rick_h_party party00:46
jjesseand boom goes twitter with the state of union02:16
greg-goh right... do I turn the hotel tv back on or not...02:17
greg-gdecision: not worth the effort02:18
snap-lGood morning13:03
snap-lY'know, for the amount of people lamenting Opera's engine change, you'd think I'd have more Opera users in my logs.13:56
brouschPEople use Opera?14:01
snap-lYou'd think they did from the amount of kvetching14:03
brouschI think jrwren is trolling you14:05
snap-lWouldn't be the first time.14:08
snap-lBut I doubt it. I think jrwren is sincere14:09
jcastrosnap-l: btw http://askubuntu.com/questions/3503/best-way-to-cache-apt-downloads-on-a-lan14:36
jrwreni'm only sincere in that I value diversity.14:55
jrwreni strongly dislike the "1 down, 2 to go" sentiment.14:55
jrwrenI'd be very disappointed if there was only webkit.14:55
rick_h_jrwren: but what do you prefer to webkit? That's my thing. If a new contender came up I'd be happy, but gecko/etc are just not up to snuff14:56
rick_h_might as well compete with each other on top of the same kernel imo14:56
snap-lI'm not sure Opera was up to snuff, honestly.14:56
rick_h_just like RH/Ubuntu/Debian on the same linux kernel14:56
snap-ler, Presto14:56
snap-ljcastro: Thanks! Will check it out.14:56
snap-ljcastro: Does it also cache private repos, or will I have to add those in by hand?14:57
jrwreni disagree with all of that.14:57
jrwrengecko, opera and trident are all "up to snuff"14:57
rick_h_ugh, hate this title though http://ejohn.org/blog/webkit-is-the-jquery-of-browser-engines/14:59
snap-lThat's what I don't understand: all of the webkit hate.14:59
jrwreni dont' hate it at all.15:00
jrwrenits great.15:00
jrwreni strongly dislike the sentiment that there should be only webkit.15:00
snap-lYeah, I don't buy that either15:02
snap-lBecause it won't just be webkit, it'll be IE and webkit and gecko and something else15:02
brouschIt's not like MS will ever switch15:04
snap-lI'm not so certain, but if they do, they'll definitely extend it15:05
jrwreni would have agreed with MS never, until I've seen how MS embraced nodejs.15:13
jrwrenas of yet, ms hasn't extended nodejs in noncompatible ways.15:13
jrwreni'm still waiting15:13
brouschWhat are they using node on?15:14
rick_h_yea, nodejs and jquery have been fairly cleanly integrated15:15
rick_h_brousch: they support it on azure15:15
rick_h_it was one of the first non-.net platforms on there15:16
brouschThat's all?15:16
rick_h_they sponsored a ton of work to move to libuv to get it to work on MS platforms15:16
rick_h_basically node didn't work on MS at all, then they sponsored a ton of good work and now works pretty well from what I hear15:16
brouschThat is just them realizing no one wants to run ASP and no one wants to port cool things to Windows15:17
jrwrenone of the core node devs works for msft IIRC15:17
jrwrenbrousch: we are trying to have a serious discussion. hyperbole like no one wants to run asp -- assuming you mean asp.net -- is not true.15:18
jrwrenin fact, its not even hyperbole, its flat out false.15:18
brouschFair enough15:19
jrwrenstrategically i can't figure out what msft is doing with it other than tooling. but they don't make $$$ on tooling.15:20
jrwrenmsft is a sinking ship.15:20
brouschThey make money because node can be run on Azure. It's a way to bring in "the cool kids" to their cloud platform15:20
brouschGiven a choice, most of the developers I've encountered would not use MS. They only do so because they are paid to use it15:21
jcastrosnap-l: yeah you need to whitelist some domains on the server piece, it's in the "3rd party" section of my post.15:22
jcastrosnap-l: iirc we added some common ones commented out.15:22
jcastroI don't get the webkit or the opera hate either15:22
jrwrenmy impression from talking to 'azure people' is that there are not a lot of paying customers.15:23
jrwrena couple of big profile ones like nbc for olympics, but its not very wide spread.15:23
jcastroit's not in GA yet that's why15:24
jrwrenmost azure servies are GA w/ production support15:24
jrwrenoh, you mean node specifically?15:24
brouschjrwren: It's for the same reason. given a choice, most developers I know would not use Azure15:24
jrwrenbrousch: I would have agreed and been one until I first deployed to it. its pretty much just like heroku now. git push to deploy the node app.15:25
jrwrenthe only thing I have against it is cost - its pretty expensive.15:25
brouschAzure is windows, right?15:26
jcastrojrwren: the compute thing isn't GA, the IAAS compete-with-amazon part.15:26
jrwreni see.15:27
jcastrosoon though15:27
jcastrothe tools are all node, it's pretty nice15:27
jrwrenbrousch: its called "Windows Azure" so yes :)15:28
brouschSo to ensure your stuff will run properly on it, you should be developing on Windows15:28
jcastronope, Linux is 100% supported15:28
brouschSo you can run a Linux server on Azure?15:29
jrwrenbrousch: i really don't understand. you write nodejs.15:29
jrwrenor yes, for IAAS stuff you can run Linux on Azure.15:29
jcastrobrousch: yep, full support from MS and Canonical too: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/canonical-partners-with-microsoft-to-support-ubuntu-on-azure/15:29
jcastrodun dun dun!15:29
jrwrenthe part where it will really suck is if you use SQL... its gonna be MSSQL and not Postgresql :(15:29
jjessebrousch, if i remember correctly the Hypervisor is MS Hypervisor15:30
jrwrenwell, unless you run and install postgresql on an IAAS15:30
jrwrenbut I was refering to paas15:30
jrwrenyes, its HyperV.15:30
jjesseso whatever is supported on Hyper-V should run on Azure15:30
jrwrenremember when MS sent the huge patch to linux kernel?15:30
jcastroI don't care about paas, there's plenty of choice in paas, what's needed is more iaas competition, IMO of course15:30
jcastro_someone_ needs to compete with amazon15:31
brouschDoesn't rackspace?15:31
jcastrotheir new cloud is still beta15:33
jcastroHPs is still beta15:33
jcastroGoogle's is still beta15:33
jcastroAzure's is still beta15:33
jrwrenjcastro: seriously?15:34
jrwreni feel exactly the oposite.15:34
jcastromeanwhile Amazon is printing money.15:34
brouschGoogle is doing IAAS?15:34
rick_h_google compute15:34
jrwrenplenty of choice in Iaas, and very little in paas :)15:34
brouschOh right15:34
jcastrojrwren: most of the "iaas" I see is just some resold VPS garbage with "Cloud" stuck on the front.15:34
rick_h_how so in paas? There seems to be a ton of them15:34
jcastroI mean real scalable IAAS, like, Netflix scale15:34
jjessei don't see anything about Azure being a beta product15:34
jcastroif you want IAAS and you need to scale AWS is your only real choice15:35
jrwrenjcastro: there are half a dozen vendors selling openstack clouds.15:35
jcastrobrousch: https://cloud.google.com/products/compute-engine15:35
jcastrojrwren: and they will be awesome, just not right now.15:35
jrwrenso not VPS garbage with cloud on the front, but openstack with cloud on the front.15:35
jrwrenAWS's IAAS is NOT waht makes netflix be netflix scale.15:35
jrwrennetflix programers design decision is what makes netflix be that scale.15:36
jcastrodon't get me wrong, openstack clouds are the future, but there's no killer customer at scale on openstack clouds yet15:36
rick_h_yea, really hoping dreamhost/rackspace/hp can get up and running 100% and complete against AWS. Google would be nice but they just seem to care about BIG deploys right now15:36
jrwrena vast majority of systems running on aws iaas use it just like hosted servers and when there is an infra outage, htey go down.15:36
jcastrojrwren: netflix is very much scalable in large part to aws, I was at the session where they talked about it15:36
jcastroI mean, their architecture is also very smart15:37
jrwrenjcastro: i strongly disagree. I too was at the session where they talked about it, and had some beer with Carl Quinn taht weekend.15:37
rick_h_jrwren: just because a tool has options doesn't make people use it.15:37
jrwrenrick_h_: exactly.15:37
jcastrojrwren: we should drink beer and argue again like old times15:37
jrwrenjcastro: indeed we should. and you are closer than ever!15:38
rick_h_and EBS has gotten a few different updates to make cross region deploys easier as part of those downtimes15:38
jrwrenjcastro: want to come to Learn something @ fanzoo Feb 27th?15:38
jcastrowhat is fanzoo?15:38
jrwrenIIRC netflix doesn't use ebs at all.15:38
jcastrono one uses EBS, not even amazon. :)15:38
jrwrenjcastro: a tiny consulting company in AA15:38
rick_h_jrwren: right, because they know better but it's a big reason other people go down15:39
jrwrenrick_h_: yes, I see your point. that is what I was saying too.15:39
jcastroanyway, tldr, linux on azure works just fine15:39
jrwrenjcastro: 4th wednesdays they host a code jam style get together were you really just hang out drink beer, work on software or wahtever and talk about it with other people15:39
jcastrojrwren: where do they meet?15:40
rick_h_jrwren: CHC!15:40
jrwrenjcastro: at fanzoo technologies in AA - its at Ann and Ashley right downtown15:40
jcastrooh rock and roll15:40
jcastroI can probably do that, I have a car now15:40
jrwrenYAY for cars!15:40
jrwrentldr: linux on azure works just fine. building your own cloud with a 12.10 iso and the maas boot option - not so much :p15:41
jcastrohey man, sign up for a jumpstart and pay me and I'll be more than happy, lol15:41
jcastro<--- can't set it up either.15:42
jrwrenwe've had a couple guys trying it and both failed independantly.15:42
jrwrenit works if you do things EXACTLY right, but as soon as ANYTHING is different - fail.15:42
jrwrenlike we have multi nics so spearate mgmt network and cloud network and NOPE15:42
jrwrenall fail15:42
jcastrosend me your problems, I can have people look at them15:43
jcastrovery quickly too15:43
jrwrenthat is what I keep telling the guys here - i'm tell 'em, talk to jcastro, he is local - but they never do.15:44
jcastroanything openstack or maas related I can get looked at15:44
jcastroor hell, file a bug15:44
jrwrenI've not had to do it myself, so I've not directly experienced the pain or success, but I'll let them know.15:45
UnFixednot sure who it was that mentioned the MUG meeting last night, but thanks.15:47
snap-lBut suffering in silence is webscale.15:47
UnFixedi saw it beofre leaving work15:47
UnFixeddecided to head over, enjoyed it15:48
snap-lUnFixed: I think that was me. :)15:48
snap-lWelcome. :)15:48
snap-lHope you can make it back to the upcoming meetings15:48
snap-lshould be some good ones coming up15:48
UnFixedfarmington is a little out of my way, but i do plan to try to make it to some15:48
snap-l(note: I'm on the board, so take that with the appropriate disclaimers)15:48
UnFixedany idea on what the topics for the following meetings are?15:49
UnFixedsomeone skimmed through them at the meeting, but i can't recall them15:50
rick_h_http://blog.ziade.org/2013/02/13/fun-with-angularjs-amp-cornice/ for some pyramid/cornice/app love15:51
snap-lUnFixed: We have a calendar of upcoming events under mug.org/meetings15:54
UnFixedfound it just a moment ago15:55
UnFixedi didnt see the link at the bottom of the page15:55
snap-lYeah, it doesn't jump out unfortunately15:55
jrwrenjcastro: sellers just said we should take you to lunch sometime to talk openstack and maas16:09
jcastroawww yeah16:10
jrwrenim gonna see if he wants to today. you up for lunch today?16:13
snap-lMust be nice. :)16:14
jrwrenwhich part?16:18
snap-lThe going to lunch part. :)16:19
jrwrenah, nope, people are all busy here.  another time and SOON16:19
jrwrenwhoa, cool https://launchpad.net/~zfs-native/+archive/stable16:34
rick_h_upvotes appreciated: http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/18h0vg/a_pebble_users_first_impressions_and_feedback/22:22
greg-gI just got this email from Carrie: "Rowan just peed on the back deck, came inside to get a rag, and is now wiping it up."22:32
greg-ghe's 14 months, effing crazy22:33

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