thafreakI wouldn't buy an ubuntu phone UNLESS There was a terminal app/cli accesss...00:19
bbb_theres a firefox phone now too00:45
bbb_egads man00:45
Unit193thafreak: Didn't you have some old PPCs?00:45
paultagbbb_: that came out first :)00:45
paultagwe've had one at bocoup for about a year now00:45
bbb_yeah but still cmon00:45
thafreakUnit193: yes...I believe I still have some01:01
thafreakthey're like OLD and only g3's at best01:15
thafreakI do have a bad ass dual g5, but it's borked...does not stay running01:15
thafreakprobably a bad motherboard, or bad ram...or bad cpu...can't really tell01:15
skellatLess than an hour until the educational session.  Will anybody show up?  Will people just keep Slideshare open in a window next to their IRC window?  Nobody has downloaded the presentation according to the stats dashboard, alas, so I certainly hope multi-window is happening.02:07
gilbertskellat: i'm here to listen :)02:36
skellatgilbert: Alrighty.  The slides supplement rather than supplant so I'll have some things to say at 10 PM.  Besides, Castle & Hawaii Five-0 are re-runs tonight.02:37
gilbertwhat up everybody :)02:37
* Cheri703 is sort of here, am working on some other stuff02:52
* drkokandy is here and has the slides open02:54
* drkokandy may also have a cocktail02:54
gilbertdrkokandy: what's your poison?02:54
drkokandygilbert: I only had enough to make a manhattan02:55
drkokandyneed to restock02:55
gilbertmanhattans are rough02:55
drkokandyI like them02:56
drkokandybut I'm not very picky when it's been a long day :-)02:57
gilbertisn't it like 3 whiskeys and a little water?02:57
drkokandyI make them with 1 part vermouth and 3 parts whiskey02:58
drkokandythere's also supposed to be bitters and a cherry, but I'm out of those02:58
gilbertright, vermouth02:58
gilbertway too much alcohol in one small glass for my tastes :(02:59
drkokandyworks for me :-)03:00
skellatNTP reports 10 PM, we can begin03:00
skellatGood evening and welcome to Educational Session 2013-1: "The Joy of BeagleBoard"03:00
skellatMy name is Stephen Michael Kellat.  I am an Ubuntu Member and the podcast presenter for the Ohio Local Community Team.  I will be leading tonight's session.03:00
skellatThe slides for tonight's session are available at http://www.slideshare.net/alpacaherder/ubuntu-ohio-educationalsession201301 and if you do not already have them open your are advised to do so now.03:00
gilbertspeedy :)03:00
skellatOn the second slide there are some basic ground rules for tonight's session.  The key ones to remember are: Please follow along with the presentation in IRC as there will be requests to switch to different pages of the slide deck03:00
skellatFollowed by: As we go along, please hold your questions until the end03:01
skellatAnd then by: If a question cannot be answered immediately, it may be “parked” to be addressed directly via e-mail at a later time after the session.03:01
skellatAnd with that, lets flip to the third slide and begin...03:01
* gilbert already broke the rules ;)03:01
* skellat is okay with that03:01
skellatAnd now to type without having prepared text strings03:01
skellatA couple years ago I started off getting a BeagleBoard03:01
skellatPreviously I used a PowerPC to good effect03:02
skellatAs happens with most hardware I have, it most certainly it is not the latest or greatest.  If anything, it is often a hand-me-down.03:02
skellatAt the time I picked up a BeagleBoard, ARM was the new thing in the Ubuntu realm.03:02
skellatAs you can see from the slide, the board is pretty small.03:02
skellatNormally folks build "dog houses" for the BeagleBoard but I have chosen for too long to just let the board remain exposed to open air.  If anything that allows me to most easily see the message lights.  It also prevents my cat from attacking it.03:03
skellatThe BeagleBoard-xM is the latest full-featured version that comes with a validation image of Angstrom Linux03:03
skellatIt boots great03:03
skellatBut this is an Ubuntu-related IRC channel03:04
skellatThat's where the adventure begins03:04
skellatTo properly set up to use the board as a desktop, you have to get an external power supply.  While the board can run from a MicroUSB connection the amperage that gives just isn't enough to also support peripherals.03:04
skellatYou get four USB ports and an Ethernet jack soldered directly to the board03:05
skellatFor ease of access, decent hubs are recommended so you do not have to handle the board too much directly03:05
skellatIn my case, I previously had a working smart phone and other devices with Bluetooth capability so I have a Bluetooth dongle on my BeagleBoard for simple Personal Area Networking to move files03:06
skellatI also have a gamer on my LAN who loves World of Warcraft and heaven forfend if I interrupt her gameplay with moving files :-)03:06
skellatLets move on to the next page of slides03:06
skellatOkay, there are three key points to the BeagleBoard03:06
skellatIt is an ARM device.  Conventional x86 binaries do not play well here.  Coding of programs has to be careful as playing for x86 may make your program Fail To Build From Source (FTBFS).  For a while Firefox repeatedly went FTBFS as it was too dependent upon x86 specifics in its code.03:08
skellatThe BeagleBoard is also a low power device.  As for my in-house gamer, I know the bill from FirstEnergy Ohio will easily have one kilowatt-hour of usage from that conventional x86 box running for just under 2.5 hours.  To get a kilowatt-hour usage out of the BeagleBoard, it takes many more hours of use.03:09
skellatThe BeagleBoard is also a very cranky device.  Since the board is built around a System On A Chip you have interesting issues that erupt that you do not see in the conventional x86 realm.03:09
gilbertsorry for the question, but about how many hours to use up a killowatt of usage?03:10
skellatAlrighty, since we needed to pause for a second...I'll note that I've seen the board pegged at 7 W/hr exclusive of its display which is a conventional television.  As a headless device it would take a couple days.  With the display active, that would come to about a day by rough estimate depending upon display used.03:11
gilbertcool, i'll not interrupt anymore :)03:12
skellatIt's all good.  We needed to pause.  Lets advance to the next slide.03:12
skellatAs you see in this slide, that's my BeagleBoard.  That's also the top portion of my keyboard.  The BeagleBoard really is not that big.  The main storage is a MicroSDHC card.03:13
skellatSince storage is a MicroSDHC card and that that is the boot device, that cannot go beyond 32 gigabytes since going past that takes you into the somewhat incompatible SDXC standard.03:13
skellatNow, I initially tried to use the Canonical provided preloaded images to bring my board up.  You can find documentation about this at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/OMAP though sadly it hasn't been updated since 12.04.03:14
skellatThe ARM development efforts have had a knock-on effect for the Ubuntu Phone effort.03:14
skellatAs I learned to my horror, the image worked perfectly on the third try.  Once it finally booted to a mainline Ubuntu screen...it didn't recognize any input from the USB hub.03:15
skellatThat's right, it booted to Unity but you couldn't use the mouse or keyboard and there was no other way to access the system!03:15
skellatIn the end, I turned to some interesting directions here to create a netinstall situation using debian-installer that allowed me to load Xubuntu on the board: http://www.elinux.org/BeagleBoardUbuntu#Canonical.2FUbuntu_Images03:16
skellatCustom firmware does have to be downloaded but in the end it comes from somebody who's passed trust by the overall BeagleBoard project so I've been able to trust it...as well as do a dist-upgrade to totally replace said custom firmware on my own03:17
skellatI don't grok KDE so I haven't tried Kubuntu and the last attempt at installing Lubuntu failed.  Xubuntu via netinstall has worked on the board well.03:17
skellatA key issue that erupts is that the repositories do NOT match for i386 and armhf03:17
skellatSometimes packages just are not built03:17
skellatAnother big thing is that if you are dependent on something from a PPA...you had better be ready to build it locally yourself.  The PPA infrastructure does NOT build by default for armhf.03:18
skellatFor the most part, the packages I need are available.  I use a metapackage created with ubuntu-defaults-builder to let me keep such in sync between the x86 netbook from System76 I'm sitting at right now and the BeagleBoard.03:19
skellatOutside all that, the board operates as a conventional wired desktop on armhf.03:19
skellatAnd lets flip to the next slide03:19
skellatThere you can see the top of my Singer Sewing Computer Table with the keyboard, TV/Monitor, mouse, and the little BeagleBoard gets somewhat lost in the picture compared to everything else03:20
skellatNow lets flip to the next slide03:20
skellatThe BeagleBoard is a cranky device03:20
skellatIt is not a set it and forget it device for me03:21
skellatThe first thing you have to remember is that it is a System On A Chip.  You cannot upgrade the video, the processor, or the memory.  That's all built-in.  On occasion a program may act like a fork-bomb (Firefox being a big offender) and will drag the system to a crawl.03:21
skellatMidori is often recommended as a more appropriate browser to use although I also have lynx & w3m installed03:22
skellatThere are only 512 megabytes of memory.  You cannot breach that wall.  Games, even if they are successfully compiled and in the repos for armhf, may butt up against that.03:22
skellatSteam for Linux does not exist for armhf, alas03:23
gilbertnot surprising...03:23
skellatUnity does not play well at all on armhf to the point that Ubuntu Phone wound up having to adopt an entirely separate toolkit to be able to function on all those ARM-based smartphones out there03:23
gilbertquite an esoteric platforms for high-end games...03:24
skellatCore dumps do happen but in the event of too many downloads happening at once, on occasion the network controller will just decide to quit.  I had that happen a couple nights a couple when I set up a couple at jobs using aria2c as my Bittorrent client to download ISOs of other distributions.03:25
skellatThe USB hub can also pull that trick too.  I've never figured out why as I haven't had a serial console available to slap onto the board to try to get a trace.03:25
skellatThe other big problem in the end is that the BeagleBoard lacks a Real Time Clock.  The BeagleBoard is meant to be networked rather than standalone isolated.  NTP keeps the clock working right on my board.  I have tried to run the BeagleBoard isolated and the clock can drift to the point of my seriously considering ways of constructing an external timebase receiver.03:26
skellatAlrighty, lets move ahead to the next slide.03:26
skellatTo wrap up, the BeagleBoard is a bit of an adventure.  If you want comfortable computing...03:27
skellat...stick to x86.03:27
skellatIf you want an adventure where things will break and you will be on the bleeding edge of software, the BeagleBoard is a new horizon.03:27
skellatAll the major languages work on it and all the compilers are available.03:27
skellatIf you want to work hard to ensure your code is truly portable, the BeagleBoard is a great platform for that.03:28
skellatFor using the Internet outside Flash-based gaming and Steam-based gaming, it is a great little board that works well that runs LibreOffice nicely.03:28
skellatDebian also supports the BeagleBoard and Arch is increasing its support.  Fedora right now only supports it in headless server mode so you'll need a serial console for that.03:29
skellatWith all that being said, what questions do we have tonight?03:29
drkokandywhat do you use it for?03:29
gilbertso there's 512MiB ram, is there flash memory for hard disk?03:29
skellatdrkokandy: I use it as a server currently since my SheevaPlug is dead.  The crontab is pretty big and it is busy throughout the day.  It also lets me check the news first thing in the morning and peek at my e-mail after I get up without booting up my netbook.03:30
skellatgilbert: On one of my hubs there are typically multiple USB sticks plugged in03:30
skellatgilbert: I also have yet to run out of space on the 32 gigabyte MicroSDHC card03:31
skellatdrkokandy: I use the command line tool gpo that comes with gpodder to automate podcast downloads throughout the day with a little bash scripting of my own that pops off every couple hours03:31
Unit193I'd guess you haven't tried xombrero as an alternate browser? http://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=xxxterm indicates it at least used to build on armhf.03:31
drkokandyLove gpo, I use that on my server too03:32
skellatUnit193: Not yet.  It is packaged in precise so it looks like I might not need to attempt a repack to make it usable.03:33
gilbertso, is the microsd reader built-in?03:33
skellatGilbert: Yep, that is an integral part of the board.03:33
gilbertany reason you've been looking at the beagleboard vs. the raspberry pi?03:34
skellatGilbert: See also: http://beagleboard.org/hardware-xm03:34
drkokandyor this ODROID thing with an Exynos processor?03:34
skellatGilbert: Ubuntu supports the BeagleBoard but does not support the Raspberry Pi as our project overall supports ARMv7 instruction set and later while the Raspberry Pi uses ARMv6.  Debian can support such under armel instead.03:35
skellatdrkokandy: I haven't seen much concrete documentation on the ODROID within the Ubuntu realm. Arch has a ton of documentation on utilizing it, though.03:36
drkokandyoh, I remember that from the forums. they talked about how much work it would take to make ubuntu run on v603:36
drkokandymaybe this is a novice question, but what the ODROID people claim to have running on it is Linaro Ubuntu... what is that03:36
skellatdrkokandy: That'll take a moment to answer03:37
skellatdrkokandy: Linaro releases monthly builds of Android and Ubuntu03:37
gilbertskellat: have you considered loading debian, since armhf is a first-class architecture?03:37
skellatdrkokandy: Linaro Ubuntu is one of their special monthly builds which are designated by Year dot Month03:38
skellatgilbert: I've considered it.  I'll be definitely considering such once Wheezy goes golden.03:38
gilbertskellat: and would be perhaps less troublesome than ubuntu where non-x86 archs are an afterthought?03:38
gilbertskellat: well its in such a deep freeze at this point, what you see now pretty much is the release03:39
skellatgilbert: The thing is that Ubuntu Phone is the coming big shift.  I think Canonical in this respect is on the the right track except for not building the bloody phones themselves.03:39
gilberti think that's smart.  hardware is a tought market for non-hardware makers, just look at how google avoids hardware03:40
skellatgilbert: With the overall declines of PC sales from all manufacturers and the continued rise and growth on smartphones into phablets and other transitional devices...we may not need to wait for the Year of Linux on the Desktop.  We've already got the Years of Linux on the Device and as the Device displaces the Desktop we need to see Ubuntu there.03:41
skellatBesides, running everything on your phone in Java still freaks me out.  iOS at least uses Objective C while Ubuntu Phone will have a Terminal on it and allow more conventional languages hopefully.03:41
drkokandyand even when Google "sponsors" hardware like the Nexus line, they have a terrible time with the ordering/inventory/selling of the devices03:41
skellatdrkokandy: Yep.  If Canonical came out with their own Ubuntu Phone built in Britain, though, I would seriously consider buying it.03:42
drkokandythat's a good point about Linux on the device03:42
drkokandyme too, maybe... GSM carriers are terrible around Ashland though03:43
gilbertwell, windows on the device has been pretty much proven doa - exhibits: zune, windows phone03:43
Unit193drkokandy: What I got linked to was one that worked with Ubuntu 12.10.03:43
skellatgilbert: Indeed.  That's the big thing that worries me with Ubuntu Phone and why I paid special attention in Burning Circle to Full Circle Magazine #69...making an aftermarket operating system for Android Phones doesn't seem like a good idea.  I want a cool device built by cool people within the Ubuntu realm that can rock the world.03:44
drkokandyone what, Unit193? ODROID?03:44
Unit193http://www.hardkernel.com/renewal_2011/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135341370451 appears to, at least.03:45
drkokandyah, cool - thanks Unit193!03:45
skellatI've technically made my BeagleBoard into a phone when I've installed gammu & wammu while also hooking up a Huawei data modem for SMS traffic03:45
skellatBut alas03:46
skellatThere are a few x86 based phones out there but the vast majority are ARM based03:46
skellatOkay, what other questions are percolating out there?03:46
drkokandyskellat - how much trouble do you think a newcomer to Ubuntu (1.5 years) would have with getting/keeping a Beagleboard or similar device up and running?03:47
skellatdrkokandy: Definitely need some hand holding as well as dogged determination to make it work03:47
gilberthow much does the board cost (including necessary add-ons like a mircosd card)?03:48
skellatThe board is $148.  I picked mine up through Mouser Electronics in Texas.  The remainder of parts I got on sale at RadioShack.03:48
skellatIf you time the sale right and have a spare small TV with HDMI, you may be able to get away with $250 at a minimum.03:49
gilbertis the only display output hdmi?03:49
skellatNo, it isn't.  S-Video is available BUT it is not very well supported.  It is best to stick with HDMI as that is well supported.03:50
* gilbert is not an hdmi fan :(03:50
skellatThere are some conversion boxes floating around on Amazon to turn HDMI into VGA that look reasonably priced but I've not had one in-hand to play with yet.03:50
gilbertdoes 4 usb ports seem limited (give you're already tying 2 up with keyboard/mouse)?03:51
skellatgilbert: No, not really.  It is best to use hubs in lieu of just the 4 ports as you can feel worry about possibly denting something if you try to fit something directly into a port.  I've got two hubs hooked up and only the Bluetooth dongle is directly in a port as it isn't going anywhere.03:52
gilbertskellat: have you ever looked at gumstix?03:53
skellatgilbert: Yep.  Currently don't have the money to buy, though.  My dream is to have a small cluster of little ARM System on Chip boards running something like Predict tracking satellites since I am a ham radio operator and all.03:54
skellatCanonical uses a bunch of PandaBoards as their build farm for arm packages, for example03:55
skellatAre there any other questions?03:56
skellatGoing once03:57
drkokandybesides the site you mentioned, have you found any good resources for Ubuntu on ARM?03:57
gilbertnot from me, great presentation skellat :)03:57
drkokandyyes, this was great!03:57
skellatdrkokandy: The IRC channel is the big one.  That and reading every bloody man page you can.03:57
skellatGoing twice03:57
drkokandyI'm good :-)03:58
skellatAnd with that, we wrap up Educational Session 2013-1.  I thank all attendees for this participation tonight.  A transcript of tonight's session will be posted to the Ubuntu Wiki Infrastructure with slides interleaved on Tuesday at some point I have yet to determine.03:58
* drkokandy claps03:59
Unit193Pogoplug is dead, or went with crappy hardware, right?03:59
Unit193skellat: Danke.03:59
gilbertso, just to clarify on power usage, you saw about 1 kW/day vs 1 kW/2.5hrs for a normal pc?04:00
skellatgilbert: Roughly.  Depends upon how much the monitor is being used.  I know when I threw the monitor and board on my emergency power 90W alternator brick I could keep them going for at least an hour so the two combined are under that per hour.04:01
skellatWith all these new graphics cards demanding 450 W power supplies it really cranks over the power usage.  The last FirstEnergy power bill was not cool as it showed a tripling of usage month on month from November to December so I've been having to reduce power drain where I can.04:02
* skellat wanders off04:07
=== jrgifford changed the topic of #ubuntu-us-oh to: #ubuntu-us-oh Welcome to Ubuntu Ohio! | Join us at https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-us-ohio | Learn more about us at <http://ohio.ubuntu-us.org/> |
Cheri703thanks jrgifford16:25
skellatAnd the transcript of last night's educational session with slides interleaved can be found here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/OhioTeam/IRC2013012819:31
jrgiffordoh, my pleasure Cheri70320:38

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