=== Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [04:32] bug 1048556 [04:32] bug 1048556 in Ubuntu Translations "Language pack translations export needs to add universe packages to domain map" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1048556 [04:51] https://github.com/ValveSoftware/steam-runtime <- is this what it looks like? [04:51] "valve linux" [04:51] i see crosstool and buildroot [04:55] sure, it's meant to be a chroot... but how hard would it be to throw on a kernel and make it the main system? [06:22] lol [06:22] i wrote a program to stress gnome-panel and find leaks [06:22] found a leak in metacity instead [06:23] http://paste.ubuntu.com/1669331/ [06:24] makes metacity memory usage increase about about 500kb/sec [06:31] just normal window actions? [06:42] minimize, maximize, show, hide [06:42] trying to narrow down the cause now [06:55] ok, it's show/hide [06:59] minimizing also does it... looks like any state change on the window [07:16] as usual, valgrind does not consider it a real memory leak. because gnome developers are doing their usual trick of putting stuff in a hash table and then never using it again. [07:29] "It's still reachable!" [07:32] hmm... it's actually weirder than that [07:34] so because certain XEvents do not have a time stamp (apparently) metacity sends dummy property changes and then waits for the event to return (with a timestamp) [07:34] it does this a lot [07:35] and when it does it, it doesn't properly free the XEvent [07:35] yay non-timestamped events [07:35] I've heard more people complain about those [07:36] if this code is in mutter i will scream [08:00] this might actually be an X11 bug [08:02] ali1234: http://xkcd.com/349/ [08:03] when an XEvent happens it mallocs some memory [08:04] when the event is handled it doesn't free the event, it puts it into a list to be reused [08:04] but then it never reuses it [08:04] it just mallocs more and more forever [08:04] this is in libX11 [08:05] that's why it is still reachable [08:10] ah, i see what's happening [08:11] i'm filling the event queue faster than metacity can handle it [08:11] so it keep generating more and more events because the old ones aren't free yet [08:11] the unused events then build up and never get freed [08:13] apparently metacity can only handle 4 events/ms [08:14] wait, no, i mean it takes 4ms to handle 1 event === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [09:43] morninks all [10:13] morning SuperEngineer [10:15] hi di hi [10:19] o? [10:20] [that's a very tired version of "o/"] [10:20] ...up again till wee hours this a.m. [10:21] my prize... I got my .37 kernel back, I got my nvidia 304 experimental back... I've got my system back! [10:22] hooray, SuperEngineer - now run a backup ;) [10:23] dwatkins: done already! ;) [10:23] excellent - what do you use to backup, SuperEngineer? [10:24] a separate drive in same pooter - and rsync'd whole of /home [10:30] * SuperEngineer makes mental note to buy external drive and backup whole damn system! ☺ [10:32] SuperEngineer: yeah, that's what I'm just about to do [10:32] I wonder what the best mechanism is - turn off the machine and boot from an external USB stick so no files are in use, perhaps [10:32] dwatkins: you could save me some £££ here - send me your external drive [pretty please] ;) [10:33] lol [10:33] I need my drives for my own backups, I have several PCs. [10:33] SuperEngineer: protip: get 100/100 fibre, everyone's drive will be your external drive with sshfs ;) [10:33] * MartijnVdS mounts $VPS that way [10:33] MartijnVdS: you're lucky in that you can get that [10:34] dwatkins: You're free to move to the Netherlands ;) [10:34] I am, yes. [10:34] I may need to learn Dutch first. [10:34] The only people who don't speak English are <10 years old [10:35] ah ok, I imagine it might be useful to speak Dutch in a technical support job, though. [10:35] MartijnVdS: ;) [10:41] Anyone else using Steam here... and have Puddle - I'm getting tempted [10:43] I've only played half-life through steam [10:44] I played TF2 a couple weeks ago, not seen Puddle.... *starts Steam* [10:44] just read that TF2 is a 12GB download, that can't be right can it? [10:44] AlanBell: it is.. [10:44] wouldn't entirely surprise me, AlanBell [10:45] 1GB of game engine, basic models etc [10:45] 11GB of hats. [10:45] * AlanBell has a hat [10:45] why does a game have hats? [10:46] monetisation [10:46] DLC [10:46] * SuperEngineer found great joy in deleting Half-Life from windoze partition & having it here instead [10:47] HL/CS is old :( [10:47] ...but fun [10:48] I'm quite exciting by the prospect of running CS:S on my Ubuntu laptop [10:50] Just a thought - I hope all this Steam commotion doesn't make people forget things like DOSbox [10:55] my dns is a bit screwy this morning [10:55] SuperEngineer: some steam games ARE dosbox + the old DOS game :) [10:55] SuperEngineer: but those haven't been ported to Linux yet (should be easy for the devs though) [10:56] My Ubuntu PC is now my newest gaming console, I have an xbox controller which seems to work fine with it and am downloading TF2 :) [10:57] SuperEngineer: that makes me wonder if gog.com supports Linux... [10:58] AlanBell, 12GB isn't too big by modern standards, really [10:58] MartijnVdS: wow! [10:59] an MMORPG is much bigger [10:59] Barry Drake on mail list has just confirmed same problem as I had with newest driver requested by Steam... [10:59] but look at it this way - if a game is meant to be played at 1080p, then how many high resolution texture files need to ship? how much space to high res pictures take? see also sounds, 3d models, maps, badgers [11:00] ...and has a much easier way out than it took me to resolve last night! [11:00] directhex: 3d models are actually one of the smaller things, even with 6 billion polys [11:00] MartijnVdS, true [11:01] yay vectors [11:01] yeah, I figured they would be comparable to console games bug I guess they are going to be bigger than lego harry potter on the wii [11:01] s/bug/but [11:01] AlanBell: console games come on blu-ray discs, which can store up to 50GB [11:01] point is, taking tf2 as the example, the game's full set of executables and libraries is under 90 meg. of which 51 meg is libcef.so (Chromium Embedded Framework, i.e. the in-game hat store's web browser engine) [11:02] good morning everyone, [11:02] \o brobostigon [11:02] o/ MartijnVdS [11:05] -rwxrwxr-x 1 directhex directhex 5.3G Feb 16 09:45 Team Fortress 2 Content.gcf [11:05] -rwxrwxr-x 1 directhex directhex 4.5G Feb 16 09:45 Team Fortress 2 Materials.gcf [11:06] AlanBell, you're correct that games targetting the xbox 360 first tends to weigh in at ~5 gig, due to DVD limitations [11:06] AlanBell, if they target PC first, then just a decent set of textures compared to what the 360 can manage will bump that up a lot [11:06] I will try and see one of these games one day [11:07] well, let's use GTA4 as an example [11:07] dwatkins: an Xbox controll w/ Ubuntu [11:07] it's a single-disc xbox 360 game, right? [11:08] I guess. I am sure they are fun, I was just a bit surprised at it being bigger than a film [11:09] we only have a playstation 2 and a wii [11:09] I guess I haven't seen any modern games of the generation after those [11:09] apart from angry birds [11:10] the ps2 is 13 years old [11:10] jacobw: yes [11:10] let's use some concrete examples. here's GTA on PS2: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.joystiq.com/media/2008/04/gtasa.jpg [11:11] and here's GTA on a PC, with a graphics enhancement mod: http://metalarcade.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/gta_4_icenhancer_6.jpg [11:12] The cobblestones have no undulation, I feel cheated. [11:14] dwatkins: how? [11:14] that is quite a difference [11:17] here's The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim, on 2006's Xbox 360: http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/oi5iq.jpg [11:20] the same game, on pc, with a few mods scattered about: http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/deadalive.jpg [11:20] oh here we go, a better comparable shot: http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/aircav.jpg [11:21] er, http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/arboretum.jpg [11:21] or http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/2560/dawnofwar.jpg if you prefer [11:21] either way, that's the technology gap applied to the same game [11:22] wow [11:22] or http://barbarella.deadendthrills.com/imagestore/theelderscrollsvskyrim/1920/greenzone.jpg is another nice one. generally, deadendthrills.com shows what a few mods can do with a pc game [11:22] that's a remarkable difference [11:23] how do the mods work? === SassyManOfColour is now known as GentileBen [11:26] jacobw, http://deadendthrills.com/index.php?cat=1643 explains the purpose of every mod used for deadendthrills screenshots [11:26] installing all the mods is *hard work*. i mostly just install the apchaii hair [11:27] is that a texture? [11:28] there are some limited texture mods... most of skyrim's worst texture crimes were taken care of by the free 7 gig "high res texture pack" dlc. [11:29] http://store.steampowered.com/app/202485/ [11:29] I like how Half-Life (1) has a "high-res texture and model pack" [11:29] lots of inferior shaders though, which many mods try to address [11:29] but it's from 2000 or something so it's still not large (or very high-res) :) [11:32] those are the higher resolution models made for the dreamcast version of half-life [11:32] which was cancelled at the last minute [11:32] directhex: they're also used in Blue Shift [11:33] so all the dreamcast content - the high res models, and the mini campaign starring a guard, ended up in a standalone retail release for PC - blue shift [11:33] the main visible difference is scientists' ties are textures originally & separate polygons with the new models [11:34] the guns look a lot more detailed as well [11:34] and the berets of the military "captains" are black, not red [11:35] Does Microsoft provide ISOs for installing Windows 7 now? [11:36] er, somewhere. hang on. [11:36] 32 or 64 bit? [11:37] and which version (home premium, professional, etc) [11:37] 32bit professional [11:37] Yes [11:37] official ISOs are available [11:38] they work as a 30-day trial, unless you have a valid registration code (then they work as a full install) [11:38] http://msft.digitalrivercontent.net/win/X17-24280.iso [11:38] i think that's English Professional x86 [11:38] Thanks [11:38] I re-installed Win7 on my Vaio using that to get rid of Sony crapware [11:39] VAIO is not Linux friendly IIRC [11:39] jacobw: mine is all-intel, and the 3G chip is even supported if you get the firmware from your Windows partition [11:39] even the fingerprint sensor works with a bit of hacking [11:39] Huh, that's good [11:41] morning [12:14] Annoying...I just made a USB installer of ubuntu and it works on my laptop but will not boot on my desktop [12:14] It accesses it then just says boot failure [12:15] Hmmm apparently formatting the media in windows is supposed to work [12:19] BIOS systems are so annoying because they're non-standard [12:19] Some are amazing and some are utterly hopeless [12:19] kvarley: you haven't booted enough UEFI systems [12:20] kvarley: When did you last see an amazing one? [12:20] penguin42: I have an Asus board with a GUI BIOS which is amazing [12:20] Every feature is easy to find and it works really well [12:21] My laptop one can do all the things I need but it's hard to find stuff [12:21] My desktop one is just awful unless you're messing with power settings or clock speeds then it's average [12:21] Is there such thing as an open source bios? [12:21] there is [12:22] Any good? [12:22] lookup coreboot [12:22] kvarley: The problem is it has to be ported to each type of hardware [12:22] penguin42: Do any hardware manufacturers ship an open source bios? [12:23] Weirdly, making my usb installer in windows worked [12:24] kvarley: not that I'm aware of; EFI itself I think is under an open license (or some part of it?) [12:26] computer just hot rebooted [12:28] sounds fun [12:29] Managed to get gparted loaded up [12:29] So I'm one step closer [12:29] with random reboots, I'd be afraid to run that [12:30] It's fine, everything is backed up [12:30] Worst case I'll just wipe it all and start again [12:30] Moving a 100 GB partition, only gonna take 5 mins. SSD win :) [12:32] took half an hour on my SSD [12:32] but that was NTFS, maybe that matters [12:34] er, moving how? [12:35] directhex: sda: | Dead space | sda1: Windows Partition | Free space | [12:35] directhex: after move:" sda: | sda1: Windows Partition | Free space | [12:35] so not LVM then [12:35] no, gparted [12:35] ok. there's a data loss bug when moving LVM partitions on an SSD [12:36] there is? [12:36] https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/1082325 [12:36] how would that work? over-eager TRIM? [12:36] Ubuntu bug 1082325 in lvm2 (Ubuntu Quantal) "pvmove wipes data when issue_discards=1 on SSD" [Medium,Triaged] [12:36] yes, over-eager TRIM! [12:38] hmm why's that only a medium on quantal [12:38] penguin42: because 3 people use LVM on SSD [12:39] MartijnVdS: I doubt that! [12:39] okay, 5 [12:44] I guess it's an optional feature and only affects a pvmove which is relatively rare === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [12:59] hello, i have a m-audio fast track ultra, which is a usb soundcard. It works fine with jack, but when i open the sound preferences pane to try to route normal system audio through it, it does not show up anywhere there. can i use it with pulse audio, or is it jack only? [13:06] does it show up in /proc/asound/cards ? [13:13] Goodness, am I still here? [13:13] yes [13:16] Whoops :) === GentileBen is now known as RaycisCharles [13:20] The tweet from this morning is the most popular thing I've ever done. 11 replies, 60 retweets and 17 favorites [13:20] bigcalm_xoom: what did you say now? ;) [13:21] Each time I unlock my phone there are more notifications waiting [13:22] bigcalm_xoom: what kind of graphics card do you have? [13:22] bigcalm_xoom: because I've been able to use multi-monitor since forever on intel [13:24] MartijnVdS: nvidia geforce gtx 660 [13:24] hope it works after the next dist-upgrade then ;) [13:24] MartijnVdS: 2 DVI and 1 HDMI on the same card [13:25] bigcalm_xoom: I won't re-tell the story of re-installing the nvidia driver on coworkers' machines [13:25] ;) [13:25] MartijnVdS: I upgraded compiz and the system is already dead. I need to work out how to fix it [13:26] MartijnVdS: this setup was out of the box 12.10. I haven't installed binary drivers yet [13:26] bigcalm_xoom: wow, nouveau is getting better then :) [13:28] MartijnVdS: it is dog slow though. I want to install the nvidia binary, but I don't know if it will able able to still keep the setup I have [13:29] the nvidia tools should allow you to set it up similarly [13:29] Coffee be drank. Time to go shopping [13:29] but I don't think you can use the "normal" Ubuntu way [13:30] No, I think you are right there [13:31] I. Going to have to write a blog post to answer all of the questions [13:31] * bigcalm_xoom zooms away [13:31] Aww, I wrote xooms but it got auto corrected [14:29] How can I save VLC Player downloaded from terminal as setup for future installations? === emma is now known as em [14:50] hmmm [14:50] sound seems to have gone [14:50] and no idea why [14:50] I can hear the drums on start up [14:50] then no sound on any other application [14:50] not even on the test sound [14:50] :/ [14:56] * penguin42 wonders who gave me a bytemark rec - whoever it was thanks [15:00] I had sound [15:00] I was playing rhytmbox [15:00] and now nothing [15:01] this is very confusing [15:01] czajkowski: There are a few things can happen; are you using pulse? [15:02] penguin42: if it's the default then yes [15:02] as I've never changed a setting [15:02] ok [15:02] czajkowski: so the most likely thing is you've muted it somehow [15:03] czajkowski: but it's also possible something other than pulse grabbed the sound card, or that pulse is now sending it somewhere else - like up your HDMI connection if you have one [15:03] czajkowski: what does the command pactl info say as the 'default sink' [15:04] when I go into the sound setting it can see an input [15:04] and an output looks to be not muted [15:04] but when I test left/right [15:04] nothing [15:04] most odd [15:04] Default Sink: alsa_output.pci-0000_00_1b.0.analog-stereo [15:05] ok, that's good - sounds like an internal Intel audio [15:05] penguin42: I've rebooted twice and still not working though [15:05] czajkowski: How about lsof /dev/snd/* is it all pulseaudi as the command? [15:07] penguin42: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1671627/ [15:07] czajkowski: Nope, lsof it's a command [15:08] penguin42: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/1671637/ [15:09] * bigcalm sneaks in [15:09] czajkowski: Yeh that's ok [15:09] czajkowski: ok, can you pastebin the output of amixer [15:10] penguin42: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1671652/ [15:12] hmm I think that's OK as well. Hmm [15:12] czajkowski: You on speaker or phones? [15:12] tis a bit odd [15:12] speaker [15:12] ok [15:14] czajkowski: Try installing paman and look at the properties on the sink [15:14] penguin42: ok will do [15:14] thanks [15:16] czajkowski: You could also try pasuspender cat /bin/ls > /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p which should sound truly awful [15:17] nothing [15:18] hmm [15:18] you've remembered to turn your amp on haven't you? :-) [15:19] just my laptop [15:19] this is really begining to confuse me [15:20] czajkowski: Only thing I've got left is to run alsamixer and check all the options; any binary selectors just try flipping them and see if it springs into life [15:22] penguin42: thanks for the help [15:22] much appreciated [15:22] let me know if you find out what did it [15:28] penguin42: went to other user and foud sound working [15:28] rebooted twice more [15:28] and now have sound [15:29] boggles [15:30] plan vlc and it stops [15:30] now back to square one [15:32] hmm odd [15:32] anything in dmesg? [15:34] http://paste.ubuntu.com/1671866/ [15:37] nothing interesting [16:14] Updated compiz and it doesn't like my system :( [16:17] what did it do to you? [16:20] Pendulum: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/JMnvLfhYiDN [16:21] oops :) [16:22] penguin42: https://plus.google.com/113834766641843352499/posts/JMnvLfhYiDN [16:22] Pendulum: sorry :) [16:23] * penguin42 swings [16:24] bigcalm: Looks like graphics driver to me - text console+mouse pointer is quaint [16:24] penguin42: that's what I thought :) [16:24] penguin42: except that it's the default graphics driver that comes with Ubuntu 12.10 [16:24] which hardware? [16:25] nVidia GeForce GTX 660 [16:25] But using the free driver that comes with xorg [16:25] any crash info in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or /var/log/lightdm ? [16:27] bigcalm: You're dual head with one on its side? [16:28] bigcalm: The nouveau driver on 12.10 is a bit touchy for me; I run with KDE, have to disable the OpenGL effects for it to work, and also it's a bit touchy when switching monitors on my work laptop; some monitors if I boot with it plugged in it's unhappy but if I add the monitor later it's OK; some are fine either way [16:29] penguin42: http://www.myrant.net/2013/02/17/multi-screen-with-ubuntu-unity/ [16:31] bigcalm: Nice - Yeh I think you found _the_ working combination of unity/graphics driver that worked :-( [16:31] Worked once [16:32] nod [16:33] I'm on my laptop atm. Might go and pastebinit on the xorg log [16:33] nod [16:33] myrant.net? There's a domain I'll be forever envious of [16:34] you wouldn't think myrant would go well with bigcalm would you? [16:34] haha! [16:34] lol [16:34] Yeah, I'd not noticed that [16:34] :D [16:35] BigRedS: I also own and use idophp.co.uk :) [16:35] I guess someone has to! [16:35] :P [16:36] yeah, I'd be less proud of that one :) [16:37] Pfft [16:38] I don't use smutsmith.com as much as I'd like to ;) [16:38] bigcalm: While nouveau is a heck of a lot better than it was, it's still touchy with multiple monitors is my experience [16:39] but at least it seems stable when you get it in a mood it likes [16:39] penguin42: I don't think that my problem right now is to do with multiple monitors. === Lcawte|Away is now known as Lcawte [16:39] bigcalm: OK [16:39] penguin42: I've updated compiz, not the gfx driver [16:41] * bigcalm nips off to do the pastebin thing [16:51] Humm. Just booted and it's all working just fine [16:51] Grr at computers [16:51] haha [16:55] Now to ever so slowly pick my way though each of the 236 remaining updates [16:57] not just going for it? [17:01] penguin42: no. Because that video is the result of 'just going for it' [17:02] The video also depicted my view once upgrading compiz on its own, hence posting it [17:05] Humm. Spotify likes to freeze the whole desktop now and then. That's a new feature [17:15] is Skype for Linux still terrible, I abandoned ship a couple of years ago [17:16] Azelphur: I prefer it over the Windows version [17:16] Azelphur: and use it daily [17:16] that sounds promising o.O [17:17] I've been anti-skype ever since their android/linux bullshit [17:18] !ohmy | Azelphur [17:18] Azelphur: Please remember that all Ubuntu IRC channels share the same attitude of providing friendly and polite interaction with all users of all ages and cultures. Basically, this means no foul language and no abuse towards others. [17:18] * Azelphur shrugs [17:18] it's hard to use a nice word ;) [17:23] what's their android/linux, er, stuff? [17:23] I've only ever used it on those two platforms [17:23] I dislike it for the UI being atrocious more than anything else, but I don't imagine it's any better on Windows [17:24] It's more irritating on Windows [17:24] Azelphur: I guess you'll have to stick to turlingdrome, swut, joojooflop or ...Belgium [17:25] BigRedS: in the early android days, there was no Skype client, people made gateway apps which Skype actively blocked. [17:25] as for Linux, lack of support/updates [17:26] penguin42: Belgium sounds fun [17:28] [17:29] back when I used skype 2.x, it'd continually crash (silently) and leak memory \o/ [17:30] so I'm sort of hesitant to give it another go, might do though [17:30] what with MSN disappearing and all. [17:40] Google talk? [17:40] yea, google talk and IRC are always my best ports of call. [17:41] https://twitter.com/alyankovic/status/303196218807439360 [17:45] Skype 4 is good [17:46] fun [18:35] Azelphur: Skype's always worked for me. I use it incredibly infrequently, though [18:35] fun [18:35] as I say I was never disputing it working, just it being terrible [18:35] I'd use something else, but there isn't really a free replacement [18:35] indeed, there needs to be a decent replacement [18:36] although, ekiga 4 looks pretty awesome [19:08] free -m [19:09] gah [19:09] too many keyboards on this desk [19:09] lol [19:11] Synergy! [19:12] (also, it's 2013. update your muscle memory to free -g) [19:15] penguin42: killall pulseaudio gives me back sound [19:23] czajkowski: Hmm [19:24] not more pulseaudio /o\ [19:24] * bigcalm slithers in and hugs Ubuntu [19:24] it is fixed now surely [19:24] System seems to be playing ball this evening so far. [19:25] When loading an app in unity, is is possible to tell it which of my 3 screens it should start on? [19:27] Anyone here who's good at VOIP, is it somehow possible to map my own domain to call me, without running my own VOIP server? [19:27] maybe SRV records or something? [19:28] yeah, voip uses srv records [19:28] so you'd set up voip srv records pointing at whoever provides your voip [19:28] they should tell you what they should be [19:28] that's sweet :o [19:29] I'm with sipgate.co.uk [19:29] just updated offspring computers running 12.10, wondering if 13.04 will be a performance boost for them [19:29] the record is something like _sip._tcp.domain , but I can never remember. [19:29] 13.04 was just a massive pile of crashes for me [19:31] AlanBell: My boot time on 13.04 is much better than 12.10 was [19:32] AlanBell: It also looks like 13.04 has just switched to low latency kernels that should be intersting [19:32] I am running 13.04 with no drama on my laptop, but that is a core i3 with 8GB ram and SSD. The kids have atom class computers with 1 or 2GB and spinning rust disks [19:33] AlanBell: Nod, I do worry that sometimes devs only test for SSD speed these days; but the ARM stuff has got to help for running in reduced RAM/speed CPUs [19:35] I might have to get my eldest a new computer running windows and office and publisher :( [19:35] :-( [19:35] why publisher? [19:35] apparently she is about to get her school report which will ask her to use the same software at home as at school [19:36]