[01:04] <bregma> looking for some payout
[01:05] <genii-around> bregma: Thats what I figure too, greedy buggers
[01:06] <bregma> do we get to use use a subdomain like ca.ubuntu.com ?
[01:07] <genii-around> Since ca.archive.ubuntu.com exists i don't see why not.
[01:08] <genii-around> I don't ever recall seeing any <TLD>.ubuntu.com  before though
[01:11] <DarwinSurvivor> Canonical owns the trademark to ubuntu.ca, they *may* be able to force them to give it up...
[01:12] <DarwinSurvivor> Although they may need an official presense in Canada (seeing as it's CIRA) and I'm not sure if a LOCO is enough
[01:18] <DarwinSurvivor> we would qualify under C of http://cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Registrars/CPRregistrar.pdf as a valid domain owner
[01:19] <genii-around> Interesting. I noticed it has been registered since April 2005 which was the Hoary release time. Maybe they figured Canonical would pay them someday for it
[01:26] <bregma> Canonical Canada employs about 30 people and has a bricks-and-mortar presence in Montreal, I imagine that qualifies as an official presence
[01:28] <DarwinSurvivor> AHA
[01:28] <genii-around> I'm wondering now how to approach this. I'd really like to get that domain.
[01:28] <DarwinSurvivor> 3.5 a) of http://www.cira.ca/assets/Documents/Legal/Dispute/CDRPpolicy.pdf found on http://www.cira.ca/legal/policies/registrant-documents/
[01:28]  * genii-around ponders if there's some #ubuntu-legal channel
[01:29] <bregma> the loco people might be able to suggest something
[01:29] <genii-around> Since ubuntu.com was registered May 2004... hmm...
[01:29] <bregma> I imagine any sort of persuit would require corporate backing
[01:30] <DarwinSurvivor> I'm pretty sure Canonical could easily force the transfer under the "bad faith" section of the Dispute Policy
[01:31] <bregma> there's also http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
[01:35] <DarwinSurvivor> We could use that to convince Canonical to do something about it, but other than "it's registered", CIRA won't care much about Canonical's trademark policy
[01:36] <DarwinSurvivor> What might make a difference is whether their trademark is registered in *Canada* or just Europe
[01:36] <genii-around> I'm asking openly in -locoteams
[01:36] <DarwinSurvivor> ok
[01:36] <genii-around> ( maybe someone there could have a useful suggestion )
[01:37] <bregma> I imagine the best bet is to contact Canonical's legal counsel at the London office (they're all in the London office)
[01:37] <DarwinSurvivor> that makes sense
[01:37] <bregma> the have a couple of lawyers who specialize in internatinal intellectual copyright issues
[01:38] <DarwinSurvivor> though they may need a referral or something from a lower level (loco manager, etc) before they'll talk to us (their time is expensive after all)
[01:38] <bregma> I prefer dealing with the sales people, they buy rounds of drinks in the pub downstairs
[01:38] <genii-around> Heh. All the best lawyers seem to live in London. All the harassment from Sony seems to come from some barrister of theirs on Essex street...
[01:48] <dscassel> Canonical doesn't care about ubuntu.ccTLDs. It's up to the LoCo to get them if they want.
[01:49] <genii-around> dscassel: Interesting.
[01:49] <dscassel> I'm pretty sure ubuntu-ca had it, but lost it.  From our previous Toronto-based incarnation
[01:52] <genii-around> dscassel: For me the idea is not so much as if Canonical leaves it up to us to get that domain or not as we like, but that someone is holding it hostage to a degree
[02:14] <DarwinSurvivor> even if they (Canonical) don't care about the domain, are they willing to give us the right to use the trademark to get it back?
[02:15] <DarwinSurvivor> We don't want to wave a trademark in front of CIRA and then find out Canonical didn't authorize us to!
[02:15] <genii-around> Thats sort of what I'm wondering. At any rate, some response in -locoteams but nothing in -community-team yet. I think I'll take it up again tomorrow and go head out for beer.
[02:17] <genii-around> My irc will cut out when apt-get update && apt-get -y dist-upgrade && sync && shutdown -h now    ends :-)   Have a good night
[03:54] <dscassel> We can ask...
[15:05] <IdleOne> genii-around: get any more info on ubuntu.ca ?
[15:09] <genii-around> IdleOne: Haven't had time yet today to pursue it. But I intend to.
[15:09] <genii-around> First I have to find some 8-pair copper short-haul device and get prices on those, for work...
[15:11] <genii-around> Right now my current prospects for that are http://www.lanode.com/dsl/ethernet-first-mile-services-efm.html  and http://www.actelis.com/products/prod-ml680.php
[15:37]  * genii-around reads http://www.ubuntu.com/aboutus/trademarkpolicy
[15:40] <genii-around> Hm.. "We therefore allow the use of the Trademarks in this context, provided the Trademark is used in a manner consistent with the guidelines below" then.. "...there is no suggestion (through words or appearance) that your project is approved, sponsored, or affiliated with Ubuntu or its related projects unless it actually has been approved by and is accountable to the Ubuntu Community Council". Makes me wonder if we have to get Community
[15:40] <genii-around> Council vote to use ubuntu.ca
[16:03] <genii-around> IdleOne: popey makes a good point that we already have ubuntu-ca.org, but it basically just pisses me off that GoDaddy can sit on it like that
[16:11] <genii-around> Looks like the -qc team originally had it then it lapsed
[16:20] <MagicFab> dscassel, yes, "they" lost it
[16:20] <MagicFab> http://web.archive.org/web/20060613193137/http://ubuntu.ca/
[16:21] <DarwinSurvivor> Interesting, that was *after* the current registration date of 2005...
[16:21] <MagicFab> ask for the price, chip in. I've done this a few times, most likely won't cost more than a few hundred.
[16:22] <DarwinSurvivor> Depends on how evil the squatter is
[16:22] <MagicFab> So maybe it's just parked, you need to find out who originally registered it.
[16:22] <DarwinSurvivor> I had one that lapsed and got taken by the hosting provider themselves and they wanted over $7000 for it
[16:22] <DarwinSurvivor> and they had the nerve to call it a "service to preserve your domain"
[16:22] <genii-around> DarwinSurvivor: That would suck.
[16:23] <DarwinSurvivor> yeah, the one we lost was for a small community soapbox derby with a name that would be useless to anybody else (as it had the town name in it)
[16:23] <DarwinSurvivor> we ended up getting a new domain and letting them keep the old one, but ubuntu.ca is pretty unique
[16:28] <genii-around> If anything I feel this strengthens our case to have it freed up, since we have somewhat of a prior claim
[16:30] <MagicFab> instead of making assumptions, just search for ubuntu.ca at http://www.cira.ca/home-en/
[16:30] <MagicFab> the result page offers a form to contact the admin contact.
[16:31] <MagicFab> expalin the situation, don't mention compensation
[16:31] <genii-around> MagicFab: Ah, that might be a good way. Thanks for the suggestion.
[16:33] <genii-around> The parking page at GoDaddy for it, they want $69.99 to contact the owner ( which appears to be them currently although perhaps original registrant is just hidden by whois)
[16:34] <MagicFab> genii-around, yes, the "privacy" features are common nowadays. GoDaddy is a *business* so yes, that's a service they provide.
[16:34] <MagicFab> I find it very convenient - but I know my way around :)
[16:36]  * genii-around ponders whether to use his ubuntu.com email or gmail
[16:39] <IdleOne> I am not for the idea of the community chipping in. Canonical can and should do what is needed to get this domain and then hand it over to the community.
[16:40] <IdleOne> or they can keep it and let us use it, whatever. I think we (the community) already spend enough of our own money to help spread Ubuntu.
[16:44] <IdleOne> If we do have to pay to get the domain from our pockets then I think we should also be allowed to sell cd/dvd and tshirts, etc. to help fund the maintenance of the site, pay for release parties...
[16:44] <IdleOne> Canonical won't allow us to do that though aiui
[17:04] <genii-around> My email to domain owner: http://pastebin.ca/2313152
[19:23] <MagicFab> IdleOne, I am not either, but faced with lack of time vs. goals to achieve, I would.
[19:23] <MagicFab> IdleOne, many teams do exactly that.
[19:24] <MagicFab> genii-around, another question came to mind, what problem are you trying to solve by getting that other domain?
[19:32] <genii-around> MagicFab: My thought is that ubuntu.ca is an easier way to be be locally distinctive and found by the curious than navigating somehow to ubuntu-ca.org. We also  need an overhaul of the website anyways.
[19:35] <MagicFab> genii-around, nowadays the domain name is not as important, specially if it's parked.
[19:35] <MagicFab> I think Ubuntu Canada is doing fine with the current .org -> http://pix.toile-libre.org/?img=1360697679.png
[19:35] <MagicFab> of course that doesn't mean giving it up.. patience may pay off.