[00:59] <Zelouille> Hi. I can't put a wallpaper (background) in lxlauncher (lubuntu netbook interface). However, lxlauncher README file says : « Please put the images in /usr/share/lxlauncher/backround. LXLauncher will use those background images if available. »
[16:04] <jirido> Hi again! I looked at the ubuntu guide on how to ad programs to autostart and the tutorial i looked said to drag and drop new entrys from start menu, but it does not work so i guess there is an alternative way for lubuntu..
[16:04] <holstein> jirido: in lxe
[16:04] <holstein> lxde*
[16:05] <holstein> jirido: lubuntu *is* ubuntu. but the drag and drop guide you are reading is likely for gnome2 or unity
[16:05] <holstein> jirido: what are you trying to do?
[16:05] <jirido> just ad mumble to autostart
[16:06] <holstein> i use mumble, and i wouldnt, but heres what i do
[16:06] <holstein> http://wiki.lxde.org/en/Autostart
[16:07] <jirido> ells people cant find and call me i think.. Thanks holstein ! all well to you
[16:07] <holstein> jirido: you shouldnt have to add murmur to autostart
[16:07] <holstein> jirido: you think what?
[16:08] <holstein> jirido: if mumbe is running, its running
[16:08] <holstein> its not for telephony really though
[16:08] <holstein> its not meant for "call me in the morning"
[16:09] <jirido> No? but how can people cal me up/ yes but i gonna use it for telephoning/ low latency good quality and can talk in group, private server, encrypted and so on
[16:09] <holstein> i dont think autostarting the mumble client will make it autoconnect
[16:10] <jirido> no?
[16:10] <holstein> jirido: sure, and you can use it for that, but its not meant for that
[16:10] <holstein> jirido: you autostart it, you still need to join a server
[16:10] <jirido> I know but im not wery normal :)
[16:10] <holstein> jirido: its got nothing to do with normal
[16:10] <holstein> jirido: or you
[16:11] <holstein> jirido: its a matter of expecting functionality of a tool that is not designed for that function
[16:11] <holstein> what i hear you saying is "im using mumble for calls, and i dont think people can call me"
[16:11] <holstein> jirido: the reason is, its not made for that.. you have to join servers, and maintain the connection
[16:11] <holstein> jirido: its not meant to replace skype
[16:12] <holstein> of course you can use it for "calls", but you should expect to work around the issues that using it not as its intended will bring about
[16:13] <jirido> well i understand it is werry good and fill up a lott if not all what i requireso .. then i try to fix the rest instead of going with skype or other/ yes ofcourse you are right.. thats why i wanted to start with autostart ;)
[16:13] <holstein> jirido: sure, but there is nothing to "fix"
[16:14] <holstein> jirido: its not "broken", its just not appropriate for the task
[16:14] <jirido> ok woraround
[16:14] <jirido> work around!
[16:14] <holstein> well, the workaround is to start it, and connect and hope the server maintains your connection
[16:14] <holstein> you cant do anything to keep the connection to the server
[16:14] <holstein> even if its your server, the folks coming in could drop
[16:15] <jirido> well i do not know this app yet but have got it recomended,, so u say it has no autoconnect?
[16:16] <holstein> jirido: what if the server is down?
[16:16] <holstein> jirido: what if you get a commandline string that tries to autoconnect?
[16:16] <holstein> jirido: it tries, and it doesnt report that its not connected...
[16:16] <jirido> thats an other problem, lets hope not :)
[16:16] <holstein> jirido: what do i suggest?
[16:16] <holstein> jirido: "hope" is not something i do with computers
[16:16] <holstein> jirido: i test, and report, and know
[16:17] <holstein> jirido: i use lxde.. lubntu, and mumble, and i know
[16:17] <holstein> you say you are having issues, im telling you why
[16:17] <holstein> jirido: i suggest, just start mumble, and see that the connect is up and working
[16:17] <holstein> jirido: you wont have any way of reconnecting if that server goes down, or your connection goes out or whatever
[16:18] <holstein> jirido: thats why its not telephony
[16:18] <holstein> jirido: its not made to me that "always on" way to contact you
[16:18] <holstein> jirido: its made for a lowlatency network for gaming or chat
[16:18] <holstein> jirido: nd it works great, but something like skype (or a free alternative) will be always on like you are looking for
[16:20] <jirido> yes but im not all you are and cant bee.. for an example im on linux becauce windows is not secure and not of intrest for code or so.. for me it is a must rather than an intresst and that makes the aproache to things different from many whom hangs on irc for a starter.. but i have chickens in the barn and a garden and have to fire with woods if i wana have it warm and so on.. its different for all/ i dont like skype!
[16:21] <holstein> jirido: skype or a free alternative
[16:21] <holstein> jirido: im not saying "use skype", im saying, use something made for telephony
[16:21] <holstein> Moewe: mumble is not
[16:22] <holstein> Moewe: sorry...
[16:22] <jirido> I would like something like skype then but have not found any with better propertys tham mumble
[16:22] <holstein> jirido: ^^ mumble is not
[16:22] <holstein> jirido: sure... then use it
[16:22] <holstein> but autostarting the app at boot wont "fix" anything
[16:22] <jirido> i gona try to whip that horse to behave
[16:22] <holstein> jirido: i would do as i suggested above... start it, see that it connects and check in on it
[16:22] <Moewe> np holstein
[16:22] <Myrtti> empathy + ekiga / google talk + google video chat
[16:22] <holstein> jirido: its not "misbehaving"
[16:23] <holstein> jirido: its not made for what you are trying to do
[16:23] <jirido> I gona try anyway.. or rather.. I am trying right here and right now :)
[16:24] <holstein> jirido: you dont have to try. you just use it, knowing the limitations
[16:24] <holstein> jirido: i use mumble regularly
[16:24] <holstein> i also use skypc, and gtalk, and i have looking into empathy and ekiga
[16:27] <jirido> But comman you have to emit that development comes from trying to expand functionality.. most of things in things "Not intended to.. and dont come and say now that that is only for programmers.. Its a soul property! and its good to have even if you dont know everything.. even mor nessesary the in fact..
[16:27] <holstein> jirido: sure, and mumble is open, if you would like to try and get a group and fork it or whatever
[16:27] <jirido> then in fact
[16:28] <holstein> jirido: but, there are thinks like Myrtti mentioned already.. open alternatives to skype
[16:28] <holstein> jirido: mumble is more of an open alternative to teamspeak
[16:28] <jirido> mumblephone2 super extra :)
[16:28] <holstein> jirido: sure.. you are not only welcome to do that, but encouraged
[16:29] <jirido> Im no gamer you know.. I would not dare/ thats good
[16:30] <holstein> jirido: ?
[16:30] <jirido> so i would only need to ad autoconect funktionality actually
[16:30] <holstein> jirido: sure, but to what server??
[16:30] <holstein> jirido: the server is the issue... its not made for telephony like that
[16:31] <jirido> Well i so easyly get in to things when i start so if i start gaming .. / why not it serves good now
[16:33] <jirido> i like to have speek hangout for me and my pals to be able to be on or to use to talk privately from if we wish
[16:34] <holstein> sure,, but there is "google hangout" actually designed for that
[16:34] <holstein> and mumble will work great for that
[16:34] <holstein> its the expecting the client to run as a background servive that might not work
[16:34] <holstein> service*
[16:34] <jirido> i dont like to tuch on coperate structure by default
[16:34] <holstein> jirido: sure and im *not* suggesting you do
[16:35] <holstein> jirido: i am merely offering suggestions for things that *exactly* meet your needs
[16:35] <holstein> jirido: you can choose to seek out, or developed more open solutions
[16:35] <holstein> jirido: a google hangout does do *exactly* what you are trying to do
[16:35] <holstein> jirido: looking at how it works and what it uses might help you determine what you need/want
[16:36] <holstein> jirido: i dont care if you ever use it, nor am i saying you should
[16:37] <jirido> so i like to have a private connection server , private conversation, a group "room" low latency, noise reduction, open source, good sound,, Tell me were would you recomend with this in thought? remember private connection server.
[16:38] <holstein> jirido: you can do that with mumble.. you just have to keep in mind, you are maintaining the server
[16:38] <holstein> so if the server is down, or doesnt connect, you wont connect
[16:39] <holstein> jirido: i would look at what google does with gtalk to address these concerns
[16:39] <holstein> what do i do?? i use what the other person uses
[16:39] <holstein> or, i use mumble, and i dont expect telophony functionality from it
[16:39] <holstein> i use it as its intended
[16:39] <jirido> yes but that problem always are there the only thing needed as i se it now after having talked with you is autoconnect
[16:39] <holstein> jirido: i dont think so
[16:40] <holstein> jirido: waht if you autoconnect? and it fails? what next?
[16:40] <jirido> what more then
[16:40] <holstein> jirido: does it go to another server?
[16:40] <holstein> what server? when and why? and now are you on a different server?
[16:40] <holstein> jirido: if autoconnet were "easy" or worked, it would likely be a feature
[16:40] <holstein> plus, you dont need it. you just start and connect
[16:41] <jirido> or try again and maybe after some tryes pops up saying sorry pal , out of luck today? server down
[16:41] <holstein> jirido: sure.. then what?
[16:41] <holstein> jirido: you are not autoconnected... and you cant recieve calls
[16:42] <holstein> you might as well just set it up each time and make sure its connected to the server you want to be on
[16:42] <holstein> thats what i do.. i make sure we are all connected
[16:42] <holstein> jirido: why not set up a vpn with your friends?
[16:42] <holstein> thats as open and secure as you choose it to be
[16:42] <jirido> yes but i like to autostart xchat pidgin and mumble../ then i go trying to fix what ever make the server downerver..
[16:42] <holstein> jirido: sure.. autostart it then
[16:43] <jirido> I want to be able to say.. Hey comean get this so we can speak free
[16:43] <holstein> jirido: i just dont think that will ever work as you want it to, and i would seek support for autostarting mumble with autoconnect with mumobe
[16:43] <holstein> jirido: sure, the vps is a free as mumble is
[16:43] <holstein> vpn*
[16:44] <holstein> its over your network, under your control
[16:44] <jirido> but it is more integrated and more serious if it gets hacked
[16:44] <holstein> jirido: no.. its not more "serious"
[16:44] <holstein> jirido: if anything, its less serious if it gets hacked
[16:44] <holstein> jirido: its over the network.. the same network
[16:45] <holstein> if you had an encrypted vpn setup, that would be arguably "better" and leave you more options
[16:45] <jirido> I dont like to hang out or offer or sugest something to friends or people i meet that i cant defend or protect that can become a risk
[16:46] <holstein> jirido: this has *nothing* to do with telephony
[16:46] <jirido> well im not to good to be true ;)
[16:46] <holstein> jirido: if folks want to play ont he internet, they take a risk
[16:46] <holstein> i would /join #mumble and ask about the mumble specific questions
[16:46] <TheLordOfTime> holstein:  correction: if folks want to do anything on the internet, they take a risk.
[16:46] <holstein> TheLordOfTime: true...
[16:46] <TheLordOfTime> just being on the internet makes you a potential target of drive-bys
[16:47] <TheLordOfTime> (just saying!)
[16:47] <holstein> jirido: i wouldnt assume that mumlbe traffic is secure
[16:47] <holstein> jirido: mumble is also not made for "secure conversations"
[16:47] <holstein> jirido: its made for fast, lowlatency gaming talk
[16:48] <jirido> well i feel that mumble is somewath risk free to recommend and easy to get on to.. and i did not aske mumble question but just for how to add a program to autostart list.. but have anyway enjoyed ore conversation :)
[16:48] <holstein> jirido: feel? its not
[16:48] <jirido> it's encrypted by default
[16:48] <holstein> jirido: its open, and not encrypted.. its not for secure conversations
[16:48] <holstein> jirido: sure, but for speed
[16:48] <holstein> jirido: not security
[16:49] <jirido> 128bit rsa?
[16:49] <holstein> jirido: you can, and should research that.. the compression and encryption is not for security
[16:49] <holstein> jirido: its not made to be safe.. its made to be fast
[16:50] <jirido> The voice channel carrying speech and positional audio is encrypted with OCB-AES 128 bit
[16:50] <jirido> says FAQ
[16:50] <holstein> jirido: its not designed for that either.. its not a "secure telephony" applications
[16:51] <holstein> jirido: all of the traffic is tailored for speed.. not security
[16:51] <jirido> so you mean that 128 bit is not secure
[16:52] <holstein> jirido: i mean just what i said.. mumble is not for secure telephony
[16:52] <jirido> The so-called control channel, which transports your chat messages and other non-time critical information, is encrypted with TLS using 256 bit AES-SHA.
[16:52] <holstein> jirido: if you trust is, go for it
[16:53] <jirido> Ok. Im a political figure here at home and i use usbmodem as im farout countryside and the lies are to long to give broadband
[16:55] <holstein> jirido: none of that is relevant. all that is relevant is assuming mumble secure for telephony
[16:55] <jirido> I like to be able to have a secure talk.. so what would you then sugest if one want low latency and no corporate touch. surely not google
[16:56] <holstein> jirido: i suggested the vpn already
[16:56] <holstein> jirido: i *never* suggested google or "corporate touch" for secure
[16:57] <holstein> jirido: i suggested looking at how google is implementing its services that you could emulate via vpn
[16:57] <holstein> jirido: to get secure talk over the internet, it really depends on what you are willing to compromise
[16:58] <holstein> i would not expect super low latency.. and i wouldnt use something designed for gaming
[16:58] <jirido> but if some one hack any of the mashines in the network it is totally unsecure and it would be complicated to get to work for all on all diferent mashines,
[16:58] <holstein> i would look at securing the connections via vpn, and then you can use whatever on the network as it is local... ekiga or whatever
[16:59] <jirido> sorry i wright slow and have to look at the keybord while wrighting
[16:59] <holstein> jirido: ?
[16:59] <jirido> vpn
[16:59] <holstein> jirido: correct. vpn
[16:59] <holstein> jirido: you cant just setup mumble and assume thats more secure
[16:59] <holstein> jirido: i mean,, you can.. but thats not the case
[17:00] <jirido> To complicated to ask people to participate i think.. firewalls and so on
[17:00] <holstein> jirido: sure.. secure *is* complicated
[17:00] <holstein> jirido: the reason mumble is easy is because its less secure
[17:01] <holstein> and arguably secure at all...
[17:01] <jirido> yes but if it is Q of a "Talk to me " software it could be simmpler than vnp
[17:01] <holstein> jirido: i wouldnt expect to have easy and secure
[17:02] <holstein> jirido: skype is easier that vpn, and you can get connected from machine to machine
[17:02] <jirido> well skype says it is!
[17:02] <holstein> says it is what?
[17:02] <jirido> well can one in groupe without going true their servers?
[17:03] <jirido> secure
[17:03] <holstein> jirido: i dont maintain skype
[17:03] <holstein> jirido: i dont expect mumble to be secure
[17:03] <jirido> well havt said you do or what?
[17:03] <holstein> jirido: i dont expect secure unless i have an ecrypted tunnel
[17:03] <holstein> jirido: i dont exepect secure over the internect
[17:03] <holstein> internet*
[17:04] <jirido> so there is no secure opensource talk and chat that is easy to setup
[17:04] <jirido> Thats sad
[17:04] <holstein> if your isp, or the other persons isp logged the traffic, and its encrypted, what would it take for someone to open that?
[17:04] <holstein> jirido: ?
[17:04] <holstein> jirido: this has *nothing* to do with opensource
[17:04] <jirido> ofcourse it has
[17:04] <holstein> jirido: this is the internet... using the internet is a risk
[17:05] <holstein> jirido: no.. its has options to help
[17:05] <jirido> sure but there is eforts to overcome that
[17:05] <holstein> jirido: yes.. a vpn.. openvpn is opensource
[17:05] <holstein> ssh is opensource
[17:05] <jirido> ssh is easy and fairly secure
[17:06] <holstein> jirido: then use it, if it makes you feel safe
[17:06] <jirido> i do
[17:06] <jirido> but not for talking obviously :)
[17:06] <holstein> jirido: then, i would chat, text, via ssh..
[17:07] <holstein> jirido: if you want secure telophony, you will have to decide what you are willing to compromise for security vs functionality, just as the others do
[17:07] <holstein> just as skype has and gtalk... and whoever else
[17:07] <jirido> thats what i mean with sad
[17:07] <holstein> jirido: ?
[17:08] <holstein> jirido: run your own skype
[17:08] <holstein> jirido: run your own ekiga over a secure tunnel
[17:08] <holstein> jirido: run *anything* over ssh or vpn
[17:08] <jirido> sad to not be able 2013 to talk with your buddys safe and easy
[17:08] <holstein> jirido: the internet is not designe to provide you that
[17:09] <holstein> jirido: its designed to connect you..
[17:10] <holstein> jirido: if an isp is logging your traffic, what would it take to crack it? an amazon array? would it take a week? how much would it cost? is it worth it?
[17:11] <holstein> jirido: if you are traveling over the internet, and its worth it to someone to have your information, then they will likely find a way
[17:11] <holstein> jirido: this has nothing to do with 'opensource' or not
[17:11] <holstein> jirido: big corporations deal with these issues just as large and small opensource projects
[17:12] <holstein> i think anyone who is going to be honest will say, just as TheLordOfTime suggeste above, being on the internet is a risk
[17:13] <TheLordOfTime> yep
[17:13] <jirido> well fore me it is ok if the local bored police cant hack me dead easy by parking here up the woods and dump my network traffic
[17:14] <holstein> jirido: what about the other person you are connecting to. or persons..
[17:14] <jirido> security is relative is it not? vpn could be hacked the same or what?
[17:14] <TheLordOfTime> VPNs are harder to hack, but just as likely to be a target
[17:14] <TheLordOfTime> as is a blog site, an email server, a file server...
[17:15] <holstein> jirido: *everything* can be hacked.. the vpn is totally under your control.. your level of encryption... then the options are more open too
[17:15] <TheLordOfTime> i could go on forever, but *everything* is capable of being hacked
[17:15] <TheLordOfTime> with enough effort
[17:15] <holstein> yup... *anything*
[17:15] <jirido> well heeat i pull on by being naughty is not maybe so relevant then as the police is relatively lasy and so
[17:15] <TheLordOfTime> anything computer related has as much risk of being hacked as you stepping out into traffic and being hit by a car
[17:16] <jirido> so then mumble is just a little easyer to hack then vpn
[17:16] <TheLordOfTime> and assuming you're smart about it you're *not* going to be walking out into traffic and get hit by a car anyways
[17:16] <jirido> well sometimes its time to walk in the trafic :)
[17:16] <TheLordOfTime> jirido:  everything is hackable, so making the comparison is irrelevant
[17:16] <holstein> jirido: mumble is not designed for secure connections
[17:16] <TheLordOfTime> and holstein is right
[17:17] <TheLordOfTime> mumble is *NOT* a secure communication method
[17:17] <jirido> you have made it many times so far so why not me?
[17:17]  * TheLordOfTime doesn't use mumble :P
[17:17] <holstein> jirido: i would not assume it to be safe.. a vpn *is* designed for security... but i wouldnt trust it like its un-hackable
[17:17] <holstein> i use mumble.. but i dont expect it to be secure..
[17:17] <TheLordOfTime> the only truly unhackable system is a non-networked system that is locked inside a room with ia key, numeric pin, and biometric security.
[17:17] <jirido> so there is a scale!
[17:17] <TheLordOfTime> and at that point it's not useful, so... :
[17:18] <TheLordOfTime> :P *
[17:18] <jirido> so there is a scale!
[17:18] <TheLordOfTime> nope
[17:18] <holstein> jirido: ?
[17:18] <TheLordOfTime> jirido:  i'm giving you the utmost extreme example of a system that can't be hacked because its not exposed.  its not even on the internet.
[17:18] <TheLordOfTime> jirido:  the MOMENT your system is connected to the internet, or even a local LAN, it is at risk
[17:19] <jirido> scale of hackability, and tresholds
[17:19] <holstein> jirido: you can have whatever scale you want.. the fact is, you take risks on the internet... make sure you are comfortable with those risks
[17:19] <TheLordOfTime> there is no "scale" of hackability
[17:19] <holstein> yeah... the scale would depend on a lot of factors
[17:19] <TheLordOfTime> and each scale is tailored to each system/network/infrastructure
[17:19] <holstein> and also, who would care?.. like when skype sayd "safe and secure"... they are not responsible
[17:19] <jirido> yes you say vnp is safer = scale of hackabillety
[17:19] <holstein> mumble isnt either
[17:20] <holstein> jirido: vpn is designed for that task
[17:20] <holstein> jirido: mumble has nothing to do with security
[17:20] <TheLordOfTime> everything holstein said.
[17:20] <holstein> jirido: i say, purely on design
[17:20] <jirido> so it is better on a scale as mumble also is encrypted
[17:20] <TheLordOfTime> ...
[17:20] <TheLordOfTime> i'm done, we're going in circles.
[17:20] <holstein> jirido: "better" is a matter of opinion
[17:20] <TheLordOfTime> i'd rather stab php5's source code with a rusty spoon anyways
[17:20] <jirido> i get you
[17:21] <jirido> TheLordOfTime, then i think it is time to :)
[17:21] <holstein> safer can be a matter of opinion too.. but it comes down to what you want to trust, and what you are willing to setup
[17:22] <TheLordOfTime> and what holstein said is the  "limit of risk that one deems acceptable"
[17:22] <TheLordOfTime> which is always > 0 (there's ALWAYS some level of risk you will be taking at all times)
[17:22] <holstein> yup.. its really up to you.. security is a personal thing
[17:22] <TheLordOfTime> (and which you are willing to accept)
[17:22] <TheLordOfTime> and what holstein said: security's a (relatively) personal thing
[17:22] <jirido> well as you know by now i want a telefon system "Fairly" secure, easy to invite to, and good sound and so on
[17:22] <holstein> some folks have lots of locks on their doors.. some have security systems.. if i want what is in their house, i can likley find a way to get it though
[17:23] <holstein> jirido: fairly?.. you *never* said "fairly"
[17:23] <holstein> you said "im a governemtn official"
[17:23] <holstein> jirido: i think skype is "fairly" secure
[17:23] <TheLordOfTime> if you're government, andyou want secure communications, its called "STE Secure Telephone"
[17:23] <holstein> jirido: thats why i suggested it... and it *is* easy
[17:24] <TheLordOfTime> it costs a TON, and requires you to have security clearance to use it.
[17:24] <jirido> as you have said and as i ofcource have known from before "Noting is secure exept concreet room etc
[17:24] <TheLordOfTime> and an STE telephone line (not worth it to crack it :P)
[17:24] <TheLordOfTime> but that's hardwired things
[17:24] <TheLordOfTime> not VoIP
[17:24] <TheLordOfTime> :P
[17:24] <holstein> jirido: the systems that TheLordOfTime mentions *has* accountability
[17:24] <holstein> jirido: if you get hacked, someone gets fired
[17:25] <jirido> but they will have a register of my traffic whitch i dont like
[17:25] <holstein> jirido: that helps.. they *do* guarantee privacy on some level
[17:25] <TheLordOfTime> jirido:  lemme tell you something:
[17:25] <holstein> jirido: and you pay for that
[17:25] <TheLordOfTime> i have administrative access to certain networks for small businesses
[17:25] <TheLordOfTime> that is to say, my codes can access a log of EVERYTHING that business does.
[17:25] <TheLordOfTime> of course, i don't do that, because i'm on a contract with them.
[17:25] <TheLordOfTime> but that is to say those small businesses have *accepted* the risk that I may go bonkers and steal their info
[17:26] <TheLordOfTime> because the legal repercussions for me doing that are so high its not worth me doing it
[17:26] <TheLordOfTime> therefore: if you do not accept *someone* tracking your traffic, and voice communications over VoIP, don't do it
[17:26] <TheLordOfTime> which goes back to the level of "acceptable risk" you are willing to take
[17:27] <TheLordOfTime> at some point you will have to accept that someone somewhere will track your information at some level
[17:27] <holstein> isp's can and do track and log
[17:27] <TheLordOfTime> and there's no way to get around that
[17:27] <TheLordOfTime> which is why there's numerous trainings in the work environment on "Safe Internet Practices"
[17:27] <holstein> even if your isp doenst, the other one can... or what about the data center?.. you cant know that its not being tracked/logged
[17:28] <holstein> and encryption is just that... with enough time, one could get through that and decrypt
[17:28] <holstein> enough time, or a bot net.. or amazon array or whatever
[17:28] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[17:28] <TheLordOfTime> and this goes back to the fundamentally insecure nature of the internet
[17:28] <TheLordOfTime> and there is a 100% chance that someone somewhere will track your information
[17:28] <jirido> Im not that intressting in realtime:) rather the heat goes in waves
[17:29] <holstein> and thats really all you can do.. you or any opensource or commercial entity.. apply encryption
[17:29] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[17:29] <holstein> jirido: i have no idea what that means
[17:29] <holstein> jirido: i would do text via ssh
[17:30] <holstein> jirido: i would not do *anything* on the internet that i didnt want to be found out
[17:30] <TheLordOfTime> jirido:  if you do grey-area things which could/couldn't be criminal you should not be saying that here...
[17:30] <TheLordOfTime> (if i interpret "the heat goes in waves" to mean legal pressure"
[17:30] <TheLordOfTime> )
[17:30] <holstein> OR, i would pay proffesionals for services such as TheLordOfTime suggested
[17:30] <jirido> I want to be hard and uncomfortable as posible to decrypt and not have my connections recorded on anyones but a trusted computer
[17:30] <holstein> jirido: its not... if i buy an array or amazon machines... how long would it take?
[17:31] <holstein> jirido: is it worth the cost?
[17:31] <TheLordOfTime> jirido:  mind if i give you a microlesson in IT security?
[17:32] <TheLordOfTime> jirido:  the question isn't going to be "what should i use to encrypt"
[17:32] <TheLordOfTime> the question should be how valuable is your activity/informaiton/etc. to the potential hacker?
[17:32] <TheLordOfTime> I.E.
[17:32] <holstein> ok.. i gotta go... jirido: my lesson is, trust no one.. and you are already not trusting skype and google.. just dont for get the ISP's and your friends ISPs and the date centers.. cheers
[17:32] <TheLordOfTime> "I want to hack this person.  I want $someinfo.  WHat will the cost be for me to crack any encryption?  What owuld the benefits be to me?"
[17:32] <jirido> but that is unavoidable/ but it would require the local police to make it official and declare a reason to buy an aray at amazon etc, and would requ
[17:33] <TheLordOfTime> in most cases, if they really want to hack you they'll find a way
[17:33] <TheLordOfTime> police, blackhats, or otherwise
[17:33] <holstein> jirido: no... blackhats dont have to follow that
[17:33] <holstein> jirido: they just hack into the isp.. or datacenter cache and get to work
[17:33] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[17:33] <holstein> jirido: can i afford to hire them?
[17:33] <TheLordOfTime> also, is it worth the cost for you to hire them.
[17:34] <TheLordOfTime> i.e. will you get more benefit from hiring them than it cost to hire them.
[17:34] <holstein> yup.. is the payoff worth borrowing the $$
[17:34] <jirido> Yes me to have to go but i have got some of youre points , but i still think mumble is the way to go for me for now
[17:34] <TheLordOfTime> then that's your decision
[17:34] <jirido> thats sonera
[17:34] <TheLordOfTime> which means any insecurity if any from that decision you are accepting
[17:34] <holstein> yup.. cause mumble is not reponsible
[17:34] <TheLordOfTime> although i stand by mine and holstein's original statement that mumble is not inherently secure.
[17:35] <holstein> nor or they even implying its designed for security
[17:35] <jirido> the biggest isp server owner in us if not the world
[17:35] <TheLordOfTime> mhm
[17:35] <Myrtti> I wouldn't trust Sonera anything
[17:36] <jirido> whom would
[17:36] <jirido> And ofcorce i dont plan to hold anyone acountable for anything..
[17:37] <jirido> that would be a joke!
[17:37]  * TheLordOfTime goes back to stabbing php5's code base with a rusty spork, since this discussion keeps circling back on itselfe.
[17:38] <jirido> but still the law here in finland is so that there needs justifications for actions and recuired resorces..  TheLordOfTime good luck pal
[17:39] <jirido> what they can do on their own computors they can do for fun and what they can do in aftertime is diferent , like recuire loggs and etc
[23:58] <roasted> hello friends
[23:59] <TheLordOfTime> hiya
[23:59] <roasted> so I just installed lubuntu, and it works great, but the default theme is bumming me out. I'm having some trouble finding alternatives.
[23:59] <roasted> Is LXDE on 12.04 GTK3 based to use regular gnome themes with?