[00:11] <snap-l> http://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/18ecca/was_asked_to_slow_down_the_servers_today/
[00:46] <rick_h_> party party
[02:16] <jjesse> and boom goes twitter with the state of union
[02:17] <greg-g> oh right... do I turn the hotel tv back on or not...
[02:18] <greg-g> decision: not worth the effort
[13:03] <snap-l> Good morning
[13:04] <brousch> yes
[13:11] <rick_h_> wheeee
[13:56] <snap-l> Y'know, for the amount of people lamenting Opera's engine change, you'd think I'd have more Opera users in my logs.
[14:01] <brousch> PEople use Opera?
[14:03] <snap-l> You'd think they did from the amount of kvetching
[14:05] <brousch> I think jrwren is trolling you
[14:08] <snap-l> Wouldn't be the first time.
[14:09] <snap-l> But I doubt it. I think jrwren is sincere
[14:36] <jcastro> snap-l: btw http://askubuntu.com/questions/3503/best-way-to-cache-apt-downloads-on-a-lan
[14:55] <jrwren> i'm only sincere in that I value diversity.
[14:55] <jrwren> i strongly dislike the "1 down, 2 to go" sentiment.
[14:55] <jrwren> I'd be very disappointed if there was only webkit.
[14:56] <rick_h_> jrwren: but what do you prefer to webkit? That's my thing. If a new contender came up I'd be happy, but gecko/etc are just not up to snuff
[14:56] <rick_h_> might as well compete with each other on top of the same kernel imo
[14:56] <snap-l> I'm not sure Opera was up to snuff, honestly.
[14:56] <rick_h_> just like RH/Ubuntu/Debian on the same linux kernel
[14:56] <snap-l> er, Presto
[14:56] <snap-l> jcastro: Thanks! Will check it out.
[14:57] <snap-l> jcastro: Does it also cache private repos, or will I have to add those in by hand?
[14:57] <jrwren> i disagree with all of that.
[14:57] <jrwren> gecko, opera and trident are all "up to snuff"
[14:59] <rick_h_> ugh, hate this title though http://ejohn.org/blog/webkit-is-the-jquery-of-browser-engines/
[14:59] <brousch> hah
[14:59] <snap-l> That's what I don't understand: all of the webkit hate.
[15:00] <jrwren> i dont' hate it at all.
[15:00] <jrwren> its great.
[15:00] <jrwren> i strongly dislike the sentiment that there should be only webkit.
[15:02] <snap-l> Yeah, I don't buy that either
[15:02] <snap-l> Because it won't just be webkit, it'll be IE and webkit and gecko and something else
[15:04] <brousch> It's not like MS will ever switch
[15:05] <snap-l> I'm not so certain, but if they do, they'll definitely extend it
[15:13] <jrwren> i would have agreed with MS never, until I've seen how MS embraced nodejs.
[15:13] <jrwren> as of yet, ms hasn't extended nodejs in noncompatible ways.
[15:13] <jrwren> i'm still waiting
[15:14] <brousch> What are they using node on?
[15:15] <rick_h_> yea, nodejs and jquery have been fairly cleanly integrated
[15:15] <rick_h_> brousch: they support it on azure
[15:16] <rick_h_> it was one of the first non-.net platforms on there
[15:16] <brousch> That's all?
[15:16] <rick_h_> they sponsored a ton of work to move to libuv to get it to work on MS platforms
[15:16] <rick_h_> basically node didn't work on MS at all, then they sponsored a ton of good work and now works pretty well from what I hear
[15:17] <brousch> That is just them realizing no one wants to run ASP and no one wants to port cool things to Windows
[15:17] <jrwren> one of the core node devs works for msft IIRC
[15:18] <jrwren> brousch: we are trying to have a serious discussion. hyperbole like no one wants to run asp -- assuming you mean asp.net -- is not true.
[15:18] <jrwren> in fact, its not even hyperbole, its flat out false.
[15:19] <brousch> Fair enough
[15:20] <jrwren> strategically i can't figure out what msft is doing with it other than tooling. but they don't make $$$ on tooling.
[15:20] <jrwren> msft is a sinking ship.
[15:20] <brousch> They make money because node can be run on Azure. It's a way to bring in "the cool kids" to their cloud platform
[15:21] <brousch> Given a choice, most of the developers I've encountered would not use MS. They only do so because they are paid to use it
[15:22] <jcastro> snap-l: yeah you need to whitelist some domains on the server piece, it's in the "3rd party" section of my post.
[15:22] <jcastro> snap-l: iirc we added some common ones commented out.
[15:22] <jcastro> I don't get the webkit or the opera hate either
[15:23] <jrwren> my impression from talking to 'azure people' is that there are not a lot of paying customers.
[15:23] <jrwren> a couple of big profile ones like nbc for olympics, but its not very wide spread.
[15:24] <jcastro> it's not in GA yet that's why
[15:24] <jrwren> azure?
[15:24] <jcastro> yeah
[15:24] <jrwren> most azure servies are GA w/ production support
[15:24] <jrwren> oh, you mean node specifically?
[15:24] <brousch> jrwren: It's for the same reason. given a choice, most developers I know would not use Azure
[15:25] <jrwren> brousch: I would have agreed and been one until I first deployed to it. its pretty much just like heroku now. git push to deploy the node app.
[15:25] <jrwren> the only thing I have against it is cost - its pretty expensive.
[15:26] <brousch> Azure is windows, right?
[15:26] <jcastro> jrwren: the compute thing isn't GA, the IAAS compete-with-amazon part.
[15:27] <jrwren> i see.
[15:27] <jcastro> soon though
[15:27] <jcastro> the tools are all node, it's pretty nice
[15:28] <jrwren> brousch: its called "Windows Azure" so yes :)
[15:28] <brousch> So to ensure your stuff will run properly on it, you should be developing on Windows
[15:28] <jcastro> nope, Linux is 100% supported
[15:29] <brousch> So you can run a Linux server on Azure?
[15:29] <jrwren> brousch: i really don't understand. you write nodejs.
[15:29] <jrwren> or yes, for IAAS stuff you can run Linux on Azure.
[15:29] <jcastro> brousch: yep, full support from MS and Canonical too: http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2012/06/canonical-partners-with-microsoft-to-support-ubuntu-on-azure/
[15:29] <jcastro> dun dun dun!
[15:29] <brousch> Fascinating
[15:29] <jrwren> the part where it will really suck is if you use SQL... its gonna be MSSQL and not Postgresql :(
[15:30] <jjesse> brousch, if i remember correctly the Hypervisor is MS Hypervisor
[15:30] <jrwren> well, unless you run and install postgresql on an IAAS
[15:30] <jrwren> but I was refering to paas
[15:30] <jrwren> yes, its HyperV.
[15:30] <jjesse> so whatever is supported on Hyper-V should run on Azure
[15:30] <jrwren> remember when MS sent the huge patch to linux kernel?
[15:30] <jjesse> yup
[15:30] <jcastro> I don't care about paas, there's plenty of choice in paas, what's needed is more iaas competition, IMO of course
[15:31] <jcastro> _someone_ needs to compete with amazon
[15:31] <brousch> Doesn't rackspace?
[15:33] <jcastro> their new cloud is still beta
[15:33] <jcastro> HPs is still beta
[15:33] <jcastro> Google's is still beta
[15:33] <jcastro> Azure's is still beta
[15:34] <jrwren> jcastro: seriously?
[15:34] <jrwren> i feel exactly the oposite.
[15:34] <jcastro> meanwhile Amazon is printing money.
[15:34] <brousch> Google is doing IAAS?
[15:34] <jcastro> yep
[15:34] <rick_h_> yep
[15:34] <rick_h_> google compute
[15:34] <jrwren> plenty of choice in Iaas, and very little in paas :)
[15:34] <brousch> Oh right
[15:34] <jcastro> jrwren: most of the "iaas" I see is just some resold VPS garbage with "Cloud" stuck on the front.
[15:34] <rick_h_> how so in paas? There seems to be a ton of them
[15:34] <jcastro> I mean real scalable IAAS, like, Netflix scale
[15:34] <jjesse> i don't see anything about Azure being a beta product
[15:35] <jcastro> if you want IAAS and you need to scale AWS is your only real choice
[15:35] <jrwren> jcastro: there are half a dozen vendors selling openstack clouds.
[15:35] <jcastro> brousch: https://cloud.google.com/products/compute-engine
[15:35] <jcastro> jrwren: and they will be awesome, just not right now.
[15:35] <jrwren> so not VPS garbage with cloud on the front, but openstack with cloud on the front.
[15:35] <jrwren> AWS's IAAS is NOT waht makes netflix be netflix scale.
[15:36] <jrwren> netflix programers design decision is what makes netflix be that scale.
[15:36] <jcastro> don't get me wrong, openstack clouds are the future, but there's no killer customer at scale on openstack clouds yet
[15:36] <rick_h_> yea, really hoping dreamhost/rackspace/hp can get up and running 100% and complete against AWS. Google would be nice but they just seem to care about BIG deploys right now
[15:36] <jrwren> a vast majority of systems running on aws iaas use it just like hosted servers and when there is an infra outage, htey go down.
[15:36] <jcastro> jrwren: netflix is very much scalable in large part to aws, I was at the session where they talked about it
[15:37] <jcastro> I mean, their architecture is also very smart
[15:37] <jrwren> jcastro: i strongly disagree. I too was at the session where they talked about it, and had some beer with Carl Quinn taht weekend.
[15:37] <rick_h_> jrwren: just because a tool has options doesn't make people use it.
[15:37] <jrwren> rick_h_: exactly.
[15:37] <jcastro> jrwren: we should drink beer and argue again like old times
[15:38] <jrwren> jcastro: indeed we should. and you are closer than ever!
[15:38] <rick_h_> and EBS has gotten a few different updates to make cross region deploys easier as part of those downtimes
[15:38] <jrwren> jcastro: want to come to Learn something @ fanzoo Feb 27th?
[15:38] <jcastro> what is fanzoo?
[15:38] <jrwren> IIRC netflix doesn't use ebs at all.
[15:38] <jcastro> no one uses EBS, not even amazon. :)
[15:38] <jrwren> jcastro: a tiny consulting company in AA
[15:39] <rick_h_> jrwren: right, because they know better but it's a big reason other people go down
[15:39] <jrwren> rick_h_: yes, I see your point. that is what I was saying too.
[15:39] <jcastro> anyway, tldr, linux on azure works just fine
[15:39] <jrwren> jcastro: 4th wednesdays they host a code jam style get together were you really just hang out drink beer, work on software or wahtever and talk about it with other people
[15:40] <jcastro> jrwren: where do they meet?
[15:40] <rick_h_> jrwren: CHC!
[15:40] <jrwren> jcastro: at fanzoo technologies in AA - its at Ann and Ashley right downtown
[15:40] <jcastro> oh rock and roll
[15:40] <jcastro> I can probably do that, I have a car now
[15:40] <jrwren> YAY for cars!
[15:41] <jrwren> tldr: linux on azure works just fine. building your own cloud with a 12.10 iso and the maas boot option - not so much :p
[15:41] <jcastro> hey man, sign up for a jumpstart and pay me and I'll be more than happy, lol
[15:42] <jcastro> <--- can't set it up either.
[15:42] <jrwren> we've had a couple guys trying it and both failed independantly.
[15:42] <jrwren> it works if you do things EXACTLY right, but as soon as ANYTHING is different - fail.
[15:42] <jrwren> like we have multi nics so spearate mgmt network and cloud network and NOPE
[15:42] <jrwren> all fail
[15:43] <jcastro> send me your problems, I can have people look at them
[15:43] <jcastro> very quickly too
[15:44] <jrwren> that is what I keep telling the guys here - i'm tell 'em, talk to jcastro, he is local - but they never do.
[15:44] <jcastro> anything openstack or maas related I can get looked at
[15:44] <jcastro> or hell, file a bug
[15:45] <jrwren> I've not had to do it myself, so I've not directly experienced the pain or success, but I'll let them know.
[15:45] <jcastro> DO NOT SUFFER IN SILENCE
[15:47] <UnFixed> not sure who it was that mentioned the MUG meeting last night, but thanks.
[15:47] <snap-l> But suffering in silence is webscale.
[15:47] <UnFixed> i saw it beofre leaving work
[15:48] <UnFixed> decided to head over, enjoyed it
[15:48] <snap-l> UnFixed: I think that was me. :)
[15:48] <snap-l> Welcome. :)
[15:48] <UnFixed> :D
[15:48] <snap-l> Hope you can make it back to the upcoming meetings
[15:48] <snap-l> should be some good ones coming up
[15:48] <UnFixed> farmington is a little out of my way, but i do plan to try to make it to some
[15:48] <snap-l> (note: I'm on the board, so take that with the appropriate disclaimers)
[15:49] <UnFixed> any idea on what the topics for the following meetings are?
[15:50] <UnFixed> someone skimmed through them at the meeting, but i can't recall them
[15:51] <rick_h_> http://blog.ziade.org/2013/02/13/fun-with-angularjs-amp-cornice/ for some pyramid/cornice/app love
[15:54] <snap-l> UnFixed: We have a calendar of upcoming events under mug.org/meetings
[15:55] <UnFixed> found it just a moment ago
[15:55] <snap-l> http://www.mug.org/?page=CiviCRM&q=civicrm/event/ical&reset=1&list=1&html=1
[15:55] <UnFixed> i didnt see the link at the bottom of the page
[15:55] <UnFixed> thanks
[15:55] <snap-l> Yeah, it doesn't jump out unfortunately
[16:09] <jrwren> jcastro: sellers just said we should take you to lunch sometime to talk openstack and maas
[16:10] <jcastro> awww yeah
[16:13] <jrwren> im gonna see if he wants to today. you up for lunch today?
[16:14] <snap-l> Must be nice. :)
[16:18] <jrwren> which part?
[16:19] <snap-l> The going to lunch part. :)
[16:19] <jrwren> ah, nope, people are all busy here.  another time and SOON
[16:34] <jrwren> whoa, cool https://launchpad.net/~zfs-native/+archive/stable
[22:22] <rick_h_> upvites
[22:22] <rick_h_> bah
[22:22] <rick_h_> upvotes appreciated: http://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/18h0vg/a_pebble_users_first_impressions_and_feedback/
[22:32] <greg-g> I just got this email from Carrie: "Rowan just peed on the back deck, came inside to get a rag, and is now wiping it up."
[22:33] <rick_h_> lol
[22:33] <greg-g> he's 14 months, effing crazy