[00:45] wheee [00:51] Evening [00:51] party [12:05] morning and all that jazz [12:20] Sick kid again today [12:22] :( [12:51] brousch: Hope he feels better soon. [12:51] Sick kid === no fun [12:52] * rick_h_ feels sick...just added MongoDB to vim dict [12:53] rick_h_: all are welcome. [13:04] grrrr...stupid people that can't set up a installable python package correctly... [14:43] Are we having fun yet? [14:43] not really [14:44] is it friday yet [14:44] Not yet. [14:46] Though we're gettig closer. [14:52] I am. [14:52] I think I know btter than pylint :p [14:52] hah [14:52] just got through linting through a stupid library I had to fork because it's .tar.gz was uninstallable [14:53] what is pylint telling you? The only one I think is the multiple imports around a try/except [14:54] pylint rule C0103 is stupid IMO. attr names (should match [a-z_][a-z0-9_]{2,30}$) [14:54] feels wrong. [14:54] {2,} is more like it [14:54] oh man, what attr name are you using? [14:55] _update_trafic_trends_from_values_ [14:55] and even that I don't like [14:55] ends with _? and from_values I find is normally just wasted verbage :/ [14:55] I'd rather it be update_traffic_trends_from_MORE_DESCRIPTION_values [14:56] update_traffic_trends(values=None, another_source=None): dispatch from here [14:56] imo :) [14:56] yeah, i considered that. [14:56] then I also consider someone with a shite editor who doesn't see the doc or even args. [14:56] I miss types. [14:56] shush! [14:57] trailing _ is throw back from C. I should stop that habbit. [14:57] i guess it is not pythonic [14:57] if they miss that then shove it. If they can't see the code or the docs then fubar [14:57] what is it supposed to mean? Can't recall ever seeing that [14:57] the underscaore that is [14:57] signifies private, like in python [14:57] that's what the _ is for [14:57] but in C, all functions starting with _ are reserved [14:57] to start with [14:57] ah [14:57] can't do that in C [14:58] most compilers accept it, but it is technically out of spec. [14:58] yea, the _update_traffic_trends already means private. And if it's private why bothering about docs/editors? [14:58] that is the OTHER thing. [14:58] lol [14:58] C0111 pylint wants docstring on private [14:58] I'm like WTF [14:59] the bother is to convey intent to the next maintainer [14:59] sure, why not? You wrote it, you should doc it when you come back to your code. [14:59] right [14:59] this is NOT simple code at all, it gets head twisting [14:59] all the more reason for docstrings [14:59] oh, so you are syaing yes to docstrings on the private [14:59] yes [14:59] cool. I usually do anyway :) [14:59] ok cool [15:00] people don't doc their code enough for my tastes. Drives me nuts [15:01] got handed this to review the other day and drove me nuts that there's not a single comment about expected structure of the data, why it's formatted in the way it is, etc http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~juju-jitsu/charmworld/trunk/view/head:/charmworld/jobs/cstat.py [15:01] wanted to just return 'will-no-review-no-docs' [15:27] and THAT is another reason I like static types. [15:27] and I don't just mean static langs, but static types. [15:28] if you are using all dicts for structure in a static lang, its no different than a dynamic lang for opaque data structure [15:28] but when you define your own type heirarchy and use hte type system, its oh so discoverable [15:30] right, well this is a mess because of mongodb everything's a dict pita [15:30] we could implement our own model/type later on top but our TA has shot that down as unnecessary overhead :( [15:31] your TA is a fool. [15:31] :p [15:31] hah! we can drink to that [15:31] you should gift him a copy of Domain Driven Development and expense i. [15:32] many gifts I could grant...some of them with spinny little sharp ends [15:32] but anyway, sorry you and pylint disagree today [15:33] its ok, i took your advice. [15:34] if i've learned anything in the past year its that i'm terrible at python [15:34] it should have been...there's always someone worse and usually paid more than you :P [15:35] oh sure, I can make it do anything I want to, but its rarely pythonic when I do it. I usually think functional and then have to rethink to get it into python [15:35] hmm, not sure why functional should throw it off [15:35] i find functional programming in python to be particularly challenging [15:36] i think because I'm used to C#,F#,ocaml style of functional [15:36] list comprehensions are almost anti-functional IMO [15:36] I know it isn't true [15:36] ah ok. I mean you might need to grab some stdlib help but normally functional works ok [15:36] but yea, it's a broad idea I guess [15:37] it is a different functional thought process than I'm used to [15:38] finding hte writing itertools funciton or deciding it doesn't exist... [15:57] Honestly I find my biggest problem in Python is not making classes soon enough [15:58] instead you get all of this sorta-related-data floating around inside of a file [16:16] rick_h_: Are you using Ming? http://merciless.sourceforge.net/tour.html [16:16] brousch1: no, we're anti well defined schema atm...more overhead [16:17] speed freaks [16:18] i have opposite problem with classes too soon. [16:18] lots of behavior, no data [16:18] every function call is sacred, every function call si great... [16:18] should have been module level functions [16:19] but i'm used to langs without module level functions where this is norm [16:20] The module is a class [16:21] heh, without any instance separation [16:21] on NO! it's a global! everyone run! [16:21] One instance should be enough for anyone [16:24] the module is a class? [16:25] no, its an instance of module [16:25] jrwren: he's being sarcastic. from app import models. models.function() [16:25] oh, LOLz [17:11] greg-g: You feeling better? We found another lawyer to fill in last night. The talks went very well. [17:18] brousch1: yeah, got to feeling better around 4pm my time, after a lot of time out in the sun. Glad it worked out OK! [17:19] he had a talk partially prepared for a local conference in a month on a similar topic, so it worked very well [17:22] awesome [17:23] Plus he got free pizza and drinks at the meeting. Yours was going to be in bad shape after I ship it across the country [17:24] :D [17:25] haha, sad [17:30] http://www.mhacks.org/ [17:31] yeah, saw that, and I almost puked for the second time this week [17:31] hah [17:31] seriously, disgusting [17:32] Energy drinks! [17:34] I don't understand the point or how hacks will be judged [17:35] but, HACK! ATHON! ALL NIGHT! THE ZONE! FACEBOOK! BILLIONAIRE! [17:35] that's why, because of stupidity [17:35] sorry, I'll go back to playing cribbage with the rest of the old folks in this here home [17:36] But you're the one in San Francisco. All of this is your fault [17:36] * greg-g hangs head [17:37] I'm sorry, guys. I didn't mean it. It just, kind of happened. No one really saw it coming until it was too late. [17:38] I hope they have the purell-a-thon, or they'll really have a hack-athon. [17:38] har har har [17:38] ;) [17:38] We just had Startup Weekend in GR. It is similar, though more structured. I'm too old to do anything but sleep for 36 hours [17:40] I'm all for shoving developers in a closet somewhere with bandwidth, pizza and beer, but it feels like cheap labor. [17:40] it's worse than that [17:41] greg-g: elaborate, pls? [17:41] it perpetuates this stupid effing (sorry, if you want me to elaborate on that part, you might get more swear words) culture. [17:42] We only allow University students to participate; that includes undergradutes and graduates of 2-4 year institutions. [17:42] makes it seem all grandiose [17:42] * jrwren rages against python [17:42] greg-g: That developing is all about adrenaline-fueled rushes? [17:43] and that "developing" == "startup" [17:44] greg-g: Ah, but I think it's a good thing, to a point [17:44] how so? [17:44] Sure, there's a lot of folks who think their dippy little idea is going to make them a boat-ton of money [17:45] but if it weren't for people trying to push the ball a little further, we might not have Facebook / Google / all of those sposnoring companies. [17:45] And something tells me it's a job fair in disguise. [17:46] What I don't like is the idea of companies looking for student workers who are naive, and prone to burn out trying to please their corporate masters. [17:46] right, def a job fair type thing, I suppose [17:46] yeah, that part is almost inherent in this culture out here, really [17:47] It's akin to having a talent competition where you get all of these "Rock stars" together to have a battle of the bands [17:47] hence google's free food, massages, laundry, school buses, etc [17:47] every one of them think they'll make it [17:47] and the industry is littered with the carcasses of those got ground up in the machinery. [17:48] warning, personal rant that may offend and/or provoke: [17:48] the epitome of capitalism [17:48] [17:48] Think about it: how much do you groan inside when someone says they're in a band [17:49] jrwren: What'd Python do to you now? Kicked your dog? [17:49] Now how much do you groan when soemone says they're in a startup [17:49] I don't groan so much as put on a look of pity [17:49] a ton more, becauase at least the people in bands really know they arne't going to make it big, and they aren't trying to suck the teet of a VC [17:50] at least, every person who I knew who was in a band knew the odds of making it big and lived their life accordingly. Not so with startup exec wannabes [17:51] of course, I'm soured of this culture here, I may be biased :) [17:53] greg-g: I've known a few bands that thought by moving to LA they'd make it big [17:53] It was a band I was in. [17:53] And no, we did not move. I left the band after graduation, and it dissolved soon after. [17:53] * greg-g nods [17:53] I didn't mean to (maybe I did?) make it out to be black and white, but, lets say it is broad generalizations [17:54] at least from my perspective [17:54] And I'd argue there's more examples of bands not making it than bands making it [17:54] (again, being here, inundated with it) [17:54] Yeah, totally. [17:54] Well, you also have people who want to ensure they never have to work in a corporate world [17:54] I may have a diff perspective if I were in LA [17:55] (the opposite, in fact, but I'd probably still dislike where I lived ;) ) [17:55] And instead recreate it in their living room [18:10] snap-l: did your stuff get sorted when you increased the inotify watches? [18:11] jcastro: I haven't seen it since [18:12] I accepted the answer on askubuntu [18:12] brousch1: python just isn't what I want. its far from waht I would call good. in this case sort v. sorted. sort doesn't return a value. FUNCTIONS SHOULD RETURN VALUES FFS!!! [18:13] snap-l: did you ask a question or use the one I linked you? [18:16] jcastro: I asked a question [18:16] link me up yo [18:16] I can search for it, but I don't know your username [18:16] http://askubuntu.com/questions/247461/cant-access-dropbox-folder-error-under-ubuntu-12-04 [18:16] (You prevented someone from bolding Dropbox and 12.04) [18:18] ^^ [18:18] jcastro: ^^ [18:18] jcastro: Up there ^^^ [18:18] ;) [18:19] got it [18:19] jrwren: I'm with you on this one. I always have to look up and work around list.sort() sorted() etc [18:20] YAY! i don't suck! [18:20] seriously, its good to know that rick_h_ thinks the same things are warts as me. [18:20] "every language has warts. If you don't think so you don't know it well enough" [18:20] or something like that [18:21] tx [18:21] Yeah, sort and shuffle are always fun ones [18:21] s/language/thing/ [18:21] * greg-g nods [18:24] http://r.bmark.us/u/0b17059e03ec04 s3 compitition ftw [18:25] I had a beta invite for that and never got around to trying it :( [18:25] I wouldn't call it a wart, more of a convention that isn't apparent [18:25] It's nice to not have to burn through temp lists to sort or shuffle a list. [18:26] but it isn't apparent when you do sorted_list = unsorted.sort() [18:26] yea, I mean evertually you figured out sorted or instance.sort but it's still a wart [18:27] especially when you consider len() :P [18:28] https://www.amazon.com/dp/B003DQOTAA/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=decafbadnet-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B003DQOTAA&adid=1MX8EB40MRQ2PK9X98XE& [18:28] rick_h_: yeah [18:28] Picked up some of those environmental sound as mp3s for pretty cheap. [18:29] Ocean Waves, Thunderstorm by the Sea, and Thundering Rainstorm. [20:30] I'd like to know how HP can take a $6,400 laptop and still make it look cheap. http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/01/hands-on-with-6400-of-workstation-class-laptop/ [21:23] greg-g: Congrats [21:24] whoa, you already saw that! I just posted! :) [21:25] brousch1: thanks :) [21:26] GReader is right on it [21:26] Oh wait, it came via email [21:26] greg-g: interesting, look forward to chatting release processes and such [21:27] rick_h_: yep, would love to get your thoughts, I'm going to be stealing from, I mean, borrowing the good ideas from Canonical ;) [21:27] greg-g: Nuts, now who will I talk CC 4.0 with? :) [21:27] When will you covert them to Python? [21:27] :) [21:27] greg-g: Congratulations! [21:27] greg-g: Still in the bay area? [21:28] coming back to MI! :P [21:28] yep, WMF is in downtown (SOMA area) [21:28] greg-g: Nuts and awesome. [21:28] 20 min bike ride versus 1 hour bike+caltrain [21:29] greg-g: Hm, so near soma.fm? :) [21:29] indeed, if they actually have an office that is ;) [21:30] I always imagined Somafm being distributed [21:30] Yeah, I don't know if they do or not.