[09:53] <AlanBell> 6 and a bit hours \o/
[09:53] <AlanBell> woot \o/
[09:53] <AlanBell> anyone know what the excitement is about?
[09:53] <jussi> AlanBell: a tablet maybe? :D
[09:54] <AlanBell> paracetamol for humans?
[10:02] <jussi> AlanBell: hahaha
[11:10] <DJones> Nah, it'll be an announcement that Ubuntu will be powering the new computers in the abbotoirs producing Soylent Green to put an and to the horsemeat scandal
[11:10] <DJones> s/and/end/
[11:12] <DJones> -> Soylent green tablets (Or maybe Soylent aubergine tablets)
[12:44] <jussi> DJones: hahaha
[14:28] <IdleOne> htc.com is ~2 minutes faster
[14:28] <IdleOne> make that 1 minute
[15:20] <IdleOne> OMG OMG OMG 39 minutes!!!!!
[15:41] <IdleOne> OMG OMG OMG 18 minutes!!!!!
[15:47] <k1l> IdleOne: i cant stand it. tell me whats gonna happen, nao!!11
[15:47] <IdleOne> k1l: Canonical is going to announce a merger with HTC and kick out Microsoft!!!
[15:47] <IdleOne> 100% made up ^
[15:48] <k1l> :)
[15:49] <k1l> you are sure its 100% made up? :)
[15:49] <IdleOne> never know :P
[15:53] <genii-around> I wonder if the HTC 8x could run Ubuntu after that...
[15:56] <IdleOne> it will be renamed the HTCanonical One
[15:57] <k1l> i see, IdleOne read all the conspiracy theories from the interwebz
[15:58] <IdleOne> I read nothing.
[16:23] <hkall> so… anyone know if there will be Ubuntu phone images built for Galaxy S2 (i9100)?
[16:24] <Calinou> since you used "…", no.
[16:24] <Calinou> :>
[16:24] <Calinou> only OS X users dare to use …
[16:29] <k1l> hkall: the specialists sit in #ubuntu-phone ; but i dont think that every phone will get images to flash. its mentioned that google nexus and nexus4 are supported from the start
[16:38] <Noorideen> k1l, :)
[20:14] <Tatuus> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5_4fXQcxFRs
[20:46] <zykotick9> so ubuntu did announce a tablet...  so now there's ubunu=fail on both the phone and table fronts.  freedom = ftw, ubuntu = no-so-much.
[20:50] <k1l> i dont really get what you are trying to say
[20:51] <zykotick9> k1l: i'd say canonical is trying to become Apple 2.0, basically.  i won't trust my data to canonical (or anyone else for that matter).  it's sad, i used to like ubuntu so much... now... no so much ;)
[20:52] <zykotick9> this move to mobile/tablets, is just another front in the "providing advertisements" campaign
[20:53] <zykotick9> and "data about users to advertisers"
[20:53] <k1l> ok, so where exactly is ubuntu touching your freedom?
[20:53] <zykotick9> k1l: ubuntu NOW, guarantees it's users don't have it...
[20:56] <k1l> i dont see it that worst case szenario you are trying to draw here
[20:57] <k1l> i know you are relating to the rms spyware issue. but first: do you use a rms-holy-freedom-distribution yourself? even debian is not on the bright side from rms. second: you heard about the changes that are meant to be introduced for 13.04 on the desktop?
[20:58] <zykotick9> canoncial though: ubuntu, ubuntuone, phone and now tablet.  have provided a software eco-system, that doesn't respect user's rights, and is basically just spyware - thats primary objective is financial benefit for it's owner(s).  "ubuntu" has become a sad distortion of what that word is suppose to mean.
[20:59] <zykotick9> the change that isn't a change at all - according to slashdot the other day.  OR, the KDE dev that says ubuntu-phone is a bait-n-switch tactic - also covered on slashdot in the last few days
[21:00] <k1l> erm. you know that "the owner" paid alot until now and i dont see he will get his money back anytime soon :)
[21:00] <k1l> so dont come with the profite thingy
[21:00] <zykotick9> good for him, bad for users.
[21:01] <zykotick9> but who cares about users... not canonical.
[21:01] <k1l> good for him that he paid everyone to get free ubuntu cds shipped the last years. yes
[21:01] <k1l> zykotick9: c'mon
[21:01] <k1l> that is lowest niveau of discussing
[21:02] <zykotick9> k1l: ubuntu's distain for users is pretty well documented...  starting from 10.04's moving the buttons, and "won't fix" as reply to bugs.
[21:03] <k1l> zykotick9: comon
[21:03] <zykotick9> but ubuntu isn't a "community" project - it's a propritary one that happens to have a big naive free (as in cost) labour force
[21:04] <k1l> you can put 99% of "the users" critics into the trash
[21:04] <zykotick9> yes as "depressed hipsters"
[21:05] <k1l> i know the critics about the windowbuttons move, or the unity as standard desktop introduction: "nobody can work with that"
[21:05] <k1l> sry, that is no constructive critics
[21:06] <k1l> i see alot of "gnome2 fanboys" hating on ubuntu. but that is the wrong target
[21:07] <zykotick9> yes, the "target" audience appears to be "people who don't know better" and are willing to give canonical they're money, or personal data - either will do.
[21:08] <k1l> zykotick9: i see noone giving canonical money
[21:09] <k1l> most ubuntu critics state that they want linux to become more marketshare. but they refuse to take changes. that is not working
[21:09] <zykotick9> k1l: really?  how do you get around without your eyes open?  ubuntuone storage/ubuntuone music
[21:09] <k1l> zykotick9: aha. so canonical nearly stealing money from the user
[21:10] <k1l> zykotick9: what is wrong with ubuntuone music or storage?
[21:10] <zykotick9> oh, the services (though bad) probably isn't anything compared to handing user data over to 3rd parties like facebook/twitter/amazon/etc.
[21:12] <k1l> so your critics is: windowbuttons to the left, ubuntuone (music and storage) and the unity search
[21:12] <k1l> ever thought of the unity desktop with the global menue and the window buttons on the right?
[21:12] <k1l> that would ruin the whole concept, dont you think?
[21:13] <zykotick9> k1l: my "cristism" is that ubuntu WAS a cool user-friendly-debian that i could recommend to anyone.  now ubuntu is a spyware/corporate/data-mining machine...
[21:13] <k1l> aha, here we go
[21:14] <k1l> first: you know even debian is not the freedom distribution?
[21:14] <zykotick9> k1l: wrong.  though FSF and DFSG don't always align.
[21:14] <k1l> and the reason you didnt recommend debian was, it wasnt cool and didnt have the service as ubuntu.
[21:15] <zykotick9> debian?  what?  ubuntu WAS a user-friendly-debian.  i haven't mentioned debian.
[21:15] <k1l> user-friednly-debian mentions debian
[21:17] <k1l> personally im not using the amazon lense myself and i would recommend to make a opt-in for personal-data related searches. but there is no way for me to hop onto the shitstorm that is going on
[21:18] <k1l> and i see where the benefits of a global search could get.
[21:19] <k1l> i mean most critics you mentioned here was nothing but bias: window buttons, ubuntuone,...
[21:19] <zykotick9> when the community/freesoftware is gone from ubuntu - there really isn't a reason for all ubuntu users to just switch to Apples.  they probably should.
[21:22] <k1l> zykotick9: ok so you say users should stick to apple or http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html
[21:23] <zykotick9> k1l: i'm saying there really isn't a difference NOW between ubuntu and OSX.  but maybe OSX is technically superior - and if that's your only argument, why not use what's best?
[21:23] <TheLordOfTime> you're forgetting something about OSX
[21:23] <TheLordOfTime> its closed source
[21:23] <TheLordOfTime> as well, diagnosing issues with it is nigh impossible unless you've hacked away at the restrictions on OSX
[21:23] <zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: so is ubuntu... or much of it, these days.
[21:23] <k1l> zykotick9: im not saying that. i was just summarizing what  you are saysing
[21:24] <zykotick9> i hate OSX for the record ;)
[21:24] <TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, show me evidence of that and i'll listen, otherwise,  the MAJORITY of Ubuntu minus drivers/kernel is open source
[21:24] <k1l> zykotick9: where is closed source?
[21:24] <TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, because in Ubuntu, we can modify the base of the OS, the kernel, as we want.
[21:24] <TheLordOfTime> thereby allowing free customization, we can't do that in OSX
[21:24] <zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: steam ring any bells.  that appears to be the major issue in #ubuntu theses days
[21:24] <TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, steam's a beta program
[21:24] <TheLordOfTime> and its got its own channel
[21:24] <TheLordOfTime> i send steam users there
[21:24] <TheLordOfTime> steam's also not TECHNICALLY part of the repos last i checked
[21:24] <zykotick9> customization and ubuntu don't belong in the same sentence ;)
[21:25] <TheLordOfTime> unless its hiding
[21:25] <k1l> zykotick9: so steam is ubuntus closed source?
[21:25] <TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, saying Steam is a majority of ubuntu
[21:25] <zykotick9> k1l: of course - it's non-free software?
[21:25] <TheLordOfTime> and then SAYING ubuntu is closed source...
[21:25] <k1l> TheLordOfTime: they have their own repo
[21:25] <TheLordOfTime> that's just pure blasphemy and you should be slapped
[21:25] <k1l> zykotick9: gotcha. so debian is out of the businee too
[21:25] <zykotick9> ok i'll slap myself... not.
[21:25] <TheLordOfTime> k1l, my point exactly, its not technically part of Ubuntu itself, its third-party software not included in ubuntu, therefore you can't call Ubuntu closed source b ecause of it.
[21:26] <popey> +1
[21:26] <popey> the contents of the cd is not closed
[21:26] <zykotick9> popey: ahhh, i don't think that's true...
[21:26] <k1l> zykotick9: first of all that steam thing is not true. and second you just told some minutes ago that debian is ok to have that closed and unfree stuff
[21:26] <popey> zykotick9: what's not closed?
[21:26] <popey> er, what's closed on the cd
[21:26] <zykotick9> popey: aren't there drivers for nvidia/amd on there these days?
[21:26] <k1l> zykotick9: so as i saied earlier: you are just hopping on the shitstorm
[21:27] <popey> we've always shipped hardware enablement components like nvidia drivers and firmware for network cards
[21:27] <popey> that's not changed
[21:27] <zykotick9> popey: so, it's NOT free/open... what was your point?
[21:28] <popey> 21:23:48 < zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: so is ubuntu... or much of it, these days.
[21:28] <popey> "much of it"
[21:28] <TheLordOfTime> LIES
[21:28] <popey> is wildly inaccurate
[21:28] <TheLordOfTime> BLASPHEMY
[21:28] <TheLordOfTime> your statement is lies and blasphemy there, zykotick9
[21:28] <zykotick9> k1l: hopping on the shitstorm?  i was a ubuntu users for a couple of years
[21:28] <TheLordOfTime> as popey is pointing out.
[21:28] <zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: BLASPHEM is a religious statement, is ubuntu your religion?  my goodness...
[21:29] <TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, you could call Ubuntu my religion, i'm EXTREMELY biased towards it and argue for it against the  nay-sayers on other lionux forums and blogs.
[21:29] <k1l> zykotick9: most of your critics is inaccurate in comparison to debian (which you mentioned to be the good one)
[21:29] <TheLordOfTime> :p
[21:30] <zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: oh man.  that's so sad.  you worship a company... you might as well worship at the alter of apple (no difference)
[21:30] <k1l> zykotick9: there are points to argue about, like i said myself (opt-in, etc). but just beeing picky in ubuntu's case and say "nah that is all free" in debian case is not right, imho
[21:31] <zykotick9> k1l: debian "main" is 100% libre/free software... yes there is contrib/non-free (which is a choice users can make, to deny there own freedom if they wish)
[21:31] <TheLordOfTime> zykotick9, i'm going to ignore your last statement for the sake of this channel, i don't want to expose it to a hellstorm
[21:31] <TheLordOfTime> having said that, your statement about "most of ubuntu" being closed source is just WRONG
[21:31] <TheLordOfTime> and you need to reexamine your statements with a fine toothed comb.
[21:31] <zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: you're right "most" is certainly NOT the case...
[21:31] <TheLordOfTime> failure to comply is illogical, as is your initial statement.
[21:32] <k1l> zykotick9: there are not so many users in the world who thing that this definition of free is the first rule to an operating system
[21:32] <zykotick9> k1l: and that's sad.
[21:32] <k1l> that is the reason linux never was attractive to the mainstream
[21:32] <k1l> until ubuntu started
[21:32] <zykotick9> who cares if it's mainstream or not?
[21:33] <k1l> zykotick9: who cares?
[21:33] <zykotick9> oh canoncial/ubuntu does - sorry.
[21:33] <k1l> the ones who want companys to produce drivers and programs for linux aswell
[21:33] <zykotick9> more $$$
[21:33] <TheLordOfTime> and now you're arguing that canonical and ubuntu are the same individual entity.
[21:33] <zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: they are...
[21:33] <k1l> there are alot of those users who would like to step back from the closed systems
[21:34] <zykotick9> k1l: not ubuntu users, they don't know any better.
[21:34] <TheLordOfTime> right... my initial conclusion that you are insane is now confirmed, and i'm going to go do something productive.  like bugs triage.
[21:35] <k1l> zykotick9: you forget one point in your argumentation: besides the big names like rms etc not every coder that contributes to free software gets paid for it if there wasnt some "evil companys" paing them
[21:35] <k1l> zykotick9: and i would stop refering to ubuntu users as they all were just plain dumb.
[21:36] <k1l> that is very arrogant from your side
[21:36] <popey> lets refrain from personal attacks
[21:36] <zykotick9> k1l: i have 0 problems with free-software people getting paid.  but if your only goal is $$$ then you'll do things VERY differently.  see canonical as example, sell your user data to 3rd parties.
[21:36] <popey> this channel (like all in the ubuntu namespace) expects everyone to adhere to our code of conduct
[21:36] <k1l> zykotick9: does it sell userdata?
[21:36] <zykotick9> popey: TheLordOfTime is gone.  and i'm pretty sure i didn't sink to that level ;)
[21:37] <zykotick9> k1l: how do you think it gets money from amazon exactly?
[21:37] <popey> the same way anyone with an amazon affiliate scheme does
[21:37] <popey> by tagging urls and people buying stuff
[21:38] <k1l> zykotick9: and i didnt say i want the money. i said i want people to become proper drivers from the manufacturer and software
[21:38] <k1l> zykotick9: that only happens if the manufacturer sees a market in linux and thinks he can make money with selling devices to this market.
[21:38] <zykotick9> k1l: i hear ya.  drivers are certainly a good thing (even closed source drivers) - reason i boycott AMD/ATI and only purchase nvidia.
[21:38] <k1l> zykotick9: so like the rhythmbox guys did just before?
[21:39] <zykotick9> k1l: the rhythmbox things was another "not good" move my ubuntu
[21:40] <k1l> zykotick9: there are alot of software still just programmed for windows. so many users still have to use this. that is because linux is still not a market to target
[21:40] <k1l> zykotick9: ok, but rhyhtmbox is ok by getting amazon money?
[21:40] <k1l> zykotick9: you see the bias you are having=
[21:40] <k1l> ?
[21:41] <zykotick9> k1l: they wrote the software, ubuntu tried to steal the money.  you don't see issue with that?  (i'm NOT saying rhythmbox is right in it either!)
[21:41] <k1l> zykotick9: and: rhythmbox made more money with the % they got from ubuntus amazon ref links because they got the standard music player than before
[21:42] <k1l> zykotick9: you are wrong
[21:42] <IdleOne> I seriously doubt there was any intentional theft involved.
[21:42] <k1l> you cant steal money that is not present
[21:42] <zykotick9> IdleOne: as if you stuck your nose into with - with a voice of reason ;)
[21:42] <popey> Uhm.
[21:42] <k1l> if they had taken another programm as music player rhythmbox wouldnt got any money.
[21:42] <zykotick9> s/with/this/
[21:43] <popey> It was Banshee which we changed the referal link for, not Rhythmbox
[21:43] <k1l> popey: oh sry. i got this wrong
[21:43] <zykotick9> Banshee is mono-crap.  a good move ubuntu dumped that.
[21:44] <IdleOne> Why would it be ok for the app devs to make money from the app but not the distribution platform of said app?
[21:44] <popey> We didn't "dump" it, it's still in the repository.
[21:44] <popey> Anyway, this is all very entertaining if you like being trolled, so I'm going to wander off. Cheerio.
[21:44] <zykotick9> IdleOne: well, the app devs wrong teh software - including the pay scheme.  what did the distro do?  use that software - that's it.
[21:44] <k1l> zykotick9: im out of this discussion since you still couldnt convince me that your state of view is nothing else then biased.
[21:45] <zykotick9> k1l: we are all biased.  you, and everyone here, has a pro-ubuntu bias, mine's just different then yours.
[21:45] <IdleOne> Ubuntu is a major distributor of all these apps. I don't think banshee or any other app could make nearly as much money without the existence of Ubuntu. Canonical being a major distributor should be able to make a % of that money.
[21:46] <zykotick9> and does ubuntu have the right to determine that %?  'cause in that case, they decided unilaterally.
[21:46] <IdleOne> They do.
[21:47] <IdleOne> like any contract, things get negotiated
[21:47] <IdleOne> assuming that Canonical took the money and didn't pay intentionally is wrong.
[21:48] <zykotick9> there was no negotiation in that case?  ubuntu just changed to code.  which they have the right to do legally (with free software) but morally?
[21:49] <IdleOne> the licence removes the morality in my opinion, the dev knows full well what rights he is giving up. Again, I seriously doubt that Canonical did anything wrong intentionally and aiui they rectified that situation, popey can probably conform this.
[21:50] <popey> ye olde news
[21:50] <zykotick9> k1l: thanks for the discussion.  take care all.  i doubt i'll return ;)  so in closing, ubuntu has become an immoral distro.
[21:50] <popey> google knows the answer to this
[21:50] <zykotick9> IdleOne: take care!
[21:50] <IdleOne> Do you really think Mark needs the money?
[21:50] <popey> trolololo
[21:50] <k1l> i dont agree with the closing
[21:51] <IdleOne> it was a baby move
[21:51] <k1l> (just for the log)
[21:51] <k1l> (like i got to know anything you do on irc is for the log) ;p
[21:53] <IdleOne> people have this idea that licences and contracts exist to protect the rights you have. IMHO they enumerate the rights you are giving up.
[21:53] <hggdh> rights each side is giving up. Not necessarily one-sided
[21:53] <IdleOne> right.
[22:23] <genii-around> The comprotract