/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/10/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

cjwelborni'm not a big IRC user, how can I filter out all these system msgs like "blah joined", "blah left", etc. ?00:03
cjwelborndoh, wrong channel, sorry.00:03
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CatbuntuHi18:33
sandydo/ coffeecat18:54
sandydand elfy18:54
Iowanmeeting time...19:02
elfywe'll have a little wait and see if s.fox turns up19:02
elfybeat me to the post there Iowan19:02
CatbuntuWhat's the meeting about?19:08
IowanForum Council monthly meeting19:08
* jacob dances19:09
jacob(as is customary while waiting for meetings in #ubuntu-meeting)19:09
elfylol19:09
elfy#startmeeting Forum Council monthly meeting19:12
meetingologyMeeting started Sun Feb 10 19:12:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is elfy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.19:12
meetingologyAvailable commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired19:12
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Forum Council monthly meeting Meeting | Current topic:
elfyagenda at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ForumCouncilAgenda19:12
elfy#voters Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy19:12
meetingologyCurrent voters: Iowan cariboo907 coffeecat elfy19:12
elfy#topic minimal staff requirements19:13
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Forum Council monthly meeting Meeting | Current topic: minimal staff requirements
elfyok - think that's that done - so minimal staff requirements as per the discussion we've already had19:13
elfyoh hang on :)19:14
elfy#topic FC meeting19:14
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology | Forum Council monthly meeting Meeting | Current topic: FC meeting
elfy#subtopic minimal staff requirements19:14
elfyas far as I'm aware that's been discussed by staff - anyone want to add anything19:15
coffeecatnot really.19:15
cariboo907I thinks it's been discussed enough19:16
IowanI just ran through a quick review19:16
coffeecatI think we just need to vote it to make it "official"19:16
* elfy too19:17
elfyIowan: you ok with that?19:17
Iowan++++19:17
IowanJust waiting for ely to find the "vote" button.19:18
Iowan*Elfy19:18
elfy#vote Accept the minimal staff requirements as discussed in forum19:18
meetingologyPlease vote on: Accept the minimal staff requirements as discussed in forum19:18
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)19:18
elfy+119:18
meetingology+1 received from elfy19:18
Iowan+119:18
meetingology+1 received from Iowan19:18
coffeecat+119:18
meetingology+1 received from coffeecat19:18
cariboo907+119:18
meetingology+1 received from cariboo90719:18
elfy#endvote19:18
meetingologyVoting ended on: Accept the minimal staff requirements as discussed in forum19:18
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:18
meetingologyMotion carried19:18
elfy#subtopic Place for users to discuss Agenda Items19:19
Iowan... gotta go look...19:19
elfyOK - so I'm off the opinion that we should provide a place on forum so users can have somewhere to discuss agenda items19:19
coffeecatPerhaps a single sticky thread for each agenda item in FF&H, but it'll make the sticky area cluttered.19:20
cariboo907+1, as usually all the links are to discussions in SCC19:20
elfyNot sure of the detail - perhaps a stuck thread we can use to index threads in FFH then seperate threads19:20
elfyhow about that ^^ coffeecat ?19:20
coffeecatelfy - that's better - 1 sticky linked to discussions threads.19:20
elfywe can then link staff threads and user threads in agenda as well19:21
coffeecatyes - that works for me19:21
cariboo907That's what I 'd like to see19:21
elfyseems logical19:21
IowanI'm unsure of details- hafta see it, I guess.19:22
IowanThere is link to agenda - should dthat expand?19:22
elfynot sure what you mean Iowan19:23
IowanMe either... I just noticed link in Ubuntu Community Discussions19:23
IowanThat links to aenda wiki page19:23
Iowan... but you're talking FF&H link/sticky19:24
elfyoic - no - we'd have a index stuck in FFH - then we can just use normal threads for users to actually discuss agenda items19:24
cariboo907all the links in the agenda lead to SCC, we'd like the forum membership to be able to discuss agenda items19:24
elfyas it is most of the links in agenda are only any good for staff19:24
elfycariboo907: thanks +119:25
IowanFTR, an agenda  discussion area is a good idea19:25
elfyok19:25
elfyvote then?19:25
coffeecatyes19:25
cariboo907yes19:25
IowanYep - details tbd19:26
coffeecatno - we have some details I think ^^^19:26
elfy#vote Create stuck index in FFH then create threads as required for forum users to discuss items19:26
meetingologyPlease vote on: Create stuck index in FFH then create threads as required for forum users to discuss items19:26
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)19:26
Iowan+119:26
meetingology+1 received from Iowan19:26
cariboo907+119:26
meetingology+1 received from cariboo90719:26
elfy+119:26
meetingology+1 received from elfy19:26
coffeecat+119:26
meetingology+1 received from coffeecat19:26
elfy#endvote19:26
meetingologyVoting ended on: Create stuck index in FFH then create threads as required for forum users to discuss items19:26
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:26
meetingologyMotion carried19:26
elfy#subtopic Username Changes19:27
elfyok - I propose we formally stop the embargo on username changes19:27
elfyallow one change of they want it19:27
elfysee how it goes - if it's too much - then go back to not doing it19:28
Iowan* with reason19:28
elfyI'd not want to see us changing people more than once - enough reason for me :)19:28
coffeecatInteresting request in RC which Iowan fielded. I agree with what Iowan said. We need to say to these people if we change your username to your real name, you are stuck with it.19:28
cariboo907I don't have a problem with that, just so we don't have some members changing their user name, as often as they change their socks19:28
Iowan(maybe more)19:29
elfycariboo907: we say at outset we'll not do it19:29
cariboo907I know, this was just FTR :)19:29
coffeecatwe could rewrite the sticky.19:29
elfymaybe change CoC19:29
elfycoffeecat: at least that19:30
IowanI don't necessarily wanna forbid >1 change, but don't wanna advertise it.19:30
elfyI'd rather say 1 now - rather than the piecemeal thing we have at present19:30
coffeecatI agree - 1 change - that's it otherwise some would abuse it.19:31
coffeecatSo we could spell out - if you want a trivial change, that's it.19:31
elfyI can agree to that19:32
IowanAs currently, I'd opt for "special cases", but officially ...19:32
elfythis is the problem19:32
IowanEven first change is subject to a "vanity clause"19:32
elfyas it stands we've got threads where one says yes then 2 days later someone else says no19:33
cariboo907Isn't that what most name changes are  for, vanity?19:33
elfyone change should be enough imo19:33
elfycariboo907: +119:33
elfyI can't see any reason for more than one19:34
elfythat's enough to warrant expecting someone else to take time out of their day to do it19:34
IowanI'm +1 on softening restriction - it's the degree that is in question19:36
IowanI don't necessarily wanna post a "First namechange free!" announcement, either19:37
elfywell no - neither would I19:37
coffeecatI don't think we have to - simply revamp the sticky19:37
IowanThat part sounds good19:37
Iowan(sneak up on it)19:38
coffeecatAnd if people ask for trivial change or change to real name, ask: are you absolutely sure? Because when it's done, it's done.19:38
elfyif it becomes too much of a problem - we just go back anyway, I don't think the sticky was the result of anything but a discussion elsewhere19:38
cariboo907especially seeing as most members ignore the stickies :)19:38
elfylol19:38
coffeecatlol19:38
Iowanstickies? We have stickies?19:38
* coffeecat votes for post-dated stickies!19:38
elfy:)19:38
elfyso - do we have enough to work with, relax current state of name changes - ensure user knows they've got one bite, change back if it becomes necessary?19:40
coffeecatI think we have enough - draft a sticky and agree text in ml perhaps.19:40
Iowan+1 let's get rules softened - ali'l19:40
cariboo907I'd say yes to that19:40
elfyk19:40
* Iowan awaits vote19:41
elfy#vote Relax username change rule, follow up in the future if necessary19:41
meetingologyPlease vote on: Relax username change rule, follow up in the future if necessary19:41
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)19:41
elfy+119:41
meetingology+1 received from elfy19:41
Iowan+119:41
meetingology+1 received from Iowan19:41
cariboo907+119:41
meetingology+1 received from cariboo90719:41
coffeecat+119:41
meetingology+1 received from coffeecat19:41
elfy#endvote19:41
meetingologyVoting ended on: Relax username change rule, follow up in the future if necessary19:41
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:41
meetingologyMotion carried19:41
elfy#subtopic Discussion on #ubuntuforums IRC channel moderation19:42
elfynot sure Lord of Time is here to discuss this19:42
cariboo907I have no opinion on this, as I don't spend enough time on IRC19:42
elfymy opinion is there's not really any need to do anything - the few times it's a problem doesn't warrant any official response in my opinion19:43
coffeecatI get the feeling that there is not much appetite for this beyond encouraging mods to hang out in #ubuntuforums and help if necessary19:43
coffeecatIt shouldn't be part of the "official" task19:43
coffeecatimo19:43
elfyagreed19:44
IowanIf necessary, someone (CC?) may need to "hire" IRC moderators - as it isn't REALLY the forum19:44
elfyI'm happy enough to shelve this - if lot want's to follow up he can19:44
Iowan+119:45
coffeecat+119:45
cariboo907+119:45
elfyIowan: up to a point I agree, the only real issue is we allow a certain amount of 'freeplay' there19:45
Iowantable it!19:45
elfyvote on doing nothing for the time being then :)19:45
coffeecatlol19:45
jacobfwiw, anyone with the ubuntu/member/* mask can op in #ubuntuforums19:46
elfyjacob: thanks19:46
elfyI think lol19:46
* elfy foresees madness 19:46
elfy#vote Leave #ubuntuforums channel moderation for LoT to revisit if needed19:47
meetingologyPlease vote on: Leave #ubuntuforums channel moderation for LoT to revisit if needed19:47
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)19:47
elfy+119:47
meetingology+1 received from elfy19:47
cariboo907+119:47
meetingology+1 received from cariboo90719:47
coffeecat+119:47
meetingology+1 received from coffeecat19:47
Iowan+119:47
meetingology+1 received from Iowan19:47
elfy#endvote19:47
meetingologyVoting ended on: Leave #ubuntuforums channel moderation for LoT to revisit if needed19:47
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:019:47
meetingologyMotion carried19:47
jacob(actually, i might be wrong about the ubuntu/member thing, that used to be there, but isn't now)19:48
elfy#subtopic Referral links on ubuntuforums19:48
Iowansure, NOW you mention it :)19:48
elfyjacob: ok19:48
jacob:D :D :D19:48
elfycoffeecat can lead on this one :)19:49
coffeecatOK - just getting my head round it.19:49
coffeecatthree bits: referral links in sigs, referral links from new members who have signed up to spam forum with link, and post links form extablished members. Is this a good way of dividing up the subject?19:50
coffeecat#2 seems obvious.19:50
elfyyea - logical to me19:51
elfyand #2 is obvious19:51
cariboo907works for me19:51
coffeecatI'll say straight up I'm not comfortable with referral links in sigs even with estabished members.19:51
Iowansig links at least require 25 previous posts...19:52
Iowanalthough that's more of a permanent as19:52
coffeecattrouble with sig links is that they appear in every post - obvious I know - but it's spammy, imo19:52
Iowan*ad19:52
cariboo907we've had them as long as I've been a member of the forum19:52
Iowan(We've had spammers, too ;)19:53
cariboo907Ubuntu One now has referrals too19:53
IowanThat's unfortunate, as it's officially sanctioned.19:54
IowanKinda sets a precedent19:54
cariboo907that's why I feel we should allow referral links in sigs, but ban someone that only joins to provide a link19:55
elfyperhaps make it a perk if you've got as far as being registered users plus ...19:55
coffeecatpossibly not a precedent - Ubuntu1 on referrals says family and friends. I'll see if I can find link.19:55
cariboo907that would work for me19:55
elfyhowever19:55
elfyI would not want to have hundreds of reports just to deal with sig links19:55
cariboo907coffeecat, https://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/referral-program-terms/19:56
coffeecathttps://one.ubuntu.com/help/faq/referral-program-terms/ - quite clearly family and friends so I don't think a precedent for forum.19:56
elfyespecially given "must not send any referral request in violation of applicable law (e.g. spam)"19:57
coffeecatok - it goes onto say publicly19:57
IowanCoC comes to mind...19:57
cariboo907with the stipulation that you must disclose that you are getting extra storage, that may take more than 3 lines in a sig :)19:59
IowanHome pages can also be problems... but they, too, have been around longer than I have. (back on topic)20:00
elfyhorny subject this is turning into20:00
cariboo907we may need to discuss this more, before voting on it20:01
elfyyea20:01
cariboo907I'd suggest we table it until our next meeting20:01
elfyat least we can discuss parts further perhaps20:01
Iowan+1 We'r into overtime20:01
coffeecat+1 for more debate in SCC.20:01
elfyok20:02
elfy#vote Referral links - table for further discussion20:02
meetingologyPlease vote on: Referral links - table for further discussion20:02
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)20:02
cariboo907=120:02
Iowan+120:02
meetingology+1 received from Iowan20:02
cariboo907+120:02
meetingology+1 received from cariboo90720:02
elfy+120:02
meetingology+1 received from elfy20:02
coffeecat+120:02
meetingology+1 received from coffeecat20:02
elfy#endvote20:02
meetingologyVoting ended on: Referral links - table for further discussion20:02
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:020:02
meetingologyMotion carried20:02
elfy#subtopic  Forum Upgrade20:02
elfythis subject could take as long as the other 4 or 5 ...20:03
coffeecatperhaps not...20:03
elfy:)_20:03
elfyfirst up is the proposed date20:03
elfyat present we are hoping to do this at the end of February20:04
elfycoffeecat: can you do the points - I've forgotten where we were with trying to drive the bot :|20:05
cariboo907Is there anything that will stop this from happening?20:05
elfycariboo907: nothing major20:05
coffeecatdeej - one of the sysadmins - is seeing if IS can do 28th Feb (Thurs).20:05
cariboo907aside from the user name location?20:05
coffeecat08:00 UTC start. Needs up to 8 hours....20:05
coffeecatSo hopefully done by 16:00 UTC on the Thurs.20:06
coffeecatTHen we start picking up the pieces. :/20:06
coffeecatcariboo907, there are some usability issues still outstanding on staging, but no real show-stoppers...20:07
elfycariboo907 Iowan - the thinking being that if we try and do it UK time we havew 3/5ths of us about while it's going on20:07
coffeecatIf we wait till we've fixed them all, it'll be the turn of the next millenium...20:07
cariboo907that worksd for me, as I'm at work during those hours, and off Friday, Saturday and most of Sunday20:07
coffeecatcariboo907, that's great..20:07
elfyexcellent - so we'd have 4/5ths kind of about for the few days following20:07
coffeecatapart from fidlling in admincp, we'll need people with experience of staging to help users in FF&H...20:08
IowanUK time makes sense20:08
elfycoffeecat: +120:08
IowanI'm gonna be climbing another learning curve, too.20:09
elfyI would say that the most important decision we need to make is20:09
coffeecatelfy - suggest we make another pleas to any modertaors here atm to get into staging and find their way around.20:09
elfydo we hold back on the upgrade for 'little' issues - or deal with those after upgrade20:10
cariboo907if they are 'little issues' I say lets do it20:10
IowanWe've been waiting for these upgrades since...???20:10
elfycariboo907 Iowan - we have things like tags not showing in forum view without mouseover20:10
coffeecatmark thread as solved not working....20:10
elfyI say - go forward - deal with those things afterwards20:10
elfycoffeecat: +120:10
coffeecatuser profile in wrong place in posts....20:10
coffeecatBut none of these are showstoppers imo20:11
elfythat seems to be the thing we are dealing with - are things mods to templates or addons20:11
jacobdoes the main page still default to the activity view? (instead of the forum list)20:11
elfyjacob: no20:11
jacobelfy: good good, that was my only gripe :)20:11
elfyjacob: if the last time you looked then it will look much different now :)20:12
jacobediting my hosts file as we speak20:12
coffeecatjacob - it looks like a usable forum now! ;-)20:12
jacobor type20:12
IowanI presume these little issues will still be attacked - even if date is set...20:13
elfyIowan: yea - priorities20:13
coffeecatIowan - the way I see it is the little outstanding issues a re little different in kind from the sort of things we need to attend to week by week. The forum is always in flux.20:13
elfyas and aside any ubuntu member who gained membership by way of forum activity is welcome to check out the staging forum - send a PM via forum to one of the admins20:14
jacobooh, that looks nice. some bits and bobs weird with the theme, but it's looking great otherwise20:14
cariboo907I've had a couple of pm's from ubuntu members20:14
Iowancoffeecat:  My point, exactly.20:14
elfyjacob: the dots will change - hiccup I think :)20:15
elfycariboo907: yea - think I got about 620:15
* coffeecat admits mea culpa on the dors. I pointed Merk at the wrong graphic. Sackcloth and ashes here.20:15
elfy:D20:15
coffeecat*dots*20:15
elfyI wasn't pointing fingers coffeecat :)20:15
coffeecatlol20:15
elfytime moving on now - we were late and now at an hour :)20:16
coffeecatelfy - I think wheels have been set in motion for 28th....20:16
elfycoffeecat: I know deej was going to post to ticket re date after talking to IS20:17
cariboo907do we need to vote on an official date to do the upgrade?20:17
IowanDoes this item require anything official?20:17
elfycoffeecat: do we wait for end of 11th - then post20:17
Iowan(out-typed)20:17
coffeecatI suggest we only need to vote if there is any objection to 28th...20:17
elfycariboo907 Iowan - I think we need to vote on a couple of things20:17
coffeecatOf course we don't know yet whether IS can do the 28th20:17
elfydate and moving anyway if the only things stopping upgrade are 'niggles'20:18
Iowank ??20:18
elfyjono: you might want to look into the forum upgrade issues as well - being community manager ;)20:18
cariboo907+1 on the date, and if there are only niggles, +1 too20:18
elfy2 votes or one?20:19
Iowan220:19
elfyok20:19
Iowansame answer, though20:19
elfy#vote Approach IS to upgrade live forum on 28 Feb - starting aty 08:00UTC20:20
meetingologyPlease vote on: Approach IS to upgrade live forum on 28 Feb - starting aty 08:00UTC20:20
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)20:20
cariboo907+120:20
meetingology+1 received from cariboo90720:20
Iowan+120:20
meetingology+1 received from Iowan20:20
coffeecat+120:20
meetingology+1 received from coffeecat20:20
elfy+120:20
meetingology+1 received from elfy20:20
elfy#endvote20:20
meetingologyVoting ended on: Approach IS to upgrade live forum on 28 Feb - starting aty 08:00UTC20:20
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:020:20
meetingologyMotion carried20:20
IowanDoes that actually answer the wne vote?20:20
Iowan*2nd20:21
elfy#vote Upgrade forum to vB4 regardless of small theme/addon issues - further discussion in staff area if needed20:22
meetingologyPlease vote on: Upgrade forum to vB4 regardless of small theme/addon issues - further discussion in staff area if needed20:22
meetingologyPublic votes can be registered by saying +1, +0 or -1 in channel, (private votes don't work yet, but when they do it will be by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0 to me)20:22
cariboo907+120:22
meetingology+1 received from cariboo90720:22
Iowan+120:22
coffeecat+120:22
meetingology+1 received from Iowan20:22
meetingology+1 received from coffeecat20:22
elfy+120:22
meetingology+1 received from elfy20:22
elfy#endvote20:22
meetingologyVoting ended on: Upgrade forum to vB4 regardless of small theme/addon issues - further discussion in staff area if needed20:22
meetingologyVotes for:4 Votes against:0 Abstentions:020:22
meetingologyMotion carried20:22
elfyok - I think the only things left are the division of labour/team report20:23
elfywe can do those in admin channel or SCC imho20:23
coffeecat+120:23
Iowanlets...20:23
cariboo907+120:23
elfyIowan: lets +1 ? or lets something else :)20:24
Iowandidn't know it was a vote... OK +120:24
elfyit's not :p20:24
elfy#endmeeting20:24
=== meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Ubuntu Meeting Grounds | Calendar/Scheduled meetings: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/calendar | Logs: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs | Meetingology documentation: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology
meetingologyMeeting ended Sun Feb 10 20:24:45 2013 UTC.20:24
meetingologyMinutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-10-19.12.moin.txt20:24
meetingologyMinutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-10-19.12.html20:24
IowanOK - lets do those in admin channel or SCC imho20:24
elfyyep - that was my hope :)20:25

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