/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/06/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

cprofitthello everyone00:58
cprofittwe will begin the Ubuntu Friendly meeting in roughly two minutes00:58
SergioMeneseshi all!00:59
cprofitt#startmeeting ubuntu-friendly01:00
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  6 01:00:17 2013 UTC.  The chair is cprofitt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.01:00
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired01:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | ubuntu-friendly Meeting | Current topic:
cprofitt#meetingtopic welcome back01:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | welcome back Meeting | Current topic:
cprofitthello all -- and welcome to the Ubuntu Friendly meeting01:00
cprofittcan everyone that is here for the meeting just let me know you are in the room01:01
SergioMeneseso/01:02
phillwo/01:02
cprofittthanks for coming everyone01:02
cprofittour agenda is:01:02
pleia2o/01:02
cprofitthexr, wiki cleanup, how to improve parts of the Ubuntu Friendly system01:03
cprofittyour questions and any advice/ideas you all have01:03
cprofittbaloons are you here?01:03
SergioMeneses#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/Meetings01:03
cprofittalright... I might have baloons take over if he comes in, but let me tell you a bit about hexr01:04
cprofitt#meetingtopic hexr01:04
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | hexr Meeting | Current topic:
cprofitt#link https://launchpad.net/hexr01:05
cprofitthexr, from my understanding, will potentially make use of the same data Ubuntu Friendly does, but it will do so to see what harware components have been tested01:06
cprofittso it will seek to find out of a specific Nvidia card has been tested or a specific wireless card01:06
cprofittand not look at systems, but components01:07
cprofitt#link https://launchpad.net/~hexr-dev/+members#active01:07
cprofittthe developers are listed on that page01:07
cprofittI think knowing that could help Ubuntu Friendly add some more functionality to the site -- where people might be able to sort systems based on a desired video card or wireless card...01:08
cprofittfor now it is just something for us to know as we move forward01:08
cprofitt#topic wiki clean up01:09
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | hexr Meeting | Current topic: wiki clean up
cprofitthow many of you have had time to look at the wiki page for UF?01:09
cprofitt#link https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuFriendly/01:09
cprofittwould anyone  be willing to take on reviewing the pages to ensure that they are up-to-date?01:10
SergioMenesescprofitt, we can put some icons01:11
SergioMenesescprofitt, I can do it01:11
cprofitt#action SergioMeneses will review the Ubuntu Friendly wiki01:11
meetingologyACTION: SergioMeneses will review the Ubuntu Friendly wiki01:11
cprofittthanks SergioMeneses01:11
cprofittplease feel free to ask for help from others as you do that01:11
cprofittif anyone else knows of pages that need updates please let SergioMeneses or me know01:12
SergioMenesescprofitt, ok01:12
chilicuilok =)01:12
cprofitt#topic improvements01:12
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | hexr Meeting | Current topic: improvements
cprofittI know from personal experience we have some things to improve moving forward01:13
cprofittphillw: did you want to discuss some of the thoughts you had?01:13
cprofittanyone else?01:13
cprofitt#subtopic submissions01:14
phillwcprofitt: just to mention that you and laptop team are quite similar and I hope there is a good flow of informations between you both :)01:14
cprofittphillw: I would hope so as well.01:14
cprofittOne of the things that got me involved was submissions01:15
cprofittright now it is my understanding that submissions are not getting in to UF01:15
cprofittbut I am not sure why that is01:15
pleia2phillw: hm, I thought the laptop testing team was for testing Ubuntu on laptops for upcoming releases, not reporting on how well supported laptops are in current releases01:15
SergioMenesesIm totally agree with pleia2,01:16
phillwpleia2: ergo, one a release is out, that information is available to what is then the 'current' release?01:17
phillw*once*01:17
cprofittI would like to see two things done to improve in regards to submissions01:18
pleia2phillw: but it would be results for when it was in development, so maybe the graphics card for that one laptop finally did end up working once the release happened, the results would be from when it wasn't working :\01:18
pleia2for example01:18
phillwi see, I'll have a chat with the laptop team :)01:18
cprofittpleia2: I agree.. the results from pre-release could would not be invluded in Ubuntu Friendly01:18
pleia2they're both valueable and needed projects, for sure, I just thing they provide different data to different audiences01:19
pleia2s/thing/think01:19
cprofittbut the laptop testing team could, upon release, be a group of people who ran the tests for UF01:19
pleia2cprofitt: indeed!01:19
cprofittand from my understanding the database we are pulling from might actually be the same -- but with different criteria for what information is included01:20
cprofittand also differences in how it gets displayed01:20
pleia2it makes sense for both projects to test the same things01:20
cprofittbut I would need one of the developers to give me more information on that01:20
cprofittI would like to see two things done to improve in regards to submissions01:20
cprofitt1.  some system be put in place to make it easy for those submitting results to know that the results were processed01:21
cprofittif the result was invalid - let them know why01:21
cprofittas a person who has submitted results and never saw my results in UF I know how that can cause someone to lose interest in contributing01:22
pleia2+101:22
cprofitt2.  I would also want to have a group of people that could look at invalid results to ensure that how the data is being processed is accurate -- that the automated system is not makring valid results as invalid01:23
cprofittthis is particularly important as hardware changes...01:23
cprofittfailure to test a card reader when there is no such device present should not invalidate results01:23
cprofittany other comments in regards to submissions?01:24
cprofitt#subtopic checkbox01:24
cprofittthat brings me to one more idea01:25
cprofittthis one is not mine, but one that has been discussed in the qa channel01:25
cprofittthere may be a need to refine checkbox a bit to allow for a 'simple' test01:25
cprofittor in the case of hexr a test of specific hardware01:26
cprofittthe simple test would be an abbreviated test to make sure that basic things like wireless work etc.01:26
cprofittI also had cases when I tested where the automated test 'failed' itself, but I knew the device was working01:27
cprofittI think there should be some sort of mechanism for making a note of that issue built in to checkbox so that changes can be addressed with those issues01:27
cprofitthaving devices 'fail' a test when they are actually working undercuts people's faith in the process and the results.01:28
cprofittany thoughts in that area?01:28
roadmro/01:28
cprofittyes, roadmr01:28
roadmrhello! first, if an automated test fails when the device is working, that means a bug that we'd like to get fixed01:29
roadmrI understand this adds a lot of friction to things, so maybe thinking of ways to make this more effortless may be worthwhile01:29
* cprofitt nods01:29
roadmrsecond, the automated tests are in general more reliable but they are also quite valuable in high-volume environments01:29
roadmrif we assume that people can be trusted, we can potentially use manual test cases instead of automated ones that are most unreliable01:30
roadmreven so, it would be good to collect some information that can be automatically analyzed, maybe server-side01:30
roadmrthis way we can potentially re-score a submission given the raw data, even after-the-fact01:30
pleia2admittedly there is some trust to an extent already in the testing (you can hear a sound, etc)01:30
cprofittI too, would prefer to get the automated tests working... I think human interaction always introduces some potential for error01:30
roadmrthis would however introduce a "we're collecting stuff and sending it up to canonical" factor that some people don't like01:31
cprofittI do like rescoring a submission after the fact01:31
roadmrso this is an area for improvement but we always have the option of doing this manually01:31
cprofittroadmr: in this case I think the 'collecting data' part is voluntary01:31
cprofittat least with checkbox01:31
roadmrcprofitt: yes, well in order to determine what's going on, some extensive logs would need to be collected01:32
* cprofitt nods01:32
roadmrcprofitt: but keeping the user in control would be the best01:32
roadmrpleia2: hehe, we sought to remove the human factor from that by adding an automated audio_test :) so the computer listens to itself01:32
cprofittcould that be an optional part of checkbox -- that a user would opt-in to collecting additional data?01:32
roadmranyway, those are my ideas on this01:32
pleia2roadmr: does it work? I guess I haven't run it in a bit :)01:33
cprofittI appreciate the feedback and information roadmr01:33
roadmrcprofitt: sure, with the current checkbox architecture it feels a bit complex to do, but we can always change that, we should bend the tool to the needs, not the other way around01:33
roadmrpleia2: as long as you have a microphone and speakers, it works and it's very reliable01:33
pleia2nice01:33
cprofittroadmr: +1 we want to make it easy for people to collect data for this type of use -- improving user experience01:34
cprofittroadmr: do you have any insight as to why results are not getting included in to Ubuntu Friendly or is that outside of your scope?01:34
roadmrcprofitt: I have a pretty good idea why, yes01:35
cprofittcould you go a bit in to that for us?01:35
roadmrcprofitt: two components are involved in this, the first is checkbox, which runs the tests, assembles a report and pushes that to launchpad01:36
roadmrthe second is the UF website/application, which pulls the reports (submissions) from launchpad and adds the results to the friendly database (what you see in the website) - does the scoring, aggregation and such01:36
roadmrfor a submission to appear at all, it needs to contain (and pass) all tests identified as "core"01:37
roadmrthe basics for a computer to be usable, if any core tests are failed the submission will not appear in UF01:37
roadmrif it passes the "core" tests, it gets 3 stars, and any additional tests it passes increase its rating, up to 5 stars01:37
roadmra 5-star rating means that all the components we test work perfectly01:38
roadmrso why would a submission not appear?01:38
roadmrsome of the core tests are automated, and checkbox is not very good at 1) telling you one of them failed, and 2) letting you rerun/amend the results01:38
roadmrcheckbox itself has no idea of core tests, so it can't tell you "hey, your card reader didn't work and that means you won't make it into UF - please rerun this before submitting"01:39
cprofittis there currenlty anyway for a person who has submitted the test to see their submissions on launchpad?01:39
roadmrthat's one reason, the second is that since the UF website needs some love, there may have been a bit of "drift" into the tests checkbox submits and performs, the UF site has not been updated as checkbox whitelists (sets of tests to run) change01:40
roadmrthose would be the two main reasons01:40
roadmrcprofitt: there's a cryptic url that you an access to see your submissions, let me find it01:40
cprofittso, it sounds like the key is giving the user some feedback as to if their device failed a core test... and also allowing for them to resubmit01:40
roadmrcprofitt: https://launchpad.net/~/+hwdb-submissions01:40
roadmrcprofitt: yep, again, something that's a bit difficult to do with the current checkbox architecture which is very linear :( think of the difference between linear and non-linear video editing01:41
roadmrin a sense, with checkbox we can only ffwd, rewind, and look at the results at the very end01:41
* cprofitt nods01:41
roadmrwith no/little chance of going back to a specific test.01:42
cprofittexactly...01:42
cprofittit is also my understanding there is no ability to 'pause' a test and come back and pick up where you left off01:42
roadmrthere is, but it's very awkward heheh01:42
cprofittroadmr: is there currently any team that reviews the failed submissions?01:42
roadmrwhat you do basically is murder checkbox, when you restart it does its best to pick up where it left off01:43
roadmrit gives you three choices: rerun the last test, skip to the next one (in case the last test outright crashed the system), or start anew01:43
* cprofitt nods01:43
roadmrthe message is quite terse and the choices are somewhat ambiguous, so most people are/will be confused by this01:43
roadmrcprofitt: reviewing failed submissions, not really, no. It can be done but pretty much the only person who can and knows how to do it is jedimike, by looking at how the UF results importer processed a submission01:44
roadmrhe'd have more specifics on how to do it, but it's done on an ad-hoc basis01:44
cprofittroadmr: thanks01:45
roadmrnp :)01:45
cprofittI asked because I saw that as part of the launchpad team description01:45
cprofittdoes anyone else have any questions for roadmr?01:45
cprofittI would like to set an initial priority for the team moving forward01:46
cprofittI think that we have two high value items01:46
cprofitt1.  Improving the UF website process so that there is some feedback to the person who submitted the system as to the fact the results were processed but failed01:47
cprofitt2.  Documenting the current process - so others can understand it as we start to look at improving it01:47
cprofittare there any other items people see?01:47
cprofittroadmr: would you be willing to procude a flow chart of what you described that we could them use on the wiki?01:48
cprofittjust a rough outline of how the process currently flows?01:48
roadmrcprofitt: sure01:49
roadmrcprofitt: there's some documentation (an outline plus more detailed links) here: https://friendly.ubuntu.com/what-is-ubuntu-friendly/01:49
cprofitt#action roadmr will produce a flow chart of the current process01:49
meetingologyACTION: roadmr will produce a flow chart of the current process01:49
cprofitt#vote agree that improving feedback on submissions is important in moving foward01:49
meetingologyPlease vote on: agree that improving feedback on submissions is important in moving foward01:49
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)01:49
cprofitt+101:49
meetingology+1 received from cprofitt01:49
roadmr+1 definitely heh01:50
meetingology+1 definitely heh received from roadmr01:50
chilicuil+101:50
meetingology+1 received from chilicuil01:50
SergioMeneses+101:50
meetingology+1 received from SergioMeneses01:50
cprofittpleia2: ?01:50
cprofittphillw: ?01:50
phillw+101:50
meetingology+1 received from phillw01:50
phillwsorry wasnm't sure if i was to vote :)01:51
cprofitt#endvote01:51
meetingologyVoting ended on: agree that improving feedback on submissions is important in moving foward01:51
meetingologyVotes for:5 Votes against:0 Abstentions:001:51
meetingologyMotion carried01:51
cprofittI think for now we should move towards that; after we get that feedback improved we need to look to make some improvements to checkbox as roadmr mentioned01:52
cprofittany other topics, questions or thoughts?01:52
roadmro/01:52
cprofittyes, roadmr01:52
SergioMeneseswhen is our next meeting?01:53
roadmrhehe, one thing that we *can* potentially do with current checkbox is make it submit directly to a (possibly updated) UF application, so feedback is quicker01:53
roadmrthis needs writing a "plugin" and an accompanying web application, so it would need some coordination01:53
cprofitt+1 roadmr that should be explored01:53
roadmrwe're still on time to make that happen before Ubuntu Feature Freeze, but we'd have to start working soon01:53
* cprofitt nods01:54
roadmrideally we sould ask jedimike if there's a way to submit directly to the UF application, because we may not have a lot of manpower to come up with a new one01:54
roadmrsould/should01:54
cprofittSergioMeneses: I would like us to meet again in two weeks -- I think to be fair to some of the UTC01:54
roadmrthat may be a quick way to reduce the decoupling between submission and actual result processing01:54
cprofittfolks we should have the meeting earlier; though that would require a different person to chair the meeting01:55
SergioMenesesperfect01:55
cprofittroadmr: I know jedimike has spoken to me about that so I will try to touch bases with him about that01:55
cprofittare any of you in the UTC 0/+1 TZ?01:55
phillw'im on utc01:57
cprofittalright... I will send a message to the list and see if I can get a person in that TZ to chair a meeting.01:57
roadmrcprofitt: I'm EST (UTC-5)01:57
cprofittphillw: would you be willing to chair a meeting on the 19th?01:57
cprofittroadmr: I am on your TZ as well01:57
phillwI can if no one steps forward :)01:57
SergioMenesesIm UTC-501:57
cprofittphillw: ok, I will send the request to the list and you will be the fall back01:57
cprofitt#action next meeting February 19th UTC 17:00 - cprofitt will send a message to the list to get a chair01:58
meetingologyACTION: next meeting February 19th UTC 17:00 - cprofitt will send a message to the list to get a chair01:58
phillwwhat time on 19th are you thinking of?01:58
phillwyeah, 1700 utc would be okay if no one steps forward.01:59
SergioMeneses17 utc01:59
* cprofitt nods01:59
cprofittyes, SergioMeneses so noon our time01:59
SergioMenesescprofitt, it's not problem for me01:59
cprofittthanks SergioMeneses phillw pleia2 chilicuil roadmr for attending. I think this has been very productive for an initial start01:59
cprofitt#endmeeting02:00
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  6 02:00:04 2013 UTC.02:00
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-01.00.moin.txt02:00
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-01.00.html02:00
pleia2thanks for chairing :)02:00
phillwthanks for chairing02:00
SergioMenesescprofitt, thanks to you02:00
chilicuilI'm looking forward for helping out, I'll see you in the ml =)02:00
cprofittchilicuil: thanks02:00
cprofittthanks again everyone02:00
phillwI'm off to bed! 2am here :)02:01
SergioMenesesphillw, good night02:01
cprofittnight phillw02:01
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* slangasek waves16:01
slangasek#startmeeting16:02
meetingologyMeeting started Wed Feb  6 16:02:03 2013 UTC.  The chair is slangasek. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.16:02
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired16:02
jodho/16:02
slangasek[TOPIC] Lightning round16:02
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Lightning round
slangasek$ echo $(shuf -e barry doko stgraber jodh ev bdmurray slangasek ogra cjwatson xnox stokachu)16:02
slangasekbarry bdmurray ogra slangasek doko cjwatson stokachu ev xnox jodh stgraber16:02
barrywin!16:02
barryvarious ue sprint tasks.  file debian bugs 699491 and 699498 (adding -OO to py{,3}compile).  more possibly to come there.  reviewed stokachu's pytz merge and eventually syncpackaged it (bug 1116418).  submitted branch for bug 1112496, with updates to come.  worked on py3 whoosh and reached out to debian maintainer.  various upstream pypi security discussions.16:02
ubottuDebian bug 699491 in python-defaults "pycompile: Support -OO to suppress docstrings in .pyo files" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/69949116:02
ubottuDebian bug 699498 in python3-defaults "python3-defaults: Support -OO to suppress docstrings in .pyo files" [Wishlist,Open] http://bugs.debian.org/69949816:02
ubottubug 1116418 in python-tz (Ubuntu) "Sync python-tz 2012c-1 (main) from Debian unstable (main)" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111641816:02
ubottubug 1112496 in python-imaging (Ubuntu Raring) "python-imaging broken in raring" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111249616:02
barry* foundations-r-python33: done.16:02
barry* foundations-r-python3-oauth: bug 1077094 marked invalid as the package is going away.  bug 1077087 bug 1077089 and bug 1077092 branches in various states of review.16:03
ubottubug 1077094 in ubuntuone-couch "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107709416:03
ubottubug 1077087 in Ubuntu Single Sign On Client "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107708716:03
ubottubug 1077089 in Ubuntu One Client "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107708916:03
ubottubug 1077092 in Ubuntu One storage protocol "Switch from python-oauth to python-oauthlib" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/107709216:03
barry* foundations-r-python-versions: new python-imaging (pillow) package provides py3 support, but see above bugs for backward compatibility fixes needed.   in conversations about software-center and session-installer re: wtf to do about python-xapian.  we may not be able to replace it  :(16:03
barrydone.16:03
bdmurrayfailed to recreate nexus7 bug 109273416:03
bdmurrayworked on an upstart job to watch for an hp printer to replace update-notifier job16:03
ubottubug 1092734 in ubuntu-nexus7 "Software updater crashes, cannot update software graphically." [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109273416:03
bdmurrayremoved unused firmware paths from uevent.c in update-notifier16:03
bdmurrayinvestigation into bug 1112496 (since comix doesn't work :-()16:03
ubottubug 1112496 in python-imaging (Ubuntu Raring) "python-imaging broken in raring" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111249616:03
bdmurrayinvestigation into and testing of bug 109602216:03
bdmurrayremoved running-unity tag from the ubuntu general apport hook and upstream apport16:03
ubottubug 1096022 in update-manager (Ubuntu) ""E:Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks" during lucid->precise universe upgrade of amd64" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/109602216:03
bdmurrayverified P SRU for bug 98427616:03
ubottubug 984276 in casper (Ubuntu Quantal) "installing casper on a non live system causes update-initramfs to fail" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98427616:03
bdmurraybug triage of update-manager bugs with ubuntu-release-upgrade-core symptom16:03
bdmurrayimproved the speed at which the user parameter works at errors16:04
bdmurrayresovled an issue on errors where + in package names and versions wasn't being encoded for using in a url16:04
bdmurrayworked on bucketsystems column family code16:04
bdmurraycreated a new canonistack environment for errors since my previous one had died16:04
bdmurraytested and modified bucketsystems column family code in canonistack16:04
bdmurrayblueprint wise I am working on foundations-r-phased-updates16:04
bdmurray✔ done16:04
ogra_done:16:04
ogra_ * various nx7 bugfixes16:04
ogra_ * worked with kernel team and diwic to make sound work on boot on the nx716:04
ogra_ * worked with kernel team to quieten the massive dmesg noise the interactive governor causes16:04
ogra_ * held UDW talk about image build infrastructure (will start a wikipage with the notes as base for proper build system documentation)#16:04
ogra_ * hunting down livefs breakage (again)16:04
ogra_todo:16:05
ogra_ * port nx7 images to xz compression16:05
ogra_ * discuss livefs builder situation with infinity (carried over from last week, blocked on builder)16:05
ogra_ * fix plymouth vs console-setup racing somehow16:05
ogra_done16:05
slangasekbarry: not able to replace python-xapian - hmm, have new requirements emerged, or are the alternatives proving to be inadequate?16:05
slangasekbdmurray: planning to upload that new update-notifier upstart job soon?16:06
barryslangasek: probably a conversation to have a bit later ;)16:06
slangasekxnox: speaking of which, is usb-creator getting an upload with the fixed job that's in bzr?16:07
infinityogra_: It's been pointed out that, if you plan to use xz, depending on pxz and using that might make things slightly less painful.16:07
xnoxslangasek: yes. today.16:07
slangasekxnox: yay :)16:07
ogra_infinity, like ... being able to use it on the panda itself ?16:07
bdmurrayslangasek: well, I thought it should really go in hplip and haven't heard from til, additionally waiting for the user session work seems fine.16:08
infinityogra_: Yeah.  It'll still be slower than gzip, but potentially acceptably so.16:08
ogra_infinity, what holds me back from the switch is that i have to re-work so much stuff for it on both sides if i want nusakan to do xz16:08
slangasekbdmurray: ah, ok16:08
ogra_infinity, great, i'll try it then16:08
infinityogra_: Easy enough to take your rootfs tarball and do some local testing on a Panda.16:08
ogra_yep16:08
infinityogra_: See if you can find a sweet spot.16:08
ogra_after i fixed the installer from being completely unusable16:09
slangasekogra_: hunting down livefs breakage> are things currently broken, or currently working?16:09
* ogra_ notes cjwatson isnt iun -desktop 16:09
ogra_slangasek, not working since we dropped a tar option16:09
ogra_i just heard about it now16:09
slangasekogra_: hmm. eta for fix?16:09
ogra_well, worst case i can roll that back immediately and we lose some memory gains cjwatson introduced16:10
infinityogra_: Err, wait.  What?  The dropping of the tar option from the installer?16:10
xnoxac100-tarball-installer that is16:10
infinityogra_: How did that "break" the livefs?16:10
ogra_infinity, droppiing of -m seems to make tar crazy16:10
slangasek * systemd packaging: slow progress16:11
slangasek * ovmf packaging nearly done; edk2 is clearly not structured with distributions in mind16:11
slangasek * reviewing UbuntuKylin package submissions; will mail the TB to ask this to be an official flavor as soon as the core set is accepted16:11
ogra_i havent digged deeper yet (or seen it myself)... i know about it since the meeting started :P16:11
slangasek(done)16:11
infinityogra_: Is there a bug or any sort of analysis?16:11
xnoxwell it worked without -m, but not "without -m and adding --warning=no-timestamp" or so the report says.16:11
ogra_infinity, only chat in #ubuntu-desktop yet16:11
slangasekdoko: your turn16:13
doko- fix ftbfs for older gcc releases (changed kernel headers, missing struct siginfo)16:13
doko- llvm/clang updates16:13
doko- upload pillow for python316:13
doko- openjdk security update16:13
doko- FOSDEM16:13
doko(done)16:13
dokowill follow-up on FOSDEM later16:13
ogra_slangasek, oh, the "hunting down livefs breakage" from my report was supposed to be "hunting down livefs builder breakage" its unrelated to the current issue16:14
ogra_(was just a coincident that you asked while i was told its broken :) )16:14
slangasekah, cjwatson is off this afternoon, so stokachu:16:15
stokachuok16:15
slangasekogra_: hmm!16:15
stokachuFollowed up bug 1052038, awaits verification16:15
ubottubug 1052038 in eCryptfs "ecryptfs_fnek_sig missing when login at the same time on cron session close" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/105203816:16
stokachuNeed a little more information on bug 923876 if we are planning on applying this to precise and quantal? Or whats the overall consensus on removing old kernels on a system during upgrades?16:16
ubottubug 923876 in apt (Ubuntu) "FR: Limit and clean-up kernel images and headers automatically in LTS" [Wishlist,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/92387616:16
stokachuDid my first sync package request though im not sure how to tell if I got credit for the request or not other than looking at the bug itself.16:16
stokachu(done)16:16
ogra_slangasek, the builder was off for two days again this week ... thanks to elmo and infinity its back in business though16:16
xnoxstokachu: https://launchpad.net/~adam-stokes/+synchronised-packages16:17
ogra_(it seems to always die on saturdays ... probably going out to party on weekends or so )16:17
stokachuxnox: ah ok sweet16:17
infinityogra_: It's probably just cause it can't count: http://sourceware.org/ml/glibc-cvs/2013-q1/msg00115.html16:17
ubottusourceware.org bug 2013 in libc "memccpy() gives inconsistent results on mmapped files" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]16:17
ogra_oha16:17
ogra_"Fix the value of TWO"16:17
stokachuxnox: there we go :D16:18
ogra_it couls just count one by one then :P16:18
ogra_*could16:18
stokachure: apt removing older kernels is starting to make its way through internally so any thoughts on that would be appreciated16:18
infinitystokachu: Oh, crap.  So, yeah.  I was meant to backport the apt stuff last week, and got distracted by other work.16:19
infinitystokachu: I can still do that today, and maybe Colin will accept it.16:20
ev- Feedback to Martin's code review of the grouped reports branch of apport.16:20
ev  This, if you don't recall, is for showing system internal errors as part of16:20
ev  the next regular application error.16:20
ev- Code review for Brian.16:20
ev- Wrote a tool to bootstrap the postgres database for local copies of Errors.16:20
ev- Taught the prodstack-prep branches to talk to Swift natively when running on16:20
ev  canonistack/prodstack.16:20
ev- Added the bulk of the Canonical engineering teams to the ACL for stacktrace16:20
ev  access on errors.ubuntu.com. Added code to Errors and the prodstack charms to16:20
ev  manage further additions to the ACL with minimal code changes.16:20
ev- Big improvements to the average errors per calendar day graph over the16:20
ev  weekend. The text for the milestones and dates finally all fits. We now also16:20
ev  set the domain to (0, 0.4) so the difference between 12.04 and 12.10 should16:20
ev  be much more discernable. There's a few more improvements to be made that16:20
ev  I'll fit in while other work compiles or in the evening. I've also cleaned up16:20
ev  the call stack representation in the most common problems table.16:20
ev- More fixes to whoopsie. Trying to get a new build out, but the tests are16:20
ev  failing only in sbuild due to leaks detected by valgrind. Fixed one already,16:20
ev  so this new memcheck test addition is already proving useful.16:20
ev  - If we can move the connectivity check and inotify watch into upstart, we16:20
ev    save about 0.8 MB of memory in whoopsie (though admittedly whoopsie no16:20
ev    longer runs all the time and its memory usage becomes less important).16:20
ev  - Not pulling in CURL takes us down to running in 200K, but we kind of need16:20
ev    that :). I suspect its the SSL stuff taking up the lion's share.16:20
ev- More fixes to the prodstack charms. JuanJo is making good headway on getting16:20
ev  these deployed to stagingstack.16:20
ev  - Trying to build the universe to get a recent version of python-swiftclient16:20
ev    working in precise.16:20
ev(done)16:20
stokachuinfinity: ok no worries i was just pinged internally about this yesterday so its not really heating up yet and your confirmation of it is good enough16:20
stokachuthanks16:21
xnox* Short week due to Fosdem Fri-Mon16:21
xnox  - loads of people met and conversations held16:21
xnox  - everyone is talking about aarch6416:21
xnox  - everyone is waiting for aarch64 hw16:21
xnox  - interesting talks on init systems & [e]udev16:21
xnox  - keysigning...16:21
xnox.16:21
xnox* Last week, poked pyo optimisation with barry a little.16:21
xnox  I want to run one last test (i think i didn't have everything16:21
xnox  without docstrings), but it looks likes on currently idle python16:21
xnox  processes there isn't much ram savings.16:21
xnox* Also gave a talk on making/fixing packages to cross-build. Need to16:21
xnox  convert to blog post / packaging guide section.16:21
xnox.16:21
xnox* Precise:16:21
stokachuinfinity: will this be for quantal and precise?16:21
xnox  Uploaded SRU for 2 clustered LVM issues. Not critical for 12.04.2 as16:21
xnox  clvm is not on the server cds. bug #833368 and bug #988881 .16:21
xnox.16:21
ubottubug 833368 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Precise) "clustered lvm commands fail with "activation/monitoring=0 is incompatible with clustered Volume Group" error" [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/83336816:21
xnox* foundations-r-arm-usb-creator-fastboot-support:16:21
ubottubug 988881 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Precise) "/etc/init.d/clvm status exitcode always 0" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/98888116:21
xnox  udisks2 backend created a few sticks now. Porting/Testing last16:21
xnox  pieces in the -helper and then we can drop udisks from CD.16:21
xnox.16:21
xnox* foundations-r-software-raid16:22
xnox  mdadm initial merge ready, should upload by the end of the week.16:22
xnox(done)16:22
infinitystokachu: That's the general plan.16:22
jodh* blueprints16:22
stokachuok sounds good16:22
jodh  - foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements:16:22
jodh    - Merged lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/setenv+getenv.16:22
jodh    - Finished and raised MP for lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/event-prefixes.16:22
jodh    - Wrote and raised MP on16:22
stokachuill relay that information16:22
jodh      lp:~jamesodhunt/upstart/remove-initctl-job+instance-options16:22
jodh    - Working on upstart shutdown.16:22
jodh  - foundations-r-upstart-roadmap: no progress16:22
jodh  - foundations-r-arm-ubiquity: no progress16:22
jodh* other:16:22
jodh  - FOSDEM 2013 (away Fri-Mon)16:22
jodh  - MP for restarting Upstart on libjson0 upgrade16:22
jodh    https://code.launchpad.net/~jamesodhunt/ubuntu/raring/json-c/restart-upstart/+merge/14686816:22
jodh16:22
jodh 16:22
slangasekbah, ok, this is the second time since upgrading this machine to raring that the desktop has completely locked up for minutes at a time... not even the cursor moves16:23
slangasekanybody else seeing this?16:23
stgraberFeature work:16:23
stgraber - Upstart (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-upstart-user-session-enhancements)16:23
stgraber  - No progress done last week, planning on testing it this week.16:23
stgraber - Container (BLUEPRINT: servercloud-r-lxc)16:23
stgraber  - libseccomp was promoted to main16:23
stgraber  - Worked on a fix for bug 111382116:23
ubottubug 1113821 in libvirt (Ubuntu Raring) "libvirt-bin deletes /etc/dnsmasq.d/libvirt-bin on upgrade" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/111382116:23
stgraber  - Code reviews.16:23
stgraber  - Preparing 0.9~alpha3 to be released next week.16:23
stgraber  - Discussed plan for container/security/lxc micro-conference at LPC201316:23
barryslangasek: nope.  what h/w do you have?16:23
stgraber - Networking (BLUEPRINT: foundations-r-networking)16:23
stgraber  - Still waiting on test results for the infiniband support, no other progress there.16:23
stgraberOther work:16:23
stgraber - Networking16:23
stgraber  - Spent quite a bit of time getting Ofono to work with NetworkManager, slowly getting there.16:23
stgraber    (glib + gobject + dbus in NM can be the source of rather bad headaches...)16:23
stgraber - QATracker16:23
slangasekstokachu: on the apt kernel autoremoval, I thought we already did backport that to precise+quantal, no?16:23
stgraber  - Helped setup some other internal instances of the tracker.16:23
stgraber - Meetings/Talks16:23
stgraber  - Had an Ubuntu Development Hangout yesterday16:24
stgraber  - Will have an LXC IRC meeting tomorrow to present the user namespace work and discuss some of the next steps.16:24
stgraberTODO:16:24
stgraber - Continue the ofono/NM work.16:24
stgraber - Try to finish any LXC feature work for this cycle (1 item left).16:24
stgraber - Prepare some upstart user session debs with all our patches and the initial Xsession scripts and upstart jobs.16:24
stgraber(DONE)16:24
stokachuslangasek: ill double check but tmk it wasn't16:25
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_aw
stgraberif it was, it's not working ;)16:25
* stgraber had to manually wipe a few kernels on a dozen machine over the weekend to clear some space in /boot16:25
* barry too16:26
bdmurrayheh, me too!16:26
bdmurrayjust one machine though16:26
* xnox currently has 9 kernels on my machine in raring.... i thought i should have less.16:28
slangasekbarry: hw> standard intel mobile graphics, I forget the model16:28
* ogra_ has 12 on precise16:29
slangasekheh, ok - and infinity 'fessed up that it's still on his todo, so16:29
* slangasek gets to the bottom of scrollback finally16:30
stgraberslangasek: if that's your x201, then it's first gen i7 graphics (Arrandale chipset with Ironlake graphics, product id 0046)16:30
slangasekyeah, that ;)16:30
=== Tonio_aw is now known as Tonio__
infinityxnox: Before you go manually doing anything to those kernels, talk to me out of band.16:30
slangasekso there seem to be two entangled problems here16:30
xnoxinfinity: ack. My install is not typical by any means, so it could be of my wrong doing.16:31
barryslangasek: i've got a radeon16:31
slangasekone is that firefox is helpfully using 100% of a CPU; the other is that X is using 100% of a CPU and not responding interactively16:31
slangasekI guess I should file a critical bug, when I can get back to the desktop16:31
xnoxstgraber: do you want to help out specing a machine for me?! =)16:31
ogra_you should definitely get more cores then ... one per app or so16:32
slangasek[TOPIC] work item16:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: work item
slangasek[TOPIC] work items16:32
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: work items
slangasekogra_: X already has a core to itself, it's not doing anything *useful* with it :P16:32
ogra_heh16:32
stgraberxnox: hehe, I just happen to have used a pretty much identical laptop to slangasek's for the past two years and had some X problems in the past ;)16:33
slangasekso I was going to pull up some numbers to see how we're all doing individually wrt the burndown trend line16:33
slangasekbut with my laptop being coy, those numbers are currently not at my fingertips16:33
stgraberxnox: now I'm on a x230 with a different set of problem (mostly caused by me only using displayport displays which apparently nobody does...)16:33
slangasekinstead, I'll just say that you should all be checking your personal status.ubuntu.com page and making sure that you are below the trendline, as of *today*16:34
slangasekif you aren't, that doesn't mean you need to work overtime, it means you need to talk to me to figure out what we need to postpone or move around on the team16:34
slangasekthe team's burndown is above the line, and realistically, we're going to be seeing demands on our time for work not shown on that chart (i.e., work to support the mobile effort)16:34
slangasekso we need to get our priorities squared away wrt the stuff from UDS, so that people know what we are actually delivering this cycl16:35
slangaseke16:35
slangasekany questions?16:35
stgraberslangasek: not sure if that also impacts the team's trendline, but I have 10 Edubuntu work items in my personal chart which if ignored makes me below the trendline16:35
barryslangasek: do in progress count? :)16:35
slangasekalso, note that even with everyone on the team down below the trendline, we'll be above the trendline for the team as a whole because of workitems on our blueprints that are assigned to people not on the team16:36
dokotex-common at version 3.15? that looks wrong ...16:36
evshould we add workitems for things that have come up? For example, I wasn't expecting to do all this prodstack stuff.16:36
slangasekso if you're the assignee for a blueprint that has external workitems, please be sure to check with those folks on how they're doing and if they'll still deliver this cycle16:37
slangasekev: no, burndown charts shouldn't be an exercise in paperwork to make us look productive :)16:37
slangasekbarry: no ;)16:37
infinitydoko: Wrong, how?16:37
* xnox ponders what to do with Low and Undefined priority specs which was mostly community/nice-to-haves16:37
slangasekstgraber: it does impact the team's trendline, but I'll mentally subtract16:37
dokodoesn't approach Pi anymore16:38
infinityHahaha.16:38
slangasekstgraber: so don't worry about faking up the state just to make the trendline happy16:38
xnoxinfinity: it's not hahaha, but a real problem. it should never been 3.15.16:38
stgraberslangasek: good ;)16:38
infinitydoko: There's a 4.xx in experimental, if you really want to be sad about the versions inflating.16:38
xnox /o\ did TeX community go crazy?!16:38
slangasekxnox: realistically, they should probably be postponed; if you run out of todo work items early, you can always rescue them from the postponed pile16:39
slangasekany other qs?16:39
slangasek[TOPIC] Bugs16:40
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Bugs
slangasekbdmurray: what news?16:40
bdmurrayI believe this is our top error at the moment16:40
bdmurrayhttps://errors.ubuntu.com/bucket/?id=/usr/bin/apturl-gtk:AttributeError:parseArgs:parse:%3Cmodule%3E:main:parseArgs16:40
stgraberoh nice, .decode() on a python3 string, that won't quite work ;)16:41
xnoxbdmurray: so we should check latest apt-urls posted on OMGubuntu to find the culprit =)16:42
barryouch ;)16:42
xnoxev: we don't have server side hooks yet to query what sting is failing?!16:42
bdmurray  16:43
bdmurray/usr/bin/python3 /usr/bin/apturl-gtk /home/whoever/Downloads/MediaPlayerClassic_RocketFuelInstaller (1).exe16:43
evxnox: I am but one man, busy getting everything ready for the cloud.16:43
bdmurrayI guess we could look at the proccmdlines?16:43
barryis the str.decode() bug filed?16:44
xnoxev: True. prodstack is a lot of "prod" in it.16:44
bdmurraybarry: no16:44
ev:)16:44
bdmurrayoh, maybe its because apturl is being used with local files?16:44
slangasekoh this is special16:45
slangasekkillall -9 firefox, and it keeps going16:45
ogra_lovely16:45
barryslangasek: i saw a lot of ineffective kill -9s on the nexus16:45
ogra_sudo harder :)16:45
xnoxbdmurray: not quite. it looks like some browser extension went crazy cause all files are (a) local (b) in download or .cache locations16:45
slangasekbarry: !16:45
ogra_barry, bug # ?16:45
ogra_:)16:45
slangaseksounds like we need to file a critical bug against the kernel for that, too16:46
ogra_nx7 is a different kernel though16:46
xnoxbdmurray: but apt-url should handle that fine, but it won't help if browser has now defaulted to open everything with apt-url instead of other mime-handlers.16:46
barryyeah, you know which kernel i'm talkin' 'bout.   i wasn't shaving the yak that day though16:46
ogra_(which doesnt say much, might be present since before the nx7 kernel, who knows)16:46
stgraberwell, kill -9 can be ineffective if the process is stuck in I/O wait (D state)16:46
stgrabernow the source of the I/O wait is usually the bug (and in some cases it's a kernel bug)16:47
bdmurrayxnox: you seem to be knowledgeable about this and in a good position to look at...16:47
slangasekstgraber: it's not in I/O wait, it's actively consuming my CPU16:47
xnoxbdmurray: ok. I'll chat with -desktop folks and try to investigate it.16:48
stgraberslangasek: hmm, ok, that's really special then ;)16:48
slangasekxnox: assign the bug to yourself?16:48
slangasek(er, if there is a bug yet)16:48
=== Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_aw
slangasekbdmurray: any other bugs/crashes you're worried about?16:49
bdmurrayev: oh maybe there should a create bug link on the bucket page16:49
evbdmurray: yes, definitely16:49
bdmurrayev: because you'd have to go to ?package=apturl and then find the right bucket16:49
bdmurrayslangasek: the rls r tracking bugs are looking a bit long16:50
bdmurraythere are 3 critical ones16:50
bdmurraybug 106648016:50
ubottubug 1066480 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Installer doesn't show encrypted partitions" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106648016:50
bdmurraybug 101379816:50
ubottubug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Raring) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/101379816:50
slangasekbdmurray: sorry, can you pass the link to the report too?16:50
bdmurrayhttp://reqorts.qa.ubuntu.com/reports/rls-mgr/rls-r-tracking-bug-tasks.html16:50
bdmurrayand bug 108406316:51
ubottubug 1084063 in ubuntu-defaults-nexus7 (Ubuntu Raring) "plymouth in raring causes system hardlock if console_setup is not run in the initramfs on nexus7 prior to starting plymouthd" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108406316:51
ogra_yeah, thats a bad one, i think colin took a look but we didnt talk about it yet16:53
slangasek1084063 is already on ogra's todo list, AIUI16:53
ogra_yeah16:53
slangasekstokachu: any luck with bug #1013798?16:53
ubottubug 1013798 in libgcrypt11 (Ubuntu Raring) "Blink SIP client segfaults with libgcrypt11 1.5.0-3ubuntu0.1" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/101379816:53
slangasekxnox: can you take bug #1066480?16:53
ubottubug 1066480 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "Installer doesn't show encrypted partitions" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/106648016:53
xnoxbug 1066480 is on me. but can be worked on post ff.16:53
xnoxThe solution is to correctly try and call existing partman-crypto api call that colin pointed out to me previously.16:54
* slangasek assigns16:54
bdmurrayI looked at some of the ubiquity ones yesterday and also noticed that bug 1080701 is still getting regular metoos16:55
ubottubug 1080701 in ubiquity (Ubuntu Raring) "After 'Preparing to install Ubuntu' screen, raring installation hangs" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/108070116:55
slangasekalready assigned to xnox - are you missing any information to be able to work on that one?16:55
xnoxbdmurray: there are two hang fixes in os-prober I uploaded. Which needs to be uploaded as part of ubiquity.16:56
xnoxit is random for me and I cannot reliable reproduce it with debugging on to see what hangs.16:56
slangasek[TOPIC] AOB16:57
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: AOB
slangasekanything else to discuss?16:57
slangasek#endmeeting16:58
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Wed Feb  6 16:58:46 2013 UTC.16:58
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-16.02.moin.txt16:58
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-06-16.02.html16:58
slangasekthanks everyone!16:58
ogra_thanks !16:58
barrythanks!16:58
jodhthanks16:58
* slangasek goes back to kicking this krazy kernel16:59
* barry reboots his world17:00
* ogra_ goes to give the cat her daily shot (worst part of my day)17:00
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