[06:57] <solarcloud> Morning .. had a dream, but I've forgotten it, damn !
[08:42] <dwatkins> I had a dream, and then I woke up.
[09:44] <popey> http://mailman.lug.org.uk/pipermail/gllug/2013-January/080625.html
[09:44] <popey> anyone going to that tonight?
[09:56] <JamesTait> Morning all! :-)
[09:56] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:16] <dwatkins> ello ello
[10:27] <bigcalm> aHOY
[10:27] <bigcalm> Ahoy
[10:27] <brobostigon> morning JamesTait , dwatkins and bigcalm
[10:27] <JamesTait> brobostigon, o/
[10:27] <bigcalm> Getting surprised in Half-Life and my fingers flail about. Looks like caps-lock was a casualty this time
[10:28] <bigcalm> Hi kids :)
[10:28] <JamesTait> BigRedS, did you get a chance to play with masqmail last night?
[10:46] <davmor2> Morning all
[10:47] <Laney> it's so annoying that the bathroom light kills my DAB radio :(
[10:50] <bigcalm> Laney: Using a laptop wifi in the vicinity of our DAB radio kills it
[10:51] <bigcalm> Hi davmor2
[10:52] <davmor2> bigcalm: how is your building of the Millennium Falcon coming along
[10:53] <bigcalm> davmor2: trying my best not to do it all in 1 day. It's been 1 set of packets per day so far
[10:54] <davmor2> bigcalm: so you'll finish Friday then if you started Monday
[10:55] <bigcalm> davmor2: Started Tuesday evening (that was when Hayley's brother surprised me with it as a gift)
[10:56] <bigcalm> davmor2: and as we're off to my parents in Worcester tomorrow until Sunday... Might get a few more days out of it yet :D
[10:57] <davmor2> bigcalm: Yeah Sue did the same to me just after Christmas there was a Knock at the door and a Huge Box from Denmark
[10:57] <davmor2> bigcalm: turns out it was to justify the mixer she just bought :D
[10:59] <bigcalm> davmor2: Hayley got me the X-wing for xmas. When her brother saw it, he instantly got hooked on building them. I think that he's just ordered the Super Star Destroyer
[10:59] <bigcalm> davmor2: haha
[11:01] <bigcalm> http://shop.lego.com/en-GB/Super-Star-Destroyer-10221
[11:02] <popey> golly
[11:03] <davmor2> bigcalm: hang on a minute your future brother in law paid £150 for a lego box set for you?  He ordered it from 2 places and thought he had cancelled one didn't he ;)
[11:04] <bigcalm> popey: indeedie
[11:04] <davmor2> bigcalm: did you see the uber deluxe version of the Millennium Falcon?
[11:04] <bigcalm> davmor2: heh. He said that he gave Hayley £120, so I'm guessing that he found it cheaper
[11:05] <bigcalm> davmor2: I've been trying to not look at lego kits yet. I can see a lot of money being thrown at them
[11:05] <davmor2> bigcalm: the little globe ones are fun
[11:06] <davmor2> bigcalm: no that is about right to be fair 150 was a round up as a figure
[11:06] <bigcalm> Ah
[11:08] <davmor2> bigcalm: http://lego.wikia.com/wiki/10179_Ultimate_Collector%27s_Millennium_Falcon
[11:09] <davmor2> 311 pages to build it 5000 pieces that would keep you going for a couple of weeks
[11:10] <davmor2> popey: ^ you know you want it too
[11:11] <popey> shush
[11:12] <davmor2> popey: I'll take that as a yes then :)
[11:12] <bigcalm> I've just moved my python photo booth project from my private gitlab to be on github. If anybody wants to help :) https://github.com/bigcalm/python_photo_booth
[11:20] <bigcalm> Scribbles: https://github.com/bigcalm/python_photo_booth/wiki/Scribbles
[11:24] <ali1234> is that for like a real photobooth then?
[11:24] <ali1234> like you get in a train station
[11:24] <ali1234> if so why aren't you writing it in QML?
[11:24] <ali1234> it's ideal for touch interface
[11:26]  * bigcalm goes to play with Lego
[11:30] <Laney> i hope that guy has put his whale vomit in a safe place
[11:34] <czajkowski> aloha
[11:36] <popey> http://sourceware.org/ml/glibc-cvs/2013-q1/msg00115.html
[11:37] <popey> uh, no
[11:38] <ali1234> lolwat popey
[11:39] <popey> good isnt it
[11:40] <ali1234> why do people write stupid #defines like that anyway?
[11:40] <ali1234> it just encourages bugs and makes the source harder to read
[11:41] <ali1234> still at least it only has to be fixed in one place
[11:43] <ali1234> here is the unmangled URL of the commit if anyone cares: http://www.sourceware.org/git/gitweb.cgi?p=glibc.git&a=commitdiff&h=dd930cc57100377d02a45b9113d6a3dc93136cbc
[11:44] <ali1234> that constant seems used in only one place
[12:09] <AlanBell> that is rather special
[12:11] <AlanBell> good job it isn't in anything important. Oh, wait
[12:16] <davmor2> czajkowski: morning prod
[13:09] <Laney> om nom found a packet of sensations at the back of the cupboard
[13:47] <dwatkins> I hope they havn't passed their best-before date, Laney ;)
[13:47] <Laney> they have actually
[13:47] <Laney> 19-01-13
[13:47] <Laney> still DELICIOUS
[13:52] <dwatkins> I'm sure that's just a guideline, anyway.
[13:53]  * Laney drops dead
[15:11] <solarcloud> Today on my Lubuntu netbook ans wireless headphones I discovered BBC Radio 4 and the myriad of programmes that are on the website. It all seems a bit Posh or Upper Middle Class to me, but I like it in my ear ..
[15:20] <BigRedS> radio4 is awesome
[15:20] <BigRedS> but, yeah, if you're youngetr than about 40 finding other listeners is a bit like being a member of a secret resistance movement
[15:21] <solarcloud> I am a member of OSIN.
[15:21] <BigRedS> you can't straight up ask somebody, 'cause if they're not aware of the goodness they'll think you're a bit weird
[15:21] <BigRedS> OSIN?
[15:21] <solarcloud> Open Source Intelligence Network by RDS.
[15:25] <KrimZon_2> when I started dual booting with a newer version of ubuntu, it made the newer version the default in the boot menu - how do I make the old version the default again?
[15:33] <dwatkins> !grub
[15:33] <dwatkins> if it's the same as it was many versions ago, you can just edit the order in your menu.lst, but I've not toyed with grub for a long time.
[15:33] <Azelphur> Can anyone recommend a nice cheap camera to go with zoneminder?
[15:33] <Azelphur> preferably wireless
[15:47] <BigRedS> KrimZon_2: generally, the safest way is to have your preferred OS be in charge of Grub
[15:48] <KrimZon_2> BigRedS: how do I do that?
[16:03] <BigRedS> KrimZon_2: generally uninstall it from the non-preferred one and install it only on the preferred one
[16:03] <BigRedS> but not that way round
[16:05] <KrimZon_2> ahh, I figured out how - "sudo grub-install /dev/sda1" on the old install
[16:05] <KrimZon_2> I was really stumped as to what to search for to find that out
[16:06] <KrimZon_2> I was googling vague stuff like "grub2 how to install again"
[16:09] <BigRedS> yeah, but next time grub is updated on the non-preferred one it'll overwrite that
[17:23] <Paladine> http://www.googlelawsuit.co.uk/ if anyone is interested
[17:25] <BigRedS> Heh, get apache2_default without the www...
[17:32] <Paladine> yeah am gonna add the vhost now
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> Paladine: just add a ServerAlias directive in the current one
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> Paladine: much easier ;)
[17:32] <MartijnVdS> 1 ServerName, then lots of ServerAliases
[17:33] <Paladine> or I can just use ServerAlias *.googlelawsuit.co.uk right?
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> Paladine: uh.. let me check
[17:33] <MartijnVdS> yes
[17:34] <MartijnVdS> (I wasn't sure about wildcard support)
[17:35] <Paladine> ok it works now
[17:35] <Paladine> or should
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> *\o/*
[17:35] <Paladine> try going to anything.googlelawsuit.co.uk
[17:35] <MartijnVdS> Paladine: not everything resolves
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> Paladine: also, *.googlelawsuit.co.uk doesn't match googlelawsuit.co.uk (without anything in front)
[17:36] <Paladine> yeah I need to restart apache too I think
[17:36] <Paladine> cos it still going to default apache page for me
[17:36] <MartijnVdS> reload should be enough
[17:37] <Paladine> nope reload didnt work or the wildcard doesnt work
[17:38] <Paladine> ok wildcard didn't seem to work so I just added the actual alias
[17:38] <Paladine> and it works now
[17:39] <Paladine> working for you?
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> well "whateverItypehere.googlelawsuit.co.uk" still doesn't resolve (hence it won't work with apache ;))
[17:46] <MartijnVdS> but yes, with and without www work
[17:48] <BigRedS> Wildcard should work
[17:48] <BigRedS> I'm using it
[17:53] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: his wildcard dns isn't set up
[20:50] <JohnRobert> hello
[21:01] <daftykins> hi
[22:00] <Klettbar> anyone expert of cpu clock
[22:00] <Klettbar> i am concerned with the radiation tehy emit
[22:00] <Klettbar> for example
[22:00] <Klettbar> if they core duo 1.2 ghz
[22:01] <Klettbar> what's teh actual electromagnetic radiation output
[22:01] <dwatkins> there are regulations controlling the amount of EMI a device can put out, Klettbar
[22:02] <dwatkins> if you want to detect it for yourself, you could get an EMF detector like this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/62367895/mrghost-iphone-emf-detector/
[22:02] <Klettbar> yes, but i think subjects might be more or less sensitive
[22:02] <dwatkins> subjects?
[22:04] <Klettbar> individuals
[22:05] <dwatkins> you could put your computer in a Faraday cage if you're really concerned, but I've been surrounded by electronic devices all my life and have never suffered any ill effects.
[22:07] <dwatkins> why are you concerned about EMF, Klettbar?
[22:12] <Klettbar> prevention
[22:13] <Klettbar> i don't know
[22:13] <Klettbar> just a topic
[22:13] <dwatkins> "In the absence of evidence from cellular or animal studies, and given the methodological uncertainties and in many cases inconsistencies of the existing epidemiologic literature, there is no chronic disease outcome for which an etiological relation to EMF exposure can be regarded as established."
[22:13] <Klettbar> ii imagine i feel something when i use a computer
[22:13] <dwatkins> source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1240626/pdf/ehp109s-000911.pdf
[22:13] <Klettbar> but cna be my imagination
[22:13] <dwatkins> there's static electricity from a CRT, of course
[22:14] <ali1234> computers put out EMF all over
[22:14] <Klettbar> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEk7_ml5UII
[22:14] <ali1234> not just the CPU. all the busses too, on different frequencies
[22:14] <Klettbar> other day i walked along a tall big antenna for telecommunications
[22:15] <Klettbar> and had the same feeling/imagination
[22:15] <dwatkins> I imagine all sorts of devices put out a fair amount of EMF.
[22:15] <dwatkins> My alarm clock certainly does, but that's becuase it's a mobile phone ;)
[22:16] <ali1234> anyone got the link to the russian fm transmitter where the guy pokes it with a stick and you can hear the radio in the arc
[22:16] <dwatkins> 'We had an interesting incident near Humboldt State University. A new cell tower went up and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cell phone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health. To paraphrase the bottom line: "think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."'
[22:17] <ali1234> Klettbar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG0mnOCHvww
[22:17] <dwatkins> Personally I think any ill effects are in the mind. I could be wrong, but I've never known anyone to get ill by being around electronics.
[22:18] <Klettbar> time-lapse illness
[22:18] <ali1234> radio transmitters are serious business
[22:18] <Klettbar> you can't see it from one single photo
[22:18] <Klettbar> i know we can't renounce to electronic devices
[22:18] <daftykins> dwatkins: :D so true. paranoia gets most people
[22:19] <daftykins> i do however think kids should not have mobile phones until their skulls have formed properly
[22:19] <Klettbar> but i think research should advance in the field of electronic devices and health
[22:19] <dwatkins> daftykins: agreed, for many reasons
[22:20] <dwatkins> Klettbar: there are lots of studies like the one I linked, I don't believe anything has been found to show such devices are dangerous
[22:20] <bagpuss_thecat> Klettbar: it does, every day
[22:20] <bagpuss_thecat> electronic devices are used to make miracles happen
[22:20] <bagpuss_thecat> ie, CAT scanners, MRI, pacemakers, etc
[22:20] <bagpuss_thecat> you don't hear fearmongers going on about the stuff that saves lives
[22:21] <ali1234> yes you do
[22:21] <ali1234> stem cell research
[22:21] <ali1234> genetic engineering
[22:21] <ali1234> "wah wah wah"
[22:21] <bagpuss_thecat> ach I class them as religious extremists :-)
[22:21] <ali1234> nanotech is going to destroy the world
[22:22] <dwatkins> grey goo!
[22:22] <Klettbar> how do you explain the increasing rate of tumors
[22:22] <ali1234> pretty much anything, someone somewhere thinks it is going to destroy the world
[22:22] <Klettbar> such a research shoudl have special criteria
[22:22] <dwatkins> Klettbar: doctors are getting better at finding tumours
[22:22] <Klettbar> :)
[22:22] <AlanBell> Klettbar: I would explain it by the lack of people dying from "a long illness"
[22:22] <bagpuss_thecat> Aggressive Hegemonizing Swarms!
[22:22] <ali1234> first i would question is there any evidence that the rate of tumors is actually increasing?
[22:22] <Klettbar> i like when ppl get what i mean
[22:23] <bagpuss_thecat> Klettbar: earlier detection and more accurate detection
[22:23] <dwatkins> Personally I think people should concentrate on stopping the damage to the planet, not turning off things which aren't actually causing any demonstrable harm.
[22:23] <ali1234> AlanBell: less people dying from a short illness too
[22:23] <ali1234> ie people live longer = more likely to get cancer
[22:23] <ali1234> cos we cured everything else
[22:23] <AlanBell> that too, yes
[22:23] <bagpuss_thecat> I have no doubt our increasingly unhealthy lifestyles are also a contributory cause towards cancer
[22:24] <bagpuss_thecat> but blaming it on electronics is just... bollocks
[22:24] <dwatkins> there's a chance that car exhaust in the air has increased lung cancer, as has smoking far more significantly, of course.
[22:24] <Klettbar> for example, bagpuss_thecat
[22:24] <Klettbar> ?
[22:24] <daftykins> i once heard that there's a tribe of people that've never been affected by cancer. however they eat all their food raw without cooking, so instead they have all kinds of other common ailments
[22:24] <ali1234> our lifestyles pretty healthy compared to a couple hundred years ago when everyone was pooping in the street and not washing their hands
[22:24] <dwatkins> daftykins: did they have a life expectancy of about 25 years?
[22:24] <Klettbar> what ailments daftykins
[22:24] <daftykins> dwatkins: not a clue
[22:25] <dwatkins> wouldn't surprise me if they did, sadly
[22:25] <daftykins> Klettbar: simple things attributable to not cooking food
[22:25] <Klettbar> humans can not see effects in teh long run
[22:25] <Klettbar> thus should trust intuition, common sense tradition
[22:25] <dwatkins> yes we can, that's what historians do
[22:26] <AlanBell> lol
[22:26] <ali1234> common sense? nooooooooooooooooo
[22:26] <dwatkins> I'm off to bed, have a fun discussion folks...
[22:26] <bagpuss_thecat> Klettbar: what you've just described is short sightedness and fear of the unknown
[22:26] <ali1234> common sense suggest the sun orbits the earth, which is flat - among other hilariously incorrect things
[22:26] <bagpuss_thecat> like most extreme religions have
[22:27] <Klettbar> only in teh field of health
[22:27] <bagpuss_thecat> you can't have everything except something
[22:28] <Klettbar> something except something
[22:28] <Klettbar> scientist should focus on this
[22:28] <AlanBell> so, shall we trust intuition, or a double blind clinical trial
[22:28] <Klettbar> not weapons but shoiield
[22:28] <Klettbar> shield
[22:28] <Klettbar> have to close
[22:28] <Klettbar> slowing my
[22:28] <Klettbar> "device"
[22:28] <Klettbar> bye
[22:29] <bagpuss_thecat> the EMF got to him
[22:29] <daftykins> i'm sorry, but what a friggin' nutcase
[22:29] <daftykins> almost as bad as the time i got asked by a friend of a friend if there were any noise suppressors for network cables
[22:29] <bagpuss_thecat> scissors
[22:30] <daftykins> oh he didn't do wireless
[22:30] <daftykins> fear of, well what that guy had
[22:30] <bagpuss_thecat> I honestly cannot fathom why some people just can't trust science
[22:30] <ali1234> wat
[22:30] <bagpuss_thecat> "But I personally must understand everything"
[22:30] <bagpuss_thecat> you can't. just face it
[22:30] <ali1234> of course there are noise suppressors for network cables...
[22:31] <solarcloud> Tonite's meal of Toad In The Hole didn't expand high enough in the included Tesco baking tray. solarcloud is moderately disappointed with Tesco :( , but eats his chow none the less...
[22:31]  * bagpuss_thecat looks at mgdm 
[22:32] <ali1234> http://www.iautomate.com/products/Ferrite-Chokes-for-RFID-CAT5-Installations.html
[22:32] <daftykins> ali1234: that's not the point, the guy in question was claiming he was getting noise on recordings or something
[22:32] <ali1234> well maybe he was?
[22:32] <ali1234> RFI can be nasty
[22:32] <daftykins> or just generally paranoid about EMI on cables that went into his room
[22:32] <solarcloud> Have I missed a flame-war ??
[22:32] <daftykins> ugh nevermind, cba to have this conversation
[22:33] <ali1234> mains hum is pretty much universal
[22:34] <ali1234> of course if you're not setting up a recording studio there isn't much point worrying about it
[22:36]  * mgdm looks at bagpuss_thecat 
[22:38]  * bagpuss_thecat looks at mgdm again
[22:38] <bagpuss_thecat> your fault
[22:39] <mgdm> what is?
[22:40] <bagpuss_thecat> EMF
[22:40] <bagpuss_thecat> :-)
[22:40] <mgdm> ah
[22:45] <czajkowski> daftykins: /ignore is your friend :)
[22:45] <daftykins> no, i've never used that function in the years i've been around IRC
[22:45] <daftykins> and i won't be starting now :)
[22:45] <daftykins> plus i've dealt with worse than ali1234 ;) sadly
[22:48] <ali1234> heh, that guy the other day. block someone and then ask what they said?
[22:48] <daftykins> who was that?
[22:49] <ali1234> someone on g+
[22:49] <ali1234> kind of silly if you ask me
[22:50] <daftykins> czajkowski: you must meet a lot of nutters in the circles you move in now?
[23:16] <dogmatic69> done my tax return early this year. All done with 45min to spare...
[23:30] <daftykins> dogmatic69: :D i did mine early too!
[23:30] <dogmatic69> nice!
[23:52] <Azelphur> Anyone recommend a good cheap surround sound compatible with a PC?
[23:52] <Azelphur> For my HTPC, so a front room job
[23:53] <daftykins> i used to use a logitech speaker set in the past
[23:54] <Azelphur> daftykins: anything specific?
[23:55] <daftykins> well the set is the Z-5500 i think but i don't know if they make them anymore