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canthus13Cheri703: Turns out it's the 64 bit version of the kernel that's the issue, not so much UEFI.  32 bit is installing fine now.15:29
Cheri703ah, nice15:46
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skellatMore problems in the 'Bula land: http://starbeacon.com/local/x2056609667/State-and-local-law-enforcement-raid-mall-store-in-Ashtabula-Township18:08
drkokandydon't do drugs, kids18:39
dniMretsaMor just move to Washington18:49
drkokandydid Washington make bath salts like those ones legal too?19:03
Cheri703I think the point is that you don't need the "synthetics" if you have legal access to the real stuff19:40
drkokandyah lol19:43
Cheri703colorado too19:44
Cheri703though that is NOT the reason I'm looking to move to Denver :)19:44
drkokandyjust one of the perks19:44
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Unit193jrgifford: I still like this http://blog.jamesrgifford.com/what-the-heck-fsf found it again for some reason and linked someone, they of course liked it as well.21:46
paultagah mr. mako23:00
paultagdzho: I suggest you check out http://mako.cc/writing/hill-freedom_for_users.html23:01
paultagI think that convays a great point that's similar to the last one23:01
dzho> yes23:06
dzho> To that end, please stop accusing users unwilling to shift to inferior software as haters of freedom; all you are doing is insulting us and inviting us to ignore you.23:07
dzhoI'm pretty sure Stallman doesn't routinely call people using proprietary software "haters of freedom".23:07
dzhoThat's a pretty inflammatory strawman.23:07
dzhorather, I think he'd say, like many of us would, that when using free software you have more freedom than if you use proprietary software for the same task, and less freedom vice versa.23:08
dzhothe stickiest question in my mind, and where I depart from RMS, is when there is not free software to do a specific thing.23:08
dzhoRMS sets an example of just avoiding doing those things that call for proprietary software or nothing.23:09
dzhowell, he might say you should write or fund the development of proprietary alternatives, but again, that's often not practical at the individual level, and even collectively a challenge.23:09
dzhopaultag: I like that mako acknowledges the free software community's difficulty in addressing these problems.23:10
paultagdzho: we talk about that often, I mean, he's a Debianite, and it's in our foundation documents that we must understand our users do require nonfree sometimes; and to be honest, RMS thinks the same thing23:11
paultagthe FSF just needs to work to make things better23:11
paultagand you don't do that by saying "Oh, Gmail's OK"23:11
dzhoRMS seems to have given himself more of a pass back when originally writing GNU.23:11
paultagbecause it's not granting end users freedom23:12
paultagwhich is a problem23:12
Cheri703gmail's not just ok, gmail is amazing :D23:12
dzhoyeah, not arguing there.23:12
paultagCheri703: not in terms of user freedom23:12
dzhonot arguing with paultag "which is a problem"23:12
Cheri703I know :)23:12
paultagand I don't think it'd be right for the FSF to back gmail, etc, etc.23:12
* Cheri703 lurves her google products23:12
* dzho has still not signed into google on his android phone23:13
dzhogoogle is as bad as apple in this case, nagging one to activate an account to use services.23:13
drkokandyGoogle lets you download all your data to export elsewhere or have a copy. I don't see how that's not supporting user freedom and choice23:14
dzhodrkokandy: maybe some day you will see.23:14
dzhounless you can download that data *and* do the same operations on it using the same software, it is a partial freedom in these terms.23:14
dzhothe same software that then offers you the 4 freedoms23:15
dzhothere is a whole range of partial freedoms that proprietary software offers.23:15
dzhofreedom to run the software, for instance . . . but usually only under very restricted conditions.23:15
dzhoso, you have "freedom" there, but it doesn't pass the standard.23:16
dzhoanyway, I'm off soon to exercise my freedom to eat dinner.23:16
paultagdzho: it's incomplete.23:17
paultagerm, drkokandy*23:17
paultagI can't get a complete dump of all my data. They're OK, but the DLF is not complete.23:17
Unit193IMAP makes it easier to move email accounts, in several ways.  http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/  Did I ever link that?23:21
paultagUnit193: it's not easy to put that data into another IMAP server23:22
Unit193Pretty sure I've done something like that, though. >_>23:24

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