[00:42] <doomlord> does gl work on it
[01:56] <ptl> tgm4883: yes, there is
[01:56] <ptl> tgm4883: but it is opengl ES, not openGL
[01:57] <ptl> openarena, tuxracer, sauerbraten and the likes will not be playable
[01:57] <ptl> :(
[02:29] <doomlord> GL -> GL|ES requires a little reworking sure,
[02:29] <doomlord> but itts not so far
[02:30] <doomlord> my own gl code runs on desktop GL & GL|ES with a few defines patching over the minor differences
[02:48] <tgm4883> ptl, doomlord good to know. I'm guessing that doesn't bode well for hardware accelerated video playback (eg. mpeg2 and mpeg4)
[03:03] <doomlord> i'm pretty sure people will port GL to GL|ES in no time
[03:03] <doomlord> its non-destructive
[03:04] <doomlord> for me i did it because my 3d source is crossplatform between linux,mac,iOS and android
[03:05] <doomlord> heh, the big one is BLENDER .. will that run on a tablet..
[06:49] <SoulShadow> well i probably already know the answer because this channel doesn't seem focused to the same thing
[06:49] <SoulShadow> but since main #ubuntu is useless, has anyone installed ubuntu on a clover trail tab?
[10:13] <AlanBell> SoulShadow: is that an arm tablet?
[10:13] <AlanBell> ah no, that is the new name for Atom isn't it
[10:14] <AlanBell> so that should just be ubuntu desktop, 64 bit, booting from USB if you are lucky and there is no secure boot stuff going on
[11:28] <timhansen> any update on the touch developer preview release?
[11:32]  * timhansen poke
[11:35] <netcurli> it will be released today
[11:35] <netcurli> they are working on it
[11:35] <ali1234> anyone on quantal trying to use adb with nexus 7/android 4.2.2, you need to upgrade adb to the version from raring or it won't work.
[11:36] <ali1234> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/android-tools/+bug/1131163
[12:45] <fyksen> Hey! Is the image out yet?
[12:47] <ubuntubhoy> lol
[12:47] <netcurli> :D
[12:47] <chouchoune> haha, next question : what time ? ;)
[12:47]  * chouchoune joking
[12:48] <fyksen> A norwegian IT news site said that it was yout, but I couldn't find it.. It's a joke of a site, so not supriced..
[13:00] <Walther> I heard a rumour that the image-to-be-released doesn't have *anything* actually *functional* apart from the movie player
[13:00] <Walther> as in, you can't really add user accounts, edit contacts, etc
[13:01] <Walther> as in, being only really for dev and testing, not for enthusiasts
[13:01] <Walther> I'd love to have some clarification over that
[13:04] <AlanBell> Walther: it is pre-loaded with data from the Canonical's personas, Lola Chang etc
[13:05] <Walther> mmhm, can those be edited; as in, remove defaults and add own?
[13:05] <Walther> or is it really just a "demo" image for the time being
[13:06] <AlanBell> we will find out later I should think. I expect you will have a happier time with it if your expectations are to be able to ssh to it and deploy QML stuff and read the source of the core apps
[13:06] <Walther> Plus, what's the status of dualboot support? at least for the time being I'd really appreciate dualbooting possibility between stock and ubuntu
[13:07]  * AlanBell doesn't think that is possible
[13:07] <Walther> heh, of course. And one of the expectations is to actually poke through the UI and perhaps start writing and testing something
[13:07] <Walther> Hmm. There are multiROM things for android devices, it should be possible unless specifically restricted otherwise
[13:08] <ubuntubhoy> Walther: I think the Multi-boot on XDA should work once you have the image
[13:08] <Walther> and at least imho canonical would be shooting themselves in the feet by intentionally restricting the dualboot possiblity :P
[13:08] <Walther> ubuntubhoy: ok, let's hope so
[13:08] <AlanBell> Walther: it is nothing to do with restricting a feature that exists, ARM things don't boot to GRUB like intel devices
[13:09] <ali1234> they boot to u-boot
[13:09] <ali1234> which exists for tegra3
[13:09] <Walther> AlanBell: yup, i know, but I thought the default bootloaders and the multiROM things can still give the possibility
[13:09] <Walther> the dualboot support doesn't really have to be from GRUB per se, as long as there is a *way* for dualbooting
[13:10] <ubuntubhoy> there will be a hackable way
[13:10] <ubuntubhoy> there 'nearly' always is
[13:10] <Walther> mmh. I just hope that the official message from Canonical won't be "don't do it" but "you can do it if you want but we prefer this way"
[13:11] <Walther> Also, how's the device support going to be? Nexus 10 seems to be the main focus based on the pictures, how about Nexus 7?
[13:11] <ubuntubhoy> thats fine
[13:11] <ubuntubhoy> N7 is supported
[13:11] <AlanBell> Walther: they talked about N7 and N10
[13:11] <ubuntubhoy> it says so on the web page
[13:12] <ubuntubhoy> N7, N10, N4 & GNex
[13:12] <ubuntubhoy> all one image
[13:12] <Walther> Sweet
[13:12] <ubuntubhoy> interface is dependant on the device
[13:13] <Walther> Hm. How about support for other devices, say, Nokia's linux phone N9
[13:13] <ubuntubhoy> hacker community will need to do that
[13:13] <ubuntubhoy> right now it's just the 4 Nexus devices
[13:14] <AlanBell> the nexus devices are from different manufacturers and rather different hardware
[13:14] <ubuntubhoy> but TBH, I bet this is ported to a few devices within 24hrs
[13:14] <Walther> hacker community *will* do that, obviously, but what after then; will they stay as "custom ports with the responsibility being on the hackers themselves" or would it be possible to merge the couple lines of code to upstream?
[13:14] <Walther> yes, i'm *sure* within a day or two the image will be on a dozen or so other devices
[13:14] <ubuntubhoy> It will be like AOSP - there is the code, it's up to you
[13:14] <ubuntubhoy> no official support
[13:14] <Walther> but the main question is will the project go the android way or the cool way :P
[13:15] <ubuntubhoy> got to be that way
[13:15] <Walther> the problem with AOSP is that if you're dealing with a "custom port", even if it is only a couple lines different, you're (in some cases) restricting yourself out from the official updates and tied to the custom rom
[13:16] <Walther> well, it doesn't *have* to be that way. Think desktops- drivers for different HW are included in genkernel
[13:16] <Walther> and/or linux-firmware and whatnot
[13:16] <ubuntubhoy> But you can't expect official support for even a small %age of the handsets out there
[13:16] <ubuntubhoy> once they have an OEM or two on-board they will be the official support
[13:17] <ubuntubhoy> everything else will be hacked
[13:17] <Walther> at least in my humble opinion, it would be a big wildcard for Canonical to actually merge at least some of the community code for hw support, making it more of a "linux" distro
[13:17] <Walther> like it goes on the desktop
[13:18] <ubuntubhoy> they may via kernel stuff
[13:18] <Walther> someone adds support for something, makes a pull request, code gets reviewed, accepted, pushed, etc
[13:18] <ubuntubhoy> but I doubt official support will follow
[13:18] <Walther> I really, really hope the support for other devices will go the linux-on-desktop way instead of the android way
[13:19] <Walther> especially since the ubuntu tablet/phone project is still taking its baby steps in the real world, there's the chance of making it "right" from the beginning
[13:19] <Walther> (I wouldn't mid if you spread the word among the devs on this one, really.)
[13:20] <Walther> Of course I understand that *promising* official support for multiple devices would be painful and difficult, causing problems. But on the other hand, accepting pull requests to the upstream would be magnificent and a significant improvement over the AOSP / Android custom rom way
[13:23] <Walther> But I can almost bet that half or so of the "custom roms" of android for different devices actually share quite many lines of "custom code" that could have just been pulled to the official images/sources if someone were in that mood, but no. Instead aosp devs have to actually make separate images/sources per device
[13:27] <Walther> (I truly hope some devs are reading this and considering this change)
[13:36] <ali1234> they don't have to make separate sources per device
[13:37] <ali1234> they could all collaborate if they wanted to, even if google doesn't want to
[13:37] <ali1234> google can't stop everyone else froom sharing a repo
[13:37] <ali1234> the problem is custom android rom authors don't know how to, or do not want to collaborate
[13:37] <ali1234> a large number of them don't even release their source
[13:38] <ali1234> many don't even use the source and just use someone else's binaries to build their rom
[13:38] <ali1234> you can look forward to them doing all the same things with ubuntu, once it is released
[13:39] <Walther> mm.
[13:39] <Walther> But I really hope that there would be some sort of a centralized way
[13:40] <Walther> prett ypretty please for the canonical devs: make an "official unofficial repo" of sorts
[13:41] <Walther> so that the actual custom build sources could be shared with others and be collaborative and... well, you know, like you said about how AOSP devs *could* do it but don't because they're lazy or whatnot, if there was a centralized "sandbox" approved by Canonical, even if not supported per se, it could actually nudge the right people to the right direction
[13:42] <ali1234> no, it couldn't
[13:42] <Walther> It could make a *huge* difference. Especially now when the thing is not released yet.
[13:42] <Walther> care to elaborate on your opinion?
[13:42] <ali1234> android has this; it doesn't make a damn difference
[13:43] <Walther> Wouldn't hurt to try? :P
[13:43] <ali1234> custom roms need too much stolen proprietary software to even boot
[13:43] <ali1234> most of the "custom" in custom roms is used without any kind of permission
[13:43] <ali1234> the open source parts are usually not changed in any way
[13:43] <Walther> this wouldn't possibly be the case with ubuntu sources though, afaik?
[13:43] <ali1234> sure it would
[13:43] <ali1234> it needs proprietary drivers
[13:44] <ali1234> there is no reason at all to change the UI source code just to port it to another device
[13:44] <ali1234> the drivers are not open source
[13:44] <ali1234> porting ubuntu to, say, SGS3, would require building an image with samsung drivers in it, and not much else
[13:44] <ubuntubhoy> just switching libs
[13:55] <ubuntubhoy> TBF though, that is exactly the same as Linux distro's - just a change of theme and default apps in a lot of cases
[13:56] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, the difference is that proprietary drivers won't be available for the SGS3
[13:57] <ubuntubhoy> as they are not for loads of custom ROMs
[13:57] <Walther> whereas they are for nexi?
[13:57] <ubuntubhoy> but they hack them in
[13:57] <Walther> i thouhgt the nexus family was proprietary as well
[13:57] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, incorrect. There are proprietary drivers available for android for the SGS3
[13:58] <tgm4883> custom roms still use android
[13:58] <tgm4883> Walther, I believe the nexii family is pretty open
[13:59] <ubuntubhoy> Android yes, but when a Sense ROM is ported to Samsung say - the drivers are added
[13:59] <tgm4883> Walther, hence why the new nexus doesn't have LTE anymore
[13:59] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, a sense rom still runs android
[13:59] <Walther> The only thing I really want is proper support comparable to that of desktop distros.
[13:59] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, thats basically the difference between kde and gnome
[13:59] <ubuntubhoy> but is built with dif drivers
[13:59] <Walther> Not only hacked-together for specific devices
[13:59] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, no it's not
[13:59] <ubuntubhoy> tgm4883: of course it is
[14:00] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, do you understand how drivers work with the kernel?
[14:00] <ubuntubhoy> yes
[14:00] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, when sense is ported to sgs3, they use drivers from the SGS3 rom
[14:00] <ubuntubhoy> exactly
[14:00] <ubuntubhoy> not from the kernel
[14:00] <ubuntubhoy> from the ROM
[14:01] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, and?
[14:01] <ubuntubhoy> so they are basically copying bits and bobs from one ROM to another
[14:01] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, so?
[14:01] <ubuntubhoy> how does a Linux distro differ ?
[14:01] <ubuntubhoy> many, not all are just kitchens
[14:02] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, in regards to proprietary drivers?
[14:02] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, ah, you are under the impression that android is a linux distro
[14:02] <ubuntubhoy> no
[14:02] <ubuntubhoy> I am saying that a custom ROM is like a distro
[14:02] <ubuntubhoy> LIKE
[14:02] <ubuntubhoy> not the same
[14:03] <ubuntubhoy> I take Ubuntu and change it
[14:03] <ubuntubhoy> and call it a distro
[14:03] <ubuntubhoy> new wallpaper and apps etc
[14:03] <Walther> My point was basically that you can take a Ubuntu live cd and install it on a Intel machine with Nvidia gpu with Kingston RAM with ASUS motherboard with Seagate HDD
[14:03] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, ok, but you still want to take proprietary drivers from android SGS3 and use it on ubuntu?
[14:03] <ubuntubhoy> I was not going that far into it
[14:03] <Walther> or take the *same* image and install on a AMD cpu with mushkin ram with samsung ssd ...
[14:04] <Walther> And it still works. Even if you might *want* to add proprietary drivers to your GPU to have it supported more thoroughly, the same install image gets you a working setup on any PC
[14:04] <Walther> and *that* is what I'd love to see with mobile devices and ubuntu as well
[14:04] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, wasn't your point in that they could take and port the ubuntu image to an SGS3?
[14:04] <ubuntubhoy> tgm4883: my point was that ROM devs were stated as not being devs at all, I just said the same is true for many Linux distro's
[14:05] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, ah
[14:05] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, I misunderstood what you said then
[14:05] <ubuntubhoy> no worries
[14:05] <ptl> how do I dock my Ubuntu Phone / Tablet if neither Nexus 4 nor Nexus 7 have HDMI outputs?
[14:05] <ubuntubhoy> OTG cable and hub is how I do it
[14:05] <tgm4883> ptl, why would you need HDMI for that?
[14:05] <ubuntubhoy> but not HDMI
[14:06] <tgm4883> Walther, I see no reason that wouldn't work
[14:06] <ptl> OTG cable - got it. So 'docking' is just attaching keyboard and mouse?
[14:06] <ubuntubhoy> no
[14:06] <ubuntubhoy> you get all different kinds of docks
[14:06] <ubuntubhoy> some audio etc
[14:06] <tgm4883> Walther, in fact, there is a page for installing ubuntu on devices that there isn't an image for
[14:06] <ubuntubhoy> why do you want to dock ?
[14:06] <ptl> to check the 'desktop' interface on them
[14:07] <ubuntubhoy> are you confusing Ubuntu touch with Ubuntu for Android ?
[14:07] <ptl> is there any other way to change the interface than docking?
[14:07] <ptl> I don't think so
[14:07] <ubuntubhoy> you dont change the interface on Ubuntu touch
[14:08] <ubuntubhoy> UfA changes you Android interface to a desktop Ubuntu one
[14:08] <ptl> I thought you did. Thanks for clarifying though. :)
[14:08] <ubuntubhoy> once docked
[14:08] <ptl> I know
[14:08] <ptl> but judging from the videos it seemed that Ubuntu Phone would do the same thing
[14:08] <ubuntubhoy> Ubuntu Touch is a whole new OS for your device
[14:08] <Walther> tgm4883: the point was merely that there are no separate ubuntu images for intel, amd, ... asus, samsung, ibm, etc...
[14:08] <tgm4883> ptl, I'm unsure if there is a way to change that, but I've seen code that allows you to do that in a custom unity
[14:09] <tgm4883> Walther, because they are all basically the same, they follow a standard
[14:09] <ali1234> Walther: that's because PCs have a bios which hides hardware differences. ARM does not.
[14:09] <tgm4883> Walther, which is why you won't install ubuntu on an SGS3, you'll install it on <insert ARM chip here>
[14:09] <Walther> ah, there's no proper harware abstraction at boot-level
[14:09] <ali1234> it's also because all the drivers you need to make a PC work up to a terminal are open source
[14:09] <ali1234> this is not true for ARM
[14:10] <Walther> Hmm.
[14:10] <ali1234> you will have no visual display at all without proprietary drivers on most ARM socs
[14:10] <ali1234> and no sound
[14:10] <tgm4883> ubuntubhoy, I wouldn't go that far. Just a new DE
[14:10] <ali1234> and absolutely 100% no radio on any of them
[14:10] <tgm4883> It's still ubuntu underneath
[14:10] <ptl> you can get visual display using the framebuffer usually
[14:10] <ali1234> tgm4883: and underneath that it's android
[14:10] <ubuntubhoy> which is new on an Android device, no ?
[14:10] <tgm4883> ali1234, is it?
[14:10] <ptl> accelerated graphics are the ones that need proprietary drivers
[14:11] <ali1234> tgm4883: wait and see i guess
[14:11] <ubuntubhoy> I want the UI to be installable on the Desktop OS
[14:11] <tgm4883> ali1234, I doubt that. This is Ubuntu Table and Ubuntu Phone, not Ubuntu for android (which are very different projects)
[14:11] <ubuntubhoy> and be hot switchable with mhy current DE
[14:11] <ptl> Walther: the current state of Graphics support for Ubuntu on ARM is given by this URL: http://www.cnx-software.com/2013/02/14/open-arm-gpu-drivers-fosdem-2013-video-and-call-to-arm-management/
[14:11] <ali1234> tgm4883: well, i think you'll be in for a surprise
[14:11] <tgm4883> ali1234, I don't believe this is the demo that was shown at UDS
[14:12] <ptl> ali1234: it's the android kernel indeed
[14:12] <tgm4883> ali1234, I don't see why it would be better if it was
[14:12] <ali1234> btw, ubuntu for android is not android "underneath" - ubuntu and android run as equals in separate VMs in that configuration
[14:12] <ali1234> it isn't better
[14:12] <tgm4883> ali1234, yes I know
[14:13] <tgm4883> ali1234, but you access it from android.
[14:13] <tgm4883>  /speculation
[14:13] <ali1234> what does that have to do with anything?
[14:13] <Walther> I really hope that ARM would become open source'd as soon as possible.
[14:14] <Walther> Seriously, that's pretty much the last thing keeping ARM from truly overtaking x86(_64) PC cpus
[14:14] <ptl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch -- "Is this something to do with Linaro? " - A: "There does not appear to be any Linaro involvement at the moment but some parts of the Linaro toolchain such as the compiler are being used. The kernel being used on the demo systems is the Android Open Source Project kernel."
[14:14] <tgm4883> ali1234, only that what I believe we're getting today will remove your ability to get to android (as it will overwrite it)
[14:14] <ali1234> yes
[14:14] <ali1234> it will remove your ability to use android UI
[14:14] <ptl> ARM is patent-based
[14:14] <ptl> they don't build chips
[14:14] <ptl> the license them
[14:14] <ptl> *they license them
[14:15] <ali1234> but it runs on top of a minimal android system with a compatibility wrapper that allows ubuntu to use the proprietary android drivers
[14:15] <Walther> ptl: i know. They could still open-source their software
[14:15] <ali1234> remembe when they said "it can use android drivers"
[14:15] <tgm4883> ali1234, well if it's using underlying android OS, then there is no reason this wouldn't easily work on non-nexus devices
[14:15] <ptl> but it would be very nice if the MALI division of ARM would open-source their GPU drivers
[14:15] <Walther> would definitely not decrease their HW sales, on the contrary
[14:15] <ali1234> tgm4883: exactly, that's the whole point
[14:15] <tgm4883> ali1234, no, i don't remember when they said that
[14:15] <ptl> they almost do
[14:15] <ptl> but there are closed source parts in the X11 driver
[14:15] <ptl> the kernel part is open-sourced
[14:15] <k1l_> ali1234: it can run with android kernel and use their drivers
[14:16] <Walther> Btw, any ideas on merging #ubuntu-phone and #ubuntu-tablet into #ubuntu-touch?
[14:16] <k1l_> ali1234: its not an android "rom"
[14:16] <Walther> especially if they are essentially the same thing
[14:16] <tgm4883> Walther, no, they should be separate
[14:16] <ptl> Walther: they should all be in #ubuntu-arm :)
[14:17] <ptl> I am currently running a small domestic lab with ARM devices
[14:17] <tgm4883> ptl, in that case, lets axe #kubuntu as well
[14:17] <Walther> tgm4883: hmm, why?
[14:17] <k1l_> since tablet and phone and arm are different UIs with different systems underneath they should stay seperated. at least when hardware comes to the game
[14:17] <Walther> I do understand the not-merging-to ubuntu-arm
[14:17] <ptl> UG802, ODROID X2, two CuBoxes, Minix Neo X5, Nexus 7, Nexus 4, GK802, S21D/MK812
[14:17] <Walther> but -phone and -tablet should pretty much be the same, no?
[14:17] <SoulShadow> so ubuntu for phones/tablets can install right over android?
[14:18] <Walther> ptl: ooh, is the CuBox any good?
[14:18] <tgm4883> Walther, because when people come here for support, it would be better to have separate channels since they are separate devices?
[14:18] <Walther> tgm4883: hmm, point
[14:18] <SoulShadow> Walther: well, to be fair there's two versions of ubuntu for tablets
[14:18] <ptl> Walther: very good except for the processor: single core, low frequency :(
[14:18] <ali1234> what are separate devices now?
[14:18] <ptl> I am thinking of maybe buying an arndale board
[14:18] <Walther> ptl: still better than pi's cpu though
[14:18] <ali1234> there is #ubuntu-phone too?
[14:18] <ptl> is it any good?
[14:18] <SoulShadow> yes there is #ubuntu-phone
[14:18] <tgm4883> ali1234, yes
[14:18] <ali1234> why?
[14:18] <Walther> ptl: i've considered getting a one mainly for home server / nas purposes
[14:19] <ptl> Walther: sure, Raspberry Pi is ARMv6... all these devices if mine ar ARMv7
[14:19] <tgm4883> there is also #ubuntu-tv
[14:19] <k1l_> #ubuntu-arm is the desktop OS on ARM systems. its different from mobile devices
[14:19] <SoulShadow> because Ubuntu for Mobile
[14:19] <Walther> ptl: yup, i know
[14:19] <Walther> Btw, any news on the ubuntu tv project btw? :P
[14:19] <ali1234> there are too many thing and i am confused
[14:19] <ptl> k1l_: convergence, man, convergence :P
[14:19] <Walther> i've still not seen any images / any source / any devices *at all*, ever :P
[14:19] <popey> Walther: join #ubuntu-tv
[14:19] <Walther> and the thing was announced like ...a year ago?
[14:19] <popey> you haven't looked
[14:19] <ali1234> #ubuntu-phone is for ubuntu for android?
[14:19] <popey> no
[14:19] <ali1234> this channel is for ubuntu touch?
[14:20] <popey> we dont have a channel for ubuntu for android
[14:20] <ptl> Walther: there has been a small public repository set for it on 12.04. I could not install it
[14:20] <SoulShadow> ubuntu for android is basically #ubuntu-arm
[14:20] <k1l_> ali1234: its for ubuntu-tablets
[14:20] <ptl> Walther: I had to install in a VM... but it did not work (Ubuntu TV)
[14:20] <ali1234> so why are there two channels for ubuntu touch?
[14:20] <Walther> ptl: sad
[14:20] <popey> ali1234: historic
[14:20] <SoulShadow> because different devices, ali1234
[14:20] <SoulShadow> what don't you get about this?
[14:20] <Walther> ali1234: answered a minute ago or so; different devices
[14:20] <SoulShadow> phones and tablets are not the same, and the OS is not exactly the same either
[14:20] <tgm4883> ptl, what parts didn't work? I mean it's still early but it should have been functional?
[14:20] <k1l_> ali1234: its two different UIs
[14:20] <tgm4883> well, partially functional
[14:20] <popey> we could well merge the channels
[14:21] <SoulShadow> wait people are using ubuntu TV?
[14:21] <ali1234> SoulShadow: so why isn't there #ubntu-nexus7 #ubuntu-nexus4 #ubuntu-nexus10 #ubuntu-gnex - they are all different devices?
[14:21] <tgm4883> SoulShadow, early builds
[14:21] <SoulShadow> ali1234: because n7 and n10 are tablets
[14:21] <ptl> tgm4883: none, I followed the instructions and unity crashed on boot, wouldn't work at all. As I did not want to spend too long on it, I just destroyed the VM
[14:21] <SoulShadow> so, #ubuntu-tablet
[14:21] <SoulShadow> and n4 and gnex are phones, so, #ubuntu-phone
[14:21] <SoulShadow> they are different enough to deserve their own channels
[14:21] <ubuntubhoy> To me Tablet has grown out of Phone, hence the late announcement
[14:22] <k1l_> ali1234: its differnent device classes. like desktop and notebook.
[14:22] <ubuntubhoy> they got to a point and thought, 'we can use a single image for this'
[14:22] <ali1234> there isn't much difference between a tablet and a phone
[14:22] <ali1234> except that a tablet can't make phone calls
[14:22] <ubuntubhoy> rather than two different images
[14:23] <ptl> some tablets can make phone calls
[14:23] <popey> yeah, as I said, we could probably merge the channels
[14:23] <ali1234> indeed
[14:23] <k1l_> ali1234: ok, i think you just have to accept that :)
[14:23] <ptl> my old galaxy tab can do that
[14:23] <ali1234> is dell streak a tablet or a phone?
[14:23]  * AlanBell used to have a dell streak
[14:23] <tgm4883> ptl, no, they lack the cell chips to do that right?
[14:23] <AlanBell> phablet \o/
[14:23] <tgm4883> ptl, you were just using voip?
[14:23] <ali1234> or is it a phablet? :)
[14:24] <k1l_> AlanBell: we need more confusing on this one :)
[14:24] <Walther> Any info on at which hour the sources/images will be made public? It's *today*, but?
[14:24]  * AlanBell has confusion and befuddlement to spare
[14:24] <ali1234> 11:59pm
[14:24] <AlanBell> eastern
[14:24] <tgm4883> Walther, I'd guess in about 6 hours
[14:25]  * tgm4883 is trying to remember when regular releases happen
[14:25] <SoulShadow> depends on what timezone they're using
[14:25] <Walther> while i'm in a party. Great.
[14:25] <Walther> :D
[14:25] <AlanBell> when its ready
[14:25] <tgm4883> I think around noon eastern time
[14:25] <SoulShadow> noon eastern would be 2 1/2 hours
[14:25] <tgm4883> SoulShadow, yea, i changed my guess
[14:25] <ptl> tgm4883: no, my galaxy tab 1 had normal 3G and I did make phone calls with it
[14:25] <tgm4883> I just didn't tell you ;P
[14:26] <ali1234> hmm
[14:26] <ptl> I took the 3G sim off but it used to be my cellphone
[14:26] <tgm4883> ptl, nice. What network allows you to make calls over 3g?
[14:26] <ali1234> was there a new qt5 sdk released the other day?
[14:26] <ptl> in Brazil? All of them
[14:26] <ali1234> actually it's in a PPA so it should auto update right?
[14:26] <ptl> Vivo, Claro, Oi, TIM
[14:26] <tgm4883> cool
[14:26] <SoulShadow> you can always make a call over 3g
[14:26] <SoulShadow> it's called voip
[14:26] <SoulShadow> it's *always* voip
[14:27] <tgm4883> ptl, I don't think they allow that in the US
[14:27] <ali1234> backup up my nexus with carbon. the backup size counter has overflowed and is now going backwards
[14:27] <tgm4883> SoulShadow, true
[14:27] <ptl> What I mean is that I did not use any internet-wrapper like skype.
[14:27] <ptl> I used the native dialer
[14:27] <SoulShadow> did you use SIP settings?
[14:27] <ptl> no
[14:27] <ptl> It was a regular cellphone, just bigger.
[14:27] <SoulShadow> that's unusual
[14:28] <ali1234> nexus 7 has an option for 3G as well
[14:28] <SoulShadow> nexus 7 3g is data only
[14:28] <SoulShadow> so you would need voip
[14:28] <ali1234> that sucks
[14:28] <ubuntubhoy> how so ? If it is connected to the network it should work for calls as well
[14:28] <Walther> strangely enough, i did receive a couple SMS from my carrier :P
[14:28] <SoulShadow> ubuntubhoy: doesn't work that way
[14:29] <tgm4883> isn't all US 3g data only?
[14:29] <Walther> when I put in their sim for the nexus 7 3g
[14:29] <SoulShadow> no
[14:29] <ali1234> ubuntubhoy: radio rom needs voice codecs
[14:29] <SoulShadow> the SOC in tablets doesn't support voice calls
[14:29] <ubuntubhoy> so it's a ROM issue, and not a hardware one
[14:29] <ali1234> yep SMS doesn't need voice codec :)
[14:29] <SoulShadow> ubuntubhoy: no, it's a hardware issue.
[14:29] <ali1234> ubuntubhoy: it can be hardware issue too
[14:29] <ali1234> ubuntubhoy: mic is wired directly to radio chipset
[14:29] <ali1234> in phones that is
[14:29] <ubuntubhoy> hmm
[14:29] <SoulShadow> APQ8064 and Tegra 3 do not have voice support
[14:30] <ali1234> you can't inject wave data into phone call
[14:30] <ali1234> so you need hardwared mic
[14:30] <SoulShadow> unless paired with the proper baseband
[14:30] <ubuntubhoy> I am sure I have saw articles where a N7 has been used as a phone, and not via voip
[14:30] <SoulShadow> nope
[14:30] <ali1234> well, go find them for us then :)
[14:30] <ali1234> i don't know either way if it works or not
[14:31] <SoulShadow> it doesn't you need SIP or some sort of voip client
[14:32] <SoulShadow> so, no one seemed able to answer last night, anyone gotten ubuntu to install on a clover trail based tablet?
[14:33] <SoulShadow> i know intel said clover trail isn't supported but that's never stopped anyone before
[14:34] <ali1234> popey: has the ui toolkit sdk ppa changed?
[14:34] <ptl> http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2025377 -> it seems Nexus 7 3G has some limitations but these people are saying that in principle it seems possible (voice through 3G)
[14:35] <SoulShadow> ptl: they have to hack firmware into it
[14:35] <SoulShadow> lol
[14:35] <SoulShadow> the RIL isn't there
[14:35] <SoulShadow> and they're trying to build one
[14:36] <SoulShadow> and it's XDA
[14:36] <ali1234> backpedalling :)
[14:36] <popey> ali1234: changed how?
[14:36] <SoulShadow> that will not end well
[14:36] <ali1234> popey: as in the name/url has changed
[14:36] <popey> we've used a couple. the website links to current
[14:36] <popey> http://developer.ubuntu.com/get-started/gomobile/
[14:36] <SoulShadow> ali not backpedaling at all
[14:36] <ali1234> popey: sudo add-apt-repository ppa:ubuntu-sdk-team/ppa - i have sdk installed but i don't seem to have the ppa
[14:36] <ali1234> so am i on an old version of the sdk?
[14:37] <popey> possibly, yes
[14:37] <popey> we had one based on qt5 beta1
[14:37] <popey> then moved to qt5 proper
[14:37] <ali1234> that would explain why what i am trying to do is not working lol
[14:37] <popey> heh
[14:37] <ubuntubhoy> SoulShadow: apologies - SMS working and calls over voip or SIP.
[14:38] <SoulShadow> ubuntubhoy you could do SIP/VOIP without doing anything to it
[14:38] <SoulShadow> well, judging by this you need to change dpi settings but beyond that nothing
[14:38] <ubuntubhoy> I have a wifi only, but my memory on the Gizmodo article was poor
[14:39] <ubuntubhoy> not something I want, just thought I had read it
[14:40] <ali1234> hmm 256mb of updates
[14:41] <ali1234> when i backup to sd card with carbon, where does the backup go? and how to i get it to pc?
[14:42] <ptl> <- updating my Nexus7
[14:43] <ptl> I~ll probably reflash after ubuntu tablet preview is out... anyway...
[14:45] <ubuntubhoy> ali1234: you should be able to access the folder via a file manager
[14:46] <ubuntubhoy> then upload to the cloud or try and access it via a PC
[14:46] <ali1234> i just bought premium
[14:46] <ubuntubhoy> does it do cloud backup by default ?
[14:47] <ali1234> yes but you need premium to restore
[14:47] <ubuntubhoy> ahh - that's a handy way to get you to buy
[14:58] <ali1234> hmm even carbon cannot backup gta III and bard's tale properly
[14:58] <ali1234> because they download extra files after install
[14:58] <ali1234> it thinks those are part of the "data" and back them up
[14:58] <ali1234> unfortunately they are 2GB each
[15:00] <ubuntubhoy> they will be a problem
[15:01] <ubuntubhoy> try and pull them with adb ?
[15:01] <ali1234> i've backed them up to sdcard with carbon and now pulling them
[15:01] <ali1234> meanwhile it is also pushing the rest to my google drive
[15:03] <ali1234> hmmmmmm well i've got QMenuModel now
[15:03] <ali1234> now i lack Ubuntu Components? i thought that was part of the sdk?
[15:05] <ali1234> i think my system is now messed up because of the ppa change
[15:10] <thebishop> have any of the windows8 bybrid devices been unlocked for ubuntu?
[15:11] <thebishop> it would be awesome to see the ubuntu tablet UI work with even desktops/laptops sporting touchscreens
[15:11] <thebishop> but something like MS Surface especially seems well-suited to Ubuntu's approach
[15:15] <ubuntubhoy> I have an old netbook with a touch screen
[15:15] <ubuntubhoy> I would like to be able to install the UI
[15:15] <ubuntubhoy> over the desktop OS
[15:15] <ubuntubhoy> and have it hotswitch
[15:15] <ubuntubhoy> when I put the netbook in tablet mode
[15:15] <ptl> thebishop: there's some news of a surface tablet running ubuntu, yeah
[15:15] <ptl> today
[15:16] <ubuntubhoy> RT or pro ?
[15:16] <ptl> http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-the-surface-pro-20130211/
[15:16] <ptl> pro
[15:17] <SoulShadow> that sounds like a bad idea
[15:17] <ubuntubhoy> Ahh, that is standard Ubuntu though is it not
[15:18] <ubuntubhoy> not the Tablet UI
[15:18] <ptl> yes... it's x86
[15:19] <ubuntubhoy> he did ask about the UI
[15:19] <thebishop> yes indeer
[15:19] <thebishop> d
[15:19] <ubuntubhoy> thought someone had taken the XDA leak and already worked their magic
[15:22] <thebishop> do you think these new laptops with touch screens, but no swivel/yoga/detach feature can be useful?  i've got my eye on the Samsung Series 7 Chronos which has touch in a regular-old-laptop format.  not sure how i'd use it
[15:23] <ubuntubhoy> Right now it's poor in Linux
[15:23] <ubuntubhoy> but on Chromium OS and Win8 it works well
[15:23] <ubuntubhoy> really well
[15:24] <ubuntubhoy> I expect Linux to change though
[15:24] <ubuntubhoy> this tablet UI is just the start
[15:25] <seven> I am undoubtedly not the first persion to ask this but does anyone know the drop time of the ubuntu touch dev release
[15:26] <tgm4883> no
[15:26] <tgm4883> later
[15:26] <tgm4883> when it's ready
[15:26] <thebishop> seven, Nope, not yet
[15:27] <seven> Great, thanks
[15:27] <thebishop> are most of you flashing this to a nexus7, nexus10 or something else?
[15:27] <ali1234> no
[15:27] <popey> yes ☺
[15:28] <ali1234> i am attempting to run it in qmlscene on desktop
[15:28] <ali1234> apparently i need to build QMenuModel as it is binary
[15:30] <tgm4883> nexus 7, I won't be running this on my nexus 4
[15:31] <ubuntubhoy> N7 also
[15:32] <ubuntubhoy> But I will try the phone UI on my One X or HD2 if/when it gets ported
[15:37] <AaronMT> If anyone knows how to dual boot with Android; drop a link
[15:37] <r00t4rd3d> AaronMT, MultiROM
[15:38] <r00t4rd3d> N7 - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2011403
[15:40] <ubuntubhoy> so are we getting close to F5 bashing time ?
[15:41] <ali1234> anyone know where android sdk keeps it's version of qemu?
[15:41] <ali1234> ah it calls it "emulator-arm"
[15:42] <ptl> thebishop: to a nexus 7 and nexus 4
[15:42] <ubuntubhoy> hmm, the twitter account and G+ just started posting
[15:42] <ubuntubhoy> so must be soon-ish
[15:44] <ubuntubhoy> I am also guessing the image will download via an installer again
[15:48] <thebishop> nexus7 here.  kinda wish i had an n10 after seeing the first ubuntu tablet video
[15:49] <ptl> me too
[15:49] <ptl> I sensed it would be the same when they said the reference would be galaxy nexus
[15:49] <ptl> it's underpowered
[15:49] <thebishop> docking to a desktop UI is way more attractive on a 10" screen, and i'm guessing the split screen multitasking is a little cramped on 7"
[15:49] <ptl> so I waited some time and, voilà, they said nexus 4 would also sport the image
[15:50] <ptl> thebishop: not to count the small memory (1 GB)
[15:50] <thebishop> between nexus7 and nexus10, is the hardware gap that big?  I remember reading reviews of the N10 that said it only had average power for the price while the N7 was damn impressive for the price
[15:51] <ptl> no but it has 2 GB RAM
 <F5> <F5>
[15:53] <ptl> where will the tablet / phone download be announced?
[15:53] <ptl> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch ?
[15:53] <ubuntubhoy> home page
[15:53] <ubuntubhoy> ?
[15:53] <ptl> http://www.ubuntu.com ??
[15:54] <ubuntubhoy> yeah, or the tablet page
[15:54] <ubuntubhoy> and phone
[15:55] <ubuntubhoy> or sudo apt-get ubuntu-touch-installer ???
[15:57] <allu2> I read the ubuntu touch UI images for nexus 7 will be released today, any idea where they can be downloaded when the release happens?
[15:57] <ubuntubhoy> probably the Ubuntu home page will link to them
[16:00] <allu2> Ok, am i right if i expect there haven't been any publications on at what time the release happens?
[16:02] <chouchoune> Nexus : Camera, video decoding and audio output do not function. :(
[16:02] <chouchoune> Nexus 7 ^
[16:03] <ptl> audio output????
[16:03] <ptl> but it works currently
[16:03] <ptl> in Ubuntu for Nexus 7
[16:03] <ptl> how come it doesn't with the new flash image?
[16:04] <ubuntubhoy> do we have a link hyet ?
[16:04] <chouchoune> no idea, that's in the release notes
[16:04] <chouchoune> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
[16:04] <chouchoune> => Device Specific Issues
[16:04] <chouchoune> Nexus 7
[16:04] <chouchoune>     Runs in portrait mode by default. (no side stage)
[16:04] <chouchoune>     Camera, video decoding and audio output do not function.
[16:04] <chouchoune>     Greeter screen is misaligned.
[16:04] <chouchoune>     No multi-user login.
[16:05] <ubuntubhoy> hmm
[16:05] <ubuntubhoy> no wonder all the vids are N10
[16:05] <ali1234> i am surprised it supports GSM voice but not mobile data
[16:06] <ali1234> data is usually MUCH easier to get working
[16:06] <chouchoune> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[16:08] <tgm4883> lol    In rare circumstances, the Nexus4 may get into a state where it may not boot at all after the battery is drained ( even into recovery ). If this happens, the only way to restore it is to disassemble the back of the phone and unplug/plug the battery connector.
[16:08] <ali1234> tgm4883: this is all normal for development releases
[16:08] <tgm4883> ali1234, so?
[16:08] <kaleo> nice chouchoune  :)
[16:09] <doomlord> its out? anyone tried it?
[16:09] <r00t4rd3d> i tried to install it on my ipad and it gave me crabs.
[16:10] <ali1234> doomlord: yes its out
[16:10] <doomlord> (scrolling up, n7 - n10 ... big hardware difference i think; 3D benchmarks in particular are chalk and cheese)
[16:10] <ali1234> i like how it's a fork of cyanogenmod
[16:10] <doomlord> ok should i  buy n7 or n10
[16:11] <doomlord> i have a galaxy nexus
[16:11] <ali1234> doomlord: there is no point buying a device to run this, it is not usable
[16:11] <doomlord> heh ok tell it like it is :)
[16:11] <doomlord> what DOES work
[16:12] <ali1234> you can make phonecalls
[16:12] <ali1234> read the release note: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/ReleaseNotes
[16:12] <doomlord> does the ubuntu desktop work when 'docked'
[16:12] <ali1234> no that is a totally different project
[16:12] <doomlord> i mean that's this things reason for existing really
[16:13] <ali1234> no, that is a totally different project
[16:13] <doomlord> the fact its a true desktop underneath
[16:13] <doomlord> thats the unique feature not present in apple/android
[16:13] <ali1234> and it's a totally different project
[16:13] <ali1234> if you want ubuntu for android you have to buy a motorola atrix 2
[16:13] <doomlord> are you talking about ubuntu-arm instead of ubuntu-tablet
[16:14] <doomlord> right now i have a galaxy-nexus
[16:16] <tgm4883> ali1234, I think that was in the announcing video
[16:17] <kostkon> ali1234, high end ubuntu tablets will support desktop convergence
[16:17] <doomlord> does the straight ubuntu-arm desktop run on n10 or just n7
[16:18] <kostkon> doomlord, http://www.iloveubuntu.net/ubuntu-tablets-hardware-requirements-revealed
[16:20] <doomlord> heh so currently only x86 devices qualify as 'ubuntu enterprise tablet'
[16:21] <doomlord> and full desktop convergence wont be supported on n10 even
[16:21] <thebishop> "full desktop convergence: not supported" BOO
[16:21] <doomlord> yeah thats the reason for this existing
[16:21] <doomlord> (imo)
[16:21] <r00t4rd3d> why anyone would remove android for this is beyond me
[16:21] <thebishop> that's bizarre considering there's already an official nexus7 build of ubuntu which does have the full desktop
[16:21] <r00t4rd3d> canoncial will never be able to out do google
[16:21] <r00t4rd3d> never
[16:21] <doomlord> i would, for full desktop conversion
[16:21] <r00t4rd3d> ubuntu sucks
[16:21] <doomlord> i would, for full desktop convergance
[16:22] <doomlord> ubuntu is awesome
[16:22] <tgm4883> yea guys, this is terrible. It's almost like this is a developer preview or something
[16:22] <thebishop> tgm4883, :)
[16:22] <kostkon> tgm4883, it is
[16:22] <doomlord> ah sarcasm :)
[16:22] <tgm4883> kostkon, I think you missed the sarcasm there ;)
[16:22] <kostkon> :(
[16:22] <kostkon> damn
[16:23] <thebishop> tgm4883, this article sounds like the requirements are general, not specific to the developer preview
[16:23] <doomlord> i wouldn't expect ubuntu desktop on a phone to be as slick as on an i7 pc or anything... but Linux has always excelled at being workable on minimal hardware, eg using alternate lightweight desktop managers
[16:24] <doomlord> ARM should easily be able to handle a fluxbox environment for example
[16:24]  * tgm4883 notes the requirments say 2GB ram, yet the nexus 7 has 1GB ram
[16:24] <thebishop> true
[16:24] <thebishop> do we know that these requirements aren't just made-up?
[16:24] <doomlord> thats why i'm salivating at the prospect of 'full' linux on a phone/tablet
[16:25] <thebishop> doomlord, nexus7 already has a full-blown desktop version of Ubuntu.  it's been available for a few months.  there's even a slick gui installer
[16:25] <thebishop> unity and all
[16:25] <tgm4883> thebishop, have you used it?
[16:25] <thebishop> tgm4883, last time i used it it was pretty sluggish
[16:25] <doomlord> ok.. maybe i scratch the itch by getting an n7 to run that. but i would also like a n10
[16:26] <tgm4883> at UDS, it was more of a "wow, that is neat" rather than a "now that is something I can use"
[16:26] <thebishop> and trying to use touch with the regular desktop is just a non-starter.  but it was workable after i paired my bluetooth keyboard/mouse
[16:26] <thebishop> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Nexus7/Installation
[16:26] <tgm4883> doomlord, note that the n10 isn't considered a "high end tablet" by those specs
[16:26] <fyksen> Anybody done flashing?
[16:26] <doomlord> yes i note that
[16:26] <tgm4883> fyksen, I'm backing up my n7 first
[16:26] <tgm4883> +at work :(
[16:26] <doomlord> this is for ms surface pro perhaps
[16:26] <thebishop> tgm4883, yeah that was definitely my experience.  but I think that team was working on improving responsiveness.  i imagine that work went into the image we'll get today
[16:27] <fyksen> tgm4883, I'm going without backup
[16:27] <fyksen> The command "quantal-preinstalled-boot-armel+grouper.img: OK
[16:27] <fyksen> Pushing /home/fyksen/Nedlastinger/phablet-flash/95/quantal-preinstalled-phablet-armhf.zip to /sdcard/autodeploy.zip
[16:27] <fyksen> " Takes some time doh :/( :P
[16:27] <tgm4883> fyksen, well, I'm transfering some of my apps to my nexus4 (thank you carbon), then I can flash :)
[16:28] <fyksen> Haven't really used my n7 so much, and apps are one play store anyways : )
[16:28] <popey> my n7 is flashed ☺
[16:28] <fyksen> popey, that was fast
[16:28] <thebishop> popey, flashed with what?
[16:28] <ubuntubhoy> still downloading the image
[16:28] <popey> the image
[16:29] <doomlord> can an n7  drive external screen (MHL) ... i'm guessing that would be 1280x800 though
[16:29] <popey> nope
[16:29] <fyksen> Done flashing! :D Booting up now! Can't wait ;)
[16:29] <mhall119> 82% ......
[16:30] <thebishop> doomlord, i think you're miss informed there
[16:30] <ubuntubhoy> 3 partitions?
[16:30] <thebishop> doomlord, n7 doesn't have MHL
[16:30] <ubuntubhoy> pushing now
[16:30] <doomlord> ok thats why i say "can.."
[16:31] <thebishop> doomlord, ah yes
[16:31] <thebishop> whop[s
[16:31] <thebishop> nope, i haven't found any standard way of outputting n7 video to an external display
[16:31] <doomlord> a questionmark would have made it clearer i guess
[16:31] <ptl> it's released
[16:31] <thebishop> there's a project implementing a streaming technology similar to miracast, but it requires its own rom
[16:32] <thebishop> maybe somebody would work  on getting that supported in Ubuntu
[16:32] <doomlord> can you dual-boot ubuntu-arm/android
[16:32] <doomlord> on  n7
[16:33] <thebishop> doomlord, i haven't seen any way of doing that.  you definitely can't using the current n7 ubuntu build
[16:34] <thebishop> it might be technically possible but i've never heard of anyone doing it
[16:35] <fyksen> http://ubuntuone.com/7HH76AUdI9QUtmUs9i7LOd done! :D
[16:35] <ubuntubhoy> you can dualboot ubuntu and Android, so no reason why not
[16:35] <thebishop> ubuntubhoy, partitioning N7's internal storage?  All the dualboot solutions I've heard of use one OS on internal storage and another on MicroSD
[16:36] <thebishop> fyksen, looking nice where's the download?
[16:36] <doomlord> does n7 ubuntu pass touch events to applications (i realise few would actually use them)
[16:37] <mhall119> doomlord: I believe so, yes
[16:37] <thebishop> ubuntubhoy, you got any details on dual-boot solutions?
[16:37] <doomlord> i would be interested in reworking desktop apps to be touchfriendly, for my own use..
[16:37] <thebishop> doomlord, SDK is already available ;)
[16:37] <thebishop> Quickly
[16:38] <doomlord> i'd also be curious to see if they already have multitouch tweaks , i heard of 3-finger window drag. how abou 4 fingers for desktop-switching..
[16:39] <M4rtinK> thebishop: maybe checkout how Cyanogenmod works on the HP Touchpad ?
[16:39] <M4rtinK> Touchpad has no removable storage & I can boot between Web OS & Android just fine
[16:39] <mhall119> doomlord: use the Launcher button for workspace switching
[16:39] <SoulShadow> people use webos?
[16:40] <M4rtinK> I say "I can", not "I do" :)
[16:40] <SoulShadow> lol
[16:41] <doomlord> i think idea of 'more fingers moves more' works well on apple/desktop..  1 finger=cursor, 2 fingers scrolls a window, 3 fingers flips desktops... i think that would extend well..
[16:42] <mhall119> doomlord: 6 fingers?
[16:42] <SoulShadow> i don't think that would work very well on a tablet
[16:42] <ptl> these instructions are for android
[16:42] <ptl> how do I reflash if I have Ubuntu installed on the tablet?
[16:43] <doomlord> i suppose a tablet is more often used with thumbs
[16:43] <mhall119> popey: ^^
[16:43] <mhall119> any iea
[16:43] <mhall119> idea
[16:43] <thebishop> M4rtinK, HP Touchpad has its own bootloader
[16:43] <thebishop> http://code.google.com/p/moboot/
[16:43] <popey> just boot into ubuntu and run phablet-flash again
[16:43] <popey> it will reflash it
[16:43]  * popey has done this about 6 times today
[16:44] <mhall119> popey: even if it has the old desktop version on it?
[16:44] <popey> dunno, try it ☺
[16:44] <chouchoune> kaleo: are you the kaleo I think about ? (Evry stuff) ;)
[16:45] <mhall119> oh, oh, rebooting!
[16:45] <chouchoune> ok, got the answer with whois, yes ;)
[16:45] <doomlord> Does ubuntu-arm on N7 include some sort of Virtual-Mouse for pinpoint accuracy emulating a destkop
[16:47] <fyksen> Is there any way to close apps? :p
[16:48] <chouchoune> fyksen: reboot
[16:48] <chouchoune> ;)
[16:49] <fyksen> chouchoune, alleready done it a coupple of times :P hehe Very snappy before opening apps :)
[16:49] <fyksen> Really like the UI : )
[16:50] <tgm4883> I'm behind :( just now pushing to my nexus 7
[16:54] <chouchoune> fyksen: N10 ? N7 ?
[16:55] <ptl> popey: what do you mean? it does not respond to adb
[16:57] <popey> hmm
[16:57] <popey> I've not tried it tbh ptl
[16:57] <ali1234> ptl: if you look at source of phablet-flash you can see what it is doing with fastboot
[16:58] <ali1234> basically, http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/quantal/mwc-demo/
[16:58] <ali1234> get images for your device
[16:58] <ali1234> flash them with fastboot
[16:59] <ptl> ok
[16:59] <ali1234> ptl: it is structured like an android rom, because it basically is
[16:59] <ptl> thanks
[16:59] <ali1234> so you flash recovery, system, user, boot partitions
[16:59] <ali1234> you might need to do some other bits, so check the source of the tool
[17:01] <ali1234> i suspect if you have something like clockworkmod installed you can put those zipfiles on sdcard and install them that way
[17:02] <ptl> I an flashing the Nexus 4
[17:02] <ptl> I think I will flash the Nexus7 later
[17:02] <ptl> maybe I will reflash android just to use the friendly interface to flash ubuntu again
[17:03] <fyksen> chouchoune, n7 :)
[17:04] <ali1234> so have anyone booted it up yet? does it actually play cyanogenmod boot video?
[17:06] <tgm4883> ali1234, why would it play cyanogenmod boot video?
[17:07] <belak> Ah, it's out?
[17:07] <ali1234> tgm4883: because it's based on cyanogenmod, and the bootvideo is inside the images?
[17:07] <tgm4883> ali1234, ah
[17:08] <tgm4883> ali1234, no it doesn't play that video
[17:08] <tgm4883> at least, I didn't see it on my n7
[17:08] <ali1234> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-touch-preview/quantal/mwc-demo/quantal-preinstalled-armel+grouper.zip in /system/media/bootanimation.zip to be specific
[17:08] <kaleo> chouchoune: oui :)
[17:08] <belak> Are there any mirrors of the demo?
[17:11] <ali1234> i guess i am the only one pulling the source at this point?
[17:11] <ali1234> getting 1mbit from git://phablet.ubuntu.com/
[17:21] <ubuntubhoy> hmm, that's handy
[17:21] <ubuntubhoy> N7 wont boot and wont let me re-flash
[17:21] <ubuntubhoy> with the installer
[17:22] <ubuntubhoy> recovery works
[17:32] <ubuntubhoy> what partition does phablet get flashed to via fastboot ?
[17:32] <ubuntubhoy> userdata ?
[17:49] <rob_w> so do we have a toolchain to build proper kernels and a image ?
[18:09] <SoulShadow> soooo
[18:09] <SoulShadow> they're using yaffs2 instead of EXT?
[18:23] <ali1234> well it's gone very quiet in here
[18:24] <thebishop> i think this link should go in the topic: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/Install
[18:24] <thebishop> contains all the info/links people are looking for
[18:24] <ali1234> lol the other channel is mental
[18:24] <ali1234> i prefer it here
[18:25] <thebishop> ali1234, which channel?
[18:25] <ali1234> #ubuntu-phone
[18:25] <ali1234> see what i mean?
[18:30] <ubuntubhoy> here is better
[18:31] <ali1234> i tried running it in qemu earlier
[18:31] <ali1234> didn't work
[18:31] <ali1234> sig 11 on any graphical app
[18:31] <ali1234> probably because of crazy android stuff
[18:32] <ubuntubhoy> I quiet like it
[18:32] <ubuntubhoy> very unfinished
[18:32] <ubuntubhoy> but it's nice
[18:33] <ali1234> is there an apt database inside the image?
[18:34] <ubuntubhoy> not looked in anything yet
[18:34] <ubuntubhoy> at work
[18:34] <ubuntubhoy> so no real time
[18:35] <ali1234> deb http://ports.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-ports/ quantal main restricted universe multiverse
[18:35] <ali1234> appears to be the only repository
[18:35] <ali1234> btw, is the final release the same as the leaked version from earlier?
[18:36] <ali1234> hmm i can just check md5sum :)
[18:39] <ali1234> hah, but no apt inside root filesystem
[18:39] <ali1234> but we have dpkg
[18:50] <nexus7user> how do i update nex7? is there an update yet?
[18:50] <ali1234> nexus7user: try #ubuntu-phone
[18:54] <doomlord> how is ubuntu-tablet as a *developper environment*
[18:54] <doomlord> is it enough to use as a target to write tablet apps :)
[18:54] <doomlord> with native code .. c++... no Java or ObjC in the way..
[18:55] <ali1234> doomlord: the supported API is QML
[18:55] <ali1234> you can use C++ if you want
[18:56] <doomlord> can you use C++, openGL|ES for pure graphical applications (not necaserily platform specific UI) - like one can run on iOS, android-NDK
[19:18] <ubuntubhoy> as the whole lot is recovery flashable, why bother with the installer ?
[19:19] <doomlord> anyone posted any videos of their experiences with this yet
[19:20] <popey> 18:23:19 < ali1234> well it's gone very quiet in here
[19:20] <popey> everyone is in #ubuntu-phone tbh
[19:20] <ubuntubhoy> keep em there
[19:20] <popey> We'll merge the channels over the weekend when it quietens down
[19:23] <ubuntubhoy> And Paranoid android restored
[19:23] <ubuntubhoy> I like that I can just restore Ubuntu when I want to try it
[19:23] <ubuntubhoy> keeps things nice and easy and clean
[20:58] <belak> So, if it's possible to flash using just a recovery... how can I do that?
[21:07] <hourd> would it be possible to use something like multirom?
[22:08] <ptl> anyone had installed on Nexus 7 and tried to get root? I used adb root, then adb shell, then ubuntu_chroot but at the first attempt it fails, in the second attempt it hangs, with the same warning: nount: device or resource busy, then swapon: /data/ubuntu/SWAP.swap: Device or resource busy
[22:14] <robertjw> i just tried out the touch developer preview on the Nexus 7 and am having trouble with the browser.  Is there a known bug with entry of text in forms, or am I doing something wrong?
[22:20] <ptl> robertjw: were you able to install openssh?
[22:24] <ptl> ah... resolved
[22:47] <doomlord> any developpers previewing it yet?
[23:02] <ptl> doomlord: ?
[23:02] <ptl> doomlord: :
[23:07] <roasted> hello!
[23:07] <doomlord> just wondered, has anyone downloaded tried it out as a development target :)
[23:08] <roasted> sending 'system' (92311 KB)...
[23:08] <roasted> been there for quite a while :/
[23:10] <robertjw> i have it running on a nexus 7, but I'm still looking for a way to get to a terminal, anyone?
[23:11] <roasted> I don't have it running so don't hit me if this is a stupid suggestion - can you bring up a keyboard and do CTRL ALT T?
[23:12] <robertjw> roasted, the keyboard is very basic and does not have a CTRL key
[23:12] <roasted> the crap, I just got an error when transferring
[23:12] <roasted> it magically became disconnected from my system during the transfer. adb devices is empty now.
[23:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> what codecs does ubuntu tablet plan to have preinstalled
[23:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> or containers?
[23:14] <Akiva-Thinkpad> I am thinking that in development, should I just stick with Vorbis?
[23:16] <doomlord> hahah thats a good question - does ubuntu tablet have a terminal ?
[23:16] <roasted> riddle me this. When my Nexus 7 was booted to Android, I could pick it up via adb devices. I was in mid transfer of Ubuntu OS to my Nexus 7 over USB when it became disconnected somehow as it errored out. I ran adb devices, nothing. But of course now I can't get into Android since it's wiped... but when I was in Android is the only time I picked it up in adb...
[23:16] <k1l_> doomlord: i think it was in the standard apps mentioned
[23:16] <k1l_> the ones that get codec with the community
[23:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> doomlord: As far as I know, they are keeping it
[23:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> They would be foolish not to
[23:19] <Akiva-Thinkpad> all that would do is ostrocise linux users
[23:19] <doomlord> yes linux & ubuntu should keep a terminal wherever it it
[23:19] <doomlord> yes linux & ubuntu should keep a terminal wherever it i
[23:19] <doomlord> is^
[23:20] <GuidoPallemans> devs,  is there any way to save settings in a qml app?
[23:29] <M4rtinK> not directly
[23:29] <M4rtinK> either use a C++ type/plugin
[23:29] <M4rtinK> or there is some sqlite access directly from QML
[23:30] <M4rtinK> which is quite ugly IMHO
[23:31] <GuidoPallemans> there's a plugin from the qtquick side
[23:31] <GuidoPallemans> but they said that you could upload your app files to ubuntu one
[23:31] <GuidoPallemans> haven't seen that yet
[23:32] <k1l_> doomlord: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Touch/CoreApps?action=show&redirect=UbuntuPhone%2FCoreApps
[23:33] <k1l_> that are the standard apps that are getting build with the community.
[23:34] <GuidoPallemans> "with the community" = "with a small part of the community"
[23:36] <k1l_> "with the community who wants to and is able to"  iirc
[23:36] <robertjw> ok, terminal is in the list, but I'm not seeing a way to launch it
[23:37] <k1l_> i dont know if its included yet
[23:37] <GuidoPallemans> not included
[23:37] <GuidoPallemans> you might pull it from lp though
[23:38] <doomlord> would there be another IRC channel to discuss ubuntu-tablet-dev  , or are any of the existing ones fine for that
[23:38] <k1l_> this is fine
[23:38] <k1l_> if the breaking news is gone the channels will come back to regular dev work :)
[23:39] <GuidoPallemans> I hope so... man... I tried to ask a question...
[23:40] <doomlord> for C++ on ubuntu tablet... what "environment" does it get ... qt application?
[23:40] <ptl> it's not running X
[23:41] <ptl> what are you guys using for the graphics?
[23:41] <doomlord> i'm after raw GL|ES like android-NDK
[23:43] <robertjw> so, without a terminal how am I supposed to enable sshd?
[23:44] <GuidoPallemans> have you pulled the lp code yet?
[23:44] <robertjw> apparently not.  link?
[23:45] <k1l_> robertjw: posted it 12mins ago
[23:45] <GuidoPallemans> no that's to the wiki
[23:46] <k1l_> well, he can hangle through to lp from that link
[23:47] <robertjw> i'm not understanding what you are saying.  is there a terminal that can be installed?  or is there an alternate way to enable sshd?
[23:48] <GuidoPallemans> this is everything that they have yet: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-terminal-dev/ubuntu-terminal-app/trunk/view/head:/terminal.qml
[23:48] <GuidoPallemans> so... nothing, really
[23:59] <robertjw> aha, the tablet supports adb so you can get to a usb shell with 'adb shell',  that solves my problem