[00:09] <sayd> any sneak preview pics?
[00:10] <IdleOne> probably not till the countdown is up
[13:02] <ubuntubhoy> with under 3 hours on the clock, I thought it might have been busier in here
[13:03] <smartboyhw> lol
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> need to get in early to get the best seats
[13:04] <smartboyhw> ubuntubhoy, there aren't any *seats*
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> In my imagination there are
[13:04] <ubuntubhoy> big comfy ones down at the front
[15:09] <GuidoPallemans> less than one hour to go...
[15:09] <mcmullins> are they going to have a google hangout, or anything like that again?
[15:24] <nOStahl> its going to be a 20 dollar tablet with dual core and 2 gigs of ram with ubuntu on it
[15:25] <IdleOne> heh, wishful thinking?
[15:26] <nOStahl> with HTC subsidizing
[15:26] <smartboyhw> LOL
[15:27] <mainerror> This list seems to be outdated, eh? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/TabletList
[15:28] <wdnz> gah. I can't wait another 30 minutes to find out.
[15:29] <IdleOne> you waited 23.5 hrs, you're going to give up now when you can see the finish line?
[15:30] <mcmullins> Don't worry, once you find out, you'll have to wait another year before you can buy it :P
[15:30] <nOStahl> leave him IdleOne he's down and out!
[15:31]  * genii-around makes a pot of coffee and hands out the mugs
[15:31] <wdnz> cheers
[15:31]  * mcmullins cheers
[15:31] <nOStahl> speaking of that… I better go make myself an Americano before I get a headache from lack of caffeine
[15:34] <mainerror> Tick, tock. :D
[15:35] <mainerror> Soon.
[15:39] <genii-around> I imagine it will have Ubuntu for Mobile
[15:43] <nOStahl> uTouch :P
[15:44] <mcmullins> genii-around, I hope it has the mobile version
[15:44] <DJones> When I left home this morning, HTC.com and Ubuntu.com's countdown timers where matching, now htc's is 3 minutes faster, I guess they're going for an early unveiling
[15:44] <mcmullins> I'd rather have a complete rethink of the unity interface, than have 3 different Unities that we have to try to smash together
[15:47] <genii-around> I figure it will be a 10" version of the Flyer, with probably a quad core
[15:48] <nOStahl> the timers match up perfectly DJones
[15:48] <IdleOne> depends who's looking at the clock
[15:49] <DJones> nOStahl: I see a 3 minute difference
[15:49] <nOStahl> what part of the world
[15:49] <IdleOne> 1 minute diff here
[15:50] <wdnz> 0.2 milisecond diff here.
[15:50] <genii-around> From here the timers sync up, HTC 1 minute fast
[15:50] <nOStahl> are they going to announce anything in here too?
[15:52] <IdleOne> probably/maybe
[15:54] <guest1__> what i thought the htc timer was for the htc one ...
[15:54] <AlanBell> HTC have done their bit already, nothing to do with us
[15:54]  * vibhav bites nails 
[15:54] <nOStahl> 5 min!
[15:54] <vibhav> Time is going slow.
[15:55] <vibhav> Very slow.
[15:57] <nOStahl> and everyone's quiet now lol starting to stare at their screens
[15:57] <blow> 2 min
[15:59] <nOStahl> !! it ended and said just kidding!
[15:59] <blow> does anyone want to talk about mickey mouse while we wait?
[15:59] <blow> 30 seconds
[15:59] <blow> 20
[15:59] <blow> 15
[15:59] <blow> 10
[15:59] <wdnz> 10
[15:59] <blow> 5
[15:59] <blow> 4
[15:59] <blow> 3
[16:00] <blow> 2
[16:00] <blow> 7
[16:00] <blow> 1
[16:00] <blow> k=lol
[16:00] <mainerror> nice
[16:00] <wdnz> loadddinnnggg
[16:00] <vibhav> It's spinning
[16:00] <mainerror> Of course the servers are going down.
[16:00] <blow> and then it hangs...
[16:00] <mcmullins> aaaaand server crash
[16:00] <mcmullins> 503
[16:00] <blow> and then it hangs...
[16:00] <blow> and hangs...
[16:00] <vibhav> And it's down
[16:01] <netcurli> impossible.. ubuntu server doesn't crash :P
[16:01] <vibhav> Wait, it's up
[16:01] <genii-around> Hehe
[16:01] <mainerror> netcurli: Ubuntu didn't crash but the webserver. :)
[16:01] <mcmullins> you think they would have expected this from the Phone announcement >_<
[16:01] <blow> should i reload the page?
[16:01] <AlanBell> if you left the timer spinning it would do a refresh after 30 seconds
[16:01] <blow> hmm maybe i should wait...
[16:01] <genii-around> blow: Probably not
[16:01] <wdnz> s..should I refresh?
[16:02] <blow> wdnz i have just done that...
[16:02] <IdleOne> htc.com didn't crash
[16:02] <vibhav> Heh
[16:02] <mcmullins> push F5 as quick as you can
[16:02] <nOStahl> hah i got a 503 error
[16:02] <mcmullins> acutally scratch that
[16:02] <charis> The HTC media event has passed without mention of anything Ubuntu. This rumour is therefore squashed.
[16:02] <mcmullins> loop a curl
[16:02] <vibhav> Indeed
[16:02] <netcurli> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/19/4004336/ubuntu-touch-developer-preview-download-nexus-tablets
[16:02] <genii-around> The servers are probably being hammered already, refreshing it just will make it worse
[16:03] <mosimo> http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet
[16:04] <mosimo> working, but slow
[16:04] <vibhav> 503 :(
[16:04] <mosimo> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1
[16:04] <mosimo> that just hityoutube too
[16:04] <nOStahl> I got video of it crashing to 503 error heh
[16:05] <blow> www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablets
[16:05] <blow> no s
[16:05] <blow> www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet
[16:06] <nOStahl> lol i don't think ubuntu has experienced this much traffic before lol
[16:06] <blow> haha
[16:06] <mosimo> and this isnt even the release for it
[16:06] <blow> nOStahl well, its the biggest channel here at freenode
[16:06] <mosimo> just the announcement
[16:06] <IdleOne> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h384z7Ph0gU&hd=1
[16:06] <mosimo> Find out when it’s here
[16:06] <mosimo> If you’re not in the mobile industry, but you’re as excited as we are about Ubuntu on tablets, we can alert you by email when the first device is released.
[16:07] <ptl> hi
[16:07] <ptl> will the new tablet interface be available to the nexus 7?
[16:07] <mosimo> probably yea
[16:08] <k1l> is there something like the code released? or is it just an announcment? (like for the -phone)
[16:08] <waspinator> lol video looks like apple ad
[16:08] <mosimo> just annoucement
[16:08] <mosimo> phone source is in 2 days
[16:08] <mosimo> probably tablet later on
[16:09] <mainerror> You know, that's quite impressive.
[16:11] <genii-around> Meh. That was... anti-climactic
[16:11] <IdleOne> isn't it always
[16:11] <vibhav> Okay
[16:12] <waspinator> side stage? looks like windows snap
[16:12] <ptl> phone source is in 2 days -> just ordered a nexus 4 :D
[16:12] <ptl> just for that
[16:12] <vibhav> This is gorgeous
[16:15] <AlanBell> so is this a good excuse to get a nexus 10?
[16:15] <nOStahl> did you guys see that at end of video! the phone dock into a laptop shell
[16:15] <nOStahl> err a tablet shell
[16:16] <nOStahl> !!!
[16:16] <nOStahl> just want i've been wanting
[16:16] <waspinator> that's just a possibility. nexus 4/10 doesn't do that
[16:16] <mosimo> asus padfone thingy does though
[16:16] <Kroach> what the hell was a Windows window doing on Ubuntu in the end part of the tablet video?
[16:16] <mosimo> thin client
[16:17] <not_technical> glad i just got a nexus 7.  will definitely try this out, before getting attached to android... :)
[16:18] <mosimo> well you're going to be waiting a bit for the tablet version
[16:18] <AlanBell> is it me, or are all the pictures and videos showing the tablet in landscape orientation?
[16:18] <waspinator> thin client isn't ready yet for regular users is it?
[16:18] <AlanBell> and all the phone stuff in portrait?
[16:19] <AlanBell> waspinator: thin client is fine if you like that sort of thing
[16:19] <AlanBell> rdp is mostly a solved problem
[16:19] <mosimo> http://www.ubuntu.com/static/u/img/devices/tablet-home-portrait.jpg
[16:19] <mosimo> portrait tablet :P
[16:19] <AlanBell> thanks mosimo
[16:19] <waspinator> but I mean there is no GUI to say do: "connect to my windows computer and integrate all its apps into ubuntu"
[16:19] <flintser> ubuntu tablet and phone, musthave(tm)
[16:20] <AlanBell> also a portrait welcome screen on the ubuntu.com homepage
[16:20] <waspinator> you still need a sysadmin to do it for you right?
[16:20] <AlanBell> waspinator: if your windows computer is running the rdp server stuff then you can use remmina to view them
[16:21] <waspinator> ya but that looks ugly. I mean having word in the unity launcher
[16:21] <AlanBell> I think you need special stuff on the windows side to do individual application remoting
[16:21] <waspinator> make it seamless
[16:21] <waspinator> so it's not ready for end users yet... too bad
[16:21] <AlanBell> yeah, windows is not ready for end users
[16:22] <AlanBell> ;)
[16:22] <nOStahl> with all this, theres going to be a hipster movement away from apple to using ubuntu I fear :P
[16:22] <AlanBell> they will get there one day perhaps
[16:22] <mainerror> I think there's something I don't understand about YouTube. That video was viewed 301 times but it got 565 thumbs-up and 5 thumbs-down. How's that even possible? :D
[16:23] <AlanBell> mainerror: youtube bug, all videos stop at 301 for ages
[16:23] <waspinator> lol. well windows runs word pretty well. ideally I would swtich all my pcs to ubuntu and just have a windows 'server' running somewhere hosting the apps I still need.
[16:23] <mainerror> AlanBell: for real?
[16:23] <auc> youtube caches some of that data :) it will be updated eventually
[16:23] <AlanBell> mainerror: http://www.seroundtable.com/youtube-301-views-15347.html
[16:23] <rewarp> mainerror: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkhgagvrjI
[16:23] <mainerror> wow, I'm slow on those things ._.
[16:24] <rewarp> I only know because I follow the numberphile channel on YouTube.
[16:24] <mosimo> its not a bug. its intentional
[16:24] <waspinator> I think it's kinda false advertising to show word running so seamlessly on the tablet though. since it's such a promoted feature they should get that to work asap
[16:24] <mosimo> they do it and manually check videos to make sure the views are legit
[16:24] <mosimo> when they are the counter continues
[16:24] <mosimo> when approved rather*
[16:25] <AlanBell> waspinator: it will work fine like that, the tablet side shouldn't have a problem with it, you just have to run citrix terminal server on the windows side
[16:25] <mosimo> run xenapp to have application only instead of fulldesktop like in the video too
[16:25] <mosimo> or similar
[16:26] <waspinator> at prohibitive costs I'm sue
[16:26] <AlanBell> waspinator: sure, but it will be standard when Windows is ready for end users
[16:27] <waspinator> right ok. I'm not sure windows is going to be eager to put itself out of business
[16:27] <mosimo> microsoft aren't the ones doing the only programs to allow you to do it
[16:28] <mosimo> citrix, vmware
[16:28] <waspinator> ya but that's the only way it'll become standard
[16:28] <flintser> AlanBell: citrix costs, i bet noone wants to run paid software to get word on ubuntu :)
[16:28] <nOStahl> why do you need word btw
[16:28] <waspinator> word is just an example
[16:29] <nOStahl> I have several offices all setup with libreoffice and they get along just fine
[16:29] <waspinator> mine would kill me
[16:29] <AlanBell> I have no idea why you would want to do it either
[16:29] <waspinator> mark thinks its a good idea
[16:29] <AlanBell> in the demo Excel does not appear in the launcher
[16:29] <mosimo> i'd like it
[16:29] <mosimo> protip: video isnt a live demo
[16:30] <AlanBell> yeah, I know
[16:31] <mosimo> i've got many windows apps that i'd like to be running on it
[16:31] <mosimo> so running it thin client style would be nice for me
[16:31] <mosimo> im the sole it guy at my work and always carrying round my nexus 7 with my
[16:32] <AlanBell> I like the side shelf thing
[16:32] <ubuntubhoy> I think it looks fantastic
[16:32] <mosimo> have been considering getting a microsoft surface pro
[16:32]  * AlanBell ponders buying a nexus 10
[16:32] <waspinator> looks like a copy of windows snap
[16:32] <ubuntubhoy> I also want it on my netbook over a desktop install if thats possible
[16:32] <z2s8> Where can we download it please?
[16:32] <mosimo> cant yet
[16:32] <AlanBell> z2s8: thursday
[16:32] <z2s8> Thx
[16:33] <mosimo> that's phone source
[16:34] <netcurli> according to theverge, the Touch Developer Preview will also include the tablet interface
[16:34] <AlanBell> I would be inclined to believe that as it is an embargoed article and not a rushed one after the announcement
[16:35] <waspinator> magic edges are similar to windows too
[16:36] <waspinator> I wonder what service they'll use for voice recognition
[16:37] <waspinator> anyone think that QML will be what ubuntu desktop is built on soon?
[16:39] <mosimo> ill still run xfce on my laptop
[16:39] <qengho> Good to know!
[16:41] <AlanBell> waspinator: I would think that is very probable
[16:41] <mosimo> it wouldnt suprise me if they did
[16:41] <waspinator> is that what gives the fluidity? I'd love my desktop to be that fluid
[16:42] <mosimo> would need a lot of tweaking to adapt it for desktop with proper multitasking
[16:44] <M4rtinK> so no hardware ? :)
[16:44] <waspinator> nexus 4/7/10 for now
[16:44] <M4rtinK> let me paraphrase an internet meme: "HW or it didn't happen" :)
[16:45] <M4rtinK> there are quite a lot of more or less working tablet UIs (Nemo, Cordia, Plasma Active, Ubuntu Tablet, ...)
[16:46] <M4rtinK> but no device you can order online with one of those installed
[16:46] <waspinator> same could be said for pretty much anything linux
[16:46] <waspinator> besides android
[16:47] <M4rtinK> well, it is much easier to install a Linux distro on a PC
[16:48] <M4rtinK> quite a bit harder on embedded devices with the lack of standardization & many binary blobs
[16:48] <waspinator> maybe that's the problem. make linux easy to install on phones and tablets
[16:48] <M4rtinK> yep, that's also a solution
[16:49] <M4rtinK> but the announcement seems to be (again!) targeted on manufacturers
[16:50] <M4rtinK> or are there already some images one can install on some COTS tablet ?
[16:51] <waspinator> images will come out for the nexus line on the 21st
[16:51] <AlanBell> it was a countdown to a press release, the real stuff is on the 21st
[16:52] <M4rtinK> waspinator: did they confirm they will also release tablet images ?
[16:53] <M4rtinK> well, probably yes :)
[16:53] <M4rtinK> it doesn't seem to be that different
[16:54] <waspinator> not sure, but OMG says so
[16:55] <M4rtinK> I really hope they don't make some fundamental OS-level design mistake
[16:56] <Abhijit> hello
[16:56] <Abhijit> congrats to canonical team and ubuntu team for such nice work.
[16:56] <Abhijit> :-)
[16:56] <Abhijit> looking forward to hear product launch.
[16:56] <M4rtinK> which unfortunately happens quite often for mobile OSes
[16:57] <Abhijit> i am talking about ubuntu\
[16:57] <Abhijit> not all mobile ossssss
[16:59] <M4rtinK> I was reffering to: 17:55 <M4rtinK> I really hope they don't make some fundamental OS-level design mistake
[17:00] <Abhijit> ok
[17:04] <humanbeing> So why did they design the desktop-Unity like a touch-interface?
[17:07] <waspinator> desktop unity is probably just a stopgap before they move everything to qml
[17:08] <AlanBell> wonder what the side shelf looks like in portrait mode
[17:08] <Abhijit> is ubuntu sdk available for other linux distro?
[17:08] <ubuntubhoy> AlanBell: probably crap - also does it switch to portrait ?
[17:09] <waspinator> maybe it moves to the bottom and makes the phone bit landscape
[17:09] <AlanBell> dunno, there are some shots of it portrait
[17:10] <AlanBell> as far as I am aware nobody has seen the phone change orientation, it is all portrait
[17:10] <humanbeing> waspinator: this would be cool. You could easily develope one programm for all platforms
[17:11] <humanbeing> *devices
[17:12] <waspinator> I think that's their plan
[17:26]  * wdnz is away (leaving)
[17:34] <mcmullins> So.. anyone else surprised by mono-develop?
[17:34] <mosimo> what about it?
[17:35] <mcmullins> It's interesting that Ubuntu is attempting to support native windows code
[17:35] <mosimo> what's monodevelop got to do with ubuntu?
[17:35] <waspinator> wait is mono-develop part of the SDK?
[17:35] <mcmullins> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/monodevelop/
[17:36] <mosimo> oh
[17:36] <mosimo> nothing wrong with that
[17:36] <mosimo> its just another language
[17:36] <waspinator> oh I thought they were building their own VS/xcode using mono-develop
[17:36] <mcmullins> 2 languages
[17:37] <waspinator> they really should build their own IDE
[17:38] <mcmullins> Seems like they're relying a lot on QtCreator
[17:38] <waspinator> ya maybe they should tweak it and rebrand it as ubuntu development studio or something
[17:39] <waspinator> like so many companies do with eclipse
[17:46] <nOStahl> wish eclipse had git-flow plugin
[17:47] <nOStahl> i use Aptana Studio 3 (web development tweaked version of eclipse)
[17:48] <PTAlisPT__> Hello! Could someone tell me what exacty is needed to run ubuntu on a tablet?
[17:49] <waspinator> a nexus 7/10
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> I mean, not an Asus one
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> Yeah, but those are not that cheap
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> And their hardware could be better
[17:49] <waspinator> they have a pretty good price-perfomance ratio
[17:49] <PTAlisPT__> I've seen some quad core tablets with 2 gb of ram for 200eur
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> And that is what really makes the thing interesting
[17:50] <waspinator> wait for the nexus 7v2 in may
[17:50] <Tm_T> PTAlisPT__: like which one?
[17:50] <waspinator> should be that price range
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> Like these Onda v972 Quad Ramos w30 Quad Nova 10 Quad FreeLander PD80 Vogue Quad ICOO ICOU10GT Quad PiPO MAX M9 Quad
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> The Quad part is not needed
[17:50] <PTAlisPT__> That was a list I made
[17:51] <PTAlisPT__> I think the PiPo has great quality
[17:51] <PTAlisPT__> But it is only on presale
[17:51] <PTAlisPT__> The ramos is very high quality too
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> Some of them look suspicious, I mean, they may bee a piece of chineese crap
[17:52] <waspinator> nexus 7 is only $200USD
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> But some are really damn good!
[17:52] <waspinator> thats less than 200E
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> But it is only 7"
[17:52] <PTAlisPT__> I would like to have a 10"
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> And 2gb of ram our more, quad core processor and Gpu 2d/3d acceleration
[17:53] <waspinator> probably going to have to wait for a while longer
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> (For the mali-400 MP4 or the powervr sg)
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> :-(
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> *sgx
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> sgx 540 I think
[17:53] <waspinator> or save up for the nexus10
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> That's really sad
[17:53] <PTAlisPT__> Yeah
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> Does the nexus 7 have 3d acceleration»?
[17:54] <waspinator> yes. nvidia tegra
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> Oh, good
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> When running ubuntu, of course
[17:54] <waspinator> yes
[17:54] <PTAlisPT__> But it's still 7"...
[17:55] <PTAlisPT__> I think the ubuntu is really good and gives support to a LOT of things...
[17:55] <PTAlisPT__> If this would be one of those things...
[19:06] <blitz> is there a faq
[19:07] <Paddy_NI> Is Ubuntu For Phone/Tablet in any way the "Linux for Tablets" that I have been waiting for...
[19:08] <Paddy_NI> Can I fire up a terminal and apt-get install whatever
[19:10] <Paddy_NI> I have also been wondering where the "Ubuntu Image for Nexus 7" fits in with all this?
[19:13] <AlanBell> blitz: there are frequently asked questions, but no frequently answered ones yet, probably a bit more info on thursday
[19:13] <AlanBell> Paddy_NI: I guess if it flips from phone to tablet to pc then yes, stuff will be apt-gettable
[19:14] <AlanBell> the side shelf stuff running phone code is probably what they need a different display server for
[19:14] <Paddy_NI> awesome.. I want this stuff so badly
[20:00] <jelatta> if Ubuntu Touch uses android device drivers, will it be fairly simple to port to other tablets, I own a Transformer Pad TF300
[20:02] <NullVoxPopuli> so excited for ubuntu on tablets :-)
[20:02] <Paddy_NI> :-D
[20:02] <NullVoxPopuli> I'm gonna get the next version of the nexus 10 when it comes out in like... forever from now
[20:02] <NullVoxPopuli> >_<
[20:02] <bkc_> jelatta: TF300 already runs ubuntu desktop iirc
[20:03] <jelatta> ubuntu desktop yes, I want to get my hands on ubuntu for tablets :)
[20:03] <Paddy_NI> Is Ubuntu For Tablets both ARM and Intel x86_64?
[20:03] <bkc_> yes
[20:04] <Paddy_NI> Cool
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I see the place is booming :)
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is an image ready for download yet?
[20:04] <bkc_> nope
[20:04] <AlanBell> no, thursday maybe
[20:04] <Paddy_NI> Thursday
[20:04] <bkc_> release is 25-28th
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I want to throw this on my thinkpad convertable tablet.
[20:04] <Akiva-Thinkpad> if you say its x86 ready :P
[20:05] <AlanBell> Mobile World Congress is 25-28th
[20:05] <AlanBell> release of some source is 21st
[20:05] <Paddy_NI> I wonder where the Ubuntu Desktop image for Nexus 7 fits in with all this.. and if the Nexus 7 will have Ubuntu for Tablets
[20:05] <AlanBell> my guess is that it won't be x86 from day 1
[20:06] <AlanBell> huh, they had a conference call about it today
[20:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> is there a tube of any of this up?
[20:07] <Akiva-Thinkpad> of good ol shuttles promoting the thing?
[20:08] <Paddy_NI> yes
[20:08] <Paddy_NI> Visit ubuntu.com :-)
[20:08] <waspinator> any idea if ubuntu will support stylus ala galaxy note or windows?
[20:09] <Paddy_NI> waspinator: I don't see why it would not really
[20:09] <waspinator> i hope so
[20:09] <waspinator> right now my x86 tablet pc has horrible pen support in ubuntu 12.10
[20:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Paddy_NI: It does not to the extent it does not have a image program that works with pressure points
[20:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I am not even sure if Gimp has that capability.
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> Akiva-Thinkpad: Well gimp supports pressure points
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> it does
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> as does inkscape
[20:10] <Akiva-Thinkpad> plugin though, I am sure
[20:10] <Paddy_NI> Yes
[20:10] <waspinator> it doesn't even rotate pen input when I rotate my display screen
[20:11] <waspinator> there are very basic bits that aren't supported before apps can be written for it
[20:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> speaking of which, are images for tablet going to be limited to the 700 mb of a cd?
[20:11] <Paddy_NI> waspinator: Have you tried installing some raw minced beef into the usb ports?
[20:11] <Akiva-Thinkpad> or will they dare make 1-2 gigabyte images?
[20:11] <waspinator> hmm, no. would that help?
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Oh you have to write a script for tha
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> that
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I saw a video on the thinkpad tablet with ubuntu, same problem
[20:12] <Paddy_NI> waspinator: Well it would not hurt :-)
[20:12] <Paddy_NI> Sorry I have a problem :-(
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> when you rotate, mouse still stays the same, and gives you mirror touch
[20:12] <waspinator> that's the kind of stuff I would expect my OS to handle
[20:12] <waspinator> without me writing scripts
[20:12] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Well, I feel your pain
[20:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: I could say though, you get what you pay for
[20:13] <waspinator> I just use windows when I need the tablet bits of my computer
[20:13] <waspinator> ya I guess you do
[20:13] <waspinator> windows 8 is great for it actually
[20:13]  * Paddy_NI shivers
[20:13] <waspinator> and it only cost me $15 though
[20:13] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: The script is simple enough; perhaps you and I could work on implimenting this into the distro?
[20:13] <waspinator> so not much more than ubuntu
[20:14] <waspinator> I doubt canonical would include something written by unknowns
[20:15] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Rubbish.
[20:15] <bkc_> waspinator: xrandr keeps track of the screen, while xwacom manages the tablet-part, so that's why the mouse isn't rotated when you change the rotation of the screen :)
[20:15] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: its already written for that matter.
[20:15] <bkc_> Akiva-Thinkpad: and it's in the repo
[20:15] <waspinator> and no one thought it would be a good idea to sync them>
[20:16] <waspinator> at least no one at canonical
[20:16] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: I think if people come with your attitude; "Why should I do it?" then, its not surprising :P
[20:16] <bkc_> waspinator: no, because that would require them to check each time whether wacom was installed or not. OR slap on even more unnecessary dependencies...
[20:17] <bkc_> and syncing them is easy, the daemon is just an apt-get away :)
[20:17] <bkc_> or SoftwareCenter if you feel like shooting yourself in the foot ;)
[20:17] <waspinator> if its so easy to install, why wouldn't it be an option in additional drivers?
[20:18] <waspinator> or better yet just installed automatically if detected during a system update
[20:18] <waspinator> I'll try it though
[20:18] <waspinator> but it shouldn't require user intervention
[20:19] <Hourd> why not?
[20:19] <bkc_> 1) because the daemon isn't a driver, 2) because not everyone actually changes the orientation of their screens :)
[20:19] <Hourd> its fairly specialist and easy to add
[20:19] <waspinator> whats the daemon's name?
[20:19] <waspinator> all tablets change orientation
[20:20] <waspinator> or at least they should have the option to
[20:20] <bkc_> for the thinkpad tablet there's also a script for automagically change the orientation of both tablet and screen depending on the physical orientation :)'
[20:20] <bkc_> uhm, no?
[20:20] <bkc_> I have a tablet for my desktop... see the problem? :)
[20:21] <waspinator> no ... why would I buy a tablet for my computer?
[20:21] <waspinator> it's already a computer
[20:21] <waspinator> of course I don't want my desktop to switch orientations when I rotate my tablet
[20:21] <Hourd> i also have a tablet for my desktop... which i never change screen orientation
[20:22] <waspinator> I'm not talking about graphics tablets btw
[20:22] <bkc_> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Wacom_Bamboo_Capture_tablet_and_pen.jpg <-- tablet...
[20:22] <bkc_> no, but it's the same concept...
[20:22] <bkc_> it's actually the same thing...
[20:22] <waspinator> uh no. when you say tablet, especially in ubuntu-tablet you aren't talking about graphics tablet periperals
[20:23] <waspinator> the ones I'm talking about have a screen and a computer attached behind it
[20:23] <waspinator> surely ubuntu can see the difference
[20:23] <waspinator> I know windows can
[20:23] <bkc_> no and no
[20:24] <waspinator> that's unfortunate
[20:24] <bkc_> the input-device and driver is the same for external drawing-tablets and mobile tablets
[20:24] <bkc_> for both windows and linux
[20:24] <waspinator> I guess I'm stuck with windows then
[20:24] <waspinator> right, but windows doesn't rotate my screen when I rotate a graphics tablet.
[20:24] <waspinator> it does when I rotate a graphics tablet screen combo
[20:25] <bkc_> no, that's because the graphics tablet doesn't have a gyroscope/accelerometer built in...
[20:25] <waspinator> oh ok, so adding this functaionlity in wouldn't do any harm to your use case then
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Wow, mark, way to knock my socks off
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> All I care though, as beautiful as that phone and tablet and everything else is, is I want my terminal
[20:26] <bkc_> no, but unnecessary in about 99% of the cases, BUT for ubuntu-tablet I'm sure this functionality will exist...
[20:26] <Akiva-Thinkpad> just so it still feels like linux :)
[20:26] <Hourd> Akiva-Thinkpad: same
[20:26] <waspinator> that's all I ask
[20:27] <bkc_> waspinator: but you where talking about regular ubuntu (as it is now, since the tablet version isn't released) so that's the answer you got :)
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> waspinator: Solution - Apply script, and call yourself a hacker.
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> ubuntu tablets to run on ipads?
[20:28] <Akiva-Thinkpad> or is this gonna be a hacking project?
[20:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't know if ipad images are flashed to roms or not so...
[20:29] <bkc_> google iDroid to see if the bootloader is even available for iPad :)
[20:29] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Pah, droid
[20:30] <bkc_> iPad images works just like iPhone images, so they are flashed to the internal disk
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> "Lets run a java machine on it!"
[20:30] <Akiva-Thinkpad> interesting
[20:31] <bkc_> well, the bootloader is the same, and since "regular" linux wasn't really an option for phones up until now, Android was the "best choise"
[20:42] <Walther> Hm. Is the device going to be released through OEMs or will there be a public image / sources available for e.g. Nexus 7?
[20:43] <no_gravity> Good Evening! Will ubuntu for tablets provide root access by default?
[20:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: No, they are getting rid of the terminal
[20:44] <no_gravity> Akiva-Thinkpad: how do you know?
[20:44] <bkc_> lol, there's no info on that :P
[20:44] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: I'm just trying to shock you :P
[20:45] <no_gravity> root access would be the only differentiating factor for me.
[20:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: you mean root accout, or sudo capabilities??
[20:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> because root account... how long ago with that? 6.04?
[20:45] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I don't think they had it even then :P
[20:46] <bkc_> ...
[20:46] <no_gravity> Akiva-Thinkpad: thats why i said root access
[20:46] <bkc_> root still exists...
[20:47] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: does ubuntu-tv have it? I would assume it does.
[20:48] <no_gravity> for example, i hate it that i cannot edit /etc/hosts on my iOS devices.
[20:48] <no_gravity> didnt try on my android devices but would guess its unavailable as well.
[20:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Anyways, its good my project is still in planning stages. Looks like an ubuntu-tablet version will need to be made :P
[20:49] <Akiva-Thinkpad> no_gravity: Yah I hate that too. If that happened here at least, the community would find a hack, and no one would bite your head off for being disloyal to the logo.
[20:50] <Walther> But yeah, any info on possible images / sources?
[20:50] <Walther> I want to get this thing on my Nexus 7 *now*
[20:50] <Walther> or if not now, as soon as possible
[20:53] <nOStahl> gotta wait like everyone else Walther lol
[20:53] <Walther> of course. But like I asked earlier, the main question is: will it be OEM only, or will the sources and/or images become available
[20:54] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I swear the apple developers were inspired by Rousseau, "Sire, the apple users are complaining that their 1 year old machines are not compatible with the new software." "Let them eat cake~"
[20:54] <nOStahl> its open source
[20:54] <Walther> as in, neither the phone nor the tv project images / sources have been released
[20:54] <Walther> Akiva-Thinkpad: :D
[20:56] <nOStahl> the ubuntu tv will be fun
[20:57] <waspinator> announced almost a year ago
[20:58] <waspinator> I hope phone/tablet don't take so long to come to market
[20:59] <nOStahl> someone said they heard there would be no ubuntu carriers till october
[21:00] <Walther> but yeah, taking the TV as an example, the project was released/annoucned a year ago or so, still no images / no sources
[21:00] <Walther> i seriously hope the same won't happen with phone and tablet
[21:01] <nOStahl> just setup a factory to produce devices and become an ubuntu distributor partner :P
[21:01] <nOStahl> then you get the imagees
[21:16] <colonelqubit> The Ubuntu tablet announcement mentions support for Skype. Will there be support for Jabber/Jingle and WebRTC video chat as well?
[21:16]  * AlanBell wants support for AIX and SIP
[21:16] <IdleOne> We can't make money selling you free options!
[21:17] <colonelqubit> Do you think Skype support is netting Ubuntu $$?
[21:17] <IdleOne> no
[21:19] <IdleOne> it is supposed to run a full desktop when docked to a keyboard and mouse. I assume that means it will run whatever is in the repos.
[21:19] <Walther> pfft. Seriously guys, stop trolling / "joke answering"
[21:19] <IdleOne> Walther: We only know as much info as is provided in the links in the topic.
[21:19] <Walther> The thing is too hot at the moment for joke answers or trolling. There are way too many actual questions.
[21:20] <Walther> IdleOne: Yes, but trolling / joke answering will just cause additional chaos and confusion
[21:20] <IdleOne> So, if you read that info you know as much as anybody else knows.
[21:20] <Walther> which isn't helpful
[21:20] <IdleOne> my answer was sarcastic but not completely inaccurate from the direction I see Canonical headed in.
[21:24] <IdleOne> Walther: You do make a good point though and I apologise. I'll try harder from now on not to make jokes or at least be clear when I am joking.
[21:25] <Walther> no problem :P I'm not a dev or anything
[21:25] <IdleOne> neither am I but you reminded me what being Ubuntu is. I had forgot for a moment :)
[21:25]  * colonelqubit was on board for the joke...just wanted to confirm whether canonical was partnering with MS on skype or something
[21:26] <colonelqubit> So to make some guesses: Tablet will probably run whatever's in the repos
[21:27] <bkc_> AlanBell: SIP-support is available in the repos, no idea about integration in tablet-version though
[21:27] <colonelqubit> however, we don't know what will be in the repos, especially for an ARM device.
[21:27] <IdleOne> colonelqubit: No idea but it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to do so to generate funds. Although it would cause a lot of ugliness in the greater FOSS community.
[21:27] <bkc_> IdleOne: Ubuntu is already a black sheep in the FOSS community so no worries there :)
[21:27] <IdleOne> heh
[21:28] <colonelqubit> IdleOne: Canonical doesn't always play nicely with the larger FLOSS community
[21:28] <colonelqubit> (what bkc_ said)
[21:29] <colonelqubit> I'll try to ping an early-reviewer of the device and see if they can confirm suppor
[21:29] <colonelqubit> support
[21:29]  * genii-around sips coffee
[21:29] <bkc_> the fact that they encourages users to install driver-blobs is a major thorn in the FOSS-devs eyes ^.^
[21:29] <colonelqubit> bkc_:  yeah, it sucks, but I'd rather have people using a 95%-open system than none at all
[21:30] <colonelqubit> the rub comes when we get complacent with that 5%
[21:30] <AlanBell> I don't think the firmware blobs are a major point of contention really
[21:30] <colonelqubit> It's a tricky line to walk, especially for the companies in this game
[21:30] <bkc_> yes, I'm all for FOSS, but I still use NV-blobs on my desktop because I need it for work
[21:31] <bkc_> AlanBell: actually it is :/
[21:31] <AlanBell> more the gnome interactions these days
[21:31] <colonelqubit> AlanBell: Especially on mobile devices
[21:32] <AlanBell> other derivatives have shipped flash and codecs by default
[21:32] <bkc_> blobs in general have always been taboo in the FOSS community.
[21:33] <colonelqubit> AlanBell: Hmmm... which derivatives?  I know that debian has some stuff in non-free, but I can't think of a distro that ships with that stuff enabled
[21:34] <AlanBell> doesn't mint do that? maybe they stopped (or maybe I am wrong)
[21:36] <AlanBell> heh, flash, closed java, mp3 encoding, dvd decss playback
[21:36] <colonelqubit> in Mint?
[21:36] <colonelqubit> must not have servers anywhere near the US...
[21:37] <AlanBell> anyhow, that is a bit off topic for this channel
[21:37] <colonelqubit> true
[21:38] <AlanBell> I should think the tablet will have somewhat closed graphics drivers, probably using the android drivers at some level
[21:38] <colonelqubit> but to bring it back on topic, I assume that only OEMs will ship Skype. Default builds will probably not
[21:39] <AlanBell> well I don't know really. The OEM might want to ship skype, but the carrier will not. It sounds like Canonical want to give the carriers a great big hug at the moment.
[21:39] <colonelqubit> That's a dangerous move for canonical
[21:39] <colonelqubit> could cost them a lot in the community
[21:40] <colonelqubit> well, actually both communities: the FOSS community, and any community they want to create around a potential product
[21:40] <AlanBell> a brave and possibly even courageous move
[21:40] <AlanBell> perhaps even foolhardy
[21:40] <user82_> am i correct that ubuntu tablet is not compatible with android apps?
[21:40] <bkc_> skype will be in the repo though (taken from the images canonical has released)
[21:40] <bkc_> so it's only a click away :)
[21:40] <colonelqubit> bkc_: interesting
[21:41] <AlanBell> user82_: you are correct (unless someone does an interesting dalvik hack)
[21:41] <user82_> thanks AlanBell
[21:42] <colonelqubit> what's the status of Android compat layers? I heard some rumble about it a while back
[21:42] <AlanBell> bkc_: I wonder if the carriers will let it point at the repos or whether they will want to control their own repos
[21:42] <AlanBell> colonelqubit: google don't want you to do it
[21:43] <colonelqubit> AlanBell: sure, but I don't think there's much they can do to stop you
[21:43] <bkc_> AlanBell: are you sure there'll even be carrier-controlled versions? :)
[21:43] <colonelqubit> they might be able to talk Canonical out of putting it in the repo, though
[21:43] <bkc_> that's kind of anti-linux :P
[21:43] <colonelqubit> bkc_: all kinds of stuff runs on liux
[21:43] <colonelqubit> linux
[21:44] <bkc_> yeah, sure, but "real" linux :/
[21:44] <colonelqubit> The carriers just see this as a toaster
[21:44] <bkc_> ^.^
[21:44] <bkc_> true that :P
[21:44] <AlanBell> bkc_: dunno, but that seems to be what they are aiming for at the moment, they are telling carriers they can have this and lock it down
[21:44] <colonelqubit> indeed
[21:45] <GuidoPallemans> Has gimp really already been morphed to qml?
[21:45] <colonelqubit> the big question is whether we'll see locked-down ubuntu tablets
[21:47] <colonelqubit> I guess two methods there (1) locked-down UI/repos, (2) locked-down at the hardware level
[21:48] <bkc_> AlanBell: seriously? any source on that one? because that sounds retarded beyond canonical-level :P
[21:48] <bkc_> from a FOSS POV that is :)
[21:48] <AlanBell> http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/19/4005514/ubuntu-phones-2014-might-be-locked-down-by-mobile
[21:51] <bkc_> "We've had fairly substantial conversations... none of [the carriers or OEMs] have expressed a desire to recreate the fragmentation of the Android operating system," <-- from that link :/
[21:55] <GuidoPallemans> Has gimp really already been morphed to qml?
[21:58] <AlanBell> doubt it
[21:59] <AlanBell> seeing as GTK stands for Gimp Tool Kit (or did originally)
[21:59] <bkc_> ...
[21:59] <bkc_> Gnome Image Manipulation Program
[22:00] <AlanBell> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GTK%2B
[22:00] <bkc_> yes, the almighty wikipedia that has never been wrong ;)
[22:00] <AlanBell> heh, well it certainly isn't wrong in this instance
[22:01] <waspinator> GNU Image Manipulation Program
[22:01] <AlanBell> GIMP stands for GNU Image Manipulation Program
[22:01] <waspinator> you're both wrong
[22:01] <bkc_> o.O
[22:01]  * AlanBell isn't wrong
[22:02] <bkc_> waspinator: right, my bad on that one...
[22:02] <waspinator> oh nvm. read it wrong
[22:02] <bkc_> huh, actually it's right there in the first line on GTK's frontpage o.O
[22:02] <popey> \o/ xkcd 386
[22:03] <bkc_> TIL
[22:03] <bkc_> popey: ;)
[22:23] <AlanBell> http://www.ubuntu.com/2013/02/press-pack-ubuntu-tablet/faq
[22:27] <genii-around> Hm
[22:28] <colonelqubit> "The OS is exactly the same in all cases – Ubuntu running on tablets is the same Ubuntu which runs on the PC, phone and TV"
[22:28] <colonelqubit> ...unclear what that means about app availability
[22:28] <colonelqubit> Of course, it would be hard to make that statement with a straight face and then neuter apt-get
[22:28] <genii-around> If an app is available for a cpu you have in whatvever your device is
[22:29] <genii-around> arm, x86, etc
[22:29] <colonelqubit> right, but AlanBell (and others) have commented that the devices could be locked down
[22:30] <colonelqubit> locked-down repo + ubuntu underpinnings + Unity is not "the same Ubuntu which runs on the PC"
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> Is the talk not that the OEM's might want the devices locked
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> rather than Canonical
[22:30] <ubuntubhoy> so it's just guessing right now
[22:31] <colonelqubit> Sure. But Ubuntu has already made this statement in public
[22:31] <colonelqubit> Now we get to see if they keep it or waffle on it...
[22:33] <AlanBell> well worth digging through the press pack information
[22:38]  * genii-around goeas all archeologist
[22:41]  * colonelqubit hands genii-around a fedora and a bullwhip
[22:54] <ubuntubhoy> reading it now AlanBell
[23:01] <bkc_> colonelqubit: but the carriers have said to Canonical that they aren't interested in doing stupid things like that, so the probability that they do it is slim, but it still exists :)
[23:01] <bkc_> on the lock-down note :)
[23:02]  * colonelqubit reading
[23:03] <colonelqubit> hmm... ah, okay. I interpreted the "nobody wants fragmentation" as an argument in FAVOR of lockdown, not against it
[23:03] <colonelqubit> ala Apple
[23:04] <colonelqubit> I think the biggest "tool" that Ubuntu has to prevent incompatibilities is their voice
[23:04] <bkc_> well, fragmentation is more UI and App-availability related than locking it down :)
[23:04] <colonelqubit> kind of
[23:05] <colonelqubit> if a user always has an option to upgrade their ubuntu+oem-stuff to a stock ubuntu build, then they can escape from whatever backwater they're stuck in
[23:05] <colonelqubit> and get to a modern build of Ubuntu
[23:06] <colonelqubit> kind of like going from whatever Android build your phone came with to Cyanogenmod
[23:06] <colonelqubit> (cm isn't "upstream", but it's basically close enough)
[23:07] <colonelqubit> Anyhow, as long as it's easy for the user to select that 'upgrade' path, then I think we'll all be in good shape
[23:08] <colonelqubit> But I don't see OEMs or Carriers agreeing to that
[23:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> Any idea what the default webbrowser will be?
[23:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I have tried firefox mobile; wasn't impressed
[23:27] <Akiva-Thinkpad> opera mobile on the other hand is fantastic.
[23:29] <GuidoPallemans> probably a self-made one, relying on qt-qml's qwebkit viewer
[23:31] <genii-around> I wonder what the user agent would be
[23:49] <bkc_> I'm guessing webkit
[23:52] <bkc_> or perhaps gecko, but webkit is already on ARM so there's less porting/optimization to do (unless gecko is also on ARM, then they're equal)
[23:59] <Akiva-Thinkpad> hmmm