[01:44] <ali1234> if git format-patch added the mailing list i want to post to as a CC: should i also add it as To:?
[01:45] <ali1234> never mind, damn thing doesn't work anyway
[07:19] <knightwise> eeehlo
[07:20] <knightwise> how are you doing today ?
[08:31] <jacobw> morning campers
[08:43] <popey> Morning
[09:11] <Laney> meow
[09:16] <czajkowski> herrrrro
[09:20] <JamesTait> Happy World Radio Day, folks! :-D
[09:34] <kvarley> Ubuntu 12.10 64-bit - My laptop always boots up with the wireless turned off. How can I fix this?
[09:36] <brobostigon> good morning everyone,
[09:37] <popey> kvarley: how do you switch it on?
[09:38] <kvarley> popey: I go to the wireless indicator which makes me think software rather than hardware switch?
[09:51] <kvarley> I wasn't happy that I didn't have Steam on Ubuntu for years and now it's here I'm not happy that Steam is on Ubuntu - My wallet is thinning out rapidly!
[09:54] <mungbean_> i stil get plagued by the debconf window appearing when installing things from software centre
[09:54] <mungbean_> experienced it on loads of different isntalls
[10:12] <kvarley> What license is the ambiance theme under?
[10:14] <Laney> kvarley: /usr/share/doc/light-themes/copyright
[10:15] <kvarley> Laney: Thanks, I was looking in /usr/share/themes/Ambiance but couldn't see anything
[10:15] <Laney> apt-cache search ambiance reveals the package name
[10:15] <kvarley> Laney: Ah ok, thank you :)
[10:15] <Laney> then /usr/share/doc/<package>/copyright shows you the license info for every package
[10:16] <kvarley> Nice to know
[10:16] <kvarley> Looking at repackaging ambiance for another environment, when I'm forced to use a different environment other than unity I just miss ambiance too much!
[11:01] <davmor2> Morning All
[11:01] <davmor2> popey: :( on the phone dude
[11:08] <popey> yeah
[11:34] <DJones> Is it lazy to have a coffee machine in a home office? To me it makes perfect sense, makes sure I have enough to drink while working, I don't have to interupt what I'm doing to go downstairs to make a drink etc, my wife said its being lazy
[11:34] <davmor2> DJones: I have a Dolce Gusto beside me right now :)
[11:35] <DJones> davmor2: Good, I'm glad its not just me
[11:35] <davmor2> DJones: I don't you it constantly but it is there when I want a drink
[11:36] <DJones> This is an  8 cup percolator, fill it up and drink through the day as needed
[11:38] <dwatkins> DJones: I tend to take breaks to go to the kitchen and make a cup of tea whether I'm working at home or in the office, just to get away from my desk etc. in-between tasks.
[11:39] <dwatkins> so having a coffee machine isn't lazy, but it might mean I don't get regular breaks away from the machine to chill out
[11:41] <ubuntubhoy> Anyone able to help me get an old laptop with BCM4318 wifi working on 12.04 ?
[11:46] <dogmatic69> ubuntubhoy: just state the problem and someone might help.
[11:47] <ubuntubhoy> basically networking is enabled, but shows nothing
[11:48] <ubuntubhoy> iwlist sc an says the network is down
[11:48] <ubuntubhoy> I have checked a ton of stuff on Ask Ubuntu, but nothing has worked
[11:48] <dogmatic69> did you just install?
[11:48] <ubuntubhoy> yip
[11:48] <dogmatic69> did it work on the live disk?
[11:49] <ubuntubhoy> other than updating nothing has been added
[11:49] <ubuntubhoy> nope
[11:49] <ubuntubhoy> same on the live disk
[11:49] <dogmatic69> ok
[11:49] <dogmatic69> sometimes it works on live and not once installed
[11:49] <ubuntubhoy> but it did work on a previous version
[11:49] <ubuntubhoy> mother-in-laws laptop
[11:49] <ubuntubhoy> was doing a re-install
[11:49] <dogmatic69> what laptop is it?
[11:50] <ubuntubhoy> an old Acer Aspire 3630
[11:51] <dogmatic69> what does lshw show?
[11:53] <ubuntubhoy> basically says *-network disabled
[11:54] <ubuntubhoy> also has a *-remoteaccess UNCLAIMED above it
[11:54] <dogmatic69> there is a askabuntu that says its starts up disabled.
[11:54] <dogmatic69> did you try
[11:54] <dogmatic69> sudo rmmod -f ath5k
[11:54] <dogmatic69> sudo rfkill unblock all
[11:54] <dogmatic69> sudo modprobe ath5k
[11:55] <ubuntubhoy> yeah, saw that
[11:55] <ubuntubhoy> I have a BCM chip though
[11:55] <ubuntubhoy> not ath
[11:56] <dogmatic69> change the ath5k part maybe?
[11:56] <ubuntubhoy> BCM4318 [Airforce One 54g]
[11:56] <kvarley> Random question, my headset picks up a lot of noise. Is there any way to strip that out on-the-fly?
[12:02] <kvarley> Another q, how to I listen to my mic live? I remember on XP ages ago you could tick a box to "Listen to this device" or something similar
[12:02] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: where is it plugged in?
[12:02] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: unmute it
[12:03] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Plugged into the 3.5mm port on the side of my laptop that does both headphones and mic in one socket
[12:03] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: some of those are just noisy.. can't do anything about that
[12:03] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: Hehe ok :)
[12:03] <kvarley> MartijnVdS: It's a Wii U headset so I suspect it is just bad quality mic
[12:03] <kvarley> Might stick some foam on it
[12:04] <MartijnVdS> kvarley: I switched to an USB sound card/stick on my desktop because the default outputs were VERY noisy (I could hear almost every bit passing on the PCI-E bus)
[12:04] <kvarley> lol
[12:04] <kvarley> Lovely
[12:04] <kvarley> I was just seeing how much pain I'm inflicting upon other gamers when using the mic for online play
[12:05] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: did you install the broadcom wifi drivers?
[12:05] <ubuntubhoy> Dave2: think my issue is the firmware
[12:05] <ubuntubhoy> just going through something
[12:06] <ubuntubhoy> might be the answer
[12:06] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: what version of Ubuntu?
[12:06] <ubuntubhoy> 12.04
[12:07] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: open the dash type in jockey and see if it displays additional drivers
[12:07] <ubuntubhoy> just rebooting
[12:07] <ubuntubhoy> 2 secs
[12:07] <bigcalm> davmor2: you're slightly closer to Tamworth than I am. Go and fetch my new workstation from UPS would you? ;)
[12:08] <ubuntubhoy> Dave2: also, it hung trying to install additional drivers twice. Had to re-install
[12:08]  * czajkowski pokes davmor2 HOWDY
[12:08] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: check your tab completes
[12:09] <davmor2> czajkowski: how do
[12:10] <ubuntubhoy> Dave2: tab completes ?
[12:10] <davmor2> bigcalm: it's probably easier for you, 1. the A5 is close to you than it is me, 2. you'd need id if they let you collect :P
[12:10] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: I'm davmor2 not Dave2
[12:10] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[12:10] <ubuntubhoy> gotcha
[12:10] <ubuntubhoy> bad eyesight is bad
[12:10] <bigcalm> davmor2: it's due for delivery tomorrow. I'm just impatient
[12:12] <davmor2> bigcalm: if it has UEFI burn a cd/dvd rather than a pendrive, also use 64bit 12.10 + if you want to keep secureboot in place :)
[12:12] <bigcalm> davmor2: good to know, ta
[12:13] <bigcalm> davmor2: though until I have a new ssd for Ubuntu, I'll have to make do with Windows on the hdd. Work comes before play, sadly
[12:13] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: so the fact that the drivers weren't installed will mean that the wifi was permanently down
[12:15] <davmor2> bigcalm: yeap just a heads up, ie if you intend keeping windows 8 on it then it has to have secure boot in place, but the new UEFI menu will mean that it will happily allow you to boot both which is cool :)
[12:15] <bigcalm> davmor2: I ordered the machine with Windows 7
[12:16] <bigcalm> davmor2: if I go crazy, I'll be able get Windows 8 from our company. But I hope not to use Windows much at all
[12:16] <davmor2> bigcalm: I'd still double check if the UEFI is secureboot enabled for windows 7 I think MS backported
[12:17] <bigcalm> davmor2: oh, I expect the machine to be locked down like that. But 13.04 should 'Just Work', right? :)
[12:17] <AlanBell> I don't know if 32 bit will work
[12:17] <davmor2> bigcalm: 64bit 12.10 or 64bit 13.04 should just work yes
[12:17] <bigcalm> Ug, the snow is starting to settle again
[12:18] <bigcalm> davmor2: I have no reason, that I know of, to bother with 32bit any more
[12:18] <AlanBell> I have *no* idea why bug 585940 is still not fixed
[12:19] <bigcalm> Is there a reason for anybody to use 32bit on a modern machine?
[12:19] <AlanBell> it isn't fixed
[12:19] <davmor2> bigcalm: AlanBell: I think 64bit will be the default for 13.04 possibly
[12:21] <AlanBell> well that might be what the last comment means
[12:21] <Dave2> I was wondering why my pocket kept vibrating when I was at lunch
[12:22] <AlanBell> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-website-content/+bug/585940/comments/139 why don't the web team like bugs? Why is this a web team only problem? (it would affect the pressed disks)
[12:22] <AlanBell> I guess we will find out in April
[12:23] <davmor2> AlanBell: also I see from the steam client info that 32bit is still used quite a lot, but 64bit is definitely edging ahead :)
[12:23] <BigRedS> Nah, that last comment just means nobody's going to look at it
[12:23] <AlanBell> well yeah, it will be used quite a lot because we press 32 bit and recommend the 32 bit download
[12:24] <AlanBell> I would be astonished if anyone is running steam games on a processor that can't do 64 bit
[12:24] <davmor2> AlanBell: agreed
[12:24] <davmor2> AlanBell: and 64bit is the only secureboot enabled image too
[12:24] <BigRedS> I'm a bit bemused at the steam package being x86
[12:25] <ali1234> popey asking everyone to "cut them some slack" - ok, but that was 2.5 years ago :)
[12:25] <directhex> for steam, 64 bit is more popular than 32-bit by a 2:1 ratio
[12:25] <AlanBell> and now we have people downloading the 32 bit image, putting it on USB, finding it doesn't work on EFI and having to download 64 bit after figuring out why it doesn't work
[12:25] <directhex> davmor2, windows 7 and older don't support secure boot at all
[12:26] <directhex> davmor2, they don't support pure uefi boot either, you need CSM video bios support enabled to do a UEFI install of windows 7
[12:26] <directhex> vista sp1 x64 is needed for uefi
[12:27] <davmor2> directhex: I thought there was a back port for it I'm more than happy to be wrong about that though
[12:27] <davmor2> I hates the UEFI anyway
[12:27] <bigcalm> davmor2: why?
[12:28] <directhex> davmor2, you're mistaken. windows 8 is the only microsoft OS to support uefi secure boot.
[12:29] <davmor2> directhex: cool I hate windows 8 and secureboot so I can just bundle them together :)
[12:29] <ali1234> what about windows RT?
[12:30] <directhex> sigh
[12:30] <directhex> on x86-64
[12:30] <directhex> better?
[12:30] <ali1234> i dunno
[12:30] <ali1234> i asked because i don't know
[12:31] <directhex> windows rt and windows phone 8 also use uefi secure boot (on arm)
[12:31] <davmor2> bigcalm: It's a pain, because it is optimised for windows the minute that it detects a windows secureboot drive it starts booting from it but sometimes before the USB power is up meaning the pendrive isn't detected, when it is re-detected the pendrive is place below the HDD in boot order and so on
[12:31] <directhex> davmor2, that's uefi fast boot. turn that off.
[12:31] <BigRedS> that's an implementation issue rather than a uefi or secure boot issue per se, isn't it?
[12:32] <directhex> fast boot on my thinkpad boots ubuntu by default
[12:32] <davmor2> directhex: there is no option for it on this machine
[12:32] <BigRedS> I don't really mind jumping through one hoop when I want to install an OS in order that the other billion boots are quicker
[12:33] <directhex> on the thinkpad, under the "startup" menu, "boot mode" is set to "quick"
[12:33] <davmor2> directhex: but this was testing the UEFI on it's default setting to report the issues to the Ubuntu devs
[12:34] <directhex> it's nothing to do with usb receiving power, btw
[12:34] <davmor2> directhex: the only thing I have on the ideapad is OS Optimized Defaults [Win8 64bit]
[12:35] <davmor2> directhex: it was it was booting before the usbpendrive had start
[12:35] <davmor2> ed
[12:35] <directhex> of course. it's doing fast boot. that's intentional.
[12:35] <davmor2> directhex: but on this machine you can't turn off fastboot
[12:37] <davmor2> directhex: also if the pendrive powered up before the machine booted windows it did the right thing it was just trying to get it to power up twice on the trot in order to select it as primary boot the first time and then boot from it the second
[12:37] <davmor2> directhex: it's wasn't the best experience :(
[12:38] <davmor2> directhex: from DVD though it worked flawlessly
[12:38] <directhex> http://sdrv.ms/YcOrCN
[12:39] <directhex> davmor2, so when pressing the "select boot device" button with a usb drive plugged in, it won't let you pick the usb device?
[12:40] <ali1234> heh, remember when you had to solder a bigger capacitor on your amiga so that it would wait longer for hd to spin up? nothing ever changes
[12:40] <davmor2> directhex: there isn't a select boot device button I hit ever option I could fine F2 goes into the UEFI/Bios screen and that is it
[12:40] <ali1234> well except that you can't just solder on a bigger capacitor these days
[12:40] <davmor2> s/fine/find
[12:42] <directhex> davmor2, and the windows 8 boot manager? should let you do all kinds of things, e.g. boot arbitrary uefi apps from usb
[12:43] <directhex> http://blogs.msdn.com/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/communityserver-blogs-components-weblogfiles/00-00-01-29-43-metablogapi/0407.1_2D002D00_Boot_2D00_Options_2D00_menu_5F00_0F869C74.jpg
[12:44] <davmor2> directhex: possibly but it's default is to boot windows 8 which it starts doing before you get chance to tell it to do anything else.  Never seen that page at all
[12:44] <directhex> davmor2, Settings, Change PC Settings, General, Advanced Start Up
[12:46] <davmor2> directhex: nice, I'll keep that in mind.  However that doesn't take away from the fact that UEFI is going to be a pain for a lot of novice users trying to install Ubuntu for the first time which is the issue we were trying to resolve by gaining data on it
[12:47] <directhex> davmor2, and i'm giving you data. every uefi implementation is different and badly behaved - the only thing which is the same for every single person is windows boot manager.
[12:49] <davmor2> directhex: indeed, and it is far easier then running the gauntlet with UEFI,  which then takes you back to UEFI sucks ;)
[12:49] <directhex> well, how about simply announcing "ubuntu doesn't support computers made after 2012" - that'd be the simplest way to avoid UEFI support issues
[12:49] <directhex> 2006 if you include (uefi-based) intel macs
[12:50] <directhex> around 2006ish if you include MSI's "clickbios" uefi, which they shipped for years before any os would boot on it
[12:50] <davmor2> directhex: hahaha, to be honest if all UEFI systems included a press F11 to change boot device no of this would be an issue
[12:51] <directhex> sadly, "boot device list" is a toggle which is off by default on here. and not available on most.
[12:54] <BigRedS> I really wish that UEFI secureboot talk at fosdem was actually about UEFI and not Monsanto...
[12:54] <directhex> BigRedS got it in one though - this stuff involves hoops to speed up boot. every second the system is waiting for user input rather than booting is a wasted second any time you *don't* want to change things
[12:54] <davmor2> directhex: indeed, it appears to me that the manufactures + MS are trying hard to make it stick to the OS version they install to make the user/support/ms's lives easier.  Which to be fair I think is a good idea, but then those users are never likely to be playing with the bios/uefi anyway.  Catch 22 I guess
[12:55] <directhex> davmor2, my thinkpad boots the first uefi application alphabetically. "ubuntu" is earlier than "Windows Boot Manager" :D
[12:55] <BigRedS> nah, it should be easy to break my own things, it should just be obvious that once I've done that it's my fault.
[12:56] <BigRedS> Didn't macs solve the waiting issue about a billion years ago by having you hold down the 'c' key or something if you didn't want it to just get into OSX as soon as possible?
[12:56] <davmor2> directhex: I'm assuming mine would if I had dual booted
[12:56] <Laney> oh come on snow
[12:56] <Laney> I have to cycle to town
[12:57] <directhex> BigRedS, apple's firmware engineers are less moronic than the average taiwanese odm
[12:57] <davmor2> bigcalm: ^ does all that answer your Why by the way :)
[12:57] <ali1234> it's funny because i had exactly this conversation with the meego devs
[12:58] <ali1234> them: "we can't have a boot menu because it would slow down the boot"
[12:58] <ali1234> me: "just check for a held key like grub does"
[12:59] <directhex> some keyboard controllers are a bit broken, and interpret "held key" at boot as "broken keyboard, disable keyboard support"
[12:59] <MartijnVdS> "But someone could be holding it accidentally"
[12:59] <BigRedS> directhex: yeah. I'm astonished at how much of a not-standard uefi has turned out to be
[13:00] <directhex> BigRedS, it doesn't matter if it's a standard. the people doing the implementation are the cheapest pay-per-hour coders in india, subcontracted by already cheap people in taiwan
[13:00] <davmor2> BigRedS: I'm not MS had something to do with it, they force ooxml on us and then don't follow their own standard ;)
[13:01] <davmor2> directhex: no to mention the fact that if one bios/UEFI is a cent cheaper they will switch
[13:02] <BigRedS> haha, yeah, but so far I've managed to avoid ooxml. Bioses are things I interact with daily and I'm really not looking forward to 'u'efi arriving...
[13:02] <directhex> am i the only person here who's been using efi fine for years?
[13:02] <directhex> as in since 2006?
[13:03] <BigRedS> nah, there's several macbooks in here aren't there/
[13:03] <davmor2> directhex: I have no issues with the system once the OS I want to use is on, it's just the getting on that is the issue :)
[13:05] <davmor2> directhex: to be fair I think it has some nice features over the bios especially if you get a asus mb with the pretty gfx UEFI
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> davmor2: I had pretty GFX in my bios
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> but the bios was really showing its age, from an API-side
[13:09] <MartijnVdS> so _something_ had to be done.. I don't know if UEFI is the best :)
[13:10] <directhex> it's simple, guys
[13:10] <directhex> bios only works in 16-bit
[13:10] <directhex> we won't have 16-bit-capable processors for ever
[13:10] <directhex> efi began because itanium isn't 16-bit-capable
[13:10] <davmor2> directhex: :D
[13:11] <directhex> that's not me being a smartarse, that's the potted history. bios is 16 bit. bios boot is 16 bit.
[13:11] <directhex> amd64 processors can act as 64/32-bit, ot 16/32-bit
[13:11] <directhex> so they can do the 80186 boot
[13:12] <davmor2> directhex: Oh I agree,  I think it's just missing some minor things that would make it and Ideal replacement.
[13:14] <ali1234> UEFI missing things?
[13:15] <ali1234> people usually complain it is too complicated
[13:16] <Dave2> the two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive
[13:17] <cliftonts> Hi all
[13:17] <cliftonts> Save me! I'm setting up machines for a company and it's driving me crazy!
[13:17] <cliftonts> I think a monkey designed their software suite
[13:22] <cliftonts> Well, you are a chatty lot!
[13:35] <BigRedS> you didn't really offer a means for us to save you
[13:36] <cliftonts> I'm not sure there is an easy way
[13:36] <cliftonts> win 7 with some dodgy custom package management system bolted on
[13:36] <cliftonts> I've been trying to install anti-virus for an hour now and it keeps failing
[13:37] <shauno> custom package management makes me cringe.  my work machine has been trying (and failing) to install some .net updates on the hour, every hour, for 3 weeks now
[13:40] <cliftonts> get this one, the download of anti virus kept failing and the pc needed a reboot anyway so I thought why not
[13:40] <ixxvil> hi
[13:40] <cliftonts> I now can't download the anti virus because I'm not logged in, logging in tells me not having anti virus is a violation of the terms of service and kicks me out!
[13:42] <MartijnVdS> \o/
[13:43] <cliftonts> I do sometimes wonder if Linux is a curse. It makes working with windows such a headache when you know there is a better way.
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> cliftonts: I don't mind Windows 7, as long as I get to install and manage it myself
[13:44] <MartijnVdS> oh and it should run on SSD so it's actually quick
[13:45] <MartijnVdS> (and for some things linux is way superior, like debugging network problems etc.)
[13:46] <cliftonts> This time it's not Linux as such, but the methodology behind it. I mean this would be much easier to have a ready made custom install cd
[13:46] <cliftonts> or perhaps all the software in a repository, I'll take tick, tick, tick apply!
[13:47] <cliftonts> And everything is locked down. The email system is so custom you'd never be able to use it on linux because it has been designed to lock the company in to it's supplier
[13:49] <madfish> exit
[13:53] <cliftonts> eh?
[14:09] <OliveiraBorges> anybody help me how to configure streaming live
[14:14] <ubuntubhoy> davmor2: if you are about are you able to offer any more advice mate ?
[14:14] <cliftonts> It's not really my speciality but perhaps it might help to give a little more info. What software you are trying to use, is this within your own network or over the net? etc
[14:14] <ubuntubhoy> got to a point where it is stuck on 'wireless is disabled by hardware switch'
[14:15] <ubuntubhoy> after installing the firmware and blacklisting what I think I have to
[14:15] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: rfkill list all
[14:16] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: then try sudo rfkill unblock all
[14:16] <cliftonts> Aah, so it's not the streaming that's the problem, but the network connection
[14:18] <ubuntubhoy> K
[14:20] <ubuntubhoy> davmor2: no change, but list states that it is hard block
[14:22] <ixxvil> totally stuck on this one
[14:22] <ixxvil> any ideas anyone
[14:22] <ixxvil> how do you password protect a dir with forced ssl
[14:22] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: have you tried hitting the button to enable wifi?
[14:22] <ixxvil> ive got ssl installed, ssl is running just fine
[14:22] <ixxvil> the certs are in place
[14:22] <ixxvil> but the dir just wont give me a login page
[14:23] <ixxvil> if i remove the ssl, it seems to work
[14:23] <ubuntubhoy> Dave2: yeah, it works fine in Win
[14:23] <ubuntubhoy> grr
[14:23] <jpds> ixxvil: I think you're confusing SSL with password auth.
[14:23] <ubuntubhoy> davmor2: ^^
[14:23] <ixxvil> jpds:  no im not
[14:23] <ixxvil> jpds: ive got a password auth htaccess file in place for the dir i want protected
[14:23] <ixxvil> it works without ssl
[14:24] <ixxvil> moment i turn ssl on it just doesnt,
[14:24] <BigRedS> apart from the SSL* directives what's different in your SSL vhost from your cleartext one?
[14:24] <ubuntubhoy> davmor2: Thanks for the help mate - gonna re-install and see if I get better from clean incase anything I have previously done has caused it
[14:25] <BigRedS> what do you get instead of the login page?
[14:25] <ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39122
[14:25] <ixxvil> this is what i have in my htaccess file
[14:25] <BigRedS> and are you expecting a login page (i.e. some code you wrote that makes a webpage) or a login box (the browser's built-in pop-up box asking for a password)?
[14:25] <ixxvil> just the browser's popup
[14:26] <BigRedS> what do you have in your vhost config?
[14:26] <ixxvil> you mean default-ssl?
[14:26] <davmor2> ubuntubhoy: when you do select install 3rd party drivers and connect it to the internet via a cable if you can
[14:26] <BigRedS> only if you're hitting the default ssl vhost
[14:27] <ixxvil> where is this vhost config file?
[14:27] <BigRedS> when you use SSL do you get the page that's behind the auth, just without the auth, or do you go somewhere completely different?
[14:27] <ixxvil> i ve been googling and some people mention a vhost.conf
[14:27] <ixxvil> there isnt one here, but i do have in etc/apache2/sites-available/default-ssl
[14:27] <BigRedS> normally you'll have a file in /etc/apache2/sites-available that defines your vhost and you will have enabled it with a2ensite
[14:27] <BigRedS> you might have just edited the defaults
[14:28] <ixxvil> yes sites-available
[14:28] <BigRedS> but exactly how you did it isn't that important. What is important is that the SSL vhost is the same as the non-SSL one
[14:28] <BigRedS> it sounds like you've got different DocumentRoots, depending on what it is that you *do* see on the SSL  connection
[14:29] <BigRedS> (obviously the SSL vhost will have the SSL* directives (SSLCertificateFile, SSLCertificateKeyFile etc.) different, but the rest should be the same
[14:29] <ixxvil> if im using ssl
[14:29] <ixxvil> the big lock and the cert is up there
[14:29] <ixxvil> ssl works
[14:29] <ixxvil> the popup page doesnt come up
[14:29] <BigRedS> what does come up?
[14:29] <BigRedS> the page you're trying to protect?
[14:29] <BigRedS> some other page?
[14:29] <ixxvil> the directory is wide open, it doesnt ask for a usernmae or pass
[14:29] <ixxvil> no
[14:29] <ixxvil> it opens the directory... its not paswd protected
[14:29] <BigRedS> but the directory you want to hide, or a different one?
[14:30] <ixxvil> the one i want to hide
[14:30] <BigRedS> okay, so they're serving from the same place. Have you any AllowOverride directives in either vhost?
[14:30] <ixxvil> i dont know what this vhost
[14:30] <ixxvil> do you mean default-ssl?
[14:31] <BigRedS> http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/vhosts/
[14:31] <BigRedS> vhost is a feature of apache, which that page sort-of explains at the top
[14:31] <BigRedS> default-ssl is a file. It by default contains a single vhost definition
[14:32] <ixxvil> thats all good to know
[14:32] <ixxvil> what should i be look at and where?
[14:32] <ixxvil> looking at
[14:33] <ixxvil> default-ssl has a directive
[14:33] <ixxvil> for var/www
[14:33] <BigRedS> are you looking to just get this working, or use this to learn about apache?
[14:33] <ixxvil> to get it working
[14:33] <BigRedS> cool, post your default-ssl config on pastebin and I'll see if I can see what's broken :)
[14:34] <ixxvil> ok cool
[14:34] <ixxvil> thanks
[14:35] <BigRedS> ah, also the normal 'default' one, unless you created another file for the cleartext vhost
[14:35] <ixxvil> the default one or the default-ssl
[14:36] <BigRedS> both
[14:36] <ixxvil> default-ssl has the modified stuff
[14:36] <ixxvil> about the ca and the key etc
[14:37] <BigRedS> yeah, those're just paths to the files, though, aren't they?
[14:37] <BigRedS> If you want to edit those lines out or something go for it ; I don't need to know what they've got
[14:38] <ixxvil> its been edited and it's been working
[14:38] <ixxvil> i didnt change anything else
[14:40] <BigRedS> Right. Basically, when you hit your server on port 443 Apache serves up pages according to what's in default-ssl, and so does it over SSL. When you hit it on port 80 it follows whats in default.
[14:40] <BigRedS> Some difference between the two is causing it to not honour your auth
[14:41] <BigRedS> likely, -ssl is missing an AllowOverride (though that should raise an error), pointing at the wrong dir (though you've already said it isn't) or something that I've not yet thought of
[14:41] <BigRedS> it's hard to guess what else without looking at your actual config
[14:41] <ubuntubhoy> davmor2: working a treat now - cheers for the help.
[14:42] <ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39123
[14:42] <ixxvil> thats default-ssl
[14:43] <ixxvil> well
[14:43] <ixxvil> i switched it from 80 to 443
[14:43] <ixxvil> and it didnt work either
[14:43] <ixxvil> besides i should've been using 443 there, cause i want it to go through ssl first and then to the login page
[14:43] <BigRedS> default-ssl should never have been :80
[14:43] <BigRedS> go though ssl first?
[14:44] <jpds> BigRedS: Make sure the auth is behind SSL.
[14:44] <ixxvil> not sure where it says 80 except in my htaccess file
[14:44] <ixxvil> jpds: yeah thats what ive been reading
[14:44] <ixxvil> the ssl should kick in first or something
[14:44] <BigRedS> the browser opens an SSL tunnel and then sends http down it
[14:45] <BigRedS> when using https
[14:45] <BigRedS> the directory you wish to protect, is that in /var/www?
[14:45] <ixxvil> yes
[14:45] <ixxvil> var/www/dir
[14:46] <BigRedS> The "AllowOverride None" in "<Directory /var/www/>" probably isn't helping
[14:46] <BigRedS> I think you want AllowOverride AuthConfig
[14:48] <BigRedS> Oh yeah, I spoke to your hr person at uds :)
[14:48] <BigRedS> jpds ^
[14:48] <BigRedS> we asked for you back :)
[14:48] <ixxvil> o changed it
[14:48] <ixxvil> restarted apache
[14:48] <ixxvil> yeah still nothing
[14:48] <BigRedS> ixxvil: did it help?>
[14:48] <ixxvil> no login page
[14:49] <Azelphur> https://twitter.com/Azelphur/status/301704335052660737 ah, templating.
[14:49] <jpds> BigRedS: Heh. :)
[14:49] <ixxvil> double checked
[14:50] <ixxvil> not getting it
[14:50] <BigRedS> jpds: she said no :(
[14:50] <BigRedS> ixxvil: so it's just serving the index of that /var/www/dir?
[14:50] <jpds> BigRedS: In another circumstance "I spoke to your HR person" would set a different tone.
[14:50] <jpds> BigRedS: I can't imagine why.
[14:50] <BigRedS> hahaha
[14:50] <BigRedS> I was a tad drunk on canonical-funded wine :)
[14:50] <ixxvil> yeah
[14:51] <czajkowski> BigRedS: such a lush :p
[14:51] <ixxvil> its just showing the same dir with 1 file in it
[14:51] <czajkowski> anyone coming to http://hackntalk.eventbrite.com/  we could have  a bug jam there during some of the day if we had interested people
[14:51] <BigRedS> ixxvil: does the dir you're after have only one file in it? It might be best to see the default config (the cleartext vhost) since that one is doing what you want it to
[14:51] <BigRedS> isn't it?
[14:51] <BigRedS> czajkowski: I should be there
[14:51] <czajkowski> yay
[14:52] <ixxvil> the default config?
[14:52] <czajkowski> now we just need a laney to keep us entertained and it'll be like the last one
[14:52] <ixxvil> what do you mean
[14:52] <Laney> WOT
[14:52] <ixxvil> the dir im after has only 1 file in it because i put only 1 file there
[14:52] <BigRedS> it's the first weekend after I move to London, and I can't think what would've gone wrong enough for me to not be able to get there
[14:52] <BigRedS> ixxvil: cool. Just checking you're seeing all the files in the dir
[14:52] <Laney> interesting
[14:52] <ixxvil> ye
[14:52] <Laney> i will probably be in london the day after that
[14:52] <ixxvil> so did a few others
[14:52] <BigRedS> ixxvil: yeah, the config for the non-ssl vhost. /etc/apache2/sites-available/default
[14:53] <ixxvil> default looks like default, it barely has anything but a few directives but i can paste it
[14:53] <BigRedS> czajkowski: Nah, I'm looking forward to spending the day laughing at you getting frustrated by computers
[14:53] <czajkowski> BigRedS: shall be on my best behaviour
[14:53] <jpds> BigRedS: So, everyday?
[14:53] <czajkowski> there are 38 people signed up for this
[14:53] <czajkowski> I've room for 70
[14:53] <BigRedS> ixxvil: yeah, please. I don't have a ubuntu server handy and it's probably different from Debian by enough to be annoying :)
[14:53] <BigRedS> czajkowski: pft. I bet that'll change
[14:54] <czajkowski> BigRedS: I dont want numbers to drop so no :)
[14:54] <BigRedS> hahaha
[14:54] <BigRedS> czajkowski: bill it as a feature!
[14:54] <ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39124
[14:54] <czajkowski> bah
[14:55] <BigRedS> ixxvil: ta! hang on a mo!
[14:55] <Azelphur> I just realised, I broke every single aspect of TalkTalk, at every single step of the way
[14:55] <Azelphur> dam me and my continual breaking of things :(
[14:56] <czajkowski> Azelphur: tis ok I break things too
[14:56] <czajkowski> badly usually
[14:56] <czajkowski> :/
[14:56] <Azelphur> lol
[14:56] <czajkowski> davmor2: mocks me when I do
[14:56] <czajkowski> I'll get him on your larting case
[14:56] <Azelphur> czajkowski: but I broke their signup system, line allocation, phone system, and newsletter system
[14:56] <Azelphur> I don't think there's anything else to break
[14:56] <Azelphur> xD
[14:57] <czajkowski> you say this
[14:58] <czajkowski> that's surely a challenge
[14:58] <davmor2> czajkowski: No I mock you because all you do is use it, everyone else tries to break it and can't :P
[14:58] <BigRedS> ixxvil: apart from "AllowOverride All" vs "AllowOverride None" I can't see anything
[14:58] <BigRedS> which is annoying. I get this far too frequently with apache :(
[14:58] <czajkowski> davmor2: I'm a good test case
[14:59] <BigRedS> and, if you're now at least allowing AuthConfig to be overridden that shouldn't be an issue
[14:59] <davmor2> czajkowski: No you're not because nobody else can reproduce it :P
[14:59] <BigRedS> jpds: every day?
[14:59] <ixxvil> well from google
[14:59] <ixxvil> some of them say to modify the vhosts conf
[14:59] <jpds> BigRedS: "getting frustrated by computers".
[14:59] <ixxvil> and adding a directive entry
[14:59] <BigRedS> ixxvil: that sounds centosy
[15:00] <BigRedS> this sites-enabled thing is a debianism
[15:00] <BigRedS> well, or just old. Apache 1.x was all about /etc/apache/vhosts.conf
[15:00] <ixxvil> wait
[15:00] <BigRedS> really, I'd get the chapter on webservers out of a "how to do ubuntu servers" book
[15:00] <ixxvil> you want me to change default-ssl Allow to Auth
[15:00] <BigRedS> yeah
[15:00] <ixxvil> and then in default what?
[15:00] <BigRedS> jpds: ah! Yeah, so I hear. I only get to see it infrequently
[15:00] <BigRedS> but it's among my favourite spectacles
[15:00] <ixxvil> with authconfig nothing happened
[15:01] <ixxvil> is there anything i need to change in /default?
[15:01] <BigRedS> come on now, *something* happened :)
[15:01] <OliveiraBorges> how to i make a streaming server live with webcam using linux server like that (my pc-windows-   ->  linux server  -> customers)
[15:01] <BigRedS> nah, default's working :)
[15:02] <ixxvil> what about the haccess file?
[15:02] <ixxvil> that looks right?
[15:02] <ixxvil> i suspect it's that htaccess file
[15:02] <ixxvil> maybe it needs to go into the web root dir? var/www?
[15:02] <BigRedS> where is it now?
[15:02] <ixxvil> in the dir i want to protect
[15:03] <BigRedS> yeah, .htaccess looked right I think. What was the url to that again?
[15:03] <BigRedS> no, that's fine
[15:03] <ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39123
[15:03] <BigRedS> it affects the directory it's in and any subdirs, so that's the right place for it
[15:03] <ixxvil> ye but the ssl part might have to go into var/www?
[15:04] <ixxvil> most of google thats what they're doing, adding the ssl part as a directive
[15:04] <BigRedS> oh yeah, I've never seen that SSL directive before
[15:04] <BigRedS> I remember now
[15:04] <BigRedS> what happens if you take that out, but visit the site via SSL?
[15:04] <ixxvil> let me try
[15:05] <ixxvil> nothing
[15:05] <BigRedS> I bet what's happening isn't "nothing"
[15:06] <ixxvil> well there isnt a auth page
[15:06] <ixxvil> after removing the ssl part
[15:06] <BigRedS> ah, so quite a lot happens. It lets you view the contents of the directory
[15:06] <BigRedS> hm, and this is with https:// at teh beginning of the url?
[15:06] <ixxvil> of course
[15:06] <BigRedS> cool. Just checking :)
[15:07] <BigRedS> yeah, I'm stumped
[15:07] <ixxvil> Apache/2.2.22 (Ubuntu) Server at yadayada.com Port 443
[15:07] <ixxvil> thats from the bototm of that dir
[15:07] <ixxvil> so ssl is working
[15:07] <BigRedS> yeah
[15:08] <ixxvil> oh after removing the ssl
[15:08] <ixxvil> i might need to restart apache i guess?
[15:08] <BigRedS> not in the .htaccess file
[15:08] <BigRedS> well, sometimes you do, but you shouldn't need to
[15:09] <ixxvil> yeah no difference
[15:20]  * popey pokes xnox 
[15:20]  * xnox pokes popey
[15:20] <popey> getting core installer popup when I plug my iphone in! :D
[15:20] <popey> optimistic
[15:20] <xnox> popey: awesome. and the upgrade that fixes that got superseeded.
[15:21] <popey> \o/
[15:21]  * xnox should re-upload a fix.
[15:21]  * popey unpokes
[15:22] <xnox> popey: in the mean time replace /etc/init/usb-creator-gtk.conf with http://paste.ubuntu.com/1644310/
[15:23] <xnox> popey: and let me know if that fixes it for you.
[15:23]  * xnox will do an upload of that shortly
[15:23]  * xnox unpokes
[15:23] <popey> thanks!
[15:33]  * mungbean_ finds his mod has improved since putting slothstranaut on his picture frame on his desk
[15:36] <ixxvil> BigRedS: apache folks say to use a directory block
[15:36] <ixxvil> its preffered
[15:36] <ixxvil> etc etc
[15:44] <BigRedS> ixxvil: for what?
[15:44] <BigRedS> auth?
[15:56] <ixxvil> BigRedS: yeah
[15:57] <BigRedS> Ah. It shouldn't make any difference functionally, but I guess it's worth a pop. That'll at least get around any AllowOverride funny business
[15:57] <ixxvil> yeha buti dunno how
[15:57] <ixxvil> and last time i messed with it it broke my vhost file
[15:58] <ixxvil> 19:28 < thumbs> ixxvil: you don't have HTTP auth directives in your :443 vhost.
[15:58] <ixxvil> you need to place the auth directives in the appropriate <Directory> block in your vhost.
[15:58] <ixxvil> any idea how?
[15:58] <ixxvil>  http://wiki.apache.org/httpd/PasswordBasicAuth basicall this
[15:58] <BigRedS> copy what's in the vhost file into a <directory> block
[15:59] <BigRedS> you can give apache directives that only apply to files and directories in a directory
[15:59] <BigRedS> you've already got a set there for /var/www
[15:59] <BigRedS> you could make another <Directory /var/www/whatever> block, and put the content of your htaccess into it
[15:59] <ixxvil> but they say i dont need htaccess
[15:59] <ixxvil> if i have a directory block
[15:59] <BigRedS> well, not if you do it this way
[15:59] <ixxvil> and it seems htaccess slows performance
[16:00] <ixxvil> ok
[16:00] <BigRedS> hah, yeah arguably it does
[16:00] <BigRedS> functionally, though, the two should be identical
[16:00] <BigRedS> a .htaccess file is basically a <directory> block for the dir its in
[16:00] <BigRedS> but it needs to be allowed to override stuff
[16:01] <BigRedS> that's what the AllowOverride directive does - sets what .htaccess files are allowed to change
[16:01] <ixxvil> so under directory var wwwi make another one?
[16:01] <BigRedS> yeah
[16:03]  * popey wonders if AlanBell's printer has arrived
[16:06] <ixxvil> andhttp://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39125
[16:06] <ixxvil> so like that
[16:06] <ixxvil> http://www.nomorepasting.com/getpaste.php?pasteid=39125
[16:07] <ixxvil> ?
[16:08] <ixxvil> is that right?
[16:12] <ali1234> why does the topic say: ☃ ❄ ❅ ☃ ❆ ❇ ♿
[16:14] <BigRedS> ixxvil: looks right
[16:14] <ali1234> it looks like two snowmen pelting a disabled person with snowballs
[16:15] <BigRedS> ixxvil: though weren't you going to put teh content of the .htaccess in that directory block?
[16:15] <ixxvil> like what
[16:15] <BigRedS> Oh. My terminal can now do unicode
[16:15] <ixxvil> based in the link
[16:15] <BigRedS> authtype basic; authname whatever; authuserfile /etc/apache2/passwd etc.
[16:16] <ixxvil> it says the htaccess file goes in the dir i want to protect
[16:16] <BigRedS> okay, cool
[16:16] <BigRedS> yeah, that's fine, too :)
[16:16] <ixxvil> oh
[16:16] <ixxvil> it says i have to make a directory block for the htaccess too?
[16:16] <BigRedS> huh?
[16:16] <BigRedS> what's 'it' here?
[16:17] <ixxvil> ohn it's two recipes
[16:17] <ixxvil> one using the htacccess stuff as a directory block
[16:17] <ixxvil> or
[16:18] <ixxvil> using the htaccess file in the dir i want protected + a separate directory block in the vhost
[16:18] <BigRedS> yeah. which one are you doing?
[16:18] <ixxvil> errored
[16:18] <ixxvil> pache2: Syntax error on line 237 of /etc/apache2/apache2.conf: Syntax error on line 16 of /etc/apache2/sites-enabled/000-default-ssl: Expected </VirtualHost> but saw </Directory>
[16:19] <ixxvil> o fixed
[16:19] <ixxvil> i had an extra </Directory>
[16:22] <ixxvil> im getting the auth page!
[16:22] <ixxvil> but its not accepting the password
[16:23] <BigRedS> oh, cool
[16:24] <BigRedS> Is it saying the right thing? Your browser will say something like "The page at whatever says: XXXX" where XXXX is what comes after AuthName
[16:24] <BigRedS> in your config
[16:24] <ixxvil> Please contact the server administrator, webmaster@localhost and inform them of the time the error occurred, and anything you might have done that may have caused the error.
[16:25] <ixxvil> The server encountered an internal error or misconfiguration and was unable to complete your request.
[16:26] <ixxvil> [Wed Feb 13 08:22:25 2013] [error] [client 108.44.29.77] (2)No such file or directory: Could not open password file: /etc/ap$
[16:26] <ixxvil> thats /etc/apache/passwords?
[16:26] <ixxvil> should it be .htpasswd?
[16:30] <ixxvil> IT WORKS
[16:30] <ixxvil> i mispelt etc/apache2/password
[16:30] <ixxvil> whene it was passwords
[16:31] <ixxvil> <- GENIUSSSSS
[16:33] <BigRedS> aha, cool
[16:33] <BigRedS> I've no idea why that worked
[16:33] <BigRedS> but it did, and sometimes apache is like that
[16:33] <ixxvil> they say it has to go in the directory block for 443 to pick up or some shit
[16:37] <ixxvil> alright thanks BigRedS
[16:37] <ixxvil> :D
[16:37] <ixxvil> later
[16:38] <BigRedS> haha, I don't think I did anything, but I'll take the credit :)
[16:38] <Azelphur> wtf
[16:38] <Azelphur> talktalk are putting me on hold for 45 minutes
[16:39] <Azelphur> "May I please put you on hold for 45 minutes while I check the line"
[16:39] <Azelphur> I'm not even joking right now
[16:40] <penguin42> impressive
[16:41] <Azelphur> yea, I'm pretty pissed at them, they made me wait 3 months for an engineer to come out and connect me, only to not send the engineer
[16:41] <Azelphur> then they registered it as a fault on the line and sent an engineer to repair it
[16:41] <Azelphur> and the engineer says there's nothing for me to repair because they didn't send an engineer out to fit it, and that it's a common problem with talktalk (And only talktalk) that they do to avoid paying for a line to be fitted.
[16:42] <shauno> that 45 minutes is usually because callcenters are run by accountants
[16:42] <Azelphur> fun
[16:43] <shauno> they can't spend 45 minutes on market as not ready to take a call, because some beancounter will be measuring it.  so if they need to spend 45 minutes on an issue, it's easier to keep you on the phone.  else they take a beancounter hit, or the phone rings again
[16:43] <shauno> it's not because they actually need you on the phone :/
[16:43] <shauno> er, marked, not market.  love when typos make real words.
[16:44] <BigRedS> ah, that makes more sense with that correction :)
[16:45] <Myrtti> they wanted to move us to residential plan and to pay 15pounds a month instead of 7. "but you get 6 months for free" doh
[16:45] <shauno> I swear I don't speak english anymore.  it started out as "marked not ready" in my head, and gained some spare words in the translation
[16:47] <Azelphur> fun, think I might have made some progress after getting put through to a manager
[16:48] <Azelphur> basically they were supposed to send someone out to fit my line, didn't, and then they sent an engineer out to repair it to try and avoid costs, engineer specifically told me it's a common thing and only happens with talktalk
[16:49] <MartijnVdS> Weird
[16:49] <shauno> I wonder if repairs get billed to someone else (eg BT)
[16:50] <Azelphur> that's what the openreach guy said
[16:50] <Azelphur> repairs are BT, new lines are TalkTalk
[16:50] <Azelphur> so they try and send them out on repairs when people have no lines to get them to fit lines
[16:50] <shauno> right.  the connection is their business, but if BT own the lines, maintaining them is theirs.  so they're playing a game to have someone else pick up the tab.  awkward
[16:51] <Azelphur> yep, not happy.
[16:51] <penguin42> the intention of splitting Openreach off from BT was to stop BT having the advantage in being able to get lines done/fixed quickly; the downside is it's now just as bad for everyone
[16:51] <shauno> it's quite clever, but what was the point of waiting months for the install if they had no intention of showing?
[16:51] <shauno> surely they could schedule imaginary appointments any time they liked
[16:52] <Azelphur> shauno: indeed, annoying as fuck xD
[16:53] <shauno> I'm surprised to say I'm quite happy with UPC (nee NTL).  ordered a new install, got a text message by the end of the day telling me they'd be between 10-11am the next day.  they showed up when they send they would, and I have 100meg by lunch
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> ♥ Reggefiber ;)
[16:53] <MartijnVdS> precioussss 100/100
[16:54] <shauno> 100/10, but it does me fine
[16:54] <MartijnVdS> I need to start producing videos now I have the bandwidth to upload them :)
[16:56] <shauno> self-install is fantastic though.  they've finally admitted that it's not that difficult, and DPD have better service than a truck roll
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> Officially, I had to wait for someone to come around and install it
[16:56] <MartijnVdS> but I work for my ISP, and my colleagues told me it's easy to do.. so I did it myself :)
[16:58] <penguin42> does anyone know on T-mobile PAYG hth you figure out the day on which your internet topup ends?
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: BA or AL to 150?
[16:58] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: http://support.t-mobile.co.uk/help-and-support/index?page=html&cat=CONTACTUS
[16:59] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: It just tells me I've got it, not the last day of it
[16:59] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: so call them, ask for a human
[16:59] <penguin42> MartijnVdS: I doubt I'll get any further to be honest
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: ask their twitter team, they'll be able to tell you where to look :)
[17:00] <MartijnVdS> angry tweets = public = fix nao
[17:00] <penguin42> haha possibly
[17:01] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: The best way to get a real problem fixed (besides contacting one of the "consumer watchdog" TV programs) is tweeting about it, and mentioning their "Web care" account
[17:02]  * penguin42 really should sign up for a twitter account I guess
[17:16] <jacobw> hi, can i use an external node classifer only for a particular environment?
[17:16] <jacobw> wrong channel
[17:19] <Azelphur> giving TalkTalk a tongue lashing on their forums, http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=955739#post955739 xD
[17:32] <penguin42> Azelphur: Ask for references for Openreach job numbers/booking numbers (not sure what their exact terms are)
[17:32] <penguin42> Azelphur: The problem with all this stuff is that since both sides are equally hopeless it's almost impossible to figure out who is screwing it up
[17:32] <Azelphur> indeed \o/
[17:33] <Azelphur> at least I can publicly humiliate them.
[17:33] <penguin42> Azelphur: There are companies like Andrews & Arnold who make it their business to sort out Openreach screwups - but they do cost a bit
[17:34] <Azelphur> indeed
[17:34] <Azelphur> the openreach engineer also said I might not even be able to get a connection because the pole is full
[17:36] <penguin42> Azelphur: they normally have ways, but it'll take a bit of bitching
[17:36] <Azelphur> yea
[17:36] <Azelphur> I shall continue to bitch at increasing levels until they do something about it
[17:36] <penguin42> Azelphur: I'd get the line provisioned via BT rather than talktalk
[17:37] <Azelphur> I'm in contract with talktalk unfortunately
[17:37] <penguin42> but they've failed to fulfil?
[17:37]  * Azelphur shrugs
[17:38] <penguin42> Azelphur: I'd also ask Ofcom about it
[17:38] <Azelphur> if it goes on much longer I may cancel and switch ISP
[17:38] <Azelphur> will see what they get back to me with in 48 hours about getting me connected
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: you seem to have _a_ connection to the interwebs
[17:47] <Azelphur> MartijnVdS: yea, my brother lives next door, chucked 30m of outdoor grade ethernet out the window.
[17:47] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: 😎
[17:47] <Azelphur> xD
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: nah xD =~ 😝
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> or 😣
[17:48] <Azelphur> hehe, I need to get an addon for that
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: get the "symbola" font from here: http://users.teilar.gr/~g1951d/
[17:48] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: or install the "Droid" font family
[17:49] <Azelphur> I have the font :p
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> gucharmap -> "Emoticons" blcok
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> block*
[17:49] <Azelphur> I assume you have something that does xD -> 😝
[17:49] <MartijnVdS> I do not.
[17:49] <Azelphur> or are you just doing lots of clicking?
[17:49] <Azelphur> oh
[17:50] <MartijnVdS> I look at the gucharmap thing, then copy/paste single characters
[17:50] <Azelphur> :P
[18:02] <MartijnVdS> Azelphur: popey has the scripts
[18:03] <Azelphur> probably not for pidgin though, pidgin needs a python API :(
[18:07] <bigcalm> Boo!
[18:49] <ali1234> Azelphur: you cannot publicly humiliate talktalk any worse than they already have been. they are total rubbish
[18:50] <Azelphur> xD
[18:54] <penguin42> not unless they started delivering you horse burgers
[18:58] <Azelphur> lol
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> penguin42: hors d'oeuvres?
[19:04] <shauno> I found an article today, sweden asking questions about 9,000 missing horses .. per year.  made me chuckle
[19:04] <penguin42> haha
[19:05] <shauno> "Sweden's 9,000 missing horses baffle experts"  http://www.thelocal.se/46170/20130213/
[19:06] <ali1234> looooool really?
[19:06] <shauno> just seemed like a very awkward moment to be the guy in the corner going "erm, has anyone seen my horse?"
[19:06] <shauno> (although they are hypothetical horses, it's just comparing the expected life span / death rate vs the number of licenses issued to bury them)
[19:07] <ali1234> does it really take an expert here to put 2 and 2 together?
[19:08] <ali1234> DAE search google news for "over 9000" periodically?
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> .. noooo?
[19:09] <shauno> the whole thing's pretty barmy though.  the issue isn't really that they're horses.  it's that if they'd actually been reared for human consumption (free of various medications that don't sit well with humans), they'd be worth more than the meat they're filling
[19:11] <ali1234> yeah it does seem a bit suspicious that an animal which is bred for working is going cheaper than an animal bred specicially to efficiently produce meat
[19:12] <shauno> it's only cheaper than beef if it's "mystery meat".  if it's actually fit for consumption, it wouldn't be economical to pad beef with it
[19:12] <ali1234> i bought some really cheap steaks in lidl once and i'm sure they were not beef. even at the time they seemed a bit weird.
[19:12] <ali1234> still ate them though.
[19:12] <MartijnVdS> everything I've ever eaten from lidl was "a bit weird"
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> it never tastes as it should
[19:13] <shauno> this is a valid point
[19:13] <ali1234> some of their stuff is great
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: their wine, after a few bottles?
[19:13] <ali1234> the steaks were ok, they just didn't taste like beef.
[19:13] <ali1234> they didn't kill me or anything :)
[19:13] <MartijnVdS> but they made you into the man you are today!
[19:14] <ali1234> partially
[19:14] <shauno> I guess it does mean they've flat-out proven that all the tracability steps they put in after the whole mad cow mess, only work on paper
[19:15] <ali1234> best lidl food item is their frozen pizzas which are like the high end super market luxury ones, but at the "value range" price
[19:15] <shauno> they can't claim they can prove where the cow came from, if they can't prove it's a cow
[19:15] <ali1234> yeah, totally
[19:16] <ali1234> it's extra ironic that french factories are involved after they made all that stink over british meat
[19:19] <shauno> we still get side effects of that here.  most the meat in my fridge contains at least 3 different claims that it's entirely sourced, handled and tracable within ireland
[19:19] <shauno> I'm sure it won't be long until they add "we promise it's beef" logos to the mess
[19:20] <AlanBell> popey: nope, not arrived yet
[19:22] <AlanBell> ali1234: um, interesting point about the topic
[19:26] <bigcalm> Cor
[19:26] <bigcalm> A weekend no less!
[19:26] <AlanBell> well yeah, lets try that
[19:27]  * bigcalm adds it to his calendar
[19:38] <MartijnVdS> ali1234: at work we came up with "HAL 9001: It's Over 9000!"
[19:39] <AlanBell> it goes to 9001 \o/ that is one better than 9000
[19:39] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: except it takes 3 episodes to get there
[20:30] <Myrtti> popey: http://offbeathome.com/2013/02/bringing-home-baby-reptile-edition-a-guide-to-owning-your-first-reptile
[20:51] <directhex> dead monitor /o\
[20:55] <popey> oh golly
[20:55] <popey> czajkowski: decided to have butter + lemon + sugar
[20:55] <popey> nom
[20:56] <popey> directhex: didnt you just buy one?
[20:56] <directhex> popey, for the wife
[20:56] <popey> ah
[20:57] <czajkowski> popey: tis good stuff :)
[21:00] <popey> was!
[21:00] <czajkowski> now if we could just get you liking the bacon and syrup it'd be all good
[21:09] <Daviey> bacon and syrup ?!
[21:09] <Daviey> get a grip.
[21:09] <czajkowski> maple syrup
[21:10] <Daviey> czajkowski: take a long hard look at what you just said.
[21:30] <bigcalm> Maple syrup is wonderful. Not sure about having it with bacon though
[21:38] <popey> bacon and syrup is just flat out wrong
[21:39] <bigcalm> I'm glad that there is some sanity in here
[21:39] <Azelphur> I've tried fish fingers and custard
[21:39] <Azelphur> xD
[21:39] <bigcalm> Azelphur: and?
[21:39] <Azelphur> it was good.
[21:39] <shauno> bacon and maple syrup actually works.  sausages, less so.
[21:39] <Azelphur> 10/10 would eat again.
[21:39] <Azelphur> xD
[21:40] <bigcalm> Hehe
[21:43] <czajkowski> custard and fig rolls in a microwave for 1 min = yummyness
[21:51] <ali1234> Azelphur: you mean breaded fish fillets in white sauce with vanilla essence
[21:51] <Azelphur> aka fish fingers and custard, yea
[21:52] <ali1234> only the vanilla is really "wrong" but vanilla goes with everything
[22:06] <Elysium> Any mods in here?
[22:07] <popey> Elysium: wassup?
[22:07] <madfish> bah...work have enabled a draconian firewall policy. No direct ssh or tunneling. Now using gateone on my vps but remarkably useable
[22:08] <popey> madfish: ssh on port 443?
[22:08] <Elysium> I need to reset my nickserv password mate, ive installed ubuntu alongside windows, my password works fine on Windows mIRC, come on XChat on Linux and apparently it's invalid.
[22:09] <popey> ah, that sounds like a job for #freenode
[22:09] <madfish> popey: tried and getting errors. I've tried corkscrew and even ip over dns as a last resort. No dice. I only need to admin a couple of VPS's
[22:10] <Elysium> whos #freenode?
[22:10] <Elysium> lol
[22:10] <popey> its a channel
[22:10] <popey>  /join #freenode
[22:11] <popey> madfish: is it an NTLM windows authenticating proxy?
[22:11] <Elysium>  /join #freenode
[22:11] <Azelphur> Elysium: without the space at the beginning ;)
[22:11] <popey> without the space in front
[22:11] <Elysium> get there in the end ;)
[22:11] <Azelphur> took a screenshot of my desktop at the moment for showing off purposes, https://dl.dropbox.com/u/3832397/screenshots/2013/Jan/2013-02-13-220306_10240x1440_scrot.png
[22:11] <Azelphur> those of you without widescreen monitors, I pity you. :p
[22:12] <shauno> good lord.  someone really needs to teach you alt+tab.  I see what you're trying to do, and it's been solved years ago
[22:13] <dwatkins> I used to have terminals arranged like that, then I discovered Screen ;)
[22:13] <Azelphur> haha
[22:14] <Azelphur> don't hate my non-tabbing ways.
[22:15] <directhex> i can't taste a goddamn thing
[22:17] <dwatkins> eat an onion
[22:17] <madfish> popey: I think so. I've tracked down the proxy IP and port but get an ISA proxy error in putty for windows
[22:17] <popey> madfish: there's a python based local proxy you can run which can do ntlm
[22:17] <popey> http://ntlmaps.sourceforge.net/
[22:20] <madfish> popey: ooh. Looks promising. Using gateone (not affiliated to it!) has been rather good as an emergency. html5/websockets goodness :) Might do a nodejs implementation