len-1304good morning01:06
smartboyhwlen-1304, good morning01:07
len-1304I'm playing with bios settings and sound.01:07
smartboyhwI'm getting heating up for my classroom session 12 hours later01:08
len-1304Turning hyperthreading off seems to improve low latency work.01:08
smartboyhwlen-1304, oh does it?01:08
len-1304Ya, the context switching in hyperthreading takes time I guess.01:09
len-1304My machine might be slower over all, but I can run my audio card at 32 frames with just the odd xrun.01:10
len-1304(one in 30 minutes)01:10
len-1304Pulse doesn't like it :) But audacious still works through pulse and jack ok.01:11
len-1304gtreamer, however, can't keep up.01:12
len-1304But then, using pulse apps with jack doesn't need such low latency anyway. I just used it because it is a great stress test.01:13
zequence_len-1304: Cool. That's it, I really gotta start workign on -controls soon06:33
zequence_That stuff can be made switchable after al06:34
zequence_Or one might even consider hard coding that into -lowlatency06:36
=== zequence_ is now known as zequence
zequenceThat would mean less processing power overall though, right?06:37
smartboyhwHey scott-work doing my ISO tests session now13:32
scott-worksmartboyhw: good morning and thank you :)13:43
smartboyhwscott-work, for what?:P13:43
scott-workfor testing...and just being you ;)13:43
smartboyhwscott-work, LOL13:44
zequencescott-work: I redid the header again. What do you think? https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio13:48
smartboyhwzequence, nice!!!!!:D13:49
zequenceI'm thinking simple, simple now.13:49
scott-workwow zequence that is really nice!13:50
scott-worki also like how the images are links 13:50
scott-workas well13:50
scott-workand how the little bar (blue or orange) tells you where you are13:50
scott-workthat' really awesome :)13:51
zequenceYeah, I thought that you need something to indicate your whereabouts, if you were to use the same design on both wikis13:51
zequenceThe idea of "help" versus "wiki" is a little strange to me.13:52
smartboyhwzequence, you should go and pursue a career in Art:P13:53
zequenceI guess help.community.wiki is mostly used for housing straight forward documentation. We've been using help. also as a wiki, while we haven't been using the wiki for both users and des13:53
zequenceWhat I'm saying is the roles of help.ubuntu.com and wiki.ubuntu.com as far as Ubuntu Studio is concerned are a little unclear to me13:55
zequencesmartboyhw: I'm not an artist, but doing stuff for Ubuntu Studio, and not making it look good would feel a little shameful13:56
smartboyhwzequence, :)13:57
zequenceI don't nessecarily feel there needs to be a strict line between user and dev, but the way it's organized now does put one pretty firmly. I'm a little pedantic with categorization and organization, to a point14:00
zequenceSimplicity is always good. And to achieve that, it's important not to do any unessecary categorization14:01
* smartboyhw suddenly thought zequence is a waste of not going into Human Resources14:02
zequenceWhile playing with the header, I felt one could already cram most of the important stuff there14:02
zequenceAnd that is what I like most about it14:02
zequenceThe thing about this layout is that the line between the two wikis is more or less erased14:03
zequenceAnd you could just as well house everything in one place, if you wanted to14:04
zequenceIt's just that "user" and "dev" happen to have pages on different wikis14:04
zequenceSome user stuff could just as well be in wiki.ubuntu.com14:05
zequenceThat's just some thoughts I've had about it14:05
zequenceThere are two factors that I think about doing this. 1) simplicity, easy orientation, and all important info is easy to find 2) Our wikis see very little community action, so we might as well organize more in the form of static documentation. This means we can design the wiki for the community, and not have the community design the wiki.14:09
zequenceOr, the wikis, as there are two14:09
zequenceProbably the only section that matters to individuals who want to contribute is a howto section, where they can add stuff.14:10
zequenceI mean, contribute in the sense of adding to the wiki14:10
zequenceThe rest we should do for them14:10
zequenceOr, from within our organization, so to speak14:11
zequenceBecause of the new header, the landing pages for both help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio and wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio need to be redone from scratch. Most of the stuff on those pages are already in the header14:13
zequencescott-work: Oh, that reminds me. Yesterday I was thinking about how to redo the wiki landing pages. And, I came to think about the mission statement14:14
zequencescott-work: I think it would be a good time to think about that now :)14:14
zequencescott-work: Do you have some ideas somewhere for it?14:14
Len-nbzequence, lowlatency and performance are generally at odds with each other.14:29
scott-workLen-nb: why do you say that?14:30
Len-nbIn low latency performance is given up for being able to determine a fixed latency.14:30
scott-workzequence: i do have some ideas, rough ones. i have an important meeting and interview back-to-back starting in 1.5 hours, but this afternoon i would love go into more detail with you14:30
scott-workLen-nb: oh, oh. i wouldn't say they are at odds then, just that you can't maximize performance14:31
zequencescott-work: the insurance of making sure something arrives on time makes less come through. Throughput of -lowlatency is 10% less than on -generic14:31
zequenceAnd Len-nb suggested some more variables eariler14:31
zequenceThat disabling hyperthreading would make low latency more reliable14:32
zequenceThat would probably have a much bigger effect, than what already exists14:32
zequenceInteresting to find out how big14:33
Len-nbUsing the mouse to drag an object across the screen is bad :)14:33
Len-nbBut that is not some thing normally done while recording.14:33
Len-nbgotta go14:34
zequenceBoth hyper threading, and other processes should not affect realtime audio though, if the system is properly designed14:34
scott-worki understand the concept, but it just struck me as that "you can either have lowlatency but not performance" was being said. which is just my misunderstanding what he was saying14:34
scott-worki believe we get pretty damn good performance from lowlatency, myself :)14:35
scott-workbut i understand you wouldn't want to use it for stock trading, let's say14:35
len-13049 hours at 32 frames with no xruns. I was never able to do that before14:54
len-1304scott-work, yes there is a trade of of performace for latency, but it is not big.14:55
len-1304It is very hard to tell because at a lower latency, more cpu is used to deal with the audio too.14:56
len-1304The PA-jack bridge is a great test tool for this as pa takes more cpu than jack and brings out the effect14:57
zequencescott-work: do you have time? Just let me know when would be a good time. 18:48
scott-workzequence: i think i'm good now if you want to discuss things :)20:45
zequencescott-work: Ok, great21:13
zequenceOh, time flies21:13
zequenceI was just getting something to eat.21:13
scott-worki'm here for another hour or so, go get something to eat21:15
zequencescott-work: No, sorry. I meant, I just ate21:15
zequencescott-work: I've started a page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/MissionStatement21:15
zequenceWas just looking at what else to put in there for material21:16
zequencePutting in the stuff from the blueprint21:16
scott-workzequence: do you think ubuntu studio should provide a basic desktop functionality?21:17
zequencescott-work: That's ubuntustudio-desktop more or less21:18
zequenceMy list is more intended for the developer view of things. I think if we write something up for users, or just anyone, it doesn't need to be as formal. Also, my list was a suggestion to begin with21:19
scott-worksorry, that question didn't come out as i intended21:20
scott-worki was wondering if that it being a minimal pedestrian desktop usage should be included21:21
zequenceI'd like it if we after agreeing on what Ubuntu Studio is, or should be doing, that we condense that into as few words as possible. Something almost slogan like. And then, also, keep a more formal page with a more in depth description of what that is21:21
zequencescott-work: Sorry, I seem to not understand :)21:22
scott-workno, no. it was my fault21:23
scott-worki'm wondering if we should also mention that we are constrained within the ubuntu ecosphere...meaning there will be certain application that might never be included by default21:23
zequenceI added your list of things, if you didn't refresh yet, btw21:23
zequenceI guess we are constrained for two reasons. One being legal. The other, possibly, being that we prefer FLOSS over non FLOSS, and therefore, everything is FLOSS21:25
zequenceOr, what kind of applications do you mean?21:25
scott-worki forget the name, but i believe it was a sampler that has a funny license issue with it21:26
zequencePerformance is important, so we might constrain some things because of that21:27
scott-worklinux sampler?21:27
zequencelinux-sampler is not in any of the distros21:27
zequenceYeah, there are a couple. 21:27
zequencecinerella too21:27
zequenceBut, I think it might be possible to get linux-sampler into the repos though21:27
scott-workcinerella used to be in the repos didn't it? that is suprising that it isn't in there anymore. but not that i keep current with the repos though21:28
zequencePerhaps harder to get it on a ISO. But, there are non-free things in the kernel, so why not?21:29
zequenceNo, I don't think cinerella has ever been in any of the repos. Only PPA, and similar external repos21:29
zequenceI might be wrong21:30
zequenceSo, we should mention that the applications we offer are official Ubuntu packages - not a separate thing. And, that most of them come directly from Debian21:31
zequenceI had an idea about keeping a "What is Ubuntu Studio" page, where things like that would be clarified21:32
zequenceFor a short version, it would be enough just to say: Ubuntu Studio is an official flavor of Ubuntu. For a long version, one can explain also the relationship with Debian, and why not other Ubuntu derivatives, like Mint and KX21:37
zequenceFLOSS, Ubuntu, the whole licensing issue..21:39
scott-workzequence: what about "provide complete multimedia workflows of FLOSS applications for the beginners and professional content creator"21:41
zequencescott-work: Ok, so here's another aspect too. We want to target both beginners and pros21:42
scott-workfor a missions statement it's a little clunky, but succinct, and i think covers the majority of what we need to consider21:42
scott-workwe could also prepend "using ubuntu official repositories, provide...."21:43
scott-worki really hope we can leverage ttoine's experience so that we can prepare real documentation for a pro studio21:43
zequenceI'm know myself around a recording studio, and so does holstein. All of us do a little bit different kinds of music, but I feel pretty confident on that area21:45
zequenceI'm more worried about the other areas. But that's mostly cause I don't know them myself at all, or very little21:46
zequenceLinux is actually quite ok for pro audio. It's the semi pro field that is a little worse. People who like the software to do the job for them21:47
zequenceThings are less good looking, etc21:47
zequenceA sound engineer can do a lot with raw tools, if needed, while a "beginner" might get things sounding ok with good presets21:50
zequenceAnyway, I added what's been said so far to the wiki page, so please refresh21:51
zequenceA little chaotic21:51
scott-workagreed. i have felt the same way and think i even made a blog post with a similar expression21:53
zequenceI think another thing that I would like Ubuntu Studio to do is to really become the centre point of Linux Floss multimedia. 21:54
scott-workgive linux to a platinum record producer and a PT setup with all the plugins and i expect that you will get far different results from the two21:54
zequenceWhat I mean by that is, we are at the forefront, technology wise, but also a source for information21:56
zequenceWe provide news, and link to others. We know the developers. We know the community. We branch out everywhere21:58
zequenceSomeone who is new to Linux multimedia should be able to find all the branches through us21:59
scott-workzequence: i need to go, i still have to get stuff for the kids before i get home. see everyone tomorrow22:01

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