[15:29] <canthus13> Cheri703: Turns out it's the 64 bit version of the kernel that's the issue, not so much UEFI.  32 bit is installing fine now.
[15:46] <Cheri703> ah, nice
[18:08] <skellat> More problems in the 'Bula land: http://starbeacon.com/local/x2056609667/State-and-local-law-enforcement-raid-mall-store-in-Ashtabula-Township
[18:39] <drkokandy> don't do drugs, kids
[18:49] <dniMretsaM> or just move to Washington
[19:03] <drkokandy> did Washington make bath salts like those ones legal too?
[19:40] <Cheri703> I think the point is that you don't need the "synthetics" if you have legal access to the real stuff
[19:43] <drkokandy> ah lol
[19:44] <Cheri703> colorado too
[19:44] <Cheri703> though that is NOT the reason I'm looking to move to Denver :)
[19:44] <drkokandy> just one of the perks
[19:44] <drkokandy> j/k
[21:46] <Unit193> jrgifford: I still like this http://blog.jamesrgifford.com/what-the-heck-fsf found it again for some reason and linked someone, they of course liked it as well.
[22:59] <dzho> http://mako.cc/writing/hill-when_free_software_isnt_better.html
[23:00] <paultag> ah mr. mako
[23:01] <paultag> dzho: I suggest you check out http://mako.cc/writing/hill-freedom_for_users.html
[23:01] <paultag> I think that convays a great point that's similar to the last one
[23:06] <dzho> > yes
[23:07] <dzho> > To that end, please stop accusing users unwilling to shift to inferior software as haters of freedom; all you are doing is insulting us and inviting us to ignore you.
[23:07] <dzho> I'm pretty sure Stallman doesn't routinely call people using proprietary software "haters of freedom".
[23:07] <dzho> That's a pretty inflammatory strawman.
[23:08] <dzho> rather, I think he'd say, like many of us would, that when using free software you have more freedom than if you use proprietary software for the same task, and less freedom vice versa.
[23:08] <dzho> the stickiest question in my mind, and where I depart from RMS, is when there is not free software to do a specific thing.
[23:09] <dzho> RMS sets an example of just avoiding doing those things that call for proprietary software or nothing.
[23:09] <dzho> well, he might say you should write or fund the development of proprietary alternatives, but again, that's often not practical at the individual level, and even collectively a challenge.
[23:10] <dzho> paultag: I like that mako acknowledges the free software community's difficulty in addressing these problems.
[23:11] <paultag> dzho: we talk about that often, I mean, he's a Debianite, and it's in our foundation documents that we must understand our users do require nonfree sometimes; and to be honest, RMS thinks the same thing
[23:11] <paultag> the FSF just needs to work to make things better
[23:11] <paultag> and you don't do that by saying "Oh, Gmail's OK"
[23:11] <dzho> RMS seems to have given himself more of a pass back when originally writing GNU.
[23:12] <paultag> because it's not granting end users freedom
[23:12] <paultag> which is a problem
[23:12] <Cheri703> gmail's not just ok, gmail is amazing :D
[23:12] <dzho> yeah, not arguing there.
[23:12] <Cheri703> hehe
[23:12] <dzho> d'oh
[23:12] <paultag> Cheri703: not in terms of user freedom
[23:12] <dzho> not arguing with paultag "which is a problem"
[23:12] <Cheri703> I know :)
[23:12] <paultag> aye
[23:12] <paultag> and I don't think it'd be right for the FSF to back gmail, etc, etc.
[23:12]  * Cheri703 lurves her google products
[23:13]  * dzho has still not signed into google on his android phone
[23:13] <dzho> google is as bad as apple in this case, nagging one to activate an account to use services.
[23:14] <drkokandy> Google lets you download all your data to export elsewhere or have a copy. I don't see how that's not supporting user freedom and choice
[23:14] <dzho> drkokandy: maybe some day you will see.
[23:14] <dzho> unless you can download that data *and* do the same operations on it using the same software, it is a partial freedom in these terms.
[23:15] <dzho> the same software that then offers you the 4 freedoms
[23:15] <dzho> there is a whole range of partial freedoms that proprietary software offers.
[23:15] <dzho> freedom to run the software, for instance . . . but usually only under very restricted conditions.
[23:16] <dzho> so, you have "freedom" there, but it doesn't pass the standard.
[23:16] <dzho> anyway, I'm off soon to exercise my freedom to eat dinner.
[23:17] <paultag> dzho: it's incomplete.
[23:17] <paultag> dzho++
[23:17] <paultag> erm, drkokandy*
[23:17] <paultag> I can't get a complete dump of all my data. They're OK, but the DLF is not complete.
[23:21] <Unit193> IMAP makes it easier to move email accounts, in several ways.  http://igurublog.wordpress.com/2012/11/05/gnome-et-al-rotting-in-threes/  Did I ever link that?
[23:22] <paultag> Unit193: it's not easy to put that data into another IMAP server
[23:24] <Unit193> Pretty sure I've done something like that, though. >_>