[09:53] 6 and a bit hours \o/ [09:53] woot \o/ [09:53] anyone know what the excitement is about? [09:53] AlanBell: a tablet maybe? :D [09:54] paracetamol for humans? [10:02] AlanBell: hahaha [11:10] Nah, it'll be an announcement that Ubuntu will be powering the new computers in the abbotoirs producing Soylent Green to put an and to the horsemeat scandal [11:10] s/and/end/ [11:12] -> Soylent green tablets (Or maybe Soylent aubergine tablets) [12:44] DJones: hahaha [14:28] htc.com is ~2 minutes faster [14:28] make that 1 minute [15:20] OMG OMG OMG 39 minutes!!!!! [15:41] OMG OMG OMG 18 minutes!!!!! [15:47] IdleOne: i cant stand it. tell me whats gonna happen, nao!!11 [15:47] k1l: Canonical is going to announce a merger with HTC and kick out Microsoft!!! [15:47] 100% made up ^ [15:48] :) [15:49] you are sure its 100% made up? :) [15:49] never know :P [15:53] I wonder if the HTC 8x could run Ubuntu after that... [15:56] it will be renamed the HTCanonical One [15:57] i see, IdleOne read all the conspiracy theories from the interwebz [15:58] I read nothing. [16:23] so… anyone know if there will be Ubuntu phone images built for Galaxy S2 (i9100)? [16:24] since you used "…", no. [16:24] :> [16:24] only OS X users dare to use … [16:29] hkall: the specialists sit in #ubuntu-phone ; but i dont think that every phone will get images to flash. its mentioned that google nexus and nexus4 are supported from the start [16:38] k1l, :) [20:14] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5_4fXQcxFRs [20:46] so ubuntu did announce a tablet... so now there's ubunu=fail on both the phone and table fronts. freedom = ftw, ubuntu = no-so-much. [20:50] i dont really get what you are trying to say [20:51] k1l: i'd say canonical is trying to become Apple 2.0, basically. i won't trust my data to canonical (or anyone else for that matter). it's sad, i used to like ubuntu so much... now... no so much ;) [20:52] this move to mobile/tablets, is just another front in the "providing advertisements" campaign [20:53] and "data about users to advertisers" [20:53] ok, so where exactly is ubuntu touching your freedom? [20:53] k1l: ubuntu NOW, guarantees it's users don't have it... [20:56] i dont see it that worst case szenario you are trying to draw here [20:57] i know you are relating to the rms spyware issue. but first: do you use a rms-holy-freedom-distribution yourself? even debian is not on the bright side from rms. second: you heard about the changes that are meant to be introduced for 13.04 on the desktop? [20:58] canoncial though: ubuntu, ubuntuone, phone and now tablet. have provided a software eco-system, that doesn't respect user's rights, and is basically just spyware - thats primary objective is financial benefit for it's owner(s). "ubuntu" has become a sad distortion of what that word is suppose to mean. [20:59] the change that isn't a change at all - according to slashdot the other day. OR, the KDE dev that says ubuntu-phone is a bait-n-switch tactic - also covered on slashdot in the last few days [21:00] erm. you know that "the owner" paid alot until now and i dont see he will get his money back anytime soon :) [21:00] so dont come with the profite thingy [21:00] good for him, bad for users. [21:01] but who cares about users... not canonical. [21:01] good for him that he paid everyone to get free ubuntu cds shipped the last years. yes [21:01] zykotick9: c'mon [21:01] that is lowest niveau of discussing [21:02] k1l: ubuntu's distain for users is pretty well documented... starting from 10.04's moving the buttons, and "won't fix" as reply to bugs. [21:03] zykotick9: comon [21:03] but ubuntu isn't a "community" project - it's a propritary one that happens to have a big naive free (as in cost) labour force [21:04] you can put 99% of "the users" critics into the trash [21:04] yes as "depressed hipsters" [21:05] i know the critics about the windowbuttons move, or the unity as standard desktop introduction: "nobody can work with that" [21:05] sry, that is no constructive critics [21:06] i see alot of "gnome2 fanboys" hating on ubuntu. but that is the wrong target [21:07] yes, the "target" audience appears to be "people who don't know better" and are willing to give canonical they're money, or personal data - either will do. [21:08] zykotick9: i see noone giving canonical money [21:09] most ubuntu critics state that they want linux to become more marketshare. but they refuse to take changes. that is not working [21:09] k1l: really? how do you get around without your eyes open? ubuntuone storage/ubuntuone music [21:09] zykotick9: aha. so canonical nearly stealing money from the user [21:10] zykotick9: what is wrong with ubuntuone music or storage? [21:10] oh, the services (though bad) probably isn't anything compared to handing user data over to 3rd parties like facebook/twitter/amazon/etc. [21:12] so your critics is: windowbuttons to the left, ubuntuone (music and storage) and the unity search [21:12] ever thought of the unity desktop with the global menue and the window buttons on the right? [21:12] that would ruin the whole concept, dont you think? [21:13] k1l: my "cristism" is that ubuntu WAS a cool user-friendly-debian that i could recommend to anyone. now ubuntu is a spyware/corporate/data-mining machine... [21:13] aha, here we go [21:14] first: you know even debian is not the freedom distribution? [21:14] k1l: wrong. though FSF and DFSG don't always align. [21:14] and the reason you didnt recommend debian was, it wasnt cool and didnt have the service as ubuntu. [21:15] debian? what? ubuntu WAS a user-friendly-debian. i haven't mentioned debian. [21:15] user-friednly-debian mentions debian [21:17] personally im not using the amazon lense myself and i would recommend to make a opt-in for personal-data related searches. but there is no way for me to hop onto the shitstorm that is going on [21:18] and i see where the benefits of a global search could get. [21:19] i mean most critics you mentioned here was nothing but bias: window buttons, ubuntuone,... [21:19] when the community/freesoftware is gone from ubuntu - there really isn't a reason for all ubuntu users to just switch to Apples. they probably should. [21:22] zykotick9: ok so you say users should stick to apple or http://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html [21:23] k1l: i'm saying there really isn't a difference NOW between ubuntu and OSX. but maybe OSX is technically superior - and if that's your only argument, why not use what's best? [21:23] you're forgetting something about OSX [21:23] its closed source [21:23] as well, diagnosing issues with it is nigh impossible unless you've hacked away at the restrictions on OSX [21:23] TheLordOfTime: so is ubuntu... or much of it, these days. [21:23] zykotick9: im not saying that. i was just summarizing what you are saysing [21:24] i hate OSX for the record ;) [21:24] zykotick9, show me evidence of that and i'll listen, otherwise, the MAJORITY of Ubuntu minus drivers/kernel is open source [21:24] zykotick9: where is closed source? [21:24] zykotick9, because in Ubuntu, we can modify the base of the OS, the kernel, as we want. [21:24] thereby allowing free customization, we can't do that in OSX [21:24] TheLordOfTime: steam ring any bells. that appears to be the major issue in #ubuntu theses days [21:24] zykotick9, steam's a beta program [21:24] and its got its own channel [21:24] i send steam users there [21:24] steam's also not TECHNICALLY part of the repos last i checked [21:24] customization and ubuntu don't belong in the same sentence ;) [21:25] unless its hiding [21:25] zykotick9: so steam is ubuntus closed source? [21:25] zykotick9, saying Steam is a majority of ubuntu [21:25] k1l: of course - it's non-free software? [21:25] and then SAYING ubuntu is closed source... [21:25] TheLordOfTime: they have their own repo [21:25] that's just pure blasphemy and you should be slapped [21:25] zykotick9: gotcha. so debian is out of the businee too [21:25] ok i'll slap myself... not. [21:25] k1l, my point exactly, its not technically part of Ubuntu itself, its third-party software not included in ubuntu, therefore you can't call Ubuntu closed source b ecause of it. [21:26] +1 [21:26] the contents of the cd is not closed [21:26] popey: ahhh, i don't think that's true... [21:26] zykotick9: first of all that steam thing is not true. and second you just told some minutes ago that debian is ok to have that closed and unfree stuff [21:26] zykotick9: what's not closed? [21:26] er, what's closed on the cd [21:26] popey: aren't there drivers for nvidia/amd on there these days? [21:26] zykotick9: so as i saied earlier: you are just hopping on the shitstorm [21:27] we've always shipped hardware enablement components like nvidia drivers and firmware for network cards [21:27] that's not changed [21:27] popey: so, it's NOT free/open... what was your point? [21:28] 21:23:48 < zykotick9> TheLordOfTime: so is ubuntu... or much of it, these days. [21:28] "much of it" [21:28] LIES [21:28] is wildly inaccurate [21:28] BLASPHEMY [21:28] your statement is lies and blasphemy there, zykotick9 [21:28] k1l: hopping on the shitstorm? i was a ubuntu users for a couple of years [21:28] as popey is pointing out. [21:28] TheLordOfTime: BLASPHEM is a religious statement, is ubuntu your religion? my goodness... [21:29] zykotick9, you could call Ubuntu my religion, i'm EXTREMELY biased towards it and argue for it against the nay-sayers on other lionux forums and blogs. [21:29] zykotick9: most of your critics is inaccurate in comparison to debian (which you mentioned to be the good one) [21:29] :p [21:30] TheLordOfTime: oh man. that's so sad. you worship a company... you might as well worship at the alter of apple (no difference) [21:30] zykotick9: there are points to argue about, like i said myself (opt-in, etc). but just beeing picky in ubuntu's case and say "nah that is all free" in debian case is not right, imho [21:31] k1l: debian "main" is 100% libre/free software... yes there is contrib/non-free (which is a choice users can make, to deny there own freedom if they wish) [21:31] zykotick9, i'm going to ignore your last statement for the sake of this channel, i don't want to expose it to a hellstorm [21:31] having said that, your statement about "most of ubuntu" being closed source is just WRONG [21:31] and you need to reexamine your statements with a fine toothed comb. [21:31] TheLordOfTime: you're right "most" is certainly NOT the case... [21:31] failure to comply is illogical, as is your initial statement. [21:32] zykotick9: there are not so many users in the world who thing that this definition of free is the first rule to an operating system [21:32] k1l: and that's sad. [21:32] that is the reason linux never was attractive to the mainstream [21:32] until ubuntu started [21:32] who cares if it's mainstream or not? [21:33] zykotick9: who cares? [21:33] oh canoncial/ubuntu does - sorry. [21:33] the ones who want companys to produce drivers and programs for linux aswell [21:33] more $$$ [21:33] and now you're arguing that canonical and ubuntu are the same individual entity. [21:33] TheLordOfTime: they are... [21:33] there are alot of those users who would like to step back from the closed systems [21:34] k1l: not ubuntu users, they don't know any better. [21:34] right... my initial conclusion that you are insane is now confirmed, and i'm going to go do something productive. like bugs triage. [21:35] zykotick9: you forget one point in your argumentation: besides the big names like rms etc not every coder that contributes to free software gets paid for it if there wasnt some "evil companys" paing them [21:35] zykotick9: and i would stop refering to ubuntu users as they all were just plain dumb. [21:36] that is very arrogant from your side [21:36] lets refrain from personal attacks [21:36] k1l: i have 0 problems with free-software people getting paid. but if your only goal is $$$ then you'll do things VERY differently. see canonical as example, sell your user data to 3rd parties. [21:36] this channel (like all in the ubuntu namespace) expects everyone to adhere to our code of conduct [21:36] zykotick9: does it sell userdata? [21:36] popey: TheLordOfTime is gone. and i'm pretty sure i didn't sink to that level ;) [21:37] k1l: how do you think it gets money from amazon exactly? [21:37] the same way anyone with an amazon affiliate scheme does [21:37] by tagging urls and people buying stuff [21:38] zykotick9: and i didnt say i want the money. i said i want people to become proper drivers from the manufacturer and software [21:38] zykotick9: that only happens if the manufacturer sees a market in linux and thinks he can make money with selling devices to this market. [21:38] k1l: i hear ya. drivers are certainly a good thing (even closed source drivers) - reason i boycott AMD/ATI and only purchase nvidia. [21:38] zykotick9: so like the rhythmbox guys did just before? [21:39] k1l: the rhythmbox things was another "not good" move my ubuntu [21:40] zykotick9: there are alot of software still just programmed for windows. so many users still have to use this. that is because linux is still not a market to target [21:40] zykotick9: ok, but rhyhtmbox is ok by getting amazon money? [21:40] zykotick9: you see the bias you are having= [21:40] ? [21:41] k1l: they wrote the software, ubuntu tried to steal the money. you don't see issue with that? (i'm NOT saying rhythmbox is right in it either!) [21:41] zykotick9: and: rhythmbox made more money with the % they got from ubuntus amazon ref links because they got the standard music player than before [21:42] zykotick9: you are wrong [21:42] I seriously doubt there was any intentional theft involved. [21:42] you cant steal money that is not present [21:42] IdleOne: as if you stuck your nose into with - with a voice of reason ;) [21:42] Uhm. [21:42] if they had taken another programm as music player rhythmbox wouldnt got any money. [21:42] s/with/this/ [21:43] It was Banshee which we changed the referal link for, not Rhythmbox [21:43] popey: oh sry. i got this wrong [21:43] Banshee is mono-crap. a good move ubuntu dumped that. [21:44] Why would it be ok for the app devs to make money from the app but not the distribution platform of said app? [21:44] We didn't "dump" it, it's still in the repository. [21:44] Anyway, this is all very entertaining if you like being trolled, so I'm going to wander off. Cheerio. [21:44] IdleOne: well, the app devs wrong teh software - including the pay scheme. what did the distro do? use that software - that's it. [21:44] zykotick9: im out of this discussion since you still couldnt convince me that your state of view is nothing else then biased. [21:45] k1l: we are all biased. you, and everyone here, has a pro-ubuntu bias, mine's just different then yours. [21:45] Ubuntu is a major distributor of all these apps. I don't think banshee or any other app could make nearly as much money without the existence of Ubuntu. Canonical being a major distributor should be able to make a % of that money. [21:46] and does ubuntu have the right to determine that %? 'cause in that case, they decided unilaterally. [21:46] They do. [21:47] like any contract, things get negotiated [21:47] assuming that Canonical took the money and didn't pay intentionally is wrong. [21:48] there was no negotiation in that case? ubuntu just changed to code. which they have the right to do legally (with free software) but morally? [21:49] the licence removes the morality in my opinion, the dev knows full well what rights he is giving up. Again, I seriously doubt that Canonical did anything wrong intentionally and aiui they rectified that situation, popey can probably conform this. [21:50] ye olde news [21:50] k1l: thanks for the discussion. take care all. i doubt i'll return ;) so in closing, ubuntu has become an immoral distro. [21:50] google knows the answer to this [21:50] IdleOne: take care! [21:50] Do you really think Mark needs the money? [21:50] trolololo [21:50] i dont agree with the closing [21:51] it was a baby move [21:51] (just for the log) [21:51] (like i got to know anything you do on irc is for the log) ;p [21:53] people have this idea that licences and contracts exist to protect the rights you have. IMHO they enumerate the rights you are giving up. [21:53] rights each side is giving up. Not necessarily one-sided [21:53] right. [22:23] The comprotract