver = not so?
[20:27] <dmj_nova> It was announced that if the Ubuntu Phone was running an android-compatible kernel, you could find the binary driver for the android device and use that binary driver on Ubuntu Phone
[20:28] <doomlord> that sounds more encouraging
[20:28] <dmj_nova> So that driver can't ship with Ubuntu Phone, but someone could make a ROM that includes it or find some other way to distribute it
[20:29] <Sinan___> Have you ever seen Ubuntu ARM ports were using devices GPU ?
[20:29] <dmj_nova> It's not ideal, but that was my interpretation of Mark's words
[20:29] <dmj_nova> yes
[20:29] <Sinan___> I tried several of them and none of them were working
[20:30] <dmj_nova> Any from Linaro?
[20:30] <Sinan___> yes ?
[20:31] <Sinan___> is ubuntu phone different from ubuntu ARM ?
[20:31] <doomlord> want: ubuntu for ps vita :)
[20:31] <doomlord> i understand that is zero chance
[20:31] <Sinan___> I mean architecture
[20:32] <dmj_nova> Sinan___: I believe they're related, but I'm betting there's been some under-the-hood work going on recently that makes the situation better
[20:32] <dmj_nova> doomlord: I'd guess the ps vita has a locked bootloader
[20:32] <Sinan___> I'd be awesome
[20:32] <doomlord> one can dream
[20:33] <dmj_nova> Sinan___: I'd expect these should have Ubuntu GPU support: http://www.linaro.org/engineering/getting-started/low-cost-development-boards
[20:34] <doomlord> ok well i will stick with my nexus for forseable future
[20:35] <doomlord> does ubuntu on nexus 7 use its gpu? (its tegra3?)
[20:35] <bef0rd> it should
[20:35] <bef0rd> since afaik ubuntu phone uses android kernel/drivers
[20:35] <Sinan___> that's the point we need to find out
[20:36] <Sinan___> the most important thing
[20:36] <bef0rd> to make it easier for hw vendors, they don't have to give different drivers than the one they already provide for android
[20:36] <dmj_nova> Mark Shuttleworth said all this during his keynote
[20:36] <Sinan___> if it will use android drivers and kernel, that'd be amazing
[20:36] <bef0rd> firefox os does it too
[20:37] <dmj_nova> Well, Androids differences are *mostly* in the layers above the kernel
[20:37] <dmj_nova> and the android kernel has been converging with the mainline Linux kernel for a couple years too.
[20:37] <bef0rd> but they all use dalvik and whatever java apps on android do use
[20:38] <bef0rd> neither ubuntu or firefox os will use that
[20:38] <dmj_nova> it's the android userspace that is alien
[20:39] <Sinan___> I know, android based on dalvik jvm but I never thought ubuntu will use drivers the same way that android uses
[20:39] <bef0rd> will *require* that, i guess they could still use it if they want to provide a compatibility layer to be able to use android apps
[20:39] <doomlord> is it true to say android is linux, or not (i know its not gnu/linux)
[20:39] <doomlord> linux as in kernel?
[20:39] <Sinan___> both
[20:39] <Sinan___> kernel linux, OS dalvik java
[20:40] <dmj_nova> I believe Shuttleworth said that developers could include dalvik in their application if they wanted to port it that way
[20:40] <doomlord> wow so its a hybrid
[20:40] <dmj_nova> It's a Linux OS
[20:41] <dmj_nova> It's just a very oddball one
[20:41] <dmj_nova> different from the other Linux OS's (sometimes called GNU/Linux)
[20:41] <doomlord> every app is a user?
[20:41] <Sinan___> android runs programs in Dalvik JVM, it's not a native linux
[20:41] <dmj_nova> well, lots of regular linux apps run in a jvm
[20:41] <dmj_nova> like Minecraft
[20:42] <dmj_nova> basically, if your app is written in java it's using a jvm
[20:42] <Sinan___> I didn't know that
[20:42] <dmj_nova> just not the dalvik one
[20:42] <Sinan___> don't they run natively?
[20:42] <doomlord> i think native code when i think linux, of couse that doesnt preclude jvm
[20:43] <dmj_nova> java apps are compiled to bytecode
[20:43] <dmj_nova> which is then interpreted by the jvm
[20:44] <dmj_nova> whereas C code is compiled directly to instructions from the kind of processor it runs on
[20:44] <dmj_nova> that's what makes it native...there's no interpreter
[20:44] <stasdizzi> Hello, you intend your VoIP sip client integrated into the system?
[20:45] <Sinan___> yes, and that's why I curious about the performance loss caused by those interpreters
[20:45] <Sinan___> until android 2.1 android didn't have JIT
[20:46] <doomlord> native code ftw
[20:46] <Sinan___> after 2.2 google started using JIT and there is a big speed up
[20:46] <Sinan___> I heard that manufacturers put hardware compiler to eliminate performance loss,is this true ?
[20:47] <doomlord> although i guess a lot of phone apps = native os services & java ui
[20:47] <doomlord> i have more faith in native code
[20:47] <Sinan___> me too
[20:49] <Sinan___> anyway I'm really happy to hear that Ubuntu-Phone will use android drivers :D
[22:05] <Robbilie> http://jsfiddle.net/Robbilie/7CbDn/32/show/ tell me what you think :) works best on mobile :)
[22:09] <k1l_> that is tricky in fullscreen with a real unity running :)
[22:09] <Robbilie> ?
[22:12] <k1l_> if i go to the left edge to rigger the launcher it triggers my real launcher too :)
[22:12] <Robbilie> oh xD
[22:12] <Robbilie> does it lag a lot for you? since i integrated the circles it seems to lagg like hell :(
[22:14] <k1l_> its not real smooth.
[22:14] <Robbilie> damn...
[22:14] <Robbilie> i ned to tweak some things...
[22:14] <Robbilie> *need
[22:16] <Robbilie> k1l_, have you tried it on a mobile device? swiping to the second page...
[22:16] <k1l_> no, just here on my stationary laptop with mouse
[22:17] <Robbilie> i need to take a look a t the swipe script if its possible to make it work with a mouse
[22:34] <Robbilie> http://jsfiddle.net/Robbilie/7CbDn/34/show/ k1l_ a new version with swiping on desktop
[22:53] <Robbilie> last version for today ;)  http://jsfiddle.net/Robbilie/7CbDn/35/show/
[22:56] <jafa> hellod