[00:13] <xnox> ubiquity installer didn't get the memo about almost everything transitioning away from gconf
[07:36] <BigWhale> Good Morning
[08:02] <jibel> good morning
[09:13] <robru> good morning, team!!
[09:13] <Laney> hello
[09:14] <robru> how's it going, Laney ?
[09:14] <Laney> good
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> hi Laney, robru!
[09:15] <robru> chrisccoulson, did you have a good breakfast?
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> can i join in with this talking on IRC to people across the table? :)
[09:15] <chrisccoulson> robru, yes, breakfast was good thanks. how was yours?
[09:15] <Laney>  _
[09:15] <Laney> | |__   ___ _   _    __ _ _   _ _   _ ___
[09:15] <Laney> | '_ \ / _ \ | | |  / _` | | | | | | / __|
[09:15] <Laney> | | | |  __/ |_| | | (_| | |_| | |_| \__ \
[09:15] <Laney> |_| |_|\___|\__, |  \__, |\__,_|\__, |___/
[09:15] <Laney>             |___/   |___/       |___/
[09:16] <robru> chrisccoulson, no! go home! Laney and I are having a serious conversation here.
[09:16] <chrisccoulson> lol
[09:16] <Sweetsha1k> Laney: When you do cowsay on a sprint you have to do in real life. So where is your cow costume?
[09:17]  * Laney ebays one
[09:23] <seb128> hey desktopers
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> hi seb128
[09:24]  * chrisccoulson pokes seb128 (literally)
[09:24] <seb128> ouch
[09:24] <xnox> =)))))))))))
[09:24] <chrisccoulson> hi xnox
[09:24]  * xnox is a safe distance away around the corner =)
[09:30] <Sweetsha1k> thinks missing in the canonical office: quadcopters capable of autonomous flight able to pick up a can of Coke at the kitchen and delivering it to the workplace (orders taken via IRC bot obviously).
[09:32] <Laney> xnox: yesterday we were discussing buying these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Zuluu-76330-Vuvuzela-25/dp/B0038DKHKE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361265787&sr=8-1
[09:32] <Laney> you wouldn't be a safe distance away from that
[09:33] <xnox> =)))))))))00
[09:33]  * xnox has nerf guns at home ;-)
[09:33]  * Laney sees that is prime eligible ...
[09:33] <xnox> Anyway, my laptop's desktop is started and managed by upstart user session ;-)
[09:33] <seb128> it's only tuesday, going to be a long week!
[09:34] <seb128> xnox, do you know when you guys plan to email ubuntu-devel@ about that?
[09:34] <seb128> Laney, btw just fwded you the emails about the platform test ppa
[09:34] <xnox> seb128: well stgraber was meant to blog about it on monday?!
[09:34] <Laney> got it
[09:35] <xnox> seb128: I can forward you the email.... it had a gnome-settings-daemon race between upstart & gnome-session which I have fixed.
[09:35] <xnox> seb128: but currently I have gnome-session respawning and failing to spaw compiz, when upstart has already started a compiz.
[09:35] <Sweetsha1k> Laney: see also https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=27727 ...
[09:35] <ubot2> bugs.gentoo.org bug 27727 in Other "Larry can NOT be a Cow." [Trivial,Resolved: wontfix]
[09:36] <SuperMatt> wow, who actually cares about calling it a cow or a bull?
[09:37] <seb128> xnox, please do and Cc Laney on those, he's going to be one of the braves who will play with it this week ;-)
[09:37] <xnox> I am currently blaming /usr/share/gnome/wm-properties/compiz.desktop
[09:37] <xnox> (as that's the only compizy thing I can tell gnome-session is trying to launch.....)
[09:39] <xnox> do you have a desktopy devel mailing list I can email this?!
[09:43] <attente> seb128: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=656565
[09:43] <ubot2> Gnome bug 656565 in general "Signalify (already existing) GtkMenuShell.insert()" [Normal,Resolved: fixed]
[09:47] <xnox> Laney: sent you a mail about upstart user sessions ;-) =)
[09:47] <Laney> good
[09:47] <Laney> i'll try it later
[09:47] <xnox> awesome.
[09:47] <Laney> you can watch how badly it breaks in my xmonad session :-)
[09:48] <xnox> well you'd want to write an upstart job to spawn xmonad first. On par as the compiz job, currently shipped in the upstart package in the ppa I linked.
[09:49] <Laney> every session will need to do this?
[09:51] <xnox> Laney: well. we should come up with a plan such that we don't need to.
[09:51] <xnox> Laney: on the other-hand compiz & window decorators are crashy and we do want upstart respawing those.
[09:53] <xnox> Laney: upstart works by itself just fine and stgraber simply glued Xsession.d and a minimal amount of upstart jobs to launch a default unity desktop session with login/out compatability.
[09:55] <Laney> right then
[09:55] <Laney> i got the email, ta
[10:04] <seb128> attente, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/indicator-application/+bug/608219
[10:04] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 608219 in gtk+2.0 (Ubuntu) "Submenus not added when done so with Glade" [Low,Fix released]
[10:13] <SuperMatt> Does anyone think the unity messaging menu would be a good place for a nagios monitor?
[10:19] <xnox> SuperMatt: I would love that!
[10:19] <xnox> SuperMatt: after all hostgroups is just like spam mailboxes ;-)
[10:22] <SuperMatt> y'see, the problem is that nagstamon is broken in 13.04 due to the indicator whitelist being removed
[10:22] <SuperMatt> so I've suggested on a bug report for nagstamon that the unity indicator api be used, but also allow the option of dropping it in to the messaging menu
[10:46] <desrt> seb128: looks like upstream 3.6 is not working with our themes...
[10:46] <seb128> desrt, how so?
[10:47] <desrt> i just did a build of upstream 3.6.1 (from the tag) and it has the same issue
[10:47] <desrt> i'm checking our patchset now
[10:48] <desrt> git_cssimage_load_when_needed.patch is the only one touching css stuff and i guess it's unrelated?
[10:49] <seb128> desrt, right, that's recent and a backport from 3.8
[10:49] <seb128> that's a performance improvement thing
[10:49] <desrt> well, that's probably not in then
[10:49] <desrt> since 3.8 is broken :)
[10:49] <desrt> i'm checking 3.6.4 now
[10:50] <desrt> maybe there is a fix since 3.6 only on the 3.6 branch
[10:50] <seb128> desrt, did you build using the same libdir sysconfdir etc?
[10:50] <desrt> no
[10:50] <seb128> well it needs to find the engine on disk
[10:50] <seb128> the module dir might be different
[10:50] <desrt> ya... obviously :p
[10:50]  * desrt symlinked the things
[10:50] <seb128> k
[10:50] <seb128> dunno then
[10:50] <desrt> everything is fine except this menu issue
[10:50] <seb128> weird
[10:51] <seb128> can we blame Will?
[10:51] <seb128> ;-)
[10:51] <desrt> we can blame will for anything, really
[10:51] <desrt> if he's awake...
[10:51] <desrt> attente: hi!
[10:51]  * ogra_ blames will
[10:51] <desrt> yup :)
[10:51] <ogra_> who is will btw ? :)
[10:51]  * didrocks blames as well
[10:51] <desrt> 3.6.4 not working :(
[10:51]  * desrt mumbles
[10:51] <seb128> ogra_, attente, one of the most recent desktop hires
[10:51] <ogra_> ah, cool
[10:52]  * ogra_ doesnt blame will then .... puppy bonus 
[11:16] <xnox> do you have a stash of usb keyboards?
[11:16] <xnox> (onboard is not yet present in initramfs)
[11:17] <Laney> there's some down here
[11:22] <xnox> =)
[11:42] <honshu> hi.. is this the  channel for ubuntu-papercut team ??
[12:00] <czajkowski> can I just point out for the record TheMuso has the patience of a saint!
[12:00] <czajkowski> honshu: yes
[12:01] <ogra_> seb128, oh, i forgot to tell you, the dailies for nx7 work again since 20130218.1 in case people need to do fresh installs
[12:03] <seb128> ogra_, \o/
[12:03] <seb128> ogra_, xnox told us this morning, thanks!
[12:03] <ogra_> compiz dies often though ... seems its related to a11y
[12:04] <ogra_> (every time i focus a test input field the doecorationas (and focus handling) vanishes
[12:04] <ogra_> *text
[12:07] <xnox> TheMuso, i think the latest pyatspi upload started to try to talk to SessionManager over dbus, which is not started when we are in Ubiquity.
[12:07] <xnox> Do you happen to know something about that?
[12:07]  * xnox ponders if we should experiment and disable a11y to see if that is a culprit.
[12:08] <ogra_> xnox, tricky if you want to test onboard
[12:08] <ogra_> xnox, it doesnt happen with kbd and mouse attached
[12:09] <ogra_> i also see a lot of:
[12:09] <ogra_> (oem-config:1138): Gtk-WARNING **: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with width 846 and height -39
[12:09] <ogra_> in oem-config.log (i guess thats the reason for the off screen drawing of the windows)
[12:10] <xnox> ogra_: nah, we see those in normal ubiquity as well. I was given tips by folks from Cambridge to make gtk warnings critical such that they crash the app and then go one by one fixing them.
[12:10] <ogra_> k
[12:11] <xnox> it's mostly to do with with width-for-height management in gtk3 and us failing to provide those calls for some (custom) widgets.
[12:11] <ogra_> ah
[12:19] <davmor2> Hey guys when I start up my lenovo y580 with raring I here the drums but the screen is blank turns out the contrast is on minimum is there anything I can do to get more info for you guys for a bug if there isn't one?
[12:22] <ogra_> s/contrast/backlight/ ?
[12:26] <TheMuso> xnox: pyatspi is only needed by orca et al, do you mean at-spi2-registryd?
[12:27] <TheMuso> xnox: I checked the latest daily as of yesterday in virtualbox, and Orca worked properly when enabled at the try/install ubuntu screen.
[12:27] <xnox> TheMuso:  yeah, i think at-spi2-registryd is talking on dbus more than it did before.
[12:30] <TheMuso> xnox: Nothing jumps out at me in the git log as to why this may be the case... Is this causing problems in Ubiquity?
[12:32] <ogra_> TheMuso, in oem-config ... we switched to compiz recently and it dies if you focus an input text field
[12:32] <xnox> yeah, since we are not staring / running full session and don't have SessionManager dbus name running, hence it tries talking to it and times out.
[12:32] <xnox> it may or may not be related to other input problems we are seeing on the nexus.
[12:32] <xnox> (and that uses a11y by default for touch input)
[12:34] <ogra_> the crashing compiz is definitely not related to input issues of the nx7
[12:35] <ogra_> you dont have it crashing the decorator plugin on the desktop ...
[12:36] <ogra_> (even if it dies it still has all elements in place, they just dont react ... while in ubiquity/oem-config the whole of compiz vanishes completely)
[12:36] <TheMuso> Ok, so what if we rip out the code in ubiquity-dm that calls at-spi2-registryd, and let it get brought up via GTK's use of libatk-bridge?
[12:36] <TheMuso> Has anybody tested to see if that makes any difference?
[12:36] <xnox> I can try that.
[12:37] <TheMuso> Certainly worth trying...
[12:37] <xnox> (the point of ubiquity-dm launching all deamons by itself, instead of using activation, is such that it can kill them upon exit and clean up after itself)
[12:37] <xnox> so while it can help identify the cause, we will also need to think about cleaning up.
[12:37] <TheMuso> I understand that, but if at-spi2 stays around for the desktop session, surely tat isn't a big deal...
[12:38] <ogra_> xnox, btw, do we plan to possibly use upstart session management for that in the future ?
[12:38] <TheMuso> Well the funny thing is, I suspect that if GTk was cleaning up properly as it normally should, at-spi2-registry d probably would get shut down.
[12:38] <xnox> =)
[12:38] <TheMuso> But, due to the crazy mainloop bug, GTK3 in raring and quantal is curently patched such that GTk accessibility stuff is not properly cleaned up...
[12:39] <xnox> TheMuso: before or after we reverted the "improvement" where it does it at each main_loop exit?!
[12:39] <xnox> =))))
[12:39] <xnox> there is an api call to clean it up? maybe we should just try calling that at the end.
[12:39] <TheMuso> xnox: Bug 1056300
[12:39] <ubot2> Launchpad bug 1056300 in GTK+ "If a GTK application quits the main loop and restarts it again, accessibility is lost." [Medium,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1056300
[12:40] <TheMuso> Is the bug I am talking about, and we patched it out in GTk so what a11y would continue to work in ubiquity.
[12:40] <TheMuso> s/what/that/
[12:40] <xnox> yeah, i remember that one.
[12:41] <TheMuso> So if that weren't patched out, I suspect at-spi2 would be shut down.
[12:41] <TheMuso> But even then I'm not sure.
[12:43] <TheMuso> At the very least, libatk-bridge may load at-spi2 with different command-line arguments to what ubiquity-dm uses, so it may just require chanignt eh command-line arguments in ubiquity-dm in the end.
[12:43] <TheMuso> changing the even
[12:44] <xnox> ogra_: upstart user-sessions is not production ready yet, but yeah it would make ubiquity-dm so much nicer.
[12:44] <ogra_> yeah
[12:44] <ogra_> well, we did plan u-u-s for 13.04, no ?
[12:45] <ogra_> at least for starting desktop components on demand
[12:45] <xnox> ogra_: 14.04 production 13.04 upstart should be in the archive with user-session support and some DE launching capability (optional)
[12:45] <ogra_> yeah
[12:45] <xnox> if we are good we do want it by default, but there are quirks to work out.
[12:46] <ogra_> well, i wouldnt do it by default yet for everything ... but i guess ubiquity-dm would make a great testbed
[12:46] <xnox> e.g. my ssh agent didn't get the correct environment and we should figure out the story of how to override/not-override converted stuff for xdg-autostart desktop files, Xsession.d snippets and other pieces in *-session launchers.
[12:47] <xnox> ogra_: i reflashed root, but I want to keep my userdata partition but ac100 tarball is shouting at me.
[12:48] <xnox> any way to skip tarball installer now? =)
[12:48] <ogra_> shouting ? how ?
[12:49] <ogra_> well, the ac100 side of the installer is pretty sctrict, it uses a builtin md5 sum from the initrd to make sure bootimg and tarball match
[12:49] <xnox> dropping me into initramfs shell saying that it can't find root.img - did you use the right image?
[12:49] <xnox> well the tarball is not there any more ;-) i want it to just boot.
[12:49] <ogra_> mount --bind /dev /root/dev
[12:49] <ogra_> chroot /root
[12:50] <ogra_> mount -t proc proc /proc
[12:50] <ogra_> update-initramfs -u
[12:50] <ogra_> (assuming there is no ac100-tarball-installer instaled in your rootfs)
[12:50] <xnox> awesome thanks.
[12:50] <ogra_> (else remove that package)
[12:51]  * xnox really did not want to recompile packages I just compiled for testing ubiquity.
[13:49] <jdstrand> mterry: I didn't actually do that merge
[13:49] <mterry> jdstrand, I realized after talking with Robert.  His fault, and he fixed it up.
[13:49] <mterry> jdstrand, thanks
[13:50] <jdstrand> np
[14:13] <pitti> seb128: bonjour monsieur, comment se fait le sprint?
[14:18] <seb128> pitti, salut, le sprint est bien, on travaille et on s'amuse également
[14:18] <pitti> seb128: I couldn't help grin this morning about
[14:19] <pitti> systemd | 44-10ubuntu1 | raring/universe | source
[14:19] <seb128> ;-)
[14:19] <pitti> but it's great to at least have the libraries now
[14:19] <pitti> I hope we can make logind work somehow
[14:19] <Laney> I heard that someone called it a franken-init ;-)
[14:20] <pitti> well, that's what it is really
[14:20] <pitti> "wash my hands, but don't make me wet"
[14:20] <pitti> but yeah, if we can get the stuff through salami tactics only, I'll take it :)
[14:21] <seb128> pitti, slangasek said he would look at it, but he has tons to do as always, so not sure about the when
[14:21] <seb128> he said that logind is mostly a matter of figuring what to do with cgroups
[14:21]  * pitti currently has lots of fun blowing the dust off pygobject 2.28
[15:16] <seb128> mterry, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/harfbuzz/+bug/1130165
[15:16] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1130165 in harfbuzz (Ubuntu) "[MIR] harfbuzz" [Undecided,New]
[15:36] <czajkowski> has anyone else on raring had any issues with mumble, you need to restart it twice for it to connect to the server?
[15:36] <jbicha> seb128: what do you think about gnome-games 3.8 for raring?
[15:47] <seb128> jbicha, does it require gtk 3.8?
[15:48] <jbicha> seb128: no
[15:49] <jbicha> the big change is that each game is a separate source package now
[15:49] <seb128> jbicha, what changed? I don't have a strong opinion on games, if there are no new depends feel free to update
[15:52] <xnox> jbicha: well it's split into many packages now, isn't it? and did sudoku get my python3 patch merged?
[15:55] <jbicha> xnox: no your bug is still open and GNOME is freezing now so unless we rush it in, it will need to wait until next time
[16:00] <sil2100> desrt: hi!
[16:24] <cyphermox> czajkowski: yeah, same for me, the first time it just seems kind of stuck somewhere
[16:24] <cyphermox> lalaland
[16:46] <teemperor> mterry: ping
[16:47] <mterry> teemperor, hello
[16:48] <teemperor> mterry: sorry for interrupting you, ancell forwarded me to you as i wanted to get informatins whether we should mlock in our lightdm greeters ( i found out we don't use it atm in elementary OS)
[16:49] <mterry> teemperor, ah
[16:49] <mterry> teemperor, probably.  Security team recommends it
[16:49] <mterry> teemperor, *however*
[16:50] <mterry> teemperor, we did a naive mlockall in lightdm in 12.10.  And it made the lightdm process balloon in memory.  We fixed that in raring.  But we continue to mlockall in unity-greeter, because we figure that since the greeter is short-lived, it's fine
[16:50] <mterry> teemperor, you may be OK with it as well, but just wanted you to be aware that your greeter will consume a lot more memory after this change
[16:51] <mterry> teemperor, you can also use more selective secure memory via libgcrypt or some such
[16:51] <mterry> teemperor, but if you're OK with large memory usage, a simple mlockall at the beginning of the greeter is good enough
[16:54] <czajkowski> cyphermox: I find I start it up, kill it straigh away and then re launch it then it connects no issues
[16:54] <teemperor> mterry: ok, thank you for that nice overview over the problem!
[16:54] <cyphermox> yeah
[16:57] <mterry> teemperor, yw!
[17:11] <desrt> sil2100: hi
[17:12] <desrt> sil2100: how can i help?
[17:14] <sil2100> desrt: I already asked on gnome-hackers, thanks!
[17:26] <desrt> seb128: http://thehawksmoor.com/locations/guildhall
[17:39] <teemperor> mterry: another question, is it possible that there is no vala-binding for mlockall in precise?
[17:42] <TheMuso> teemperor: A quick glance at the unity-greeter vala source shows me that a psudo binding for mlockall etc was manually added pointing to the correct header file. If you look at the unity-greeter source, have a look in src/fixes.vapi.
[17:43] <teemperor> TheMuso: ah, ok, i was searching for a vapi on the top of the branch-directory
[17:43] <teemperor> thank you
[17:43] <TheMuso> np.
[17:44] <mterry> teemperor, yeah I don't think so.  See unity-greeter for an example of manually adding the vapi
[17:45] <mterry> oh, TheMuso got it first  :)
[18:09] <mterry> attente, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/1031449
[18:09] <ubot2> Ubuntu bug 1031449 in rhythmbox (Ubuntu Quantal) "rhythmbox leaking memory" [Undecided,Confirmed]
[18:35] <jasoncwarner_> hey all...
[18:35] <didrocks> hey jasoncwarner_, how are you?
[18:35] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks good, except for the whole being in constant pain bit... ;)
[18:36] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: you? and everyone else there?
[18:36] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: getting well as you can see on g+ :) in addition, we are getting a sunny London weather!
[18:36] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: hope your back is fixing gradually
[18:37] <jasoncwarner_> didrocks: yeah...kenvandine is a jerk for posting the good food on g+ :/
[18:37] <kenvandine> jasoncwarner_, yo yo
[18:37] <didrocks> jasoncwarner_: did you see my post? We keep a piece for you :p
[18:37] <desrt> jasoncwarner_: hey.  what's up?
[18:37] <kenvandine> jasoncwarner_, you know we miss you!
[18:37] <jasoncwarner_> kenvandine: :)
[18:37] <jasoncwarner_> hey desrt
[18:37] <desrt> jasoncwarner_: going here on thursday: http://thehawksmoor.com/locations/guildhall
[18:37] <kenvandine> jasoncwarner_, we might go for another round of burgers tonight
[18:38] <kenvandine> tower 42!
[18:38] <desrt> kenvandine: not likely :)
[18:38] <kenvandine> bah
[18:38]  * desrt wants to go to the theatre, you bums
[18:38] <kenvandine> desrt, loser!
[18:38] <jasoncwarner_> desrt: I'm holding down the fort in Canada for you, robru and attente
[18:38] <kenvandine> desrt, you're so artsy
[18:38] <desrt> jasoncwarner_: :)
[18:38] <desrt> kenvandine: i could practically be a designer with this scarf and how i wear it around inside and stuff
[18:38] <kenvandine> haha
[18:38] <jasoncwarner_> desrt: v-neck, scarf and glasses without lenses
[18:39]  * desrt tosses it for flair
[18:39] <desrt> v-neck!
[18:39]  * desrt gets on that
[18:39] <desrt> holy shit
[18:39] <desrt> i can't see!!!
[18:40] <desrt> attente has strong glasses, it turns out
[19:08]  * didrocks waves good evening