[00:00] <popey> the back comes off these really easily
[00:00] <ali1234> yeah i know
[00:00] <ali1234> it doesn't go back on properly though
[00:00] <ali1234> mine creaks now
[00:00] <popey> yeah, mine needed a bit of coaching
[00:00] <popey> right, it's unplugged and screen off
[00:00] <ali1234> how will you know when battery is flat seriously?
[00:01] <ubuntubhoy> warning beep ?
[00:01] <ali1234> what if it lasts 2 days 4 hour
[00:02] <ali1234> reight then, switching to gnome shell
[00:02] <AlanBell> \o/
[00:05] <ali1234> well great
[00:05] <ali1234> font dpi is messed up
[00:05] <ali1234> everything is 1 pixel wide
[00:05] <ali1234> where is settings?
[00:06] <ali1234> how am i supposed to check for new messages in pidgin?
[00:06] <ali1234> i have to click activities every time, and then look at the bottom right?
[00:06] <ubuntubhoy> you still get notifications
[00:07] <ali1234> but they disappear
[00:08] <popey> ali1234: ping it periodically and record the time
[00:08] <ali1234> how do you get windows back after you minimze them?
[00:08] <ali1234> popey: ah, clever
[00:08] <ali1234> popey: but that will use battery ...
[00:08] <popey> it will
[00:08] <popey> wont do it often
[00:08] <ali1234> wifi is biggest drain after screen
[00:08] <popey> and no more than android would do, checking in for updates
[00:09] <popey> less
[00:09] <ali1234> and if it goes to sleep properly, wifi will stop working
[00:09] <ali1234> at least it does on android
[00:09] <popey> yeah, it hasn't yet ☺
[00:09] <ali1234> because you are pinging it
[00:09] <ali1234> i used to do this with n900
[00:09] <ali1234> it would change IP
[00:09] <ali1234> when wifi slept
[00:09] <popey> I'm not pinging it yet
[00:09] <ali1234> so i left it pinging
[00:09] <ali1234> you might have to run ping on the tablet and then record it on PC
[00:10] <ali1234> like once an hour or somethig
[00:10] <ali1234> gome shell is confusing
[00:10] <ali1234> i minimized firefox and now i can't find it
[00:11] <ali1234> i can't find the setting for font hinting
[00:11] <ali1234> every time a window goes behind another window i can't get it back
[00:12] <ali1234> this is like unity except a million times worse :(
[00:13] <ali1234> ah, gnome tweak tool to fix hinting
[00:13] <ubuntubhoy> do you have the sidebar enabled ?
[00:13] <ali1234> what sidebar?
[00:13] <ubuntubhoy> if so restore from there
[00:13] <ali1234> what is sidebar?
[00:13] <ubuntubhoy> you can have a dock like sidebar
[00:14] <ali1234> how would i know if i had it enabled?
[00:14] <ali1234> there is a sidebar type thing in activities
[00:14] <ubuntubhoy> push your mouse t the middle right
[00:14] <ali1234> if i click on firefox on it, it just opens a new window
[00:14] <ubuntubhoy> not that one
[00:14] <ali1234> nothing happens
[00:14] <ubuntubhoy> not enabled then
[00:14] <ubuntubhoy> enable it in tweak tool
[00:15] <ubuntubhoy> also minimising windows is not really the Shell way
[00:15] <ali1234> ok enabled it
[00:15] <ali1234> it doesn't work
[00:15] <ubuntubhoy> dynamically expanding desktop
[00:15] <ali1234> it only shows one firefox window
[00:15] <ubuntubhoy> you have both opened on the same workspace
[00:16] <ali1234> what do you mean both?
[00:16] <ali1234> i had about 4 firefox windows open, then i minimized them all
[00:16] <ali1234> now they are gone
[00:16] <ali1234> the sidebar only reveals the last one i minimized
[00:16] <ubuntubhoy> you should see all your windows in the activity view
[00:16] <ali1234> no, the minimized ones are just gone
[00:17]  * AlanBell wonders how to minimise a window
[00:17] <ali1234> right click on the title bar and then clik minimize
[00:17] <AlanBell> ah, thats how
[00:17] <ali1234> how do i open more than one firefox window at the same time?
[00:17] <ali1234> this is awful
[00:17] <ali1234> i really can't emphasize enough how bad this is
[00:18] <AlanBell> hehe
[00:18] <ali1234> this is like unity when it was released
[00:18] <AlanBell> so, I minimised some chromium windows, they still appear in the alt-tab list
[00:18] <ali1234> aaaaa
[00:18] <ali1234> so that's how you get them back
[00:18] <ali1234> i do not use alt-tab
[00:18] <AlanBell> alt+key above tab is actually useful, does the same as on unity
[00:19] <AlanBell> switches between windows of one application
[00:19] <ali1234> it never even occured to me that i would have to push a keyboard shortcut to unminimize windows
[00:19] <ali1234> what is this, 1987?
[00:19] <AlanBell> the alt-tab switcher is also grouped by application
[00:19] <popey> can you not raise them by clicking on them?
[00:19] <popey> at all?
[00:19] <ali1234> how can you click on a minimized window?
[00:19] <popey> oh
[00:19] <popey> fun
[00:19] <AlanBell> there might be another way, I don't really minimise windows
[00:19] <ali1234> when you minimize a window on gnome shell it totally disappears from every sidebar, panel, and "spread" view
[00:19] <ali1234> except for alt tab
[00:20] <AlanBell> they are in spread mode for me
[00:20] <AlanBell> minimise geany, go to top left corner, zooms out, there it is, click to restore
[00:20] <ali1234> ok, what extensions should i install?
[00:20] <ali1234> ideally i would like to kill the activity view entirely
[00:21] <ubuntubhoy> why ?
[00:21] <ali1234> because it's totally crap?
[00:21] <ubuntubhoy>  not really
[00:21] <AlanBell> first one you should install is of course https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/564/amazon-shopping/
[00:21] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[00:21] <ali1234> NO
[00:22] <ali1234> there is a remove activity extension but it 404s
[00:22] <ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/100/remove-activies/
[00:22] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/495/topicons/
[00:22] <AlanBell> try topicons
[00:22] <ali1234> it works
[00:24] <AlanBell> alt+f2 and run lg
[00:24] <AlanBell> that is the looking glass thing
[00:24] <ali1234> that's nice. how do i remove it?
[00:24] <AlanBell> esc to get rid of it
[00:25] <AlanBell> that is a javascript console for shell extension poking
[00:25] <AlanBell> alt+f2 and r to reload shell
[00:25] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/ is kinda nice if you like that sort of thing
[00:26] <ali1234> is it supposed to look like that or is it buggy?
[00:27] <AlanBell> it is supposed to look like that, all in one column rather than cascading out to the right
[00:27] <ali1234> is this some kind of elaborate joke?
[00:27] <ali1234> gnome developers = master trolls
[00:28] <AlanBell> it is a bit odd, but it is better than the unity apps lens
[00:28] <ali1234>  it's terrible
[00:28] <AlanBell> I refer you to my previous comment
[00:29] <ali1234> is there an extension that lets me put shortcuts on the top panel, instead of hiding them in activities?
[00:29] <ali1234> how am i supposed to search for extensions?
[00:29] <ubuntubhoy> google
[00:29] <ali1234> just type in "an extension that lets me put shortcuts on the top panel"
[00:29] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/ in the search box, top right
[00:30] <ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/472/apps-on-top/
[00:30] <ali1234> that's what i found
[00:30] <ali1234> does not do what i want at all
[00:30] <ali1234> the search results appear to be totally irrelevant for every possible search
[00:30] <ali1234> what is the thing on the left of activities actually called anyway?
[00:31] <ali1234> why are the icons in the top right really far apart?
[00:32] <AlanBell> search results are not great
[00:32] <AlanBell> I think the thing on the left of activities is the dock
[00:33] <ali1234> no apparently its called the dash
[00:33] <AlanBell> some of the extensions have a settings page that lets you tweak their parameters, there is a dash to dock extension that does some stuff with the dock thing
[00:33] <ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/307/dash-to-dock/
[00:33] <AlanBell> thats the one
[00:33] <ali1234> install that and gnome shell becomes only as bad as unity :)
[00:35] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/355/status-area-horizontal-spacing/
[00:35] <ali1234> much better
[00:35] <AlanBell> there is an extension for most things
[00:35] <ali1234> i still cant find one that puts launchers on top panel
[00:35] <ali1234> or one that kills activities
[00:36] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/358/activities-configurator/ perhaps
[00:36] <AlanBell> yeah
[00:37] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/local/ are all your extensions
[00:37] <ali1234> i have about 30 extensions installed and this thing still sucks
[00:37] <ali1234> 9 of them are turned on
[00:38] <ali1234> top icons doesn't kill the bottom hot edge
[00:38] <ali1234> now the icons have turned into white rectangles for no reason
[00:39] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/16/auto-move-windows/ is quite sweet
[00:40] <AlanBell> I have https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/5/alternative-status-menu/ installed too
[00:40] <ali1234> that ne comes by default on ubuntu
[00:41] <ali1234> https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4/panel-favorites/
[00:41] <AlanBell> gosh my sisters birthday
[00:41] <AlanBell> how do I write on someones wall on facebook?
[00:44] <AlanBell> I have no idea how people figure out how to use facebook and find desktop software applications confusing
[00:45] <AlanBell> argh
[00:46] <ali1234> i found an extension that changes the top panel colour
[00:46] <ali1234> unfortunately it only changes the background colour, not the text colour
[00:46] <ali1234> and it doesn't do anything for the bottom panel
[00:48] <AlanBell> maybe she has blocked people from writing on her wall thing
[00:49] <ali1234> i have
[00:49] <ali1234> well this sucks
[00:49] <ali1234> i loaded an extension that "removes activities button"
[00:49] <ali1234> then i loaded an extension that "replaces activities with an application menu"
[00:49] <ali1234> then gnome shell completely froze
[00:49] <ali1234> then i killed it
[00:49] <ali1234> now all my extensions have been reset to defaults
[00:50] <AlanBell> oh :(
[00:50] <ali1234> yeah i don't think i'll be using this any time soon
[00:50] <AlanBell> fair enough
[00:50] <ali1234> every single application enu has that same "single column" thing going on
[00:50] <ali1234> is it even possible to make proper menus with this?
[00:50] <AlanBell> yeah, menus are a bit odd
[00:50] <AlanBell> dunno, I got used to them
[00:51] <ali1234> this one actually isn't that bad
[00:51] <ali1234> i've noticed a pattern: all the good extensions are made by this frippery dude
[00:52] <AlanBell> I have several of them, yes
[00:52] <AlanBell> rmyorston
[00:52] <AlanBell> https://extensions.gnome.org/accounts/profile/rmyorston
[00:53] <ali1234> hmm
[00:53] <ali1234> well when i turn off the "remove activities" thing and run the "replace activities thing" then the activities menu comes back after some time
[00:53] <ali1234> seems like potential for conflicts between extensions is extremely high
[00:54] <AlanBell> if they are removing things, yes
[00:54] <ali1234> thing is, another extension can come along and put it back
[00:54] <ali1234> unintentionally
[00:54] <AlanBell> because extensions that add a something next to a something else won't have their reference point
[00:55] <AlanBell> I don't know what the loading order is either
[00:55] <ali1234> so can i just hack on any of these extensions?
[00:55] <AlanBell> sure, hack away
[00:55] <ali1234> where are they again?
[00:55] <AlanBell> they go in ~.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions
[00:56] <ali1234> how do i "reload"
[00:56] <AlanBell> alt+f2 r
[00:59] <AlanBell> and https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Development has some stuff worth looking at
[01:00] <AlanBell> night o/
[01:01] <ali1234> crashed again
[01:13] <ali1234> found a theme that looks semi decent
[01:13] <ali1234> it has versions for 3.2 and 3.4
[01:13] <ali1234> i have 3.6
[01:13] <ali1234> theme doesn't work
[02:27] <ali1234> https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694235
[02:27] <ali1234> now back on panel
[02:27] <ali1234> it's still the best
[08:27] <czajkowski> aloha
[08:46] <AlanBell> morning
[08:46] <brobostigon> morn9ng AlanBell
[08:47] <popey> \o/ ~9 hours and the tablet is still running
[08:48] <ali1234> not bad
[08:50] <ali1234> is the image release going to follow usual release schedule of getting released at a random time that nobody knows in advance whenever the release manager wakes up?
[09:02] <JamesTait> Good morning all! :)
[09:04] <daubers> o/
[09:06] <AlanBell> ali1234: I am looking forward to the big 24 hour countdown starting and all the media speculation about what the code will look like
[09:07] <jpds> AlanBell: C++?
[09:07] <AlanBell> doubt it
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> [er;
[09:08] <AlanBell> javascript and QML for the new bits
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> blah
[09:08] <MartijnVdS> Perl
[09:08] <jpds> Haskell.
[09:08] <AlanBell> cobol
[09:13] <JamesTait> Butterfly wings and the sun's rays.
[09:13]  * JamesTait picks up on the five-minute-old specualtion.
[09:26] <popey> ali1234: yes and no
[09:29] <ali1234> popey: yes and no?
[09:30] <popey> well, you imply we don't usually know when it's going to be released because it's some random time
[09:30] <ali1234> no, i imply that only one person knows when it is going to be released
[09:31] <popey> no, only one person has responsibility for making the release finally happen, the go/no-go
[09:31] <popey> sometimes there is a defined time
[09:31] <ali1234> yes. so everyone else in the world is waiting for that person to press yes/no
[09:31] <popey> and its not just the release manager who knows
[09:31] <ali1234> which they could do at any time
[09:32] <ali1234> only they know when they will do it
[09:32] <popey> based on a set of tasks they need to do
[09:32] <ali1234> so, if those tasks take longer or shorter, then even they don't know
[09:32] <ali1234> so in that case nobody knows
[09:32] <popey> yup
[09:32] <ali1234> for example "get out of bed"
[09:33] <popey> they tend not to sleep a lot on release week
[09:33] <ali1234> i was not implying that you pick a random time weeks in advance and then KEEP IT TOTALLY SECRET
[09:33] <ali1234> in fact quite the opposite
[09:37] <mungbean> guys, i'm thinking of getting a cheap dvd player from samsung as my existing one is broken. this one lets you also play .avi files in mp4 format via usb - does get_iplayer allow you to grab in this format without faffing around?
[09:37] <popey> mungbean: does it mention codecs?
[09:39] <mungbean> popey: The MPEG4 audio and video data compatible with this player are contained in AVI files. This unit
[09:39] <mungbean> can only play AVI format files with an “.avi” extension.
[09:40] <mungbean> uThe DVD-E360 can support the following resolutions: Up to 720 x 480 @ 30 frames per second and 720 x
[09:40] <mungbean> 576 @ 25 frames per second.
[09:40] <mungbean> thats all they say
[09:41] <popey> it can do mpeg2/4 and DivX
[09:42] <popey> http://www.samsung.com/sg/consumer/tv-audio-video/dvd-recorder-player/dvd-player/DVD-E360/XS-spec
[09:42] <popey> you can convert using ffmpeg, but that falls into "faffing around"
[09:42] <popey> by default get_iplayer grabs the stuff from BBC as h.264 I believe
[09:42] <mungbean> still might be worth a punt
[09:43] <mungbean> 29.99 in tesco
[09:43] <mungbean> ffmpeg seems to be increasingly crap on ubuntu
[09:43] <mungbean> need to compile yourself to get mp3 support etc
[09:43] <popey> nope
[09:43] <popey> there's a simple apt-get to make that work
[09:44] <popey>     Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264 (Main), yuv420p, 832x468 [PAR 117:117 DAR 16:9], 1401 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 1k tbn, 50 tbc
[09:44] <popey> thats something I grabbed from get_iplayer
[09:44] <popey> -rwxrwxrwx 1 alan alan 631650896 Dec 31  2010 Doctor_Who_Confidential_-_Christmas_Special_2010_b00wyhsz_default.mp4
[09:44] <popey> a while back
[09:44] <mungbean> so that looks like re-encode required
[09:45] <popey> yes, for existing media
[09:45] <popey> for stuff you download, get_iplayer has an option to spawn ffmpeg I believe
[09:45] <popey> so it can do it on the fly immediately after downloading has finished
[09:45] <popey> handy if you run get_iplayer as a cron job
[09:45] <mungbean> yep
[09:45] <mungbean> i have a mac mini under the telly, but i can't connect it to the telly
[09:45] <mungbean> cos i'm still old skool
[09:46] <mungbean> scart only
[09:46] <mungbean> its replacing a philips dvd/rw that has been awful
[09:47] <mungbean> hoped to use it for archiving but its so tedious to use. and now the drawer has broken
[09:47] <popey> archiving? stuff off get_iplayer?
[09:48] <popey> I have a friend who archives everything he records (pretty much) onto optical media
[09:48] <popey> but he records off FTA
[09:48] <mungbean> archiving off the tv box
[09:48] <mungbean> i have a topfield PVR
[09:49] <mungbean> however it has a usb port too (feels like usb1.1), for copying stuff off it.
[09:49] <mungbean> used to have a digifusion pvr with no usb port, hence the dvd/rw for backup purposes
[09:51] <popey> ah yeah, I had a Humax PVR which has a USB port, was painful so I never used it
[09:53] <neuro> i've still not figured out how to ftp SD stuff off my humax hdr-t2
[09:53] <neuro> like in an automated way, i mean
[09:56] <mungbean> humax runs linux i believe
[09:57] <mungbean> once i upgaded my toipfield software and was rather unstable, leading to deleted library, so i downgraded, but have become nervous since
[09:59] <mungbean> what version of python is recommended for learning now? (esp rasp pi owners) 2.x or 3.x?
[09:59] <bigcalm> Good morning peeps :)
[09:59] <mungbean> i remember there was a bit of backlash over 3.x due to non backward compatibility. i assume 3.x is the way to go though
[10:00] <neuro> mungbean: yeah, the hdr t2 does run linux iirc
[10:00] <neuro> but i'm not sure how ftp is implemented
[10:01] <neuro> lovely little errors when you connect, for example ...
[10:01] <neuro> hornet-wifi:~ neuro$ ftp pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us
[10:01] <neuro> Connected to pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us.
[10:01] <neuro> 220 Welcome to connection.
[10:01] <neuro> 500 Syntax error, command unrecognized.
[10:01] <neuro> Name (pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us:neuro):
[10:01] <neuro> i mean come on, syntax errors?
[10:01] <mungbean> that means unsupported feature requested e.g. REST
[10:02] <neuro> hmm, good point
[10:02] <neuro> if only the HD stuff wasn't encrypted ... :P
[10:03] <neuro> it completely falls over when you use ncftp
[10:03] <jpds> neuro: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525018_481040071944876_1233300931_n.jpg
[10:04] <neuro> ba da dum tsh
[10:04] <neuro> you've just reminded me of a german guy i play battlefield 3 with on the xbox
[10:05] <neuro> he would occasionally sing "if you're happy and you know it, say hooray"
[10:05] <mungbean> my one works in a weird usb attach mode that you need a special client to connect with
[10:05] <popey> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1351910088/3doodler-the-worlds-first-3d-printing-pen/
[10:05] <popey> golly, climbing fast
[10:05] <neuro> then he'd say "hooray!" in a daft wee kiddy voice
[10:05] <popey> that was 50K yesterday, now it's ~500K
[10:05] <neuro> mungbean: yeah, sounds like the old humaxes
[10:06] <popey> friend of mine made a linux client for the humax
[10:06] <popey> which is more reliable than the one humax shipped
[10:06] <mungbean> popey: is it real?
[10:06] <mungbean> seems to be ..
[10:09] <mungbean> i want one of these pens
[10:11] <ali1234> all humax stuff runs linux
[10:11] <ali1234> the HD recordings aren't actually encrypted, they just have the "do not copy" bit set
[10:12] <popey> the old Humax ones aren't Linux
[10:12] <popey> 9200T etc
[10:12] <ali1234> all the freesat and freesat+ ones are
[10:12] <popey> yeah
[10:12] <mungbean> "all humax stuff runs linux, except for the ones that don't"
[10:13] <mungbean> life is simpler without hdmi or HD
[10:13] <ali1234> all the currently available ones
[10:13] <mungbean> without HD telly, your recording all look nice
[10:14] <mungbean> my CRT telly has a nice picture when there's nothing to compare against.
[10:14] <mungbean> and DVDs look good on it
[10:14] <neuro> DVDs look good on my TV too
[10:14] <neuro> then again, i have what amounts to a 600 quid upscaler
[10:14] <neuro> (mac mini)
[10:15] <mungbean> neuro: how is the mac mini connected to the telly?
[10:15] <neuro> hdmi, audio goes via optical to my surround amp
[10:15] <mungbean> not sure if i can connect mine to my crt telly via composite
[10:16] <neuro> there are plenty of vga<->composite converters out there
[10:17] <neuro> or vga<->scart
[10:17] <mungbean> i think there's some issue with teh DVI signal it sends
[10:17] <bigcalm> VGA -> VHF -> TV tuner :D
[10:18] <neuro> here's one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-SCART-To-VGA-cable/dp/B0002W69MY
[10:18] <neuro> (ignore the low star reviews, they are from crazy people who thought they could use it to connect SCART devices to a VGA monitor)
[10:18] <neuro> wait
[10:18] <neuro> DVI?
[10:18] <neuro> how old is your mac mini?
[10:18] <neuro> ppc or intel core/c2d?
[10:19] <mungbean> ppc
[10:19] <neuro> oof
[10:20] <neuro> doubt you'd be able to play back anything other than SD with that
[10:20] <mungbean> i inherited it. its the only way apple kit comes into my house :D
[10:20] <mungbean> my telly is SD though
[10:20] <neuro> tch, good point :)
[10:20]  * neuro slaps head
[10:20] <neuro> so hdmi > vga > scart
[10:20] <mungbean> no hdmi i don't think
[10:20] <neuro> sorry
[10:20] <neuro> dvi > vga > scart
[10:21] <neuro> although a problem i note from that cable i linked to on amazon is no audio
[10:21]  * AlanBell wonders if popey's tablet is still pingable
[10:21] <mungbean> think i'll just not bother tbh
[10:21] <mungbean> and just use it as a get_iplayer archive
[10:21] <mungbean> and copy them to usb drive for watching
[10:22] <neuro> lol
[10:22] <popey> 64 bytes from 192.168.1.110: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=70.6 ms
[10:22] <popey> yup
[10:22] <popey> still going
[10:22] <neuro> whatever works for you i guess
[10:22] <neuro> popey: tablet?
[10:22] <AlanBell> yay
[10:22] <mungbean> i have a gadmei box already for watching my old pvr on a LCD monitor
[10:22] <popey> neuro: nexus 7 running ubuntu tablet os
[10:22] <neuro> saucy
[10:22] <mungbean> video?
[10:22] <popey> been pinging it all night since midnight
[10:23] <popey> to see when it dies
[10:23] <neuro> 70ms is a bit odd though
[10:23] <neuro> 802.11g?
[10:23] <popey> it might be on the other access point
[10:23] <Laney> what are you trying to test?
[10:23] <popey> just seeing how long it lasts
[10:24] <Laney> battery life?
[10:24] <popey> yeah
[10:24] <Laney> ah
[10:25] <neuro> how long so far?
[10:25] <Laney> is this what gets released tomorrow or something else?
[10:25] <popey> yes
[10:25] <popey> 10:22:57 < popey> been pinging it all night since midnight
[10:25] <popey> ^ neuro
[10:25] <mungbean> screen off?
[10:25] <popey> yes
[10:25] <neuro> doh, soz
[10:25] <popey> will test again with screen on later
[10:25] <neuro> maybe try and leave it running a video stream or something, like bbc news?
[10:25] <mungbean> nexus 7 is below recommended specs i notice
[10:26] <mungbean> 1gb ram vs 2gb
[10:26] <popey> yeah
[10:26] <popey> but lots of people have them, so handy for testing
[10:26] <mungbean> i wonder if there's any chance one day it might work on my touchpad
[10:26] <AlanBell> that is fine from the OEM perspective
[10:26] <bigcalm> Laney: never give popey a yes/no question
[10:26] <AlanBell> they don't want something that is recommended to run on current hardware
[10:26] <AlanBell> they want everyone to have a reason to buy new hardware
[10:26] <neuro> i could be tempted to blow the image onto mine, don't really use mine for much
[10:27] <neuro> popey: hmm, it seems i'm one to talk about access point speeds
[10:27] <neuro> 4 bytes from 192.168.2.37: icmp_seq=38 ttl=64 time=219.856 ms
[10:27] <neuro> 64 bytes from 192.168.2.37: icmp_seq=39 ttl=64 time=37.454 ms
[10:27] <bigcalm> Would be nice if it worked on the Xoom
[10:27] <neuro> 64 bytes from 192.168.2.37: icmp_seq=40 ttl=64 time=61.066 ms
[10:27] <Laney> it wasn't but he answered it as such
[10:27] <neuro> that's my ipad from a wired mac
[10:27] <neuro> vaaaaaariable
[10:28] <neuro> (and yes, i didn't copy/paste the '6' at the start of the first line, it's not an weird 4 byte ping)
[10:28] <bigcalm> Laney: rather like asking if somebody would like tea or coffee and them saying yes :)
[10:28] <neuro> YES, I WOULD LIKE TEA OR COFFEE
[10:28] <bigcalm> I need tea or coffee
[10:28] <bigcalm> Just not sure which
[10:28] <Laney> then they get a smack in the chops
[10:28] <Laney> :P
[10:29] <bigcalm> I couldn't do that to popey. He might have 2nd thoughts about performing a service for me
[10:30] <popey> we should install uptimed on peoples phones
[10:30] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1689592/
[10:30] <ali1234> lol
[10:30] <ali1234> my uptime was 29 days until xfce went crazy last night
[10:31] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1689596/  minus ansi rubbish
[10:31] <BigRedS> oh wow. not only did someone write that, they got it into debian
[10:31]  * BigRedS installs it everywhere
[10:31] <popey> :D
[10:31] <bigcalm> Compiz still has a habit of freezing but not crashing on me
[10:32] <bigcalm> Actually locking up the whole system enough that I can't get to a tty but the mouse still moves and Spotify keeps playing
[10:32] <AlanBell> so how does one use uptimed?
[10:34] <daubers> one does not simply use uptimed
[10:34] <daubers> or walk into mordor
[10:34] <bigcalm> sudo make me a cup of tea
[10:35] <BigRedS> The important part is getting the daemon running. getting data out of its db is an exercise that can be left for later
[10:35] <AlanBell> "uprecords" is the answer I was looking for
[10:35] <bigcalm> AlanBell: ta
[10:36] <bigcalm> Just installed it on 6 machines
[10:36]  * AlanBell will install it on a raspberry pi shortly for a customer project
[10:38] <popey> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1689660/  <- uprecords on my VPS ☺
[10:38] <popey> maths looks broken
[10:38] <popey>   down   -540 days, -16:-37 | since                     Wed Apr 25 00:31:12 2007
[10:39] <AlanBell> daubers: http://www.raspberrypi.org/archives/3291
[10:39] <daubers> AlanBell: Saw that :)
[10:40] <daubers> AlanBell: Nottingham Hackspace is _hug_ in terms of floorspace (and membership compared to Reading)
[10:40] <daubers> s/_hug_/_huge_
[10:42] <daubers> AlanBell: Wait till you see the floorplan for Reading Hackspace 2.0 :) It's _much_ better. We're just fundraising and waiting for the lawyers now
[10:44] <AlanBell> yay
[10:44] <popey> AlanBell: the broken link you found yesterday is now fixed
[10:44]  * AlanBell still thinks a hackspace should turn a profit
[10:44] <popey> thank you
[10:44] <AlanBell> popey: cool
[10:45]  * AlanBell is teh awesome at finding broken links in Canonical press releases
[10:46] <neuro> i just sent a tweet to This Morning
[10:46] <neuro> i feel dirty
[10:46] <Laney> we should have a press release testsuite
[10:47] <AlanBell> a slightly better website change deployment process would probably be a good thing
[10:47] <daubers> AlanBell: Theoretically yes :) That is the aim. You kind of have to spend money to make money when you start though.
[10:48] <daubers> though the profit goes back into tools and such like (as we're a non-profit)
[10:50] <AlanBell> yeah, most things need investment to start
[10:51] <daubers> We nearly broke even in the current Hackspace until they changed the rent arrangements
[10:51] <daubers> hence the move
[10:51] <neuro> bloomin' landlords
[10:55] <neuro> yikes, ebuyer are doing 7200rpm 4TB deathstars for 160 quid!
[10:55] <neuro> 4TB!!
[10:55] <popey> ooooh
[10:56]  * popey imagines replacing all 12 2TB disks in his btrfs array with 4TB disks
[10:56] <popey> Muhahahahahahahaaaaaa
[10:56] <neuro> yum
[10:56] <neuro> http://www.ebuyer.com/393234-hitachi-4tb-7k4000-desktar-hard-drive-hds724040ale640
[10:56] <neuro> promo code TOPDEAL at checkout brings the price down to 159.99
[10:57] <neuro> popey: what you do have your array in, a n40l perchance?
[10:57] <popey> n36l
[10:58] <neuro> do you have the "NO HOT SWAP" stickers on the caddies? I do on my n40
[10:58] <popey> no
[10:58] <popey> and I have hot swapped
[10:59] <neuro> interesting
[10:59] <popey> recently one disk dropped out of the array
[10:59] <neuro> i wonder if they've either downgraded the backplane or it's just a "we're not sure you should do this so we'll tell you not to" thing
[10:59] <popey> so I unmounted it, yanked 4 disks out, swapped them around and re-inserted, remounted, all fine
[10:59] <popey> maybe it doesn't work on windows ☺
[10:59] <neuro> good point
[11:00] <neuro> i haven't tested it because i only have two drives (250GB root, 2TB data)
[11:00] <neuro> i'm saying "good point" a lot this morning
[11:00] <neuro> it's a lovely little machine, just a shame they skimped on the brcm nic
[11:00] <neuro> it doesn't do jumbo :((
[11:02] <neuro> it's a lovely little machine though
[11:02] <popey> psu went in one ☹
[11:02] <neuro> o rly
[11:02] <popey> so now I have a dead one
[11:02] <popey> had to swap around to make a living one
[11:02] <popey> glad I had a second because the PSu isn't cheap
[11:03] <popey> or easy to get
[11:03] <neuro> frankenserver \o/
[11:03] <neuro> probably cheaper just to buy one for spares :)
[11:03] <neuro> i had a facepalm moment with mine though
[11:03] <neuro> and it wasn't anything to do with the machine
[11:03] <neuro> i forgot to send off my cash back form :(
[11:05] <bigcalm> Doh
[11:05] <bigcalm> It took a _long_ time to get my cash back back
[11:05] <neuro> speaking of doh
[11:06] <neuro> movie mix are showing D.A.R.Y.L.!!!
[11:06] <bigcalm> Goodness
[11:06] <neuro> probably one of the best additions to freeview in ages
[11:07] <popey> anyone got any cool "command line loves" for @uupc?
[11:08] <neuro> i found vmxtool this morning
[11:08] <neuro> handy for converting ova VMs to vmx
[11:08] <popey> (other than uprecords which I already added)
[11:08] <neuro> so makes life easier migrating virtualbox VMs to esxi
[11:09] <popey> neat
[11:09] <neuro> http://communities.vmware.com/community/vmtn/server/vsphere/automationtools/ovf
[11:11] <popey> prefer stuff that's in the repo and not behind some manky sign up page ☹
[11:11] <neuro> ooOOOOoooo!
[11:11] <popey> http://handbag.popey.com/ I know
[11:11] <popey> ☺
[11:13] <neuro> tch, ovftool it's called, not vmxtool
[11:15] <shauno> vmrun is my pet crush for vmware at the moment.  give me some command-line love for the desktop versions (sans Player)
[11:15] <SuperMatt> popey: I'm shocked that doesn't pull random handbag images from google
[11:15] <shauno> random handbags would be inappropriate.  they have to match his shoes
[11:16] <SuperMatt> oh of course
[11:16] <SuperMatt> how silly of me
[11:17] <neuro> lol
[11:18] <bigcalm> Bwuhaha
[11:18] <popey> heh, I can hear neuro doing a "tch" in a scotch accent
[11:18] <neuro> :)
[11:19] <neuro> if this were any other channel, you'd be getting some stern language from me for inappropriate use of "scotch"
[11:19]  * bigcalm relents and orders a new ps2->usb converter. Really wish I knew where my existing one went
[11:19] <popey> :D
[11:19] <Myrtti> scotch egg
[11:19] <Myrtti> scotch broth
[11:20] <popey> isnt it "scotched egg"
[11:20] <Myrtti> weird word the more it is repeated
[11:20] <neuro> Myrtti: it's not "scotchman" though, is it?
[11:20] <Dave2> maybe in popey land
[11:20] <Myrtti> even sounds wrong
[11:20] <popey> scottsish
[11:20] <bigcalm> popey: an egg covered in tape?
[11:20] <neuro> tartlet
[11:20] <popey> he's scotts... ish
[11:20] <neuro> tartlet
[11:20] <neuro> tartlet
[11:20] <neuro> the word has lost all meaning
[11:20] <Dave2> scotch tartlet?
[11:21] <neuro> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjzyAHKYJ8M
[11:21] <bigcalm> Hehe
[11:22] <davmor2> neuro: a tartlet is a scented wax cake that is put in an oil burner and heated with a tart burner or tealight as we call them :D
[11:22] <davmor2> morning all
[11:23] <neuro> wat?
[11:25] <neuro> just saw this on ze tv ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5OkA-b8pkE ... i love barr's ads
[11:26] <popey> can you translate it
[11:26] <neuro> i do hope you're not serious :)
[11:27] <popey> there were bits I didnt get
[11:28] <popey> ten heeds?
[11:28] <neuro> tin heads
[11:28] <popey> he's got bite?
[11:28] <neuro> think you nailed that one
[11:28] <popey> "he looks like me.. " the next line I had to see 3 times.. "that is you"
[11:29] <neuro> i am disappointed in you :)
[11:32] <mgdm> as am I
[11:32] <mgdm> :)
[11:32] <neuro> mgdm: what's your favourite barr's flavour (except irn bru)
[11:32] <neuro> the raspberry is particularly awesome
[11:33] <mungbean> what is there? tizer and irn bru?
[11:33] <neuro> but i found the apple very sour
[11:33] <neuro> mungbean: did you watch the youtube vid?
[11:33] <neuro> http://www.agbarr.co.uk/ces_brands.nsf/brands/brands-barr.html
[11:33] <mgdm> neuro: does red kola count?
[11:33] <mungbean> no, i am in open plan orifice
[11:33] <neuro> mgdm: of course :)
[11:34] <mgdm> neuro: then that :-) Though I've not tried a couple of the other ones
[11:34] <mgdm> I might need to do some research next time I'm in a shop...
[11:34] <neuro> all of them are available in can form
[11:34] <bigcalm> Is Barr required drinking north of the border?
[11:35] <neuro> bigcalm: i think there's possibly a bylaw or ordinance or something requiring each citizen to make one A.G. Barr's drinks purchase per year
[11:35] <mungbean> just watched it
[11:36] <mungbean> i love ginger beer. not enough pubs sell it
[11:36] <neuro> but they make good drinks (appleade and that manky ginger beer-alike irn bru thing from a year or two ago)
[11:36] <neuro> so being forced to buy wouldn't be necessarily a bad thing
[11:36] <neuro> would defo recommend the lemonade, cherryade, rasperryade and the red kola
[11:36] <neuro> pineappleade is pretty good too
[11:37] <BigRedS> mungbean: I thought it was everywhere these days?
[11:37] <BigRedS> All my friends seem to always be drinking Crabbies
[11:37] <neuro> I DO NOT UNDERSTAND VISITING PUB AND DRINKING NON-ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE
[11:38] <neuro> (actually, that's a lie in the interests of comedy, as I usually end up driving to pubs)
[11:38] <mungbean> alcohol does not seem to agree with me anymore
[11:38] <ali1234> what is red kola?
[11:38] <mungbean> gives me instant hangover
[11:38] <cliftonts> hey, does anyone know when all these extra scopes are supposed to be added to 13.04?
[11:39] <cliftonts> I've just installed it and was a little surprised it's not showing any extra results in the dash
[11:39] <BigRedS> neuro: Crabbies is alcoholic ginger beer
[11:39] <BigRedS> but I do it all the time; in those pubs I used to despise for selling coffe
[11:39] <neuro> BigRedS: d'oh!
[11:39] <BigRedS> now I go there and drink coffee
[11:39] <neuro> hehe
[11:39] <BigRedS> I feel terribly old
[11:39] <neuro> it's a "i still want to be social" thing
[11:40] <BigRedS> nah, it's that I don't feel hip enough to work from Starbucks
[11:40] <neuro> ali1234: it's a red drink - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Kola
[11:40] <ali1234> is it like tizer?
[11:40] <neuro> it's very tasty, has a wee nip to it
[11:40] <neuro> erm, sort of
[11:40] <bigcalm> Communist cola?
[11:41] <mungbean> fentimans also do alcoholic one
[11:41] <neuro> bear in mind that the Barr's drinks we get up here are different from the ones you get in engerland
[11:41] <mungbean> i've only ever had the non alco one though
[11:41] <cliftonts> guess everyone's busy then
[11:41] <neuro> the stuff that's bottled in england uses harder water (obviouslY)
[11:41] <cliftonts> AlanBell: Anyone home today?
[11:41] <neuro> and you don't get barr's drinks in 750ml glass bottles
[11:41] <mungbean> hard water is more tasty
[11:41] <neuro> lies
[11:41] <mungbean> nicer
[11:42] <neuro> when i worked in chelmsford, i ended up buying 2 litre bottles of volvic for 4 months
[11:42] <neuro> even for brushing teeth
[11:42] <bigcalm> It'll put fur on your kidneys
[11:42] <neuro> scottish water is legendary
[11:42] <neuro> tap water is very drinkable, none of this filter stuff you have to do down south
[11:43] <mgdm> I still prefer Stornoway's water to Glasgow's. But then, that's where I grew up
[11:43] <bigcalm> We don't filter the hard water we get in Shropshire. Have to descale the kettle a lot though
[11:43] <bigcalm> Almost wrote heavy water. I need to break that habbit
[11:44] <bigcalm> habit
[11:44] <Myrtti> we filter and still need to boil vinegary water every now and then
[11:44] <BigRedS> "Going to do a fire drill in a few minutes; you might want to put some shoes on"
[11:44] <BigRedS> point missed?
[11:44] <bigcalm> Haha
[11:44] <bigcalm> Just a little
[11:44] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: They're going to make holes in a fire? cool :)
[11:44] <bigcalm> We used to get warnings in my old job
[11:45] <BigRedS> I used to get warnings in m y old job 'cause I was the one who triggered the alarm
[11:45] <mungbean> i was a fire marshall when i worked in the gherkin so i'd get advance warning and get the lift down 5 mins before..
[11:45] <MartijnVdS> There are <i>signs</i> when there's going to be a drill here, but you never know for sure.
[11:45] <BigRedS> I always wondered what I'd do if the building actually caught fire, surely I'd hang around for a bit and then turn the bells off?
[11:45] <mungbean> otherwise 26 flights of stairs stuck behind fat blokes 2 abreast
[11:45] <mungbean> talking about golf
[11:45] <BigRedS> hahaha
[11:46] <mungbean> your calves would kil the next day, something to do with only using the muscle one way
[11:47] <mungbean> just like only ever lowering a weight rather than lifting it again in a gym
[11:47] <bigcalm> mungbean: abseil down the outside of the building
[11:47] <mungbean> lifts were better
[11:47] <mungbean> i tried to resign as fire warden and they didn't let me
[11:47] <mungbean> resign from a voluntary post
[11:47] <bigcalm> Cute
[11:47] <mungbean> so i just abused the privilege
[11:47] <BigRedS> haha. We used to do that to fire marshalls :)
[11:47] <BigRedS> "You can stop, but only once someone else is trained up to replace you. Go find a volunteer"
[11:48] <bigcalm> No other bugger wants the responsibility, so we won't let you give it up
[11:48] <mungbean> in a real fire,. fire marshalls should just run out as quick as poss like the rest of us
[11:48] <BigRedS> walk calmly!
[11:48] <mungbean> in a previous role i sat next to the exit, and although was a fire marshall, i used to get out before the lower floors were even on the stair care
[11:48] <mungbean> case
[11:49] <mungbean> thats the trouble in a really taller building, you catch up slower moving lower floors and it takes > 30 mins to get out
[11:50] <mungbean> yes java, i really want to install the Ask Toolbar and change my search engine
[11:51] <BigRedS> It was only the other day that it occurred to me why I'd never seen that problem
[11:52] <BigRedS> I haven't installed Java on Windows for about six years
[11:53] <bigcalm> Wee, just found a timepicker plugin to go with the jquery-ui datepicker. My job just got a little easier
[11:53] <mungbean> i have a laptop i need to use for vmware vsphere
[11:55] <BigRedS> Anyone know if there is a way I can make the ^ operator greedy? so ^something^somethingelse^  replaces *all* the somethings with somethingelse, rather than just the first? I keep overwriting mysql dumps assuming g works for that
[11:57] <mungbean> now everyone is awake, should i learn python 3.x rather than 2.x?
[11:57] <jpds> mungbean: Both?
[11:57] <mgdm> BigRedS: the ^ operator in what?
[11:57] <BigRedS> oh yeah, bash
[11:57] <BigRedS> I hate it when people do that :)
[11:57] <BigRedS> mungbean: Perl!
[11:58] <mungbean> perl is too obscure
[11:58] <mungbean> i used to do C programming but have forgotten it all as sysadmin and managemenet took over
[11:58] <mungbean> thought that python might be fun to learn
[11:59] <mungbean> by obscure, i mean not-readable code and regularly obfuscated
[12:00] <BigRedS> so just don't write it badly
[12:00] <BigRedS> I find it way easier to read Perl than I do Python, but that's probably because I never write Python :)
[12:01] <BigRedS> anyway, this is one of those pointless arguments... Is Python 3 Python's Perl6 or something? Why not learn the new one?
[12:01] <neuro> there's some woman on my telly who is saying H as "haitch", and is saying prices of things without using the plural of pound, e.g. "twenty pound"
[12:02] <mungbean> i thought there was backlash againt python3
[12:02] <AlanBell> cliftonts didn't stay long
[12:03] <mungbean> haitch and "sault" instead of salt are a terrible disease
[12:03] <ali1234> "this haitch cost twenty pound!"
[12:03] <neuro> wait
[12:03] <neuro> what's wrong with saying "sault"?
[12:03] <ali1234> how else would you pronounce it?!!?!?
[12:03] <AlanBell> mungbean: not really a backlash, just some libraries are not ported yet, like mysqldb which kinda holds back a load of other things
[12:04] <BigRedS> pft. dbs are overrated. Use flat files
[12:05] <mungbean> neuro, like sorlt
[12:05] <neuro> csv ftw
[12:05] <mungbean> AlanBell: its been out a while though
[12:05] <AlanBell> mungbean: yeah, it has
[12:05] <mungbean> hence my question
[12:05] <AlanBell> you probably don't need to care much
[12:06] <AlanBell> try starting with python 3, then use python 2 when you get stuck because you need something that isn't there yet
[12:06] <AlanBell> main difference is that print is now a function
[12:06] <AlanBell> print "hello world" -> print ("hello world")
[12:07] <mungbean> as it should be
[12:07] <AlanBell> yes, and with brackets works in python 2 as well
[12:07] <mungbean> some bloke in the office has a ridiculous cough that sounds like a dog barking
[12:08] <ali1234> it doesn't quite work in p2
[12:08] <MartijnVdS> mungbean: start meowing when he does
[12:08] <mungbean> h might chase me
[12:08] <mungbean> its making me feel sick
[12:08] <mungbean> the office is so loud right now , its like working in a pub
[12:08] <mungbean> hence the irc activity
[12:08] <ali1234> drunk people everywhere
[12:09] <mungbean> ^drunk^stupid then yes :D
[12:09] <MartijnVdS> is't not even friday
[12:09] <mgdm> this office is loud, hence I have headphones
[12:09] <BigRedS> Hm. mysql  Ver 14.12 Distrib 5.0.51 just produced a dump with a feature that mysql  Ver 14.12 Distrib 5.0.51a "doesn't yet support"...
[12:10] <mungbean> i'm leaving my current job for another piosition in the company but they won't let me leave yet..its a rubbish feeling
[12:10] <MartijnVdS> BigRedS: what like proper timestamps? ;)
[12:10] <mgdm> https://twitter.com/Funny_Truth/status/303315399011880961 <-- the headphone code
[12:10] <BigRedS> MySQL has int fields!
[12:10] <mungbean> anyone going to the devops london meetup on thurdsay?
[12:11] <BigRedS> Is this a regular thing? I want to go to a devops meetup to find out what devops is
[12:12] <mungbean> its semi regular
[12:12] <mungbean> last time saw loads of geeks who enjoy their job
[12:13] <mungbean> and free beer and pizza
[12:13] <BigRedS> Oh!
[12:13] <mgdm> Hmm, I will be in London then, but I'll be otherwise occupied
[12:13] <BigRedS> I need to get into devops
[12:13] <popey> ooh, libreoffice 4 landed in raring
[12:13] <popey> hm, beta2 maybe
[12:13] <BigRedS> I'm not in London until the weekend after next, but then I'll be there permanently :)
[12:13] <mungbean> devops = sysadmins who work for smaller companies and like to automate where poss
[12:13] <mungbean> and don't really get bogged down with hardware
[12:14] <BigRedS> devops = ruby devs with root
[12:14] <BigRedS> as far as I understood
[12:14] <mungbean> last time the talks were on metrics/monitoring (how to get rid of nagios for something better), and logsnatch
[12:14] <mungbean> *logstash
[12:14] <BigRedS> Ah, so it'll be a load of stuff I want to do at work but that they wont lket
[12:14] <BigRedS> *let me do
[12:14] <mungbean> yes
[12:14] <mungbean> to inspire you to get a different job
[12:14] <mungbean> i also have this for you...
[12:14]  * AlanBell wonders if that would be a good place to talk about exceptionalemails.com when it is done
[12:14] <mgdm> mungbean: were there any conclusions about what was better than nagios?
[12:15] <mungbean> mgdm: yes
[12:15] <mungbean> hold on , on both counts
[12:15] <BigRedS> yeah, I looked at devops jobs for a bit; I couldn't understand how they'd want me to join a team to do something involving "development" without mentioning which language they wanted
[12:15] <mungbean> everybody watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU8ihx3nT6I
[12:15] <mungbean> make time to watch it
[12:16] <mungbean> it's hard to argue aginst the argument that say if your workplace is lame and you can't fix it, then get another job
[12:16] <AlanBell> the juju stuff is all about devops apparently
[12:16] <mungbean> mgdm: watch http://www.slideshare.net/sihil/winning-the-metrics-battle
[12:17] <mungbean> its the smae talk, without the talking, just the slides
[12:17] <mgdm> mungbean: ta very much
[12:18] <mgdm> we have New Relic just now, which is pretty nice
[12:18] <BigRedS> Ah! Always feels weird watching a video at work about getting a new job
[12:18] <mgdm> but I still want something that does the 'OMG server down' warnings better
[12:19] <BigRedS> customers are brilliant for that
[12:19] <BigRedS> they really make sure you know
[12:19] <mgdm> heh heh
[12:24] <bigcalm> AlanBell: who watches the watcher? I hope your service provides 100% reliability :)
[12:24] <AlanBell> it provides 100% independence of your infrastructure
[12:24] <AlanBell> which is better than 99.99% reliability on the same infrastructure :)
[12:25] <bigcalm> AlanBell: as long as your service continues to run without fault
[12:25] <AlanBell> nope, if my service goes down for an hour, nobody cares
[12:25] <mungbean> i want a new job but having a new baby hence meh
[12:26] <bigcalm> AlanBell: if exceptionalemails.com goes down for an hour nobody will care?
[12:27] <AlanBell> probably not, it might do a few false alarms, it will come back on and emails will get delivered to it that were queued up etc
[12:28] <AlanBell> the thing is that you don't want to be in the same datacentre as it
[12:28] <popey> to the cloud!
[12:28] <AlanBell> and you don't want it alerting an address that is in your monitored infrastructure
[12:28] <AlanBell> popey: to a different bit of the cloud \o/
[12:29] <AlanBell> so you are in Amazon euro zone west or whatever they call it, if that goes down, but exceptionalemails.com is in hetzner in germany and it is alerting your gmail address then all is good
[12:29] <mgdm> AlanBell: that's pretty cool
[12:30] <AlanBell> when monitoring things independence is more important than reliability
[12:30] <popey> you should move exceptionalemails.com to australia
[12:30] <popey> nobody hosts stuff there!
[12:30] <AlanBell> I was thinking about having it in two places, you could choose where you want your account to be
[12:31] <AlanBell> so you could make sure you were not sharing a country with it
[12:31] <popey> I'd like mine on mars please
[12:31] <popey> I don't want to share a planet with it
[12:31]  * AlanBell uploads it to the ISS and takes out their comms
[12:32] <mungbean> AlanBell: not bad idea, but i wouldn't send internal emails like that outside of the company
[12:34] <AlanBell> mungbean: totally valid concern for some emails, yes
[12:34] <mungbean> generally my regular ones
[12:34] <mungbean> logwatch, bacula, etc
[12:34] <mungbean> fail2ban
[12:35] <AlanBell> those would be perfect, and I am going to have an option to not store the email content, so it would receive the email, perhaps test it for a few regexes the user wants to scan for, then log the date,time,subject and drop the email
[12:36] <AlanBell> perhaps keeping the full body of emails that are considered "fails"
[12:38] <popey> ubuntu tablet still responding to pings
[12:39]  * popey ponders waking it up to see what the battery gauge says
[12:39] <jpds> popey: SSH in?
[12:39] <mungbean> take a photo when u do
[12:39] <popey> 78%!
[12:39] <mungbean> wanna see how it looks
[12:39] <mungbean> or video :P
[12:40] <mungbean> i've seen the official vid, but thats not very real
[12:40]  * popey suspends it again
[12:42] <popey> jpds: I dont have ssh installed
[12:45] <davmor2> popey: trust you to want it on mars, I mean it could of been anything but you choose a choloate bar ;)
[12:55] <mungbean> anyone know how i would dismantle this? http://ubuntuone.com/6cpIPA0kt0WLis6ilh1UxC
[12:55] <mungbean> one is tap on/off, one is hot/cold
[12:55] <davmor2> mungbean: Sledgehammer?
[12:55] <mungbean> the on/off one is broken, there's no screw hidden inside either that i can see
[12:56] <mungbean> i tried twisting the hot/cold too far in case it unscrewed , but no
[12:57] <davmor2> mungbean: try looking online on the whole the taps ship with the shower unity.  Failing that try turning the handles before you move the to cowls that cover the actual tap part
[12:57] <mungbean> the shower is no longer sold by wickes :(
[12:58] <mungbean> the tap part seem to be solid, no rims or caps to take off
[12:59] <popey> just gave your picture to google image search
[12:59] <popey> your bathroom looks like a lot of things
[12:59] <popey> but a shower handle it does not
[12:59] <mungbean> lol
[13:00] <mungbean> there's also this one http://ubuntuone.com/5JKzxi09AG4j5zmwaKh7DO
[13:00] <davmor2> mungbean: wikes might not sell it anymore but they might still hold the instruction manual for it
[13:00] <mungbean> i'm gonna have the loft out at the weekend
[13:01] <mungbean> previous owner kept a lot of that stuff
[13:01] <popey> your shower looks like this pencil sketch of doctor who's sonic screwdriver apparently
[13:01] <popey> http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mam66ltKnq1rra8mlo1_500.jpg
[13:03] <AlanBell> mungbean: is there a screw right at the bottom
[13:03] <mungbean> google reverse search gives colour matches mostly
[13:03] <mungbean> AlanBell: nope
[13:03] <mungbean> the handles unscrew
[13:04] <mungbean> there may be something inside the smaller circular one but cannot see in there with a torch
[13:04] <mungbean> foudn a website called showerdoc i might send the pics to
[13:04] <AlanBell> cool bath toys btw
[13:04] <davmor2> mungbean: this might give you some clues http://www.ehow.com/video_2329566_replace-shower-valves.html
[13:05] <mungbean> lol AlanBell
[13:05] <mungbean> thankfully i was clothed
[13:06] <mungbean> man, both firefox and chrome show that vid at 3x speed
[13:07] <popey> works here
[13:08] <davmor2> mungbean: that might be separate taps so you might want to try and find a mixer one any how
[13:08] <AlanBell> https://ch.tbe.taleo.net/CH03/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICAL&cws=1&rid=587 canonical are hiring
[13:08] <AlanBell> well always hiring, but this is for someone who can build the stuff they just demoed
[13:16] <mungbean> nice to see ubuntu users at citrix ^^
[13:16] <amayer_> what is it called in 12.04 when i press [Alt] + [Shift] + [Up Arrow]?
[13:16] <amayer_> it makes it so i can see all windows on the current desktop.
[13:16] <amayer_> Im trying to get 12.10 to do that but i dont know what to search for because i dont know what its called
[13:17] <popey> isnt it called "roll up"?
[13:17] <popey> is it where the window rolls up so you only see the titlebar?
[13:18] <amayer_> no no.
[13:18] <amayer_> it shows all windows beside each other.
[13:18] <Oli> Shade?
[13:18] <Oli> That's what KDE calls it.
[13:18] <amayer_> lets say i have 3 applications open. it will fit them all on the screen but smaller. and if you click one it brings it to the front
[13:20] <amayer_> it spreads them out like this:
[13:20] <amayer_> http://techgage.com/reviews/gaming/steam_on_linux/steam_linux_ubuntu_06_thumb.jpg
[13:20] <amayer_> and if you click one it brings it to the front
[13:20] <Dave2> sounds like the Expo Compiz plugin
[13:20] <Dave2> this may or may not be current
[13:21] <Dave2> er, no
[13:21] <Dave2> Scale
[13:21] <Dave2> Always get those the wrong way round
[13:21] <amayer_> i was going to say expo shows all desktops(like workspace switcher)
[13:22] <BigRedS> that's what the windows key does in gnome3, if that's any help..
[13:27] <directhex> ... huh
[13:27] <directhex> i have a user whose laptop has become unresponsive and unusable since updating to 3.2.0-38
[13:28] <directhex> 3.2.0-36 is fine
[13:28] <amayer_> Dave2: YES!!! it is called scale.
[13:29] <amayer_> and they switch the shortcut key to [super] + [w]
[13:29] <mungbean> 386 processor directhex :P
[13:30] <mgdm> when was it 386 got removed?
[13:31] <mungbean> anyone know how i'd fix this theme problem(?) with LO calc http://ubuntuone.com/7TpmmBErgD3ewzfLqZvrXF
[13:31] <mungbean> look at the sheet tabs
[13:32] <popey> amayer_: it's always been super+w
[13:32] <popey> at least since 12.04, maybe before
[13:33] <amayer_> popey: on 12.04 you could press [alt] + [shift] + [up arrow] and it would do the same thing
[13:34] <popey> interesting
[13:34] <amayer_> i guess they removed it in 12.10 because <super>w did the same thing
[13:35] <popey> probably got lost in the migration from gconf to gsettings
[13:35] <directhex> mungbean, well, a core i5, but running an i386 kernel
[13:35] <amayer_> 12.10 doesnt use gconf?
[13:36] <jpds> amayer_: no.
[13:38] <amayer_> hm... does gconf-editor work with gsettings?
[13:38] <amayer_> i used that to check the key association for scale
[13:38] <jpds> amayer_: dconf-editor.
[13:39] <amayer_> i got gconf-editor out of the repo and it showed me all the compiz settings i was looking for
[13:39] <popey> you need dconf-editor
[13:39] <amayer_> ill switch it out. is gconf editor not supposed to work at all/should it be in the repo?
[13:40] <popey> there are some legacy things that still use gconf
[13:40] <popey> but compiz switched to dconf/gsettings
[13:42] <amayer_> jpds: popey: everyone: thank you for your help.
[13:43] <amayer_> ive been using ubuntu as my daily driver(work & home) since 11.04 beta release. i see i still have much to learn.
[13:43] <amayer_> im the only one in my office who uses GNU/Linux
[13:44] <jpds> Not many people who Linux where I work.
[13:44] <jpds> Oh wait...
[13:45] <ali1234> "A PKCS #11 module returned CKR_DEVICE_ERROR, indicating that a problem has occurred with the token or slot."
[13:45] <ali1234> never seen that one befoe
[13:45] <amayer_> Please Insert 1 Credit
[13:51] <mungbean> having some problems having my home space in /data/home instead of /home/mungbean
[13:51] <mungbean> any suggestions other than copying /data/home/mungbean -> /data/mungbean then remounting?
[13:52] <mungbean> ln -s /data/home /home doesn't fix problems
[13:53] <amayer_> I have another question:
[13:53] <amayer_> why do I get updates for "English language pack for Firefox" "firefox-locale-en" if i dont have firefox installed
[13:54] <jpds> amayer_: Because language-pack-en-base depends on it.
[13:54] <shauno> mungbean: a bind mount?  mount --bind /data/home /home
[13:54] <BigRedS> mungbean: what does    ls -ald /home   say?
[13:54] <amayer_> so its used for the general language pack for ubuntu. not just for firefox. right?
[13:55] <mungbean> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Jan 21 14:30 /home -> /data/home
[13:55] <mungbean> shauno, looks like a plan
[13:56] <shauno> just remember to make /home a directory instead of a symlink first, else you'll be trying to mount it to itself, which .. well I'm not sure I'd try
[13:56] <jpds> amayer_: Yes.
[13:57] <mungbean> shauno: create a black hole and end the worl
[13:58] <shauno> I can never guess if it'll eat your children, or actually work.  with a strong preference to not going there in the first place
[14:07] <popey> ali1234: http://www.old-dalby.com/images/Asfordby-Token%20machine.jpg
[14:07] <popey> real tokens and slots
[14:25] <mungbean> shauno: works :D
[14:25] <mungbean> although not sure how to use it in /etc/fstab
[14:27] <shauno> bind goes as the fs type, the rest is as normal
[14:27] <shauno> wait no, none as the fs, bind as an option
[14:29] <mungbean> got it
[14:29] <mungbean> /data/home /home	bind 	defaults,bind	0	0
[14:29] <mungbean> cheers
[14:35] <popey> czajkowski: what version of vbox you using?
[14:35] <czajkowski> popey: 4.1.22
[14:35] <popey> ooh, ye olde
[14:35] <czajkowski> popey: one that is currently torturing me and davmor2
[14:36]  * popey uses current one from virtualbox.org
[14:36] <popey> 4.2.6
[14:36] <czajkowski> was the one I just apt-get installed yesterday
[14:36] <czajkowski> and it's currently making mine and davmor2 life a hell
[14:36] <czajkowski> gah
[14:36] <czajkowski> bbiab
[14:36] <davmor2> popey: yeah that was my next plan if this continued to play up
[14:36] <czajkowski> davmor2: does that mean I'm going to have to make another 4 VMs
[14:36] <davmor2> nope
[14:37] <czajkowski> that;s ok so
[14:37] <popey> i have been using the one from virtualbox for months for ubuntu testing
[14:38] <SuperMatt> I have an important question: when do we get this lock screen in the desktop version? http://www.ubuntu.com/static/u/img/devices/tablet-branded-and-apps.png
[14:42] <czajkowski> davmor2: I cna log into quantal32 just no precise32
[14:42] <davmor2> ah might just be a naff iso
[14:55] <bigcalm> SuperMatt: how is that an important question? :)
[14:56] <popey> It's _a_ question!
[14:58] <kvarley> Does anybody know what the image that is being released tomorrow for the Nexus 7 requires in  terms of storage space?
[14:58] <kvarley> Can it be run on the 16GB Nexus 7 or will it have to be a 32 GB ?
[15:00] <popey> i have a 16GB Nexus
[15:00] <kvarley> popey: Does it / will it run?
[15:00] <popey> its running on mine now
[15:00] <kvarley> :)
[15:00] <cr0w13y> I have an 8GB nexus. I'm sure it can run on even less than that.
[15:00] <popey> its a preview though
[15:00] <davmor2> kvarley: I have a 16gb running Ubuntu now
[15:00]  * awilkins keeps taking the tablets
[15:01] <davmor2> Oi awilkins get back here with my tablet don't make me hurt you
[15:02] <kvarley> It's really hard to know whether to pick up a Nexus 7 or 10 or wait until newer hardware comes out, after the phone/tablet OS venture has become more nippy and stable
[15:02] <awilkins> Ooh, Google PLay has the Nexus 4 "ships in less than one week"
[15:03] <awilkins> The 16GB storage maximum and no SD slot frustrate me though
[15:03] <popey> well what we're releasing tomorrow is a developer preview
[15:03] <popey> i.e. not finished
[15:03] <kvarley> awilkins: I'm in the same boat as you
[15:03] <kvarley> No external storage slot is just madness
[15:04] <kvarley> popey: Ok :)
[15:04] <awilkins> kvarley, It's a nice, reasonably priced, handset
[15:04] <kvarley> Nexus 4 has dropped in price too, less than £300 :)
[15:04] <SuperMatt> I worry that there's going to be a number of people "reviewing" the dev release tomorrow, as if it's the final version
[15:04] <awilkins> Yeah
[15:04] <Myrtti> the answer to that frustration is called DLNA/uPnP
[15:04] <awilkins> I need a new phone
[15:04] <kvarley> awilkins: I could do with one this year but I'm not in a rush
[15:04] <awilkins> Myrtti, but DLNA is no good if you're like me and compulsively carry your whole 13GB music collection around
[15:05] <awilkins> kvarley, I'm still on an N900
[15:05] <Myrtti> awilkins: Google Music / Spotify released me from that
[15:05] <awilkins> kvarley, It's starting to show it's age in terms of software and ability
[15:05] <awilkins> Myrtti, which country are you in?
[15:05] <Myrtti> UK?
[15:05] <awilkins> What data plan?
[15:06] <Myrtti> Three something. You can set both Google Music and Spotify to keep offline versions of your favourite songs.
[15:06] <kvarley> awilkins: Oh, I'm on a Desire S
[15:06] <awilkins> kvarley, The wifelet has a Desire Z
[15:06] <Myrtti> I see no need to carry all of the collection since I don't listen to the whole 20+GB daily
[15:06] <awilkins> Myrtti, there is that.. I suppose I could just make it cache the top few GB by atime
[15:07] <awilkins> Myrtti, The occasions on which I would use the phone as a media player are mostly dominated by being on trains with *really* dreadful signal coverage
[15:08] <awilkins> Like going through the longest rail tunnel in Britain, which is flanked on either side by howling grim moorland of the kind where they shoot werewolf movies.
[15:09] <awilkins> These phones also use the micro-SIM format, which means I'd have to pester my network to send me a new one, which would be mildly annoying
[15:10] <Myrtti> I'm tempted to order Nokia's NFC/Bluetooth music receiver MD-310 to hook up to the AV receiver :-( but it is expensive.
[15:12]  * awilkins wonders if there are NFC hack projects available
[15:14]  * awilkins has resolved to stop dithering and may just go and order one
[15:17] <awilkins> As much as my engineers brain hates inefficiency and thus wireless charging, that is a cool looking charger https://play.google.com/store/devices/details/Nexus_4_Wireless_Charger?id=nexus_4_wireless_charger&feature=accessories
[15:19] <awilkins> And WHY OH WHY are the only Nexus 7 covers in stock _always_ the pink ones.
[15:19] <popey> yeah
[15:19] <popey> I have a bot currently poking that page every minute to make sure I know when it's in stock in the UK
[15:19] <mgdm> hah
[15:21]  * AlanBell ponders a nexus 10 purchase
[15:21] <Myrtti> awilkins: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Poetic-HardBack-Protective-Manufacturer-Warranty/dp/B008IEGS9W/ we've got these
[15:21] <popey> i have one I got in pcworld
[15:22] <popey> actually, dixons at the airport
[15:22] <AlanBell> want a play with a nexus 10
[15:23] <popey> they're quite nice
[15:23] <popey> way nicer than the nexus 4
[15:25] <AlanBell> all day battery on it, which is good
[15:25] <awilkins> Must be the cube law thing
[15:25] <awilkins> screen size increases by squares, batteries increase by cubes
[15:26] <awilkins> Encountered an iPad for the first time at length over Christmas
[15:26] <AlanBell> want one as part of my next generation point of sale plan
[15:26] <awilkins> Was very impressed with how much endurance it has
[15:26] <awilkins> Especially given that it was running a full 3D game for much of the day
[15:27] <awilkins> AlanBell, Next generation POS? Do tell.... (gets out patent notebook)
[15:28] <awilkins> I used to be impressed by PalmPilot units with an integrated wifi + barcode reader though
[15:28] <awilkins> thought the potential for medical applications would be great
[15:28] <AlanBell> well nothing too radical, just having floating tablets doing touchscreen POS with openERP at the back end and getting receipt printing done off something small like a raspberry pi
[15:29] <AlanBell> I am trying to put together a complete demo set of it, the software isn't quite fully baked yet for doing the esc/pos printer bit
[15:29] <AlanBell> need to figure out chip n pin too
[15:30] <AlanBell> want a complete Free Software retail solution
[15:31] <AlanBell> possibly running Ubuntu on the tablet with html5 openERP POS application
[15:31] <AlanBell> but I am not sure if it will lend itself to that, we will see
[15:32] <awilkins> I used to do smartcard dev but never really got as far as Chip&Pin
[15:32] <AlanBell> customers will probably end up just using android or iOS, but I would like to demo it on Ubuntu
[15:32] <awilkins> Was mostly the contactless things like Mifare1k
[15:32] <awilkins> *a WHOLE kilobyte of storage... apart from the overhead*
[15:53] <ali1234> AlanBell: but will it into bitcoin?
[15:55]  * awilkins keeps quiet about his plan to use the spare brain capacity of customers to mine bitcoin while the browse the shelves
[15:56] <AlanBell> bitcoin accepting POS sure, if a customer wants it :)
[16:15] <popey> 16 hours.. battery at 71%
[16:16] <clue_h> nice
[16:24] <AlanBell> 71% *remaining* ?
[16:24] <AlanBell> on, wifi connected and pinging?
[16:27] <AlanBell> anyone know how I do a drm.debug=6 dmesg
[16:27] <ali1234> what of it? it hasn't even been rnning a day?
[16:27] <popey> yes
[16:28] <ali1234> mine will happily go 4 days in android if i don't touch it
[16:28] <popey> thats nice
[16:28] <AlanBell> can't say I have ever tried running down the nexus 7, it spends quite a lot of time in the kitchen on power
[16:29] <ali1234> the battery lasts much longer than a typical pone
[16:29] <AlanBell> but that sounds rather encouraging
[16:29] <ali1234> well, android phone
[16:29] <popey> well, it has no 3g for a start
[16:29] <ali1234> yes 3g is a massive drain
[16:29] <AlanBell> ah, drm.debug=6 is a boot option
[16:29] <ali1234> more than wifi
[16:30] <ali1234> AlanBell: actually that's a module option, drm.debug means "pass debug=6 to drm module"
[16:30] <awilkins> Indeed, I just force my phone into 2G a lot of the time so it won't waste battery thrashing about finding a 3g tower over the Pennines
[16:30] <ali1234> on kernel command line
[16:30] <ali1234> you may be able to reload drm module with the option, or maybe set it through /sys/modules/
[16:30] <directhex> you can pass kernel options via an /etc/modprobe.d entry, as long as that module isn't built into the kernel
[16:31] <ali1234> yes, or you can just pass options on modprobe command line if you load modules manually
[16:32] <directhex> CONFIG_DRM=m
[16:32] <directhex> looks like it's not built in!
[16:35] <ali1234> it might be in the initrd though, and i don't think that gets automatically rebuilt if you edit modules.conf or modules.d
[16:35] <ali1234> or modprobe or whatever it's called now
[16:36] <ali1234> i had that trouble with usbhid
[16:37] <AlanBell> this is a bug with performance anxiety
[16:53] <BigRedS> if mysqldump spits out an error message but the dumpends with 'Dump completed on' is it likely it just skipped the error and carried on?
[16:53] <BigRedS> ah, I'm looking on the wrong dump. It's aborted :/
[17:09] <popey> bug 1130786
[17:09] <popey> annoys me does that
[17:16] <MartijnVdS> Not playing.
[17:25] <czajkowski> popey: never noticed that before
[17:25] <czajkowski> :)
[17:25] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: you never close rhythmbox? :)
[17:25] <czajkowski> I do
[17:25] <czajkowski> always
[17:25] <czajkowski> usually in fits of rage
[17:25] <czajkowski> it started to play christmas songs at me the last day
[17:25] <czajkowski> most upsetting you know :)
[17:28] <MartijnVdS> czajkowski: I just skipped one :)
[17:44] <bigcalm> Hehe
[17:45] <bigcalm> How does one tie xchat into the unity osd so that I'm notified when I'm mentioned etc
[17:45] <bigcalm> ?
[17:45] <bigcalm> Show tray baloons on: ?
[17:49] <bigcalm> Somebody say my name?
[17:49] <czajkowski> bigcalm:
[17:49] <bigcalm> Ta
[17:49] <bigcalm> Way over on the right hand side of the far right screen. Better than nothing :)
[17:49] <bigcalm> My fault for having a silly set-up
[17:52] <Azelphur> Interesting question, I want to share files with my neighbour, we have an ethernet cable between the two places, how do I do it in a way where we both keep our own internet connections and don't have DHCP wars?
[17:52] <BigRedS> carefully
[17:53] <BigRedS> do you both have additional ethernet sockets on your PCs?
[17:53] <BigRedS> that would be easiest - create a network of those two sockets with the crossover cable between them.
[17:53] <BigRedS> otherwise you need a router at at least one end of the cable, and to make sure your two dhcp servers have pools on different subnets
[17:54] <BigRedS> I've always been able to do the former, so I don't know how to do the latter
[17:54] <Azelphur> it doesn't have multiple nics, although I could do that
[17:54] <Azelphur> If it's just a case of different subnets that could be easy
[18:00] <jacobw> Azelphur: vlans + routing
[18:01] <jacobw> Azelphur: depends how many ways you have to split the ethernet domain up :|
[18:01] <Azelphur> hehe
[18:01] <Azelphur> seems complicated and like the best way may be to just connect my file server to his router as a normal client
[18:01] <Azelphur> (and my router)
[18:38] <zleap> what is the executable file for startup applications
[18:38] <MartijnVdS> zleap: what do you mean? What do you want to do?
[18:39] <zleap> stop skype from loading up when i log in
[18:39] <zleap> i have  ubunru 12.04 with lubntu desktop
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> zleap: ~/.local/share/applications ?
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> lubuntu?
[18:39] <MartijnVdS> it's still probably in ~/.local/share somewhere
[18:39] <popey> maybe ask in #lubuntu
[18:39] <Flexa> hey guys, I have a dir with lots of sub dirs that I need to go through and rm -rf *.json.gz, any ideas? cant seem to figure it out...
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> Flexa: find /path/here -name \*.json.gz
[18:40] <zleap> popey, i have but as i have bits of lubuntu installed giving i installed lubuntu-desktop there is a solution somewhere
[18:40] <Flexa> thx MartijnVdS, will give it a go :)
[18:40] <popey> http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/linux-unix-how-to-find-and-remove-files/
[18:40] <MartijnVdS> Flexa: find /path/here -name \*.json.gz -delete if you want to delete instead of print their names :)
[18:41] <MartijnVdS> Flexa: also, "man find" if you're feeling adventurous
[18:42] <Flexa> great thx MartijnVdS :)
[18:42] <Flexa> great help
[18:42] <Flexa> thought there would be a way without having to use find :P
[18:42] <MartijnVdS> Flexa: there's find2perl.. you'll get a Perl script instead 8-)
[18:42] <Flexa> heh oki
[18:43] <Flexa> funny thing is I could do it in ruby
[18:43] <Flexa> but just not a one liner :(
[18:43] <Flexa> fail
[18:43] <Flexa> lol
[18:48] <RZAFC1> the webpages in firefox have some images that are blueish when I browse. i just install ubuntu 12.04 on my system any idea what's wrong?
[18:48] <MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: do you have an Nvidia graphics card?
[18:49] <RZAFC1> it's on ppc
[18:49] <RZAFC1> g4
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> like an old mac or something?
[18:49] <RZAFC1> everything is default
[18:49] <RZAFC1> ya
[18:49] <MartijnVdS> last time I used ppc was on a G3 imac.. long long ago
[18:50] <RZAFC1> is there a repo I can get that will fix it
[18:50] <MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: does it have ati video?
[18:50] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1691787/ is supposed to be dmesg output with drm.debug=6 set, but I don't see much drm stuff in that
[18:51] <RZAFC1> let me check
[18:51] <AlanBell> I edited the boot parameters at the grub screen and added drm.debug=6 as a new line on the end, dunno if it picked it up or not
[18:51] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: isn't drm a module? so you'd need to add it to /etc/modprobe.d/my-config-file.conf ?
[18:52] <MartijnVdS> + regenerate initramfs
[18:52] <RZAFC1> video works, it's slow but no sound
[18:53] <MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: can you put the output of "dmesg" and the contents of /var/log/Xorg.0.log on pastebin?
[18:54] <AlanBell> libkmod: ERROR ../libkmod/libkmod-config.c:686 kmod_config_parse: /etc/modprobe.d/drm.conf line 1: ignoring bad line starting with 'drm.debug=6'
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: yeah it should be:
[18:54] <MartijnVdS> options drm debug=6
[18:55] <AlanBell> libkmod: ERROR ../libkmod/libkmod-config.c:686 kmod_config_parse: /etc/modprobe.d/drm.conf line 1: ignoring bad line starting with 'options'
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> whu?
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> lots of files with "options" in that dir
[18:55]  * MartijnVdS looks confuse
[18:55] <MartijnVdS> d
[18:55] <AlanBell> ah, sorry, I missed the space
[18:56] <AlanBell> working now
[18:56] <AlanBell> lets reboot and see what happens . . .  o/
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: there's also /sys/module/drm/parameters
[18:56] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: you could echo "6" > /sys/module/drm/parameters/debug and see if that works
[18:58] <RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: I'm not using irc on that computer
[18:58] <MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: you can copy the files over.. or the pastebin links (they should be short enough to re-type)
[18:59] <RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: you think I should just reinstall ubuntu?
[18:59] <MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: that's a bit overkill I think
[18:59] <AlanBell> MartijnVdS: cool, got it working now
[18:59] <AlanBell> http://paste.ubuntu.com/1691907/ loadsa debug stuff
[19:00] <MartijnVdS> debugses!
[19:04] <RZAFC1> MartijnVdS:paste.ubuntu.com/161949
[19:04] <RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/161949
[19:05] <MartijnVdS> that's not dmesg _or_ xorg.log
[19:05] <RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: paste.ubuntu.com/1691949/
[19:06] <RZAFC1> MartijnVdS: http://paste.ubuntu.com/1691949/
[19:06] <RZAFC1> there it is sorry missed a number
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: Thanks that's dmesg :)
[19:06] <MartijnVdS> nothing strange in there I think
[19:07] <RZAFC1> so what do you think is the problem?
[19:07] <MartijnVdS> RZAFC1: if you could put /var/log/Xorg.0.log on there as well I might know more
[19:08] <RZAFC1> it said permission denied
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> hmm
[19:08] <MartijnVdS> I really don't know enough about ati-on-ppc, sorry
[19:09] <RZAFC1> ok
[19:09] <RZAFC1> thanx anyway
[19:14] <AlanBell> r
[19:14] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: Rrrr!
[19:15] <AlanBell> things have gone a bit funny
[19:15] <AlanBell> window manager borked
[19:15] <MartijnVdS> funny ha-ha or funny blegh?
[19:16] <AlanBell> blegh
[19:17] <MartijnVdS> AlanBell: (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZGhhXo-Bv0)
[19:19] <AlanBell> when I next have a window manager I will look at that
[19:20] <AlanBell> yay, fixed
[19:21] <MartijnVdS> *\o/* */o\*
[19:32] <AlanBell> https://plus.google.com/109175303602657131317/posts/Qfqath4iR1C that is what my screen looked like earlier, typing was off screen, couldn't move any windows
[19:34] <ali1234> woah
[19:34] <ali1234> that looks like hardware error
[19:34] <ali1234> or serious driver bug
[19:34] <ali1234> is that why you were debugging drm?
[19:35] <AlanBell> well, not exactly, it got that way after flipping between mirrored and dual screens
[19:35] <ali1234> only problem i ever have with nvidia is when it doesn;t work at all due to abi changes
[19:35] <AlanBell> when I boot up from cold it starts dual screens then flips to mirrored after about a minute, which is very annoying
[19:35] <ali1234> it ither works or it doesn't
[19:35] <AlanBell> does it in unity and gnome shell
[19:36] <AlanBell> once I put it back off mirrored and on to dual screens it then works fine, just does it once from a cold boot
[19:37] <ali1234> argh bitcoin is scraping $30
[19:38] <ali1234> if it goes over in february i win 0.1 btc
[19:40] <Azelphur> ali1234: xD
[19:40] <directhex> wish i had a gpu that could generate actual coinage
[19:41] <directhex> but with the difficulty where it is these days
[19:41] <Azelphur> ali1234: I've been holding ~60 BTC since £12
[19:41] <ali1234> mining alt chains is currently profitable on GPU
[19:41] <ali1234> but only just, and you have to mess around building modded miners and clients
[20:16] <shauno> scp between two remote machines, eg, scp a:file b:file .. does the transfer fgo a->b? or a->me->b
[20:18] <popey> run iftop on the middle one and see?
[20:18]  * popey tries it
[20:19] <popey> oooh
[20:19] <popey> interesting
[20:19] <popey> i get a key error
[20:19] <popey> implying a is trying to scp to b
[20:20] <popey> because me has the key for a and b
[20:20] <shauno> that sounds logical.  and matches me getting no route to b
[20:20] <shauno> er, matches my error, rather (me has a route to b  heh)
[20:26] <shauno> trying to move a large chunk of data from a to b.  a is ipv4-only, b is ipv6-only.  me can interact with them both fine, but doesn't have the disk space to do it in steps
[20:29] <popey> netcat?
[20:29] <Azelphur> don't suppose anyone knows how to do tabs in glade? I cannot find it anywhere, driving me nuts.
[20:31] <Azelphur> and as I ask, I find it, as is the usual :P
[20:47] <shauno> this would be much easier if I could figure out why the hetzner box has no ipv6 routes
[20:48]  * AlanBell has boxen in hetzner
[20:51] <shauno> it all looks good, just get destination unreachable for everything
[21:02] <shauno> so far I have http://paste.ubuntu.com/1692967/  which matches what they provide, right up until ip neighbour starts shedding bad news
[21:04] <AlanBell> alanbell@libertushost2:~$ ip -6 neighbor
[21:04] <AlanBell> fe80::1 dev eth0 lladdr 00:26:88:75:c3:9e router REACHABLE
[21:05] <shauno> yeah, reachable is what I want to see.  probe/delay I assume are "uh, hello?".  and failed is sadface.
[21:06] <dwatkins> shauno: how about using port redirection so the two hosts can copy between each other via the 'middle' one?
[21:08] <AlanBell> alanbell@libertushost2:~$ ping6 -c 3 -I eth0 fe80::5246:5dff:fe51:8790
[21:08] <AlanBell> PING fe80::5246:5dff:fe51:8790(fe80::5246:5dff:fe51:8790) from fe80::6e62:6dff:feb2:a8f4 eth0: 56 data bytes
[21:08] <AlanBell> From fe80::6e62:6dff:feb2:a8f4 icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable
[21:08] <AlanBell> I can't ping you
[21:08] <AlanBell> I think
[21:09] <shauno> I'm not sure that should work, fe80 is link-local
[21:10] <AlanBell> oh, so is 2a01:4f8:191:321::2 your address?
[21:10] <shauno> yeah.  that should answer
[21:10] <shauno> I don't expect it to, but it should
[21:11] <AlanBell> hmm, looks like I only have fe80 addresses
[21:12] <AlanBell> oh I need to request them from the robot
[21:16] <shauno> this was only provisioned 2 weeks ago, so it was all "there" out of the box
[21:16]  * AlanBell orders an ipv6 subnet
[21:16] <shauno> but oyu have a gateway, which is a good start.  just no address.  I have the opposite :)
[21:16]  * AlanBell now has an ipv6 subnet
[21:17]  * brobostigon has an ipv6 subnet already.
[21:17] <AlanBell> Useable IP addresses: 2a01:4f8:140:53c4::2 to 2a01:4f8:140:53c4:ffff:ffff:ffff:ffff
[21:17] <AlanBell> should keep me happy for a bit
[21:17] <brobostigon> :D
[21:18] <brobostigon> give every particle in my house an IP addr. :D
[21:18] <shauno> well, I've put a ticket in.  I just like to talk it through first, because most the time I'll find any forehead-slapping mistakes that way
[21:19] <AlanBell> not sure of the benefit of having an ipv6 server address yet
[21:19] <brobostigon> all mine are dual.
[21:19] <AlanBell> I think all IPv4 should be taken away from dynamic ISPs and given to servers
[21:20] <AlanBell> and people who want a static address
[21:20] <brobostigon> and ipv6 given to new. maybe yes.
[21:20] <shauno> then the servers should have ipv6 so they can answer the dynamic ISPs?
[21:21] <AlanBell> if you are on ipv6 can't you connect to ipv4?
[21:21] <shauno> without shims like nat64, no
[21:21] <AlanBell> oh :(
[21:21] <brobostigon> most are dual-stack, so i doubt it,
[21:21] <AlanBell> so servers really need to get ipv6 addresses and AAAA records in DNS
[21:21] <shauno> I mean, if you're only on ipv6, which is what taking the ipv4 away from isps would do
[21:21] <brobostigon> definatly alan
[21:22] <shauno> imho I think servers should be dual-stacked for backwards compatibility.  so you can still get mail from archiac networks, etc
[21:22] <brobostigon> aswell as software side, not just dns.
[21:23] <shauno> but if the clients are going to be ipv6, the server should be too.  else we waste all the effort of coming up with a New Idea by mangling it with ductape (toredo, nat64, etc)
[21:24] <AlanBell> interesting
[21:24] <brobostigon> as i said, shauno . software side aswell, should be capable of dealing with it.
[21:24] <AlanBell> I will endeavour to figure it out at some stage
[21:24] <brobostigon> this is why, i am playing with my vpn, being ipv4 and ipv6, and seeing hows the possibilities lay.
[21:25] <brobostigon> or giving botth types of IP.
[21:25] <shauno> I haven't tried it with the vpn yet.  but I have almost everything dualstacked other than that
[21:26] <jpds> openvpn has ipv6 support in the latest release(s).
[21:26] <brobostigon> shauno: it was curiousity more than anything, so on the movem i could use ipv6, when i not at home, with my ipv6 router.
[21:26] <shauno> my lightbulbs have v4 but not v6, which ruins a perfectly good joke
[21:27] <brobostigon> definatly shauno , lol.
[21:27] <AlanBell> http://community.plus.net/forum/index.php/topic,106125.0.html plusnet stopped their IPV6 experiments :(
[21:27] <brobostigon> :(
[21:28] <shauno> AA seem to be the only one consistently on the ball there
[21:28] <shauno> here, UPC have assured me they've at least heard of it.  and nothing more
[21:28] <jpds> AlanBell: Now, imagine the work every ISP has to do for v6.
[21:28] <brobostigon> native ipv6, aswell as, a given internal subnet, should be, what is standard now.
[21:30] <shauno> it already pretty much is.  everything I have (desktop, laptop, phones, tablets, appletv) already had ipv6, autoconfigured and quite happy.  the only missing link was to add a tunnel to my router so it could escape to the rest of the net
[21:30] <brobostigon> so ican atleast setup radvd, for a subnet more, than just an endpoint of a sixxs tunnel.
[21:30] <AlanBell> jpds: yeah, I did think that it was basically a replacement for NAT, and wouldn't affect servers much, but now I realise that you can't connect from ipv6 to ipv4 because the ipv4 wouldn't be able to return address it
[21:46]  * AlanBell boots into Unity for a bit
[21:47] <AlanBell> ooh, top bar shadow goes away when you zoom now
[21:48] <popey> i just had some madness happen
[21:48]  * popey saves it for a bug report
[21:49] <AlanBell> Bug #1124008 gets a bit meta
[21:50] <AlanBell> oh, ccsm has no icons :(
[21:50] <popey> it does here
[21:52] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/screenshots/Screenshot%20from%202013-02-20%2021:51:34.png
[21:53] <AlanBell> Unity is the one in the Desktop section without a checkbox in the 4th column of the middle row
[21:53]  * AlanBell tries the virtual machine test
[21:54] <AlanBell> nope, alt and super still get grabbed by the host :(
[21:56] <AlanBell> alt-tab works fairly predictably
[21:59] <AlanBell> huh, closing the dash is now two keystrokes
[22:00] <AlanBell> guess that makes sense for someone not testing it
[22:02] <AlanBell> so there is an SSH connections lens - that is kinda cool. but I don't know how it gets the list of connections, and it is wrong, and it trys to connect with my local user name not the remote name
[22:03] <AlanBell> and I have no idea how to find documentation about it
[22:04] <AlanBell> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~bernd-sch/onehundredscopes/sshsearch/view/head:/README would appear to be the documentation
[23:12] <Myrtti> vlc really doesn't like upnp or nautilus/samba
[23:13] <Myrtti> why can't I ever have nice things
[23:32] <Bodsda> AlanBell: ping
[23:46]  * redtape-renegade counts the amount of "message in a bottle/s" there are, on his desert island !!         ;)
[23:47]  * Bodsda wonders how many there were
[23:52] <redtape-renegade> Bodsda: the next island along is Ibiza .. who have a lot of bottles .. so I'm still counting .. damn archipelago      :D redtape-renegade  requires ♫
[23:53] <Bodsda> redtape-renegade: there was an interesting show on the other night about Ibiza and a flesh eating parasite catchable by brushing against indigenous plant life... go careful of the bush
[23:59]  * redtape-renegade heed's Bodsda's call.