=== mmrazik is now known as mmrazik|lunch === mmrazik|lunch is now known as mmrazik === Quintasan_ is now known as Quintasan === Zic is now known as Guest38252 === yofel_ is now known as yofel === fego is now known as codemaniac === head_victim is now known as jared_ === Guest38252 is now known as Zic === doko_ is now known as doko === zequence_ is now known as zequence [16:02] hey [16:03] ogra_, hey [16:03] sorry I'm a bit late [16:03] did you guys start? [16:03] nope [16:03] i totally forgot about it [16:04] * ogra_ is knee deep in debugging the broken images ... [16:04] so thats the first thing i have to report [16:04] ogra_, let's start with that then [16:04] how is the debugging going? [16:04] all available images are currently broken :( [16:04] do you need help? what did you figure so far? [16:05] well [16:06] what i figured is that X doesnt start ... i can hack around it by adding break=top to the kernel cmdline ... then ...' [16:06] remounting the disk rw and making g-s-d unexecutable [16:06] so i suspect there are two distinct bugs [16:06] so it's a g-s-d issue? [16:07] one is surely g-s-d [16:07] in the new rotation code? [16:07] but the other seems to be filesystem related or mountall or so [16:07] should we drop the feature and see if that makes tomorrow's daily work? [16:07] not yet [16:08] i wont stop hitting it until i know whats going on ... probably g-s-d is just fallout of filesystem issues [16:08] ok [16:08] could also be mountall (seems /tmp isnt cleaned up) [16:08] desktop is having a sprint next week [16:08] I hope we have a working image monday [16:08] yeah, i'll have it working one way or the other for you on the weekend [16:08] thanks [16:08] or latest monday [16:09] let me know if I can help [16:09] is that a physical sprint (TZ) [16:09] yes, physical in London [16:09] going to see the new Canonical office ;-) [16:10] bah [16:10] envy ! [16:10] hehe [16:10] ok, on that note, what else happened this week? [16:10] so beyond the breakage ... [16:10] we got the rotation feature moved in g-s-d [16:10] g-s-d grep rotation code :P [16:10] and i dropped the stuff from the ubuntu=-defaults-nexus7 package [16:11] s/grep/grew/ [16:12] well, beyond that not much happened i think [16:12] * seb128 is looking at raring-changes and his blueprints' email folder [16:12] we have a dedicated builder now ... [16:12] upstart session job is getting there [16:12] for the images [16:12] yeah [16:12] so I hope we can jump on that soon [16:12] yup, that should save us another lot [16:12] I didn't have time to update the wiki for "how to contribute", still on my list for next week though [16:13] i cant currently provide any ram measurements or so ... [16:13] since my device is stuck in the installer :) [16:13] ok [16:14] so it was somewhat of a slow progress week, but that's ok, we had some good action in the previous ones, it can't always be at this level [16:14] some of us as sprinting with a focus on the next next week [16:14] I will try to do daily updates one way or another [16:14] great [16:14] e.g blog post of email to ubuntu-devel [16:14] or* [16:15] right, we didnt even announce today [16:15] oh, there was also some activity upstream on the "button get stucked" bug [16:15] but it seems that's not enough to fix the issue yet [16:15] yeah, didnt go forward [16:15] it's moving though, so with some luck we will get it fixed soon [16:16] but there were some test packages [16:16] yeah, lots better than for the recent weeks [16:16] oh [16:16] I almost forgot [16:16] Qt5 got uploaded and we managed to get most of it through source and binary NEW [16:17] it's in raring-proposed [16:17] qtbase failed to build on powerpc [16:17] so it will not move to raring yet [16:17] but that's getting close [16:17] yeah [16:17] which means the phone sdk will be easy to install in raring soon, without ppa ;-) [16:17] wohoo [16:19] well ... is anone else here who wants to speak up ? [16:19] I hope that the news of steam being available in the software-center doesn't ruin productivity around in the next weeks :p [16:19] haha [16:19] it surely will [16:19] :D [16:19] we should talk to valve if they could put something in that only allows you to play after you helped with nx7 work [16:19] should also raise our awareness [16:19] :) [16:20] doesnt look like we have much community coverage today [16:20] xnox, anything new and exciting about the installer (apart from the fact that it doesnt work) [16:21] * xnox shakes fist at ogra_ [16:21] heh [16:21] not much on nexus7 front. upstart-desktop session seems to be almost complete. [16:22] yeah, seb said so above [16:22] plars, are there regular test installs happening for the nexus7 ? [16:23] * ogra_ wonders why nobody noticed the current breakage [16:23] ogra_: not automated because we haven't been able to make the preseeding stuff work so far, but manual as time allows. I think psivaa was complaining about something on nexus7 today in fact? [16:24] ogra_: we do have some automated tests, but they update each day for now [16:24] well, it would be good to have a test around mid-week regulary [16:24] ogra_: why mid-week? is there something that happens early-mid week? [16:25] so we still have old images to compare with that possibly worked (which we dont now since the breakage dates back a week it seems) [16:25] and still some days to fix it before the weekend [16:25] plars, we only keep three images [16:25] and due to the fact that we dont build milestones there is no functional image at all now [16:25] ogra_: I'll see what we can set up, also mine is still out for repair but I hope to have it back "soon" [16:26] k [16:26] plars, do you know what's happening also about the daily measures for ram usage? [16:27] seb128: those are the automated jobs I mentioned, I have those going on desktop as well as nexus7, graphing should land for those in the dashboard sometime next week [16:27] seb128: eventstat wakeups per second too [16:27] plars, excellent! [16:27] seb128: those are both currently tested on an idle, freshly booted system at the moment. If there are some other workloads you think would be interesting, we can add them [16:27] looking forward having that [16:28] seb128: if you just want the raw data for now, I can point you at that [16:28] yes, didrocks had a document with some scenarios [16:28] plars, let's talk next week, I'm interested by not today (friday 5:30pm ;-) [16:28] seb128: understand [16:29] plars, but we should probably have some scenarios like "use the dash 100 times" [16:29] for anyone who might be, the jobs are at: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-amd64-install-idle-vm/ and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-armhf-upgrade-idle-nexus702/ [16:29] (forgive the missing ones in the first link, recently modified the job to make it run 3 times instead of 1 and had some things to fix) [16:31] ok [16:31] plars, thanks [16:31] anything else? [16:31] nope [16:32] so lets shut down then [16:33] right [16:33] have a good w.e everyone! [16:33] going once ... [16:33] twice ... [16:33] adjouorned [16:33] enjoy your weekends [16:33] ogra_, let me know if I can help debugging the installer issues [16:33] I'm just going to reboot [16:33] seb128, well, probably g-s-d stuff later [16:33] i'm still poking on the filesystem [16:33] my video driver is out of order [16:34] I can't restart unity, I get intel flush locking errors [16:34] ok [16:34] brb [16:34] bye === Tonio_ is now known as Tonio_aw === codemaniac is now known as fego === JanC_ is now known as JanC === chuck_ is now known as zul [18:03] meeting time? [18:04] bobweaver, I just got here myself [18:04] is there an agenda? [18:05] * bobweaver needs to ake coffee he was up all night last night hacking a new webbrowser for TV [18:05] * bobweaver will be back in 5 min [18:05] hiya guys [18:07] Doesn't look like there is much agenda [18:07] #startmeeting [18:07] Meeting started Fri Feb 15 18:07:30 2013 UTC. The chair is tgm4883. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology. [18:07] Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired [18:07] I don't have anything really [18:07] #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883 [18:07] Current chairs: CrestedNewt tgm4883 [18:08] I'll let CrestedNewt lead this meeting [18:08] OK, I had a Google hangout with bobweaver last sunday which was great [18:08] 'after' he had his coffee - so hopefully he will be back in a minute [18:09] 3 min [18:09] OK [18:09] #Topic arm port [18:10] we are ready and have a img [18:10] #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883 bobweaver [18:10] Current chairs: CrestedNewt bobweaver tgm4883 [18:10] #Topic arm port === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: arm port [18:10] thing is I am trying to get virtual arm set up [18:10] I got a letter from canonical saying that there going to get me some hardware to test on [18:10] (will ) [18:11] we will see how that works out [18:11] OK, Bobweaver, I have contacted ARM in the UK looking for a good match for you in the USA to get you a board. I have had no response as yet so I am planning on talking to them on Monday. [18:11] cool CrestedNewt [18:11] any more questions about arm? [18:12] #action CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA [18:12] ACTION: CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA [18:12] #action bobweaver needs to stay in touch with canonical [18:12] ACTION: bobweaver needs to stay in touch with canonical [18:12] #topic Qt5/qml2 === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Qt5/qml2 [18:13] so I am porting weverything over to qt5/qml2 [18:13] this is a big thing and is going to take me some time [18:13] good news about this is though I almost have all the tools that are needed for unity 2d to be running on qt5/qml2 [18:14] then on the 21 (if I get done by then) I will be porting it all to the Phone [18:14] * tgm4883 tries to not make a comment about duke nukem [18:14] #action keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 [18:14] ACTION: keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 [18:15] #action keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 [18:15] ACTION: keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 [18:15] Is the phone OS still due out the end of this month or has that date lapsed doe we know? [18:15] feb 21 [18:15] bobweaver, you're suppose to put your nick in there as well [18:16] woops [18:16] there is 3 of us lol [18:16] any more questions about qt5/qml2 ? [18:16] #action bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 [18:16] ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5 [18:17] #action bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 [18:17] ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5 [18:17] I have none [18:17] tgm4883, ? [18:17] I have no questions [18:17] #topic wayland === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: wayland [18:17] one can run wayland (if they have the hardware) and qt5 lets us do this [18:18] OK, apologies for being a bit backward here - what is wayland? [18:18] I will be pushing a example of this after porting of qt5 is done [18:18] !wayland [18:18] stupid bot [18:18] !X [18:18] The X Window System is the part of your system that's responsible for graphical output. To restart your X, type « sudo /etc/init.d/?dm restart » in a console - To fix screen resolution or other X problems: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Config/Resolution [18:18] * tgm4883 wonders why were worrying about wayland [18:19] because it is cool [18:19] and I like the idea [18:19] bobweaver, ah, so Ubuntu TV is going to be the new Duke Nukem Forever? [18:19] CrestedNewt, if wayland is a servre just like X [18:20] I've just looked it up :D [18:20] But that said I want 3 different ports [18:20] 1) wayland 2) X ok only 2 at the moment [18:21] tgm4883, it is not that I am going to target wayland it is more that it works so why not show it off :) [18:21] I don't see why it should matter, as long as the toolkit supports the underlying display server (which Qt does) [18:21] and (I dont know what Duke Nukem is [18:21] bobweaver: it's a game that's been in development for like 20 years [18:21] bobweaver, I would like to have a downloadable, supported ISO at some point [18:22] mhall119, it was released after 15 years of development [18:22] tgm4883: they released it? [18:22] when did that happen? [18:22] then make it what does that have to do with wayland or display server ? [18:22] bobweaver, mhall119 and the reason it was in development for 15 years, was because they'd get close to releasing it then see a new cool technology that was out that they had to use [18:22] mhall119, yes, it got pretty bad reviews [18:22] ahh I see [18:23] bobweaver: it's usually a reference made when software is in a constant state of "almost ready to release" and they goes back for more changes [18:23] #action tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking [18:23] ACTION: tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking [18:23] bobweaver, mhall119 the length of time something is in development is directly proportional to what the community expects from it [18:23] Basically what tgm4883 is saying is that we need to concentrate on getting an image out that works currently. Am I correct? [18:23] there is one image out there that works [18:23] so the longer it takes to make something, the more perfect it better be [18:23] the good news is that bobweaver will soon have all the Phone code available [18:24] I don't know of a single supported ISO for Ubuntu TV [18:24] Yea I don't see Ubuntu TV listed at http://releases.ubuntu.com/ [18:24] only on 12.04 but it is something. Or people can use 11.10 and the crazy old one [18:24] tgm4883, want to be incharge of that ? [18:24] tgm4883: it's not an official release so it won't be hosted there [18:24] #topic ISO === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: ISO [18:24] See [18:24] mhall119, why not [18:25] everything that I do gets roadblocked [18:25] tgm4883: technical and legal reasons, really [18:25] or "Duke Nukemed " [18:25] mhall119, Mythbuntu is listed there [18:25] isn't mythbuntu a supported flavor? [18:25] mhall119, define supported [18:25] it is [18:25] so lets just tell people to install that for now [18:26] and "recognised flavor" is the term [18:26] I could make a iso or see if orga will elp me [18:26] definition: what pleia2 says :) [18:26] mhall119, I mean, if our aim isn't to become a recognised flavor, then what is the point of this project? [18:26] tgm4883: the aim is to be fully integrated into Unity itself [18:26] +1 [18:26] then hire unity developers [18:27] I am sick and tired of all this talk [18:27] we're working on that [18:27] port to this No port to tha t [18:27] mhall119, I mean, at one point there were even paid developers for Ubuntu TV, which is far more than Mythbuntu has [18:27] bobweaver: I understand the frustration [18:27] All I want is a working TV and I have that [18:27] I dont care if it is part of Ubuntu [18:27] But it does say things about Ubuntu [18:27] tgm4883: Ubuntu TV wasn't every supposed to be a separate installation though, it was just supposed to be "Ubuntu" with a TV-friendly configuration of Unity [18:27] I am so confued [18:28] I get emails from canonical people telling me that qml2 is the future [18:28] then I hear that Nux is the future [18:28] mhall119, what you just said is far more information that was said to the public [18:28] tgm4883: it is? I thought we were clear on that from the get-go [18:28] if not, I apologize, we should have been [18:28] again lets see how the phone is tied in [18:29] mhall119, my understanding is that it was going to be preloaded on TV's [18:29] mhall119, which is one of the reasons I'm here, to prevent that from being the only option [18:29] the intent is to eventually have just one "Unity" codebase that can change between desktop, mobile and TV layouts [18:29] I'm getting a bit pessimistic about this project :/ [18:29] what ever it does not matter that I code 100's of hours [18:29] and port all this stuff [18:29] OK, I have come to the game late in the day... I need to pull together everything that I can so that we can have a 'route plan' to get this working AND to keep everyone happy. [18:29] all I care about is a working tv at my house [18:29] you all can use it if you like [18:30] This has all the markings of a Canonical project, without any of the canonical backing it seems [18:30] tgm4883: pre-loading on TVs was the distribution plan, since providing installers for TVs wasn't a very attractive option [18:30] Until canonical makes up there mind I am not doing anyuthing more for TV [18:30] mhall119, personally, IMO it was a bad plan [18:30] OK, bobweaver, send me the names of people I can meet face to face in London [18:30] #action make iso and [18:30] ACTION: make iso and [18:31] mhall119, should have targeted a arm chip that you could plug into an HDMI port [18:31] LOL [18:31] tgm4883: the target was any hardware that could run Ubuntu [18:31] which included a variety of ARM devices with HDMI out [18:31] mhall119, all that aside, it doesn't help that "canonical" says "unity unity unity", then bobweaver does all the work [18:32] and CANONICAL IS NOT SAYING UNITY UNITY UNTIY [18:32] tgm4883: I agree, and bobweaver knows I've been doing everything in my power to get more resources available [18:32] mhall119, I mean, I like unity, but at this point i'd rather ask bobweaver to work on mythfrontend since it doesn't change so much [18:32] or at least that is the emails that I get [18:32] bobweaver, when this project started, that is exactly what was being said [18:32] tgm4883: I do share your frustrations, I really do [18:32] I can get to the Canonical London offices easy enough. Who do I need to meet up with? [18:32] CrestedNewt: for what? [18:33] bobweaver, I know, because a few of us asked why we aren't using projects that are already existing [18:33] to get some backing or whatever you guys NEED from them [18:33] #aaction bobweaver introduce CrestedNewt to key people [18:33] #action bobweaver introduce CrestedNewt to key people [18:33] ACTION: bobweaver introduce CrestedNewt to key people [18:33] CrestedNewt: What you going to do when you get to the office? [18:33] mhall119, I just wish this wasn't a project that canonical was half into [18:34] I like how CrestedNewt is busness minded somethin g that I am not [18:34] either be in or get out [18:34] CrestedNewt: it wouldn't be someone in London [18:34] ok no more Unity fights please [18:34] tgm4883: we all wish that [18:34] If they want to use unity then that is up to them [18:34] bottom line ! [18:34] I need to talk to tgm4883, bobweave and mhall119 offline to pull together an agenda. If the problems are 'blockages' let me see if I can unblock these [18:34] * tgm4883 is unsure who CrestedNewt represents [18:35] the TEAM [18:35] #action bobweaver set up google hangout with CrestedNewt and tgm4883 and anyone else that wants to work on this team [18:35] ACTION: bobweaver set up google hangout with CrestedNewt and tgm4883 and anyone else that wants to work on this team [18:35] CrestedNewt: the main problem is resources, or rather the finite nature of them [18:35] CrestedNewt, bobweaver and I are community. mhall119 is canonical. I'm unsure which you are [18:35] Any more questions about ISO ? [18:35] !topic [18:35] Please read the channel topic whenever you enter, as it contains important information. To view it at any time after joining, simply type /topic [18:35] I am community [18:35] CrestedNewt, ok [18:35] I can help manually roll an ISO if need be, but that's about all the experience I have [18:36] well that did not work out like I liked [18:36] #topic === Topic unset by meetingology on #ubuntu-meeting [18:36] ERGHHH [18:36] sorry [18:36] Ok if no one else has questions about ISO lets move on [18:36] #topic remote === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: remote [18:37] I have made a qml2 remote that controls mythfront ends from other devices [18:37] so that remote can be phone or tablet [18:37] it uses mythtv services api [18:37] quesstions comments ? [18:38] I want to make a youtube vid for you on something that someone else uses [18:38] it won't be today but hopeully over the weekend [18:38] cool [18:38] tgm4883, is there anything in the remote that the services dont offerer that you think it should ? [18:38] ssh [18:38] ect [18:38] hmm [18:39] #action CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system [18:39] ACTION: CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system [18:39] I'd have to look at the services APi for the frontend [18:39] #action tgm4883 look at services for front end and find more cool stuf [18:39] ACTION: tgm4883 look at services for front end and find more cool stuf [18:40] any more questions about the remotes ? [18:40] I mean, I don't exactly know what we're using the mythfrontend for, but we'll need some sort of interface anyway for remotes [18:40] because this is not Ubuntu TV anymore [18:40] mhall119, can you say anything about what saviq was working on with remotes? [18:41] that is what people say [18:41] see that is the shit that I am talking about ^^^^ [18:41] #topic Name and keeping bob from ripping his hair out === meetingology changed the topic of #ubuntu-meeting to: Name and keeping bob from ripping his hair out [18:41] OK bobweaver, let's keep frustration low atm please. We will get there. [18:42] I am done dealing with do this no do that I am just going to do what I love [18:42] I am no longer part of the Ubuntu TV priject [18:42] tgm4883: sorry, I don't know anything about remote work [18:42] as they (canonical ) has all the people they need for this [18:43] we reallydon't [18:43] and they do not talk to me about remotes and stuff like that so I waste my time over and over again [18:43] OK, change of tack then.... how about a web front end built into the TV which can be controlled from any device? [18:43] If They do not like what I am doing then they can use the many people that are developing this in house [18:44] #action bobweaver make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray [18:44] ACTION: bobweaver make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray [18:44] that is up to canonical and not me [18:45] untill they make that choice and until they can make a choice on how they are going to do things I am out [18:45] * tgm4883 wonders where this meeting went off track [18:45] me too! [18:45] I am done developing things for hours to be told what I am doing isnot some "designers" Idea [18:46] sorry guys but this is huge [18:46] either this is part of Ubuntu TV or it is not [18:46] this needs to be talked about [18:46] bobweaver: I made clear from the outset that things had to follow the design spec in order to be accepted for inclusion [18:46] mhall119, who is the PM of Ubuntu TV [18:46] we as a community can not be working at this with no idea of what some "designer is going to do " [18:46] that's what the "product" was supposed to be [18:46] bobweaver - I think that this is destined to be integrated fully into Ubuntu [18:47] tgm4883: Will Cooke is the development manager [18:47] Ok so let me tell you all this [18:47] 1) ubuntu tv has been in unity 3d fro 2 cycles now [18:47] there isn't a separate "PM" necessarily, that I know of anywya [18:47] sence 11.10 [18:47] mhall119, nothing against will cooke, but I haven't seen him at any of these meetings. Indicating to me that what we are doing is pointless [18:47] +1 [18:47] tgm4883, I talk to will all the time [18:48] well not all the time [18:48] tgm4883: Will and his team were tasked with getting the multi-media bits of the Phone done [18:48] 1 or twice a week [18:48] mhall119, if he's the development manager, he should be managing the developers of Ubuntu TV at some point. AFAIK, that is bobweaver [18:48] which is why they haven't been actively engaged with the TV work [18:48] tgm4883: well, yes and no [18:48] So back to unity go ahead and open up dconf editor and use Unity 3d TV that is ubuntu TV [18:48] LOL [18:49] to a large extent that's my job, as a community manager, to work between Canonical and Community [18:49] Ubuntu TV is for now that and that is what it will stay until I get something in writing [18:49] Will is responsible for his direct reports and his official tasks from Canonical [18:49] mhall119, unless there are developers at canonical working on this, then IMO it's a community project [18:50] tgm4883: at the moment that is the case, yes [18:50] Will and jhodpp are awesome and willing to take and anwser emails [18:50] So again I am going to change all the wiki to tell people to use 11.10 or Ubuntu TV via Unity 3d [18:50] mhall119, then at some point, the community is going to get tired of Canonical being half in this and either take over the project or dump it [18:50] #action bobweaver change all the wiki stuff [18:50] ACTION: bobweaver change all the wiki stuff [18:50] OK.... Let us take a step backwards and let's get all our ducks in a row so to speak. [18:51] tgm4883: I would encourage the community to take the initiative on development, but to try and follow the provided design spec [18:51] mhall119 - could you send me the original remit please? [18:51] remit? [18:52] community does not want to develop in NUX [18:52] what was expected from this project, the framework it has to adhere to, etc etc [18:52]