| ubottu | somsip called the ops in #ubuntu (repeated flooding from tj___) | 02:15 |
|---|---|---|
| ubottu | Ben64 called the ops in #ubuntu () | 11:28 |
| === Amaranthus is now known as Amaranth | ||
| ubottu | In ubottu, Rin said: !Redo Redo! Backup and Recovery is so simple that anyone can use it. It is the easiest, most complete network compatible disaster recovery solution available for Linux, Windows & Apple. No matter what, you can have your system back up and running in as little as 10 minutes. http://redobackup.org/ | 12:45 |
| justmeh | orly | 13:14 |
| ikonia | justmeh: ? whats up | 13:15 |
| justmeh | review #ubuntu plz | 13:15 |
| ikonia | justmeh: can you give me a minute, | 13:16 |
| justmeh | sure | 13:16 |
| ikonia | justmeh: from what I read back (please correct me if wrong) | 13:17 |
| justmeh | other than being kinda mean to AP when was interrupting, was 100% correct. pinning is supported. its an official method. backports dont always have what you need. also sometimes multiple repos have the same package versions - need to take extra steps for preferences. instead of a good intelligent discussion on what pinning is and what its good for, and what its NOT good for (just as important), you got another lil spat. | 13:17 |
| ikonia | the issue I can see is offering "blind" solutions, that while will work, may not serve the user best | 13:18 |
| ikonia | I don't have an issue with pinning | 13:18 |
| justmeh | that could only be caused by not hearing the whole answer ikonia which is why i got so angry at actionparsnip | 13:18 |
| ikonia | not really | 13:18 |
| ikonia | I understand what you are saying | 13:18 |
| justmeh | 'only be caused' was a bad choice of words.. | 13:19 |
| ikonia | but if a user comes in and says "I want to update libc from the version supplied in ubuntu version X to version X+1" - thats not really a "pinning" issue | 13:19 |
| justmeh | actually | 13:19 |
| justmeh | that's a different user i thought | 13:19 |
| ikonia | that's a bad idea, no ammount of pinning will be acceptable | 13:19 |
| justmeh | let me check logs | 13:19 |
| ikonia | that's the only user I see, hence why please correct me if I'm wrong | 13:19 |
| justmeh | started with a b | 13:19 |
| ikonia | the bottom line of mixing repo packages, is unacceptable | 13:20 |
| ikonia | pinning versions from within the distros' same version repo, great, a really useful tool | 13:20 |
| ikonia | thinks just appear to have got a little heated and you calling people names doesn't help | 13:20 |
| justmeh | Jan 29 04:43:00 <bharath>how to add quantal repo to 12.04? for libnl update version | 13:21 |
| justmeh | unacceptable is kinda strong ikonia | 13:21 |
| justmeh | libnl: http://www.infradead.org/~tgr/libnl/ | 13:22 |
| ikonia | so - that is unacceptable | 13:23 |
| ikonia | adding a quantel repo to 12.04 = unacceptable | 13:23 |
| ikonia | it's not something we suggest in #ubuntu to users due to the problems it can and most probably will cause | 13:23 |
| justmeh | under _any_ scenario? | 13:23 |
| ikonia | yes | 13:24 |
| ikonia | the repos are locked to versions for a reason | 13:24 |
| justmeh | oh quite agreed | 13:24 |
| ikonia | you (yourself) can of course do this, if you feel confident, but recommending it blindly to users, isn't helpful | 13:24 |
| justmeh | can we review the actual advice given? | 13:25 |
| ikonia | I've just scanned through it in the #ubuntu channel | 13:25 |
| ikonia | is there something specific ? | 13:25 |
| justmeh | yeah let me grep | 13:25 |
| ikonia | please don't paste a load of lines in the channel | 13:25 |
| ikonia | please just summerise what you want to say | 13:25 |
| justmeh | Jan 29 04:49:57 <justmeh>finally, when you actually pull the package in this way it may bring in other stuff. which is where the acutal danger is. it often breaks stuff | 13:27 |
| justmeh | Jan 29 04:50:21 <justmeh>so anyway it might be easier to compile from source if you really need that one package | 13:27 |
| justmeh | ^--- i believe i had already covered this | 13:27 |
| ikonia | not really | 13:27 |
| justmeh | and would have wrapped up by going back to the compiling | 13:27 |
| ikonia | as youv'e just told him to compile from source | 13:27 |
| justmeh | its a placeholder | 13:27 |
| ikonia | which offers just as much/more danager unlesss you have a solid grasp of what you are doing | 13:27 |
| ikonia | justmeh: the bottom line is just think about the user you are talking to | 13:28 |
| justmeh | i don't disagree there either - i lean towards more | 13:28 |
| justmeh | yes ikonia exactly. | 13:28 |
| ikonia | I a user is asking how to put on a plaster, telling them how to perform brain surgery isn't going to end well | 13:28 |
| ikonia | which is en essense what you're doing | 13:28 |
| justmeh | so without actually explaining the dangers - they will do it the first good google search they try | 13:28 |
| justmeh | Jan 29 04:57:03 <justmeh>i have version xyz of abc in my system. my system is setup as follows (whatever). i want to upgrade abc to version def, because i want to _something_ | 13:29 |
| justmeh | ^--- this here gives some info about what i need to better help this person in a SAFE manner | 13:29 |
| ikonia | justmeh: yes, you are explaining how to ask the question | 13:30 |
| justmeh | but somehow no one bothers to follow up on that huh? | 13:30 |
| ikonia | that's not really doing anything "safe" | 13:30 |
| justmeh | again | 13:30 |
| justmeh | incomplete | 13:30 |
| ikonia | incomplete ? | 13:30 |
| ikonia | what | 13:30 |
| justmeh | my explanation to the person | 13:30 |
| ikonia | (apologies but you're not really making sense) | 13:30 |
| justmeh | like i said after pinning i would have come back to compiling | 13:30 |
| ikonia | that last line is just you advising him how to ask a question clearly, which is great, but has no relevence to the other discussion | 13:31 |
| justmeh | but IdleOne had already warned me | 13:31 |
| ikonia | justmeh: yes, and like I've said pining in his example is unacceptable, compiling in his example would have been more dangerous | 13:31 |
| justmeh | so instead the discussion was left in an even more dangerous state | 13:31 |
| ikonia | no it wasn't | 13:31 |
| ikonia | he was told it's not a wise move | 13:31 |
| justmeh | by me | 13:31 |
| ikonia | no, I told him not to | 13:31 |
| justmeh | but there's another issue here | 13:32 |
| ikonia | I also asked him to verify if lib-c6 was actually the libc reference I suspected it wasn't | 13:32 |
| ikonia | he didn't respond, | 13:32 |
| ikonia | so I think he "got it" that it wasn't a wise move | 13:32 |
| ikonia | justmeh: ok, so are we done ? are you ok with what I've explained to you ? | 13:34 |
| justmeh | you were speaking with ayman by my read | 13:35 |
| justmeh | i was speaking with bharath | 13:35 |
| justmeh | and i seem to be the only person who made an effort to answer the question | 13:35 |
| ikonia | ok, but the concept is still the same | 13:35 |
| ikonia | the individual person doesn't matter, the concept of how you advise them is | 13:35 |
| justmeh | the fact that you think pinning would have been less dangerous than compiling means you guys should have been on that other doods arse | 13:35 |
| justmeh | yes quite | 13:36 |
| ikonia | please tone it down | 13:36 |
| justmeh | Jan 29 04:54:53 <justmeh>because, since ubuntu came from debian, and pinning is supported, and its there in ubuntu, and its supported.. its just not wise or recommended most of the time. | 13:36 |
| ikonia | forget "other people" | 13:36 |
| ikonia | I'm talking to you | 13:36 |
| justmeh | ^-- | 13:36 |
| justmeh | I just don't see an issue. | 13:36 |
| justmeh | i cant promise to not talk about something that's built in the OS | 13:37 |
| ikonia | I don't think that one line is an issue | 13:37 |
| ikonia | it's the multiple discussions that came after that | 13:37 |
| ikonia | no-one is asking you not to talk about things that are part of the OS | 13:37 |
| ikonia | just apply common sense into what you suggest to people, that's all | 13:37 |
| justmeh | I was trying to come around to the OPS point | 13:37 |
| justmeh | but couldnt ikonia - i found documentation on it | 13:37 |
| justmeh | yes ikonia i agree. that's why i give a full explanation. its a lesson not a one sentance answer | 13:38 |
| justmeh | technically one can install, compile and emerge gentoo in like 3 commands. its not recommended, or wise though | 13:38 |
| ikonia | I'm not interested in gentoo | 13:38 |
| justmeh | it is supported. | 13:38 |
| ikonia | or compiling | 13:38 |
| ikonia | I'm interested in you providing sensible thought out help to users asking for it | 13:38 |
| ikonia | if something is not wise to do - don't suggest it | 13:38 |
| ikonia | there is no point | 13:39 |
| justmeh | ikonia, i do support for a living | 13:39 |
| ikonia | judge the person / question being asked | 13:39 |
| ikonia | apply common sense/thought | 13:39 |
| justmeh | yes exactly | 13:39 |
| ikonia | justmeh: so ? | 13:39 |
| ikonia | your job has no relevence | 13:39 |
| justmeh | this person knows very little | 13:39 |
| justmeh | needed a lesson in this badly | 13:39 |
| ikonia | right, so mentioning pinning and compiling is pointless/bad | 13:39 |
| ikonia | no - they don't need a lesson | 13:39 |
| ikonia | they need the information to resolve their problem | 13:39 |
| ikonia | and a lesson in pinning and compiling isn't it | 13:39 |
| justmeh | this must be our fundimental disconnect then | 13:39 |
| justmeh | * fundamental | 13:40 |
| ikonia | great, | 13:40 |
| ikonia | I see no harm in expanding on topics to users if needed, so please don't think that | 13:40 |
| justmeh | how early in the game did you get here? #ubuntu i mean | 13:40 |
| justmeh | 5.04? | 13:40 |
| ikonia | that has no relevence to this conversation | 13:40 |
| justmeh | it relates to the disconnect | 13:41 |
| justmeh | directly. | 13:41 |
| ikonia | justmeh: if you need to expand to give solid help, please do so, but just pointing users at information that won't really help them and opens the doors to more issus/risk, well, then we go back to applying common sense | 13:41 |
| ikonia | that's all I'm asking for, is a little thought into the user you are helping, | 13:41 |
| justmeh | look i could have come in and blown smoke | 13:41 |
| ikonia | you tried that in ##linux | 13:41 |
| justmeh | i could have just pulled up one of the irssi's from another box | 13:41 |
| ikonia | it didn't end well | 13:41 |
| ikonia | justmeh: do that if you want | 13:41 |
| justmeh | ahahaha | 13:41 |
| ikonia | I don't really care | 13:41 |
| justmeh | ##linux? ended fine | 13:41 |
| ikonia | as long as I don't see a problem in #ubuntu, it's of no concern to me | 13:42 |
| justmeh | i bitched about ppl and then i got bitched about. no worries. | 13:42 |
| justmeh | scuse the language but its accurate | 13:42 |
| ikonia | no you got told to shut up | 13:42 |
| ikonia | you got the operators called on you | 13:42 |
| justmeh | anyway i could have blown smoke. but instead i figured perhaps i'd try to explain | 13:42 |
| justmeh | lol | 13:42 |
| ikonia | and you tried to be smart to people | 13:42 |
| ikonia | it didn't end well | 13:42 |
| ikonia | and it's why I'm trying to be crystal clear to you | 13:42 |
| ikonia | because I don't want that to happen in #ubuntu | 13:42 |
| justmeh | [05:41:40] <ikonia> that's all I'm asking for, is a little thought into the user you are helping, | 13:43 |
| justmeh | ^--- my point is this was the result of thouht | 13:43 |
| justmeh | *thought | 13:43 |
| ikonia | perfect, that's all I want | 13:43 |
| justmeh | pinning is important, and they were all set to find it on a google search if they did one | 13:43 |
| ikonia | then they can ask question on it | 13:44 |
| justmeh | it's been recommended before, multimedia was a clear case of this | 13:44 |
| ikonia | it's not recommended | 13:44 |
| justmeh | usually what happens is someone makes a backport to stop the crazyness or a ppa | 13:44 |
| ikonia | and when it is recommended it's a tried and tested solution | 13:44 |
| justmeh | but until this has happened the options are pinning, or compiling | 13:44 |
| ikonia | which are not accetpable for that user | 13:44 |
| justmeh | or technically, adding a repo, upgrading a package, watching everything die, and remove the repo so nothing can be updated | 13:44 |
| ikonia | ok, I'm getting tired of this now, we are just going around in a loop | 13:45 |
| justmeh | but as we both agreed the user never stated the _need_ | 13:45 |
| ikonia | I'll ask you one more time, focus on helping the user, their issue, their problem, not a lesson in linux | 13:45 |
| ikonia | if you're comfortable with that, that's great | 13:45 |
| justmeh | i can only do both | 13:45 |
| ikonia | then you will not re-gain access to #ubuntu at this time | 13:45 |
| justmeh | there is no such thing as an answer without a lesson | 13:45 |
| ikonia | ok, then I think we are done here | 13:45 |
| justmeh | i'm already there lol | 13:45 |
| justmeh | ok | 13:45 |
| ikonia | if you want to join #ubuntu-ops at any time to get the ban removed, please do so | 13:46 |
| justmeh | do your deeds. | 13:46 |
| ikonia | in the mean time, please part this channel | 13:46 |
| ikonia | sorry ? pardon ? | 13:46 |
| justmeh | there's no such thing as an answer without a lesson | 13:47 |
| ikonia | you've said that | 13:47 |
| ikonia | I've explained | 13:47 |
| justmeh | yes | 13:47 |
| ikonia | please /part the channel | 13:47 |
| ikonia | you are welcome back to #ubuntu-ops at any time if you can resolve the issue I've asked of you | 13:47 |
| justmeh | i cannot pardon your offense of forgetting this | 13:47 |
| justmeh | your urge to give a quick answer means the end user often gets the wrong information. not enough framework is layed for them to understand WHY choices must be made | 13:48 |
| ikonia | I'm sorry, I don't understand | 13:48 |
| ikonia | you're not making any sense | 13:48 |
| ikonia | please /part the channel now, and again, feel free to rejoin if you want to discusss it more | 13:48 |
| justmeh | what do you not understand? | 13:48 |
| ikonia | when you just say random things like "i cannot pardon your offense of forgetting this" | 13:49 |
| ikonia | but either way, I'm done | 13:49 |
| ikonia | so I'll ask a final time, please /part the channel now | 13:49 |
| justmeh | [05:46:36] <ikonia> sorry ? pardon ? | 13:49 |
| justmeh | i assume you were speaking bad spanish, i took it in its original sense | 13:49 |
| ikonia | I'm speaking English | 13:50 |
| justmeh | as am i | 13:50 |
| ikonia | ok, well as I said I wasn't following your sentences when you say random phrases as detailed above | 13:50 |
| ikonia | but it doesn't matter now. So I think we are done now | 13:50 |
| justmeh | lol | 13:50 |
| justmeh | so lets review one last time | 13:50 |
| justmeh | in order to be in #ubuntu one needs to do what in your mind? | 13:50 |
| ikonia | I don't want to review it again | 13:51 |
| ikonia | I feel you are trying to waste my time, and I have other things to do | 13:51 |
| ikonia | you're welcome to rejoin #ubuntu-ops at a later date to review it | 13:51 |
| justmeh | lets review. | 13:51 |
| ikonia | please don't be smart | 13:51 |
| ikonia | it's a poor attitude. | 13:51 |
| justmeh | by what standard. | 13:51 |
| Castial | hey I live on campus and it says my I am banned from #Ubuntu | 21:45 |
| Castial | it would be nice to have access to this channel | 21:46 |
| === Castial is now known as Castiel | ||
| === Castiel is now known as Castial | ||
| Pici | Castial: hi | 21:47 |
| Pici | Let me take a look | 21:47 |
| Castial | thanks man | 21:48 |
| Castial | appreciate it | 21:48 |
| Pici | Hm.. Looks like there was an issue with another user at that IP back in October | 21:49 |
| Pici | I think its safe to assume that they've probably moved on from that address. | 21:49 |
| Castial | just this IP or the entire IP block? | 21:49 |
| Pici | That IP | 21:49 |
| Castial | because the college gives us all static IP addresses internally and uses like a block of say 10 for the outbound addresses | 21:49 |
| Castial | its a pain to set up lol | 21:50 |
| Pici | Well, maybe they graduated (hopefully), looks like they first popped up on our radar back in 2010 | 21:50 |
| Pici | Anyway, you're unbanned now. | 21:50 |
| Castial | thank you very much I appreciate your time and I can understand how other college kids are | 21:51 |
| === Fuchs is now known as zombiefox | ||
| === zombiefox is now known as Fuchs | ||
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