[01:11] <sgerbino> Can you use C++ to develop Ubuntu Phone Apps?
[01:41] <xsacha> sgerbino: yes, C++, Qt, QML
[01:41] <nOStahl> html5?
[01:42] <xsacha> well you can display a web page in QML, so why not
[01:43] <xsacha> nOStahl: QML is basically javascript though with its own types defined from C++
[01:43] <nOStahl> ah
[01:44] <sgerbino> I don't see anything about making apps in C++ for Ubuntu Phone
[01:44] <sgerbino> only 1 tutorial on QML
[01:44] <sgerbino> is it just the same as normal apps with gtkmm?
[01:45] <xsacha> sgerbino: Qt allows you to do whatever C++ you want
[01:46] <sgerbino> yea but Qt is just the IDE, can Ubuntu Phone run anything I throw at it? Like a gtk+ app in C or gtkmm in C++?
[01:47] <xsacha> Qt isn't an IDE, it's a toolkit like gtk
[01:47] <sgerbino> oh yea sorry
[01:47] <xsacha> it's a helper for things like interface, reading files, networking ,etc
[01:47] <xsacha> you can use as little or as much of it as you want
[01:47] <xsacha> and anything in Qt could be reproduced in C++
[01:48] <sgerbino> ok so i can write a gtk+ app and run it on ubuntu phone then?
[01:48] <xsacha> well that would require a gtk library, that's not pure C++
[01:49] <sgerbino> does Qt library comes with ubuntu phone then?
[01:49] <xsacha> yes
[01:49] <sgerbino> gtk is usually in ubuntu already, like unity and gnome-shell
[01:49] <xsacha> probably every app uses it
[01:49] <xsacha> yeah they have decided to go with Qt for phone instead
[01:50] <sgerbino> but when you plug the phone in, doesn't it look normal desktop unity with on top of gtk?
[01:50] <xsacha> only for high-end phones that support that feature
[01:50] <xsacha> i'm not sure how that's exposed
[01:51] <sgerbino> so many questions :D
[01:52] <sgerbino> sad about Qt though, since I been learning gtk so much lately
[01:52] <sgerbino> thinking it's better working on ubuntu
[01:53] <xsacha> unity isn't written in gtk though
[01:53] <sgerbino> i thought it is based on gtk
[01:53] <sgerbino> or sits on top of it
[01:53] <xsacha> the 2d one is Qt, the 3d one is C+++Vala
[01:56] <sgerbino> didn't know that, ty
[01:57] <sgerbino> i find alot of confusing sources on that
[01:57] <sgerbino> http://askubuntu.com/questions/9877/will-the-new-unity-desktop-be-programmed-in-qt like this guys first response
[02:00] <xsacha> sgerbino: it doesnt seem to use gtk in its source code anyway
[02:00] <xsacha> sgerbino: same with gnome-shell actually. it has a file that 'embeds gtk' but doesn't actually use gtk in it anywhere that i can see
[02:01] <xsacha> it hooks in to gtk settings in the main file
[02:02] <xsacha> http://git.gnome.org/browse/gnome-shell/tree/src?h=3.7.2.1-branch
[05:35] <bzoltan1> sgerbino, xsacha, nOStahl:  Yes, you can crete apps for the Ubuntu Phone in C++. All the tools and toolkits are at your disposal. Anyhow, it is seriously recommended to use pure QML.  The general guideline is this: http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-phone@lists.launchpad.net/msg00140.html
[05:36] <xsacha> bzoltan1: i think he mainly wanted to develop the apps in gtk.
[05:48] <bzoltan1> xsacha: When developing the SDK and the native UI Toolkit we focus 100% on QML. So I think the application developers are better off using the technologies what more likely going to be supported and developed.
[05:48] <xsacha> yep
[06:58] <Pip> So is mobile Ubuntu OS ready for Google Nexus 4?
[09:54] <aquarius> hm. Qt.quit() doesn't actually quit a QML app being run with qmlscene. Do I need to do something different?
[09:55] <chriadam> qmlscene doesn't connect the quit signal to the application quit slot.  qmlviewer used to do this, qmlscene does not.
[09:55] <Ken-Young> I have attempted to install the Ubuntu Phone SDK in a VirtualBox VM.   When I try to run the demo "Currency Converter" app within Qt Creator, I get the error message "Unrecognized OpenGL version", and qmlscene exits after drawing an empty black box.   Any ideas about what is going wrong?
[09:55] <chriadam> short answer: qmlscene is not a "real" runtime.
[09:58] <popey> Ken-Young: have you added the virtualbox guest extensions?
[09:59] <Ken-Young> popey, Oh, no I don't think I have.
[10:04] <aquarius> chriadam, thanks! so, am I right in thinking that if I'm running my app with qmlscene for testing, there is no way to quit it from inside QML?
[10:05] <chriadam> pretty much
[10:05] <chriadam> force a segfault, that usually works ;-)
[10:09] <Ken-Young> popey, Sadly, I still get the same error after adding guest extensions and rebooting.
[10:09]  * aquarius laughs
[10:09] <aquarius> chriadam now goes on my "good but dangerous advice" list ;-)
[10:09] <popey> Ken-Young: you sure they're loaded?
[10:09] <popey> lsmod | grep vboxvideo
[10:09]  * chriadam grins
[10:11] <Ken-Young> popey, It appears to be loaded, judging from the lsmod output.
[10:12] <popey> Ken-Young: if you resize the window, does it redraw the screen at the new resolution?
[10:12] <Ken-Young> poppy, do you mean if I resize the entire VirtualBox window?
[10:14] <Ken-Young> popey,  do you mean if I resize the entire VirtualBox window?
[10:15] <popey> yes
[10:16] <Ken-Young> popey, Yes, resizing the window results in the window being redrawn correctly for the new size.   Switching to and from fullscreen mode works properly too.
[10:17] <popey> ok, so it looks like it could be a bug in qmlscene not recognising that the virtualbox driver is a valid opengl renderer
[10:17] <popey> Ken-Young: i will test it a little later here and confirm
[10:17] <Ken-Young> popey, Thanks very much for your help!
[10:20] <popey> Ken-Young: what version of ubuntu are you using in virtualbox?
[10:21] <Ken-Young> popey, Ubuntu precise (12.04.2 LTS)
[10:22] <popey> ok, just booting up a vbox vm
[10:23] <Ken-Young> popey, I am running a non-PAE kernel, which I guess is nonstandard.
[10:30] <popey> Ken-Young: on the guest or the host?
[10:31] <Ken-Young> popey, Both.
[10:31] <popey> 64-bit?
[10:31] <Ken-Young> Nope, 32 but.
[10:31] <Ken-Young> s/but/bit/
[11:05] <popey> Ken-Young: you followed the guide at developer.ubuntu.com, right?
[11:06] <popey> adding PPAs etc
[11:07] <Ken-Young> popey, I followed the installation guide at on that page, but I don't know what a PPA is.
[11:08] <popey> ok, so you basically pasted all the commands in, yes? starting at http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/ ?
[11:08] <popey> dpm: step one on that page adds a ppa but doesn't install anything...
[11:09] <Ken-Young> popey, Yes, I cut-n-pasted those commands, and they seemed to execute properly.
[11:10] <popey> ok
[11:10] <Ken-Young> popey, One odd think is the guide implies the qt5 executables should have been installed in /opt/qt5, but in fact they ended up in /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/qt5
[11:11] <Ken-Young> s/think/thing/
[11:12] <popey> dpm: i assume this is because in the next step, "Install the Ubuntu SDK preview" it pulls stuff in from both PPAs
[11:14] <dpm> popey, yeah, it's intended to be like that, the steps still work. I just learnt on short notice about the packaging changes during the migration to qt5-proper glitch, so I had no time to change the structure of the page. Nowadays, I could just remove the "Install Qt 5" section and have 'sudo apt-get install ubuntu-sdk' (plus PPA instructions). If I make changes to the page, it needs a new theme deployment, but I made the command-lines configurable, so I
[11:14] <dpm>  can change them on-the-fly
[11:14] <popey> ok
[11:14] <dpm> I'll update the step at some point, but right now the instructions work
[11:16] <popey> yeah ☺
[11:16] <Ken-Young> Things must have basically worked, because I did a fresh install of Ubuntu just prior to downloading the SDK components, and things like Qt Creator and qmlscene are present, and there's no other way they would have been installed, orhter than with the SDK.
[11:21] <dpm> Ken-Young, yes, we made sure the instructions worked before updating them. Glad to hear it all worked for you too!
[11:21] <dpm> Where we're having a bit of trouble is in the migration to the new PPA
[11:22] <dpm> for those people who installed the sdk on release day and then want to migrate to the new packages after we switched from the Qt 5 beta to the Qt 5 release
[11:22] <dpm> but it seems folks are managing to fix it, nevertheless
[11:23] <Ken-Young> dpm, Everything seems to be installed correctly, but I can't run the demo app, because I get the error message "Unrecognized OpenGL version".
[11:24] <dpm> Ken-Young, did you add the virtualbox guest extensions as suggested?
[11:25] <Ken-Young> dpm, Yes, and I rebooted after that.   The problem did not go away.
[11:26] <dpm> Ken-Young, hm, not sure what it could be, then. If no one here can help you figure it out, you might want to file a question on Ask Ubuntu: http://askubuntu.com/questions/ask?tags=mobile,application-development
[11:27] <Ken-Young> dpm,  Thanks, I'll do that.
[12:01] <judgen> Will ubuntu phone install on existing phones or will it be only on new phones?
[12:01] <popey> the touch preview can be installed on existing phones.
[12:13] <judgen> nice
[12:33] <doomlord> can any existing phones output 1080p when plugged into hdmi even if their native display is 1280x800 ..
[12:33] <doomlord> i know some can do this for video - but is this available to the rendering hardware generally (and hence ubuntu phone)
[12:47] <popey> dpm: filed bug 1129061 which is what ken-young was talking about earlier..
[12:47] <popey> dunno if it's a vbox, vbox extensions, compiz or qt issue tbh
[12:52] <dpm> popey, cool, thanks, added a comment too
[12:52] <Sinan___> doomlord: Like Note 2 ?
[12:53] <Sinan___> doomlord: Note 2 has great capabilities, supporting HDMI and USB Host simultaneously
[12:53] <doomlord> interesting
[12:55] <Sinan___> Tons of people have been waiting Ubuntu-Phone :D
[12:56] <Sinan___> I hope it's as good as expected
[13:17] <doomlord> i'm very excited by the prospect!
[13:17] <doomlord> i've just been porting some code to android and thinking what is all this java nonsense for
[13:18] <doomlord> a phone with a propper OS would be amazing!
[13:55] <driotinto> Hello everyone, I am getting a Nexus 4 soon and I am excited by the capability of having it to work as a Ubuntu-Running-PC using the Ubuntu for Android scheme. Anyone have been using it?
[13:55] <k1l_> driotinto: there is actually no info on when and how ubuntu4android will be released.
[13:55] <driotinto> Oh. Ok.
[13:56] <smartboyhw> k1l_, when is 21st Feb
[13:56] <driotinto> k1l_: That is bad news. I hoped to see this early. It seems Canonical is concentrating on Ubuntu for Phone.
[13:56] <smartboyhw> driotinto, k1l_ Ubuntu for phones actually includes Ubuntu for Android
[13:57] <k1l_> i know there were some demos (with the motorola atrix which used the motorola webtop stuff) but seems like its in a state of hold until a manufacturer comes into the game
[13:57] <k1l_> smartboyhw: yes that is kinda true. it includes a ubuntu for ubuntu to be correct :)
[13:57] <driotinto> k1l_: But I don't yet feel like getting rid of my Android OS on phone. I would rather have Android OS running on the phone (for now) and have the option to use the dock to get Ubuntu OS on the big screen.
[13:57] <k1l_> but he wants to stay with android and run a ubuntu when docked
[13:58] <driotinto> Yes.
[13:58] <smartboyhw> k1l_, it can
[13:58] <smartboyhw> k1l_, oh so he wants android
[13:58] <driotinto> It's on the website, http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/android and also you can see it in several youtube videos
[13:59] <k1l_> driotinto: yes, that is still in dev-stage
[13:59] <driotinto> k1l_: Oh, ok. So I guess waiting is all I can do now. Besides, I'd probably have to buy a suitable dock (and it doesn´t seem it is available commercially yet).
[14:00] <driotinto> I hope Ubuntu4Android development is not spoiled by Ubuntu4Phone development.
[14:01] <driotinto> Another question, is the Ubuntu for Phone going to be able to run Android applications from Google Play? I am not expecting it, and this is actually the main reason why I am not willing to give up Android right away...
[14:02] <popey> 13:56:58 < smartboyhw> driotinto, k1l_ Ubuntu for phones actually includes Ubuntu for Android
[14:02] <popey> thats not true
[14:09] <driotinto> Anyway, thanks for wveryone's help. I´ll be monitoring the website for more info on the Ubuntu4Android!
[14:10] <k1l_> i dont think android apps will work on ubuntu-phone
[14:12] <driotinto> k1l_: That is what I thought...
[16:18] <nbf> anyone know if the ubuntu phone alpha release is going to include ubuntu desktop mode support? specifically with the nexus 4
[16:19] <nbf> if so I'm going to buy a nexus 4 to try it out
[16:20] <nbf> I see this in the FAQ: When the phone is docked to a screen you should be able to use the full desktop applications. When they are on the small screen they would need a QML display which might be part of the same application.
[16:20] <nbf> which sounds good but what does "should be able" mean? :)
[16:23] <popey> nbf: the nexus 4 doesn't have a dock, does it?
[16:23] <nbf> it has usb and a slimport (which is basically a displayport, hdmi, vga, etc)
[16:24] <nbf> I'm really hoping the slimport -> displayport adapter comes out soon
[16:24] <nbf> analogix has pictures of it in their docs but I can only find hdmi and vga adapters online
[16:31] <wastrel> nbf: i don't know anything but someone said something about hardware support for the dual mode
[16:58] <mhall119> tick tock, tablet time
[18:01] <uebera||> #Lesenswert: #Microsoft #Office 2013 PC-Bindung in D? #PCWelt http://bit.ly/W61btG; #Golem http://bit.ly/W61ip3; #Heise http://bit.ly/W61kx7
[18:06] <uebera||> Sorry, wrong window ^^;
[19:05] <Akiva-Desktop> What is this "Tick Tock Tablet" time on ubuntu.com?
[19:10] <nOStahl> check on #ubuntu-tablet
[19:35] <ciphoenix> hi
[19:35] <ciphoenix> i'm new to ubuntu phone dev
[19:36] <ciphoenix> wanted to ask how large the required files to start are :)
[19:40] <darthmuffins> required files?
[19:44] <ciphoenix> yes, Qt SDK. i'm on a limited internet plan, need to know how big the files are
[19:45] <mainerror> You could consult apt-cache for that. :)
[19:46] <nOStahl> ciphoenix: local library and coffee shops alleviate limited data plans :)
[19:47] <darthmuffins> Qt sdk full download is ~ 400MB, but that's easily looked up online
[19:48] <mhall119> ciphoenix: apt-get install should tell you the download size
[19:53] <ciphoenix> mainerror: thanks
[19:54] <ciphoenix> nOStahl: i'm from Nigeria. such WIFI hotspots aren't commonplace yet :)
[19:54] <ciphoenix> darthmuffins: thanks :)
[19:55] <darthmuffins> np!
[19:58] <nOStahl> ciphoenix: check your private message
[20:46] <Akiva-Vagabond> wow oh wow, have you guys seen this new filesystem for flash from samsung? It outperforms ext4 on nearly every test!
[20:47] <Akiva-Vagabond> btrfs as well, considering that it for some reason, still is worse than ext4
[20:48] <Akiva-Vagabond> http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_f2fs_benchmarks&num=1
[20:48] <Akiva-Vagabond> I am frankly amazed at how good it performs
[20:50] <Akiva-Vagabond> i mean look at dbench; it is 3 TIMES FASTER THAN EXT4
[20:50] <Akiva-Vagabond> I am wondering now if perhaps ubuntu-phone is thinking of shipping with it.
[20:51] <Akiva-Vagabond> well actually, looking at it now, it fails enough in other benchmarks to equal it out
[20:58] <ciphoenix> heard about it
[20:59] <ciphoenix> shows some promise
[21:08] <ajalkane> Tizen might use it :)
[21:09] <ajalkane> But for a filesystem, I think it might be quite hazardous to use such new tech without very radical and obvious advantages
[21:14] <nOStahl> I hope they call the new flash file system FFS :P
[21:34] <JanC> Akiva-Vagabond forgets to say that F2FS doesn't really sync to disk when requested too  :p
[21:34] <JanC> s/too/to/
[22:43] <mainerror> nOStahl: hah, that'd be an awesome acronym.
[22:44] <nOStahl> lol
[23:53] <mattwj2002> hi guys
[23:53] <mattwj2002> when is the phone stuff coming out?
[23:53] <mattwj2002> 16 hours?
[23:54] <k1l> phone stuff was mentioned for the 21st
[23:54] <mattwj2002> where?
[23:54] <mattwj2002> :O
[23:54] <mattwj2002> oh yeah
[23:54] <mattwj2002> haha
[23:54] <k1l> mattwj2002: one shall read the topic ;p
[23:54] <mattwj2002> I saw that sorry!
[23:55] <mattwj2002> *face palm*
[23:55] <mattwj2002> k1l: can you tell me any more about the tablet?
[23:56] <k1l> nope
[23:56] <mattwj2002> :P
[23:56] <mattwj2002> okay
[23:56] <mattwj2002> bye!