[02:15] somsip called the ops in #ubuntu (repeated flooding from tj___) [11:28] Ben64 called the ops in #ubuntu () === Amaranthus is now known as Amaranth [12:45] In ubottu, Rin said: !Redo Redo! Backup and Recovery is so simple that anyone can use it. It is the easiest, most complete network compatible disaster recovery solution available for Linux, Windows & Apple. No matter what, you can have your system back up and running in as little as 10 minutes. http://redobackup.org/ [13:14] orly [13:15] justmeh: ? whats up [13:15] review #ubuntu plz [13:16] justmeh: can you give me a minute, [13:16] sure [13:17] justmeh: from what I read back (please correct me if wrong) [13:17] other than being kinda mean to AP when was interrupting, was 100% correct. pinning is supported. its an official method. backports dont always have what you need. also sometimes multiple repos have the same package versions - need to take extra steps for preferences. instead of a good intelligent discussion on what pinning is and what its good for, and what its NOT good for (just as important), you got another lil spat. [13:18] the issue I can see is offering "blind" solutions, that while will work, may not serve the user best [13:18] I don't have an issue with pinning [13:18] that could only be caused by not hearing the whole answer ikonia which is why i got so angry at actionparsnip [13:18] not really [13:18] I understand what you are saying [13:19] 'only be caused' was a bad choice of words.. [13:19] but if a user comes in and says "I want to update libc from the version supplied in ubuntu version X to version X+1" - thats not really a "pinning" issue [13:19] actually [13:19] that's a different user i thought [13:19] that's a bad idea, no ammount of pinning will be acceptable [13:19] let me check logs [13:19] that's the only user I see, hence why please correct me if I'm wrong [13:19] started with a b [13:20] the bottom line of mixing repo packages, is unacceptable [13:20] pinning versions from within the distros' same version repo, great, a really useful tool [13:20] thinks just appear to have got a little heated and you calling people names doesn't help [13:21] Jan 29 04:43:00 how to add quantal repo to 12.04? for libnl update version [13:21] unacceptable is kinda strong ikonia [13:22] libnl: http://www.infradead.org/~tgr/libnl/ [13:23] so - that is unacceptable [13:23] adding a quantel repo to 12.04 = unacceptable [13:23] it's not something we suggest in #ubuntu to users due to the problems it can and most probably will cause [13:23] under _any_ scenario? [13:24] yes [13:24] the repos are locked to versions for a reason [13:24] oh quite agreed [13:24] you (yourself) can of course do this, if you feel confident, but recommending it blindly to users, isn't helpful [13:25] can we review the actual advice given? [13:25] I've just scanned through it in the #ubuntu channel [13:25] is there something specific ? [13:25] yeah let me grep [13:25] please don't paste a load of lines in the channel [13:25] please just summerise what you want to say [13:27] Jan 29 04:49:57 finally, when you actually pull the package in this way it may bring in other stuff. which is where the acutal danger is. it often breaks stuff [13:27] Jan 29 04:50:21 so anyway it might be easier to compile from source if you really need that one package [13:27] ^--- i believe i had already covered this [13:27] not really [13:27] and would have wrapped up by going back to the compiling [13:27] as youv'e just told him to compile from source [13:27] its a placeholder [13:27] which offers just as much/more danager unlesss you have a solid grasp of what you are doing [13:28] justmeh: the bottom line is just think about the user you are talking to [13:28] i don't disagree there either - i lean towards more [13:28] yes ikonia exactly. [13:28] I a user is asking how to put on a plaster, telling them how to perform brain surgery isn't going to end well [13:28] which is en essense what you're doing [13:28] so without actually explaining the dangers - they will do it the first good google search they try [13:29] Jan 29 04:57:03 i have version xyz of abc in my system. my system is setup as follows (whatever). i want to upgrade abc to version def, because i want to _something_ [13:29] ^--- this here gives some info about what i need to better help this person in a SAFE manner [13:30] justmeh: yes, you are explaining how to ask the question [13:30] but somehow no one bothers to follow up on that huh? [13:30] that's not really doing anything "safe" [13:30] again [13:30] incomplete [13:30] incomplete ? [13:30] what [13:30] my explanation to the person [13:30] (apologies but you're not really making sense) [13:30] like i said after pinning i would have come back to compiling [13:31] that last line is just you advising him how to ask a question clearly, which is great, but has no relevence to the other discussion [13:31] but IdleOne had already warned me [13:31] justmeh: yes, and like I've said pining in his example is unacceptable, compiling in his example would have been more dangerous [13:31] so instead the discussion was left in an even more dangerous state [13:31] no it wasn't [13:31] he was told it's not a wise move [13:31] by me [13:31] no, I told him not to [13:32] but there's another issue here [13:32] I also asked him to verify if lib-c6 was actually the libc reference I suspected it wasn't [13:32] he didn't respond, [13:32] so I think he "got it" that it wasn't a wise move [13:34] justmeh: ok, so are we done ? are you ok with what I've explained to you ? [13:35] you were speaking with ayman by my read [13:35] i was speaking with bharath [13:35] and i seem to be the only person who made an effort to answer the question [13:35] ok, but the concept is still the same [13:35] the individual person doesn't matter, the concept of how you advise them is [13:35] the fact that you think pinning would have been less dangerous than compiling means you guys should have been on that other doods arse [13:36] yes quite [13:36] please tone it down [13:36] Jan 29 04:54:53 because, since ubuntu came from debian, and pinning is supported, and its there in ubuntu, and its supported.. its just not wise or recommended most of the time. [13:36] forget "other people" [13:36] I'm talking to you [13:36] ^-- [13:36] I just don't see an issue. [13:37] i cant promise to not talk about something that's built in the OS [13:37] I don't think that one line is an issue [13:37] it's the multiple discussions that came after that [13:37] no-one is asking you not to talk about things that are part of the OS [13:37] just apply common sense into what you suggest to people, that's all [13:37] I was trying to come around to the OPS point [13:37] but couldnt ikonia - i found documentation on it [13:38] yes ikonia i agree. that's why i give a full explanation. its a lesson not a one sentance answer [13:38] technically one can install, compile and emerge gentoo in like 3 commands. its not recommended, or wise though [13:38] I'm not interested in gentoo [13:38] it is supported. [13:38] or compiling [13:38] I'm interested in you providing sensible thought out help to users asking for it [13:38] if something is not wise to do - don't suggest it [13:39] there is no point [13:39] ikonia, i do support for a living [13:39] judge the person / question being asked [13:39] apply common sense/thought [13:39] yes exactly [13:39] justmeh: so ? [13:39] your job has no relevence [13:39] this person knows very little [13:39] needed a lesson in this badly [13:39] right, so mentioning pinning and compiling is pointless/bad [13:39] no - they don't need a lesson [13:39] they need the information to resolve their problem [13:39] and a lesson in pinning and compiling isn't it [13:39] this must be our fundimental disconnect then [13:40] * fundamental [13:40] great, [13:40] I see no harm in expanding on topics to users if needed, so please don't think that [13:40] how early in the game did you get here? #ubuntu i mean [13:40] 5.04? [13:40] that has no relevence to this conversation [13:41] it relates to the disconnect [13:41] directly. [13:41] justmeh: if you need to expand to give solid help, please do so, but just pointing users at information that won't really help them and opens the doors to more issus/risk, well, then we go back to applying common sense [13:41] that's all I'm asking for, is a little thought into the user you are helping, [13:41] look i could have come in and blown smoke [13:41] you tried that in ##linux [13:41] i could have just pulled up one of the irssi's from another box [13:41] it didn't end well [13:41] justmeh: do that if you want [13:41] ahahaha [13:41] I don't really care [13:41] ##linux? ended fine [13:42] as long as I don't see a problem in #ubuntu, it's of no concern to me [13:42] i bitched about ppl and then i got bitched about. no worries. [13:42] scuse the language but its accurate [13:42] no you got told to shut up [13:42] you got the operators called on you [13:42] anyway i could have blown smoke. but instead i figured perhaps i'd try to explain [13:42] lol [13:42] and you tried to be smart to people [13:42] it didn't end well [13:42] and it's why I'm trying to be crystal clear to you [13:42] because I don't want that to happen in #ubuntu [13:43] [05:41:40] that's all I'm asking for, is a little thought into the user you are helping, [13:43] ^--- my point is this was the result of thouht [13:43] *thought [13:43] perfect, that's all I want [13:43] pinning is important, and they were all set to find it on a google search if they did one [13:44] then they can ask question on it [13:44] it's been recommended before, multimedia was a clear case of this [13:44] it's not recommended [13:44] usually what happens is someone makes a backport to stop the crazyness or a ppa [13:44] and when it is recommended it's a tried and tested solution [13:44] but until this has happened the options are pinning, or compiling [13:44] which are not accetpable for that user [13:44] or technically, adding a repo, upgrading a package, watching everything die, and remove the repo so nothing can be updated [13:45] ok, I'm getting tired of this now, we are just going around in a loop [13:45] but as we both agreed the user never stated the _need_ [13:45] I'll ask you one more time, focus on helping the user, their issue, their problem, not a lesson in linux [13:45] if you're comfortable with that, that's great [13:45] i can only do both [13:45] then you will not re-gain access to #ubuntu at this time [13:45] there is no such thing as an answer without a lesson [13:45] ok, then I think we are done here [13:45] i'm already there lol [13:45] ok [13:46] if you want to join #ubuntu-ops at any time to get the ban removed, please do so [13:46] do your deeds. [13:46] in the mean time, please part this channel [13:46] sorry ? pardon ? [13:47] there's no such thing as an answer without a lesson [13:47] you've said that [13:47] I've explained [13:47] yes [13:47] please /part the channel [13:47] you are welcome back to #ubuntu-ops at any time if you can resolve the issue I've asked of you [13:47] i cannot pardon your offense of forgetting this [13:48] your urge to give a quick answer means the end user often gets the wrong information. not enough framework is layed for them to understand WHY choices must be made [13:48] I'm sorry, I don't understand [13:48] you're not making any sense [13:48] please /part the channel now, and again, feel free to rejoin if you want to discusss it more [13:48] what do you not understand? [13:49] when you just say random things like "i cannot pardon your offense of forgetting this" [13:49] but either way, I'm done [13:49] so I'll ask a final time, please /part the channel now [13:49] [05:46:36] sorry ? pardon ? [13:49] i assume you were speaking bad spanish, i took it in its original sense [13:50] I'm speaking English [13:50] as am i [13:50] ok, well as I said I wasn't following your sentences when you say random phrases as detailed above [13:50] but it doesn't matter now. So I think we are done now [13:50] lol [13:50] so lets review one last time [13:50] in order to be in #ubuntu one needs to do what in your mind? [13:51] I don't want to review it again [13:51] I feel you are trying to waste my time, and I have other things to do [13:51] you're welcome to rejoin #ubuntu-ops at a later date to review it [13:51] lets review. [13:51] please don't be smart [13:51] it's a poor attitude. [13:51] by what standard. [21:45] hey I live on campus and it says my I am banned from #Ubuntu [21:46] it would be nice to have access to this channel === Castial is now known as Castiel === Castiel is now known as Castial [21:47] Castial: hi [21:47] Let me take a look [21:48] thanks man [21:48] appreciate it [21:49] Hm.. Looks like there was an issue with another user at that IP back in October [21:49] I think its safe to assume that they've probably moved on from that address. [21:49] just this IP or the entire IP block? [21:49] That IP [21:49] because the college gives us all static IP addresses internally and uses like a block of say 10 for the outbound addresses [21:50] its a pain to set up lol [21:50] Well, maybe they graduated (hopefully), looks like they first popped up on our radar back in 2010 [21:50] Anyway, you're unbanned now. [21:51] thank you very much I appreciate your time and I can understand how other college kids are === Fuchs is now known as zombiefox === zombiefox is now known as Fuchs