| snap-l | Evening | 00:36 |
|---|---|---|
| rick_h_ | evening | 01:34 |
| Blazeix | nice: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/02/dells-linux-ultrabook-gets-more-pixels-european-availability/ | 01:58 |
| rick_h_ | yea, definitely cool | 01:59 |
| snap-l | wait wait | 02:40 |
| rick_h_ | huh? | 02:40 |
| Blazeix | the suspense is killing me | 02:46 |
| snap-l | waiting for JoDee to get out of class | 02:48 |
| rick_h_ | oh that's less dramatic | 02:50 |
| Blazeix | yeah, it should have been read in a singsong voice, rather than an urgent tone. | 02:55 |
| snap-l | heh | 04:08 |
| rick_h_ | http://r.bmark.us/u/a7d2eb71a36a9b ?! | 12:09 |
| * rick_h_ gets wallet out | 12:09 | |
| snap-l | Is it just me, or does anyone else have a hard time getting excited over a tablet? | 13:01 |
| snap-l | I mean, cool if you're into that sort of thing, but felt like some artificial buzz | 13:02 |
| rick_h_ | I <3 my N7 | 13:04 |
| snap-l | Yeah, don't get me wrong, I think the N7 is pretty cool | 13:04 |
| snap-l | Just the "Ubuntu Tablet, woo woo" is leaving me a little cold. | 13:06 |
| snap-l | I'll fully admit I'm probably not the target audience. ;) | 13:07 |
| brousch | Is it out? | 13:07 |
| rick_h_ | announcement today | 13:08 |
| rick_h_ | but it'll probably just be the software, hopefully runs on an N7 | 13:08 |
| brousch | probably? hopefully? You're our inside man! Get the real scoop! | 13:09 |
| rick_h_ | lol, but I don't know anything. I didn't know anything until the page went up on the site | 13:09 |
| snap-l | Considering the "on penalty of death" threats I've heard some folks say... ;) | 13:09 |
| rick_h_ | and $#@$# sirius for being a pita to deal with online | 13:09 |
| brousch | A little death never hurt anyone | 13:09 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: Use the SB | 13:09 |
| snap-l | there's a client for it | 13:10 |
| rick_h_ | snap-l: it's for the car stuff | 13:10 |
| snap-l | You'll need the hardware radio, though. It doesn't support software clients. | 13:10 |
| rick_h_ | it's got the traffic/etc and supposedly can get weather but maybe | 13:10 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: Yeah, but get the client | 13:10 |
| rick_h_ | k | 13:10 |
| snap-l | Was the way I listened to marketplace t 6pm. ;) | 13:10 |
| snap-l | May as well get the most out of your 3 months | 13:11 |
| rick_h_ | yea, but looking into what it'll run after that. Like the traffic bits, not sure on the radio | 13:11 |
| rick_h_ | I'll definitely use it down to Atl and back | 13:11 |
| rick_h_ | trial it up ftw | 13:11 |
| snap-l | Oh definitely | 13:11 |
| snap-l | That's the only reason I like Sirius is for those long drives | 13:12 |
| snap-l | but other than that, I have podcasts. | 13:12 |
| rick_h_ | though I've got 3 audio books that I could put a dent into | 13:12 |
| snap-l | and with bluetooth support in the car, I have one less thing to fiddle with | 13:12 |
| rick_h_ | and can do pandora over BT from the phone as well | 13:12 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: You're indirectly paying for Sirius. ;) | 13:13 |
| snap-l | Might as well use it. | 13:13 |
| rick_h_ | yea | 13:13 |
| snap-l | I let ours expire. | 13:13 |
| snap-l | and now I'm getting the "6 months free with purchase of a year sub" | 13:13 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 13:13 |
| brousch | Is the Taureg AWD? | 13:14 |
| rick_h_ | brousch: yea | 13:14 |
| brousch | I could've used it today | 13:14 |
| rick_h_ | brousch: pretty good offroad/etc based on reviews and the like | 13:14 |
| rick_h_ | but honestly I had that with the subaru pretty well so just hoping it keeps up | 13:15 |
| rick_h_ | I'm already nervous because it's more a 90% front / 10% rear by default for road driving | 13:15 |
| rick_h_ | vs subaru 50/50 all the time | 13:15 |
| brousch | Subaru's annoys me sometimes | 13:16 |
| brousch | Takes too long to transfer power to different wheels | 13:16 |
| brousch | I think a manual subaru would be better | 13:17 |
| rick_h_ | meh, never gave me grief. <3 | 13:17 |
| brousch | I didn't notice it as much with the 2000 Forester, but our 2009 Forester is laggy | 13:18 |
| rick_h_ | well forester is the poor mans subie imo. Outback or bust | 13:19 |
| rick_h_ | when I got my last outback I drove a forester around and it did not feel nearly as well put together as the outback | 13:19 |
| rick_h_ | road noise, ergo, everything seemed not up to snuff | 13:20 |
| brousch | I agree, but it's the wife's car | 13:20 |
| rick_h_ | gotcha | 13:20 |
| snap-l | ls | 13:29 |
| snap-l | bah | 13:29 |
| brousch | IRCINYCL | 13:30 |
| snap-l | OAYFM | 13:34 |
| snap-l | Once Again You Fail Me | 13:34 |
| rick_h_ | win7 doesn't have telnet? w.t.f. | 13:35 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: Why would it? | 13:35 |
| rick_h_ | because it has before through time from the cli | 13:36 |
| snap-l | I'm surprised it doesn't ship with PuTTY | 13:36 |
| snap-l | Other than PuTTY is a miserable interface to a mediocre SSH client | 13:36 |
| brousch | PuTTY is my savior | 13:36 |
| snap-l | It's a heaping dose of adequate | 13:37 |
| brousch | Well-put | 13:37 |
| rick_h_ | and $@#$@# IE10 and it's developer tools of suck | 13:44 |
| snap-l | Heh | 13:45 |
| brousch | OMG you have to use IE? | 13:45 |
| rick_h_ | have to have our thing work in IE10 | 13:45 |
| brousch | That's one thing I love about my big internal project. I can give the finger to IE | 13:48 |
| brousch | I've trained everyone to use Chrome and FF, and only use IE when a site doesn't work on the good browsers | 13:49 |
| brousch | This is awesome http://www.engadget.com/2013/02/19/3doodler/ | 14:10 |
| jrwren | rick_h_: seeking critisism: https://github.com/jrwren/aggregate | 14:25 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: about to jump on a call but will look in a few | 14:25 |
| brousch | jrwren: Looks interesting | 14:26 |
| jrwren | brousch: not pointless? | 14:26 |
| brousch | Depends on the data you're dealing with | 14:27 |
| jrwren | right. | 14:27 |
| snap-l | jrwren: What are you looking to do? Keep a running average on a list or dict of data? | 14:27 |
| jrwren | the goal is to aggregate an long stream. e.g. I'll be running it on a generator which generates 4+GB of data | 14:28 |
| snap-l | with min and max? | 14:28 |
| jrwren | snap-l: the running aggregates part isn't done yet, but that is the next step. | 14:28 |
| snap-l | I could see this being useful | 14:28 |
| jrwren | snap-l: ultimately, "maybe" but the goal is simply to be able to aggregate a large set. | 14:28 |
| snap-l | Yeah, at the very least the min / max stuff would be nice. | 14:29 |
| jrwren | e.g. I'm reading binary data from a custom database on disk, turning the records into dict and yielding each one in a generator - so only 1 record is ever in memory at a time, but I can aggregate nicely. | 14:29 |
| snap-l | running average would be tricky | 14:29 |
| jrwren | hrm. I should document what i just said. | 14:29 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Bingo. ;) | 14:29 |
| jrwren | running average is easy. I have running sum and running count :) | 14:29 |
| snap-l | Ah, right | 14:29 |
| snap-l | derp | 14:29 |
| brousch | jrwren: Make sure this doesn't suit you http://matplotlib.org/api/mlab_api.html#matplotlib.mlab.rec_groupby | 14:32 |
| jrwren | i'd have to use numpy | 14:32 |
| jrwren | which means loading everything into a numpy array. | 14:32 |
| jrwren | i'm actually dealing with datasets which cannot fit into memory on the machine on which I'll be running them. | 14:33 |
| brousch | Also maybe http://pandas.pydata.org/pandas-docs/stable/groupby.html | 14:33 |
| brousch | heh | 14:33 |
| brousch | Big Data! | 14:33 |
| jrwren | its not really. | 14:33 |
| jrwren | its more like small machine :) | 14:33 |
| brousch | Confucius say, "Big Data in Small Machine make for painful pleasure" | 14:35 |
| _stink_ | hahaha | 14:35 |
| _stink_ | stolen | 14:36 |
| snap-l | jrwren: Just use RLE. ;) | 14:43 |
| snap-l | I'll show myself the door now. | 14:43 |
| jrwren | snap-l: RLE? | 14:51 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: my first reaction, with the knowledge that you're talking stream 4GB/etc is that databases already do this and a tmp table would do it in a hurry and you can then do cooler work like multi process loading of data or the like if that's io bound. | 14:51 |
| snap-l | Run Length Encoding. ;) | 14:51 |
| rick_h_ | don't have 4gb of memory? ouch | 14:52 |
| jrwren | snap-l: oh, not on this dataset. | 14:52 |
| jrwren | its running on a 32bit machine. | 14:52 |
| snap-l | jrwren: I'm kidding. | 14:52 |
| jrwren | so 2GB process limit :) | 14:52 |
| rick_h_ | meh, cut --help :P | 14:52 |
| jrwren | rick_h_: you might be right. | 14:53 |
| jrwren | I did do exactly what you just said before doing this - pulled it into postgresql got the numbers I needed. | 14:53 |
| snap-l | jrwren: TOo bad you're not in a physics lab. I'm pretty sure RLE would work there. (All the data is a series of ones or zeroes) | 14:53 |
| jrwren | snap-l: rofl. | 14:54 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: so I mean this is cool and solves your problem or what not, but just not how I'd think to go about it myself. | 14:54 |
| jrwren | rick_h_: not loading things into postgresql was an assumed constraint. | 14:54 |
| jrwren | purhaps it was a false assumption on my part. | 14:54 |
| snap-l | Beware false assumptions. | 14:54 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: even something like a NOSQL db could work as you could create a view that does the agg and start loading and it'll update per insert | 14:55 |
| snap-l | First commandment: Thou shalt have no other assumptions besides me | 14:55 |
| jrwren | perhaps automating postgresql import is the right way | 14:55 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: if you're sure this is all you need then cool go for it. I just find that these types of things end up getting new twisted requirements over time and the solution doesn't scale up/out like a real db | 14:55 |
| jrwren | rick_h_: which NOSQL db? mongo sucks to go to disk. redis is KV. what do you recommend? | 14:55 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: honestly, I was thinking about couch and how you create a view it auto updates the view on insert | 14:56 |
| jrwren | i'll explore that next. thanks. | 14:56 |
| rick_h_ | so load time takes the hit but reading is instant since it's pre-calculated | 14:56 |
| jrwren | right. | 14:56 |
| rick_h_ | not sure if you've got a need for multiple reads/etc | 14:56 |
| snap-l | Also PostgreSQL can emulate KV and store JSON | 14:56 |
| rick_h_ | heh, pgsql hstore on group_by value = sum :P | 14:57 |
| jrwren | snap-l: exactly, which is why I never bother with mongo or redis :) | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | but that will probably be slower because you will run out of ram and the table will hit disk, but it's a TON more flexible. | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | so depends on your goals. | 14:57 |
| snap-l | rick_h_: views. ;) | 14:57 |
| rick_h_ | snap-l: not following | 14:58 |
| snap-l | use a view to get the average | 14:58 |
| snap-l | Though you take the compute hit every time you want it. ;) | 14:58 |
| jrwren | i've already done exactly all of this with postgresql. | 14:58 |
| rick_h_ | right, view only helps if it's a materialized and such but yea. That's what I mean though. It's a solved problem there | 14:59 |
| jrwren | use the exact same py generator reader to create a COPY FROM import, then index on 1 column, then do my aggregation. | 14:59 |
| jrwren | it works well. | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | this agg module can help a specific use case, but then it seems like there'd be numpy/etc stuff that does this as well. | 14:59 |
| rick_h_ | but I've not used it enough to speak about it intelligently | 14:59 |
| jrwren | the issue is the requirement is run on ec2 w/out ebs. so I'd have to recreate the postgresql on demand. | 14:59 |
| snap-l | Yeah, and I'm not sure how efficient it is either. | 15:00 |
| jrwren | afaik numpy/etc all needs to fit into ram. | 15:00 |
| rick_h_ | jrwren: copy/load from s3 | 15:00 |
| jrwren | rick_h_: its in s3 now, as raw data. | 15:00 |
| rick_h_ | ah gotcha | 15:00 |
| snap-l | What's to stop you from keeping the database files on S3? | 15:01 |
| snap-l | (seriously doesn't understand S3) | 15:01 |
| jrwren | s3 is slow. | 15:01 |
| rick_h_ | because pgsql splits things into a ton of diff files based on the block size and it'd be a mess in s3 | 15:01 |
| snap-l | kk | 15:02 |
| rick_h_ | and yea, compared to local it's very slow, but pretty fast as far as internet goes especially on ec2 inside the network | 15:02 |
| rick_h_ | heck of a lot faster than uploading from your machine to the instance | 15:02 |
| rick_h_ | unless you're in KC I guess :P | 15:02 |
| jrwren | lol. | 15:02 |
| jrwren | given its a TB of data... | 15:02 |
| rick_h_ | oooh, thought it was 4GB? | 15:03 |
| jrwren | lol, no. | 15:03 |
| jrwren | the whole point is that i never load more than 1 record into ram at once. | 15:03 |
| jrwren | i just assume a 2GB limit since I'm on a 32bit instance. | 15:03 |
| jrwren | "it doesn't fit into ram" is the #1 requirement. | 15:04 |
| rick_h_ | well hell, for TB of data we're talking hadoop/reduce functions | 15:04 |
| jrwren | nope, will not JVM. | 15:04 |
| jrwren | no hadoop allowed :) | 15:04 |
| jrwren | unless of course, we rewrite hadoop. | 15:04 |
| jrwren | pydoop. | 15:04 |
| jrwren | thankfully my coworkers and mgmt have the same aversion to jvm that I do. | 15:05 |
| rick_h_ | https://github.com/michaelfairley/mincemeatpy or http://mikecvet.wordpress.com/2010/07/02/parallel-mapreduce-in-python/ for some fun weekend tinkering :) | 15:06 |
| rick_h_ | http://engineeringblog.yelp.com/2010/10/mrjob-distributed-computing-for-everybody.html is cool but uses hadoop under the hood | 15:07 |
| jrwren | thanks. | 15:07 |
| rick_h_ | but yea, TB of data like that is a straight up map/reduce problem and there's stuff to do that. | 15:08 |
| rick_h_ | and one of the things couch did kind of cool | 15:08 |
| jrwren | except I can do it in a timely manner using exactly what i jsut wrote. | 15:08 |
| jrwren | MR is overkill. | 15:08 |
| rick_h_ | yea, so what are you doing then? Splitting one s3 file into a dozen, firing up 12 micro workers, and running your script? | 15:09 |
| jrwren | i mean, its only 1TB of data. I can read that off disk in a reasonably short period of time. IO is vastly slower than proc, so some math on whawt I just read is near zero overhead. | 15:09 |
| jrwren | thousands of s3 files, single small instance, for i in files; do keepsum $i ; done | 15:10 |
| jrwren | something like that :) | 15:10 |
| rick_h_ | gotcha | 15:10 |
| rick_h_ | you're doing MR, just your micro framework for it committed to a specific function run :P | 15:10 |
| jrwren | i will probably never process teh whole TB at once. | 15:10 |
| jrwren | of course. | 15:10 |
| jrwren | EVERYTHING is map and reduce. | 15:10 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 15:11 |
| jrwren | no no - its true. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | its a fundamentalism of functional programming. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | and map is just a special case of reduce. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | or is that the other way around, I forget. | 15:11 |
| jrwren | i really appreciate the dialog. I'll try some other things too. | 15:12 |
| jrwren | TY | 15:12 |
| brousch | http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2013/02/ubuntu-for-tablet-unveiled-by-canonical-nexus-7-download-coming-thursday | 16:12 |
| brousch | I almost bought a Nexus 10 | 16:12 |
| rick_h_ | yea, I'm on the edge of doing that right now | 16:13 |
| rick_h_ | love the N7 and curious if a 10 would be any good. This way I could test out the ubuntu on it and keep my N7 for the handy stuff I love on it | 16:13 |
| jcastro | what sucks about the 7 and 10 | 16:13 |
| jcastro | is they're totally different hardware | 16:13 |
| rick_h_ | yea :/ | 16:13 |
| rick_h_ | two diff companies | 16:13 |
| jcastro | at first I was like "oh cool, same hardware, different form factor." | 16:13 |
| jcastro | of course, that would be too easy | 16:13 |
| rick_h_ | lol | 16:13 |
| jrwren | its only 200G of ram :) | 16:21 |
| rick_h_ | oooh, snow...go go go. I want to go play | 16:51 |
| rick_h_ | Blazeix: have you used google maps api some? | 16:53 |
| rick_h_ | ...going...to...have...meltdown... | 17:22 |
| snap-l | What happened? | 17:22 |
| rick_h_ | this stupid project is setup in the most stupid way and I'm getting tired of working around it to submit a stupid 2line patch... | 17:23 |
| rick_h_ | every time I fix one thing another is broken...dammit these aren't stupid devs. Why are they trying to make me want to press the nukes button? | 17:23 |
| snap-l | They don't know any better? | 17:24 |
| snap-l | Or better left the station a while ago, and now we're stuck with a culture of meh? | 17:25 |
| rick_h_ | http://www.ubuntu.com/devices/tablet does look kind of cool (the video) | 18:17 |
| brousch | Who dressed Shuttleworth for that video? | 18:51 |
| brousch | He looks like a homeless guy | 18:51 |
| brousch | Come on. You're a billionaire playboy cosmonaut pimping the future of technology. Trim the chesthair! | 18:55 |
| _stink_ | depends on what he's trying to attract | 18:58 |
| brousch | werewolves? | 18:59 |
| _stink_ | mmm | 19:01 |
| brousch | Or are you saying you want to dig your hands deep into his chestfur and give it a playful tug? | 19:02 |
| _stink_ | suddenly i see your point | 19:03 |
| snap-l | _stink_: I think you mean you can't unsee his point. | 19:10 |
| brousch | Why are you guys looking at my point? Don't make me put pants on. | 19:12 |
| _stink_ | good thing years of scientific training has ruined my imagination. | 19:21 |
| rick_h_ | snow squals wooo | 20:08 |
| jrwren | he doea not look homeless. | 20:57 |
| jcastro | n0p: hey | 20:58 |
| jrwren | "gracefully on different screen sizes and resolutions" HOW did THey DO THAT?!?! | 20:58 |
| snap-l | jrwren: The desktop is a responsive web page. ;) | 20:59 |
| jrwren | oh. | 20:59 |
| snap-l | Actually, I'm not sure how they did that, but I have a feeling that might not be that far off | 21:00 |
| snap-l | SVG all the things | 21:00 |
| jrwren | i look forward to hearing about an official dev kit :) | 21:00 |
| snap-l | I'm surprised more devices don't do SVG natively | 21:00 |
| snap-l | that and how Apple does their graphcis (PDF / Postscript) seem like the best way to tackle different resolutions. | 21:01 |
| jrwren | its not how apple does different resolutions though. | 21:02 |
| snap-l | Right | 21:02 |
| snap-l | I know that's how they scale their icons, though | 21:03 |
| snap-l | Wonder how much work it would be to apply a SVG-like canvas to mobile devices | 21:05 |
| snap-l | so instead of saying "plot this bitmap at 40x50", you could say "object blah blah is this size relative to the canvas, and is relatively in this position" | 21:05 |
| snap-l | maybe my request answers my question of how much work it would be. ;) | 21:06 |
| brousch | You can make a GUI using percentages and relative sizes with Kivy | 21:08 |
| jrwren | snap-l: no, you are wrong. | 21:08 |
| jrwren | that is now how apple scales their icons. | 21:08 |
| jrwren | at least not on iOS. | 21:08 |
| jrwren | apple does not scale their icons. | 21:08 |
| jrwren | you ship every needed icon resolution with your appl. | 21:08 |
| snap-l | jrwren: On OSX I believe that's how it works | 21:08 |
| jrwren | with your app. | 21:08 |
| snap-l | Yeah, and I think that's dumb. :) | 21:08 |
| jrwren | yeah, on OSX, it must. | 21:08 |
| jrwren | i mean zooming the dock is the example, right? | 21:08 |
| snap-l | right | 21:08 |
| snap-l | I know that's how it's done on Android, because when I dumped JoDee's SD card for images there were a ton of differnet sized icons | 21:09 |
| brousch | http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/ui_guidelines/icon_design.html | 21:15 |
| brousch | You need like half a dozen different icons, and then you need to make them for multiple different densities | 21:16 |
| snap-l | yeah, that's dumb | 21:16 |
| snap-l | SVG all the things. ;) | 21:17 |
| brousch | They suggest you use a vector image so that making all the static images will be easier | 21:18 |
| snap-l | I know this is probably to help make slower devices not have to work so hard, but I'd prefer it to render that stuff on the fly | 21:22 |
| brousch | a real developer would create one SVG and automate making the little ones from it | 21:22 |
| brousch | Actually a real developer would write a program to generate the SVG and the little ones | 21:23 |
| snap-l | A better way would be to have the environment handle this stuff so the developer didn't have to work so hard. :) | 21:23 |
| snap-l | And the resolution problem would disappear overnight | 21:24 |
| brousch | Well really it's the designer working hard, so who cares? | 21:24 |
| snap-l | Just seems like we make things hard on purpose. | 21:24 |
| jrwren | anyone deal with ubuntu preseed or kickstart and have any recommendations for me? | 21:28 |
| jrwren | gah, wtf, this can't 404, not allowed! http://people.canonical.com/~kirkland/ | 21:30 |
| snap-l | He's no longer with Canonical, afaik | 22:19 |
| * greg-g has a new email | 22:20 | |
| greg-g | greg@wikimedia.org ;) | 22:21 |
| jrwren | congrats greg-g | 22:29 |
| jrwren | when are you moving to AA? ;] | 22:30 |
| greg-g | give me a little time.... ;) | 22:35 |
| snap-l | Is that a promise? :) | 22:40 |
| greg-g | well, not totally, only a "not-SF" promise, destination may be non-A2 in the end | 22:47 |
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