[00:01]  * redtape-renegade has earned a rollie break .. BRBack ..
[00:02] <daftykins> honestly i really don't think you can do that
[00:03] <daftykins> the description even says: "But it is not a bi-directional adapter. It won't pass signal from VGA to DisplayPort. "
[00:04] <redtape-renegade> oh Ok then .. I'm disappointed that my lego skills have failed me ..
[00:04] <daftykins> ^_^
[00:04]  * redtape-renegade smokes on ...
[00:05] <daftykins> because VGA is analog you need something to actively process the video and spit out digital y'see
[00:06] <redtape-renegade> Yeah, I did get carried away abit ..
[00:07] <redtape-renegade> The reason is ..
[00:11] <redtape-renegade> While I was using Ubuntu on my main computer with 4 displayport adapters, At start-up when I first Logged on all the screen flashed with Ubuntu for 2 seconds (even showing the cursor moving on other/any screens) .. Then it just goes to the middle one .. as if to say .. Yes , we can do it , but your not a 'developer' so well just give you the 'basic' option and leave you with one as opposed to 3 or four. For a second or two  was in 'Ubuntu -ALL OF THE 
[00:13] <redtape-renegade> .. I blame the fanta I'm on tonight ..
[00:13] <daftykins> ;)
[00:17] <redtape-renegade> Anyway .. it's getting late .. & I'm errano-ly off topic, So I best quit whilst I have dignity ...
[00:17] <redtape-renegade> bye for now daftykins.
[00:17] <daftykins> later o/
[08:24] <jacobw> morning
[08:31] <popey> morning
[08:33] <dwatkins> morning
[08:46] <daubers> Morning
[08:46] <kvarley> First Ubuntu phones by October! \0/ http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/first-ubuntu-phone-available-october-says-shuttleworth
[08:46] <kvarley> daubers: \0
[08:47] <popey> ☺
[08:59] <kvarley> I've just staged some files using git cola, is there a way I can unstage them?
[08:59] <kvarley> I haven't pushed yet but realised I made a mistake on the commit message
[09:02] <kvarley> Ah, I can reset it via command line but it'll wipe my changes
[09:03] <hoover> hi folks
[09:07] <bigcalm> popey: AlanBell: czajkowski: ping
[09:08] <hoover> Hey biggie!
[09:08] <bigcalm> Hi hoover. Are you keeping well?
[09:08] <hoover> Yep, of sorts I guess. Yourself?
[09:08] <bigcalm> Over worked but keeping it together I think :)
[09:09] <czajkowski> ello....
[09:11] <AlanBell> hi bigcalm
[09:12] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :-D
[09:14] <popey> bigcalm: hmm?
[09:16] <bigcalm> Where's christel? Haven't seen her about for a while
[09:18] <czajkowski> not on irc as busy
[09:22] <mungbean> libreoffice 4 out :D
[09:22] <mungbean> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/4.0
[09:25] <hoover> Hey JamesTait
[09:25] <JamesTait> hoover, o/
[09:25] <hoover> I'm currently fighting a 200gb myisam Mariadb database
[09:25] <hoover> not fun 8(
[09:27] <JamesTait> I'm making sure Facebook didn't break anything for us with their monthly breaking changes (looks like it's all fine) before resuming work on simplifying part of our test suite.
[09:28] <JamesTait> The sucker punch is that after being up late last night working on it, I discover this morning that we have no coffee in the house. :(
[09:35] <Laney> sounds like you need a coffee subscription ^o)
[09:37]  * popey hugs Laney 
[09:39] <Laney> el popey
[09:39]  * Laney plays some flamenco
[09:39] <Laney> dear god what is happening to my laptop?
[09:40] <Laney> load average: 19.10, 14.43, 9.63
[09:41]  * popey puts bets on syncdaemon
[09:41] <Laney> nothing is chewing cpu
[09:42] <Laney> it's something to do with io
[09:42] <Laney> oh god ...
[09:42] <popey> \o/ dots
[09:42] <Laney> REBOOT TIME
[09:43]  * Laney watches sudo reboot fail to do anything
[09:44] <Laney> well this is disturbing
[09:44] <popey> Azelphur: seen CS:Source is now working on Linux ;)
[10:08] <jacobw> what's the shortest way to licence my program as GPL?
[10:09] <jacobw> i don't want a comment block in my code with the full disclaimer
[10:09] <mungbean> any reason why ubuntu encrypted install crashes on kvm during install?
[10:09] <mungbean> had to use 9.10 and upgrade all the way
[10:10] <SuperMatt> there's no way to upgrade all the way in one step, is there?
[10:11] <popey> mungbean: not enough information
[10:11] <popey> jacobw: there's a small block http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-howto.html
[10:12] <mungbean> installing ubuntu 12.04 server as a VM  on kvm , choose encryped disk during the alternate cli installer, install crashes
[10:12] <popey> at what point?
[10:12] <popey> there's an install log which can be extracted
[10:14] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[10:14] <popey> Hi
[10:15] <brobostigon> morning popey'ness
[10:16] <Laney> pey'ness /me sniggers
[10:18] <popey> get back in your slanket, Lane.
[10:20] <Laney> had the heating on this morning :( :( :(
[10:21] <jacobw> popey: thanks
[10:24] <mungbean> popey: turns out its not an installer issue as i've been told that sometimes the install completes and the machine randomly crashes after that
[10:24] <popey> delightful
[10:24] <mungbean> i'm going to let them fanny around exploring that one
[10:26] <brobostigon> cool, just got the latest k9-mail build, and it finally has a threaded view, of a kind.
[10:39] <einonm> I'm looking at filling in one of those ubuntu wiki profile home page things - is there a template for one somewhere?
[10:40] <Darael> At this point, I have two images of a 750G hard drive on one 1T drive.
[10:45] <popey> einonm: just use someone elses page ☺
[10:46] <einonm> popey: thanks. Well volunteered :) I was hoping to avoid having to delete someone else's waffling before adding my own
[10:47] <popey> hah
[10:47] <popey> make sure you copy my amazon wishlist onto your page ;)
[10:48] <directhex> is the "featured linux games" pane on the front of steampowered.com new?
[10:49] <Darael> directhex: FSVO "new", certainly (I have no idea *what* V, of course).
[10:49] <popey> yes, not seen that before
[10:50] <directhex> i'm not sure about steamdb's "confirmed working" list - supposedly defcon works, but not for me
[10:55] <Adriannom> hi.  i have an nvidia geforce 7300 gs which i can't seem to get working with the nvidia drivers.  i've googled loads but nothing helped.  i have nvidia-current installed and my display is fixed at 800x600 or lower.  when i load nvidia-settings i get "You do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver.  Please edit your X configuration file (just run `nvidia-xconfig` as root), and restart the X server." - which i do, bu
[10:55] <Adriannom> t it doesn't stop the error message.  anyone know anything i can try?
[10:56] <popey> Adriannom: 7300 is a bit "old" by modern standards, I suspect the "unified" (hah) driver doesn't support it
[10:56] <popey> maybe one of the older ones does
[10:56] <popey> and we've installed the wrong one
[10:57] <Adriannom> 173 starts me up in safe mode, rather than just giving me 800x600
[10:57] <Adriannom> though why current doesn't put me into safe mode if i'm not using the driver i don't know?
[10:57] <popey> Adriannom: does "lsmod | grep nvidia" show the driver loaded?
[10:57] <Adriannom> nope
[10:58] <popey> ok, good, so the driver isn't being loaded, thats a good start
[10:59] <popey> can you pastebin the output from "dpkg -l nvidia* | grep ^ii" ?
[10:59] <Adriannom> sure
[11:00] <Adriannom> http://pastebin.com/Ai9FYkTm
[11:00] <popey> you have a ppa enabled?
[11:00] <popey> Ubuntu-x-swat
[11:00] <Adriannom> yup, tried default repos first though
[11:01] <popey> ok, lets revert back...
[11:01] <Adriannom> i can remove that
[11:01] <Adriannom> sure
[11:01] <popey> you know how to purge it?
[11:01] <kvarley> How can I change the screen resolution to a specific size in virtual box ubuntu?
[11:02]  * czajkowski hugs popey you're well smart! 
[11:02] <kvarley> Guest additions works but I need the resolution to be a certain size for screencasting
[11:03] <popey> kvarley: in a terminal inside the vm run "watch -d -n 0.1 xrandr"
[11:03] <popey> then manually resize the virtualbox window until it's the right size ☺
[11:03] <Adriannom> i just removed from software sources and uninstalled nvidia*
[11:03] <popey> Adriannom: ppa-purge is handy
[11:03] <kvarley> popey: Any way via xrandr to change it to a size automatically?
[11:04] <popey> yes
[11:04] <popey> but it's easier to do it manually tbh
[11:04] <kvarley> ok
[11:04] <kvarley> popey: thanks
[11:04] <popey> it will constantly report the screen res
[11:04] <popey> thats how i do it anyway
[11:05] <davmor2> morning all
[11:06] <popey> afternoon

[11:09] <Darael> Nope.  Definitely morning.  I haven't eaten yet.
[11:09] <davmor2> popey: it's 11 am it is still MORNING! ;)
[11:09] <Adriannom> popey, ok ppa-purge done :)
[11:16] <popey> Adriannom: sorry, interrupted by mother in law on facebook ☺
[11:16] <popey> Adriannom: so, can you pastebin... "sudo apt-get install --reinstall nvidia-current" ?
[11:16] <Adriannom> no prob :)
[11:30] <Adriannom|droid> Popey, catastophy... I thought my system was up to date, realised it wasn't and installed updates before we continue. Now on boot, it seemingly freckle eezes on "disabling saned", and I can't seem to get into low graphics mode... ;|
[11:31] <Adriannom|droid> Freckle eezes? FREEZES
[11:31] <Adriannom|droid> stupid predictive text
[11:32] <popey> heh
[11:32] <popey> Adriannom|droid: can you get to a recovery mode?
[11:32] <popey> i.e. a root console
[11:33] <popey> i prefer freckle eezes
[11:33] <Adriannom> aha ;)
[11:33] <Adriannom> was probably the x config
[11:34] <popey> ok, so you have a desktop now?
[11:34] <Adriannom> yup
[11:34] <Adriannom> ok running the install now
[11:34] <popey> might be worth doing this to see if anything is missing... "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get dist-upgrade && sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop^"
[11:34] <Adriannom> ok
[11:35] <Adriannom> couple of things
[11:35] <Adriannom> i trusted i was up to date because i clicked "update while you install"
[11:35] <Adriannom> guess that was a mistake :P
[11:35] <popey> hah
[11:35] <popey> we lie
[11:36] <Adriannom> lol
[11:36] <popey> blame Laney
[11:36] <popey> or xnox
[11:36] <popey> or both!
[11:36] <Adriannom> ok another restart, talk to you about freckle eezes when it goes belly up ;)
[11:37] <xnox> hmm?
[11:37] <popey> back in your box!
[11:37] <Adriannom|droid> Lol
[11:40] <Adriannom> popey, http://paste.ubuntu.com/1619764/
[11:40] <popey> ok
[11:40] <popey> and then you rebooted/
[11:40] <popey> ?
[11:41] <Adriannom> nope, will do
[11:41] <popey> or..
[11:41] <Adriannom> or
[11:41] <popey> sudo service lightdm restart
[11:41] <popey> which will restart your session
[11:41] <popey> like that
[11:41] <kvarley> If ubuntu switches to wayland or something similar does that mean compiz will no longer be needed and no additional drivers will be needed to display the unity environment?
[11:42] <popey> you'll always need drivers ☺
[11:42] <directhex> kvarley, yes and no
[11:42] <popey> compiz will probably go away
[11:42] <popey> so that's moot
[11:42] <directhex> compiz will go away
[11:42] <davmor2> popey: Adriannom: that just updates the installer not the entire desktop
[11:43] <popey> davmor2: yeah, thats misleading
[11:43] <Adriannom|droid> Stuck in console, no errors, reboot?
[11:43] <directhex> but the question is whether ubuntu ships with a compositor called unity, instead of the reference compositor weston
[11:43] <popey> Adriannom|droid: yeah, thats easiest
[11:43] <directhex> in the wayland model you have a wayland server and a compositor, instead of an x11 server and a window manager
[11:43] <popey> that is indeed a question
[11:44] <directhex> weston is extensible, but i don't know if it's more work to make unity as an extension to weston, or just fork it off & make something standalne
[11:44] <davmor2> popey: yeah I think there was a bug for that though
[11:44] <directhex> the "ubuntu to use its own windowing system!" nonsense in the tech press suggests wayland without weston
[11:45] <Adriannom> popey, all working... so i guess it was the software update
[11:45] <Adriannom> ?
[11:48] <popey> all working okay?
[11:48] <Adriannom> yeah
[11:48] <popey> \o/
[11:48] <popey> huzzah
[11:48] <Adriannom> :s \o/
[11:48] <Adriannom> thanks a lot
[11:48]  * popey celebrates with coffee
[11:48] <popey> np
[11:53] <kvarley> I don't know how but guest additions works without me installing it manually on an ubuntu livecd
[12:04] <Adriannom> anyone know if the global menu is here to stay?
[12:06] <Adriannom> all i can find on google is stuff saying it'll become optional in 12.04
[12:07] <popey> i dunno tbh
[12:08] <kvarley> global menu?
[12:08] <directhex> the appleism, where the file etc menu are at the top of the screen, not on the window that owns it
[12:08] <directhex> makes focus-follows-mouse impossible
[12:10] <sagaci> I hope it stays, makes sense with unity
[12:10] <popey> yeah, i miss focus follows mouse, a bit
[12:10] <popey> I tend to just full screen everything these days
[12:12] <popey> alt-middle click is handy
[12:12] <popey> (on the title bar)
[12:12] <popey> pushes to the back of the stack
[12:14] <Adriannom> cautiously avoiding a debate about it...  it's about time it was optional...
[12:14] <Adriannom> ;o
[12:15] <Adriannom> but i guess we must resort to hacks
[12:15] <sagaci> global menu as opposed to each window having its own menus
[12:17] <SuperMatt> I could never get on with focus follows mouse
[12:17] <SuperMatt> because I would often bat my mouse away and type
[12:17] <Adriannom> nor i
[12:17] <SuperMatt> only to find my password was being typed in to my irc session
[12:17] <SuperMatt> that's an extreme example
[12:18] <Adriannom> it happened though right? ;)
[12:18] <SuperMatt> I like that I can scroll without focus though
[12:18] <SuperMatt> nah, not really, but it could
[12:18] <Adriannom> did to me :o
[12:25] <davmor2> popey: is maliit really a big issue?does it do something wonderful that isn't done by the accessibility keyboard?
[12:32] <einonm> +
[12:38] <popey> davmor2: "the accessibility keyboard"?
[12:38] <popey> onboard?
[12:39] <davmor2> popey: yeah sorry I keep forgetting it's not the a11y keyboard
[12:39] <davmor2> popey: does maliit bring better
[12:40] <davmor2> popey: as far as I can tell on the n7 onboard is a little sluggish but fairly usable
[12:47] <popey> dunno about performance, not compared them
[12:47] <popey> but maliit has some features onboard doesn't (and likely never will have)
[12:49] <Laney> maliit's mallet http://www.cutebitz.com/images/products/mallets_mallet2.png
[12:52] <davmor2> popey: ah okay
[13:04] <ali1234> maliit is a keyboard like you would get n a real smartphone
[13:04] <popey> ☺
[13:05] <ali1234> onboard is like what you get on windows 95 on screen keyboard
[13:05] <popey> swipe was based on maliit
[13:05] <popey> and i _think_ maliit is the keyboard which shipped on the N9
[13:06] <popey> hmm, when i paste an image from t'internet into a libreoffice impress, it goes from transparent to black background
[13:06] <popey> annoying
[13:07] <popey> can you override that?
[13:08] <kvarley> popey: This isn't for Impress specifically but it may work? http://ask.libreoffice.org/en/question/1035/paste-unformatted-text-default-option/
[13:12] <popey> thats for text
[13:12] <popey> this is an image
[13:18] <davmor2> popey: libreoffice still java based if so then it might be that the default install is missing a java plugin that makes it work, I could be way off though.
[13:22] <dwatkins> I thought they'd stopped using Java, but I might be wrong.
[13:23] <popey> help.libreoffice.org seems down
[13:25] <dwatkins> It's not just you! http://help.libreoffice.org looks down from here.
[13:26] <ali1234> popey:
[13:26] <popey> looks like a bug
[13:26] <ali1234> just convert transparent image to fixed bg in gimp, and then paste that
[13:26] <popey> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/libreoffice-bugs/2012-January/034028.html
[13:27] <popey> yeah, thats what I'm doing now ☹
[13:27] <ali1234> if transparent worked properly, why would they make default do something completely pointless and then force you to override it? except for the obvious "because that's how open source software works"
[13:28] <SuperMatt> ooh libre office 4 has unity integration \o/
[13:29] <ali1234> so does it work if you open transparent bg from a file instead of pasting it?
[13:29] <ali1234> or does libreoffice just not support transparent images at all?
[13:30] <popey> no
[13:30] <popey> tried both
[13:48] <directhex> Dave2, OOo Base uses Java stuff. I don't think the rest of it does
[13:48] <directhex> i.e. the standard DB connectivity in OOo Base is via a JDBC layer
[13:54] <einonm> does anyone know if there's a way to save and restore a set of tabbed terminals in the same window, including their labels and PWDs? On 12.04 or 12.10 Unity.
[13:54] <einonm> I'm getting fed up of having to set them up every time
[14:12] <dwatkins> einonm: you can do this with GNU Screen, but using windows inside a single terminal.
[14:12] <dwatkins> 'windows' in the sense Screen switches between them
[14:15]  * einonm searches for gnu screen
[14:16] <einonm> dwatkins: thanks, I'll give it a go
[14:17] <dwatkins> einonm: it's incredibly powerful, I use it all the time (although some say I should switch to tmux by now), you can setup status lines and populate the windows with specific apps at startup.
[14:18] <einonm> Cool. Not to bothered about apps, just the PWD being set
[14:19] <dwatkins> how so, einonm?
[14:20] <dwatkins> you mean you want to start a shell but cd to a particular directory before doing anything else, automatically?
[14:20] <einonm> I use cmdln things like vim/git/make, not really one app per window
[14:21] <einonm> dwatkins: yes, exactly
[14:21] <dwatkins> should be easy enough to setup in the .screenrc
[14:21] <dwatkins> screen -t git cd /my/git/directory
[14:21] <dwatkins> screen -t vi cd /my/vi/directory
[14:21] <dwatkins> -t for the title of that windw
[14:22] <dwatkins> I'm sure there are plenty of tutorials on switching between screen windows by now.
[14:24] <einonm> sure, I'll have a go. I had hoped it would be easy with the default gnome-terminal, but it looks to be vastly underpowered compared to the old gnome-terminal, where you could set the title and geometry up
[14:27] <dwatkins> I stopped using GUI functionality like this when I realised I much prefer fullscreening the terminal - probably something to do with the fact I just started using a BBC Micro again as a toy ;)
[14:28] <ali1234> einonm: gnome-terminal --tab --working-directory /tmp --tab --working-directory /home
[14:30] <ali1234> also -t "tab title" and -e "command to run in tab"
[14:30] <ali1234> with that you can do everything you want
[14:31] <einonm> I've managed to start a session with the right number of tabs and correct PWD's, using the --save-config option, but the titles still aren't set
[14:32] <Adriannom> getting loads of different crazy random bugs with chromium unity webapps, stuff like clicking the launcher icon brings up a bogus chromium icon so there are two icons pointing to the same app, chromium proper stops being able to visit new pages when the webapp is open, sometimes the webapp is open, but the launcher says it isn't, and another click will reopen it.
[14:33] <ali1234> einonm: you need to go into profile prefs, and make a profile that doesn't allow commands to change the title
[14:33] <ali1234> then select that profile for the tab
[14:33] <Adriannom> is this normal?  i hate that i feel like i have to ask that, but it seems "stable" is more like beta with ubuntu these days :(
[14:34] <ali1234> Adriannom: mismatch between icons and windows is normal for any dock, whether webapps are involved or not
[14:34] <Adriannom> ... but... it seems pretty fundamental to my usage of the computer...
[14:35] <ali1234> yeah
[14:35] <ali1234> this is why docks are fundamentally broken
[14:35] <Adriannom> is there a fix?
[14:35] <ali1234> stop using unity
[14:36] <ali1234> and don't switch to any of the following: OS X, gnome-shell, docky (plank)
[14:37] <Adriannom> which would you rate?
[14:37] <ali1234> i dunno
[14:38] <ali1234> if you want a simple install xubuntu is the best option at the moment
[14:38] <ali1234> even though sound is broken ootb
[14:38] <Adriannom> i didn't get on with xfce as much as gnome 2.  mate looks good
[14:39] <ali1234> MATE isn't available on ubuntu unless you go to a PPA
[14:39] <Adriannom> been using xubuntu for ages before i just gave unity another shot
[14:39] <ali1234> and it isn't compatible with indicators
[14:39] <ali1234> so it doesn't operate like gnome 2 used to in say, 10.04
[14:39] <Adriannom> indicators?  notification tray stuff or?
[14:39] <ali1234> yes
[14:39] <Adriannom> ugh...
[14:40] <Adriannom> and i suppose i can't have gnome 2?
[14:40] <ali1234> basically you will get the panel, and you'll have to rely on tray applets from 4 years ago that don't work properly
[14:40] <ali1234> MATE is the same as having gnome 2
[14:40] <Adriannom> right
[14:40] <ali1234> that's the problem: all indicators were ported to gnome 3
[14:40] <ali1234> MATE is still gnome 2 (gtk2)
[14:40] <ali1234> XFCE has same problem actually
[14:41] <ali1234> for now you can actually install gnome fallback and it is mostly like gnome 2 except using gtk3
[14:41] <ali1234> however gnome developers have decided to stop maintaining it
[14:41] <Adriannom> gnome fallback seemed a but primitive interface-wise
[14:41] <ali1234> it does everything gnome 2 did
[14:41] <ali1234> it's the same code base in fact
[14:42] <Adriannom> oh, when i tried i couldn't get the toolbars to be sensible.  maybe my error
[14:42] <ali1234> you have to press windows+alt+right click on toolbars
[14:42] <ali1234> instead jus right clicking
[14:42] <Adriannom> right, thanks :)
[14:42] <ali1234> this is better, it means no more accidents
[14:43] <Adriannom> although not maintained isn't good, i will just have to go through this again when everything breaks
[14:43] <ali1234> yes
[14:43] <ali1234> i'm sure someone will pick it up
[14:43] <ali1234> but as of today linux desktop is a mess of half finished new stuff and unmaintained old stuff
[14:43] <ali1234> so basically business as usual
[14:44] <Adriannom> so my choices are the same as they were several releases ago for ubuntu...  if you want an os that works, fo.
[14:44] <Adriannom> ;o
[14:44] <ali1234> hmm... it's more like your choices are the same as they were before ubuntu existed
[14:44] <ali1234> you can choose gnome which is so simplified that it is non-functional
[14:45] <Adriannom> return to windows you mean? ;)
[14:45] <ali1234> or KDE that has so much crap you can't find anything
[14:45] <Adriannom> it's actually tempting ;)
[14:45] <ali1234> or some weird "other" that doesn't really work and has strange design goals that few people understand
[14:45] <Adriannom> yeah
[14:45] <Adriannom> everything was flakey
[14:46] <Adriannom> and you're right... we're back to flakey
[14:46] <Azelphur> popey: woo \o/
[14:46] <ali1234> maybe consort desktop will save us
[14:46] <ali1234> but i think they'll struggle to get enough backing/support/userbase to really keep the project going
[14:47] <brobostigon> http://taylorworld.me.uk/ubuntu-uk.html wow, someone talks alot.
[14:47] <Adriannom> maybe another distro
[14:48] <ali1234> consort basically is another distro
[14:48] <Adriannom> ohh
[14:48] <ali1234> being as it is, created for solusOS (yeah i never heard of it either)
[14:49] <Adriannom> heh
[14:49] <brobostigon> other interesting numbers on that page, is also interesting.
[14:50] <Adriannom> but i guess consort is young yet
[14:50] <Adriannom> what other distros aren't rubbish?  arch? fedora?
[14:50] <ali1234> they all have significant problems
[14:51] <ali1234> fedora is overrun with lennart rubbish
[14:51] <ali1234> arch users are annoying
[14:51] <ali1234> debian developers are annoying
[14:51] <ali1234> slackware is stuck in 1998
[14:51] <ali1234> take your pick
[14:51] <Adriannom> lol
[14:51] <mgdm> everything sucks, pick the one that sucks the least for you
[14:51] <mgdm> :)
[14:52] <ali1234> indeed
[14:52] <Adriannom> when good ui becomes nostalgia...  a sad time
[14:53] <Adriannom> why are arch users annoying?
[14:54] <ali1234> well go to #arch and idle for a while
[14:54] <ali1234> if you don't get annoyed, arch may be for you
[14:54] <Adriannom> good plan
[14:54] <Adriannom> i could probably handle annoying users
[14:55] <ali1234> maybe it was a bad day
[14:55] <Adriannom> as long as i could actually do shit on my pc
[14:55] <Adriannom> *stuff
[14:55] <popey> Adriannom: so let me get this right, you're looking at different distros because webapps are broken?
[14:55] <ali1234> but last time i visited it was wall to wall toilet humour and 12 year olds showing off
[14:56] <ali1234> popey: why is that unreasonable?
[14:56] <popey> i didnt say it's unreasonable, just a leap
[14:56] <popey> and one you seem to always encourage in here
[14:56] <popey> given that feature can be uninstalled / disabled
[14:56] <ali1234> if the distro i'm using has a stated goal of putting disproportionate amounts of work into software that i don't use, and also *still* can't make it work, why would i want to continue to use it?
[14:56] <Adriannom> popey, that's not right no, it's one of many things i don't like about unity that can't be fixed
[14:56] <ali1234> also, the problem as stated doesn't just affect web apps
[14:57] <popey> ok, fair enough Adriannom
[14:57] <popey> i only saw you state webapps issues.. carry on
[14:57] <ali1234> it affects everything under unity
[14:57] <Adriannom> and xcfe was annoying me, and there are no other options
[14:57] <Adriannom> popey, ya, partial context :P
[14:57] <popey> just depressing that's all
[14:57] <ali1234> anyway nothing wrong with looking at different distros. i concluded all the others were even worse though, that's why i'm still here
[14:58] <popey> no, nothing wrong with shopping around, of course
[14:58] <popey> just wanted to make sure there wasn't some fixable thing
[14:58] <popey> e.g. the nvidia issue earlier might have led some to switch distro
[14:58] <ali1234> what issue was that?
[14:58] <Adriannom> if you can fix ubuntu to only release stable things that would be what is needed ;o
[14:58] <popey> this morning Adriannom had a problem with the wrong nvidia driver being loaded
[14:58] <ali1234> ah ok
[14:59] <Adriannom> nah that stuff is basic linux troubles
[14:59] <popey> yeah, but some people go "ooh, black screen, switch distro time"
[14:59] <ali1234> yeah, design flaws are much worse problem
[14:59] <popey> but anyway, this is not that ☺
[14:59] <ali1234> clearly not even the most insane UX team would design a system to intentionally show nothing but a black screen forever
[15:00] <ali1234> you'll never see me suggesting distro switch for a legit bug like that :)
[15:00] <popey> just all the other cases ;)
[15:00] <popey> i kid
[15:00] <Adriannom> i'm actually really fond of ubuntu, but i think it's more that kind of fondness you have for someone you don't love anymore after they started drinking and beating the kids...
[15:00] <ali1234> first you have to fully understand the problem
[15:01] <Adriannom> i.e. just a memory
[15:01] <ali1234> if you found the bug cause and then the distro refused to fix it, i would advocate changing distro
[15:01] <ali1234> but that's a different problem
[15:01] <ali1234> Adriannom: LOL
[15:03] <ali1234> anyway i think your best thing to use right now is gnome fallback
[15:03] <Adriannom> yeah i was thinking the same
[15:03] <ali1234> then switch to consort if nobody starts maintaining gnome-panel
[15:03] <Adriannom> the drink problem might go away
[15:03] <ali1234> (consort is fork of gnome-panel and some other bits)
[15:03] <ali1234> this is what i'm going to do anyway
[15:05] <Adriannom> thanks for the help :)
[15:07] <popey> ali1234: someone has already stepped up to maintain gnome-panel
[15:07] <Adriannom> \o/
[15:08] <ali1234> popey: oh? who was it?
[15:08] <ali1234> where's the announcement?
[15:08] <popey> http://jonathancarter.org/2013/02/05/gnome-panel-is-alive/
[15:09] <Adriannom> omg, it's been a while gnome 2, i forgot how happy you make me
[15:12] <ali1234> for best experience install human-theme, and use gnome-tweak-tool to apply it. and use radiance for gtk theme
[15:12] <dwatkins> was the switch to Unity necessary because of the Ubuntu Phone, or are they unrelated?
[15:15] <davmor2> dwatkins: the switch to unity was to provide one desktop ui for all form factors
[15:16] <dwatkins> davmor2: makes sense
[15:19] <Laney> man aren't crumpets great
[15:20] <Adriannom> maybe we should also have the same vehicle for every person who needs to go somewhere
[15:20] <Adriannom> people's requirements can't possibly be that different
[15:20] <popey> Laney: yes, when just crispy enough, and slathered in butter
[15:21]  * Laney put saint agur on one of these :O
[15:21] <popey> nom
[15:23] <brobostigon> anyone use a vpn here, on an android mobile, and can give me some indication of how much extra overhead, specfically battery drain for example, compared to without?
[15:25] <einonm> brobostigon: I've used VPN on android before. Not for long enough to notice a difference in the battery though. It shouldn't change much - as VPN is just ethernet packets with an extra wrapper, I think.
[15:26] <dwatkins> I guess the question is whether the VPN is kept alive with some kind of periodic ping packets
[15:26] <brobostigon> einonm: also, there is the extra encryption and decryption within the process also.
[15:31] <redtape-renegade> Morning .. Afternoon whatever .
[15:32] <einonm> brobostigon: sure. I don't know how that's implemented, but I can't see that making a huge difference, especially if it uses the kernel crypto to perform the work
[15:33] <brobostigon> einonm: i would tend to agree, yes. l2tp does the tunnelling part, and ipsec runs inside that, to do the encryption inside that tunnel.
[15:33] <einonm> The biggest effect I would guess would be shoving the extra bytes over 3G
[15:34] <brobostigon> good point, or in the case of my tablet wifi or bluetooth.
[15:35] <popey> You're sending _all_ traffic over a vpn?
[15:35] <brobostigon> no, only when needed.
[15:37] <einonm> brobostigon: can you measure the battery drain caused by wifi or bluetooth currently on your tablet?
[15:37] <brobostigon> einonm: the battery meters do seem to show data on battery use of those facilities.
[15:37] <einonm> is it significant?
[15:38] <brobostigon> bluetooth alittle, wifi fairly tiny.
[15:38] <einonm> so you're probably talking a very small percentage of that, at most, as a cost of using VPN
[15:38] <brobostigon> wifi is something like 4/5%, bluetooth about double that.
[15:39] <brobostigon> i would tend to agree, even a few percent ontop of any of those, isnt really that significant.
[15:41] <einonm> looking at a few random numbers on google, 80 bytes per packet is possibly worst case scenario for a VPN packet...so far an MTU of 1500, thats ~5% more for a crude estimate
[15:41] <einonm> s/far/for
[15:41] <brobostigon> ~5% extra isnt huge.
[15:42] <einonm> 5% of 5% of you battery
[15:42] <einonm> ..your..
[15:42] <dwatkins> the screen is usually the biggest battery hog
[15:42] <brobostigon> definatly.
[15:43] <dwatkins> turning the brightness down can help a lot, obv.
[15:44] <brobostigon> certainly.
[15:46] <Azelphur> Is there any way to get in contact with the edimax people?
[15:46] <Azelphur> I broke it already. :(
[15:46] <brobostigon> :(
[15:47] <popey> brobostigon: what you using bluetooth for?
[15:47] <brobostigon> popey: tethering to my mobile, when no other option.
[15:47] <popey> turn it off at other times?
[15:47] <brobostigon> yes.
[15:48] <brobostigon> i was just curious about the vpn, i have solved all other battery problems.
[15:52] <andylockran> howdy
[15:52] <brobostigon> afternoonings andylockran
[15:53] <andylockran> bro: how goes things?
[15:53] <brobostigon> andylockran: not bad overall, and you?
[15:54] <andylockran> yeah, good thansk
[15:54] <andylockran> busy busy
[15:54] <brobostigon> so abit of :) and abit of :(
[15:55] <andylockran> yup :)
[15:55] <andylockran> :Z
[15:55] <brobostigon> :)
[15:55]  * Azelphur sends this off to edimax support http://pastebin.com/bRDHkuVX
[15:56] <Azelphur> I dun broked it :<
[16:01] <dwatkins> edimax as in the wifi adapter people, Azelphur?
[16:02] <Azelphur> yep
[16:02] <Azelphur> this is for an IP camera
[16:02] <dwatkins> I have the little dongle loads of people are using on the Raspberry Pi
[16:02] <dwatkins> hh
[16:02] <dwatkins> ahh even
[16:02] <Azelphur> http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/4-/20236442/Edimax-51345-IP-Camera-USB-adapter-Bundle/Product.html I bought this
[16:02] <Azelphur> on the camera side, the firmware is broke, on the play.com side, they didn't send me the wifi adapters. haha
[16:02] <dwatkins> I'm guessing a full reset doesn't help.
[16:02] <Azelphur> nah, it's obviously a bug in the firmware that crept in at some point.
[16:02] <dwatkins> they're pictured with it, though
[16:03] <Azelphur> yea xD
[16:03] <dwatkins> I see
[16:04] <Azelphur> now the question is, what do I need to feed this page to tell it to connect to wifi, considering the wifi page is broke xD
[16:05] <dwatkins> you should be able to manually reconstruct the form
[16:05] <Azelphur> indeed
[16:05] <dwatkins> chrome's dev tools might be useful, or firebug
[16:05] <Azelphur> yea, that's what I've been doing
[16:06] <Azelphur> I'm gonna try IE first in virtualbox before reconstructing the form, though
[16:06] <dwatkins> good plan, they may only have tested there ;)
[16:06] <Azelphur> indeed
[16:24] <Azelphur> wow, 14 minutes to reply from a developer at edimax
[16:24] <Azelphur> kickass support right there.
[16:24] <brobostigon> wow, cool.
[16:25] <mungbean> anyone know about the windows terminal services vulnerability from 2012 ? does it bypass terminal services completely and hence not log any security log messages?
[16:30] <davmor2> mungbean: you know you're asking that on an Ubuntu channel right ;)
[16:30] <mungbean> yeah. my favourite place to ask. i don't know any windows security channel - is there one?
[16:30] <einonm> mungbean: try #oxymorons? :p
[16:31] <davmor2> mungbean: google will tell you I'm sure
[16:31] <davmor2> mungbean: I somehow doubt it though
[16:36] <einonm> mungbean: you could try cve.mitre.org if you know what you're looking for
[16:41] <einonm> mungbean: bingo? CVE-2012-0152
[16:42] <mungbean> \o/ i was just looking at that page :D
[16:43] <mungbean> http://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2012-0002
[16:44] <einonm> there are so many...
[16:44] <mungbean> says that authentication is not req'd
[16:44] <mungbean> hence nothing would appear in the log
[17:12] <Azelphur> Hmm, TalkTalk engineer was supposed to come out on the 5th, no engineer came out, but apparently they are connecting me today. :S
[17:13] <Azelphur> they said he only comes out if you don't have a BT master socket, I don't think I have one, all I have is the normal flat wall faceplates, rather than the bigger box for the master socket
[18:48] <redtape-renegade> Wow, just tried gPodder for the 1st time in months .. Downloading 8Gb's of podcasts .. I just wonder if it's worth it ? I went with the several gPodder recomm'dations .. but more FLOSS stuff is required on my system, no doubt.
[18:49]  * MartijnVdS downloads podcasts directly on his phone now
[18:50] <popey> MartijnVdS: what app?
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> popey: beyondpod
[18:50] <popey> ta
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> it takes some getting used to (UX is not the best), but it works
[18:51]  * redtape-renegade isn't going with mobiles until Űbuntu-phone is federated .
[18:51] <Azelphur> lol, I think I got a ridiculous deal on this camera
[18:51] <redtape-renegade> go on ...
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: do tell :)
[18:51] <Azelphur> £40 for edimax IC-7000PTn v2, wireless n PTZ camera
[18:51] <redtape-renegade> What MPixel ?
[18:51] <Azelphur> and then they gave me £10 off because the bundled wireless n usb adapters where missing
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: is that one of those that AlanBell has?
[18:52] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: possibly
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: they're €150 here.. what did you pay
[18:52] <Azelphur> redtape-renegade: 1.3
[18:52] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: £30
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nice deal :)
[18:52] <Azelphur> indeed
[18:52] <Azelphur> I think I nabbed the last one :(
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Tenvis-Wireless-WIFI-IP-Camera-WebCam-JPT3815W-WHITE-UK-seller-/261156882865?pt=UK_CCTV&hash=item3cce29c9b1#ht_3139wt_1141
[18:54] <Azelphur> nice
[18:54] <redtape-renegade> How do I search my bookmarks in chromium ?
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: only VGA though
[18:55] <Azelphur> yea, not as good resolution
[18:55] <popey> chrome://bookmarks
[18:55] <popey> go there
[18:55] <redtape-renegade> thanx.
[18:55] <Azelphur> is that night vision I see around the lens, though?
[18:55] <Azelphur> it is, oO
[18:56] <Azelphur> so less resolution, but has night vision.
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: lots of those IP cams have IR vision
[18:56] <Azelphur> yea, mine doesn't
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: and I think there's at least one custom firmware project
[18:56] <Azelphur> for that specific camera?
[18:56] <Azelphur> the edimaxes are nice, they are all GPL
[18:57] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Wireless-IP-WIFI-Network-Security-Camera-Pan-Tilt-Webcam-Night-Vision-CCTV-11-IR-/280966425012?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&var=&hash=item8712cf05ef#ht_6720wt_1141
[18:57] <Azelphur> o.O
[18:59] <ali1234> "bt master socket" just means "bt socket"
[18:59] <ali1234> almost nobody has the new integrated filter socket
[18:59] <ali1234> they don't do anything anyway
[18:59] <Azelphur> I like how the product types don't match up to the specs below
[18:59] <Azelphur> ali1234: ah, so if I have BT sockets then I'm all good to go
[19:00] <ali1234> yes they don't need to access your property if it's already wired to BT exchange
[19:00] <ali1234> they've probably already done it
[19:00] <Azelphur> fun
[19:00] <Azelphur> then yea, why the 3 month wait? XD
[19:01] <ali1234> because they still have to send an engineer to muck with the green box on the end of the road
[19:01] <Azelphur> ah I see
[19:01] <Azelphur> so he just turned up without me knowing, I guess
[19:01] <ali1234> yes
[19:01] <ali1234> they don't knock on yur door and say "i've done it!
[19:02] <Azelphur> fun
[19:02] <Azelphur> then that just leaves the "it don't work" problem
[19:03] <ali1234> power off all hardware for 5 minutes and try again
[19:03] <Azelphur> I don't get a dialtone on a phone even
[19:03] <ali1234> then again it's talktalk, so they've probably wired your telephone to 240V or something
[19:03] <Azelphur> lmao
[19:04] <Azelphur> unplugged everything, in 5 minutes I'll go on a roam with the phone and see if any of the sockets in the flat work
[19:04] <ali1234> it wont if you don get dialtone
[19:04] <Azelphur> yea, I got complete silence
[19:07] <Azelphur> and yea, it doesn't get a dialtone anywhere in the house
[19:35] <MartijnVdS>  Yeah! http://dftba.com/product/14z/Everything-Is-Dead-T-Shirt
[20:04] <mgdm> the sodding update manager is coming back on the hour every hour
[20:05] <mgdm> any way to kill it?
[20:05] <mgdm> Hmm, there's a likely-looking gconf key
[20:09] <Azelphur> Anyone here know their way around zoneminder? I have my camera hooked up to it, but when I view the monitor ZMC jumps to 100% CPU, and I get about 0.1 fps with constant dropouts
[20:13] <AlanBell> Azelphur: nope, but I am interested in it
[20:13] <AlanBell> I have a couple of the cheap PT cameras
[20:13] <AlanBell> want to do cleverer things with them
[20:15] <Azelphur> AlanBell: seems like we are on the same page
[20:19] <Azelphur> as I say I have mine running in zoneminder, but at like 0.1 fps
[20:19] <Azelphur> :(
[20:19] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: get a synology nas with surveillance station on it;)
[20:20] <Azelphur> haha
[20:22] <AlanBell> I am currently using the built in software on the one at the door to email me photos of people approaching the house, it is pretty cool
[20:22] <AlanBell> I spot deliveries and stuff being left on the step so I can pop home and get it
[20:22] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: spotted anyone "suspicous" yet?
[20:23] <AlanBell> yeah, but he lives here
[20:23] <Azelphur> AlanBell: my delivery guys NEVER leave stuff on the doorstep o.O
[20:23] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: ...
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> music time! :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lbn10J_11f8
[20:24] <AlanBell> never gonna give you up
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: no, Nerina Pallot :)
[20:24] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'll be driving from Harwich to Cornwall to see her in May
[20:25] <MartijnVdS> (she's playing at Minack Theatre, Porthcurno)
[20:27] <AlanBell> very nice
[20:30] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: I'll be in the area (driving..) on May 12
[20:58] <redtape-renegade> "I spot deliveries and stuff being left on the step so I can pop home and get it" redtape- wonders why there isn't a little house for the mail in the garden ??
[20:59] <daftykins> stuff requires signatures
[21:00] <daftykins> redtape-renegade: i phoned up to pay for Gas in my new house today, the call centre was on the Isle of Man O_O
[21:01] <redtape-renegade> daftykins: Did she tell you a 'tail' or did she sound proper manx ?
[21:01] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: So you need a robot with a screen (that you can project your own head on), a camera (so you can see what it would "see") and a "hand" (so it can make a signature)
[21:02] <Azelphur> don't you hate it when you sign up to a forum, and there's a question you know the answer to
[21:02] <Azelphur> and they won't let you reply because you're a first time user.
[21:02] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: It's called the neighbour (who worx nights :) )
[21:02] <MartijnVdS> redtape-renegade: nah, robots > neighbors
[21:03] <daftykins> redtape-renegade: i don't really know the accent over there tbh, this guy sounded a tiny bit welsh :D
[21:03] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: so "Welshish"
[21:04] <daftykins> if you want to use a different word, you may
[21:04] <daftykins> i think what i typed conveyed it well enough? :P
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> daftykins: but my word is funnier to say :)
[21:04] <daftykins> whatever you say sir
[21:04]  * MartijnVdS thinks so anyway
[21:04] <MartijnVdS> :|
[21:07] <Azelphur> yep, this is why I hate forums. http://www.zoneminder.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=20790&p=79054#p79054
[21:10] <daftykins> Azelphur: blech
[21:11] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: can't you post it in your own website, then link to it?
[21:11] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: nope, can't post links at all.
[21:11] <popey> Azelphur: too many words... "don't you hate forums?" - "yes."
[21:11] <Azelphur> haha
[21:12]  * MartijnVdS Zzz
[21:12] <daftykins> what about domains with spaces?
[21:12] <Azelphur> It's not so bad when they work, but all this crap the admins seem to do to plainly piss off the actual users is annoying
[21:12] <daftykins> or does that just invite a ban?
[21:12] <Azelphur> daftykins: god knows, maybe I'll try working around it.
[21:12] <daftykins> i find forums a joke 100% of the time
[21:13] <bigcalm> Evening peeps :)
[21:13] <daftykins> hai o/
[21:13] <bigcalm> To this day I can't help but read 'hai' as 'yes' in Japanese
[21:14] <redtape-renegade> MartijnVdS: http://www.gizmag.com/rethink-robotics-baxter-industrial-robot/24183/ .. but it may be sometime before www.bol.com offers them ($16,000).
[21:14] <daftykins> bigcalm: ^_^
[21:14] <daftykins> it works both ways!
[21:15] <bigcalm> Yes!
[21:15] <daftykins> 8D
[21:15] <daftykins> i do like the language
[21:15] <daftykins> i'd love to learn it if it were more useful around the world
[21:15] <daftykins> the kanji would be a challenge though i think
[21:16] <redtape-renegade> depends where you wanna work, surely.
[21:20] <ali1234> robots will be everywhere within 10 years
[21:20] <ali1234> by everywhere i mean walking around on the streets
[21:20] <ali1234> not just in factories
[21:24] <popey> as you typed that I looked up and there was an advert for Honda robot lawn mower
[21:32] <daftykins> Azelphur: net conn sorted yet?
[21:32] <Azelphur> daftykins: nope
[21:32] <daftykins> i've just ordered a BT VDSL HG612 off ebay :D
[21:32] <Azelphur> fun
[21:32] <daftykins> guy i know that got VDSL on Monday still has no router
[21:32] <Azelphur> xD
[21:32] <daftykins> so i'm gonna get that for his use first, then my use after :>
[21:33] <daftykins> they can be nicely modded to show tooooooonnes of stats :)
[21:33] <Azelphur> hehe
[21:39] <redtape-renegade> daftykins: Is there any way that you can have, say, two desktop hooked up to one monitor via VGA and flick a switch (on some box ?) that switches between computers to have two O/S's on one monitor at different times ??
[21:39] <redtape-renegade> **desktops
[21:40] <popey> yes
[21:40] <daftykins> yeah it's a KVM
[21:40] <popey> it's called a KVM switch
[21:40] <redtape-renegade> oh yes, I forgot .. thanx.
[21:40] <daftykins> but i'm still pretty certain you're out of luck on going VGA -> displayport
[21:41] <redtape-renegade> yes, I've over-written that disappointment.
[22:02] <ali1234> just finished synergy -> bus mouse hardware emulator code...
[22:05] <ali1234> fun fact: atari and amiga joysticks are compatible but the mice have a slightly different pin assignment for no obvious reason
[22:11] <daftykins> probably the standard approach of making sure you buy a given set of accessories
[22:11] <daftykins> to lock in those that aren't willing to fiddle
[22:11] <ali1234> well, except that amiga and atari both sold with a mouse anyway
[22:11] <redtape-renegade> I'm at the stage where  want to d-load youube videos.. Can someone take a second t run through the commands of how to download " https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYboYmTYoaI&feature=youtube_gdata"  as I've tried askubuntu with no luck ...
[22:12] <redtape-renegade> **to run through ..
[22:12] <ali1234> redtape-renegade: you install video download helper in firefox and that's it
[22:12] <daftykins> ali1234: sure but things break.
[22:12] <redtape-renegade> I'm using chromium.
[22:12] <ali1234> yeah. i never saw anyone selling official commodore mice tho... so i dunno
[22:13] <ali1234> they're both obvious rip-offs of microsoft bus mouse anyway, which has same connector and yet another different pin mapping
[22:13] <redtape-renegade> Do you want me to install firefox too, is that easier ?
[22:13] <daftykins> ff will probably run flash content better on that netbook of yours
[22:13] <redtape-renegade> ok
[22:45] <redtape-renegade> I can't stop saying the word Awesome today after hearing a posh guy with a lisp on youtube saying it... but he says " Authome" which is now in my vocab.  ..... damn crumpet eating Sloaneys !!
[22:45] <popey> hey Laney, redtape-renegade is calling you a crumpet eating sloaney!
[22:45] <popey> with your cheese!
[22:46] <daftykins> XD
[22:46]  * bigcalm wants crumpets
[22:47] <daftykins> i can't stand the 'fashion' of saying 'awesome' to everything that even my friends have adopted, i avoid using it :P
[22:47] <daftykins> and yesh such petty things are of concern to me :)
[22:50] <redtape-renegade> yeah, the rich  : .. they eat the same stodge just rich stodge, that the only difference to me .
[22:54] <redtape-renegade> Oh dear 'm going errano-ly off topic again.      damn that cerebral-ness !!
[22:54] <daftykins> ;)
[22:54] <daftykins> does anyone still actively use Bitfolk in here?
[22:59] <shauno> yup
[23:00] <daftykins> i'm looking at them and bytemark to get a VPS for hosting a few sites
[23:00] <daftykins> are they good in your experience?
[23:00] <daftykins> bytemark seem impressive specs wise, especially their newer service: http://bigv.io/
[23:00] <diplo> Im with bitfolk as well
[23:01] <diplo> Service is great, don't use it enough for anything else to say anymore
[23:01] <daftykins> thanks
[23:08] <shauno> never had an issue with bitfolk.  they've been great every time I've needed to talk to them
[23:09] <shauno> not convinced they're so competitively priced, but they've given me no reason to even consider moving
[23:11] <daftykins> yeah, indeedy. thanks!
[23:11] <daftykins> i guess they're a good choice if you know exactly what you're doing
[23:16] <AlanBell> !info libsphinxclient-dev
[23:29] <andylockran> wow
[23:29] <andylockran> that's the third time that's come up today :)
[23:29] <daftykins> that lib?
[23:29] <andylockran> +1 to the bitfolk recommendation
[23:29] <daftykins> oic
[23:29] <andylockran> and yeah, the libsphinxclient-dev lib
[23:30] <AlanBell> only available in 12.10
[23:30] <daftykins> i think i'm more leaning toward: http://bigv.io/ given the ownies hardware spec :D
[23:30] <popey> also +1 to bitfolk here
[23:30] <andylockran> recommended sphinx to a developer this morning, and then had an interviewee mention it this afternoon
[23:30] <AlanBell> just pondering upgrading a server or running sphinx on a different server
[23:30] <popey> they messed up the pricing of bigv
[23:30] <daftykins> popey: too low so they'll under-provision?
[23:31] <andylockran> I just love bitfolk increasing what they offer me every now and again
[23:31] <popey> no, they let people trial it then suddenly started charging them
[23:31] <andylockran> I started out with a 4GB disk & 128M RAM
[23:31] <daftykins> oic
[23:31] <daftykins> that doesn't really worry me
[23:31] <andylockran> I now have a lot more disk
[23:31] <andylockran> and double the RAM
[23:31] <popey> yeah, the regular upgrade on bitfolk are nice
[23:31] <andylockran> and I've never changed my standing orde
[23:32] <andylockran> yeah; bitfolk is recommended
[23:32] <popey> mine's gone up to 1GB RAM and 30GB disk space!
[23:32] <popey> started out much lower
[23:32] <andylockran> I may have to pay for that upgrade soon
[23:32] <andylockran> also got given a second IP free as it would make life easier for a configuration I was testing
[23:33] <andylockran> & ipv6 support out the box :)
[23:33] <daftykins> that sounds good, i'd be looking at hosting 3+ websites, two of which may have IMAP mailboxes
[23:33] <popey> i should look at ipv6 sometime
[23:33] <daftykins> me too, i don't even know if my ISP supports it yet
[23:33] <andylockran> I looked at it about 2 years ago, set it up and had it working nice
[23:34] <andylockran> but then as my ISP at home and work didn't support it, and i'd have to route everything over a tunnel; I just gave up.
[23:34] <daftykins> yeah i cba to try the tunneling
[23:34] <andylockran> Though most of my websites are listening on v6 + v4 :)
[23:34] <daftykins> as easy as i know it is
[23:34] <andylockran> I just cba doing something that 99% of people wouldn't attempt
[23:35] <andylockran> I don't mind appealing to the geeky 1% by having my sites available
[23:35] <andylockran> I thought it was important to work out how to network a cluster of servers that are currently NAT'd - and the effect that ipv6 would have on that
[23:36] <popey> bedlington
[23:36] <andylockran> ta ra popey