=== yofel_ is now known as yofel [13:12] hm why do we still build the xserver udebs on ubuntu, do we actually use them anywhere? [13:12] no [13:18] mlankhorst: do they bother you :) [13:18] tjaalton: only in the sense it takes unnecessary build time.. [13:19] well, d-i does build the gtk version too which uses them [13:19] http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/raring/main/installer-amd64/current/images/netboot/gtk/ etc [13:19] aw :( [13:20] the official iso's don't use them [13:20] so that's a yes then, ah well [13:20] how many seconds does it take building them?-) [13:21] not on my main system, but waiting on arm builders in ppa's for example [13:22] ah === chiluk_away is now known as chiluk [14:19] hm looks like we could just pull some patches to make reverse optimus work on xserver 1.13 [14:19] eg intel driving output on nouveau or radeon [14:21] so my t420s could use displayport (owned by nvidia)? [14:22] hmm no, that's normal optimus?-) [14:22] nah 'normal' optimus would let you switch to the nvidia card for rendering the internal display if you plug something in [14:24] of course.. [14:25] but yeah looks like we need to pull some patches from fedora xserver for that [14:26] airlied also updated the autobind patch for it [14:27] I think we'd want some commits from the latest -modesetting to fix some race bugs.. [14:27] also for quantal/precise [14:27] just that it's hard to verify they actually fix a race [14:29] yeah :( [14:31] sru's are so annoying for x, mostly because a lot of the upstream development on those drivers is just bugfixes. You kind of want all of them even if not directly affected by them. [14:50] mm i did get the hdmi output to show up on the eee [14:54] actually using it caused x to crash, I suspect I have to grab the f18 patches :/ [15:18] hm still crashes === jono is now known as Guest10241 [17:52] does xorg default to mirror or span for multimonitor configs? [17:57] seb128, it mirrors by default but that doesn't matter, since gnome-randr sets its own defaults [18:00] bryce, g-s-d's xrandr default is "don't do anything, let xorg handle it", which is what should happen at least in the greeter and for new users [18:01] then g-s-d write a config and overwrite that once you use the xrandr panel in system settings [18:04] seb128, hmm, I thought it did override things [18:04] seb128, anyway if it isn't, then it should be coming up as mirrored by default. [18:05] bryce, that was changed some cycle ago, http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/data/org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.xrandr.gschema.xml.in.in?id=75e052127eeb022d83b7a744b110d8bde5b7280c [18:05] seb128, aha that explains it [18:06] bryce, the key description states "'do-nothing' will use the default Xorg behaviour (extend the desktop in recent versions)" [18:06] is that wrong/do we patch Xorg? [18:14] seb128: thats only true in fedora as far as I can see.. lovely [18:14] aka http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/xorg-x11-server.git/tree/xserver-1.6.99-right-of.patch [18:17] although I do note there's been a lot of change of this code in current git recently [18:55] seb128, so, testing this on precise with HW. when I hotplug a new monitor (no monitor.xml present), with gnome running the external monitor shows up to the right of my lvds. [18:56] seb128, when I start up a raw X session with no gnome running, then do the same, the monitor does not turn on by default when hotplugged, and when I do turn it on, it's mirrored. [18:57] Sarvatt, does this match what you're seeing? [19:03] seb128, did you file a bug report for jason? [19:08] bryce: hotplug under gnome, extended, bare xinit I get mirrored, and gnome is mirrored after killing that X and restarting lightdm [19:09] Sarvatt, ok, same as me [19:33] bryce, not yet, I was trying to figure out if there is a bug and what component is to blame for it first [19:33] bryce, Sarvatt: seems like a g-s-d issue then? [19:33] seb128, yep [19:34] bryce, thanks [19:35] seb128, see the 'Handling of hotplug' section on https://live.gnome.org/RandR [19:37] bryce, ok, I guess we need to backport http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-settings-daemon/commit/?id=32f7a938fca072e14bad1928b492e29ba0e3090c [19:37] "Despite the name, the "default-monitors-setup" key is only used at boot time. After hot-plug of an external monitor, the "xinerama" setup is always used." [19:37] bryce, thanks for the help tracking it down ;-) [19:38] seb128, I think that does the opposite of what's wanted [19:38] maybe, let me look closer [19:39] + case GSD_XRANDR_BOOT_BEHAVIOUR_DO_NOTHING: [19:39] + config = make_xinerama_setup (manager, priv->rw_screen); [19:39] is weird [19:39] I think it's based on the fact that upstream assumes xinerama is the default xorg behaviour [19:40] yeah [19:40] which is likely because upstream is using fedora, and they are patching their xserver... [19:40] seb128, hum, yes that could be [19:40] I will comment on that bug and check with them [19:41] so yeah I think that patch might end up doing the "right" thing accidentally, but I think it might end up just forcing all multi-head to mirrored, which isn't quite what we want [19:41] I think otherwise the patch makes change if the make_xinerama_setup in that case is changed to make_mirror_setup instead [19:41] well, that's the default behaviour [19:42] if you use the panel you end up with a monitors.xml config and that's used [19:42] * bryce nods [19:44] seb128, ok so with this patch it looks like the CONF_KEY_DEFAULT_MONITORS_SETUP key would let us control what our policy is, separate from fedora, yes? [19:45] seb128, well, aside from that here's my thought: [19:45] bryce, yes, that's a gsettings key, we can change the default in our override (where we set the theme, wallpaper, etc) [19:45] in make_xinerama_setup() it iterates through the outputs, and lays them out one to the right of the next [19:46] we could have that code check the physical dimensions of the screen, and if it is 0mm x 0mm, don't increment x in that case. [19:46] hrm, although that will overlay rather than clone, that's not quite right either [19:47] seb128, anyway, my thinking is that there needs to be some logic somewhere that detects if the output is a projector, and in that case clone, but in all other cases extend [19:47] bryce, do you see that logic to be an xorg thing or a GNOME thing? [19:48] doing it at the server level would make it work for all desktops, but I guess the xserver is not really the place to make such decisions on behaviours? [19:49] don't think there's any reliable way to detect projectors.. [19:49] seb128, well, to my knowledge, it's not something we're going to be correct 100% of the time. (There isn't an EDID property that says "I'm a projector".) So it feels like something that should be on the client end, so it can be configured by the user when it's wrong [19:50] ok [19:50] well, what's worse is seemingly random behaviour [19:50] well, I will backport a tweaked version of the gsd fix as a first fix [19:50] we can try to be smarter then, though I'm not sure either how to guess that a projector is in use [19:50] hrm [19:51] why would you want to clone for a projector? [19:52] so you can see the presentation from your laptop screen, so no need to strain your neck trying to see the big screen :) [19:52] I guess that's why.. [19:52] jcristau, it's in the specification to do it that way [19:53] "the specification"? [19:53] "Connecting to a Projector or TV [19:53] When connecting to a projector or TV (heuristic evaluation of the EDID can determine with reasonable certainty whether the display is a projector or TV), the default behaviour is to mirror displays, and presentation mode is checked by default" [19:53] https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/document/d/1aHvJ-iIw-59bXTYBmIhQqEx0za2h9jpFE_RhZ2VOvJc/edit?authkey=CJO5wPkH&hl=en_GB [19:53] restricted [19:53] that's not a rationale.. [19:54] maybe the presentation app should clone it's window :) [19:54] usually when using a projector i want to have notes or something on the laptop, not a clone. maybe it's just me... [19:54] tjaalton, what if the user is presenting things using several apps? [19:56] bryce: he can tick 'mirror' :) [19:56] jcristau, it's just you. ;-) [19:57] actually what jcristau said it's how powerpoint/impress works [19:57] or one mode of it [19:58] tjaalton, that's not what they're asking for though [19:58] probably misused by 95% of it's users :) [19:58] they? [19:58] TPTB [19:59] Chris Kenyon & co., etc. [20:07] so they didn't get proper feedback :) [20:13] tjaalton, lack of understanding has never stopped a manager from making a decision ;-) [20:13] tjaalton: LibO has a presentation mode like that too [20:13] JanC: yep, that's what I meant by 'impress' :) [20:14] I was reading a bit too fast and only saw the first ☺ [20:16] but I remember people were begging for it in Impress for a long time, so I assume it's something that people really want and should work ☺ [20:16] bryce: :) [20:17] of course, when doing presentations using Evince, maybe clone is better [20:18] and don't call it "mirror", the last thing you want is a *mirrored* image :p [20:18] right :) [20:20] it's like that funny feature of Intel's drivers where you can turn somebody's screen upside down with a shortcut :p [20:20] in Windows [22:41] tjaalton, think it's worthwhile to look at displaylink on the nexus7 again? we're still basically screwed with too-old kernel and too-new X.org right? Have you had any other ideas? [23:10] displaylink? is that like displayport? [23:14] bryce: right, not worth it imo [23:14] bjsnider: no, graphics over usb [23:15] erm [23:15] the adapter is behind usb, the display connector can be whatever [23:18] tjaalton, yeah sounds good