[00:44] <phillw> hi folks, any one available to let me know an up to date list for someone available to hold a ~30 minute session on -classroom to let new people to 13.04 about you?
[00:45] <pleia2> ^^ for May, someone other than pleia2 (I'll be on my honeymoon)
[00:46] <phillw> pleia2: I'd already ruled you out :D
[00:47] <GridCube> if i get a draft about what to say i could try to do it
[00:47] <pleia2> the team could probably etherpad one for you
[00:48] <pleia2> phillw: I know you have, I was telling everyone else lest they voluntell me to do it ;)
[00:48] <phillw> pleia2: I know that feeling :D
[02:46] <bluesabre_> Now Catfish is going to need some build testing...  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/experimental/revision/38
[02:47] <bluesabre_> any takers?   ;-)  It works for me, but so do lots of other broken things
[02:47] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, oh?
[02:47] <smartboyhw> I can
[02:48] <bluesabre_> you can define the python version to use with configure --python=python or --python=python3 now too
[02:48] <bluesabre_> code is at https://code.launchpad.net/~smd-seandavis/catfish-search/experimental
[02:48] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, got it
[02:48] <bluesabre_> I'm heading to bed now, hopefully it works for you, if not, leave me a note here :)
[02:58] <Unit193> bluesabre_: 0.6.0 compiled fine for me.
[03:02] <Unit193> Both python2 and 3, and of course python3 took more ram.
[03:03] <Unit193> bluesabre_: However, is generating the deb/ subfolder expected?  Has a control file in it.
[05:30] <micahg_mobile> How did 12.04.2 work out?
[10:17] <bluesabre_> Unit193, yeah, that's expected.  The deb folder is never installed, only used when you do make deb
[10:18] <Pretender> where is bug tracker ?
[10:19] <Pretender> I can not find link to bug tracker on site xubuntu.org.
[10:28] <bluesabre_> Pretender, what would you like to report a bug on?  Bugs are tracked on Launchpad, mostly for individual projects and applications
[10:28] <ochosi> Pretender: depends on what you want to file a bug against, but generally speaking bugs.launchpad.com
[10:28] <ochosi> darn, too slow :)
[10:28] <bluesabre_> lol
[10:29] <bluesabre_> morning ochosi
[10:31] <Pretender> thanks. I'm not happy with the version 12.10
[10:32] <Pretender>  I'm not happy with the version X.org 1.13 in 12.10, because my nvidia driver not support this. 
[10:34] <bluesabre_> Pretender, which driver are you trying to use, and what gpu do you have?
[10:34] <Pretender> On xubuntu.org i find text "It works well on older hardware too", but this is not true in xubuntu 12.10
[10:39] <bluesabre_> It's difficult to support some older graphical drivers, especially when they have historically required the use of proprietary drivers.  If the support is no longer available in nvidia's proprietary code, it's not really possible to support it.
[10:39] <bluesabre_> Have you tried the nouveau driver?
[10:39] <Pretender> bluesabre, i have Geforce 4 TI 4200. (https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-96). This is a known problem
[10:41] <Pretender> yes, i try nouveau driver, but he work not good. Very slow and many artifacts on screen (panels blink and other)
[10:42] <bluesabre_> I don't know what additional advice to offer then beyond sticking with the 12.04 LTS since it will continue to receive security updates for the foreseeable future.
[10:45] <astraljava> Pretender: Might be worth a try to check http://nouveau.freedesktop.org/wiki/FeatureMatrix, before filing bugs. Or at least, you might know what type of bugs you should be filing.
[10:47] <Pretender> this link to fixed my bug in 12.04 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/nvidia-graphics-drivers-173/+bug/948053. But i do not understand where i can find similar bug for version 12.10.
[10:52] <Pretender> ubottu, this bug was fixed, and in 12.04 everything is okey. But version 12.10 have X.org 1.13 and crash video driver, because NVDIA supprot only Xorg 1.12 (http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-display-ia32-96.43.23-driver.html)
[10:58] <Pretender> bluesabre, yes I rolled back to 12.04.1. Thanks for advice.
[11:11] <astraljava> Pretender: It seems that 1.13 underwent a whole bunch of changes, so it is possible that not all drivers have, or will have support for this. It's also possible that for some older chipsets, even the nouveau driver won't receive full support.
[12:03] <bluesabre_> mrpouit, with my recent changes to the catfish experimental branch, are there any concerns as far as packaging?  (Just trying to solve any problems early) :)
[14:16] <GridCube> hi Pretender :) as far as i understand it, the best way to get involved on the development of xubuntu is this: 1) stick around and help users to fix their problems, this will give you an idea of how xubuntu works. 2) find a program you like, and has a bug, and fix it, send the patch to the developers and get involved with them to help make the system better. 3) keep doing 1 and 2 till you feel secure ennough, and by then you wont have
[14:16] <GridCube>  to ask about step 4 :D
[14:20] <Pretender> GridCube, ok, thanks :)
[14:21] <GridCube> Pretender, for starters we do highly need iso testers
[14:22] <smartboyhw> Yea
[14:40] <Pretender> Where i can read about this topic ? (ISO tester) How i can start ?
[14:41] <smartboyhw> Pretender, you just missed 85% of my classroom session
[14:41] <GridCube> smartboyhw, is giving a classroom about it right now on #ubuntu-classroom Pretender 
[14:41] <GridCube> XD
[14:41] <smartboyhw> GridCube, paste him the logs please:P
[14:41] <smartboyhw> XD
[14:41] <GridCube> Pretender, if you dont mind some private spam i can paste you the logs
[14:42] <smartboyhw> GridCube, thx
[14:46] <GridCube> or even better http://pastebin.com/chxEZQGC
[14:46] <GridCube> :D
[14:48] <bluesabre> that's awesome
[14:48] <bluesabre> I'm working on a blog post on daily iso testing (for any *buntu), I'll have to link to those logs
[14:49] <smartboyhw> bluesabre, I will give you later
[14:49] <GridCube> there will be official logs later
[14:53] <Pretender> thanks
[14:53] <bluesabre> yeah
 Logs for this session will be available at  http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2013/02/13/%23ubuntu-classroom.html following  the conclusion of the session.
[17:52] <pleia2> knome: do we need any more edits on this announcement?
[17:53] <knome> pleia2, just a moment
[17:53] <knome> reintroduction vs. re-introduction
[17:54] <pleia2> looks like reintroduction is a word
[17:54] <pleia2> so that
[17:54] <knome> that looks good to me
[17:54] <knome> just fix the # on the IRC channel name
[17:54]  * pleia2 nods
[17:54] <knome> (i hate when services "autofix" that)
[17:54] <pleia2> I'll publish real quick
[17:55] <knome> sure, thanks
[17:55] <knome> i can tweet it
[17:55] <knome> wife just went to work, so i'm going to work on various things
[17:55] <pleia2> k
[17:57] <GridCube> knome, you should talk to cjwatson :)
[17:57] <knome> GridCube, ...about?
[17:57] <GridCube> new iso size, he was asking earlier
[17:58] <knome> right, i'll check the backlog
[17:58] <GridCube> :)
[17:58] <pleia2> http://xubuntu.org/news/xubuntu-goes-1gb-for-raring-gimp-and-gnumeric-are-back/
[17:59] <knome> done.
[17:59] <knome> pleia2, ta
[18:00] <knome> tweeted
[18:01] <GridCube> :)
[18:03] <bluesabre> retweeted
[18:03] <pleia2> put on the G+
[18:03]  * pleia2 back2work
[18:04] <knome> hf
[18:09] <bluesabre> has the raring iso already had the seed updated to include gimp and gnumeric?
[18:10]  * GridCube wouldnt think so
[18:31] <Pjotr> Hello, I would like to present an update for the results of the poll that I started two days ago, on the Dutch Ubuntu forum.
[18:31] <Pjotr> I mentioned this poll in the meeting of Monday night. The poll question was put to Xubuntu users, whether they usually do or do not install Libre Office in Xubuntu.
[18:32] <Pjotr> The poll results are now, after 48 hours: 90 % (18 votes) YES, and 10 % (2 votes) NO. 
[18:32] <Pjotr> See: http://forum.ubuntu-nl.org/algemeen-42/peiling-xubuntugebruikers-heb-je-er-libre-office-bij-geinstalleerd/
[18:32] <Pjotr> (you may need Google Translate in order to understand what's written there)
[18:32] <Pjotr> So a vast majority of the voters always installs Libre Office in their Xubuntu as a matter of course. Which would make adding Libre Office to the iso, seem desirable from the viewpoint of user-friendliness.
[18:32] <Pjotr> This isn't relevant anymore for Raring, as the decision was made not to include Libre Office in the Xubuntu iso by default. But this may be relevant for the discussion about Raring +1.
[18:46] <GridCube> Pjotr, it wasn't ruled out persé, so you could bring it up in the next meeting, or send a mail to the dev list
[18:49] <GridCube> but as with any new inclussion you need to do a application comparison explaining reasons and suchs, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Roadmap
[18:51] <Pjotr> GridCube: I'll look into that, thanks.... But I was under the impression that the implicit choices for the inclusion of Gnumeric and a 1 GB cap for Raring, rule out the inclusion of Libre Office
[18:52] <Pjotr> implicit = explicit
[18:52] <GridCube> Pjotr, maybe, i don't know, i do know that that wasnt explicitly voted, so...
[18:52] <knome> Pjotr, decisions about the applications to include in the ISO depend on the strategy document
[18:53] <knome> Pjotr, at the moment, i don't think the document extends to measures that'd it be fine to include LO
[19:00] <Pjotr> knome: well, to be honest I see no formal objections in the strategy document.... 
[19:01] <Pjotr> But I think Raring +1 is a good target for this discussion. Then we have more time... :-)
[19:01] <knome> " Packages that will pull heavy/costly libs (i.e. "half of GNOME"), especially if they will run and/or start frequently "
[19:02] <pleia2> also "Resource consumption. In its entirety, along with all libraries, how much memory does the application use? Does it use libraries that are already in use?"
[19:02] <knome> yes, i was about to paste that too
[19:03] <knome> yes, it doesn't imply that there is *absolutely no way* of getting LO in, but it does pale in comparison for abiword/gnumeric here
[19:03] <pleia2> the benefit of abiword and gnumeric is they're already using a lot of things we pull in already so they're more integrated into the environment
[19:03] <pleia2> knome: man, we've got this party line down!
[19:03] <knome> haha
[19:04] <pleia2> for the record, I also install LO and I like it a lot as an application :) just Xubuntu project-wise it never really felt like it fit
[19:04] <knome> yes, i do that too.
[19:05] <knome> otoh, i install many more applications that would never "fit" in the xubuntu ISO
[19:05] <Pjotr> There's the competition to think of: http://www.linuxmint.com/rel_nadia_xfce_whatsnew.php#software
[19:05] <bluesabre> I always test the latest version, but I do all my documents on google drive at this point (and notes on zim, I love zim)
[19:05] <knome> what "competition" ?
[19:05] <knome> if mint wants to use LO, and people use mint instead of xubuntu because of that, that's fine
[19:06] <knome> whatever fits you best
[19:06] <pleia2> bluesabre: I'm increasingly going that way too, I actually just realized I didn't install LO on the laptop I'm on now because my current presentations are even in gdocs (export to PDF if needed)
[19:06] <knome> i personally, and i think we as a team, don't think LO is a very good match to xfce/xubuntu
[19:07] <Pjotr> Well, perhaps I'll be able to convince you one day. :P
[19:07] <pleia2> :)
[19:08] <pleia2> Pjotr: can you send your survey results to the -devel list? that way we can find them easily the next time this discussion comes up :)
[19:08] <knome> the dutch ones
[19:08] <knome> ;)
[19:08] <Pjotr> pleia2: OK. 
[19:09] <Pjotr> knome: is there a reason to expect other countries to have different results for  a similar poll?
[19:09] <pleia2> I don't think country has much to do with it, but demographics of who you are polling does
[19:09] <knome> Pjotr, no, i was just referring to the fact that it's in *dutch* language
[19:09] <pleia2> if you're polling a lot of students, they may be more inclined to install a more comprehensive office suite
[19:10] <knome> i mean, "dutch *language*" :)
[19:10] <knome> yup, that's true
[19:10] <Pjotr> knome: OK. Thank heaven for Google Translate. :-)
[19:10] <pleia2> if you're polling my uncle, he just plays Mahjongg
[19:11] <knome> huho, don't talk about google translate. i'm just trying to set up some serious translations for a few projects :P
[19:11] <bluesabre> makes for a good start on bad translations :D
[19:11] <bluesabre> Admittedly, I've used that in the past to fill in untranslated strings for menulibre/catfish
[19:12] <bluesabre> trying to not do that in the future :D
[19:12] <Pjotr> knome: launchpad packages? I'm an upstream Dutch translator for Xfce, so I might be able to help
[19:12] <knome> no, not launchpad packages :)
[19:12] <Unit193> GTranslate is one of the better ones, but no non-human translator is awesome.
[19:12]  * knome slaps bluesabre 
[19:13] <bluesabre> don't translate 98% of a project!
[19:13] <bluesabre> that's just sloppy
[19:14] <knome> bluesabre, haha! don't let people translate stuff like "toolboxicon1"

[19:14]  * bluesabre is just thinking out loud and doesn't mean to offend anyone
[19:14] <Pjotr> bluesabre: I finished the Catfish Dutch translation today.... the old-fashioned way. :-)

[19:14] <knome> hah
[19:14] <bluesabre> thanks Pjotr!
[19:15] <Pjotr> togglebutton1 was a hard one, but it disappeared, I think
[19:15] <bluesabre> yeah, cleaned up my sloppiness
[19:15] <bluesabre> then added 3 more strings
[19:15] <bluesabre> knome, ochosi ^
[19:15] <bluesabre> ;)
[19:16] <knome> bluesabre, that's the reason people only translate 98% of your strings, you always leave some idiot strings there
[19:16] <knome> O:)
[19:16] <bluesabre> lol
[19:16] <Pjotr> Done those 3 today. Catfish is cool.
[19:16] <knome> what was the correct url to translate again?
[19:17] <bluesabre> https://translations.launchpad.net/catfish-search/experimental
[19:17] <knome> ta
[19:17] <Pjotr> bluesabre: are you Sean davis?
[19:18] <bluesabre> yup
[19:18] <bluesabre> I didn't touch the dutch translation, I promise :D
[19:18] <Pjotr> Thought so... Thanks for Catfish: a fine tool
[19:18]  * knome kicks LP with its timeouts
[19:19] <bluesabre> it's originally thanks to kalikiana on #xfce-dev
[19:19] <bluesabre> I just started maintaining it last year
[19:19] <knome> "Show debug messages (-vv debugs catfish_lib also)"
[19:19] <knome> bluesabre, did you intend to change that string?
[19:19] <bluesabre> Couldn't think of a better string
[19:19] <knome> k
[19:20] <knome> and "debugs" is a translatabele word?
[19:20] <Pjotr> It was doable in Dutch. No worries. 
[19:20] <knome> -e
[19:20] <bluesabre> as much as "translatabele"
[19:20] <knome> :D
[19:21] <bluesabre> is there no verb equivalent for debug in finnish?
[19:21] <knome> something like "Show debug messages (-vv shows debugs messages for catfish_lib as well)" sounds accurate?
[19:21] <knome> no, not really
[19:21] <bluesabre> where torvalds is from, seriously?
[19:21] <bluesabre> :D
[19:21] <knome> we just use finglish
[19:21] <bluesabre> that sounds fine to me
[19:21] <knome> ok, fine
[19:22] <Pjotr> debug = error search. Then it's translatable. :-)
[19:22] <knome> would dropping "-vv" from that still sound good?
[19:22] <knome> i'm translating it to "error messages"
[19:22] <bluesabre> probably not
[19:22] <knome> ok.
[19:22] <bluesabre> -v = debug
[19:23] <bluesabre> -vv = more debug
[19:23] <knome> ah right
[19:23] <knome> it's the commandline help.
[19:23] <knome> sure.
[19:23] <bluesabre> -vvv = x/zero (don't do it!)
[19:23] <knome> finnish is done
[19:23] <knome> hah
[19:23] <bluesabre> thanks knome!
[19:24] <bluesabre> a 0.6.0 release this weekend is looking more realistic
[19:24] <Pjotr> will it land in Raring?
[19:24] <knome> why doesn't   sed -i "s/thing/$VAR/g' filename    work in bash?
[19:24] <knome> it just prints $VAR, not the contents of it
[19:25] <bluesabre> Pjotr: It should make it to raring
[19:25] <Pjotr> Cool.
[19:25] <bluesabre> If knome/micahg_/mrpouit want, that could be my first official upload to the repos :)
[19:26] <knome> bluesabre, i want, please make micahg_ and mr_pouit sponsor it
[19:28] <Pjotr> By the way, I forgot to ask on Monday, but how about GDebi in the iso? Ideal for installing .debs. Much more lightweight than Software Center.
[19:29] <knome> it's not a replacement.
[19:29] <Pjotr> as extra
[19:29] <knome> then it's just extra load.
[19:30] <Pjotr> Small package...
[19:30] <bluesabre> Last time I checked, gdebi was not being maintained very well
[19:30] <Pjotr> used to be in Ubuntu for a long time, together with Synaptic and Install/Remove Software
[19:31] <knome> i must kick mvo for actually maintaining synaptic longer than he told he'd do
[19:31] <pleia2> I'd be more open to a proposal to include aptitude or synaptic
[19:31] <bluesabre> lol
[19:31] <bluesabre> synaptic just had a gtk3 release a few weeks agi
[19:31] <pleia2> aptitude is awesome for resolving apt getting all broken
[19:31] <bluesabre> cracked me up
[19:31] <Pjotr> GDebi eats very little system resources. Nifty tool for debs like Google Chrome
[19:31] <knome> yes... synaptic probably should be in at some point O:)
[19:31] <pleia2> not having it when apt wedges is :(
[19:32] <pleia2> (and once you have aptitude, synaptic isn't much more)
[19:35] <GridCube> i never understood aptitude
[19:35] <GridCube> :(
[19:35] <GridCube> i went from synaptic to apt-get 
[19:36] <bluesabre> ... to gone
[19:36] <pleia2> my fiance uses it religiously with the ncurses interface, I've only ever used it to unwedge apt or if I was looking for creative dependency resolution
[19:36] <pleia2> doh
[19:36] <genii-around> I'm stuck in my apt-get ways :-(
[19:36] <bluesabre> I think I just use apt-get unless I'm browsing the software-center for a game
[19:37] <pleia2> I just use apt-get
[19:39] <knome> apt-get is good
[19:48] <Pjotr> Gdebi consists out of two packages: Gdebi and Gdebi-core. Installer size of those two combined: 0.2 MB. Installed on disk: 1.4 MB. Not much...
[19:50] <knome> yes, it's light... but it's still extra.
[19:51] <bluesabre> 1-app, 1-purpose is usually a good way to go (or is it the other way around)?
[19:51] <bluesabre> or did I just make that up?
[19:51] <bluesabre> too lazy to google
[19:52] <Pjotr> bluesabre: you only have one knife in your house for all purposes?  :-)
[19:53] <bluesabre> I'm an american, the bread knife handles most of the things I need to cut
[19:53] <pleia2> it's general unix philosophy :)
[19:53] <bluesabre> or is that kentuckian?
[19:53] <bluesabre> I'll stop now, I'm going to offend everyone today
[19:54] <bluesabre> btw, terminal: cal 9 1752
[19:55] <pleia2> that's when we got our calendar sorted, now we have leap years :)
[19:56] <bluesabre> yup, pretty awesome
[19:56] <bluesabre> doing linux cert training
[19:57] <Pjotr> Have to go now. Bye all.  :-)
[19:57] <bluesabre> Have fun!
[21:50] <epifanio> hi All
[21:52] <epifanio> i'd like to try  ubuntu on my laptop (without dvd player) .. but for unfortunate reason (it is a mac with efi boot) the standard iso doesn't boot
[21:52] <epifanio> after some attemt .. i found a solution into the alternate iso
[21:53] <epifanio> i made a bootable usb using the alternate iso, and it boot just fine on my mac 
[21:53] <epifanio> .. the problem is that i need to "try" the distro as a live disk
[21:54] <epifanio> but the alternate iso doesn't provide this option
[21:54] <epifanio> .. i was thinking to rebuild the iso using chroot and adding in the new build the needed deb's to add the "live functionalities"
[21:55] <epifanio> can you please help me to understand which packages do i need in order to add the "live option" ?
[21:59] <GridCube> epifanio, please go to #xubuntu this is the -devel channel :)
[22:33] <knome> i suppose technically the question could belong here too, but since the answer is "use the desktop iso and file a bug if it doesn't work", i agree with GridCube..
[22:33] <knome> i need my laptop here