ubottusomsip called the ops in #ubuntu (repeated flooding from tj___)02:15
ubottuBen64 called the ops in #ubuntu ()11:28
=== Amaranthus is now known as Amaranth
ubottuIn ubottu, Rin said: !Redo Redo! Backup and Recovery is so simple that anyone can use it. It is the easiest, most complete network compatible disaster recovery solution available for Linux, Windows & Apple. No matter what, you can have your system back up and running in as little as 10 minutes. http://redobackup.org/12:45
ikoniajustmeh: ? whats up13:15
justmehreview #ubuntu plz13:15
ikoniajustmeh: can you give me a minute,13:16
ikoniajustmeh: from what I read back (please correct me if wrong)13:17
justmehother than being kinda mean to AP when was interrupting, was 100% correct. pinning is supported. its an official method. backports dont always have what you need. also sometimes multiple repos have the same package versions - need to take extra steps for preferences. instead of a good intelligent discussion on what pinning is and what its good for, and what its NOT good for (just as important), you got another lil spat.13:17
ikoniathe issue I can see is offering "blind" solutions, that while will work, may not serve the user best13:18
ikoniaI don't have an issue with pinning13:18
justmehthat could only be caused by not hearing the whole answer ikonia which is why i got so angry at actionparsnip13:18
ikonianot really13:18
ikoniaI understand what you are saying13:18
justmeh'only be caused' was a bad choice of words..13:19
ikoniabut if a user comes in and says "I want to update libc from the version supplied in ubuntu version X to version X+1" - thats not really a "pinning" issue13:19
justmehthat's a different user i thought13:19
ikoniathat's a bad idea, no ammount of pinning will be acceptable13:19
justmehlet me check logs13:19
ikoniathat's the only user I see, hence why please correct me if I'm wrong13:19
justmehstarted with a b13:19
ikoniathe bottom line of mixing repo packages, is unacceptable13:20
ikoniapinning versions from within the distros' same version repo, great, a really useful tool13:20
ikoniathinks just appear to have got a little heated and you calling people names doesn't help13:20
justmehJan 29 04:43:00 <bharath>how to add quantal repo to 12.04? for libnl update version13:21
justmehunacceptable is kinda strong ikonia13:21
justmehlibnl: http://www.infradead.org/~tgr/libnl/13:22
ikoniaso - that is unacceptable13:23
ikoniaadding a quantel repo to 12.04 = unacceptable13:23
ikoniait's not something we suggest in #ubuntu to users due to the problems it can and most probably will cause13:23
justmehunder _any_ scenario?13:23
ikoniathe repos are locked to versions for a reason13:24
justmehoh quite agreed13:24
ikoniayou (yourself) can of course do this, if you feel confident, but recommending it blindly to users, isn't helpful13:24
justmehcan we review the actual advice given?13:25
ikoniaI've just scanned through it in the #ubuntu channel13:25
ikoniais there something specific ?13:25
justmehyeah let me grep13:25
ikoniaplease don't paste a load of lines in the channel13:25
ikoniaplease just summerise what you want to say13:25
justmehJan 29 04:49:57 <justmeh>finally, when you actually pull the package in this way it may bring in other stuff. which is where the acutal danger is. it often breaks stuff13:27
justmehJan 29 04:50:21 <justmeh>so anyway it might be easier to compile from source if you really need that one package13:27
justmeh^--- i believe i had already covered this13:27
ikonianot really13:27
justmehand would have wrapped up by going back to the compiling13:27
ikoniaas youv'e just told him to compile from source13:27
justmehits a placeholder13:27
ikoniawhich offers just as much/more danager unlesss you have a solid grasp of what you are doing13:27
ikoniajustmeh: the bottom line is just think about the user you are talking to13:28
justmehi don't disagree there either - i lean towards more13:28
justmehyes ikonia exactly.13:28
ikoniaI a user is asking how to put on a plaster, telling them how to perform brain surgery isn't going to end well13:28
ikoniawhich is en essense what you're doing13:28
justmehso without actually explaining the dangers - they will do it the first good google search they try13:28
justmehJan 29 04:57:03 <justmeh>i have version xyz of abc in my system. my system is setup as follows (whatever). i want to upgrade abc to version def, because i want to _something_13:29
justmeh^--- this here gives some info about what i need to better help this person in a SAFE manner13:29
ikoniajustmeh: yes, you are explaining how to ask the question13:30
justmehbut somehow no one bothers to follow up on that huh?13:30
ikoniathat's not really doing anything "safe"13:30
ikoniaincomplete ?13:30
justmehmy explanation to the person13:30
ikonia(apologies but you're not really making sense)13:30
justmehlike i said after pinning i would have come back to compiling13:30
ikoniathat last line is just you advising him how to ask a question clearly, which is great, but has no relevence to the other discussion13:31
justmehbut IdleOne had already warned me13:31
ikoniajustmeh: yes, and like I've said pining in his example is unacceptable, compiling in his example would have been more dangerous13:31
justmehso instead the discussion was left in an even more dangerous state13:31
ikoniano it wasn't13:31
ikoniahe was told it's not a wise move13:31
justmehby me13:31
ikoniano, I told him not to13:31
justmehbut there's another issue here13:32
ikoniaI also asked him to verify if lib-c6 was actually the libc reference I suspected it wasn't13:32
ikoniahe didn't respond,13:32
ikoniaso I think he "got it" that it wasn't a wise move13:32
ikoniajustmeh: ok, so are we done ? are you ok with what I've explained to you ?13:34
justmehyou were speaking with ayman by my read13:35
justmehi was speaking with bharath13:35
justmehand i seem to be the only person who made an effort to answer the question13:35
ikoniaok, but the concept is still the same13:35
ikoniathe individual person doesn't matter, the concept of how you advise them is13:35
justmehthe fact that you think pinning would have been less dangerous than compiling means you guys should have been on that other doods arse13:35
justmehyes  quite13:36
ikoniaplease tone it down13:36
justmehJan 29 04:54:53 <justmeh>because, since ubuntu came from debian, and pinning is supported, and its there in ubuntu, and its supported.. its just not wise or recommended most of the time.13:36
ikoniaforget "other people"13:36
ikoniaI'm talking to you13:36
justmehI just don't see an issue.13:36
justmehi cant promise to not talk about something that's built in the OS13:37
ikoniaI don't think that one line is an issue13:37
ikoniait's the multiple discussions that came after that13:37
ikoniano-one is asking you not to talk about things that are part of the OS13:37
ikoniajust apply common sense into what you suggest to people, that's all13:37
justmehI was trying to come around to the OPS point13:37
justmehbut couldnt ikonia - i found documentation on it13:37
justmehyes ikonia i agree. that's why i give a full explanation. its a lesson not a one sentance answer13:38
justmehtechnically one can install, compile and emerge gentoo in like 3 commands. its not recommended, or wise though13:38
ikoniaI'm not interested in gentoo13:38
justmehit is supported.13:38
ikoniaor compiling13:38
ikoniaI'm interested in you providing sensible thought out help to users asking for it13:38
ikoniaif something is not wise to do - don't suggest it13:38
ikoniathere is no point13:39
justmehikonia, i do support for a living13:39
ikoniajudge the person / question being asked13:39
ikoniaapply common sense/thought13:39
justmehyes exactly13:39
ikoniajustmeh: so ?13:39
ikoniayour job has no relevence13:39
justmehthis person knows very little13:39
justmehneeded a lesson in this badly13:39
ikoniaright, so mentioning pinning and compiling is pointless/bad13:39
ikoniano - they don't need a lesson13:39
ikoniathey need the information to resolve their problem13:39
ikoniaand a lesson in pinning and compiling isn't it13:39
justmehthis must be our fundimental disconnect then13:39
justmeh* fundamental13:40
ikoniaI see no harm in expanding on topics to users if needed, so please don't think that13:40
justmehhow early in the game did you get here? #ubuntu i mean13:40
ikoniathat has no relevence to this conversation13:40
justmehit relates to the disconnect13:41
ikoniajustmeh: if you need to expand to give solid help, please do so, but just pointing users at information that won't really help them and opens the doors to more issus/risk, well, then we go back to applying common sense13:41
ikoniathat's all I'm asking for, is a little thought into the user you are helping,13:41
justmehlook i could have come in and blown smoke13:41
ikoniayou tried that in ##linux13:41
justmehi could have just pulled up one of the irssi's from another box13:41
ikoniait didn't end well13:41
ikoniajustmeh: do that if you want13:41
ikoniaI don't really care13:41
justmeh##linux? ended fine13:41
ikoniaas long as I don't see a problem in #ubuntu, it's of no concern to me13:42
justmehi bitched about ppl and then i got bitched about. no worries.13:42
justmehscuse the language but its accurate13:42
ikoniano you got told to shut up13:42
ikoniayou got the operators called on you13:42
justmehanyway i could have blown smoke. but instead i figured perhaps i'd try to explain13:42
ikoniaand you tried to be smart to people13:42
ikoniait didn't end well13:42
ikoniaand it's why I'm trying to be crystal clear to you13:42
ikoniabecause I don't want that to happen in #ubuntu13:42
justmeh[05:41:40] <ikonia> that's all I'm asking for, is a little thought into the user you are helping,13:43
justmeh^--- my point is this was the result of thouht13:43
ikoniaperfect, that's all I want13:43
justmehpinning is important, and they were all set to find it on a google search if they did one13:43
ikoniathen they can ask question on it13:44
justmehit's been recommended before, multimedia was a clear case of this13:44
ikoniait's not recommended13:44
justmehusually what happens is someone makes a backport to stop the crazyness or a ppa13:44
ikoniaand when it is recommended it's a tried and tested solution13:44
justmehbut until this has happened the options are pinning, or compiling13:44
ikoniawhich are not accetpable for that user13:44
justmehor technically, adding a repo, upgrading a package, watching everything die, and remove the repo so nothing can be updated13:44
ikoniaok, I'm getting tired of this now, we are just going around in a loop13:45
justmehbut as we both agreed the user never stated the _need_13:45
ikoniaI'll ask you one more time, focus on helping the user, their issue, their problem, not a lesson in linux13:45
ikoniaif you're comfortable with that, that's great13:45
justmehi can only do both13:45
ikoniathen you will not re-gain access to #ubuntu at this time13:45
justmehthere is no such thing as an answer without a lesson13:45
ikoniaok, then I think we are done here13:45
justmehi'm already there lol13:45
ikoniaif you want to join #ubuntu-ops at any time to get the ban removed, please do so13:46
justmehdo your deeds.13:46
ikoniain the mean time, please part this channel13:46
ikoniasorry ? pardon ?13:46
justmehthere's no such thing as an answer without a lesson13:47
ikoniayou've said that13:47
ikoniaI've explained13:47
ikoniaplease /part the channel13:47
ikoniayou are welcome back to #ubuntu-ops at any time if you can resolve the issue I've asked of you13:47
justmehi cannot pardon your offense of forgetting this13:47
justmehyour urge to give a quick answer means the end user often gets the wrong information. not enough framework is layed for them to understand WHY choices must be made13:48
ikoniaI'm sorry, I don't understand13:48
ikoniayou're not making any sense13:48
ikoniaplease /part the channel now, and again, feel free to rejoin if you want to discusss it more13:48
justmehwhat do you not understand?13:48
ikoniawhen you just say random things like "i cannot pardon your offense of forgetting this"13:49
ikoniabut either way, I'm done13:49
ikoniaso I'll ask a final time, please /part the channel now13:49
justmeh[05:46:36] <ikonia> sorry ? pardon ?13:49
justmehi assume you were speaking bad spanish, i took it in its original sense13:49
ikoniaI'm speaking English13:50
justmehas am i13:50
ikoniaok, well as I said I wasn't following your sentences when you say random phrases as detailed above13:50
ikoniabut it doesn't matter now. So I think we are done now13:50
justmehso lets review one last time13:50
justmehin order to be in #ubuntu one needs to do what in your mind?13:50
ikoniaI don't want to review it again13:51
ikoniaI feel you are trying to waste my time, and I have other things to do13:51
ikoniayou're welcome to rejoin #ubuntu-ops at a later date to review it13:51
justmehlets review.13:51
ikoniaplease don't be smart13:51
ikoniait's a poor attitude.13:51
justmehby what standard.13:51
Castialhey I live on campus and it says my I am banned from #Ubuntu21:45
Castialit would be nice to have access to this channel21:46
=== Castial is now known as Castiel
=== Castiel is now known as Castial
PiciCastial: hi21:47
PiciLet me take a look21:47
Castialthanks man21:48
Castialappreciate it21:48
PiciHm.. Looks like there was an issue with another user at that IP back in October21:49
PiciI think its safe to assume that they've probably moved on from that address.21:49
Castialjust this IP or the entire IP block?21:49
PiciThat IP21:49
Castialbecause the college gives us all static IP addresses internally and uses like a block of say 10 for the outbound addresses21:49
Castialits a pain to set up lol21:50
PiciWell, maybe they graduated (hopefully), looks like they first popped up on our radar back in 201021:50
PiciAnyway, you're unbanned now.21:50
Castialthank you very much I appreciate your time and I can understand how other college kids are21:51
=== Fuchs is now known as zombiefox
=== zombiefox is now known as Fuchs

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