[16:02] <seb128> hey
[16:03] <seb128> ogra_, hey
[16:03] <seb128> sorry I'm a bit late
[16:03] <seb128> did you guys start?
[16:03] <ogra_> nope
[16:03] <ogra_> i totally forgot about it
[16:04]  * ogra_ is knee deep in debugging the broken images ... 
[16:04] <ogra_> so thats the first thing i have to report
[16:04] <seb128> ogra_, let's start with that then
[16:04] <seb128> how is the debugging going?
[16:04] <ogra_> all available images are currently broken :(
[16:04] <seb128> do you need help? what did you figure so far?
[16:05] <ogra_> well
[16:06] <ogra_> what i figured is that X doesnt start ... i can hack around it by adding break=top to the kernel cmdline ... then ...'
[16:06] <ogra_> remounting the disk rw and making g-s-d unexecutable
[16:06] <ogra_> so i suspect there are two distinct bugs
[16:06] <seb128> so it's a g-s-d issue?
[16:07] <ogra_> one is surely g-s-d
[16:07] <seb128> in the new rotation code?
[16:07] <ogra_> but the other seems to be filesystem related or mountall or so
[16:07] <seb128> should we drop the feature and see if that makes tomorrow's daily work?
[16:07] <ogra_> not yet
[16:08] <ogra_> i wont stop hitting it until i know whats going on ... probably g-s-d is just fallout of filesystem issues
[16:08] <seb128> ok
[16:08] <ogra_> could also be mountall (seems /tmp isnt cleaned up)
[16:08] <seb128> desktop is having a sprint next week
[16:08] <seb128> I hope we have a working image monday
[16:08] <ogra_> yeah, i'll have it working one way or the other for you on the weekend
[16:08] <seb128> thanks
[16:08] <ogra_> or latest monday
[16:09] <seb128> let me know if I can help
[16:09] <ogra_> is that a physical sprint (TZ)
[16:09] <seb128> yes, physical in London
[16:09] <seb128> going to see the new Canonical office ;-)
[16:10] <ogra_> bah
[16:10] <ogra_> envy !
[16:10] <seb128> hehe
[16:10] <seb128> ok, on that note, what else happened this week?
[16:10] <ogra_> so beyond the breakage ...
[16:10] <seb128> we got the rotation feature moved in g-s-d
[16:10] <ogra_> g-s-d grep rotation code :P
[16:10] <ogra_> and i dropped the stuff from the ubuntu=-defaults-nexus7 package
[16:11] <ogra_> s/grep/grew/
[16:12] <ogra_> well, beyond that not much happened i think
[16:12]  * seb128 is looking at raring-changes and his blueprints' email folder
[16:12] <ogra_> we have a dedicated builder now ...
[16:12] <seb128> upstart session job is getting there
[16:12] <ogra_> for the images
[16:12] <ogra_> yeah
[16:12] <seb128> so I hope we can jump on that soon
[16:12] <ogra_> yup, that should save us another lot
[16:12] <seb128> I didn't have time to update the wiki for "how to contribute", still on my list for next week though
[16:13] <ogra_> i cant currently provide any ram measurements or so ...
[16:13] <ogra_> since my device is stuck in the installer :)
[16:13] <seb128> ok
[16:14] <seb128> so it was somewhat of a slow progress week, but that's ok, we had some good action in the previous ones, it can't always be at this level
[16:14] <seb128> some of us as sprinting with a focus on the next next week
[16:14] <seb128> I will try to do daily updates one way or another
[16:14] <ogra_> great
[16:14] <seb128> e.g blog post of email to ubuntu-devel
[16:14] <seb128> or*
[16:15] <ogra_> right, we didnt even announce today
[16:15] <seb128> oh, there was also some activity upstream on the "button get stucked" bug
[16:15] <seb128> but it seems that's not enough to fix the issue yet
[16:15] <ogra_> yeah, didnt go forward
[16:15] <seb128> it's moving though, so with some luck we will get it fixed soon
[16:16] <ogra_> but there were some test packages
[16:16] <ogra_> yeah, lots better than for the recent weeks
[16:16] <seb128> oh
[16:16] <seb128> I almost forgot
[16:16] <seb128> Qt5 got uploaded and we managed to get most of it through source and binary NEW
[16:17] <seb128> it's in raring-proposed
[16:17] <seb128> qtbase failed to build on powerpc
[16:17] <seb128> so it will not move to raring yet
[16:17] <seb128> but that's getting close
[16:17] <ogra_> yeah
[16:17] <seb128> which means the phone sdk will be easy to install in raring soon, without ppa ;-)
[16:17] <ogra_> wohoo
[16:19] <ogra_> well ... is anone else here who wants to speak up ?
[16:19] <seb128> I hope that the news of steam being available in the software-center doesn't ruin productivity around in the next weeks :p
[16:19] <ogra_> haha
[16:19] <ogra_> it surely will
[16:19] <vibhav> :D
[16:19] <ogra_> we should talk to valve if they could put something in that only allows you to play after you helped with nx7 work
[16:19] <ogra_> should also raise our awareness
[16:19] <ogra_> :)
[16:20] <ogra_> doesnt look like we have much community coverage today
[16:20] <ogra_> xnox, anything new and exciting about the installer (apart from the fact that it doesnt work)
[16:21]  * xnox shakes fist at ogra_ 
[16:21] <ogra_> heh
[16:21] <xnox> not much on nexus7 front. upstart-desktop session seems to be almost complete.
[16:22] <ogra_> yeah, seb said so above
[16:22] <ogra_> plars, are there regular test installs happening for the nexus7 ?
[16:23]  * ogra_ wonders why nobody noticed the current breakage
[16:23] <plars> ogra_: not automated because we haven't been able to make the preseeding stuff work so far, but manual as time allows. I think psivaa was complaining about something on nexus7 today in fact?
[16:24] <plars> ogra_: we do have some automated tests, but they update each day for now
[16:24] <ogra_> well, it would be good to have a test around mid-week regulary
[16:24] <plars> ogra_: why mid-week? is there something that happens early-mid week?
[16:25] <ogra_> so we still have old images to compare with that possibly worked (which we dont now since the breakage dates back a  week it seems)
[16:25] <ogra_> and still some days to fix it before the weekend
[16:25] <ogra_> plars, we only keep three images
[16:25] <ogra_> and due to the fact that we dont build milestones there is no functional image at all now
[16:25] <plars> ogra_: I'll see what we can set up, also mine is still out for repair but I hope to have it back "soon"
[16:26] <ogra_> k
[16:26] <seb128> plars, do you know what's happening also about the daily measures for ram usage?
[16:27] <plars> seb128: those are the automated jobs I mentioned, I have those going on desktop as well as nexus7, graphing should land for those in the dashboard sometime next week
[16:27] <plars> seb128: eventstat wakeups per second too
[16:27] <seb128> plars, excellent!
[16:27] <plars> seb128: those are both currently tested on an idle, freshly booted system at the moment. If there are some other workloads you think would be interesting, we can add them
[16:27] <seb128> looking forward having that
[16:28] <plars> seb128: if you just want the raw data for now, I can point you at that
[16:28] <seb128> yes, didrocks had a document with some scenarios
[16:28] <seb128> plars, let's talk next week, I'm interested by not today (friday 5:30pm ;-)
[16:28] <plars> seb128: understand
[16:29] <seb128> plars, but we should probably have some scenarios like "use the dash 100 times"
[16:29] <plars> for anyone who might be, the jobs are at: https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-amd64-install-idle-vm/ and https://jenkins.qa.ubuntu.com/job/smem-raring-desktop-armhf-upgrade-idle-nexus702/
[16:29] <plars> (forgive the missing ones in the first link, recently modified the job to make it run 3 times instead of 1 and had some things to fix)
[16:31] <seb128> ok
[16:31] <seb128> plars, thanks
[16:31] <seb128> anything else?
[16:31] <ogra_> nope
[16:32] <ogra_> so lets shut down then
[16:33] <seb128> right
[16:33] <seb128> have a good w.e everyone!
[16:33] <ogra_> going once ...
[16:33] <ogra_> twice ...
[16:33] <ogra_> adjouorned
[16:33] <ogra_> enjoy your weekends
[16:33] <seb128> ogra_, let me know if I can help debugging the installer issues
[16:33] <seb128> I'm just going to reboot
[16:33] <ogra_> seb128, well, probably g-s-d stuff later
[16:33] <ogra_> i'm still poking on the filesystem
[16:33] <seb128> my video driver is out of order
[16:34] <seb128> I can't restart unity, I get intel flush locking errors
[16:34] <seb128> ok
[16:34] <seb128> brb
[16:34] <ogra_> bye
[18:03] <tgm4883> meeting time?
[18:04] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I just got here myself
[18:04] <tgm4883> is there an agenda?
[18:05]  * bobweaver needs to  ake coffee he was up all night last night hacking a new webbrowser for TV 
[18:05]  * bobweaver will be back in 5 min 
[18:05] <CrestedNewt> hiya guys
[18:07] <tgm4883> Doesn't look like there is much agenda
[18:07] <tgm4883> #startmeeting
[18:07] <meetingology> Meeting started Fri Feb 15 18:07:30 2013 UTC.  The chair is tgm4883. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/meetingology.
[18:07] <meetingology> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #endvote #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #progress #rejected #replay #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #subtopic #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk #vote #voters #votesrequired
[18:07] <CrestedNewt> I don't have anything really
[18:07] <tgm4883> #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883
[18:07] <meetingology> Current chairs: CrestedNewt tgm4883
[18:08] <tgm4883> I'll let CrestedNewt lead this meeting
[18:08] <CrestedNewt> OK, I had a Google hangout with bobweaver last sunday which was great
[18:08] <CrestedNewt> 'after' he had his coffee - so hopefully he will be back in a minute
[18:09] <bobweaver> 3 min
[18:09] <bobweaver> OK
[18:09] <bobweaver> #Topic arm port
[18:10] <bobweaver> we are ready and have a img
[18:10] <tgm4883> #chair CrestedNewt tgm4883 bobweaver
[18:10] <meetingology> Current chairs: CrestedNewt bobweaver tgm4883
[18:10] <tgm4883> #Topic arm port
[18:10] <bobweaver> thing is I am trying to get virtual arm set up
[18:10] <bobweaver> I got a letter from canonical saying that there going to get me some hardware to test on
[18:10] <bobweaver> (will )
[18:11] <bobweaver> we will see how that works out
[18:11] <CrestedNewt> OK, Bobweaver, I have contacted ARM in the UK looking for a good match for you in the USA to get you a board. I have had no response as yet so I am planning on talking to them on Monday.
[18:11] <bobweaver> cool CrestedNewt
[18:11] <bobweaver> any more questions about arm?
[18:12] <CrestedNewt> #action CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA
[18:12] <meetingology> ACTION: CrestedNewt - chase up ARM re supplier of ARM boards in USA
[18:12] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  needs to stay in touch with canonical
[18:12] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  needs to stay in touch with canonical
[18:12] <bobweaver> #topic Qt5/qml2
[18:13] <bobweaver> so I am porting weverything over to qt5/qml2
[18:13] <bobweaver> this is a big thing and is going to take me some time
[18:13] <bobweaver> good news about this is though I almost have all the tools that are needed for unity 2d to be running on qt5/qml2
[18:14] <bobweaver> then on the 21 (if I get done by then) I will be porting it all to the Phone
[18:14]  * tgm4883 tries to not make a comment about duke nukem
[18:14] <bobweaver> #action  keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:14] <meetingology> ACTION: keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:15] <bobweaver> #action keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:15] <meetingology> ACTION: keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:15] <CrestedNewt> Is the phone OS still due out the end of this month or has that date lapsed doe we know?
[18:15] <bobweaver> feb 21
[18:15] <tgm4883> bobweaver, you're suppose to put your nick in there as well
[18:16] <bobweaver> woops
[18:16] <bobweaver> there is 3 of us lol
[18:16] <bobweaver> any more questions about qt5/qml2 ?
[18:16] <CrestedNewt> #action  bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:16] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting dconf-qt to qt5
[18:17] <CrestedNewt> #action bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:17] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver keep on working on porting libbamf and launcher lib to qt5
[18:17] <CrestedNewt> I have none
[18:17] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  ?
[18:17] <tgm4883> I have no questions
[18:17] <bobweaver> #topic wayland
[18:17] <bobweaver> one can run wayland (if they have the hardware) and qt5 lets us do this
[18:18] <CrestedNewt> OK, apologies for being a bit backward here - what is wayland?
[18:18] <bobweaver> I will be pushing a example of this after porting of qt5 is done
[18:18] <bobweaver> !wayland
[18:18] <bobweaver> stupid bot
[18:18] <bobweaver> !X
[18:18]  * tgm4883 wonders why were worrying about wayland
[18:19] <bobweaver> because it is cool
[18:19] <bobweaver> and I like the idea
[18:19] <tgm4883> bobweaver, ah, so Ubuntu TV is going to be the new Duke Nukem Forever?
[18:19] <bobweaver> CrestedNewt,  if wayland is a  servre just like X
[18:20] <CrestedNewt> I've just looked it up :D
[18:20] <bobweaver> But that said I want 3 different ports
[18:20] <bobweaver> 1)  wayland 2) X    ok only 2 at the moment
[18:21] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  it is not that I am going to target wayland it is more that it works so why not show it off :)
[18:21] <mhall119> I don't see why it should matter, as long as the toolkit supports the underlying display server (which Qt does)
[18:21] <bobweaver> and (I dont know what Duke Nukem is
[18:21] <mhall119> bobweaver: it's a game that's been in development for like 20 years
[18:21] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I would like to have a downloadable, supported ISO at some point
[18:22] <tgm4883> mhall119, it was released after 15 years of development
[18:22] <mhall119> tgm4883: they released it?
[18:22] <mhall119> when did that happen?
[18:22] <bobweaver> then make it what does that have to do with wayland or display server ?
[18:22] <tgm4883> bobweaver, mhall119 and the reason it was in development for 15 years, was because they'd get close to releasing it then see a new cool technology that was out that they had to use
[18:22] <tgm4883> mhall119, yes, it got pretty bad reviews
[18:22] <bobweaver> ahh I see
[18:23] <mhall119> bobweaver: it's usually a reference made when software is in a constant state of "almost ready to release" and they goes back for more changes
[18:23] <bobweaver> #action tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking
[18:23] <meetingology> ACTION: tell people that make thoughts to stop thinking
[18:23] <tgm4883> bobweaver, mhall119 the length of time something is in development is directly proportional to what the community expects from it
[18:23] <CrestedNewt> Basically what tgm4883 is saying is that we need to concentrate on getting an image out that works currently. Am I correct?
[18:23] <bobweaver> there is one image out there that works
[18:23] <tgm4883> so the longer it takes to make something, the more perfect it better be
[18:23] <mhall119> the good news is that bobweaver will soon have all the Phone code available
[18:24] <tgm4883> I don't know of a single supported ISO for Ubuntu TV
[18:24] <tgm4883> Yea I don't see Ubuntu TV listed at http://releases.ubuntu.com/
[18:24] <bobweaver> only on 12.04 but it is something. Or people can use 11.10 and the crazy old one
[18:24] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  want to be incharge of that  ?
[18:24] <mhall119> tgm4883: it's not an official release so it won't be hosted there
[18:24] <bobweaver> #topic ISO
[18:24] <bobweaver> See
[18:24] <tgm4883> mhall119, why not
[18:25] <bobweaver> everything that I do gets roadblocked
[18:25] <mhall119> tgm4883: technical and legal reasons, really
[18:25] <bobweaver> or "Duke Nukemed "
[18:25] <tgm4883> mhall119, Mythbuntu is listed there
[18:25] <mhall119> isn't mythbuntu a supported flavor?
[18:25] <tgm4883> mhall119, define supported
[18:25] <pleia2> it is
[18:25] <bobweaver> so lets just tell people to install that for now
[18:26] <pleia2> and "recognised flavor" is the term
[18:26] <bobweaver> I could make a iso or see if orga will elp me
[18:26] <mhall119> definition: what pleia2 says :)
[18:26] <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, if our aim isn't to become a recognised flavor, then what is the point of this project?
[18:26] <mhall119> tgm4883: the aim is to be fully integrated into Unity itself
[18:26] <bobweaver> +1
[18:26] <bobweaver> then hire unity developers
[18:27] <bobweaver> I am sick and tired of all this talk
[18:27] <mhall119> we're working on that
[18:27] <bobweaver> port to this No port to tha t
[18:27] <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, at one point there were even paid developers for Ubuntu TV, which is far more than Mythbuntu has
[18:27] <mhall119> bobweaver: I understand the frustration
[18:27] <bobweaver> All I want is a working TV and I have that
[18:27] <bobweaver> I dont care if it is part of Ubuntu
[18:27] <bobweaver> But it does say things about Ubuntu
[18:27] <mhall119> tgm4883: Ubuntu TV wasn't every supposed to be a separate installation though, it was just supposed to be "Ubuntu" with a TV-friendly configuration of Unity
[18:27] <bobweaver> I am so confued
[18:28] <bobweaver> I get emails from canonical people telling me that qml2 is the future
[18:28] <bobweaver> then I hear that Nux is the future
[18:28] <tgm4883> mhall119, what you just said is far more information that was said to the public
[18:28] <mhall119> tgm4883: it is?  I thought we were clear on that from the get-go
[18:28] <mhall119> if not, I apologize, we should have been
[18:28] <bobweaver> again lets see how the phone is tied in
[18:29] <tgm4883> mhall119, my understanding is that it was going to be preloaded on TV's
[18:29] <tgm4883> mhall119, which is one of the reasons I'm here, to prevent that from being the only option
[18:29] <mhall119> the intent is to eventually have just one "Unity" codebase that can change between desktop, mobile and TV layouts
[18:29] <tgm4883> I'm getting a bit pessimistic about this project :/
[18:29] <bobweaver> what ever it does not matter that I code 100's of hours
[18:29] <bobweaver> and port all this stuff
[18:29] <CrestedNewt> OK, I have come to the game late in the day... I need to pull together everything that I can so that we can have a 'route plan' to get this working AND to keep everyone happy.
[18:29] <bobweaver> all I care about is a working tv at my house
[18:29] <bobweaver> you all can use it if you like
[18:30] <tgm4883> This has all the markings of a Canonical project, without any of the canonical backing it seems
[18:30] <mhall119> tgm4883: pre-loading on TVs was the distribution plan, since providing installers for TVs wasn't a very attractive option
[18:30] <bobweaver> Until canonical makes up there mind I am not doing anyuthing more for TV
[18:30] <tgm4883> mhall119, personally, IMO it was a bad plan
[18:30] <CrestedNewt> OK, bobweaver, send me the names of people I can meet face to face in London
[18:30] <bobweaver> #action make iso and
[18:30] <meetingology> ACTION: make iso and
[18:31] <tgm4883> mhall119, should have targeted a arm chip that you could plug into an HDMI port
[18:31] <bobweaver> LOL
[18:31] <mhall119> tgm4883: the target was any hardware that could run Ubuntu
[18:31] <mhall119> which included a variety of ARM devices with HDMI out
[18:31] <tgm4883> mhall119, all that aside, it doesn't help that "canonical" says "unity unity unity", then bobweaver does all the work
[18:32] <bobweaver> and CANONICAL IS NOT SAYING UNITY UNITY UNTIY
[18:32] <mhall119> tgm4883: I agree, and bobweaver knows I've been doing everything in my power to get more resources available
[18:32] <tgm4883> mhall119, I mean, I like unity, but at this point i'd rather ask bobweaver to work on mythfrontend since it doesn't change so much
[18:32] <bobweaver> or at least that is the emails that I get
[18:32] <tgm4883> bobweaver, when this project started, that is exactly what was being said
[18:32] <mhall119> tgm4883: I do share your frustrations, I really do
[18:32] <CrestedNewt> I can get to the Canonical London offices easy enough. Who do I need to meet up with?
[18:32] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: for what?
[18:33] <tgm4883> bobweaver, I know, because a few of us asked why we aren't using projects that are already existing
[18:33] <CrestedNewt> to get some backing or whatever you guys NEED from them
[18:33] <bobweaver> #aaction bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
[18:33] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
[18:33] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  introduce CrestedNewt  to key people
[18:33] <IdleOne> CrestedNewt: What you going to do when you get to the office?
[18:33] <tgm4883> mhall119, I just wish this wasn't a project that canonical was half into
[18:34] <bobweaver> I like how CrestedNewt  is busness minded somethin g that I am not
[18:34] <tgm4883> either be in or get out
[18:34] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: it wouldn't be someone in London
[18:34] <bobweaver> ok no more Unity fights please
[18:34] <mhall119> tgm4883: we all wish that
[18:34] <bobweaver> If they want to use unity then that is up to them
[18:34] <bobweaver> bottom line !
[18:34] <CrestedNewt> I need to talk to tgm4883, bobweave and mhall119 offline to pull together an agenda. If the problems are 'blockages' let me see if I can unblock these
[18:34]  * tgm4883 is unsure who CrestedNewt represents
[18:35] <CrestedNewt> the TEAM
[18:35] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  set up google hangout with CrestedNewt  and tgm4883  and anyone else that wants to work on this team
[18:35] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  set up google hangout with CrestedNewt  and tgm4883  and anyone else that wants to work on this team
[18:35] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: the main problem is resources, or rather the finite nature of them
[18:35] <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, bobweaver and I are community. mhall119 is canonical. I'm unsure which you are
[18:35] <bobweaver> Any more questions about ISO ?
[18:35] <bobweaver> !topic
[18:35] <CrestedNewt> I am community
[18:35] <tgm4883> CrestedNewt, ok
[18:35] <mhall119> I can help manually roll an ISO if need be, but that's about all the experience I have
[18:36] <bobweaver> well that did not work out like I liked
[18:36] <bobweaver> #topic
[18:36] <bobweaver> ERGHHH
[18:36] <bobweaver> sorry
[18:36] <bobweaver> Ok if no one else has questions about ISO lets move on
[18:36] <bobweaver> #topic remote
[18:37] <bobweaver> I have made a qml2 remote that controls mythfront ends from other devices
[18:37] <bobweaver> so that remote can be phone or tablet
[18:37] <bobweaver> it uses mythtv services api
[18:37] <bobweaver> quesstions comments ?
[18:38] <CrestedNewt> I want to make a youtube vid for you on something that someone else uses
[18:38] <CrestedNewt> it won't be today but hopeully over the weekend
[18:38] <bobweaver> cool
[18:38] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  is there anything in the remote that the services dont offerer that you think it should ?
[18:38] <bobweaver> ssh
[18:38] <bobweaver> ect
[18:38] <tgm4883> hmm
[18:39] <CrestedNewt> #action CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system
[18:39] <meetingology> ACTION: CrestedNewt - make youtube video of 'other' PVR system
[18:39] <tgm4883> I'd have to look at the services APi for the frontend
[18:39] <bobweaver> #action tgm4883  look at services for front end and find more cool stuf
[18:39] <meetingology> ACTION: tgm4883  look at services for front end and find more cool stuf
[18:40] <bobweaver> any more questions about the remotes ?
[18:40] <tgm4883> I mean, I don't exactly know what we're using the mythfrontend for, but we'll need some sort of interface anyway for remotes
[18:40] <bobweaver>  because this is not Ubuntu TV anymore
[18:40] <tgm4883> mhall119, can you say anything about what saviq was working on with remotes?
[18:41] <bobweaver> that is what people say
[18:41] <bobweaver> see that is the shit that I am talking about ^^^^
[18:41] <bobweaver> #topic  Name and keeping bob from ripping his hair out
[18:41] <CrestedNewt> OK bobweaver, let's keep frustration low atm please. We will get there.
[18:42] <bobweaver> I am done dealing with do this no do that I am just going to do what I love
[18:42] <bobweaver> I am no longer part of the Ubuntu TV priject
[18:42] <mhall119> tgm4883: sorry, I don't know anything about remote work
[18:42] <bobweaver> as they (canonical ) has all the people they need for this
[18:43] <mhall119> we reallydon't
[18:43] <bobweaver> and they do not talk to me about remotes and stuff like that so I waste my time over and over again
[18:43] <CrestedNewt> OK, change of tack then.... how about a web front end built into the TV which can be controlled from any device?
[18:43] <bobweaver> If They do not like what I am doing then they can use the many people that are developing this in house
[18:44] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver  make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray
[18:44] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver  make a choice if he is part of this team with canonical or if he is just getting run a-stray
[18:44] <bobweaver> that is up to canonical and not me
[18:45] <bobweaver> untill they make that choice and until they can make a choice on how they are going to do things I am out
[18:45]  * tgm4883 wonders where this meeting went off track
[18:45] <CrestedNewt> me too!
[18:45] <bobweaver> I am done developing things for hours to be told what I am doing isnot some "designers" Idea
[18:46] <bobweaver> sorry guys but this is huge
[18:46] <bobweaver> either this is part of Ubuntu TV or it is not
[18:46] <bobweaver> this needs to be talked about
[18:46] <mhall119> bobweaver: I made clear from the outset that things had to follow the design spec in order to be accepted for inclusion
[18:46] <tgm4883> mhall119, who is the PM of Ubuntu TV
[18:46] <bobweaver> we as a community can not be working at this with no idea of what some "designer is going to do "
[18:46] <mhall119> that's what the "product" was supposed to be
[18:46] <CrestedNewt> bobweaver - I think that this is destined to be integrated fully into Ubuntu
[18:47] <mhall119> tgm4883: Will Cooke is the development manager
[18:47] <bobweaver> Ok so let me tell you all this
[18:47] <bobweaver> 1) ubuntu tv has been in unity 3d fro 2 cycles now
[18:47] <mhall119> there isn't a separate "PM" necessarily, that I know of anywya
[18:47] <bobweaver> sence 11.10
[18:47] <tgm4883> mhall119, nothing against will cooke, but I haven't seen him at any of these meetings. Indicating to me that what we are doing is pointless
[18:47] <CrestedNewt> +1
[18:47] <bobweaver> tgm4883,  I talk to will all the time
[18:48] <bobweaver> well not all the time
[18:48] <mhall119> tgm4883: Will and his team were tasked with getting the multi-media bits of the Phone done
[18:48] <bobweaver> 1 or twice a week
[18:48] <tgm4883> mhall119, if he's the development manager, he should be managing the developers of Ubuntu TV at some point. AFAIK, that is bobweaver
[18:48] <mhall119> which is why they haven't been actively engaged with the TV work
[18:48] <mhall119> tgm4883: well, yes and no
[18:48] <bobweaver> So back to unity go ahead and open up dconf editor and use Unity 3d TV that is ubuntu TV
[18:48] <bobweaver> LOL
[18:49] <mhall119> to a large extent that's my job, as a community manager, to work between Canonical and Community
[18:49] <bobweaver> Ubuntu TV is for now that and that is what it will stay until I get something in writing
[18:49] <mhall119> Will is responsible for his direct reports and his official tasks from Canonical
[18:49] <tgm4883> mhall119, unless there are developers at canonical working on this, then IMO it's a community project
[18:50] <mhall119> tgm4883: at the moment that is the case, yes
[18:50] <bobweaver> Will and jhodpp are awesome and willing to take and anwser emails
[18:50] <bobweaver> So again I am going to change all the wiki to tell people to use 11.10 or Ubuntu TV via Unity 3d
[18:50] <tgm4883> mhall119, then at some point, the community is going to get tired of Canonical being half in this and either take over the project or dump it
[18:50] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver change all the wiki stuff
[18:50] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver change all the wiki stuff
[18:50] <CrestedNewt> OK.... Let us take a step backwards and let's get all our ducks in a row so to speak.
[18:51] <mhall119> tgm4883: I would encourage the community to take the initiative on development, but to try and follow the provided design spec
[18:51] <CrestedNewt> mhall119 - could you send me the original remit please?
[18:51] <mhall119> remit?
[18:52] <bobweaver> community does not want to develop in NUX
[18:52] <CrestedNewt> what was expected from this project, the framework it has to adhere to, etc etc
[18:52] <tgm4883> mhall119, basically, from a comunity POV, canonical said "here is the design spec, make it happen"
[18:52] <mhall119> bobweaver: undestood
[18:52] <bobweaver> community does not want to do alot of things that "Designers" are talking about
[18:52] <mhall119> bobweaver: programmers rarely do ;)
[18:52] <bobweaver> community does not want to be told one thing then 2 weeks later something else
[18:52] <tgm4883> mhall119, my understanding is that things keep changing too much
[18:53] <mhall119> bobweaver: if it's any comfort, community are not the only ones suffering that
[18:53] <bobweaver> community does not want to be told that qml2 is the future then they come to meetings and hear different
[18:53] <mhall119> bobweaver: there are many voices with many opinions in Canonical
[18:53] <bobweaver> #action bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open
[18:53] <meetingology> ACTION: bobweaver get a hold of will and Jim and saviq and see if they will do a hang out to get this out in the open
[18:54] <mhall119> bobweaver: the most official answer I have for you on that is that Qt5/QML2 is the future for our app development SDK
[18:54] <bobweaver> mhall119,  you know that this is killing the TV today right ?
[18:54] <mhall119> but that doesn't necessarily many anything for the future of Unity's foundations
[18:54] <CrestedNewt> mhall119, but if bobweaver & tgm4883 have been working on something, according to original remit, and the goal posts change.... there is a problem that needs to be sorted
[18:55] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: I will try and find the design spec that was provided
[18:55] <CrestedNewt> mhall119, thanks :D
[18:55] <mhall119> CrestedNewt: but for the technology, the direction was to use Unity3d and Nux
[18:55] <bobweaver> oh designers
[18:55] <bobweaver> :)
[18:55] <mhall119> which has not been easy
[18:55] <mhall119> I understand
[18:56] <bobweaver> #action get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash
[18:56] <meetingology> ACTION: get mark to talk to me about future of TV and ho it is going to run on Phone also talk about the future of the dash
[18:56] <bobweaver> er I forgot my name again sorry
[18:56] <bobweaver> mhall119,  then find a community that wants to do that
[18:57] <mhall119> bobweaver: I've tried :)
[18:57] <bobweaver> as I have said like a broken record TV mode is on unity 3d
[18:57] <bobweaver> tell people to use it
[18:57] <bobweaver> see what they thing :D
[18:57] <mhall119> TV mode is available on Unity 3d?
[18:57] <bobweaver> YEAH @ cycles NOW
[18:57] <bobweaver> 2 *
[18:58] <mhall119> does it look different from desktop Unity?
[18:58] <bobweaver> try it
[18:58] <mhall119> how?
[18:58] <bobweaver> change the dconf formfactor
[18:58] <CrestedNewt> ok ladies and gents, time is short.I think that certain frustrations have come to light today, which although not great, means that we have a reference point with which to work from and move forwards.
[18:58] <mhall119> my understanding was that your work was all being done on Unity 2d
[18:58] <bobweaver> no it has not mhall119
[18:59] <bobweaver> I have been told 4 different tthings at 4 different points
[18:59] <bobweaver> mhall119,  let me try to explain something that happened at UDS
[19:00] <CrestedNewt> we are about to over-run
[19:00] <CrestedNewt> lets take this to the TV channel
[19:00] <CrestedNewt> agreed?
[19:00] <bobweaver> so I went to will and Jim and said hey I know that you all can not talk to me about things that are happening in the uture but if you see soething just email me saying "that is not a good idea "
[19:00] <mhall119> bobweaver: we can talk in #ubuntu-tv so as not to take up this channel
[19:00] <bobweaver> agreeded
[19:00] <bobweaver> #endmeeting
[19:00] <meetingology> Meeting ended Fri Feb 15 19:00:35 2013 UTC.
[19:00] <meetingology> Minutes (wiki):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-15-18.07.moin.txt
[19:00] <meetingology> Minutes (html):        http://ubottu.com/meetingology/logs/ubuntu-meeting/2013/ubuntu-meeting.2013-02-15-18.07.html