| rick_h_ | wheee | 00:45 |
|---|---|---|
| snap-l | Evening | 00:51 |
| rick_h_ | party | 00:51 |
| rick_h_ | morning and all that jazz | 12:05 |
| brousch | Sick kid again today | 12:20 |
| rick_h_ | :( | 12:22 |
| snap-l | brousch: Hope he feels better soon. | 12:51 |
| snap-l | Sick kid === no fun | 12:51 |
| * rick_h_ feels sick...just added MongoDB to vim dict | 12:52 | |
| snap-l | rick_h_: all are welcome. | 12:53 |
| rick_h_ | grrrr...stupid people that can't set up a installable python package correctly... | 13:04 |
| snap-l | Are we having fun yet? | 14:43 |
| rick_h_ | not really | 14:43 |
| rick_h_ | is it friday yet | 14:44 |
| snap-l | Not yet. | 14:44 |
| snap-l | Though we're gettig closer. | 14:46 |
| jrwren | I am. | 14:52 |
| jrwren | I think I know btter than pylint :p | 14:52 |
| rick_h_ | hah | 14:52 |
| rick_h_ | just got through linting through a stupid library I had to fork because it's .tar.gz was uninstallable | 14:52 |
| rick_h_ | what is pylint telling you? The only one I think is the multiple imports around a try/except | 14:53 |
| jrwren | pylint rule C0103 is stupid IMO. attr names (should match [a-z_][a-z0-9_]{2,30}$) | 14:54 |
| jrwren | feels wrong. | 14:54 |
| jrwren | {2,} is more like it | 14:54 |
| rick_h_ | oh man, what attr name are you using? | 14:54 |
| jrwren | _update_trafic_trends_from_values_ | 14:55 |
| jrwren | and even that I don't like | 14:55 |
| rick_h_ | ends with _? and from_values I find is normally just wasted verbage :/ | 14:55 |
| jrwren | I'd rather it be update_traffic_trends_from_MORE_DESCRIPTION_values | 14:55 |
| rick_h_ | update_traffic_trends(values=None, another_source=None): dispatch from here | 14:56 |
| rick_h_ | imo :) | 14:56 |
| jrwren | yeah, i considered that. | 14:56 |
| jrwren | then I also consider someone with a shite editor who doesn't see the doc or even args. | 14:56 |
| jrwren | I miss types. | 14:56 |
| rick_h_ | shush! | 14:56 |
| jrwren | trailing _ is throw back from C. I should stop that habbit. | 14:57 |
| jrwren | i guess it is not pythonic | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | if they miss that then shove it. If they can't see the code or the docs then fubar | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | what is it supposed to mean? Can't recall ever seeing that | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | the underscaore that is | 14:57 |
| jrwren | signifies private, like in python | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | that's what the _ is for | 14:57 |
| jrwren | but in C, all functions starting with _ are reserved | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | to start with | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | ah | 14:57 |
| jrwren | can't do that in C | 14:57 |
| jrwren | most compilers accept it, but it is technically out of spec. | 14:58 |
| rick_h_ | yea, the _update_traffic_trends already means private. And if it's private why bothering about docs/editors? | 14:58 |
| jrwren | that is the OTHER thing. | 14:58 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 14:58 |
| jrwren | C0111 pylint wants docstring on private | 14:58 |
| jrwren | I'm like WTF | 14:58 |
| jrwren | the bother is to convey intent to the next maintainer | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | sure, why not? You wrote it, you should doc it when you come back to your code. | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | right | 14:59 |
| jrwren | this is NOT simple code at all, it gets head twisting | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | all the more reason for docstrings | 14:59 |
| jrwren | oh, so you are syaing yes to docstrings on the private | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | yes | 14:59 |
| jrwren | cool. I usually do anyway :) | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | ok cool | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | people don't doc their code enough for my tastes. Drives me nuts | 15:00 |
| rick_h_ | got handed this to review the other day and drove me nuts that there's not a single comment about expected structure of the data, why it's formatted in the way it is, etc http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-jitsu/charmworld/trunk/view/head:/charmworld/jobs/cstat.py | 15:01 |
| rick_h_ | wanted to just return 'will-no-review-no-docs' | 15:01 |
| jrwren | and THAT is another reason I like static types. | 15:27 |
| jrwren | and I don't just mean static langs, but static types. | 15:27 |
| jrwren | if you are using all dicts for structure in a static lang, its no different than a dynamic lang for opaque data structure | 15:28 |
| jrwren | but when you define your own type heirarchy and use hte type system, its oh so discoverable | 15:28 |
| rick_h_ | right, well this is a mess because of mongodb everything's a dict pita | 15:30 |
| rick_h_ | we could implement our own model/type later on top but our TA has shot that down as unnecessary overhead :( | 15:30 |
| jrwren | your TA is a fool. | 15:31 |
| jrwren | :p | 15:31 |
| rick_h_ | hah! we can drink to that | 15:31 |
| jrwren | you should gift him a copy of Domain Driven Development and expense i. | 15:31 |
| rick_h_ | many gifts I could grant...some of them with spinny little sharp ends | 15:32 |
| rick_h_ | but anyway, sorry you and pylint disagree today | 15:32 |
| jrwren | its ok, i took your advice. | 15:33 |
| jrwren | if i've learned anything in the past year its that i'm terrible at python | 15:34 |
| rick_h_ | it should have been...there's always someone worse and usually paid more than you :P | 15:34 |
| jrwren | oh sure, I can make it do anything I want to, but its rarely pythonic when I do it. I usually think functional and then have to rethink to get it into python | 15:35 |
| rick_h_ | hmm, not sure why functional should throw it off | 15:35 |
| jrwren | i find functional programming in python to be particularly challenging | 15:35 |
| jrwren | i think because I'm used to C#,F#,ocaml style of functional | 15:36 |
| jrwren | list comprehensions are almost anti-functional IMO | 15:36 |
| jrwren | I know it isn't true | 15:36 |
| rick_h_ | ah ok. I mean you might need to grab some stdlib help but normally functional works ok | 15:36 |
| rick_h_ | but yea, it's a broad idea I guess | 15:36 |
| jrwren | it is a different functional thought process than I'm used to | 15:37 |
| jrwren | finding hte writing itertools funciton or deciding it doesn't exist... | 15:38 |
| snap-l | Honestly I find my biggest problem in Python is not making classes soon enough | 15:57 |
| snap-l | instead you get all of this sorta-related-data floating around inside of a file | 15:58 |
| brousch1 | rick_h_: Are you using Ming? http://merciless.sourceforge.net/tour.html | 16:16 |
| rick_h_ | brousch1: no, we're anti well defined schema atm...more overhead | 16:16 |
| brousch1 | speed freaks | 16:17 |
| jrwren | i have opposite problem with classes too soon. | 16:18 |
| jrwren | lots of behavior, no data | 16:18 |
| rick_h_ | every function call is sacred, every function call si great... | 16:18 |
| jrwren | should have been module level functions | 16:18 |
| jrwren | but i'm used to langs without module level functions where this is norm | 16:19 |
| brousch1 | The module is a class | 16:20 |
| rick_h_ | heh, without any instance separation | 16:21 |
| rick_h_ | on NO! it's a global! everyone run! | 16:21 |
| brousch1 | One instance should be enough for anyone | 16:21 |
| jrwren | the module is a class? | 16:24 |
| jrwren | no, its an instance of module | 16:25 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: he's being sarcastic. from app import models. models.function() | 16:25 |
| jrwren | oh, LOLz | 16:25 |
| brousch1 | greg-g: You feeling better? We found another lawyer to fill in last night. The talks went very well. | 17:11 |
| greg-g | brousch1: yeah, got to feeling better around 4pm my time, after a lot of time out in the sun. Glad it worked out OK! | 17:18 |
| brousch1 | he had a talk partially prepared for a local conference in a month on a similar topic, so it worked very well | 17:19 |
| greg-g | awesome | 17:22 |
| brousch1 | Plus he got free pizza and drinks at the meeting. Yours was going to be in bad shape after I ship it across the country | 17:23 |
| brousch1 | :D | 17:24 |
| greg-g | haha, sad | 17:25 |
| brousch1 | http://www.mhacks.org/ | 17:30 |
| greg-g | yeah, saw that, and I almost puked for the second time this week | 17:31 |
| brousch1 | hah | 17:31 |
| greg-g | seriously, disgusting | 17:31 |
| brousch1 | Energy drinks! | 17:32 |
| brousch1 | I don't understand the point or how hacks will be judged | 17:34 |
| greg-g | but, HACK! ATHON! ALL NIGHT! THE ZONE! FACEBOOK! BILLIONAIRE! | 17:35 |
| greg-g | that's why, because of stupidity | 17:35 |
| greg-g | sorry, I'll go back to playing cribbage with the rest of the old folks in this here home | 17:35 |
| brousch1 | But you're the one in San Francisco. All of this is your fault | 17:36 |
| * greg-g hangs head | 17:36 | |
| greg-g | I'm sorry, guys. I didn't mean it. It just, kind of happened. No one really saw it coming until it was too late. | 17:37 |
| snap-l | I hope they have the purell-a-thon, or they'll really have a hack-athon. | 17:38 |
| greg-g | har har har | 17:38 |
| greg-g | ;) | 17:38 |
| brousch1 | We just had Startup Weekend in GR. It is similar, though more structured. I'm too old to do anything but sleep for 36 hours | 17:38 |
| snap-l | I'm all for shoving developers in a closet somewhere with bandwidth, pizza and beer, but it feels like cheap labor. | 17:40 |
| greg-g | it's worse than that | 17:40 |
| snap-l | greg-g: elaborate, pls? | 17:41 |
| greg-g | it perpetuates this stupid effing (sorry, if you want me to elaborate on that part, you might get more swear words) culture. | 17:41 |
| snap-l | We only allow University students to participate; that includes undergradutes and graduates of 2-4 year institutions. | 17:42 |
| greg-g | makes it seem all grandiose | 17:42 |
| * jrwren rages against python | 17:42 | |
| snap-l | greg-g: That developing is all about adrenaline-fueled rushes? | 17:42 |
| greg-g | and that "developing" == "startup" | 17:43 |
| snap-l | greg-g: Ah, but I think it's a good thing, to a point | 17:44 |
| greg-g | how so? | 17:44 |
| snap-l | Sure, there's a lot of folks who think their dippy little idea is going to make them a boat-ton of money | 17:44 |
| snap-l | but if it weren't for people trying to push the ball a little further, we might not have Facebook / Google / all of those sposnoring companies. | 17:45 |
| snap-l | And something tells me it's a job fair in disguise. | 17:45 |
| snap-l | What I don't like is the idea of companies looking for student workers who are naive, and prone to burn out trying to please their corporate masters. | 17:46 |
| greg-g | right, def a job fair type thing, I suppose | 17:46 |
| greg-g | yeah, that part is almost inherent in this culture out here, really | 17:46 |
| snap-l | It's akin to having a talent competition where you get all of these "Rock stars" together to have a battle of the bands | 17:47 |
| greg-g | hence google's free food, massages, laundry, school buses, etc | 17:47 |
| snap-l | every one of them think they'll make it | 17:47 |
| snap-l | and the industry is littered with the carcasses of those got ground up in the machinery. | 17:47 |
| greg-g | warning, personal rant that may offend and/or provoke: | 17:48 |
| greg-g | the epitome of capitalism | 17:48 |
| greg-g | </rant> | 17:48 |
| snap-l | Think about it: how much do you groan inside when someone says they're in a band | 17:48 |
| brousch1 | jrwren: What'd Python do to you now? Kicked your dog? | 17:49 |
| snap-l | Now how much do you groan when soemone says they're in a startup | 17:49 |
| brousch1 | I don't groan so much as put on a look of pity | 17:49 |
| greg-g | a ton more, becauase at least the people in bands really know they arne't going to make it big, and they aren't trying to suck the teet of a VC | 17:49 |
| greg-g | at least, every person who I knew who was in a band knew the odds of making it big and lived their life accordingly. Not so with startup exec wannabes | 17:50 |
| greg-g | of course, I'm soured of this culture here, I may be biased :) | 17:51 |
| snap-l | greg-g: I've known a few bands that thought by moving to LA they'd make it big | 17:53 |
| snap-l | It was a band I was in. | 17:53 |
| snap-l | And no, we did not move. I left the band after graduation, and it dissolved soon after. | 17:53 |
| * greg-g nods | 17:53 | |
| greg-g | I didn't mean to (maybe I did?) make it out to be black and white, but, lets say it is broad generalizations | 17:53 |
| greg-g | at least from my perspective | 17:54 |
| snap-l | And I'd argue there's more examples of bands not making it than bands making it | 17:54 |
| greg-g | (again, being here, inundated with it) | 17:54 |
| snap-l | Yeah, totally. | 17:54 |
| snap-l | Well, you also have people who want to ensure they never have to work in a corporate world | 17:54 |
| greg-g | I may have a diff perspective if I were in LA | 17:54 |
| greg-g | (the opposite, in fact, but I'd probably still dislike where I lived ;) ) | 17:55 |
| snap-l | And instead recreate it in their living room | 17:55 |
| jcastro | snap-l: did your stuff get sorted when you increased the inotify watches? | 18:10 |
| snap-l | jcastro: I haven't seen it since | 18:11 |
| snap-l | I accepted the answer on askubuntu | 18:12 |
| jrwren | brousch1: python just isn't what I want. its far from waht I would call good. in this case sort v. sorted. sort doesn't return a value. FUNCTIONS SHOULD RETURN VALUES FFS!!! | 18:12 |
| jcastro | snap-l: did you ask a question or use the one I linked you? | 18:13 |
| snap-l | jcastro: I asked a question | 18:16 |
| jcastro | link me up yo | 18:16 |
| jcastro | I can search for it, but I don't know your username | 18:16 |
| snap-l | http://askubuntu.com/questions/247461/cant-access-dropbox-folder-error-under-ubuntu-12-04 | 18:16 |
| snap-l | (You prevented someone from bolding Dropbox and 12.04) | 18:16 |
| snap-l | ^^ | 18:18 |
| snap-l | jcastro: ^^ | 18:18 |
| snap-l | jcastro: Up there ^^^ | 18:18 |
| snap-l | ;) | 18:18 |
| jcastro | got it | 18:19 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: I'm with you on this one. I always have to look up and work around list.sort() sorted() etc | 18:19 |
| jrwren | YAY! i don't suck! | 18:20 |
| jrwren | seriously, its good to know that rick_h_ thinks the same things are warts as me. | 18:20 |
| rick_h_ | "every language has warts. If you don't think so you don't know it well enough" | 18:20 |
| rick_h_ | or something like that | 18:20 |
| snap-l | tx | 18:21 |
| snap-l | Yeah, sort and shuffle are always fun ones | 18:21 |
| brousch1 | s/language/thing/ | 18:21 |
| * greg-g nods | 18:21 | |
| rick_h_ | http://r.bmark.us/u/0b17059e03ec04 s3 compitition ftw | 18:24 |
| brousch1 | I had a beta invite for that and never got around to trying it :( | 18:25 |
| snap-l | I wouldn't call it a wart, more of a convention that isn't apparent | 18:25 |
| snap-l | It's nice to not have to burn through temp lists to sort or shuffle a list. | 18:25 |
| snap-l | but it isn't apparent when you do sorted_list = unsorted.sort() | 18:26 |
| rick_h_ | yea, I mean evertually you figured out sorted or instance.sort but it's still a wart | 18:26 |
| rick_h_ | especially when you consider len() :P | 18:27 |
| snap-l | https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DQOTAA/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=decafbadnet-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B003DQOTAA&adid=1MX8EB40MRQ2PK9X98XE& | 18:28 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: yeah | 18:28 |
| snap-l | Picked up some of those environmental sound as mp3s for pretty cheap. | 18:28 |
| snap-l | Ocean Waves, Thunderstorm by the Sea, and Thundering Rainstorm. | 18:29 |
| snap-l | I'd like to know how HP can take a $6,400 laptop and still make it look cheap. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/hands-on-with-6400-of-workstation-class-laptop/ | 20:30 |
| brousch1 | greg-g: Congrats | 21:23 |
| greg-g | whoa, you already saw that! I just posted! :) | 21:24 |
| greg-g | brousch1: thanks :) | 21:25 |
| brousch1 | GReader is right on it | 21:26 |
| brousch1 | Oh wait, it came via email | 21:26 |
| rick_h_ | greg-g: interesting, look forward to chatting release processes and such | 21:26 |
| greg-g | rick_h_: yep, would love to get your thoughts, I'm going to be stealing from, I mean, borrowing the good ideas from Canonical ;) | 21:27 |
| snap-l | greg-g: Nuts, now who will I talk CC 4.0 with? :) | 21:27 |
| brousch1 | When will you covert them to Python? | 21:27 |
| greg-g | :) | 21:27 |
| snap-l | greg-g: Congratulations! | 21:27 |
| snap-l | greg-g: Still in the bay area? | 21:27 |
| rick_h_ | coming back to MI! :P | 21:28 |
| greg-g | yep, WMF is in downtown (SOMA area) | 21:28 |
| snap-l | greg-g: Nuts and awesome. | 21:28 |
| greg-g | 20 min bike ride versus 1 hour bike+caltrain | 21:28 |
| snap-l | greg-g: Hm, so near soma.fm? :) | 21:29 |
| greg-g | indeed, if they actually have an office that is ;) | 21:29 |
| greg-g | I always imagined Somafm being distributed | 21:30 |
| snap-l | Yeah, I don't know if they do or not. | 21:30 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.7 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!