[13:23] <bac> morning
[13:57] <frankban> gary_poster: hi, do you have a minute?
[13:58] <gary_poster> hey frankban.  Maybe 15 minutes from now ok?  can do sooner if needed
[13:59] <frankban> gary_poster: 15 minutes are ok, thanks
[13:59] <gary_poster> cool, will ping
[14:33] <gary_poster> frankban, took longer than expected, sorry.  ready now in juju-ui
[14:33] <frankban> gary_poster: joining
[14:47] <bac> benji: second review done
[14:47] <benji> thanks bac
[14:52] <teknico> bac, what does this sentence of yours mean? "the wrapper should be goldenrod with maybe an accent wall"
[14:55] <bac> teknico: :)
[14:56] <bac> just a light-hearted reference to bike shedding
[14:56] <teknico> oh, I see
[14:56] <teknico> ok, what does it mean in literal tems then? :-)
[14:57] <bac> goldenrod is an awful color from the 70s used in suburbia.  i think it is actually resurgent now
[14:57] <bac> used in conjunction with an avacado colored dishwasher
[15:03] <teknico> and an accent wall is one wall in a room which is of a different color than the other ones
[15:03] <teknico> which is not something that I'm accustomed to :-)
[15:04] <bac> yes, inexplicably.  i came home one day and found one wall in the living room was orange.  it eventually grew on me.
[15:28] <gary_poster> bac bcsaller benji frankban goodspud hazmat Makyo teknico call in 2
[15:45] <alejandraobregon> gary_poster: arosales: hazmat: hey guys... 
[15:46] <alejandraobregon> goodspud is working on a scoping diagram for 13.04... I believe he's shared it
[15:46] <alejandraobregon> goodspud and i were thinking it would be good to use our meeting to discuss it
[15:46] <alejandraobregon> and clear up any areas that are hazy right now
[15:46] <arosales> alejandraobregon: ok, I'll check mail. Should we follow up on this on the upcoming call in ~14 minutes?
[15:47] <alejandraobregon> gary_poster: arosales: hazmat: What do you think
[15:48] <alejandraobregon> arosales: that was my thinking.... i have to attend a tablet meeting... and thought would be useful to use that hour to further define the scope for 13.04 based on goodspud diagram...
[15:48] <alejandraobregon> arosales: can be here for the first bit...
[15:48] <alejandraobregon> arosales: gary_poster is there anything else we should cover at our meeting
[15:49] <gary_poster> alejandraobregon, sorry on call.  that sounds good.  goodspud and I have a good handle on the immediate deliverables afaik, so if you want to touch base on that to know where we are that is fine, but I don't have concerns there.  All's good
[15:50] <alejandraobregon> gary_poster: excellent! okay so i'll leave you in goodspud 's capable hands... he could use the hour to get clarity on a few things
[15:58] <bcsaller> teknico: do you want to have that talk now or wait till matts up and about?
[15:59] <teknico> bcsaller, let's do it now, thanks
[15:59] <bcsaller> teknico: back in gui hangout
[16:02] <goodspud> arosales, gary_poster, can't join the hangout "You are not allowed to join this hangout"
[16:02] <gary_poster> goodspud, try using Canonical account?
[16:03] <arosales> need canonical account
[16:43] <bac> Makyo: i'm trying to replicate the drag problem on uistage and can't see the failure.  should it still fail there?
[16:43] <gary_poster> yes bac
[16:43] <gary_poster> lemme see if I can see it
[16:43] <bac> i've never seen it so perhaps i'm doing it wrong
[16:45] <gary_poster> bac I do not see it on uistage anymore either
[16:45] <bac> gary_poster: ok.  i'll try locally
[16:45] <gary_poster> bac ok
[16:46] <Makyo> Not seeing it either.  Maybe bcsaller's refactor fixed it. Trying two browsers
[16:54] <Makyo> Can't reproduce with two browsers locally.  Oh well! That's good, then.
[17:32] <gary_poster> Hey goodspud do you have five minutes?  Literally, because I have to run :-)
[17:32] <goodspud> gary_poster, certainly do
[17:32] <goodspud> hangout?
[17:33] <gary_poster> thanks goodspud , yeah
[17:33] <gary_poster> juju-ui
[17:42] <teknico> Makyo, time for a quick hangout?
[17:42] <Makyo> teknico, sure.
[17:43] <teknico> uhm, I'm trying to add you to a hangout, but it tries to call you, I don't know why :-)
[17:43] <teknico> Makyo, ^^
[17:44] <teknico> Makyo, https://plus.google.com/hangouts/_/02bb45411739e441fe107c9f66e2a8cc36ba4ba7
[17:45] <Makyo> teknico, I'm there, but I don't see you.
[17:54] <benji> teknico: revised branch up at https://codereview.appspot.com/7248050
[17:56] <teknico> benji, looking
[18:15] <teknico> benji, for some reason when looking at the patch set 2 of your branch, I cannot see inline comments anymore
[18:15] <teknico> I wonder why, it makes things cumbersome
[18:17] <benji> that's a good question; I think I have had that problem before. I have no idea what causes it.
[18:34] <bac> Makyo: second review done
[18:36] <Makyo> bac, thanks.  Will play around with the branch some more and see if it's needed anymore.  If nothing else, I can turn it into a get-rid-of-magic-numbers branch.
[18:44] <teknico> benji, approved, all comments in the reply, not inline
[18:45] <teknico> benji, I'll try to tone down the bikeshedding :-)
[18:53] <bac> Makyo: ugh, look at this render in FF on os x.  seems to be a newish regression.  https://docs.google.com/a/canonical.com/file/d/0B4pGCY-5QO19d0VtT0l4NHNxMk0/edit?usp=sharing
[18:54] <Makyo> bac, lunch, will be back in a few to get to it.
[18:55] <bac> no rush
[18:56] <benji> thanks, teknico; looking now
[19:27] <gary_poster> bac, interestingly and somewhat unhappily, FF on Quantal does not have that problem :-/
[19:27] <bac> gary_poster: yeah
[19:28] <bac> gary_poster: this is ff 18.0.1, fwis
[19:28] <bac> fwiw
[19:28] <gary_poster> bac also 18.0.1
[19:28] <gary_poster> (on ubuntu I mean)
[19:28] <bac> gotcha
[19:40]  * bac -> dentist
[20:46] <gary_poster> benji, thank you for the CI progress.  two questions.  first is to please send the group an email about what needs to happen next.  Are we simply waiting on Diogo to set up something in Jenkins, or do we need more work on our side before that can happen?  I'm happy to have a call and be the scribe if that would be a help.  Second is from the review.  bac asked you in review why you used the python-shelltoolbox branch
[20:46] <gary_poster>  rather than using the packaged version (which presumably means specifying in the HACKING document that the deb package should be installed).  You replied that this was a mistake you planned to change ("Because I was supposed to change that before proposing the branch.  Fixed.") but the Makefile in trunk still looks the same.  Actually...he also asks whether selenium should be a dependency of test-misc, and you say y
[20:46] <gary_poster> es, but everything looks the same there too.  Do you know what is going on with those?  If so, I'm curious, and if not...I'm curious. :-)
[20:47] <gary_poster> "I'm happy to have a call and be the scribe if that would be a help." I mean you and I could have a call, and I could write down what you tell me is next, and send the email.
[20:48] <benji> gary_poster: re. python-shelltoolbox; I misread his statement to be about selenium (i.e., not installing from a tar in archives/; which is what I changed)
[20:48] <gary_poster> benji, ah!
[20:48] <benji> it is better in my estimation to require a bzr branch vs. a deb install but I can do otherwise if wanted
[20:49] <gary_poster> why benji?  that is shared across the system, which has limitations, but this package changes little, and we have quite a bit of precedent
[20:49] <benji> automation
[20:50] <benji> maybe putting package installs in the Make would be good middle path
[20:50] <benji> s/Make/Makefile/
[20:50] <gary_poster> we have charm automation for this, and shell toolbox might provide, but not sure
[20:52] <benji> perhaps a card to make "make" make all that needs to be made (removing some of the prose in HACKING)
[20:53] <benji> oh! another reason: the tests need a nice, new version of the selenium package which I don't think is available
[20:53] <gary_poster> benji, remember we are talking about python-shelltoolbox not selenium :-)
[20:54] <gary_poster> benji, for now would suggest putting python-shelltoolbox in HACKING and removing virtualenv for that.  we use virtualenv where we have to but generally prefer packages in this project atm.  I guess we could have the Makefile do sudo
[20:54] <gary_poster> Then we could make the card as you describe
[20:54] <gary_poster> I'm ok with doing this myself benji
[20:54] <benji> right, but the code that is run needs selenium... hmm, but I guess that is technically a non-sequiter (sp?) because although the "driver" is a Python script and the tests are too, we can run one with the system python and the other with our virtualenv 
[20:55] <gary_poster> but want to check you are ok with plan. Prefer better than "it doesn't kill kittens" but might take it :-P I think we have a precedent for preferring packages here.
[20:55] <gary_poster> right
[20:56] <gary_poster> ah and bin/test-charm depends on selenium now
[20:57] <gary_poster> ...mm, trying to follow that through...
[20:57] <benji> I really think all this would be better done with buildout; we are fast approaching a time where we will be doing a lot of work that buildout makes easy (making test runners, building scripts, managing package installation)
[20:59] <gary_poster> Maybe.  Not very sure of that yet, but you've thought of it more than I.  benji, I would like to get a handle on what needs to be done next.  Do you want to do that verbally, with me as scribe, and then I can let you get back to what you were doing; or do you want to write it up?
[21:00] <benji> gary_poster: I suspect the results will be more comprehensive if we talk it out.
[21:00] <gary_poster> cool benji
[21:00] <benji> gary_poster: I have stormed the gates of juju-ui
[21:21] <hazmat> benji, i think the door was open ;-)
[21:21] <benji> heh