[00:00] the back comes off these really easily [00:00] yeah i know [00:00] it doesn't go back on properly though [00:00] mine creaks now [00:00] yeah, mine needed a bit of coaching [00:00] right, it's unplugged and screen off [00:00] how will you know when battery is flat seriously? [00:01] warning beep ? [00:01] what if it lasts 2 days 4 hour [00:02] reight then, switching to gnome shell [00:02] \o/ [00:05] well great [00:05] font dpi is messed up [00:05] everything is 1 pixel wide [00:05] where is settings? [00:06] how am i supposed to check for new messages in pidgin? [00:06] i have to click activities every time, and then look at the bottom right? [00:06] you still get notifications [00:07] but they disappear [00:08] ali1234: ping it periodically and record the time [00:08] how do you get windows back after you minimze them? [00:08] popey: ah, clever [00:08] popey: but that will use battery ... [00:08] it will [00:08] wont do it often [00:08] wifi is biggest drain after screen [00:08] and no more than android would do, checking in for updates [00:09] less [00:09] and if it goes to sleep properly, wifi will stop working [00:09] at least it does on android [00:09] yeah, it hasn't yet ☺ [00:09] because you are pinging it [00:09] i used to do this with n900 [00:09] it would change IP [00:09] when wifi slept [00:09] I'm not pinging it yet [00:09] so i left it pinging [00:09] you might have to run ping on the tablet and then record it on PC [00:10] like once an hour or somethig [00:10] gome shell is confusing [00:10] i minimized firefox and now i can't find it [00:11] i can't find the setting for font hinting [00:11] every time a window goes behind another window i can't get it back [00:12] this is like unity except a million times worse :( [00:13] ah, gnome tweak tool to fix hinting [00:13] do you have the sidebar enabled ? [00:13] what sidebar? [00:13] if so restore from there [00:13] what is sidebar? [00:13] you can have a dock like sidebar [00:14] how would i know if i had it enabled? [00:14] there is a sidebar type thing in activities [00:14] push your mouse t the middle right [00:14] if i click on firefox on it, it just opens a new window [00:14] not that one [00:14] nothing happens [00:14] not enabled then [00:14] enable it in tweak tool [00:15] also minimising windows is not really the Shell way [00:15] ok enabled it [00:15] it doesn't work [00:15] dynamically expanding desktop [00:15] it only shows one firefox window [00:15] you have both opened on the same workspace [00:16] what do you mean both? [00:16] i had about 4 firefox windows open, then i minimized them all [00:16] now they are gone [00:16] the sidebar only reveals the last one i minimized [00:16] you should see all your windows in the activity view [00:16] no, the minimized ones are just gone [00:17] * AlanBell wonders how to minimise a window [00:17] right click on the title bar and then clik minimize [00:17] ah, thats how [00:17] how do i open more than one firefox window at the same time? [00:17] this is awful [00:17] i really can't emphasize enough how bad this is [00:18] hehe [00:18] this is like unity when it was released [00:18] so, I minimised some chromium windows, they still appear in the alt-tab list [00:18] aaaaa [00:18] so that's how you get them back [00:18] i do not use alt-tab [00:18] alt+key above tab is actually useful, does the same as on unity [00:19] switches between windows of one application [00:19] it never even occured to me that i would have to push a keyboard shortcut to unminimize windows [00:19] what is this, 1987? [00:19] the alt-tab switcher is also grouped by application [00:19] can you not raise them by clicking on them? [00:19] at all? [00:19] how can you click on a minimized window? [00:19] oh [00:19] fun [00:19] there might be another way, I don't really minimise windows [00:19] when you minimize a window on gnome shell it totally disappears from every sidebar, panel, and "spread" view [00:19] except for alt tab [00:20] they are in spread mode for me [00:20] minimise geany, go to top left corner, zooms out, there it is, click to restore [00:20] ok, what extensions should i install? [00:20] ideally i would like to kill the activity view entirely [00:21] why ? [00:21] because it's totally crap? [00:21] not really [00:21] first one you should install is of course https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/564/amazon-shopping/ [00:21] lol [00:21] NO [00:22] there is a remove activity extension but it 404s [00:22] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/100/remove-activies/ [00:22] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/495/topicons/ [00:22] try topicons [00:22] it works [00:24] alt+f2 and run lg [00:24] that is the looking glass thing [00:24] that's nice. how do i remove it? [00:24] esc to get rid of it [00:25] that is a javascript console for shell extension poking [00:25] alt+f2 and r to reload shell [00:25] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/6/applications-menu/ is kinda nice if you like that sort of thing [00:26] is it supposed to look like that or is it buggy? [00:27] it is supposed to look like that, all in one column rather than cascading out to the right [00:27] is this some kind of elaborate joke? [00:27] gnome developers = master trolls [00:28] it is a bit odd, but it is better than the unity apps lens [00:28] it's terrible [00:28] I refer you to my previous comment [00:29] is there an extension that lets me put shortcuts on the top panel, instead of hiding them in activities? [00:29] how am i supposed to search for extensions? [00:29] google [00:29] just type in "an extension that lets me put shortcuts on the top panel" [00:29] https://extensions.gnome.org/ in the search box, top right [00:30] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/472/apps-on-top/ [00:30] that's what i found [00:30] does not do what i want at all [00:30] the search results appear to be totally irrelevant for every possible search [00:30] what is the thing on the left of activities actually called anyway? [00:31] why are the icons in the top right really far apart? [00:32] search results are not great [00:32] I think the thing on the left of activities is the dock [00:33] no apparently its called the dash [00:33] some of the extensions have a settings page that lets you tweak their parameters, there is a dash to dock extension that does some stuff with the dock thing [00:33] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/307/dash-to-dock/ [00:33] thats the one [00:33] install that and gnome shell becomes only as bad as unity :) [00:35] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/355/status-area-horizontal-spacing/ [00:35] much better [00:35] there is an extension for most things [00:35] i still cant find one that puts launchers on top panel [00:35] or one that kills activities [00:36] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/358/activities-configurator/ perhaps [00:36] yeah [00:37] https://extensions.gnome.org/local/ are all your extensions [00:37] i have about 30 extensions installed and this thing still sucks [00:37] 9 of them are turned on [00:38] top icons doesn't kill the bottom hot edge [00:38] now the icons have turned into white rectangles for no reason [00:39] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/16/auto-move-windows/ is quite sweet [00:40] I have https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/5/alternative-status-menu/ installed too [00:40] that ne comes by default on ubuntu [00:41] https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/4/panel-favorites/ [00:41] gosh my sisters birthday [00:41] how do I write on someones wall on facebook? [00:44] I have no idea how people figure out how to use facebook and find desktop software applications confusing [00:45] argh [00:46] i found an extension that changes the top panel colour [00:46] unfortunately it only changes the background colour, not the text colour [00:46] and it doesn't do anything for the bottom panel [00:48] maybe she has blocked people from writing on her wall thing [00:49] i have [00:49] well this sucks [00:49] i loaded an extension that "removes activities button" [00:49] then i loaded an extension that "replaces activities with an application menu" [00:49] then gnome shell completely froze [00:49] then i killed it [00:49] now all my extensions have been reset to defaults [00:50] oh :( [00:50] yeah i don't think i'll be using this any time soon [00:50] fair enough [00:50] every single application enu has that same "single column" thing going on [00:50] is it even possible to make proper menus with this? [00:50] yeah, menus are a bit odd [00:50] dunno, I got used to them [00:51] this one actually isn't that bad [00:51] i've noticed a pattern: all the good extensions are made by this frippery dude [00:52] I have several of them, yes [00:52] rmyorston [00:52] https://extensions.gnome.org/accounts/profile/rmyorston [00:53] hmm [00:53] well when i turn off the "remove activities" thing and run the "replace activities thing" then the activities menu comes back after some time [00:53] seems like potential for conflicts between extensions is extremely high [00:54] if they are removing things, yes [00:54] thing is, another extension can come along and put it back [00:54] unintentionally [00:54] because extensions that add a something next to a something else won't have their reference point [00:55] I don't know what the loading order is either [00:55] so can i just hack on any of these extensions? [00:55] sure, hack away [00:55] where are they again? [00:55] they go in ~.local/share/gnome-shell/extensions [00:56] how do i "reload" [00:56] alt+f2 r [00:59] and https://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/Development has some stuff worth looking at [01:00] night o/ [01:01] crashed again [01:13] found a theme that looks semi decent [01:13] it has versions for 3.2 and 3.4 [01:13] i have 3.6 [01:13] theme doesn't work === Lcawte is now known as Lcawte|Away [02:27] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=694235 [02:27] now back on panel [02:27] it's still the best [02:27] Gnome bug 694235 in general "Extensions do not obey the shell theme." [Normal,Unconfirmed] [08:27] aloha [08:46] morning [08:46] morn9ng AlanBell [08:47] \o/ ~9 hours and the tablet is still running [08:48] not bad [08:50] is the image release going to follow usual release schedule of getting released at a random time that nobody knows in advance whenever the release manager wakes up? [09:02] Good morning all! :) [09:04] o/ [09:06] ali1234: I am looking forward to the big 24 hour countdown starting and all the media speculation about what the code will look like [09:07] AlanBell: C++? [09:07] doubt it [09:08] [er; [09:08] javascript and QML for the new bits [09:08] blah [09:08] Perl [09:08] Haskell. [09:08] cobol [09:13] Butterfly wings and the sun's rays. [09:13] * JamesTait picks up on the five-minute-old specualtion. === michelle is now known as Guest40647 === Guest40647 is now known as michelle_ [09:26] ali1234: yes and no [09:29] popey: yes and no? [09:30] well, you imply we don't usually know when it's going to be released because it's some random time [09:30] no, i imply that only one person knows when it is going to be released [09:31] no, only one person has responsibility for making the release finally happen, the go/no-go [09:31] sometimes there is a defined time [09:31] yes. so everyone else in the world is waiting for that person to press yes/no [09:31] and its not just the release manager who knows [09:31] which they could do at any time [09:32] only they know when they will do it [09:32] based on a set of tasks they need to do [09:32] so, if those tasks take longer or shorter, then even they don't know [09:32] so in that case nobody knows [09:32] yup [09:32] for example "get out of bed" [09:33] they tend not to sleep a lot on release week [09:33] i was not implying that you pick a random time weeks in advance and then KEEP IT TOTALLY SECRET [09:33] in fact quite the opposite [09:37] guys, i'm thinking of getting a cheap dvd player from samsung as my existing one is broken. this one lets you also play .avi files in mp4 format via usb - does get_iplayer allow you to grab in this format without faffing around? [09:37] mungbean: does it mention codecs? [09:39] popey: The MPEG4 audio and video data compatible with this player are contained in AVI files. This unit [09:39] can only play AVI format files with an “.avi” extension. [09:40] uThe DVD-E360 can support the following resolutions: Up to 720 x 480 @ 30 frames per second and 720 x [09:40] 576 @ 25 frames per second. [09:40] thats all they say [09:41] it can do mpeg2/4 and DivX [09:42] http://www.samsung.com/sg/consumer/tv-audio-video/dvd-recorder-player/dvd-player/DVD-E360/XS-spec [09:42] you can convert using ffmpeg, but that falls into "faffing around" [09:42] by default get_iplayer grabs the stuff from BBC as h.264 I believe [09:42] still might be worth a punt [09:43] 29.99 in tesco [09:43] ffmpeg seems to be increasingly crap on ubuntu [09:43] need to compile yourself to get mp3 support etc [09:43] nope [09:43] there's a simple apt-get to make that work [09:44] Stream #0.0(und): Video: h264 (Main), yuv420p, 832x468 [PAR 117:117 DAR 16:9], 1401 kb/s, 25 fps, 25 tbr, 1k tbn, 50 tbc [09:44] thats something I grabbed from get_iplayer [09:44] -rwxrwxrwx 1 alan alan 631650896 Dec 31 2010 Doctor_Who_Confidential_-_Christmas_Special_2010_b00wyhsz_default.mp4 [09:44] a while back [09:44] so that looks like re-encode required [09:45] yes, for existing media [09:45] for stuff you download, get_iplayer has an option to spawn ffmpeg I believe [09:45] so it can do it on the fly immediately after downloading has finished [09:45] handy if you run get_iplayer as a cron job [09:45] yep [09:45] i have a mac mini under the telly, but i can't connect it to the telly [09:45] cos i'm still old skool [09:46] scart only [09:46] its replacing a philips dvd/rw that has been awful [09:47] hoped to use it for archiving but its so tedious to use. and now the drawer has broken [09:47] archiving? stuff off get_iplayer? [09:48] I have a friend who archives everything he records (pretty much) onto optical media [09:48] but he records off FTA [09:48] archiving off the tv box [09:48] i have a topfield PVR [09:49] however it has a usb port too (feels like usb1.1), for copying stuff off it. [09:49] used to have a digifusion pvr with no usb port, hence the dvd/rw for backup purposes [09:51] ah yeah, I had a Humax PVR which has a USB port, was painful so I never used it [09:53] i've still not figured out how to ftp SD stuff off my humax hdr-t2 [09:53] like in an automated way, i mean [09:56] humax runs linux i believe [09:57] once i upgaded my toipfield software and was rather unstable, leading to deleted library, so i downgraded, but have become nervous since [09:59] what version of python is recommended for learning now? (esp rasp pi owners) 2.x or 3.x? [09:59] Good morning peeps :) [09:59] i remember there was a bit of backlash over 3.x due to non backward compatibility. i assume 3.x is the way to go though [10:00] mungbean: yeah, the hdr t2 does run linux iirc [10:00] but i'm not sure how ftp is implemented [10:01] lovely little errors when you connect, for example ... [10:01] hornet-wifi:~ neuro$ ftp pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us [10:01] Connected to pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us. [10:01] 220 Welcome to connection. [10:01] 500 Syntax error, command unrecognized. [10:01] Name (pvr2.gla0.uk.geekha.us:neuro): [10:01] i mean come on, syntax errors? [10:01] that means unsupported feature requested e.g. REST [10:02] hmm, good point [10:02] if only the HD stuff wasn't encrypted ... :P [10:03] it completely falls over when you use ncftp [10:03] neuro: https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/525018_481040071944876_1233300931_n.jpg [10:04] ba da dum tsh [10:04] you've just reminded me of a german guy i play battlefield 3 with on the xbox [10:05] he would occasionally sing "if you're happy and you know it, say hooray" [10:05] my one works in a weird usb attach mode that you need a special client to connect with [10:05] http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1351910088/3doodler-the-worlds-first-3d-printing-pen/ [10:05] golly, climbing fast [10:05] then he'd say "hooray!" in a daft wee kiddy voice [10:05] that was 50K yesterday, now it's ~500K [10:05] mungbean: yeah, sounds like the old humaxes [10:06] friend of mine made a linux client for the humax [10:06] which is more reliable than the one humax shipped [10:06] popey: is it real? [10:06] seems to be .. [10:09] i want one of these pens [10:11] all humax stuff runs linux [10:11] the HD recordings aren't actually encrypted, they just have the "do not copy" bit set [10:12] the old Humax ones aren't Linux [10:12] 9200T etc [10:12] all the freesat and freesat+ ones are [10:12] yeah [10:12] "all humax stuff runs linux, except for the ones that don't" [10:13] life is simpler without hdmi or HD [10:13] all the currently available ones [10:13] without HD telly, your recording all look nice [10:14] my CRT telly has a nice picture when there's nothing to compare against. [10:14] and DVDs look good on it [10:14] DVDs look good on my TV too [10:14] then again, i have what amounts to a 600 quid upscaler [10:14] (mac mini) [10:15] neuro: how is the mac mini connected to the telly? [10:15] hdmi, audio goes via optical to my surround amp [10:15] not sure if i can connect mine to my crt telly via composite [10:16] there are plenty of vga<->composite converters out there [10:17] or vga<->scart [10:17] i think there's some issue with teh DVI signal it sends [10:17] VGA -> VHF -> TV tuner :D [10:18] here's one: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hama-SCART-To-VGA-cable/dp/B0002W69MY [10:18] (ignore the low star reviews, they are from crazy people who thought they could use it to connect SCART devices to a VGA monitor) [10:18] wait [10:18] DVI? [10:18] how old is your mac mini? [10:18] ppc or intel core/c2d? [10:19] ppc [10:19] oof [10:20] doubt you'd be able to play back anything other than SD with that [10:20] i inherited it. its the only way apple kit comes into my house :D [10:20] my telly is SD though [10:20] tch, good point :) [10:20] * neuro slaps head [10:20] so hdmi > vga > scart [10:20] no hdmi i don't think [10:20] sorry [10:20] dvi > vga > scart [10:21] although a problem i note from that cable i linked to on amazon is no audio [10:21] * AlanBell wonders if popey's tablet is still pingable [10:21] think i'll just not bother tbh [10:21] and just use it as a get_iplayer archive [10:21] and copy them to usb drive for watching [10:22] lol [10:22] 64 bytes from 192.168.1.110: icmp_req=1 ttl=64 time=70.6 ms [10:22] yup [10:22] still going [10:22] whatever works for you i guess [10:22] popey: tablet? [10:22] yay [10:22] i have a gadmei box already for watching my old pvr on a LCD monitor [10:22] neuro: nexus 7 running ubuntu tablet os [10:22] saucy [10:22] video? [10:22] been pinging it all night since midnight [10:23] to see when it dies [10:23] 70ms is a bit odd though [10:23] 802.11g? [10:23] it might be on the other access point [10:23] what are you trying to test? [10:23] just seeing how long it lasts [10:24] battery life? [10:24] yeah [10:24] ah [10:25] how long so far? [10:25] is this what gets released tomorrow or something else? [10:25] yes [10:25] 10:22:57 < popey> been pinging it all night since midnight [10:25] ^ neuro [10:25] screen off? [10:25] yes [10:25] doh, soz [10:25] will test again with screen on later [10:25] maybe try and leave it running a video stream or something, like bbc news? [10:25] nexus 7 is below recommended specs i notice [10:26] 1gb ram vs 2gb [10:26] yeah [10:26] but lots of people have them, so handy for testing [10:26] i wonder if there's any chance one day it might work on my touchpad [10:26] that is fine from the OEM perspective [10:26] Laney: never give popey a yes/no question [10:26]