phillwhi folks, any one available to let me know an up to date list for someone available to hold a ~30 minute session on -classroom to let new people to 13.04 about you?00:44
pleia2^^ for May, someone other than pleia2 (I'll be on my honeymoon)00:45
phillwpleia2: I'd already ruled you out :D00:46
GridCubeif i get a draft about what to say i could try to do it00:47
pleia2the team could probably etherpad one for you00:47
pleia2phillw: I know you have, I was telling everyone else lest they voluntell me to do it ;)00:48
phillwpleia2: I know that feeling :D00:48
=== bluesabre1 is now known as bluesabre_
bluesabre_Now Catfish is going to need some build testing...  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/experimental/revision/3802:46
bluesabre_any takers?   ;-)  It works for me, but so do lots of other broken things02:47
smartboyhwbluesabre, oh?02:47
smartboyhwI can02:47
bluesabre_you can define the python version to use with configure --python=python or --python=python3 now too02:48
bluesabre_code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/experimental02:48
smartboyhwbluesabre, got it02:48
bluesabre_I'm heading to bed now, hopefully it works for you, if not, leave me a note here :)02:48
Unit193bluesabre_: 0.6.0 compiled fine for me.02:58
Unit193Both python2 and 3, and of course python3 took more ram.03:02
Unit193bluesabre_: However, is generating the deb/ subfolder expected?  Has a control file in it.03:03
micahg_mobileHow did 12.04.2 work out?05:30
=== zequence_ is now known as zequence
bluesabre_Unit193, yeah, that's expected.  The deb folder is never installed, only used when you do make deb10:17
Pretenderwhere is bug tracker ?10:18
PretenderI can not find link to bug tracker on site xubuntu.org.10:19
bluesabre_Pretender, what would you like to report a bug on?  Bugs are tracked on Launchpad, mostly for individual projects and applications10:28
ochosiPretender: depends on what you want to file a bug against, but generally speaking bugs.launchpad.com10:28
ochosidarn, too slow :)10:28
bluesabre_morning ochosi10:29
Pretenderthanks. I'm not happy with the version 12.1010:31
Pretender I'm not happy with the version X.org 1.13 in 12.10, because my nvidia driver not support this. 10:32
bluesabre_Pretender, which driver are you trying to use, and what gpu do you have?10:34
PretenderOn xubuntu.org i find text "It works well on older hardware too", but this is not true in xubuntu 12.1010:34
bluesabre_It's difficult to support some older graphical drivers, especially when they have historically required the use of proprietary drivers.  If the support is no longer available in nvidia's proprietary code, it's not really possible to support it.10:39
bluesabre_Have you tried the nouveau driver?10:39
Pretenderbluesabre, i have Geforce 4 TI 4200. (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-96). This is a known problem10:39
Pretenderyes, i try nouveau driver, but he work not good. Very slow and many artifacts on screen (panels blink and other)10:41
bluesabre_I don't know what additional advice to offer then beyond sticking with the 12.04 LTS since it will continue to receive security updates for the foreseeable future.10:42
astraljavaPretender: Might be worth a try to check http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix, before filing bugs. Or at least, you might know what type of bugs you should be filing.10:45
Pretenderthis link to fixed my bug in 12.04 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-173/+bug/948053. But i do not understand where i can find similar bug for version 12.10.10:47
ubottuUbuntu bug 948053 in NVIDIA Drivers Ubuntu "nvidia-173 and nvidia-96 uninstallable on Precise" [Undecided,New]10:47
Pretenderubottu, this bug was fixed, and in 12.04 everything is okey. But version 12.10 have X.org 1.13 and crash video driver, because NVDIA supprot only Xorg 1.12 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-96.43.23-driver.html)10:52
Pretenderbluesabre, yes I rolled back to 12.04.1. Thanks for advice.10:58
astraljavaPretender: It seems that 1.13 underwent a whole bunch of changes, so it is possible that not all drivers have, or will have support for this. It's also possible that for some older chipsets, even the nouveau driver won't receive full support.11:11
bluesabre_mrpouit, with my recent changes to the catfish experimental branch, are there any concerns as far as packaging?  (Just trying to solve any problems early) :)12:03
GridCubehi Pretender :) as far as i understand it, the best way to get involved on the development of xubuntu is this: 1) stick around and help users to fix their problems, this will give you an idea of how xubuntu works. 2) find a program you like, and has a bug, and fix it, send the patch to the developers and get involved with them to help make the system better. 3) keep doing 1 and 2 till you feel secure ennough, and by then you wont have14:16
GridCube to ask about step 4 :D14:16
PretenderGridCube, ok, thanks :)14:20
GridCubePretender, for starters we do highly need iso testers14:21
PretenderWhere i can read about this topic ? (ISO tester) How i can start ?14:40
smartboyhwPretender, you just missed 85% of my classroom session14:41
GridCubesmartboyhw, is giving a classroom about it right now on #ubuntu-classroom Pretender 14:41
smartboyhwGridCube, paste him the logs please:P14:41
GridCubePretender, if you dont mind some private spam i can paste you the logs14:41
smartboyhwGridCube, thx14:42
GridCubeor even better http://pastebin.com/chxEZQGC14:46
bluesabrethat's awesome14:48
bluesabreI'm working on a blog post on daily iso testing (for any *buntu), I'll have to link to those logs14:48
smartboyhwbluesabre, I will give you later14:49
GridCubethere will be official logs later14:49
bluesabre<JoseeAntonioR> Logs for this session will be available at  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/13/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following  the conclusion of the session.14:53
=== xnox is now known as foxtrot
=== foxtrot is now known as xnox
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
pleia2knome: do we need any more edits on this announcement?17:52
knomepleia2, just a moment17:53
knomereintroduction vs. re-introduction17:53
pleia2looks like reintroduction is a word17:54
pleia2so that17:54
knomethat looks good to me17:54
knomejust fix the # on the IRC channel name17:54
* pleia2 nods17:54
knome(i hate when services "autofix" that)17:54
pleia2I'll publish real quick17:54
knomesure, thanks17:55
knomei can tweet it17:55
knomewife just went to work, so i'm going to work on various things17:55
GridCubeknome, you should talk to cjwatson :)17:57
knomeGridCube, ...about?17:57
GridCubenew iso size, he was asking earlier17:57
knomeright, i'll check the backlog17:58
knomepleia2, ta17:59
pleia2put on the G+18:03
* pleia2 back2work18:03
bluesabrehas the raring iso already had the seed updated to include gimp and gnumeric?18:09
* GridCube wouldnt think so18:10
PjotrHello, I would like to present an update for the results of the poll that I started two days ago, on the Dutch Ubuntu forum.18:31
PjotrI mentioned this poll in the meeting of Monday night. The poll question was put to Xubuntu users, whether they usually do or do not install Libre Office in Xubuntu.18:31
PjotrThe poll results are now, after 48 hours: 90 % (18 votes) YES, and 10 % (2 votes) NO. 18:32
PjotrSee: http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/algemeen-42/peiling-xubuntugebruikers-heb-je-er-libre-office-bij-geinstalleerd/18:32
Pjotr(you may need Google Translate in order to understand what's written there)18:32
PjotrSo a vast majority of the voters always installs Libre Office in their Xubuntu as a matter of course. Which would make adding Libre Office to the iso, seem desirable from the viewpoint of user-friendliness.18:32
PjotrThis isn't relevant anymore for Raring, as the decision was made not to include Libre Office in the Xubuntu iso by default. But this may be relevant for the discussion about Raring +1.18:32
GridCubePjotr, it wasn't ruled out persé, so you could bring it up in the next meeting, or send a mail to the dev list18:46
GridCubebut as with any new inclussion you need to do a application comparison explaining reasons and suchs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap18:49
PjotrGridCube: I'll look into that, thanks.... But I was under the impression that the implicit choices for the inclusion of Gnumeric and a 1 GB cap for Raring, rule out the inclusion of Libre Office18:51
Pjotrimplicit = explicit18:52
GridCubePjotr, maybe, i don't know, i do know that that wasnt explicitly voted, so...18:52
knomePjotr, decisions about the applications to include in the ISO depend on the strategy document18:52
knomePjotr, at the moment, i don't think the document extends to measures that'd it be fine to include LO18:53
Pjotrknome: well, to be honest I see no formal objections in the strategy document.... 19:00
PjotrBut I think Raring +1 is a good target for this discussion. Then we have more time... :-)19:01
knome" Packages that will pull heavy/costly libs (i.e. "half of GNOME"), especially if they will run and/or start frequently "19:01
pleia2also "Resource consumption. In its entirety, along with all libraries, how much memory does the application use? Does it use libraries that are already in use?"19:02
knomeyes, i was about to paste that too19:02
knomeyes, it doesn't imply that there is *absolutely no way* of getting LO in, but it does pale in comparison for abiword/gnumeric here19:03
pleia2the benefit of abiword and gnumeric is they're already using a lot of things we pull in already so they're more integrated into the environment19:03
pleia2knome: man, we've got this party line down!19:03
pleia2for the record, I also install LO and I like it a lot as an application :) just Xubuntu project-wise it never really felt like it fit19:04
knomeyes, i do that too.19:04
knomeotoh, i install many more applications that would never "fit" in the xubuntu ISO19:05
PjotrThere's the competition to think of: http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_nadia_xfce_whatsnew.php#software19:05
bluesabreI always test the latest version, but I do all my documents on google drive at this point (and notes on zim, I love zim)19:05
knomewhat "competition" ?19:05
knomeif mint wants to use LO, and people use mint instead of xubuntu because of that, that's fine19:05
knomewhatever fits you best19:06
pleia2bluesabre: I'm increasingly going that way too, I actually just realized I didn't install LO on the laptop I'm on now because my current presentations are even in gdocs (export to PDF if needed)19:06
knomei personally, and i think we as a team, don't think LO is a very good match to xfce/xubuntu19:06
=== mrpouit is now known as mr_pouit
PjotrWell, perhaps I'll be able to convince you one day. :P19:07
pleia2Pjotr: can you send your survey results to the -devel list? that way we can find them easily the next time this discussion comes up :)19:08
knomethe dutch ones19:08
Pjotrpleia2: OK. 19:08
Pjotrknome: is there a reason to expect other countries to have different results for  a similar poll?19:09
pleia2I don't think country has much to do with it, but demographics of who you are polling does19:09
knomePjotr, no, i was just referring to the fact that it's in *dutch* language19:09
pleia2if you're polling a lot of students, they may be more inclined to install a more comprehensive office suite19:09
knomei mean, "dutch *language*" :)19:10
knomeyup, that's true19:10
Pjotrknome: OK. Thank heaven for Google Translate. :-)19:10
pleia2if you're polling my uncle, he just plays Mahjongg19:10
knomehuho, don't talk about google translate. i'm just trying to set up some serious translations for a few projects :P19:11
bluesabremakes for a good start on bad translations :D19:11
bluesabreAdmittedly, I've used that in the past to fill in untranslated strings for menulibre/catfish19:11
bluesabretrying to not do that in the future :D19:12
Pjotrknome: launchpad packages? I'm an upstream Dutch translator for Xfce, so I might be able to help19:12
knomeno, not launchpad packages :)19:12
Unit193GTranslate is one of the better ones, but no non-human translator is awesome.19:12
* knome slaps bluesabre 19:12
bluesabredon't translate 98% of a project!19:13
bluesabrethat's just sloppy19:13
knomebluesabre, haha! don't let people translate stuff like "toolboxicon1"19:14
* bluesabre is just thinking out loud and doesn't mean to offend anyone19:14
Pjotrbluesabre: I finished the Catfish Dutch translation today.... the old-fashioned way. :-)19:14
bluesabrethanks Pjotr!19:14
Pjotrtogglebutton1 was a hard one, but it disappeared, I think19:15
bluesabreyeah, cleaned up my sloppiness19:15
bluesabrethen added 3 more strings19:15
bluesabreknome, ochosi ^19:15
knomebluesabre, that's the reason people only translate 98% of your strings, you always leave some idiot strings there19:16
PjotrDone those 3 today. Catfish is cool.19:16
knomewhat was the correct url to translate again?19:16
Pjotrbluesabre: are you Sean davis?19:17
bluesabreI didn't touch the dutch translation, I promise :D19:18
PjotrThought so... Thanks for Catfish: a fine tool19:18
* knome kicks LP with its timeouts19:18
bluesabreit's originally thanks to kalikiana on #xfce-dev19:19
bluesabreI just started maintaining it last year19:19
knome"Show debug messages (-vv debugs catfish_lib also)"19:19
knomebluesabre, did you intend to change that string?19:19
bluesabreCouldn't think of a better string19:19
knomeand "debugs" is a translatabele word?19:20
PjotrIt was doable in Dutch. No worries. 19:20
bluesabreas much as "translatabele"19:20
bluesabreis there no verb equivalent for debug in finnish?19:21
knomesomething like "Show debug messages (-vv shows debugs messages for catfish_lib as well)" sounds accurate?19:21
knomeno, not really19:21
bluesabrewhere torvalds is from, seriously?19:21
knomewe just use finglish19:21
bluesabrethat sounds fine to me19:21
knomeok, fine19:21
Pjotrdebug = error search. Then it's translatable. :-)19:22
knomewould dropping "-vv" from that still sound good?19:22
knomei'm translating it to "error messages"19:22
bluesabreprobably not19:22
bluesabre-v = debug19:22
bluesabre-vv = more debug19:23
knomeah right19:23
knomeit's the commandline help.19:23
bluesabre-vvv = x/zero (don't do it!)19:23
knomefinnish is done19:23
bluesabrethanks knome!19:23
bluesabrea 0.6.0 release this weekend is looking more realistic19:24
Pjotrwill it land in Raring?19:24
knomewhy doesn't   sed -i "s/thing/$VAR/g' filename    work in bash?19:24
knomeit just prints $VAR, not the contents of it19:24
bluesabrePjotr: It should make it to raring19:25
bluesabreIf knome/micahg_/mrpouit want, that could be my first official upload to the repos :)19:25
knomebluesabre, i want, please make micahg_ and mr_pouit sponsor it19:26
PjotrBy the way, I forgot to ask on Monday, but how about GDebi in the iso? Ideal for installing .debs. Much more lightweight than Software Center.19:28
knomeit's not a replacement.19:29
Pjotras extra19:29
knomethen it's just extra load.19:29
PjotrSmall package...19:30
bluesabreLast time I checked, gdebi was not being maintained very well19:30
Pjotrused to be in Ubuntu for a long time, together with Synaptic and Install/Remove Software19:30
knomei must kick mvo for actually maintaining synaptic longer than he told he'd do19:31
pleia2I'd be more open to a proposal to include aptitude or synaptic19:31
bluesabresynaptic just had a gtk3 release a few weeks agi19:31
pleia2aptitude is awesome for resolving apt getting all broken19:31
bluesabrecracked me up19:31
PjotrGDebi eats very little system resources. Nifty tool for debs like Google Chrome19:31
knomeyes... synaptic probably should be in at some point O:)19:31
pleia2not having it when apt wedges is :(19:31
pleia2(and once you have aptitude, synaptic isn't much more)19:32
GridCubei never understood aptitude19:35
GridCubei went from synaptic to apt-get 19:35
bluesabre... to gone19:36
pleia2my fiance uses it religiously with the ncurses interface, I've only ever used it to unwedge apt or if I was looking for creative dependency resolution19:36
genii-aroundI'm stuck in my apt-get ways :-(19:36
bluesabreI think I just use apt-get unless I'm browsing the software-center for a game19:36
pleia2I just use apt-get19:37
knomeapt-get is good19:39
PjotrGdebi consists out of two packages: Gdebi and Gdebi-core. Installer size of those two combined: 0.2 MB. Installed on disk: 1.4 MB. Not much...19:48
knomeyes, it's light... but it's still extra.19:50
bluesabre1-app, 1-purpose is usually a good way to go (or is it the other way around)?19:51
bluesabreor did I just make that up?19:51
bluesabretoo lazy to google19:51
Pjotrbluesabre: you only have one knife in your house for all purposes?  :-)19:52
bluesabreI'm an american, the bread knife handles most of the things I need to cut19:53
pleia2it's general unix philosophy :)19:53
bluesabreor is that kentuckian?19:53
bluesabreI'll stop now, I'm going to offend everyone today19:53
bluesabrebtw, terminal: cal 9 175219:54
pleia2that's when we got our calendar sorted, now we have leap years :)19:55
bluesabreyup, pretty awesome19:56
bluesabredoing linux cert training19:56
PjotrHave to go now. Bye all.  :-)19:57
bluesabreHave fun!19:57
=== Noskcaj is now known as Noskcaj_IsAtScho
=== Noskcaj_IsAtScho is now known as Noskcaj_Schooll
=== Noskcaj_Schooll is now known as Noskcaj_School
epifaniohi All21:50
epifanioi'd like to try  ubuntu on my laptop (without dvd player) .. but for unfortunate reason (it is a mac with efi boot) the standard iso doesn't boot21:52
epifanioafter some attemt .. i found a solution into the alternate iso21:52
epifanioi made a bootable usb using the alternate iso, and it boot just fine on my mac 21:53
epifanio.. the problem is that i need to "try" the distro as a live disk21:53
epifaniobut the alternate iso doesn't provide this option21:54
epifanio.. i was thinking to rebuild the iso using chroot and adding in the new build the needed deb's to add the "live functionalities"21:54
epifaniocan you please help me to understand which packages do i need in order to add the "live option" ?21:55
=== bluesabre is now known as bluesabre_
GridCubeepifanio, please go to #xubuntu this is the -devel channel :)21:59
knomei suppose technically the question could belong here too, but since the answer is "use the desktop iso and file a bug if it doesn't work", i agree with GridCube..22:33
knomei need my laptop here22:33

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