[00:01] <Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: Heh, that was the game that shipped on the htc dream
[00:01] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Not bad, but laggy
[00:01] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and the sound would vibrate its motion detection
[00:02] <dmd> they shipped a lagy default app?
[00:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Meh, android always felt laggy to me
[00:03] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Never was too hot on it using java, bloated piece of rubbish
[01:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> What do you think for an isometric type on a phone?
[01:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Staggered, or diamond?
[01:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> http://static.allegro.cc/image/cache/e/1/e1569f76e9e145a6033e264bbc1e4cb7.png
[01:12] <dmd> isn't that more the coordantes system?
[01:12] <dmd> i'd use staggered since it looks more grid like
[01:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: I am thinking particularly for making the most out of phone realstate
[01:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I assumed staggered
[01:14] <dmd> then it shouldn't make a difference, you can just have the eccess off screen
[01:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Well of course
[01:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> speaking of which, I heard unity is being ported to linux
[01:15] <dmd> yeah but not the dev tools
[01:15] <dmd> maybe someday
[01:15] <Akiva-Thinkpad> oh, so you can not develope with it?
[01:15] <Akiva-Thinkpad> bah
[01:15] <Akiva-Thinkpad> shucks
[01:16] <dmd> you need a mac or windows
[01:17] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Bah, I have xp installed on this machine. I love how today, I don't have to convince myself that linux is better to use. I simply can't stand windows anymore
[01:18] <dmd> I'm doing a internship at microsoft in 2 months. I'll be using win8 and supporting vista-8, that will be interesting
[01:19] <dmd> its clear from my resume I am open source, yet they still took me
[01:19] <dmd> poor microsoft
[01:20] <j-b> dmd: what are you working on? Are you working at Opentech?
[01:20] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: I watched a google tech talk with the opensource guy at microsoft
[01:21] <dmd> I'm in sustained engineering, the team maintains exisitng versions of windows
[01:21] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: It was weird, and he felt weird about it, but to his credit, he has tried to move the company in the right direction.
[01:21] <dmd> Akiva-Thinkpad: do you know the link? That would be interesting
[01:21] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: let me try google. Its pretty old by now
[01:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> probably 2008
[01:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> or maybe it was an open source conference...
[01:23] <comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: I was just catching up on the messages for today, and if you're starting a project to learn I'm looking for one to help on
[01:23] <comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: I know very little QML though
[01:24] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Well this is a project that I am doing to help me learn it as well.
[01:24] <comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: nice, do you use github?
[01:24] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: If you like my concept though, maybe you'll have as much fun as I am having. No, just launchpad. I'll throw myself on that tonight though
[01:26] <comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: Ah, well I'm working on something right now to learn how to wrap c++ into QML objects, but once you have things set up and an idea let me know. I'd love to work on a project to learn this stuff more. Best way to learn
[01:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> https://launchpad.net/~akiva
[01:27] <comjf> I don't know how launchpad works haha, new to ubuntu, but I have one I think and will figure it out
[01:27] <comjf> can you add someone?
[01:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: No doubt. In short, I could describe my idea as a cross between world of tanks, and front mission 1. With historical models to rely on, the content is already written, and with isometric, it should be a cinche to develope.
[01:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Arch guy?
[01:29] <comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: arch yeah, how did you know haha
[01:29] <dmd> man archies are taking over
[01:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> That is all linux is now. Pragmatic folks use ubuntu, Enthuthiast geeks use arch, JPEG lovers use Fedora, and the rest tend to be mmmm
[01:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> well specialized.
[01:30] <dmd> fair
[01:30] <comjf> dmd: I was ubuntu but left last release with this bug that no one cared about haha: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/compiz/+bug/1002641
[01:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> like that bitcoin distro
[01:31] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Ah, yah
[01:31] <Akiva-Thinkpad> That would make one leave ~
[01:31] <comjf> I spend about a month trying to get dual screens to work, and couldn't
[01:31] <dmd> yeah but even gnome fallback was not the same
[01:31] <comjf> I feel that's more then a low priority, but it must be something specific to mysetup or hardware
[01:31] <dmd> I had to move on, unity has gotten nice
[01:32] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Yes, unity GROWS on you.
[01:32] <chriadam> comjf: to expose C++ functionality to QML objects, simply expose the functionality via QObject Q_PROPERTYs and Q_INVOKABLE functions.  See http://doc-snapshot.qt-project.org/qt5-stable/qtqml/qtqml-cppintegration-topic.html for more information.
[01:32] <chriadam> comjf: dual screens?  Use disper.
[01:32] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I no longer resent my useless super button
[01:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and for that matter, my capslock neither. Colemak has liberated me!
[01:33] <comjf> chriadam: thanks, I need to figure it out, just started playing with QML yesterday haha. Trying to get my c++ up to snuff first
[01:33] <dmd> multiple windows of the same app open is still painful though
[01:33] <comjf> chriadam: I actually haven't tried dual monitors on 12.10 yet, as this is my laptop not primary machine
[01:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> that is one thing I have to say that linux does better than anyone else, is, it lets me set my keyboard layout without a headache.
[01:34] <dmd> my desktop is multimon 12.10
[01:34] <dmd> no complaints
[01:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: That is good to here
[01:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> hear
[01:35] <comjf> anyone have an opinion of system76 products?
[01:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> My laptop is a convertible touch tablet, you know, those thinkpads. It really put into perspective allot of the design choices for ubuntu
[01:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> for example, the reason why when you scroll windows, a small little side bar pops up wherever your mouse goes.
[01:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I owned one
[01:36] <bobweaver> comjf,  I have a little sys76 I like it
[01:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: My lappy, as I found out, was basically a refurbished chinese mobo
[01:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> which is fine, I don't expect them to make their own hardware
[01:37] <comjf> haha yeah... thinking about getting one. Anyone have a recommended system?
[01:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and it is practical for them to just slap a shell on one of their machines
[01:38] <dmd> my friend just got a thinkpad carbon and he loves it
[01:38] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Frankly, I would suggest the thinkpad
[01:38] <dmd> he is using 12.10 with it
[01:38] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Really, the carbon??
[01:38] <dmd> yup
[01:38] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I was looking at that, seemed interesting. didnt look as durable though
[01:38] <dmd> razer thin thing
[01:38] <Akiva-Thinkpad> perhaps I am wrong though
[01:39] <dmd> my t510 is way too heavy
[01:39] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Carbon is lousy on the battery I think though
[01:39] <dmd> if i were to upgrade it would be a carbon or the carbon's successor
[01:39] <dmd> maybe
[01:39] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the thinkpad x series still steals the show
[01:39] <comjf> aren't they pretty bulky
[01:39] <Akiva-Thinkpad> what is it, like 18 hour battery lifes
[01:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: They are boxy, but durable.
[01:40] <comjf> yeah
[01:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and the tablet pc is bulkier
[01:40] <comjf> honestly I really would like something with a decent touchpad
[01:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> where as the regular x is like 66 percent the size, and 66 percent the weight.
[01:41] <comjf> I have to give credit to apple, they have a great touchpad and OS support for it
[01:41] <comjf> I havent found anyhting even close
[01:41] <dmd> thinkpads have the trackpoint, 10x better than any trackpad
[01:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Well the lenovos have the best keyboards in the market. :P
[01:41] <comjf> dmd: trackpoint?
[01:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: The little red nub?
[01:42] <dmd> yup
[01:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I bought an x60 tablet for 120 a month ago for my main pc, it has no trackpad, just that nub
[01:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> its alright, given the age though, mine sometimes gets stuck on wandering
[01:42] <dmd> a while back my trackpad was deactivating on its own. It took ages for me to notice since I was using the trackpoint without thinking about it
[01:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> thinkpads also are spill proof
[01:43] <dmd> Akiva-Thinkpad: ah I know what you mean
[01:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ha ha
[01:43] <dmd> you can fix that by tapping the trackpad
[01:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't have a trackpad
[01:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> x60 is 2006
[01:43] <dmd> that might be an issue
[01:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> core 2 duo though, and battery is a good 4 hours.
[01:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah
[01:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> lol, for 120 off craigslist, it was a pretty good deal
[01:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> fyi, you will usually hook anything you want for 1/4th the asking price on craigslist; you just have to be patient enough
[01:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> although, offer too little, and some people will send you fake addresses to go to
[01:45] <dmd> that would be a pain
[01:47] <comjf> thinkpads look pretty good now that I look at them, though, I was interested in system76 simply because it supports linux so much and it's good for the ecology as a whole
[01:48] <dmd> all the thinkpads are sent to canonical to get certified
[01:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: well, they do support the linux action show
[01:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I was just mad that they sold out of their cute 13 inch laptops way back
[01:48] <comjf> yeah and the W530 does look tempting haha
[01:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I also complained yesterday to a lenovo consultant that I could not ship my damn new lenovo if I were to buy one, without windows
[01:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> he said they used to do that, but took it away because of the imbeciles calling in and wondering why their computer wasn't working.
[01:49] <dmd> makes sense
[01:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I'd say get the x series. The battery is bloody unbeatable
[01:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> like, were talking 15 hours +
[01:50] <comjf> Akiva-Thinkpad: W has More than 20 hours with a 9-cell slice battery
[01:50] <dmd> the w series is a desktop replacement, I'd skip that
[01:50] <dmd> you'll adjust to a regular laptop screen without issue
[01:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: any interest in touch capability?
[01:50] <comjf> I would like a good graphics card is the only thing
[01:50] <dmd> also skip that
[01:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> for games?
[01:50] <comjf> no, dont like touch
[01:51] <dmd> intel's are the best on linux
[01:51] <dmd> I went for a nvidia dedicated on my t510
[01:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Yah, I really have to hand it to intel
[01:51] <comjf> yes, games (dual boot) and GPU programming
[01:51] <dmd> regret that, all it does is consume for battery
[01:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> they are the first chips that don't lag compiz for me
[01:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and that really ticked me off with nvidia and its post throttling
[01:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: the battery life on the newer i7's have been getting progressively worse too
[01:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> especially considering they are not adding cores, and they are only improving performance by like 10 percent per year
[01:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> why did amd have to drop the ball so hard?
[01:53] <dmd> amd is dead, they never stood a chance
[01:53] <dmd> intel has the fab tech and volume
[01:54] <dmd> interesting to see what the console business does to amd
[01:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: They were better for awhile
[01:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> but ati did not pan out
[01:54] <dmd> yup
[01:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> AMD licensed ARM I heard
[01:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> so
[01:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> :P
[01:54] <dmd> arm does not need amd
[01:54] <dmd> arm is only even more compettive
[01:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Arm could replace x86
[01:54] <dmd> then perfect
[01:55] <dmd> but amd is only of use thanks to their access to x86 patents
[01:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: i am not tremendously familiar with the platform, but I understand it is much leaner
[01:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> right, they got some 4000 patents I think
[01:55] <dmd> the key to arm's success is the licensing model
[01:56] <dmd> any one can fab them
[01:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd:  how is that?
[01:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> right
[01:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I am kicking myself now
[01:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I looked into them some time ago
[01:56] <dmd> arm is pulling the same tactic that won the PC for microsoft
[01:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and thought that it would never happen
[01:56] <dmd> and is winning mobile for google
[01:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Google has its own problems, specifically, pissing me off with its ads and search results
[01:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and for not porting sketchup
[01:57] <comjf> about ads, how do I get them off the dash
[01:57] <comjf> I uninstalled amazon but they are still there
[01:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I forgot about them to be honest
[01:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: in the next release, they are revamping it
[01:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> 12.10 is a "Come along for the ride" release, so I'd just say, wait till april
[02:00] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't know, am I being to harsh in saying that system76 laptop models are bland and boring?
[02:01] <comjf> haha possibly
[02:01] <dmd> oh no you didn't!
[02:01] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I didnt mind my machine, but it didnt take to falling very well
[02:01] <Akiva-Thinkpad> screen cracked, and yah
[02:01] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: I was able to get hackintosh running fairly well on it though
[02:01] <comjf> not much innovation, but its more money to the linux ecosystem
[02:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Thats how I felt
[02:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: just complain to lenovo about their linux offerings
[02:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> comjf: Or what about dell?
[02:02] <comjf> not a fan of del
[02:02] <Akiva-Thinkpad> They have cleaned up their reputation in manny ways
[02:03] <comjf> they screwed my years ago
[02:03] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yah, years ago they were terrible
[02:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> avoid samsung btw, their efi may brick your system if you install ubuntu
[02:06] <comjf> haha ok
[02:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dell to me though is also bland and boring, although those super thin laptops were certainly interesting
[02:07] <dmd> dell needs more time to prove themselves
[02:09] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: Or a makeover
[02:09] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Lenovo thinkpads still steal the show for me. BLAND ON PURPOSE, and thus awesome.
[02:10] <dmd> they are not bland they are timeless
[02:10] <dmd> timeless tanks
[02:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yep
[02:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Sad that IBM does not head them anymore
[02:10] <dmd> lenovo has done a fine job
[02:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> They have
[02:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> except, no linux. And if something goes wrong with my machine, they would reinstall windows.
[02:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> And drivers for linux can sometimes be a pain
[02:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mmmm what do you think of this isometric style? http://www.dedoimedo.com/images/games/openttd_ss_3_large.jpg
[02:27] <dmd> simcity 2000!
[02:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: its openttd
[02:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> which btw, is so much fun playing online
[02:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> its like starcraft, except business oriented
[02:28] <dmd> yeah I've played openttd, bit too complex for me
[02:29] <dmd> but that isometric really reminded me of sim city 200
[02:29] <dmd> 0
[02:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: learning curve is tough. After reading tutorials though
[02:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> it becomes obsessive
[02:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> dmd: One thing I am wondering with this style, is can drop off cliffs be implimented
[02:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wait
[02:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yes yes they can,
[02:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> rollercoaster tycoon tells me so
[03:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wow, gimp is impossible with a stylus
[03:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and frustrating with its window scheme
[03:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I have never liked that about gimp
[03:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> floating windows always get in my way, and then they get lost
[03:46] <usererror> Akiva-Thinkpad: I think its under the windows menu, you can set it to single-window mode.. as of v 2.8
[03:47] <usererror> also, I agree.. the floating windows = pain in the butt
[03:49] <comjf> I'm getting my fingers wet with C++ in order to eventually bind it with QML, but strange issue: my program runs, then gives a seg fault. The funny thing is, if I put a print statement as the line right before return 0, it works, so what;s causing the seg fault?
[06:46] <isaias> help, please. I just bought my Nexus 7 just so I could get Ubuntu on it. It goes black after showing the Ubuntu booting up
[06:47] <isaias> I've tried the Installer, and even a manual install using an older version.
[07:01] <bobweaver> isaias,  what img was that that you tried to install ?
[07:01] <isaias> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-preinstalled/
[07:03] <bobweaver> huh kinda late you have tried talking in #ubuntu-arm ?
[07:03] <isaias> they gave me that one
[07:04] <bobweaver> I think that there is a nexus 7 room
[07:06] <bobweaver> I am not sure isaias  I am sure that someone will come along that has one of them
[07:07] <isaias> i hope they come on soon, lol. i wanted to take it to work xD
[10:21] <Walther> Is there going to be any merges between Ubuntu Phone and Ubuntu for Nexus 7?
[10:21] <Walther> At least in my opinion, even if Nexus 7 has a 1280x800 resolution, it could benefit from a more phone-y / tablet-y UI
[10:21] <Walther> (Oh, and I would be glad to help testing that)
[10:50] <isaias> Anyone familiar with installing Ubuntu on Nexus 7?
[10:51] <isaias> I cant seem to get mine working
[10:55] <popey> isaias: probably best asking in #ubuntu-arm
[10:57] <isaias> i did. just hoping someone here could answer since no one there is avaible, and its somewhat the same technology :P
[10:57] <isaias> thank you though :)
[10:58] <lecrs> im confused
[10:58] <lecrs> is it tehre already?
[10:58] <lecrs> :o
[10:59] <chefsunter> why i get here?
[11:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> lecrs: Do a barrel roll
[12:53] <isaias> anyone here know how to deal with problems when installing ubuntu on a Nexus 7? My screen goes black after the boot logo
[12:57] <ubuntubhoy> #ubuntu-arm would be your place
[12:57] <ubuntubhoy> how long have you left it
[12:58] <ubuntubhoy> first boot takes a little time
[13:07] <isaias> overnight
[13:08] <isaias> 08:55 <ogra_> there is a bug in the images atm .... being worked on
[13:08] <isaias> 08:55 <ogra_> try again on the weekend
[13:08] <isaias> :(
[13:09] <isaias> thats from #ubuntu-arm
[13:42] <darthmuffins> would anyone be interested in the email client supporting the exchange / activesync protocol?
[14:03] <wastrel> darthmuffins: i think many people would be interested
[14:04] <darthmuffins> I definitely was hoping so. I love the ubuntu phone platform, and I really would like to see it widely adopted. I think given the slow decline of RIM, some market share is becoming available... maybe
[14:04] <darthmuffins> and if we could get a good exchange client developed, it would help the platform's acceptance a lot
[14:06] <Guest48764> hi iam hema , i just love this ubuntu phone , and concept behind this
[14:07] <Walther> I just had a nice chat at -arm with a dev about the fate of Nexus7. I was given the impression that the "nexus7 ubuntu" project is actually not intended for end users but as a unity developing tool, so I'm kinda starting to hope that the actual Ubuntu Phone...
[14:07] <Walther> ...OS would support the Nexus 7 as well
[14:07] <Walther> as in, to get the same UI and UX running on n7 as well
[14:08] <Guest48764> i like to work it on my galaxy ace plus , is there any way to run it , or idea for running it virtually
[14:14] <darthmuffins> I concur about nexus 7 support
[14:14] <darthmuffins> It really has more value if it supports a few form factors, and the flagship google products are a great start
[14:14] <Guest48764> is there any way running running  ubuntu phone os virtually
[14:14] <darthmuffins> The apps i've started for uphone i've made sure they can handle responsive layout changes, like from a phone to a tablet
[14:15] <darthmuffins> there is not so far - its marked 'development' currently, but as I understand it, will be released when its ready
[14:16] <wastrel> is there a follow on tutorial once i've completed the currency converter tutorial
[14:16] <Guest48764> okay how to contribute in development team
[14:16] <wastrel> or is it just, here's the api docs have fun
[14:17] <wastrel> Guest48764: you can install the sdk
[14:17] <darthmuffins> @wastrel: thats how I understand it. Although the ubuntu SDK just provides some custom QML classes, I'd recommend the QML tutorials if you want more info:
[14:17] <meetingology> darthmuffins: Error: "wastrel:" is not a valid command.
[14:17] <darthmuffins> http://doc.qt.digia.com/stable/qml-tutorial.html
[14:17] <wastrel> thanks
[14:18] <darthmuffins> guest# - the official dev teams are closed, you can make patches and submit branches though
[14:18] <darthmuffins> wastrel: also, I'd highly recommend learning how to make your own QML classes inside of C++ (using Qt) if you're doing performance intensive applications
[14:21] <Guest48764> @darthmuffins : thanks , since iam new to  this , where i can see the bug list , and how to start??
[14:21] <meetingology> Guest48764: Error: "darthmuffins" is not a valid command.
[14:23] <darthmuffins> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
[14:23] <darthmuffins> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-phone-coreapps
[14:23] <wastrel> darthmuffins: i would have to learn C++ first
[14:23] <darthmuffins> those are great places to get started but be warned: the main source for uPhone has not been released yet
[14:23] <darthmuffins> most of the bzr repos are just placeholders, and there are no bugs reported that mean anything yet
[14:24] <darthmuffins> wastrel: lol no worries, just a suggestion, since QML is powerful, but limited
[14:24] <wastrel> i've got some C background but never used C++
[14:25] <darthmuffins> well in 5 seconds:
[14:25] <darthmuffins> - Its easy to make syntactically valid C++ if you know C
[14:25] <darthmuffins> - Designing good C++ code will take you a while
[14:25] <darthmuffins> - The Qt tutorials are excellent if you just want to hack away underneath QML
[14:27] <wastrel> suite
[14:27] <wastrel> tyvm you're my new favourite
[14:28] <darthmuffins> haha np
[14:28] <darthmuffins> i'm now going to be on here a lot, always as 'darthmuffins'
[14:29] <isaias> hey. any way I can look at the code for anything? xD I just want to see how things are put together. (teaching myself programming)
[14:30] <darthmuffins> isaias: anything specific?
[14:32] <isaias> not really. I just want to see how its all put together, even though I wont understand much of it, lol
[14:32] <wastrel> isaias: did you do the currency converter tutorial?
[14:33] <darthmuffins> understandable. be aware the source code has not been released by the canonical 'skunkworks' team yet
[14:33] <isaias> wastrel: never heard of it
[14:33] <darthmuffins> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[14:33] <darthmuffins> learn QML as well for that
[14:34] <darthmuffins> and javascript
[14:35] <isaias> so Ubuntu phone uses QML and Javascript?
[14:36] <darthmuffins> yeah
[14:36] <darthmuffins> its mainly Qt based
[14:36] <darthmuffins> (obviously there is a native renderer, but they haven't released details about it yet)
[14:37] <NickCell> hi all, Ubuntu for phone will have the same security than Ubuntu for PCs ???
[14:38] <isaias> darthmuffins: hehehe, thanks.
[14:39] <Ruslan> darthmuffins: what exactly can you provide for extended email support? do you have library/app/ideas?
[14:40] <darthmuffins> rusian: I can provide a github account where I will be doing development (its quite barren at the moment)
[14:41] <darthmuffins> my company intends to provide an exchange client for ubuntu phone. whether we provide it as a standalone application, integrate it with the existing email client, etc has not been decided yet.
[14:42] <darthmuffins> https://github.com/veridianenterprises
[14:42] <wastrel> activesync is what mobile devices typically support afaik
[14:42] <wastrel> versus mapi, correct?
[14:42] <darthmuffins> correct
[14:42] <wastrel> ja
[14:42] <wastrel> i use davmail on my linux to get my exchange mail
[14:42] <wastrel> it is not bad
[14:43] <wastrel> java iirc
[14:43] <darthmuffins> cool, thanks for the reference
[14:43] <darthmuffins> I'll take a look at it
[14:43] <wastrel> yw
[14:43] <NickCell> any reference about ubuntu_phone security ??
[14:44] <wastrel> NickCell: it's early days, i don't know that there's much info about anything yet
[14:44] <darthmuffins> nick: more specifically... what?
[14:44] <wastrel> much less specifics about specific
[14:44] <wastrel> i've read there's nothing like android intents currently but maybe in the future
[14:45] <darthmuffins> it depends on what you mean by 'security'
[14:45] <NickCell> So, the security will be the same than Ubuntu for PCs, for example, with root account ??
[14:46] <darthmuffins> yep, based on a very similar kernel to the upstream android one
[14:47] <NickCell> ok.
[14:54] <mhall119> Hi guys, more core apps mockups have posted, this time from Canonical's Design Team: http://design.canonical.com/2013/02/app-patterns-applied-core-utilities-for-ubuntu-on-phones/
[15:00] <darthmuffins> thanks!
[15:06] <Svenny> any official release date for the phone?
[15:12] <darthmuffins> Mark Shuttleworth has said a few times he's planning on Oct '13
[15:12] <darthmuffins> (for a finished product)
[15:24] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Heh, I am having a great time planning this game
[15:25] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I think it will be a great hit, and pretty straightforward to program assuming I can get a decent isometric engine
[15:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I am thinking I will call it "World of Tactics"
[15:30] <darthmuffins> are there no iso engines for linux? (idk much about the game industry)
[15:31] <darthmuffins> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible_Isometric_Free_Engine
[15:31] <darthmuffins> (warning: might be off topic for this, sorry)
[15:33] <wastrel> is it called "grumpy avians"
[15:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: All I want is the capabilities of the Rollercoaster tycoon terrain, ie, slopes and drop off cliffs. The source code for one of these should not be too hard to find. Openttd after all is all scratch
[15:33] <wastrel> oh nvm
[15:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: I was looking at that, I havn't decided what I want to go with yet
[15:34] <darthmuffins> i got you. I think games will be very important for the success of the uphone, so I'm glad we've got some devs
[15:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I am just right now trying to define the rules of the game
[15:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Uphone
[15:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> heh
[15:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Umake that up?
[15:35] <darthmuffins> very encouraging. I really think a successful app marketplace with premium games will help vault it into mainstream, hopefully more sales numbers than the USC
[15:35] <darthmuffins> uPhone... lol
[15:36] <darthmuffins> yeah, not like someone else probably hasn't called it that tho
[15:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Well it might be good branding
[15:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> better than calling it an iphone or android "Killer"
[15:36] <darthmuffins> yeah, I'm going to keep calling it the uPhone
[15:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Calling something  "Killer" is usually indicative of wishful thinking
[15:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: What about, "The Shuttleworth"
[15:37] <darthmuffins> lol
[15:37] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Hey, let me grab my shuttleworth, and dock on to your computer
[15:38] <darthmuffins> while pretty awesome sounding, i feel like that wouldn't help the platform
[15:39] <Akiva-Thinkpad> anyways, my game is going to be a cross between World of tanks and Front Mission. I think I will make it partly turn based in order to compensate for the phone.
[15:39] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Ubuntu is really strange branding. Its memorable, but it doesnt roll off the tongue.
[15:39] <darthmuffins> cool. QML and js?
[15:40] <darthmuffins> avkiva: I sort of agree. I like the name, but it does have drawbacks to the masses, imo
[15:40] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Mmmm, I'll probably put it in python first, and then convert it appropriately.
[15:40] <darthmuffins> uPhone is cool though
[15:41] <darthmuffins> you'll have to look into how, the ubuntu sdk only provides easy rendering using their QML classes, but we really just need to have a look at the full source before getting a good idea
[15:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> uphone is though, unoriginal. The letter has been done to death. First the e's, then the i's, and now the u's?
[15:42] <darthmuffins> haha i know, but its also:
[15:42] <darthmuffins> clear
[15:42] <darthmuffins> concise
[15:42] <darthmuffins> simple
[15:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> True,
[15:42] <darthmuffins> idk, its just what i've been calling it to type less lol
[15:42] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Linux was a good choice for the os name
[15:43] <darthmuffins> affirmative
[15:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I forget what Linus wanted to call it, but I remember it being really dumb
[15:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Slackware I think remains the coolest distro name. Too bad ubuntu isnt using that as its platform
[15:43] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Let me grab my slacks
[15:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Slackphone
[15:44] <darthmuffins> slackware is cool
[15:45] <darthmuffins> if up to me, i'd keep it branded ubuntu something though, since the whole point is to provide a desktop OS in the mobile device, and ubuntu has a very strong desktop OS following already
[15:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> The animals were a cool idea
[15:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> they rejected my idea for J though, "Jumping J. Edgar Hoover"
[15:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Jackalope though was pretty legendary
[15:47] <darthmuffins> yeah, major awesome points for jackalope
[15:47] <nOStahl> wonder how this project will spur off ubuntu for tablets
[15:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I was thinking of making my app good for ubuntu desktop and phone, and when you enter a tourny, you could be like; Mobile users vs Desktop users :D
[15:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: Ubuntu for tablets is... well, ubuntu.
[15:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Go complain to lenovo that they don't ship ubuntu
[15:48] <nOStahl> not exactly
[15:48] <darthmuffins> nope, i think for tablets it will mimic phones
[15:48] <darthmuffins> its a touch interface, and that is the major divider between desktop and mobile
[15:48] <darthmuffins> its a fundamentally different way of interacting
[15:48] <nOStahl> the interface is not touch friendly with straight ubuntu
[15:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> They are the only decent hardware company  with class.
[15:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: i am using a thinkpad tablet laptop
[15:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> it works well
[15:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> the stylus and the inability to do input is a bit unfortunate, but time will come when this is available
[15:50] <nOStahl> too bad they don't have express card slots in tablets
[15:50] <nOStahl> could put that express card slot mouse in there
[15:50] <nOStahl> and be off and running for the day heh
[15:55] <isaias> hello
[15:56] <isaias> will the phone support flash? :D
[15:57] <isaias> i mean, anything is possible with open source, but since its a phone, and no phone supports it...
[15:57] <Ruslan> isaias: why do you need it?
[15:57] <darthmuffins> no reason to: see HTML5
[15:57] <isaias> some websites
[15:58] <darthmuffins> those websites (i promise) are all moving to HTML5
[15:58] <darthmuffins> imo, its a dying tech
[16:02] <isaias> ok
[16:02] <darthmuffins> sorry :/
[16:03] <isaias> thats alright, lol
[16:03] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Anyways, anyone interested in what I have in mind for my game? As said, it will be a cross between this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbWrscGyqIg and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGDwJ1nH7HQ
[16:05] <darthmuffins> my $0.02:
[16:05] <darthmuffins> I don't like turn based games
[16:05] <darthmuffins> I wouldn't mind helping you write the engine
[16:05] <darthmuffins> I'm not into playing games as much any more
[16:05] <Akiva-Thinkpad> The content is very natural, given that the models will be based on historical tanks
[16:06] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: I am thinking that it would be...mmmm, a quasi turn based. Rather
[16:06] <Akiva-Thinkpad> i was thinking that you issue orders to active units, they move to where you want, and you are notified when something comes up
[16:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I was hoping that the way I set up the isometrics, that it will act mostly as an easy means for creating waypoints,
[16:07] <isaias> FF Tactics, with tanks?
[16:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Yah, more or less
[16:07] <isaias> cool
[16:08] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Right now, I am just building my roadmap on a google spreadsheet
[16:08] <darthmuffins> its a lot to consider, game engines are complex. want to start a discussion else where than the phone channel for this? I've done a simple game engine before, i could probably help out some
[16:09] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: This should be pretty straightforward insolong as I outline the classes and functions that need to be built, and keep the roadmap updated
[16:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Also the graphics should be easy given that it is historical models; allot can be copy, rendered, and pasta'd
[16:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: The unity engine caught my eye, but I am told that no dev tools exist for it yet on linux
[16:10] <darthmuffins> true, but we still don't know much about how the uPhone renders. QML is straightforward with respect to its openGL contexts, but still lots to think about
[16:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> :(
[16:10] <darthmuffins> that is correct
[16:11] <darthmuffins> more important than designing classes, a higher level information architecture should be considered, imo
[16:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: What do you mean?
[16:11] <darthmuffins> ie: where does data come from and go to in your engine. what provides what data. how does an event get passed on
[16:12] <darthmuffins> like a flowchart. that's what i've always started with (after defining goals and design criteria)
[16:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Yes yes, that all will get sorted out before I start, well the obvious things anyways.
[16:12] <darthmuffins> sweet
[16:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I love flowcharts
[16:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Well, I like heirarchichal spreadsheets better
[16:13] <darthmuffins> both are good
[16:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Flowcharts are a pain to setup sometimes :P
[16:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Dammit rhombus, fit!
[16:13] <darthmuffins> true... but give google draw a try
[16:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Is it multi editable?
[16:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> well I guess it must be...
[16:17] <darthmuffins> multi editable?
[16:17] <darthmuffins> multiuser->yes
[16:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> What is a good word for "Completed to satisfaction, but could still be worked on and improved"
[16:21] <darthmuffins> 'acceptable'
[16:22] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Works
[16:25] <wastrel> i am thirsty
[16:25] <darthmuffins> ... for ubuntu?
[16:27] <wastrel> i suppose
[16:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wastrel: Do a barrel roll
[16:28] <nOStahl> so ubuntu for phones - when docked it boots full blown ubuntu desktop?
[16:29] <mhall119> nOStahl: that's the plan
[16:30] <darthmuffins> idk if boots would be correct, but thats how I understand it
[16:30] <mhall119> for high-end phones anyway
[16:30] <mhall119> and yeah, it won't "boot" it'll just switch the shells
[16:30] <darthmuffins> right
[16:30] <nOStahl> mhall119: is there a possibility of doing it without it docked as well
[16:30] <mhall119> nOStahl: using the desktop shell on a phone screen?
[16:31] <nOStahl> i.e. with stylus or whatever is needed but ya
[16:34] <darthmuffins> so many cool potentials here... we will find out a lot more when the source is released
[16:36] <mhall119> nOStahl: the phone shell will be much more usable on a phone screen
[16:36] <mhall119> even with a stylus
[16:36] <nOStahl> what if there is no app for a certain function yet
[16:36] <nOStahl> and I want to check a server monitor etc
[16:37] <darthmuffins> it will have a terminal...
[16:37] <darthmuffins> cmnd line FTW
[16:37] <nOStahl> yes but just examples of real world use cases :)
[16:37] <mhall119> nOStahl: all that would be different is the Unity shell
[16:38] <mhall119> if you don't have an app, putting it into desktop mode won't change anything
[16:39] <mhall119> it won't be different version of Ubuntu running the Phone UI and the docked desktop UI
[16:40] <nOStahl> I guess what I'm thinking is that it could be a scaled screen of a normal desktop i.e. for resolution purposes
[16:40] <darthmuffins> I think he's asking if you have a desktop app, and you've installed in when your phone is in desktop mode, then you try to run it in phone mode. what happens if it doesn't have a specific phone ui?
[16:41] <nOStahl> aye I'm not still clear on the way it all operates :)
[16:42] <mhall119> that's not really defined yet, but I don't think there would be a difference running it on the phone screen with the phone UI compared to the desktop UI also on the phone's screen
[16:42] <mhall119> so basically if the app will run on the phone's screen, it'll do so just as well with the phone shell
[16:43] <nOStahl> will there be screen scaling or scrolling with the phone ui
[16:43] <nOStahl> so if I load a desktop app that needs 768 by 1024 to see the whole program etc
[16:44] <wastrel> i'm going to write a phone app for ubuntu
[16:44] <mhall119> nOStahl: I don't think that's been determined yet
[16:45] <mhall119> wastrel: what kind?
[16:45] <Ruslan> oh, btw, are there any plans for fb2/epub reader?
[16:45] <Ruslan> or I would be forced to port FBReader again?
[16:45] <darthmuffins> i'm working on an exchange client for uPhone
[16:46] <mhall119> Ruslan: there aren't any plans for an e-book reader that I know of yet, an FBReader port would be nice though, I love FBReader
[16:46] <nOStahl> darthmuffins: I have been running a zimbra server for several years now.
[16:47] <Ruslan> mhall119: I'm able to port an c++ version, as I've already done for MeeGo Harmattan
[16:47] <darthmuffins> yeah, fbreader wouldbe great
[16:47] <Ruslan> but I wonder, is it possible to use Okular instead?
[16:47] <darthmuffins> i like the exchange protocol, very convenient at the user lever
[16:47] <wastrel> mhall119: probably a very bad one
[16:47] <mhall119> Ruslan: I don't know
[16:47] <Ruslan> or it leak Qt5 support?
[16:48] <mhall119> Ruslan: there is full Qt5 and QML2 support in Ubuntu Phone
[16:48] <nOStahl> darthmuffins: make sure your code plays nice with z-push
[16:48] <darthmuffins> (and yay for that, Qt is awesome)
[16:48] <mhall119> that is our primary toolkit focus
[16:48] <darthmuffins> if z-push is in fact compliant, it will be
[16:48] <Ruslan> mhall119: I mean Okular's support for Qt5 :)
[16:49] <nOStahl> darthmuffins: it is THE open source exchange connector deal , zarafa and zimbra can use it
[16:49] <Ruslan> it's KDE-dependent application, and kdelibs are not fully ported to Qt5 yet
[16:49] <mhall119> Ruslan: oh, that I wouldn't know
[16:49] <Ruslan> also I don't know if it possible at all to use kdelibs at Ubuntu Phone
[16:49] <darthmuffins> qt5 had relatively minor changes for a major version increment
[16:50] <darthmuffins> it shouldn't be too hard to help out if they aren't supporting it yet
[16:50] <darthmuffins> and yeah, I'll be testing my client against zpush, zimbra, and a trial of mses 2013
[16:50] <nOStahl> darthmuffins: great to hear
[16:51] <nOStahl> ahhh its going to be a perfect world soon for me with ubuntu phone
[16:51] <Ruslan> hm, also, does anybody know "alredy working" smtp/imap/pop3 implementations which are possible to reuse in default e-mail application?
[16:51] <nOStahl> wish that a hardware vendor would make something solid feeling like the iPhone 5 though
[16:53] <darthmuffins> rusian: thats included in the plan for the 'core' email client
[16:53] <darthmuffins> according to the website
[16:53] <darthmuffins> yeah, hardware-wise, iphone 5 is sublime
[16:54] <nOStahl> I just bought an iPhone 5 month and half ago
[16:54] <darthmuffins> ditto
[16:54] <darthmuffins> ive still got my old gnexus
[16:55] <nOStahl> good thing my wife's contract on her blackberry is not up yet - so i'll be able to give her this iPhone 5 and find myself a device to put ubuntu phone on
[16:55] <wastrel> Ruslan: what about something like fetchmail
[16:55] <nOStahl> that galaxy note looks interesting with the big screen and stylus
[16:56] <Ruslan> darthmuffins: sorry, what do you mean?
[16:57] <Ruslan> wastrel: I suppose there can be license issues
[16:57] <Ruslan> I can't just copy it's source to an application
[16:57] <Ruslan> so library is preferred, not an application
[16:58] <darthmuffins> rusian: what was your question?
[16:58] <darthmuffins> there are libs that implement common mail protocols i think
[17:01] <Ruslan> darthmuffins: I've found only libmailcommon, which is part of kde, libevolution, which is part of gnome
[17:01] <Ruslan> other one are strange
[17:02] <darthmuffins> http://www.washington.edu/imap/
[17:02] <darthmuffins> http://www.vmime.org/
[17:03] <darthmuffins> http://libsmtp.berlios.de/
[17:03] <darthmuffins> i prefer imap to pop
[17:04] <Ruslan> darthmuffins: thanks for links :)
[17:05] <Ruslan> darthmuffins: I also, but there are still popular pop-only servers in real world
[17:05] <darthmuffins> np
[17:05] <darthmuffins> true. and i wouldn't use them lol
[17:06] <Ruslan> i.e. historically mail.ru is one of the most poopular e-mail provider in ex-USSR, but technically it's too stupid
[17:07] <darthmuffins> yeah, lots of FOSS projects like that are still around
[17:07] <Ruslan> so we have to support this protocol :(
[17:08] <rsalveti> http://www.canonical.com/content/touch-developer-preview-ubuntu-be-published-21-february-2013
[17:08] <KevinWright> Ruslan: how about this http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-labs/messagingframework
[17:08] <rsalveti> news about the public images ^
[17:08] <Ruslan> KevinWright: oh, it's still alive?
[17:08] <Ruslan> wonderfull
[17:09] <KevinWright> Ruslan: well alive is a relative term :)
[17:10] <KevinWright> Ruslan: if you mean still on gitorius and getting an occasional commit yes it appears so
[17:10] <darthmuffins> rsalveti: ty for link
[17:11] <darthmuffins> bbl y'all
[17:16] <Ruslan> darthmuffins: it's still Qt4-only, as I see
[17:16] <Ruslan> KevinWright: is porting qmessagingframework a part of e-mail client development? or there are other ideas
[17:16] <Ruslan> KevinWright: message before is also for you %)
[17:17] <KevinWright> Ruslan: I was just noticing the same thing, that it had not been ported to Qt5
[17:18] <KevinWright> Ruslan: Not sure how useful it might be. I noticed that the messaging module also isn't available either
[17:18] <Ruslan> KevinWright: wonderfull %) also, what's about account issue? do you have an answer or not yet?
[17:19] <KevinWright> Ruslan: that came up in another unrelated discussion today and it seems the thing I wanted to get confirmed is unclear, so we'll need to come up with something ourselves
[17:20] <KevinWright> Ruslan: But I'll keep asking around just in case
[17:20] <Ruslan> KevinWright: also, what's about telepathy support in UP?
[17:20] <Ruslan> or there will be no messaging system?
[17:21] <ajalkane> QtTelepathy support would be great
[17:22] <Ruslan> that's not related to e-mail client, but I'm interested)
[17:23] <KevinWright> Ruslan: I'm unsure myself about the specifics in that space
[17:23] <Ruslan> ok %)
[17:23] <Ruslan> hm
[17:33] <Ruslan> KevinWright: so it's possibly is needed to write own implementation? %)
[17:33] <Ruslan> hi, bugs!
[17:41] <Andy80> I have installed these packages https://launchpad.net/~canonical-qt5-edgers/+archive/qt5-beta-proper but when I call "qmake -v" from terminal I get: qmake: could not open config file '/usr/share/qtchooser//default.conf': No such file or directory
[17:41] <Andy80> any idea how to fix it?
[17:42] <wastrel> is qtchooser installed?
[17:42] <wastrel> apt-get install qtchooser
[17:50] <mhall119> http://www.canonical.com/content/touch-developer-preview-ubuntu-be-published-21-february-2013
[17:50] <mhall119> bah, popey beat me to it already
[17:52] <wastrel> so i need a new phone between now and feb21 so i can use my gnex for this
[17:53] <manoj> hello all
[17:55] <mhall119> more news in there, images for the Nexus 4 will be provided as well
[17:56] <wastrel> oh i could just get a nexus 4 then :]
[17:56] <wastrel> makes sense becasue nobody can get gnex anymore
[17:57] <mhall119> they're all over ebay
[17:59] <wastrel> oh :[
[18:00] <wastrel> heh i never think of ebay
[18:02]  * bobweaver wonders if it is uTouch 
[18:02] <bobweaver> Any one want to help me make weather app ?
[18:04] <Andy80> wastrel, let me check...
[18:04] <Andy80> wastrel, yes, it's installed
[18:11] <mhall119> bobweaver: uTouch was renames, it's OIF now
[18:11]  * Andy80 is getting a Lumia 920 next week, just in time :D
[18:11]  * jo-erlend has bought the Nexus 7 and is wondering if this is also the right time to get a Galaxy Nexus. 
[18:17] <bobweaver> ahh cool sorry mhall119  for that late response I m in meeting (TV)
[18:55] <benkaiser> mhall119: How hard will it be to port the source of the Ubuntu Phone OS to other devices / what experience would I need?
[18:55] <rsalveti> Stskeeps: hey
[18:56] <mhall119> benkaiser: I don't know, but we're targetting Android-compatible devices, so it shouldn't be any harder than porting Android
[18:56] <rsalveti> Stskeeps: so, we're not forking hybris :-) we just had a custom version to help getting the stuff up to speed, the goal is to clean that up and start sending the patches back to you in a few days
[18:56] <doomlord> do you know if any phones can display 1920x1080p when docked (even if they have lower res displays) - i gather some can output video like this -but is that a seperate path
[18:56] <rsalveti> Stskeeps: and also making the package available at ubuntu (raring)
[18:56] <Stskeeps> rsalveti: that'd be lovely, thanks
[18:56] <doomlord> e.g is the underlyiing hardware capable of 1920x1080, its just android isn't reworked for it
[18:57] <Stskeeps> rsalveti: looking forward to seeing what you've done with it
[18:57] <rsalveti> yeah :-)
[18:58] <benkaiser> mhall119: that's a worry, it takes carriers / manufacturers 6-12 months to port new android versions
[18:59] <mhall119> benkaiser: it takes Cyanogen/XDA hackers significantly less time
[19:00] <benkaiser> mhall119: so true... which I can testify to with my android 4.2 running on my Galaxy Note atm... But tbh I have never contributed to the CM community
[19:32] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I was thinking of dividing my project into 5 basic classes, Governing Rules,	Artificial Intelligence,	Map Generator,	Interface,	Content
[19:32] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Think I can get away with this?
[19:32] <ajalkane> No I don't
[19:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: Yah?
[19:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> branches I mean
[19:33] <ajalkane> Just my uneducated opinion. But who not start with those and increase them later if need be :)
[19:34] <ajalkane> * why not
[19:34] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: Ah, right, that works
[19:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: of course, I'll probably make a statistics branch
[19:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> a networking branch
[19:35] <darthmuffins> still working on that game?
[19:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Hmmm come to think of it... Probably better to do that now than later
[19:35] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Yah, I'll show you my road map thus far.
[19:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmXdRsCSWUwWdHg1MEw3TVNEeWl3Y0VtVGdTd2tfR0E#gid=0
[19:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Needless to say, I am very tired
[19:36] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I get addicted to projects like these :P
[19:37] <darthmuffins> i heart projects :)
[19:37] <darthmuffins> haha
[19:41] <Akiva-Thinkpad> heh
[19:42] <darthmuffins> your spreadsheet looks godo
[19:42] <darthmuffins> good*
[19:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Thanks, its alright. Not perfect, but I am sleep deprived
[19:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> so thats okay :)
[19:44] <nOStahl> So, you know whats neat? these mobile smart phones we have these days are cooler than Tri-corder's on star trek lol
[19:44] <nOStahl> and they are thinner and sleeker to boot
[19:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> heh
[19:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> yep
[19:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ajalkane: okay, I got 9 now. Can you think of one more for a perfect 10?
[19:45] <darthmuffins> well, planning is always a good start
[19:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Governing Rules	Artificial Intelligence	Map Generator	Interface	Realtime	Statistics	Network	Sound	Art
[19:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Planning makes things easy
[19:46] <darthmuffins> akiva -> you said python yes?
[19:46] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: thats what I know and love, but i'll prob just use c++
[19:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I need the practice
[19:47] <darthmuffins> I was going to recommend that, since it can be easily ported to the QML rendering interface the ubuntuSDK uses
[19:48] <darthmuffins> I have a pretty good amount of knowledge about that process, if you want any help
[19:48] <darthmuffins> that, and i've done at least one production quality game engine
[19:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> wow, was that jono bacon?
[19:49] <darthmuffins> i'd assume so, since michael hall is on here too
[19:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Really?
[19:49] <darthmuffins> mhall119
[19:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> That is so neat :P
[19:49] <mhall119> darthmuffins: ?
[19:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> mhall119: Were busy casting a gold idol in your likeness
[19:50] <darthmuffins> sorry, we were just oogling at your celebrity status as a member of canonical
[19:50] <darthmuffins> :)
[19:50] <mhall119> Akiva-Thinkpad: awesome, I'll buy two
[19:50] <darthmuffins> can I have one?
[19:50] <mhall119> only if you worship it devoutly
[19:50] <Akiva-Thinkpad> They come with 5 commandments each
[19:50] <darthmuffins> i've already got a shrine and an apostle
[19:51] <darthmuffins> but we don't have any thing to sacrifice yet. still holding auditions
[19:51] <mhall119> commandment #1: Get Excited and Make things
[19:51] <mhall119> commandment #2, stop reading and go do #1
[19:51] <mhall119> commandment #3: seriously, stop reading.  Now!
[19:51] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Woah, its so concise
[19:52] <mhall119> commandment #4: alright fine, keep reading to find the true meaning of life
[19:52] <darthmuffins> 42
[19:52] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: anyways, got any suggestions for a 10th branch? Governing Rules	Artificial Intelligence	Map Generator	Interface	Realtime	Statistics	Network	Sound	Art
[19:52] <mhall119> commandment #5: TODO: document true meaning of live before release
[19:52] <darthmuffins> haha
[19:53] <darthmuffins> now im jealous, i need some street cred so i can have my own commandments
[19:53] <mhall119> I knew I forgot something
[19:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> commandment #6: smash the apple computers owned by canonical developers.
[19:53] <darthmuffins> no no, those are ok.
[19:53] <darthmuffins> they run ubuntu
[19:53] <mhall119> there are only 5 commandment, heretic
[19:53] <darthmuffins> :)
[19:53] <darthmuffins> burn him!
[19:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> you asked for two
[19:53] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and no, I watched the lightning developer summit
[19:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> then again, there are a few things here and there to learn from mac
[19:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I used it when I did video production,
[19:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and you really have to hand it to quicktime; it is stable.
[19:55] <darthmuffins> haha - they are masters of UI design too
[19:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> meh
[19:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Never was a fan to be honest
[19:55] <darthmuffins> I emulate them in gui design for non power users
[19:55] <darthmuffins> yeah but 500million people disagree with you...
[19:55] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Well, allot of programs come off as winampish
[19:56] <darthmuffins> and ill think about anothe rcolumn... i'm working on some general libs and interface classes you can use to interface an engine with the QML classes
[19:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> you know, abandons any uniformity, and just does what it wants
[19:56] <darthmuffins> or at least, thinking about how to do so
[19:56] <darthmuffins> true
[19:56] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I smell bacon.
[19:57] <darthmuffins> i had bacon for lunch
[19:57] <Akiva-Thinkpad> darthmuffins: Wow. I have milk and hummus
[19:57] <darthmuffins> well, turkey bacon sandwich
[19:58] <darthmuffins> i had chickpeas as a side
[19:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Ah
[19:58] <Akiva-Thinkpad> that does sound good
[19:58] <darthmuffins> fantastique
[19:59] <benkaiser> mhall119: Is there a maps application shipping with the Ubuntu Phone OS? does it use Google Maps?
[20:00] <mhall119> benkaiser: I haven't heard anything about one
[20:00] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I can start taking pictures in my car while going to and fro
[20:01] <darthmuffins> i think gmaps data is somewhat open
[20:01] <darthmuffins> anyway, gtg. good weekend folks
[20:03] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Later
[20:03] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is there quadcore arm yet?
[20:24] <nOStahl> thought there was?
[20:25] <nOStahl> we should setup a maps app with Open Street Maps
[20:25] <Akiva-Thinkpad> nOStahl: Open Street Maps?
[20:25] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Never heard of it
[20:25] <nOStahl> you've used it I bet
[20:26] <nOStahl> even foursquare uses it
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Duck Duck Go is apparenty opensauce
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> and their search has improved leaps and bounds
[20:26] <nOStahl> I'm building an entire site around open street maps right now
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Can I see?
[20:26] <nOStahl> its local only
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> or is it not published?
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Okay
[20:26] <lordnoid> will there be dual booting?
[20:27] <nOStahl> but once its live you will most likely be using it :)
[20:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I wish you much success
[20:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> lordnoid: What else do you want to boot your phone into?
[20:27] <lordnoid> Android...
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> eww
[20:28] <wastrel> it's a good idea
[20:28] <lordnoid> for at least the coming year there will be many Android apps with no Ubuntu alternative
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> like what?
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Flashlight?
[20:28] <lordnoid> like whatsapp
[20:29] <lordnoid> or good navigation
[20:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> never heard of it
[20:29] <wastrel> or small apps for various web services people use
[20:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> meh, I just hate the whole java experience
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
[20:30] <lordnoid> the user doesn't really experience Java in Android
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Oh yes they do
[20:30] <nOStahl> i've had nothing but bad experiences with java
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Slow; bloated; Freezing
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Oh, and that it can't uninstall software?
[20:31] <lordnoid> Android definitely doesn't feel slow, bloated or freezing
[20:31] <lordnoid> and it can
[20:31] <Akiva-Thinkpad> lordnoid: Its always been behind apple, and yes it does
[20:31] <ajalkane> If the phone has unlocked bootloader, dualbooting android is technically feasible (see N9 and Nitroid for example). I don't personally think it'd be that useful, though
[20:31] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Maybe you have one of those massive phones with like 2ghz
[20:32] <wastrel> i have a galaxy nexus, performance is fine
[20:32] <wastrel> <3
[20:32] <ajalkane> Who wants to reboot their phone just to use whatsapp once in a while? In inverse, if you're that stuck up to using what's app, why would  you get Ubuntu phone in first place instead of Android phone?
[20:32] <lordnoid> I think you'd miss out on some developers if there's no dualbooting..
[20:32]  * Akiva-Thinkpad should start a campaign to get wind to carry the ubuntu phone
[20:32] <wastrel> lordnoid: it's a good idea
[20:32] <wastrel> someone should start a project for it...
[20:32] <wastrel> the indefinite someone who is not me
[20:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> lordnoid: You are probably right. Ubuntu Phones selling point is going to be to the sysadmin who wants flexibility
[20:33] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Well one of the selling points anyways
[20:33] <wastrel> the easier the better also.  my gnex is stock OS because messing with CM and rooting is not something i want to be doing with my only communication device
[20:33] <wastrel> i want a reliable communication device, not a hobby project
[20:34] <lordnoid> maybe but the marketing doesn't seem to be directed to business atm
[21:15] <ajalkane> I'm trying to run qmlscene in Ubuntu 12.10 running inside VirtualBox with host being Ubuntu 10.04. But lo and behold, errors:
[21:16] <ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
[21:16] <ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
[21:16] <ajalkane> OpenGL Warning: glXChooseFBConfig returning NULL, due to attrib=0xc, next=0x18
[21:16] <ajalkane> OpenGL Warning: glXChooseFBConfig returning NULL, due to attrib=0xc, next=0x18
[21:16] <ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
[21:16] <ajalkane> Unrecognized OpenGL version
[21:16] <ajalkane> Cannot create accessible interface for object:  QQuickRootItem(0x88eb520)
[21:16] <ajalkane> I get a totally black window as a result
[21:17] <ajalkane> Any ideas? I have host additions installed in VirtualBox and apparently running using 3D
[21:28] <dmd> ajalkane: dual boot? upgrade? vms + 3d = trouble
[21:30] <nOStahl> so what carriers will work with ubuntu phone on launch
[21:30] <dmd> you mean the october launch?
[21:30] <nOStahl> aye
[21:30] <dmd> they have not given any info about the october launch
[21:31] <dmd> my guess is china mobile, or an indian carrier
[21:31] <nOStahl> so no one knows if gsm or cdma networks?
[21:31] <ajalkane> uh... dual-boot and/or upgrade is really not something I'd look forward to. I need my working environment and dual boot is a hassle and time waste. Anyone know if VMWare works better?
[21:31] <dmd> they have not given any such info
[21:32] <nOStahl> ah
[21:48] <dmd> nOStahl: a canonical staff just emailed the mailing list with some info about cdma, its not much but it is something
[21:49] <nOStahl> cause I'm on Sprint :)
[21:51] <MostHated|2> ooo nexus 4 and galasy nexus images coming on the 21st
[21:51] <MostHated|2> yay
[21:51] <MostHated|2> *galaxy
[21:51] <dmd> where was that announced?
[21:51] <MostHated|2> http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/ubuntu-phone-developer-preview-will-arrive-on-february-21st/
[21:51] <dmd> because I have a n4, so it would be great
[21:51] <dmd> nice
[21:52] <MostHated|2> me too
[21:52] <MostHated|2> : D
[21:52] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  you have hardware accell on vbox ?
[21:53] <ajalkane> bobweaver: yeah
[21:53] <bobweaver> qt5 does not have accesablity thing for item like in qt4
[21:53] <bobweaver> you have all mesa stuff install
[21:53] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  what are you trying to run like qt3d qtshaders ?
[21:54] <ajalkane> bobweaver: I haven't installed anything extra beyond installing Ubuntu and the SDK related files... so if there's some mesa stuff to install to get it to work, I haven't done it
[21:54] <bobweaver> depends should have installed :/
[21:55] <bobweaver> are you using qt3d or any of the labs stuff ajalkane   ?
[21:56] <ajalkane> No, just basic qmlscene which tries to run a skeleton Ubuntu application
[21:56] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  got a branch of that code ?
[21:59] <ajalkane> bobweaver: sure, here's how to get it: bzr branch lp:ubuntu-filemanager-app
[21:59] <bobweaver> thanks looking now
[22:00] <dmd> ajalkane: working on the file manager as well?
[22:01] <ajalkane> dmd: I am
[22:01] <dmd> nice
[22:05] <bobweaver> ajalkane,  ok I am going to push something see if it works for you
[22:19] <ajalkane> bobweaver: I have to go sleeping. But thanks for looking into it... although I suspect it's not something that can be solved changing filemanager's sources. Seems more like environment problem running in VirtualBox :(
[22:25] <bobweaver> Oo
[22:25] <bobweaver> dmd,  you are making a file manager also ?
[22:26] <bobweaver> maybe you would like to try out  bzr branch lp:~josephjamesmills/+junk/qmlvideffectqt5
[22:26] <dmd> bobweaver: good chance I will look at it
[22:27] <dmd> bobweaver: past two days have been me playing catch up with school
[22:32] <bobweaver> I am tring to find out who is making file manager so I can tie in other apps and work with them
[22:34] <dmd> how would you tie in apps?
[22:34] <dmd> does qml have something like android's intents?
[22:35] <bobweaver> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EE5dr09ur4
[22:36] <bobweaver> like using a file manager like that
[22:37] <dmd> yeah to select files, it is a very common use case
[22:37] <dmd> but i don not know if qml has a way to call into another app like that
[22:37] <dmd> android does
[22:37] <bobweaver> so if there is a standerd app then I can include it in my app
[22:38] <bobweaver> I would figure that core apps would be like that but IDK
[22:38] <bobweaver> Like all core apps would be just one big app
[22:39] <bobweaver> weather file manager clock ect kinda like how qt does it with multimedia and all that stuff
[22:39] <bobweaver> just a thought
[22:40]  * bobweaver goes bak to cutting up strings with javascript 
[22:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> What database software works well with everything?
[22:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> err, I am tired
[22:48] <dmd> sqlite
[22:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I mean, for ubuntu phone
[22:48] <dmd> no idea
[22:48] <dmd> sorry
[22:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> How about this
[22:48] <Akiva-Thinkpad> which dbsoftware uses c++?
[22:49] <dmd> all of them?
[22:49] <dmd> the notepad example used some sql
[22:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Bah, I am way to tired to be asking questions.
[22:49] <dmd> i'd check what they did
[22:52] <dmd> or I would go to bed
[22:52] <dmd> that might be the better plan
[22:52] <bobweaver> I would also say sqllight
[22:52] <bobweaver> as that is what qt uses
[22:52] <bobweaver> well by stock
[22:53] <bobweaver> http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/How-to_create_a_persistent_settings_database_in_Qt_Quick_(QML)
[22:53] <bobweaver> http://doc.qt.digia.com/stable/qdeclarativeglobalobject.html#database-api
[22:55] <fhf> hello all I wonder if my old Samsung Galaxy S1 will be able to run Ubuntu Phone cuz I want to test out beta.
[22:56] <dmd> maybe, maybe not. It depends.
[22:56] <dmd> so maybe
[22:56] <fhf> oh ok I thought S1 will be to weak
[22:57] <dmd> it might be, it all depends on things we have no idea about
[22:58] <fhf> copy back thanks
[23:00] <Akiva-Thinkpad> bobweaver: DMT Thanks